WEBVTT - Why Victoria's youth crime laws won't work 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.440 A week ago in the evening, the readA wait. It 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:05.960 was getting ready for a momentous occasion. 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:08.680 Because the following day in the afternoon, I would be 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:13.480 signing as an Assembly member Victoria, in fact Australia's first treaty. 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:16.800 The reader was a Yorda order and marrying jurywoman. She's 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:19.520 a member of the First People's Assembly of Victoria and 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:23.600 Treaty co Convena. She's also the CEO of the Victorian 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:26.840 Aboriginal Legal Service. That night, as she prepared for the 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:31.080 day ahead, her phone rang. It was Victoria's Attorney General 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:33.320 ringing to let her know that the government was set 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:36.159 to announce new laws that would allow children as young 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:39.560 as fourteen to be tried in adult courts and face 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:40.800 life sentences. 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:46.159 So it is a very unique circumstances which should be 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:51.440 advised that Victoria is going to proceed to lock up children, 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:56.720 some for life. When you are looking forward to something 0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:59.000 that was supposed to be transformative, that was supposed to 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.080 feel that Victoria was ushering in a new era, and 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.280 then to be somewhat slap in the face by rather 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.759 regressive action, it leaves you reeling. Daniel. 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:11.800 The proposal was rushed in the Cabinet with little warning. 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:14.840 Ministers were given just minutes to read it before the 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.839 meeting began. Only a year ago, Labor promised to raise 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:22.640 the age of criminal responsibility. Now in response to tablot 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:26.560 Ourt cry, it's taking a sharp turn, following Queensland and 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:30.800 adopting adult time for adult crime. If it goes ahead, 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:33.600 it means more First Nations children would be locked up 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:35.760 in Victoria than ever before. 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:39.240 Their lives are on the line. These are children that 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:44.440 won't receive any hope of a future. They're going to 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:47.520 spend the remainder of their childhood, Daniel, in a prison cell. 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:50.920 They're going to spend their early adulthood in a prison cell. 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.120 And as we know, the more you entrenched child in 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.800 the criminal legal system, the more often they are likely 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:58.760 to be caught up in a cycle of offending. 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:07.200 I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM today 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:11.000 Nriita wait on how the premier's new laws could devastate 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:14.120 vulnerable kids and what it says about the kind of 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:21.360 state Victoria is becoming in a time of treaty. This Tuesday, 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:29.639 November eight e Naurita, thank you so much for joining us. 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:33.320 Can you describe exactly what these new youth justice reforms 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:37.280 will allow and why you and the Victorian Aguinal Legal 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:39.520 Service see them as such a dangerous change. 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:41.600 Yeah, I mean, I think it's important to note that 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:48.040 these so called reforms were done without consultation with anyone 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:51.240 in the sector. This appears to have been dreamed up 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:55.160 by a cabinets of working group comprising of the Premier, 0:02:55.280 --> 0:03:00.119 the Attorney General, the Corrections Minister and the Minister for Police. 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:04.720 I today want to acknowledge, as Premiere that everyone of 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:08.200 these violent youth crimes has a victim, a family that 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:12.400 has had their life disrupted, a person that was shaken, 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:15.799 a person who was hurt, and we are all horrified 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:20.600 by these violent, brazen youth crimes and the devastating impact 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:22.560 they have on its victims. 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:26.360 What they've decided to do is that children aged fourteen 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.680 to seventeen years old found guilty of committing aggreda burglary, 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:32.720 of aggreta carjacking could be sent to a life in 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:36.200 prison that is literally equivalent to murder. 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:41.480 There are too many victims and not enough consequences. It's 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:47.000 why Victoria will introduce adult time for violent crime, where 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:51.000 the courts will treat children for these crimes like adults, 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:56.000 where jail will be more likely and sentences will be longer. 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:59.760 The government also planned to send children who allegedly commit 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.800 a fe including aggravated and an aggravated home invasion and carjacking, 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.080 to the county court rather than the Children's court, who 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:10.440 are the specialist when it comes to dealing with children. 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:14.880 Currently in the children's court, thirty four percent of children 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:19.480 and young people sentenced for aggravated home invasion or aggravated carjacking. 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:24.120 For those offenses, thirty four percent go to jail. When 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.919 those offenses are before the county court, the adult court, 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:30.119 ninety seven percent go to jail. 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.760 And this means that children are going to have a 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.600 very alienating experience within the court. They're going to be 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:40.520 seen by a judge who has no idea how to 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:44.440 interact with children, no idea about the complexities in which 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:49.480 these children are often suffering under other traumas, the neglect 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:53.200 often by the state in fact, but also often the 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:57.479 fact that these children are very very young, Daniel, these 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.240 are not people who are equivalent to an ad don't 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:05.000 making a decision, they have very low executive function, and 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:09.839 it's just absolutely horrific that we have decided that deprivation 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:13.240 of property is equal to costing someone their life. 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:16.599 So what do these laws mean for the children you 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:20.440 represent three, your legal service, and for the absoinal community 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:21.279 more broadly? 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:25.400 Yeah, I mean look, after hearing that news Tuesday night, 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:29.240 I went back and looked at our Blittano lou clients 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.160 and blatnall lose our specific option of children's legal service, 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:37.120 and these reforms Daniel will affect two thirds of our 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:42.880 clients two thirds. This for us is really difficult to 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:47.359 swallow because when we see these kids, we know that 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:51.160 they are young people with disability. They're young people who 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:53.640 have been coursively forced to engage in risk taking and 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:57.520 offending behaviors. Young people who are and whose families are 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.560 entrenched in poverty, young people who have often been removed 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.840 from their families care before. Therefore, and those who have 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:05.680 been found at the state at every step in their lives, 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:08.719 they don't have an anchor Daniel. Often enough, they be 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:12.359 moved from place to place. There's no consistency in their education, 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:16.520 no consistency in their supports, there is no stability for them, 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:19.960 and that's how they get caught up in these behaviors 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.560 and sometimes you know, Daniel's not people who are actively 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:26.200 participating in the crime. Sometimes they're just being coerced to 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:28.720 be a lookout. But they will still be charged if 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:32.280 they had done the carjacking themselves or the home invasion. 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:40.640 Right now, when this is in Victoria's history, the first 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:45.080 time that we've had such high imprisonment rates of Abiginal people, 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:48.400 we are only going to increase that trend. We're not 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.080 doing anything to detract from it. There is no investment 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:55.440 in early prevention diversion, there is no investment in alternative responses. 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:57.919 All Victoria knows how to do is be cruel and 0:06:57.960 --> 0:06:59.800 unforgiving and put people in jail. 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:06.359 Cell coming up how to stop violent crime without locking 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:17.240 up more kids, the government says this is about community 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.720 safety and making sure that there are serious consequences for 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:24.280 serious crimes. And it's coming in response to the fact 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:28.000 that in Victoria, youth crime is sparking. Crime is committed 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:31.880 by children are up by almost eighteen percent, and children 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:35.360 are overrepresented in serious and violent crimes like robbery and 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:39.800 aggravated burglaries and car theft. So what would a good 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.560 response to arise in youth crime look like. 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:47.720 And good response to youth crime is one that is holistic, 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:50.960 that takes a right space approach rather than a punity 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:55.640 of one. So that's prioritizing prevention, welfare, addressing the root 0:07:55.720 --> 0:08:00.200 causes of offending. It means making sure that children have 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:08.000 easy access to neurosycs, to social resu wellbeing care, to healthcare. 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:12.400 They have access to education, they have access to activities 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:17.080 and an ability to create healthy relationships because these are 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:22.720 also children Daniel who spent many years cycling through COVID 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.880 lockdowns and as part of their formative development didn't really 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:30.200 develop those healthy relationships or cohesive social networks. And in 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:32.920 terms of acknowledging that there is a problem, of course 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.800 there is Daniel, and this has happened in other countries. 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.760 You can see what happened in Scotland many years ago. 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:42.960 They were having similar problems and what they did instead 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:46.960 was treated as a public health issue, an input into 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:51.880 early prevention and diversion, input into holistic and integrated therapeutic 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:55.719 support because they understood wrapping around a child rather than 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:58.439 putting in a sulm throwing where the key was the answer. 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:03.720 You've played an integral role in negotiating Australia's first treaty. 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.720 I know it for a fact. What does this announcement 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:09.680 say to you about the government's preparedness to work seriously 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.040 with Aboriginal communities to address three causes of crime? 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:17.560 Look for me, it was incredibly difficult to sign that 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:23.160 treaty Wednesday night because the state had an opportunity here Daniel, 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:26.400 to act in good faith with the treaty. At an 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:30.200 earlier point, they could have decided to engage with the sector, 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:35.080 to engage with Aboriginal voices and experts, to implement long 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:39.040 term solutions to make sure that we will all be safe. Instead, 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.040 they chose to contradict early on the principles of the 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:49.439 treaty and take their own unforgiving and disastrous path. What 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.880 I will say is that I would hope that the 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:56.599 next First People's Assembly, which they'll take their positions on 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:00.600 the first of May twenty twenty six, will util all 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:04.240 of the powers and functions of all three arms of 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.959 the Going Wall to not only ensure that they are 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:13.320 taking our concerns and our kiosks to government, but that 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:17.280 we are holding them accountable for their poor decision making. 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:20.680 Given that can the Aboriginal community have any faith in 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:23.840 the government's commitment to treaty when it does something like this. 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:25.840 At the same time, can I say that I think 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:30.440 there's a difference between Aboriginal community having faith in their 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:36.800 own representatives utilizing the treaty to advocate and create transformational change, 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:42.320 as compared to them having faith that the Victorian government 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:45.520 will at all times out in accordance with the treaty. 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.160 If we believe that to be true in any instance, 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.079 then we wouldn't have created Ningma Nunya Wara as the 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:53.560 accountability mechanism. We wouldn't make sure that we had the 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:58.800 ability to represent in Cabinet, to engage with Parliament, to 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.319 press weighed them, to engage in the juty, to consult 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.080 to create these good outcomes. 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:09.280 And finally, Narita, what do you want Victorians to understand 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:12.400 about the kind of state we're becoming if these reforms 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:12.960 go ahead? 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:18.000 Yeah, I think to understand the state we're becoming, it's 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.280 good to take you to a specific example, and the 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:23.719 one that comes to mind for me is Lily. So. 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:28.600 Lily was charged with aggravated burglary and aggravated home invasion. 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:32.480 They were charged with these violent offenses despite only playing 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:36.080 a secondary role, so basically being a lookout Daniel. She 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.720 was particularly vulnerable, as many young children of contact with 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:43.680 the youth just system are for things like we mentioned earlier, disability, 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:47.440 mental health care protection. Our lawyers were able to strongly 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:50.080 advocate for her and to keep her out of youth's 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.880 detention and the charges were reduced. She then received a 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:57.680 sentence which didn't include spending the rest of her life 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:02.080 in prison, and baalistic legal and social supports were put 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.240 in place by Blitna Lou which meant that she was 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:08.120 diverted from the criminal legal system and Lily hasn't had 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:15.400 any further contact with the legal system. If Lily was 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:20.080 charged under these proposed new laws, her matter will be 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:23.240 heard in the county court, not the children's court, not 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.319 with the experts. She would then have been exposed to 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:30.280 an adult jurisdiction which lacks understanding and protective factors for children, 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:35.400 and also its sentencing is motivated by punishment not rehabilitation 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:38.320 like this within the children's court, and she would have 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.160 undoubtedly been subjected to further harms which come from the 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:47.079 imprisonment of children. That instance should show you that we 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:51.920 are on the path to not only being cruel and unforgiving, 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:56.160 but to ensuring that it is our children who pay 0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:01.240 for the state's mistakes. 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:04.559 Narita, thank you so much for speaking of this. 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:06.160 Not a problem, Daniel. 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.840 Also in the news, Donald Trump says Republicans should vote 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.480 to have the Epstein files released to the public, a 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:33.120 major reversal of position for the US president. Members of 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:35.000 Congress are set to vote this week and where the 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.160 files related to the convicted sex offender should be published. 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.440 The President had spent months trying to convince his colleagues 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:44.400 not to vote for their release, but as more Republicans 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.280 look set the break with his order, Trump reverse course, 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.200 saying it's time to move on from this Democrat hoax 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.160 and Susan Leezy will not lose focus on her role 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.440 for one minute, as Poland showed her ratings preferred Prime 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:00.840 Minister at just ten percent, compared with Anthony Benezi, who 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.160 was at forty percent. In the wake of scrapping that zero, 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:07.199 the Liberal Party has received its worst polling since federation, 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.720 with One Nation experiencing a surge to a record high 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:14.000 of eighteen percent. We'll have a foot report on the 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.040 rise of One Nation and what it means for the 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:20.840 country tomorrow. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am. Thanks 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:29.720 for listening.