1 00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:07,801 Speaker 1: Apote Production. 2 00:00:14,481 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 2: Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shann. I'm your host 3 00:00:16,601 --> 00:00:20,481 Speaker 2: Adam Shann. On Friday July twenty seven, nineteen seventy nine, 4 00:00:20,841 --> 00:00:24,041 Speaker 2: fifteen year old Kay Doherty and sixteen year old Tony 5 00:00:24,121 --> 00:00:28,321 Speaker 2: Kavanagh went missing from Warilla, a coastal suburb of Woollongong, 6 00:00:28,441 --> 00:00:29,361 Speaker 2: New South Wales. 7 00:00:30,041 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 3: Two teenage girls from the Illawarra region have been reported 8 00:00:33,481 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 3: missing after failing to return home on Friday evening. 9 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,201 Speaker 2: Kay told her parents she was going to Tony's house 10 00:00:40,241 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 2: to help babysit, and Tony told her family they were 11 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,201 Speaker 2: going to the movies with Kay's aunt and uncle. 12 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:48,201 Speaker 4: It's believed the girls were in. 13 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,401 Speaker 2: Fact on their way to the Wollongong CBD to attend 14 00:00:51,441 --> 00:00:54,201 Speaker 2: a disco, but it seems they never made it. 15 00:00:54,721 --> 00:00:57,641 Speaker 1: They were last seen near a bus stop in Warrilla. 16 00:00:58,601 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 2: The following week, Tony and Kay's families received separate letters 17 00:01:02,601 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 2: reportedly from the pair hosted from the k King's Cross 18 00:01:05,761 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 2: Darlinghurst area in Sydney. 19 00:01:08,081 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 3: The families of both missing girls so they have received 20 00:01:10,961 --> 00:01:14,961 Speaker 3: letters apparently written by their daughters, claiming they have gone 21 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 3: to Sydney and are. 22 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 2: Safe, despite the family's belief they had not written these letters, 23 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,801 Speaker 2: police seem to accept them as evidence the girls were 24 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,281 Speaker 2: not in danger. There have been no confirmed sightings of 25 00:01:27,321 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 2: the girls since they were seen at the bus stop 26 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 2: at dusk on the evening of Friday twenty seventh, although 27 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 2: there was an unconfirmed sighting in Queensland in nineteen eighty four. 28 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,281 Speaker 3: An unconfirmed sighting in Queensland last year briefly raised hopes, 29 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,561 Speaker 3: but neither girl has been located. 30 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 4: For eighteen months. 31 00:01:45,241 --> 00:01:49,401 Speaker 2: Police maintained Kay and Tony had simply run away, which 32 00:01:49,441 --> 00:01:53,801 Speaker 2: forced the families to conduct their own inquiries. This is 33 00:01:53,801 --> 00:01:56,521 Speaker 2: a story I hear over and over in these cold 34 00:01:56,561 --> 00:02:00,721 Speaker 2: cases where police dismissed these disappearances as just flighty girls 35 00:02:00,761 --> 00:02:04,561 Speaker 2: having fun who would come home eventually. The pain and 36 00:02:04,601 --> 00:02:09,361 Speaker 2: confused that has caused to so many families is just unbelievable. 37 00:02:09,961 --> 00:02:14,041 Speaker 2: That lazy, misogynistic attitude has allowed killers to get away 38 00:02:14,041 --> 00:02:16,441 Speaker 2: with murder time and time again. 39 00:02:17,041 --> 00:02:20,881 Speaker 3: In case after case, young women reported missing were labeled 40 00:02:21,001 --> 00:02:24,481 Speaker 3: runaways with little to no investigation conducted. 41 00:02:24,721 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 4: In the crucial first weeks. 42 00:02:27,721 --> 00:02:30,881 Speaker 2: Case, twin brother Kevin has been living this nightmare since 43 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:32,601 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine, and. 44 00:02:32,601 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 4: He joins me now good o keV. 45 00:02:35,921 --> 00:02:36,601 Speaker 1: Good adam. 46 00:02:36,841 --> 00:02:40,561 Speaker 2: Nice to talk here, absolute pleasure mate. It's been an 47 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,881 Speaker 2: unending nightmare for you. What's it been like for your 48 00:02:42,921 --> 00:02:44,761 Speaker 2: family living at all these years? 49 00:02:45,401 --> 00:02:48,401 Speaker 1: I guess exactly what you said, mate, it's virtually been 50 00:02:48,441 --> 00:02:51,481 Speaker 1: a nightmare. And I guess people don't walking our shoes 51 00:02:51,481 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: every day, probably don't understand what we go through. It 52 00:02:54,281 --> 00:02:57,641 Speaker 1: were you just recently connected with the Grimmer family. So 53 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:02,841 Speaker 1: many similarities with their case in our case, I guess 54 00:03:02,881 --> 00:03:06,561 Speaker 1: the worst thing is not knowing. You're always hanging onto 55 00:03:06,601 --> 00:03:09,481 Speaker 1: a bit of hope that something will change or something 56 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,721 Speaker 1: will happen. And in saying that, my mother and father 57 00:03:12,881 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: both went to an early grade because of this, and 58 00:03:17,361 --> 00:03:19,761 Speaker 1: it wasn't nice to watch this on my mother and father. 59 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,721 Speaker 2: You mentioned the Grimmer Faan that's Eryl Grimmer's family. She 60 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,361 Speaker 2: disappeared in nineteen seventy from Faerry Meadow Beach near Wollongong, 61 00:03:27,881 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 2: and her brother Ricky has worked tirelessly to keep their 62 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 2: case in the media. 63 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:34,201 Speaker 4: You've done the same thing. 64 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,241 Speaker 2: You've always been available, You've always been out there trying 65 00:03:37,281 --> 00:03:42,641 Speaker 2: to seek leads. But in both cases mistakes by the 66 00:03:42,681 --> 00:03:46,121 Speaker 2: police really counted in the early days and we can 67 00:03:46,201 --> 00:03:49,721 Speaker 2: say that this was the way things were done. I 68 00:03:49,761 --> 00:03:52,801 Speaker 2: don't think that's sufficient. I'm going to use the only 69 00:03:52,841 --> 00:03:55,521 Speaker 2: word that springs to mind right now. There was a 70 00:03:55,561 --> 00:03:59,041 Speaker 2: fuck up here, a lack of care, a lack of diligence, 71 00:03:59,321 --> 00:04:03,121 Speaker 2: which left your family can in the cost. 72 00:04:02,641 --> 00:04:04,761 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Mon I couldn't have said that better 73 00:04:04,921 --> 00:04:08,321 Speaker 1: was right exactly. And for many years we kept making 74 00:04:08,361 --> 00:04:11,241 Speaker 1: excuses for the police, you know, like they've got no time, 75 00:04:11,241 --> 00:04:13,441 Speaker 1: they've got no resources, they don't have the money to 76 00:04:13,481 --> 00:04:18,241 Speaker 1: put in a there's probably more important things happening at 77 00:04:18,361 --> 00:04:21,681 Speaker 1: the general time. And it just left at the stage, Adam, 78 00:04:21,681 --> 00:04:24,001 Speaker 1: where I'd had enough. And that's only probably when the 79 00:04:24,041 --> 00:04:25,961 Speaker 1: last couple of years. So we've been patient for over 80 00:04:26,041 --> 00:04:28,721 Speaker 1: forty forty four years, and it just got to the 81 00:04:28,721 --> 00:04:31,481 Speaker 1: stage where I no more excuses for the police. The 82 00:04:31,481 --> 00:04:33,561 Speaker 1: more I hear, the more I see, the more people 83 00:04:33,601 --> 00:04:36,361 Speaker 1: have talked to me, the more we realize how matilent 84 00:04:36,481 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: the police really were back in then days. 85 00:04:40,161 --> 00:04:44,441 Speaker 2: Take me through the early hours of the disappearance. Kay 86 00:04:44,601 --> 00:04:47,281 Speaker 2: was not an outgoing girl. She was a home girl. 87 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,041 Speaker 2: She was a student. She was afraid of the dark. 88 00:04:50,521 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 2: So tell me about that night. 89 00:04:53,481 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: So yes, mate, all of the above. That's so true. 90 00:04:56,361 --> 00:04:57,761 Speaker 1: There's a lot of things have been written over the 91 00:04:57,841 --> 00:05:01,081 Speaker 1: years that aren't really true or correct, but Mate, that's 92 00:05:01,081 --> 00:05:04,281 Speaker 1: so true. Kay twin system mine and you were inside out. 93 00:05:04,601 --> 00:05:07,281 Speaker 1: We've worked, We done everything together. We had our own 94 00:05:07,481 --> 00:05:11,001 Speaker 1: friends on the street, and even at nighttime. Her mum 95 00:05:11,001 --> 00:05:13,241 Speaker 1: always wanted us in the dark. We're always only just 96 00:05:13,281 --> 00:05:15,561 Speaker 1: playing out on the street, whether it be cricket or 97 00:05:15,601 --> 00:05:19,121 Speaker 1: hopscotch or whatever it was. Soon as it turned dark, 98 00:05:19,721 --> 00:05:22,561 Speaker 1: Mom didn't have to call us in. Kay was always 99 00:05:22,641 --> 00:05:25,801 Speaker 1: first to go inside. I still remember once Mom had 100 00:05:25,841 --> 00:05:28,081 Speaker 1: to go to the shop. She never left us alone. 101 00:05:28,481 --> 00:05:30,921 Speaker 1: One time she just had to sneak out. And this 102 00:05:31,161 --> 00:05:35,761 Speaker 1: was probably just on dark. And I remember Kay wasn't comfortable, 103 00:05:36,121 --> 00:05:39,281 Speaker 1: or fifteen years of age, and I remember she wasn't comfortable. 104 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,041 Speaker 1: But in saying that, on the day she actually disappeared 105 00:05:43,081 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: on the twenty seventh of July nineteen seventy nine, apparently 106 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: some girls at school were talking. I've spoke to some 107 00:05:50,801 --> 00:05:53,281 Speaker 1: of these girls, but I really need to get a 108 00:05:53,481 --> 00:05:56,161 Speaker 1: room together, and we can get all these girls together, 109 00:05:56,201 --> 00:05:57,881 Speaker 1: and we can nud it all out and come up 110 00:05:58,121 --> 00:06:01,561 Speaker 1: with exactly what happened. So what I what I see 111 00:06:01,561 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: has happened is is Tayy was coming home from school 112 00:06:05,281 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: a few friends if they wanted to go out. A 113 00:06:08,201 --> 00:06:11,601 Speaker 1: couple of her close friends said no, they weren't allowed 114 00:06:11,641 --> 00:06:14,241 Speaker 1: out currently. One of them had done it before with 115 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,961 Speaker 1: Tony and they'd been out and they were grounded. So 116 00:06:17,241 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: in saying that, as I walking through, I think it 117 00:06:20,561 --> 00:06:24,041 Speaker 1: was a paddic near our high school, Tony was working 118 00:06:24,081 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: with Kay and I did ask Kay does she want 119 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,161 Speaker 1: to help her babysit tonight? So there was no other 120 00:06:30,241 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: stories about going out. It was about coming to help 121 00:06:33,081 --> 00:06:36,201 Speaker 1: her babysit. Kaye had come home from school she asked 122 00:06:36,281 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: Mum could she go to Tony's and babysit? And Mum said, 123 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: who's Tony? So at the time, Cay and Tony weren't 124 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: that close, but I think Tony was in a group 125 00:06:45,361 --> 00:06:48,321 Speaker 1: of friends. Probably Kay wanted to be a little bit 126 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,921 Speaker 1: closer to they was more of a follower than a leader. 127 00:06:52,041 --> 00:06:55,321 Speaker 1: Tony was probably a leader. I don't like saying this, 128 00:06:55,401 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: but Tony was in my class at school and she 129 00:06:58,041 --> 00:07:00,481 Speaker 1: was very disruptive in the class. And I still remember 130 00:07:00,521 --> 00:07:03,841 Speaker 1: to this day the vision of teachers sort of having 131 00:07:03,841 --> 00:07:07,521 Speaker 1: to throw her out of the classroom, and that happened 132 00:07:07,521 --> 00:07:09,521 Speaker 1: on more than one occasion. So when Mom said to me, 133 00:07:10,041 --> 00:07:13,881 Speaker 1: Tony asked a cake of babysit and Mom said, no, 134 00:07:14,081 --> 00:07:16,921 Speaker 1: I don't know, Tony came in the room and just 135 00:07:16,961 --> 00:07:19,481 Speaker 1: started crying. And I thought it was a bit odd 136 00:07:19,481 --> 00:07:21,881 Speaker 1: that she'd asked to go to Tony's place. And I said, yeah, 137 00:07:21,881 --> 00:07:25,401 Speaker 1: I know Tony virtually, I know of a family. I 138 00:07:25,401 --> 00:07:27,681 Speaker 1: know all the girls to hang around. The girls are 139 00:07:27,681 --> 00:07:30,841 Speaker 1: pretty good. So Mom said what do you think and 140 00:07:30,881 --> 00:07:33,921 Speaker 1: I said, well, I've got to get a band practice. Shortly, 141 00:07:34,121 --> 00:07:37,001 Speaker 1: I said, if you want, I can I take her 142 00:07:37,081 --> 00:07:40,001 Speaker 1: up there on my pushbike which was only probably seven 143 00:07:40,041 --> 00:07:42,961 Speaker 1: minute pushboake ride. I said, I'll take her up on 144 00:07:43,041 --> 00:07:46,441 Speaker 1: my pushbike and Mom said can you pick her up 145 00:07:46,441 --> 00:07:49,241 Speaker 1: at nine o'clock? Because Mom and dad didn't drive at 146 00:07:49,241 --> 00:07:51,321 Speaker 1: the time, they said, can you pick her up at 147 00:07:51,361 --> 00:07:53,441 Speaker 1: nine pm? I said, yeah, of course I'll do that. 148 00:07:53,601 --> 00:07:55,961 Speaker 1: So yeah, I threw her on the bike. I took 149 00:07:56,001 --> 00:07:58,441 Speaker 1: her up to Tony's. I just dropped her off out 150 00:07:58,561 --> 00:08:02,321 Speaker 1: the front, virtually seen her walk in the door. From 151 00:08:02,361 --> 00:08:04,881 Speaker 1: that point, I went to band practice i'd come home 152 00:08:05,561 --> 00:08:09,001 Speaker 1: and Mom just said, can you go and get your sister. 153 00:08:09,201 --> 00:08:12,041 Speaker 1: So back on the pushbike, rode up to Tony's place 154 00:08:12,561 --> 00:08:14,361 Speaker 1: and she's probably only the first time I'd ever been 155 00:08:14,361 --> 00:08:18,201 Speaker 1: to Tony's place. When I arrived the step mom had 156 00:08:18,761 --> 00:08:22,041 Speaker 1: answered the door, and I still recall this to this day. 157 00:08:22,601 --> 00:08:27,321 Speaker 1: She didn't open the door totally up. She wasn't very inviting, 158 00:08:27,561 --> 00:08:30,241 Speaker 1: and she kept her short and sweet. I didn't think 159 00:08:30,321 --> 00:08:32,841 Speaker 1: much of it at the time, and I still really don't, 160 00:08:33,001 --> 00:08:38,121 Speaker 1: but insaying that she'd said, the girls have gone to 161 00:08:38,241 --> 00:08:41,641 Speaker 1: the movies, and she said with my uncle and Auntie 162 00:08:41,801 --> 00:08:44,801 Speaker 1: straight away, I'm thinking, my uncle and Auntie, that's not possible. 163 00:08:45,921 --> 00:08:49,161 Speaker 1: And that was about all the conversation was at that time. 164 00:08:49,561 --> 00:08:53,041 Speaker 1: So she'd actually shut the door. From there, I've got 165 00:08:53,081 --> 00:08:55,001 Speaker 1: back on my bike and I've head her down the street, 166 00:08:55,001 --> 00:08:57,361 Speaker 1: and I thought, I can't go home. I can't go 167 00:08:57,401 --> 00:09:01,481 Speaker 1: home until mum. CA's not there. For one, Mum would 168 00:09:01,481 --> 00:09:04,281 Speaker 1: have been devastated, and too, I was feeling a bit 169 00:09:04,321 --> 00:09:08,841 Speaker 1: of guilt because I sort of said, to Mom's that's 170 00:09:08,881 --> 00:09:12,841 Speaker 1: do this scenario. So I wrote down the saniturning left 171 00:09:13,081 --> 00:09:17,401 Speaker 1: heading home. I've turned right and there was netbore courts 172 00:09:17,441 --> 00:09:20,641 Speaker 1: there where kids would always frequent, so I just thought 173 00:09:20,641 --> 00:09:22,441 Speaker 1: I'd rite up there and just have a look around. 174 00:09:22,481 --> 00:09:24,321 Speaker 1: And I sat there and there's no one there. I 175 00:09:24,321 --> 00:09:28,841 Speaker 1: said there probably not real sure, Adam, But it seemed 176 00:09:28,881 --> 00:09:31,601 Speaker 1: like it was forever. But when I thought it was time, 177 00:09:31,761 --> 00:09:34,441 Speaker 1: I thought, I'm just gonna have to go home till mum. 178 00:09:34,561 --> 00:09:38,001 Speaker 1: So yeah, then the journey felt like it took forever 179 00:09:38,081 --> 00:09:39,881 Speaker 1: to get home, and I just wrote home, and from 180 00:09:39,881 --> 00:09:42,161 Speaker 1: there I just told Mom exactly what I've just told 181 00:09:42,161 --> 00:09:47,041 Speaker 1: you mine, man. Mum was absolutely devastated. She was the 182 00:09:47,041 --> 00:09:51,481 Speaker 1: most loving, caring mother anyone could ever wish for. Mate. 183 00:09:51,521 --> 00:09:53,881 Speaker 1: She still brings a tear in my eye when I 184 00:09:54,001 --> 00:09:57,761 Speaker 1: think of the life that she had. There was thrust 185 00:09:57,841 --> 00:10:00,361 Speaker 1: upon her. She didn't deserve it, Mate, No one deserves that, 186 00:10:00,401 --> 00:10:02,721 Speaker 1: to be honest with you. And from that point on, 187 00:10:03,281 --> 00:10:07,521 Speaker 1: Mom started ringing all Cay's friends. We only just got 188 00:10:07,521 --> 00:10:10,281 Speaker 1: the phone on around that came too. He started ringing 189 00:10:10,321 --> 00:10:13,801 Speaker 1: Kay's friends and their mothers and parents, and nobody knew 190 00:10:13,801 --> 00:10:17,041 Speaker 1: anything at the time. So once she'd made off a 191 00:10:17,081 --> 00:10:19,001 Speaker 1: phone call, she went to the police station. By that 192 00:10:19,041 --> 00:10:21,961 Speaker 1: time cle was been close to midnight, and that's what 193 00:10:22,121 --> 00:10:25,961 Speaker 1: she reported and listened to two officers. Mom said there 194 00:10:26,001 --> 00:10:28,681 Speaker 1: was a good cop, bad cop. One of them was good, 195 00:10:28,801 --> 00:10:32,801 Speaker 1: the other one just said straight away, they're runaways. Come 196 00:10:32,881 --> 00:10:35,721 Speaker 1: back in a couple of days. And my mum come 197 00:10:35,761 --> 00:10:38,561 Speaker 1: home and said to me, she said, I can't believe 198 00:10:38,841 --> 00:10:41,561 Speaker 1: this police officer said my daughters will run away. My 199 00:10:41,681 --> 00:10:46,481 Speaker 1: mom's only five foot Scotti Shahiti very quiet, kept to herself, 200 00:10:47,161 --> 00:10:49,121 Speaker 1: and she said, I felt like punching him in the base. 201 00:10:49,161 --> 00:10:51,201 Speaker 1: And for why Mom to say that, that's a really, 202 00:10:51,201 --> 00:10:54,201 Speaker 1: really big call. He's not a violent person. And David 203 00:10:54,321 --> 00:10:56,201 Speaker 1: was actually with Mom at the time. Why I'd stayed 204 00:10:56,201 --> 00:10:59,241 Speaker 1: home just in case she was coming home. So and 205 00:10:59,321 --> 00:11:01,441 Speaker 1: from there myte had just noboard. 206 00:11:03,281 --> 00:11:03,441 Speaker 4: Right. 207 00:11:03,561 --> 00:11:07,121 Speaker 2: What's really important to me is the fact that, as 208 00:11:07,161 --> 00:11:09,361 Speaker 2: you say, Kay was not an outgoing girl. 209 00:11:09,761 --> 00:11:10,801 Speaker 4: She was a home girl. 210 00:11:11,321 --> 00:11:14,281 Speaker 2: And she said to you that you should pick her 211 00:11:14,361 --> 00:11:18,761 Speaker 2: up at nine pm. And she's not one to mislead you. 212 00:11:19,241 --> 00:11:23,161 Speaker 2: So it seems like Tony may have persuaded her to 213 00:11:23,241 --> 00:11:26,681 Speaker 2: go somewhere, and it seems to be this dance that 214 00:11:26,801 --> 00:11:31,921 Speaker 2: was in the Woollongong CBD. What I find amazing is 215 00:11:31,961 --> 00:11:36,481 Speaker 2: the police never spoke to the patrons at that disco 216 00:11:37,001 --> 00:11:39,881 Speaker 2: to find out whether the girls actually made it. You're 217 00:11:39,961 --> 00:11:41,641 Speaker 2: talking about doing it now. 218 00:11:42,401 --> 00:11:45,201 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm talking about the girls that went to school 219 00:11:45,241 --> 00:11:48,121 Speaker 1: with Tony. They were in her close knit group, and 220 00:11:48,161 --> 00:11:50,481 Speaker 1: the couple of them had been I'm not sure I 221 00:11:50,681 --> 00:11:53,561 Speaker 1: was in town or to this disco before, but I 222 00:11:53,641 --> 00:11:55,681 Speaker 1: think a couple of them were asked to go on 223 00:11:55,761 --> 00:11:58,481 Speaker 1: that same night. So they're the ones I would like 224 00:11:58,561 --> 00:12:01,001 Speaker 1: to actually try and confirm a few things with. And 225 00:12:01,001 --> 00:12:03,281 Speaker 1: they're still around, they're still close. I still follow this 226 00:12:03,441 --> 00:12:04,601 Speaker 1: mode every day. 227 00:12:05,721 --> 00:12:08,441 Speaker 2: Because that's that's the most critical piece of evidence, because 228 00:12:08,481 --> 00:12:11,201 Speaker 2: what we're relying on here is just a siding at 229 00:12:11,201 --> 00:12:14,521 Speaker 2: the bus stop when we don't even really know whether 230 00:12:14,521 --> 00:12:17,401 Speaker 2: they got to the disco or not. And as I say, 231 00:12:17,401 --> 00:12:19,441 Speaker 2: the police didn't make the inquiries. 232 00:12:19,521 --> 00:12:20,161 Speaker 4: Is that correct? 233 00:12:20,841 --> 00:12:21,601 Speaker 1: Very correct? Mate? 234 00:12:22,521 --> 00:12:26,321 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just completely slack, even in the tone of 235 00:12:26,321 --> 00:12:30,001 Speaker 2: the times, it's completely slack. So you must have been 236 00:12:30,001 --> 00:12:33,201 Speaker 2: going out of your minds Oh. 237 00:12:32,881 --> 00:12:36,721 Speaker 1: Mate, I just watched my mom and dad naturally, I 238 00:12:36,721 --> 00:12:39,601 Speaker 1: think I've been a sibling and a twin. It affected 239 00:12:39,601 --> 00:12:42,641 Speaker 1: me a lot, but I felt part of me was missing. 240 00:12:42,641 --> 00:12:45,921 Speaker 1: But I think a parent would feel it more losing 241 00:12:45,961 --> 00:12:49,121 Speaker 1: a child or not knowing where their child is. So 242 00:12:50,121 --> 00:12:53,161 Speaker 1: Mum was mum. She didn't know where to go, where 243 00:12:53,201 --> 00:12:56,001 Speaker 1: to look. I know, for days she was calling all 244 00:12:56,041 --> 00:13:00,641 Speaker 1: these cult groups, charity groups like Salvation Army. She was 245 00:13:00,681 --> 00:13:03,921 Speaker 1: on the phone for days contacting these people to find 246 00:13:03,961 --> 00:13:07,041 Speaker 1: out if K had been there. And because they didn't drive, 247 00:13:07,401 --> 00:13:09,441 Speaker 1: we had friends offer to take Mom and Dad to 248 00:13:09,601 --> 00:13:13,681 Speaker 1: King's Cross, Balihurst, where the letter was. From day pounded 249 00:13:13,681 --> 00:13:16,641 Speaker 1: the streets made for weeks, putting signs up and putting 250 00:13:16,641 --> 00:13:20,481 Speaker 1: pictures up and talking to people going into sharp So mate, 251 00:13:20,721 --> 00:13:24,641 Speaker 1: just that alone, you could only imagine how that would 252 00:13:24,641 --> 00:13:26,161 Speaker 1: take its toll on parents. 253 00:13:27,681 --> 00:13:29,001 Speaker 4: Let's talk about this letter. 254 00:13:29,561 --> 00:13:32,721 Speaker 2: It's written on the thirtieth of July nineteen seventy nine, 255 00:13:33,481 --> 00:13:37,161 Speaker 2: and it says, dear Mum and Dad, I've gone away 256 00:13:37,481 --> 00:13:39,041 Speaker 2: with a few friends to Sydney. 257 00:13:39,961 --> 00:13:41,401 Speaker 4: I will be back in a week. 258 00:13:42,081 --> 00:13:48,721 Speaker 2: I am all right, spelled write incorrectly, so don't worry 259 00:13:48,721 --> 00:13:52,001 Speaker 2: about me. Love K lots of ex's ps. I love 260 00:13:52,041 --> 00:13:55,561 Speaker 2: you both very much. What did you think when that 261 00:13:55,641 --> 00:13:56,441 Speaker 2: letter turned up? 262 00:13:57,761 --> 00:14:01,601 Speaker 1: And that letter turned out straight away? I think Mum 263 00:14:01,601 --> 00:14:04,081 Speaker 1: and Dad am I So if we all had not 264 00:14:04,161 --> 00:14:08,241 Speaker 1: only shot despair. I think we're a little bit excited 265 00:14:08,281 --> 00:14:11,441 Speaker 1: to hear from her, which we thought we were doing. 266 00:14:12,081 --> 00:14:15,361 Speaker 1: It was like, oh, okay, and then it was a 267 00:14:15,361 --> 00:14:17,401 Speaker 1: matter of that's when mom and dad hit the road 268 00:14:17,441 --> 00:14:20,521 Speaker 1: and ended up in Sydney. But Mum was the first 269 00:14:20,521 --> 00:14:23,361 Speaker 1: one to pick it. My sister and my mom they 270 00:14:23,401 --> 00:14:26,801 Speaker 1: both write and Kay was left handed, so they both 271 00:14:26,841 --> 00:14:34,081 Speaker 1: write backhand. So one the writing wasn't in backhand. Two 272 00:14:34,321 --> 00:14:39,521 Speaker 1: that spelling mistake, dog, you said write My sister was 273 00:14:39,561 --> 00:14:42,001 Speaker 1: a lot better than me at school and even I 274 00:14:42,041 --> 00:14:44,081 Speaker 1: would have spelled that right. And Mom picked that up 275 00:14:44,121 --> 00:14:46,801 Speaker 1: straight away. She said, look, that's a spelling mistake. Okay, 276 00:14:46,841 --> 00:14:50,201 Speaker 1: will not have made. And we thought someone's wrapped this letter, 277 00:14:50,361 --> 00:14:54,121 Speaker 1: or she living writing out under dukeress, or someone's forcing 278 00:14:54,201 --> 00:14:56,481 Speaker 1: them to. So there was mixed feelings when we got 279 00:14:56,521 --> 00:14:57,561 Speaker 1: a letter, but it wasn't good. 280 00:14:58,521 --> 00:15:01,681 Speaker 2: So let's be clear, you guys didn't think it was 281 00:15:01,721 --> 00:15:07,601 Speaker 2: her handwriting, And did the police ask for any examples 282 00:15:07,641 --> 00:15:10,161 Speaker 2: of Ka's handwriting to compare with that letter. 283 00:15:10,801 --> 00:15:12,801 Speaker 1: We've got a long way back, Adam. But you know what, 284 00:15:13,521 --> 00:15:16,201 Speaker 1: I do have a schoolbook steal on my sister with 285 00:15:16,361 --> 00:15:19,801 Speaker 1: her handwriting, and you know what, to be honest, Adam, 286 00:15:19,841 --> 00:15:21,681 Speaker 1: whether they ask back in them days they dealt with 287 00:15:21,801 --> 00:15:25,361 Speaker 1: mum and dad. So I was just an extra back then. 288 00:15:25,441 --> 00:15:28,801 Speaker 1: But in saying that, I can't ever remember that they did. 289 00:15:29,721 --> 00:15:31,361 Speaker 1: I do know they come and got the letter and 290 00:15:31,401 --> 00:15:33,801 Speaker 1: they took it for forensic testing, and I think it 291 00:15:33,881 --> 00:15:37,281 Speaker 1: was sent to the USA for DNA testing. That was 292 00:15:37,321 --> 00:15:40,881 Speaker 1: one letter. The second letter. We the police come back, 293 00:15:40,961 --> 00:15:42,761 Speaker 1: knocked on our door and they handed one letter back 294 00:15:42,801 --> 00:15:44,801 Speaker 1: and said they'd lost the other one. 295 00:15:45,481 --> 00:15:46,681 Speaker 4: And what was the other letter? 296 00:15:47,601 --> 00:15:50,081 Speaker 1: The other letter? I have to pull it out, mate, 297 00:15:50,121 --> 00:15:53,441 Speaker 1: but what I would say is it said something similar 298 00:15:53,481 --> 00:15:56,601 Speaker 1: to my mom and dad, We're okay, the job has 299 00:15:56,721 --> 00:16:01,561 Speaker 1: fallen through. We will be back soon. That's not the 300 00:16:01,601 --> 00:16:03,961 Speaker 1: exact words, but I can find it for you if 301 00:16:04,001 --> 00:16:05,601 Speaker 1: I need to see. 302 00:16:05,641 --> 00:16:10,201 Speaker 2: I have seen reports where the police say this has 303 00:16:10,241 --> 00:16:13,281 Speaker 2: been forensically tested and it is her handwriting. So it's 304 00:16:13,321 --> 00:16:14,641 Speaker 2: been a confusion about. 305 00:16:14,361 --> 00:16:17,201 Speaker 1: This, yeah, big time. And that's where it all just 306 00:16:17,201 --> 00:16:21,161 Speaker 1: went wrong, mate. I don't know what their intentions were, 307 00:16:21,281 --> 00:16:23,601 Speaker 1: what they're thinking was. Is it just something they wanted 308 00:16:23,601 --> 00:16:26,321 Speaker 1: to get out of the way and dismiss it. I've 309 00:16:26,321 --> 00:16:30,121 Speaker 1: got no idea, mate, but yeah, they that was so 310 00:16:30,281 --> 00:16:30,801 Speaker 1: far wrong. 311 00:16:32,281 --> 00:16:36,681 Speaker 2: So the family's believing that she can come back any 312 00:16:36,761 --> 00:16:39,561 Speaker 2: time for some period of months, I guess was that 313 00:16:39,601 --> 00:16:42,241 Speaker 2: How was that you expected her to return? 314 00:16:42,961 --> 00:16:46,001 Speaker 1: Well, even though we didn't believe the letter, we still 315 00:16:46,241 --> 00:16:49,321 Speaker 1: had some hope that we would expect her to return 316 00:16:49,361 --> 00:16:52,721 Speaker 1: one day of course. Yeah, that was just natural instinct, 317 00:16:52,761 --> 00:16:54,241 Speaker 1: I think, mate, What. 318 00:16:54,321 --> 00:16:57,081 Speaker 2: Was the other family involved doing at this time? Were 319 00:16:57,081 --> 00:16:58,041 Speaker 2: you working together? 320 00:16:58,841 --> 00:17:01,841 Speaker 1: See that was a problem, mate. Not at any stage 321 00:17:01,921 --> 00:17:06,321 Speaker 1: did we ever work together. And like you said earlier, Mate, 322 00:17:06,321 --> 00:17:07,961 Speaker 1: I've had my head and the face on the media 323 00:17:08,121 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 1: for the last forty five years with this, Not that 324 00:17:11,561 --> 00:17:15,041 Speaker 1: I choose to, but as you said, when people come 325 00:17:15,120 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 1: calling in the media there, they're trying to help us. 326 00:17:17,681 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: They want to keep this case open, like yourself, you know, 327 00:17:20,041 --> 00:17:22,961 Speaker 1: they want they'd love us to get answers as families. 328 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: So there're actually no contact with that family made until 329 00:17:28,481 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: I was in a magazine and they didn't like what 330 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: I said and they just sent a little message on 331 00:17:34,561 --> 00:17:36,481 Speaker 1: I think it was on a Facebook messenger or something 332 00:17:36,481 --> 00:17:38,761 Speaker 1: back then, and that was probably the last contact we 333 00:17:38,801 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: ever had with them. 334 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 2: I just everyone processes the grief differently, and I'm not 335 00:17:45,681 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 2: going to hold any of thebody to account for what 336 00:17:47,481 --> 00:17:50,281 Speaker 2: they did or didn't do, but clearly it would have 337 00:17:50,321 --> 00:17:54,241 Speaker 2: been better had the two families had a united front. 338 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: They say we're stronger in numbers, aren't they? So I 339 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,161 Speaker 1: agree one hundred percent. My name Mum reached out several times. 340 00:18:03,681 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: Dad actually mister frequent the local hotel, and Tony's dad 341 00:18:08,681 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: was also a local who would frequent the hotel, and 342 00:18:12,241 --> 00:18:15,921 Speaker 1: I know both of them as rudy staunch man from 343 00:18:16,001 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: old school. It's something they never spoke about much. They 344 00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:24,561 Speaker 1: would cross paths occasionally, but it's something they couldn't bring 345 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,681 Speaker 1: themselves to talk about because as a father, I guess 346 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,761 Speaker 1: they felt a lot of guilt too that they couldn't 347 00:18:29,801 --> 00:18:32,360 Speaker 1: protect their daughters. I just remember someone saying in the 348 00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: pub one either dad, who was in tears telling the story, 349 00:18:35,721 --> 00:18:37,041 Speaker 1: and I thought it was the first time I've ever 350 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: heard my dad cry, virtually first time I've ever heard 351 00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:41,201 Speaker 1: him talk about it. 352 00:18:42,761 --> 00:18:45,281 Speaker 2: So it became something that your dad couldn't deal with, 353 00:18:45,321 --> 00:18:52,360 Speaker 2: and so he dealt with it by burying it effectively. Yes, mate, 354 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,561 Speaker 2: And how did that affect your relationship with him? 355 00:18:57,201 --> 00:18:59,761 Speaker 1: When I look back at it now, Adam, I think 356 00:19:00,801 --> 00:19:04,721 Speaker 1: it brought my mum and myself closer. We had a 357 00:19:05,241 --> 00:19:07,361 Speaker 1: bond made it was unbreakable wand that I've been her 358 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: care for the last twenty years of her life. So 359 00:19:09,801 --> 00:19:13,961 Speaker 1: I put everything on hold, a marriage, a relationship, a house, everything, 360 00:19:14,201 --> 00:19:18,281 Speaker 1: my employment. With Dad, it was pretty hard to talk 361 00:19:18,321 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: about with him. He wasn't brought up off and with him. 362 00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: He'd come home after a few years and it was 363 00:19:24,681 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 1: like I just didn't understand because I was young. I 364 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,001 Speaker 1: didn't understand why he would go out drinking like that. 365 00:19:31,961 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: So it's hard to say, mate, But we weren't separated, 366 00:19:38,041 --> 00:19:39,881 Speaker 1: we weren't as close to order as I would have 367 00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:42,561 Speaker 1: liked to have been. But I know he was holding 368 00:19:42,681 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 1: a lot of guilt in there, mate, and he didn't 369 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,441 Speaker 1: want to open up. And I don't think he wanted 370 00:19:46,481 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 1: to bother me with it either. That's why my currents 371 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: were right. 372 00:19:50,681 --> 00:19:53,001 Speaker 4: Why was he feeling guilty. 373 00:19:53,281 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: I think it's been the father of the house. I 374 00:19:55,201 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 1: think been the head of the house. I think in 375 00:19:57,521 --> 00:20:00,961 Speaker 1: m Day's fathers had a I think they had a responsibility. 376 00:20:01,041 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: Some took it, some didn't. I just think and this 377 00:20:05,041 --> 00:20:07,441 Speaker 1: easing to let k go was made without him because 378 00:20:07,481 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: he wasn't here at the time. He would have been 379 00:20:09,681 --> 00:20:13,321 Speaker 1: up at the local. So I think there's probably probably 380 00:20:13,321 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: some things I can't even answer there, mate, that I 381 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: think there's a there's a few reasons. 382 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was certainly a very destructive force in 383 00:20:21,761 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 2: your family. Guilt, shame, second guessing, a bit of blame, 384 00:20:26,721 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 2: going back and forth. 385 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,281 Speaker 1: Maybe mate, I couldn't have said it any better. Yeah, 386 00:20:31,321 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: that's exactly what it was, mate, So many mixed emotions, 387 00:20:34,521 --> 00:20:37,561 Speaker 1: mixed feelings at so many different times there was It 388 00:20:37,681 --> 00:20:39,561 Speaker 1: was a roller custom, mate, and it still is, to 389 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: be honest with you. 390 00:20:41,201 --> 00:20:47,481 Speaker 2: Yeah, And occasionally news comes out there's a potential sighting 391 00:20:47,481 --> 00:20:50,281 Speaker 2: in Queensland, there's one in Cans I believe. 392 00:20:52,041 --> 00:20:54,561 Speaker 4: How was that when those sightings did come up? 393 00:20:55,801 --> 00:20:58,321 Speaker 1: Hey it She can only have hope, can't You can 394 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 1: only think, oh, right, someone's seen that. She's still around, 395 00:21:00,961 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: She's still alive. At that time, you probably put everything 396 00:21:05,241 --> 00:21:09,401 Speaker 1: else aside. Why did she go? She should never have went, 397 00:21:10,001 --> 00:21:13,801 Speaker 1: She shouldn't have been out at night. You can if 398 00:21:13,801 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: she come home, she'd probably get ponies for longer, you know, 399 00:21:16,041 --> 00:21:21,281 Speaker 1: from doing the wrong thing. So mate, Sorry, I'm just 400 00:21:21,281 --> 00:21:25,521 Speaker 1: going to take a breath of mine, mixed, so many 401 00:21:25,561 --> 00:21:28,041 Speaker 1: mixed emotions, mate. 402 00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:30,360 Speaker 2: I'm sure, and it doesn't get any easier. This is 403 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,001 Speaker 2: now forty six years later. It still cuts deep, I'm sure, 404 00:21:34,201 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 2: And I think the mistakes, the lack of follow through, 405 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,001 Speaker 2: just the doubt that you must have suffered, and even 406 00:21:41,041 --> 00:21:43,761 Speaker 2: to get some sort of determination, like in twenty thirteen, 407 00:21:44,561 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 2: the coroner found that both girls were probably dead. 408 00:21:49,761 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 4: How did that sit with you? 409 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,801 Speaker 2: Because I know the families are missing, person's always hold 410 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,721 Speaker 2: that little sliver of belief and hope that their loved 411 00:21:56,761 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 2: ones might walk up the driveway. And to hear the 412 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 2: coroners say that he believed that they were both deceased, 413 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:04,681 Speaker 2: that must have been a terrible moment. 414 00:22:04,521 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: Too made to be honest with that. The first we 415 00:22:08,041 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: had heard to detective or police was in two thousand 416 00:22:12,441 --> 00:22:17,321 Speaker 1: and nine, and at that point of time it went 417 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 1: to a coronial inquest in two thousand and nine. So 418 00:22:20,681 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: we've been to two in quests. First one was two 419 00:22:23,041 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: thousand and nine. Sevende was twenty thirteen. In two thousand 420 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: and nine, I could see when they were trying to 421 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: close the case, and I didn't know much about anything 422 00:22:32,561 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: at the time, in the way how they operate. First 423 00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: time I've ever been in the courtroom, to be honest 424 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: with you, and my mum. So after they presented a 425 00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: lot of evidents from the detectives and that, they said, 426 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,360 Speaker 1: did I have anything to say? So I spoke for mom. 427 00:22:47,521 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 1: Mum wasn't she wasn't capablars speaking of that time. She 428 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: was literally still broken hearted. So I just sat up 429 00:22:54,281 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 1: and I just kept a symbol and I said, look, 430 00:22:55,921 --> 00:22:59,321 Speaker 1: we appreciate what the police have done recently. And I said, 431 00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:02,721 Speaker 1: to be honest with you, there's no evidence, there's nobodies. 432 00:23:03,801 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: How can you close this case us? So that's what 433 00:23:07,281 --> 00:23:09,801 Speaker 1: happened in two thousand and nine. Must that a really 434 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: good judge because they left it open at the time. 435 00:23:12,281 --> 00:23:16,041 Speaker 1: Then we come back to twenty thirty, repeating the whole 436 00:23:16,041 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: scenario again, back into court. This time the police had 437 00:23:20,921 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: done probably more investigations, but for him to say the 438 00:23:26,001 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: girls they're dead, they're not alive anymore. Again, I had 439 00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 1: just said, how can you prove this is this? Because 440 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,801 Speaker 1: you just want to close the case, And they said, listen, 441 00:23:37,801 --> 00:23:40,241 Speaker 1: we won't close the case. It'll be an open finding. 442 00:23:40,321 --> 00:23:42,001 Speaker 1: And I guess you'd know more than me about that. 443 00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:44,801 Speaker 1: I didn't know much of the time. Naturally an open 444 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 1: finding years, they would put it on the archives and 445 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,881 Speaker 1: I guess this how was working. If they got any 446 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,561 Speaker 1: information or any leads, they would open it back up 447 00:23:54,561 --> 00:23:57,201 Speaker 1: and they would examine it. And I can tell you now, mate, 448 00:23:57,241 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: over the years, I've had so many people contact me, 449 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 1: whether it's through a letter, Facebook, or phone or text 450 00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:10,241 Speaker 1: messages or whatever saying how they contact crime subbers. They'd 451 00:24:10,521 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: call the detectees or email the detectives that were on 452 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:18,001 Speaker 1: the case, and never once did these are different range 453 00:24:18,041 --> 00:24:22,801 Speaker 1: and source of people from all areas, they got no response. 454 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's very poor. 455 00:24:25,241 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 2: And the Curenter has been critical of New South Wales 456 00:24:28,281 --> 00:24:31,481 Speaker 2: Police on several occasions in terms of these missing persons 457 00:24:31,521 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 2: cases and I think your sister's case is exactly the 458 00:24:34,761 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 2: same thing. And I guess this is why we're looking 459 00:24:37,201 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 2: now to Jeremy Buckingham, the New South Wales politician, to 460 00:24:41,721 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 2: really press this issue in the Parliament with this inquiry 461 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 2: that's going to be held out of the gate Briarld 462 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 2: next year. And I believe you've had a role to 463 00:24:50,961 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 2: play in making that happen. 464 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:58,681 Speaker 1: Yeah. Again, that wasn't by choice, was probably more by 465 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,001 Speaker 1: coincidence than anything else. I was a member of the 466 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:07,721 Speaker 1: recently formed Center for Missing Person Sport MP. I went 467 00:25:07,801 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: to a function they had in Sydney Ransom. From that 468 00:25:10,761 --> 00:25:13,841 Speaker 1: point on we sort of all told our stories and 469 00:25:14,481 --> 00:25:16,481 Speaker 1: they asked me if probably the part of their committee. 470 00:25:16,521 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 1: So I was so insaying that they had spoke to 471 00:25:20,721 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: Parliament already, some of the people on the committee, and 472 00:25:24,561 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 1: they got to have a meeting in you said, Well's Parliament. 473 00:25:29,481 --> 00:25:31,761 Speaker 1: So we were waiting downstairs in Parliament. About five of 474 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 1: the parliamentary people have walked in and Jeremy Buckingham was 475 00:25:36,201 --> 00:25:39,761 Speaker 1: one of them. So at this time we're all just meetings, standing, 476 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,561 Speaker 1: taking photos, little chat before we went up to the gallery. 477 00:25:44,041 --> 00:25:48,801 Speaker 1: They won a parliamentary inquiry into missing persons, so it 478 00:25:48,961 --> 00:25:51,281 Speaker 1: changed a little bit from the first day we got there. 479 00:25:51,321 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: But in saying that Jeremy Buckingham introduced himself to me, 480 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,561 Speaker 1: was probably about fifteen sixteen people there. He introduced himself 481 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,881 Speaker 1: to me and just said how he knew me and 482 00:26:04,201 --> 00:26:07,841 Speaker 1: he had a my sister on his war in his office, 483 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: and I thought to be honest, Adam the hairs on 484 00:26:10,721 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 1: the back of my neck just stood up and I thought, 485 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,481 Speaker 1: politician I've never met, and he's got a photo of 486 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,081 Speaker 1: my sister. Then he explained in detail how he's been 487 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,321 Speaker 1: following over my lap for us I think ten years. 488 00:26:22,961 --> 00:26:25,041 Speaker 1: So from that point on he said to me, Kevin, 489 00:26:25,041 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: can we exchange numbers? And he said, we need to 490 00:26:27,921 --> 00:26:31,041 Speaker 1: talk more. From that point on, I said great. We 491 00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 1: went up into the gallery where they put the motion 492 00:26:33,521 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 1: on the floor about the inquiry. Nearly every political party 493 00:26:39,281 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 1: spoke for us, and we're really interested in it is 494 00:26:43,001 --> 00:26:45,281 Speaker 1: scept one person from the Labor party to be honest 495 00:26:45,281 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: with you, and I'll vote Labor all my life. So 496 00:26:48,321 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: insaying that, I was devastated what she was saying, because 497 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:52,961 Speaker 1: she was she couldn't have been further from the troop 498 00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:55,761 Speaker 1: or she was talking about. Was the police, the police, 499 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: the police, police. It wasn't all about the police, and 500 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,400 Speaker 1: it wasn't about us bagging the police at that point 501 00:27:00,441 --> 00:27:03,241 Speaker 1: of time. So I when saying that that that inquiry 502 00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: was passed. So the next step was Jeremy had contacted me. 503 00:27:08,001 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: We've been through a light. He'd come down to Wollongong. 504 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: We've done a bit of a forum for me, some 505 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 1: persons in the mall there just for other people, not 506 00:27:16,041 --> 00:27:21,641 Speaker 1: just for myself. From there, Jeremy had organized to meet 507 00:27:21,681 --> 00:27:24,761 Speaker 1: the new Subwlasst Premier, Chris Mins. Jeremy's called me and 508 00:27:24,801 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: said Chris Mins is asked to speak to one of 509 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: the family members and he wanted to speak to me 510 00:27:28,681 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: because I'd probably been in parliament a few weeks before it. 511 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:37,041 Speaker 1: And when he said that, I thought, wow, I was 512 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: not only shocked, I was funded a surprise. I was excited. 513 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: I thought this could be our only chance. So in 514 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,281 Speaker 1: saying that, we've actually went up to the parliament got 515 00:27:47,321 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: in to see Chris Mins. When just before we met him, 516 00:27:50,761 --> 00:27:54,881 Speaker 1: they said you've got fifteen minutes with him, and I thought, jeez, 517 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,561 Speaker 1: this is going to be hard. So I was going 518 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: to just talk to him in general. But days before that, 519 00:28:01,281 --> 00:28:04,281 Speaker 1: I thought this doesn't happen very often, this might not 520 00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:07,400 Speaker 1: happen again. This could be our last chance. So I 521 00:28:07,561 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 1: just sat down for a few days and write an 522 00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: impact statement, just come from the heart, come straight from me, 523 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: and include some other missing person as at end of 524 00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 1: Groomer case in that too. So when you sat down, 525 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 1: come Alongsidy Shore, I said look, I've wrote an impact statement. 526 00:28:21,201 --> 00:28:24,201 Speaker 1: I said, for me, this is very brief, and I said, 527 00:28:24,201 --> 00:28:26,481 Speaker 1: for you is this could drag on a little bit, 528 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,481 Speaker 1: but if I'm getting my story in Chriss, I think 529 00:28:30,521 --> 00:28:33,001 Speaker 1: everyone can understand it a little bit better. Straight away, 530 00:28:33,041 --> 00:28:36,801 Speaker 1: he said, Kevin, this is a premier. He said, Kevin, 531 00:28:37,441 --> 00:28:41,801 Speaker 1: take your time. There's no time limit on this. Straight away. 532 00:28:41,881 --> 00:28:44,601 Speaker 1: He made me feel comfortable by the way. I thought 533 00:28:44,921 --> 00:28:48,441 Speaker 1: he's got a genuine interest. Not only I think got 534 00:28:48,441 --> 00:28:51,401 Speaker 1: a genuine interest. I think he's a really genuine man. 535 00:28:51,481 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: And I don't talk highly of politicians like that because 536 00:28:54,681 --> 00:28:57,321 Speaker 1: in my impact statement, with everything else I'd said in there, 537 00:28:57,641 --> 00:29:02,041 Speaker 1: I also said sometimes I feel politicians are like car salespeople. 538 00:29:02,161 --> 00:29:04,801 Speaker 1: I said, but we can change all world, hopefully hopefully 539 00:29:04,801 --> 00:29:06,401 Speaker 1: someone going to listen to us. And I said, we 540 00:29:06,401 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: can probably change a lot of things around Australia the 541 00:29:08,481 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: way they've handled things in the past, probably how they 542 00:29:11,241 --> 00:29:14,201 Speaker 1: can do things a little bit better. That's probably where 543 00:29:14,201 --> 00:29:16,761 Speaker 1: I'm not an expert on. From that point on, we 544 00:29:16,801 --> 00:29:21,121 Speaker 1: went into Jeremy Buckingham's office upstairs and you've probably seen 545 00:29:21,161 --> 00:29:24,881 Speaker 1: this before. I guess he's got a map of the 546 00:29:24,921 --> 00:29:28,561 Speaker 1: East coast. He's got different colored pins where Ivan malap 547 00:29:28,921 --> 00:29:32,481 Speaker 1: had been or worked, and he had another colored pin, 548 00:29:32,641 --> 00:29:36,041 Speaker 1: maybe a green one. I think it was everywhere he'd 549 00:29:36,081 --> 00:29:40,361 Speaker 1: been in work someone had gone missing. So he was 550 00:29:40,401 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: full with this and I was shocked as had him 551 00:29:42,681 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: be honest with you. 552 00:29:45,601 --> 00:29:50,001 Speaker 2: Yeah, this inquiry is fast becoming not just to look 553 00:29:50,041 --> 00:29:54,761 Speaker 2: at the unsolved murders and disappearances, but an inquiry into 554 00:29:54,841 --> 00:29:59,841 Speaker 2: Ivan Malatt. And the other point to bear in mind 555 00:29:59,961 --> 00:30:03,321 Speaker 2: is that we talk about him killing backpackers. Most of 556 00:30:03,321 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 2: his victims were picked up in the day Darlinghurst, King's 557 00:30:06,241 --> 00:30:06,921 Speaker 2: Cross area. 558 00:30:06,921 --> 00:30:08,641 Speaker 4: I'm sure you're aware of that. 559 00:30:08,641 --> 00:30:10,561 Speaker 1: That's what Jeremy told me. I didn't know that at 560 00:30:10,601 --> 00:30:11,001 Speaker 1: the time. 561 00:30:11,681 --> 00:30:11,841 Speaker 4: Yeah. 562 00:30:11,921 --> 00:30:16,521 Speaker 2: That also means that those letters written from Darlingis, if 563 00:30:16,521 --> 00:30:19,641 Speaker 2: indeed they were even kay an Tony or just Ka, 564 00:30:20,241 --> 00:30:23,801 Speaker 2: then they could well have been written under jures and 565 00:30:23,881 --> 00:30:27,801 Speaker 2: maybe with some little clues a little like the misspelling 566 00:30:28,481 --> 00:30:31,441 Speaker 2: in there, might have been deliberate. I think it's high 567 00:30:31,481 --> 00:30:34,641 Speaker 2: time that this had a public airing and the people 568 00:30:34,641 --> 00:30:39,281 Speaker 2: of New South Wales got to understand how much your 569 00:30:39,321 --> 00:30:42,801 Speaker 2: family has suffered and the failure of police to do 570 00:30:42,841 --> 00:30:44,841 Speaker 2: the most basic things here. 571 00:30:45,401 --> 00:30:48,521 Speaker 4: How much. Are you looking forward to this inquiry again? 572 00:30:48,961 --> 00:30:51,681 Speaker 1: Mixed emotions, mate. What I think about it is probably 573 00:30:51,681 --> 00:30:54,121 Speaker 1: a little bit stressful thinking that I'm going to have 574 00:30:54,121 --> 00:30:57,801 Speaker 1: to go through this all again, but on a larger scale. 575 00:30:58,481 --> 00:31:01,161 Speaker 1: But I'm thinking this is an opportunity is not going 576 00:31:01,201 --> 00:31:04,161 Speaker 1: to come up again. So I'm going to take this 577 00:31:04,361 --> 00:31:08,561 Speaker 1: with arms, mate, and I'm for stemheavy with this, and 578 00:31:09,401 --> 00:31:12,441 Speaker 1: I am excited. But to be honest, Adam, every time 579 00:31:12,481 --> 00:31:14,961 Speaker 1: something like this happens, it doesn't matter what level or 580 00:31:14,961 --> 00:31:18,361 Speaker 1: what scale. I've heard a lot of disappointment in the 581 00:31:18,401 --> 00:31:21,561 Speaker 1: past as our parents, So I try not to get 582 00:31:21,561 --> 00:31:24,041 Speaker 1: over excited, mate, I try not to build myself up 583 00:31:24,081 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: to set myself up for disappointment. So I'm going in 584 00:31:27,521 --> 00:31:32,441 Speaker 1: there with an open mind. Mate. I am, I'm nervous, 585 00:31:32,441 --> 00:31:35,281 Speaker 1: but I'm I'm seriously looking forward to it. 586 00:31:36,321 --> 00:31:37,361 Speaker 4: Yeah, you should be. 587 00:31:37,561 --> 00:31:41,641 Speaker 2: I think it's also an opportunity on one level to 588 00:31:41,681 --> 00:31:45,961 Speaker 2: give your sister a voice. You see these missing persons cases, 589 00:31:46,561 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 2: they're photographs. They're girls frozen in time at a certain age, 590 00:31:50,801 --> 00:31:54,321 Speaker 2: at a certain time, and they lose a bit of 591 00:31:54,321 --> 00:31:57,281 Speaker 2: their humanity. And I think for someone like you to 592 00:31:57,281 --> 00:32:00,041 Speaker 2: stand in front of the Parliament there and tell her 593 00:32:00,041 --> 00:32:03,961 Speaker 2: what your sister was really like and why it's almost 594 00:32:04,081 --> 00:32:06,521 Speaker 2: impossible to think think that she would have left your 595 00:32:06,561 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 2: family and never come back with just a couple of 596 00:32:10,641 --> 00:32:12,401 Speaker 2: letters explaining it. 597 00:32:13,001 --> 00:32:14,721 Speaker 4: I think that's going to be very powerful. 598 00:32:16,161 --> 00:32:18,361 Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks, Adam, I think it will be too, because 599 00:32:18,441 --> 00:32:20,801 Speaker 1: like you said, you say Rting, what you said made 600 00:32:21,001 --> 00:32:24,841 Speaker 1: is totally out of character, something will we never ever 601 00:32:24,961 --> 00:32:27,281 Speaker 1: expected to happen. She had a happy life at home. 602 00:32:28,001 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 1: We all, you know, we got on well. Mom and 603 00:32:30,281 --> 00:32:32,601 Speaker 1: Dad couldn't have done enough for us. You know, they 604 00:32:32,601 --> 00:32:35,561 Speaker 1: didn't have much, but everything they had we got. Mom 605 00:32:35,641 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: even left her employment to look after us. You know, 606 00:32:38,121 --> 00:32:40,081 Speaker 1: she'd never ever used to want to leave us alone. 607 00:32:40,201 --> 00:32:44,121 Speaker 4: So so what are your memories of k. 608 00:32:45,761 --> 00:32:47,881 Speaker 1: Well, Dad used to run the local soccer club. He 609 00:32:48,041 --> 00:32:50,161 Speaker 1: was a pretty good coach. I brought him over from 610 00:32:50,161 --> 00:32:52,961 Speaker 1: Scotland actually, and we used to follow the soccer club 611 00:32:53,001 --> 00:32:55,681 Speaker 1: a lot. And I remember there was something we used 612 00:32:55,721 --> 00:32:57,641 Speaker 1: to do on a regular basis. Came and I would 613 00:32:57,641 --> 00:33:00,441 Speaker 1: always peel the oranges at half time for them, would 614 00:33:00,481 --> 00:33:03,841 Speaker 1: help mom. Mum would prepare the scripts and everything like that. 615 00:33:04,601 --> 00:33:06,681 Speaker 1: When we're young, we used to walk to school together. 616 00:33:07,401 --> 00:33:09,521 Speaker 1: We used to play out the front together. I still 617 00:33:09,521 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: remember playing handball. It's funny, actually, you think of the 618 00:33:12,761 --> 00:33:15,481 Speaker 1: best and the worst. And it was only just recently 619 00:33:15,521 --> 00:33:17,841 Speaker 1: last week. I was thinking, we're playing handball out the 620 00:33:17,841 --> 00:33:20,121 Speaker 1: front and I missed the ball and I went to 621 00:33:20,201 --> 00:33:22,481 Speaker 1: kick it when I turned around and I actually keeped 622 00:33:22,521 --> 00:33:27,521 Speaker 1: cart up the bomb. Oh yeah, it wasn't It wasn't intentional, 623 00:33:27,641 --> 00:33:30,041 Speaker 1: and she wasn't there as I turned around, sort of thing. 624 00:33:30,601 --> 00:33:32,961 Speaker 1: And you know what, I still to this day feel 625 00:33:34,081 --> 00:33:36,921 Speaker 1: I hope that wasn't a trigger for her not to 626 00:33:37,001 --> 00:33:40,481 Speaker 1: be happy and to and to change your life. But no, 627 00:33:41,361 --> 00:33:42,441 Speaker 1: she wouldn't do that, man. 628 00:33:43,361 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 2: No, I'm sure she wouldn't. I mean, twins have a 629 00:33:46,321 --> 00:33:49,561 Speaker 2: special bond, I think, and I think you two were 630 00:33:49,601 --> 00:33:50,161 Speaker 2: no different. 631 00:33:51,321 --> 00:33:52,961 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I say. We had a special bond. 632 00:33:53,001 --> 00:33:55,961 Speaker 1: We didn't like being apart. We weren't identical, but well, 633 00:33:56,001 --> 00:33:58,241 Speaker 1: how are you were apart? We were always together, always 634 00:33:58,281 --> 00:34:02,881 Speaker 1: doing family things. I had some premonissions in the early days, 635 00:34:02,961 --> 00:34:05,801 Speaker 1: you know, I had some really good dreams, really dad nightmares. 636 00:34:06,121 --> 00:34:08,921 Speaker 1: Probably I couldn't sleep properly at him for years. And 637 00:34:08,921 --> 00:34:11,241 Speaker 1: then good Mom and Dad left the front light on 638 00:34:11,321 --> 00:34:14,121 Speaker 1: that's where that all started. Back in nineteen seventy nine. 639 00:34:14,401 --> 00:34:16,561 Speaker 1: Mum always left the front light on Hope and she 640 00:34:16,561 --> 00:34:19,921 Speaker 1: would come home. That was just one's theory. Yeah, we 641 00:34:20,121 --> 00:34:22,041 Speaker 1: had a couple of premonitions of what, you know, something 642 00:34:22,081 --> 00:34:23,801 Speaker 1: had happened to her, and I had pictures of what 643 00:34:23,881 --> 00:34:26,561 Speaker 1: had happened to her, you know, visualizations of a dream. 644 00:34:26,641 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: And I still remember that peet to this day. 645 00:34:29,041 --> 00:34:33,641 Speaker 2: And Yeah, one thing that I guess irritates me a 646 00:34:33,641 --> 00:34:36,241 Speaker 2: bit is when I see in this case, the police 647 00:34:36,281 --> 00:34:39,961 Speaker 2: didn't do the basics. They didn't show diligence, they didn't 648 00:34:39,961 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 2: show dash in following. 649 00:34:41,161 --> 00:34:41,961 Speaker 4: Up all the leads. 650 00:34:42,401 --> 00:34:46,761 Speaker 2: Yet later on they talked to a psychic and she 651 00:34:46,921 --> 00:34:50,321 Speaker 2: gets all this play and she creates the whole story 652 00:34:50,361 --> 00:34:54,961 Speaker 2: about two offenders and a burial site at seven Mile Beach. 653 00:34:55,561 --> 00:34:59,081 Speaker 2: And listen, mate, maybe you believe in that stuff, but 654 00:34:59,241 --> 00:35:02,081 Speaker 2: I mean, I've got a running tally pole or whatever. 655 00:35:02,121 --> 00:35:04,881 Speaker 2: When I talked detectives, have you ever had a psychic 656 00:35:05,121 --> 00:35:09,361 Speaker 2: ever help you? It's still zero after twenty years, and 657 00:35:09,441 --> 00:35:11,961 Speaker 2: yet they continue to get publicity. 658 00:35:12,521 --> 00:35:15,241 Speaker 4: I think in that case it was just false hope. 659 00:35:16,161 --> 00:35:19,241 Speaker 1: Mate. If that's the best they can do, what does 660 00:35:19,241 --> 00:35:22,681 Speaker 1: that say about it, huh. And the false hope was 661 00:35:22,721 --> 00:35:27,481 Speaker 1: where all my thinkings started with, they're taking us down 662 00:35:27,641 --> 00:35:32,161 Speaker 1: this path. We're getting so disappointed. Around that time, Adam, 663 00:35:32,161 --> 00:35:36,041 Speaker 1: where I started thinking to myself, right, changing mindset, don't 664 00:35:36,081 --> 00:35:39,361 Speaker 1: get too excited with this, you just set yourself up 665 00:35:39,361 --> 00:35:42,521 Speaker 1: for disappointment. It got to the stage where I changed 666 00:35:42,521 --> 00:35:45,321 Speaker 1: my mindset and I was sort of a little bit older, 667 00:35:45,321 --> 00:35:48,201 Speaker 1: and I was saying to my mum, Oh, Mom, this 668 00:35:48,241 --> 00:35:50,441 Speaker 1: is just a theory. Oh, they're just thinking about this. 669 00:35:50,521 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 1: We're just going to try this. Don't get too excited yet. 670 00:35:53,681 --> 00:35:56,521 Speaker 1: Let's just wait and see, because once you get your hope, 671 00:35:56,521 --> 00:36:00,401 Speaker 1: site mate, it's a huge letdown. It's a huge letdown. 672 00:36:00,601 --> 00:36:03,841 Speaker 1: And to answer your question previously, do I believe in 673 00:36:03,881 --> 00:36:04,561 Speaker 1: side gigs? 674 00:36:05,281 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 2: No? 675 00:36:06,081 --> 00:36:09,001 Speaker 1: Have they ever done anything for else? Not? Really? Have 676 00:36:09,121 --> 00:36:14,401 Speaker 1: they tried? Yes? Now the detectives brought them in, not us. 677 00:36:14,521 --> 00:36:17,041 Speaker 1: Now there was a male and female detected. The male 678 00:36:17,121 --> 00:36:18,801 Speaker 1: detective didn't want to have anything to do with it, 679 00:36:18,921 --> 00:36:21,081 Speaker 1: but the female detective had broidery and brought it to 680 00:36:21,401 --> 00:36:25,001 Speaker 1: our house. One stranging happened when she arrived. We were 681 00:36:25,041 --> 00:36:28,921 Speaker 1: all sitting detectives and that had passed away by then 682 00:36:29,161 --> 00:36:33,081 Speaker 1: my mom, myself, and the psyche. I feel silly talking 683 00:36:33,121 --> 00:36:37,081 Speaker 1: about this, but it happened. There was two things she knew. 684 00:36:37,801 --> 00:36:41,081 Speaker 1: One what I did as a kid, just trying to 685 00:36:41,081 --> 00:36:43,441 Speaker 1: get over a fence. And I thought, how could she 686 00:36:43,641 --> 00:36:46,121 Speaker 1: know that? No one knew that. Only me and my 687 00:36:46,241 --> 00:36:48,441 Speaker 1: sister and probably my mom and dad knew that. So 688 00:36:48,601 --> 00:36:49,961 Speaker 1: what it was We had a cat and I was 689 00:36:50,001 --> 00:36:51,881 Speaker 1: really little. I was probably five years old, and I 690 00:36:51,961 --> 00:36:54,001 Speaker 1: was trying to get over the fence and I think 691 00:36:54,041 --> 00:36:55,841 Speaker 1: I put the cat under me and try to stand 692 00:36:55,881 --> 00:36:57,601 Speaker 1: on us. I get a little bit more high and 693 00:36:57,681 --> 00:37:01,601 Speaker 1: the cats run out from me. So insane that she 694 00:37:01,761 --> 00:37:04,361 Speaker 1: had mentioned that, But then she'd come up. She's sitting 695 00:37:04,401 --> 00:37:08,241 Speaker 1: there and she's smelling with her nose, and I don't 696 00:37:08,281 --> 00:37:10,041 Speaker 1: know how she would have known this. And she said 697 00:37:10,641 --> 00:37:14,721 Speaker 1: to my mum, she said, de Kay where impulse? Impulse 698 00:37:14,801 --> 00:37:17,761 Speaker 1: was a perfume back and then does again hairs on 699 00:37:17,801 --> 00:37:19,361 Speaker 1: the back of my next stood up And I won't 700 00:37:19,641 --> 00:37:22,561 Speaker 1: because I knew that, I thought, well, and Mum said, 701 00:37:22,761 --> 00:37:25,601 Speaker 1: yes she did. From there, it's ideally one of them. 702 00:37:25,641 --> 00:37:28,401 Speaker 1: We still had a hair brush with Kay's hair on her. 703 00:37:28,841 --> 00:37:30,721 Speaker 1: She said, can I take a little bit of hair, 704 00:37:30,761 --> 00:37:33,121 Speaker 1: can I take a bit of jewelry? So this is 705 00:37:33,161 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: our first dealings with mediums or psyekicks or anything. Mate. 706 00:37:37,001 --> 00:37:38,361 Speaker 1: We didn't want to get too excite it, but we 707 00:37:38,401 --> 00:37:40,241 Speaker 1: didn't want to be rude either, you know what I mean. 708 00:37:40,361 --> 00:37:41,921 Speaker 1: So we just took it all on board and we 709 00:37:42,041 --> 00:37:44,441 Speaker 1: just thought we've got to go with this. You know, 710 00:37:44,481 --> 00:37:47,201 Speaker 1: this could be something. Every time something come up, we 711 00:37:47,241 --> 00:37:50,241 Speaker 1: thought it was a lead. Mate. So yeah, we ended 712 00:37:50,321 --> 00:37:53,121 Speaker 1: up down down the coast with caliva dogs and police 713 00:37:53,241 --> 00:37:56,081 Speaker 1: and one of the police officers had changed his mind 714 00:37:56,161 --> 00:37:59,201 Speaker 1: since he was dealing with this medium. But in saying that, mate, 715 00:37:59,641 --> 00:38:02,401 Speaker 1: she's still in touch today. Nothing had to come of it. 716 00:38:04,201 --> 00:38:04,401 Speaker 4: Yeah. 717 00:38:04,481 --> 00:38:06,721 Speaker 2: I don't want to be too critical because they are 718 00:38:06,801 --> 00:38:10,321 Speaker 2: well meaning, but I think they can get one hundred 719 00:38:10,361 --> 00:38:12,801 Speaker 2: things wrong and they might get two things right and 720 00:38:12,841 --> 00:38:15,281 Speaker 2: people go, oh, how spooky. This must be a lead. 721 00:38:15,361 --> 00:38:19,321 Speaker 2: And I think particularly when all the searches at seven 722 00:38:19,361 --> 00:38:22,441 Speaker 2: Mile Beach failed, the psychic then said, well they're searching 723 00:38:22,441 --> 00:38:25,121 Speaker 2: in the wrong place. Well, yeah, you can't have it 724 00:38:25,161 --> 00:38:27,601 Speaker 2: every way, And I would love to hear from anybody 725 00:38:27,641 --> 00:38:29,241 Speaker 2: out there. Please get in touch if you've had a 726 00:38:29,241 --> 00:38:32,601 Speaker 2: psychic help you find a missing person, or solve a 727 00:38:32,721 --> 00:38:35,801 Speaker 2: murder or anything at all. Please let me know. Maybe 728 00:38:35,841 --> 00:38:37,761 Speaker 2: they can help me find my keys as well. I 729 00:38:38,001 --> 00:38:41,321 Speaker 2: just don't believe in their ability to solve crimes, and 730 00:38:41,361 --> 00:38:42,881 Speaker 2: I think that they do bring a lot of false 731 00:38:43,041 --> 00:38:45,521 Speaker 2: and a lot of grief to families. But I'm hoping 732 00:38:45,561 --> 00:38:49,721 Speaker 2: that this real world inquiry will at least put the 733 00:38:49,761 --> 00:38:52,641 Speaker 2: full story out there. And there may be someone else 734 00:38:52,681 --> 00:38:54,241 Speaker 2: out there, like I mean, for instance, the girls who 735 00:38:54,361 --> 00:38:57,241 Speaker 2: with the dance at the disco, to find out whether 736 00:38:57,281 --> 00:38:59,401 Speaker 2: the girl's actually turned up there. I think that's a 737 00:38:59,401 --> 00:39:02,481 Speaker 2: critical piece of information that still seems to be uncertain. 738 00:39:02,521 --> 00:39:06,321 Speaker 2: So this inquiry, as you say, is your best chance, 739 00:39:06,361 --> 00:39:08,081 Speaker 2: and it may well be your last, because they're all 740 00:39:08,121 --> 00:39:11,081 Speaker 2: getting older. You're getting older, your parents are gone, the 741 00:39:11,121 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 2: witnesses die each year. 742 00:39:12,961 --> 00:39:14,921 Speaker 4: The urgency is right there now. 743 00:39:15,481 --> 00:39:17,401 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. It is, mate, It's right there now. 744 00:39:17,441 --> 00:39:19,201 Speaker 1: That's why we're going to force them ahead with this. 745 00:39:19,401 --> 00:39:23,241 Speaker 1: I'm not big on Facebook. I use it occasion for 746 00:39:23,361 --> 00:39:25,721 Speaker 1: my business. I know there's a lot of stuff going 747 00:39:25,721 --> 00:39:27,801 Speaker 1: on there lately about this, and I just can't keep 748 00:39:27,841 --> 00:39:29,561 Speaker 1: up with it all. And I really don't want you 749 00:39:29,641 --> 00:39:31,561 Speaker 1: to be honest with you. It's too much day in 750 00:39:31,641 --> 00:39:34,641 Speaker 1: day out. Sometimes we just got to learn to turn 751 00:39:34,681 --> 00:39:36,801 Speaker 1: it off, try and get a little bit of normality 752 00:39:36,841 --> 00:39:39,761 Speaker 1: in our life. But in saying that, another thing the 753 00:39:39,761 --> 00:39:44,401 Speaker 1: Premier said was they wanted to narrow this inquiry down. 754 00:39:44,761 --> 00:39:46,721 Speaker 1: So I think it was from ninety sixty five to 755 00:39:46,801 --> 00:39:50,961 Speaker 1: twenty ten. That's where the investigation is. So a lot 756 00:39:50,961 --> 00:39:53,881 Speaker 1: of people have been left out of that since twenty ten. 757 00:39:53,961 --> 00:39:56,601 Speaker 1: But insane that the Premier said to me. He said, listen, 758 00:39:56,641 --> 00:39:59,241 Speaker 1: it's too wide, it's too open. If we can narrow 759 00:39:59,281 --> 00:40:01,721 Speaker 1: this down a bit, we can at least get our 760 00:40:01,761 --> 00:40:04,201 Speaker 1: foot in the door. And I felt for him to 761 00:40:04,241 --> 00:40:06,681 Speaker 1: say that and give it advice like that. What a 762 00:40:06,721 --> 00:40:09,601 Speaker 1: good man he is, and that's still the personality I 763 00:40:09,641 --> 00:40:12,481 Speaker 1: have of him. So that's where we become more about 764 00:40:12,561 --> 00:40:13,121 Speaker 1: Ivan Ala. 765 00:40:14,401 --> 00:40:16,761 Speaker 2: Yes, I think so, I think all roads do lead 766 00:40:16,801 --> 00:40:20,281 Speaker 2: to Ivan, but let's not leave other possibilities out of 767 00:40:20,321 --> 00:40:23,881 Speaker 2: the frame. You'll be there representing your sister, your mum 768 00:40:23,921 --> 00:40:28,001 Speaker 2: and dad, but also the other people who might not 769 00:40:28,081 --> 00:40:30,601 Speaker 2: have the courage or the wherewithal to get there. 770 00:40:30,681 --> 00:40:31,281 Speaker 4: Of the Parliament. 771 00:40:31,321 --> 00:40:34,921 Speaker 2: So I thank you for your unstinding advocacy and as 772 00:40:34,921 --> 00:40:36,761 Speaker 2: I said not just for your sister, but for others, 773 00:40:36,801 --> 00:40:38,521 Speaker 2: and you've been doing this for many years. So I 774 00:40:38,521 --> 00:40:40,841 Speaker 2: thank you for that on their behalf and. 775 00:40:41,041 --> 00:40:44,281 Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Right, yeah, yeah, I appreciate that. 776 00:40:44,521 --> 00:40:44,961 Speaker 1: Thank you. 777 00:40:49,601 --> 00:40:50,761 Speaker 4: Thanks for your time today. Mate. 778 00:40:51,241 --> 00:40:54,441 Speaker 2: That's Kevin Doherty on the hunt for his sister Kay Doherty, 779 00:40:54,521 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 2: missing since nineteen seventy nine. Jeremy Buckingham, he's a hero. 780 00:40:58,401 --> 00:41:00,361 Speaker 2: He's brought this inquiry to the Parliament. 781 00:41:00,721 --> 00:41:01,561 Speaker 4: There's going to be a. 782 00:41:01,481 --> 00:41:04,201 Speaker 2: Thorough going look at these cases for the first time 783 00:41:04,241 --> 00:41:06,041 Speaker 2: in a very very long time, and it's going to 784 00:41:06,041 --> 00:41:09,201 Speaker 2: be ugly if in you Sibell's Police, but hopefully there 785 00:41:09,201 --> 00:41:11,201 Speaker 2: are people in the hierarchy who say this is an 786 00:41:11,201 --> 00:41:14,401 Speaker 2: opportunity to do better, not just with those old cases 787 00:41:14,401 --> 00:41:18,041 Speaker 2: but even today, because girls are still going missing and 788 00:41:18,121 --> 00:41:21,481 Speaker 2: then they're not being found and families are still suffering. 789 00:41:21,521 --> 00:41:24,281 Speaker 2: If you can help with this inquiry, please get in 790 00:41:24,321 --> 00:41:27,601 Speaker 2: touch with Jeremy Buckingham. We'll actually put the links to 791 00:41:27,681 --> 00:41:31,721 Speaker 2: the inquiry. It's now open for submissions. Send what you can. 792 00:41:32,041 --> 00:41:34,201 Speaker 2: If you need to be confidential, do so. They will 793 00:41:34,241 --> 00:41:38,521 Speaker 2: respect your anonymity. But please don't sit there and be quite. 794 00:41:38,561 --> 00:41:41,961 Speaker 2: You've heard the impact, and we've done a number of stories. 795 00:41:42,001 --> 00:41:42,481 Speaker 4: We've talked to. 796 00:41:42,521 --> 00:41:45,681 Speaker 2: Ricky Nash, Cheryl's brother, We've talked to other families that 797 00:41:45,721 --> 00:41:49,761 Speaker 2: have lost people. Now Kevin's family. Don't let them continue 798 00:41:50,401 --> 00:41:53,881 Speaker 2: without your help. Please get in touch. You can always 799 00:41:53,921 --> 00:41:56,761 Speaker 2: call crime Stoppers if you trust the police, call one hundred, 800 00:41:56,761 --> 00:41:59,681 Speaker 2: triple three, triple zero, or you can send me an 801 00:41:59,681 --> 00:42:03,201 Speaker 2: email Adam Shanner, writer at gmail dot com. This has 802 00:42:03,201 --> 00:42:11,601 Speaker 2: been real crime with Adam shann Thank you for listening.