1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,960 Jennifer Duke: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Jennifer 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,960 Jennifer Duke: Duke. There aren't many companies that can say their brand 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:12,300 Jennifer Duke: is so synonymous with a product that they've become a 4 00:00:12,300 --> 00:00:15,690 Jennifer Duke: noun or a verb. So, think Googling something or using Post- 5 00:00:15,690 --> 00:00:18,239 Jennifer Duke: it notes, and in particular, what do you call it 6 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,030 Jennifer Duke: when you video conference call someone? Often, we just call 7 00:00:21,030 --> 00:00:23,040 Jennifer Duke: it Zoom and we've got the pandemic to thank for 8 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,369 Jennifer Duke: that. So, in 2020, as lockdowns kicked in and people 9 00:00:26,369 --> 00:00:29,340 Jennifer Duke: started working from home, the number of Australians using Zoom 10 00:00:29,340 --> 00:00:32,580 Jennifer Duke: increased 54- fold. In that year alone, there were more 11 00:00:32,580 --> 00:00:36,720 Jennifer Duke: than 800 million Zoom meetings in Asia Pacific. Now unsurprisingly, 12 00:00:36,750 --> 00:00:39,090 Jennifer Duke: the company share price soared in the US, it peaked 13 00:00:39,090 --> 00:00:43,168 Jennifer Duke: in October, 2020 at around 560 US dollars. But this 14 00:00:43,170 --> 00:00:46,139 Jennifer Duke: also shows how quickly a company's fortunes can change because 15 00:00:46,139 --> 00:00:48,420 Jennifer Duke: as life returned to normal and we all returned to 16 00:00:48,420 --> 00:00:50,519 Jennifer Duke: the office, the share price dropped and it spent much 17 00:00:50,519 --> 00:00:53,189 Jennifer Duke: of the last year hovering around the 70 US dollar mark. 18 00:00:53,639 --> 00:00:55,650 Jennifer Duke: So, what now for Zoom, where does a company go 19 00:00:55,650 --> 00:00:58,260 Jennifer Duke: after those tremendous highs and how does it stay relevant 20 00:00:58,260 --> 00:01:01,139 Jennifer Duke: and innovative? Bede Hackney is the head of Australia and 21 00:01:01,140 --> 00:01:03,330 Jennifer Duke: New Zealand at Zoom. Bede, welcome to Fair and Greed. 22 00:01:03,930 --> 00:01:05,760 Bede Hackney: Good day, Jen. Thanks very much for having me. It's 23 00:01:05,970 --> 00:01:06,331 Bede Hackney: wonderful to be here. 24 00:01:06,331 --> 00:01:10,859 Jennifer Duke: So, Zoom actually recently made some headlines because staff in 25 00:01:10,859 --> 00:01:12,750 Jennifer Duke: the US were asked to return to the office two 26 00:01:12,750 --> 00:01:15,330 Jennifer Duke: days a week if they lived within 50 miles. Do 27 00:01:15,330 --> 00:01:17,250 Jennifer Duke: you think this sent the wrong message about Zoom and 28 00:01:17,250 --> 00:01:19,620 Jennifer Duke: remote working? Because surely if any company can make it 29 00:01:19,620 --> 00:01:20,999 Jennifer Duke: work, it would be Zoom right now. 30 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,240 Bede Hackney: It's a great question, Jen. Look, I don't think so, 31 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,440 Bede Hackney: right? I think like most organizations, we're all coming to 32 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,230 Bede Hackney: grips with what's the right return to work policy to 33 00:01:31,230 --> 00:01:34,800 Bede Hackney: suit our businesses. And I think Zoom, we're in a 34 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,289 Bede Hackney: really great place to be successful in a hybrid model. 35 00:01:37,470 --> 00:01:41,699 Bede Hackney: We have the opportunity to have the full Zoom platform 36 00:01:41,700 --> 00:01:44,610 Bede Hackney: deployed end- to- end for our internal use as well. 37 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,600 Bede Hackney: But ultimately, what we think is the right business approach 38 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,840 Bede Hackney: for us is a hybrid approach, we're asking the people 39 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,060 Bede Hackney: who are close to the office to come in for 40 00:01:54,060 --> 00:01:56,670 Bede Hackney: two days a week, but actually what that means, and 41 00:01:56,670 --> 00:01:59,429 Bede Hackney: this was under the headline, Jen, what that means is that 42 00:01:59,429 --> 00:02:02,370 Bede Hackney: the majority of our workforce is still 100% remote. So, 43 00:02:02,370 --> 00:02:05,729 Bede Hackney: I think long story short, we're committed to hybrid and 44 00:02:05,730 --> 00:02:07,650 Bede Hackney: we think two days a week for folks who are 45 00:02:07,650 --> 00:02:09,810 Bede Hackney: close to the office is the right approach for our 46 00:02:09,810 --> 00:02:13,411 Bede Hackney: business at the moment. But we're all figuring out RTO. 47 00:02:13,411 --> 00:02:15,510 Jennifer Duke: That's a very good point about the majority of the 48 00:02:15,510 --> 00:02:18,150 Jennifer Duke: workforce. I'm curious about what those benefits are of that in- 49 00:02:18,150 --> 00:02:20,880 Jennifer Duke: person aspect and how that blends for Zoom? 50 00:02:21,630 --> 00:02:24,329 Bede Hackney: Yeah, look, I think a couple of things, right? I think Zoom is 51 00:02:24,540 --> 00:02:28,260 Bede Hackney: undergoing transformation. The Zoom company today is much more than 52 00:02:28,260 --> 00:02:31,290 Bede Hackney: just meetings. Obviously, everyone knows and loves our great meetings 53 00:02:31,290 --> 00:02:34,169 Bede Hackney: product. And as you pointed out in the opening, I 54 00:02:34,169 --> 00:02:37,410 Bede Hackney: think the pandemic offered an opportunity for everyone to get 55 00:02:37,410 --> 00:02:40,649 Bede Hackney: to know that part of our platform. But the platform 56 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,190 Bede Hackney: is much more than that. And actually as a company, 57 00:02:44,190 --> 00:02:47,400 Bede Hackney: the speed of our innovation at Zoom is something that I've 58 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,389 Bede Hackney: worked for US tech vendors for 25 years and I've 59 00:02:51,389 --> 00:02:54,990 Bede Hackney: not seen another tech company that innovates at the same pace 60 00:02:54,990 --> 00:02:57,089 Bede Hackney: as Zoom. And so, what that means is that we're 61 00:02:57,089 --> 00:03:02,370 Bede Hackney: continually developing new products and new solutions that we need 62 00:03:02,370 --> 00:03:05,340 Bede Hackney: to introduce different people in our customers to, so that they 63 00:03:05,340 --> 00:03:08,729 Bede Hackney: can consider using those platforms. And so, with all of 64 00:03:08,730 --> 00:03:11,310 Bede Hackney: that speed of innovation and the need to talk to 65 00:03:11,490 --> 00:03:15,419 Bede Hackney: new customers and new personas, we find that that's easier 66 00:03:15,419 --> 00:03:17,549 Bede Hackney: if we have at least some portion of that in 67 00:03:17,549 --> 00:03:20,430 Bede Hackney: person. And also, the opportunity for our teams to learn 68 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,160 Bede Hackney: in person from each other in the office is something 69 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,950 Bede Hackney: that can't be understated. And so like I said, it's 70 00:03:25,950 --> 00:03:28,860 Bede Hackney: not 100% back into the office. We are committed to 71 00:03:28,860 --> 00:03:31,320 Bede Hackney: the hybrid future, but this is the right approach for 72 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:31,590 Bede Hackney: us today. 73 00:03:32,250 --> 00:03:33,569 Jennifer Duke: And I think that's a really good point that you 74 00:03:33,570 --> 00:03:37,200 Jennifer Duke: make about that need to innovate beyond just the video 75 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,990 Jennifer Duke: conferencing, because Zoom obviously has this huge reputation that I 76 00:03:39,990 --> 00:03:43,650 Jennifer Duke: mentioned for providing that video product. Can that work against 77 00:03:43,650 --> 00:03:46,469 Jennifer Duke: the brand sometimes? Is it difficult to get customers aware 78 00:03:46,469 --> 00:03:48,030 Jennifer Duke: that you do all these other things as well? 79 00:03:48,780 --> 00:03:52,260 Bede Hackney: Yeah. Look, I think that's an interesting question and I think there's some truth there, 80 00:03:52,260 --> 00:03:55,170 Bede Hackney: right? I think, for most organizations or most people, when 81 00:03:55,170 --> 00:03:58,620 Bede Hackney: you think of Zoom, you immediately jump to meetings. I'll 82 00:03:58,620 --> 00:04:00,720 Bede Hackney: share with you, Jen, that Zoom is the first time my 83 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,560 Bede Hackney: mom knows the company that I work for. So, that's super interesting. 84 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:06,060 Jennifer Duke: That's beautiful. I like that. 85 00:04:07,620 --> 00:04:11,730 Bede Hackney: But I think it's also an opportunity because everybody does 86 00:04:11,730 --> 00:04:14,310 Bede Hackney: know who Zoom is. More than half of the population 87 00:04:14,310 --> 00:04:17,160 Bede Hackney: have Zoom installed on a device here in Australia, right? 88 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,400 Bede Hackney: And so, I think as we start to innovate and we 89 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,998 Bede Hackney: introduce new solutions in things like contact center and new 90 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:28,199 Bede Hackney: solutions in things like workforce engagement or our Zoom Phone 91 00:04:28,199 --> 00:04:31,830 Bede Hackney: platform. That ability to have an existing relationship and a 92 00:04:31,830 --> 00:04:36,000 Bede Hackney: brand that people know and trust and importantly, love, I 93 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:37,890 Bede Hackney: would say that's more of a positive than a negative, 94 00:04:37,890 --> 00:04:40,980 Bede Hackney: but certainly there's that initial, " Hey, I know what Zoom 95 00:04:40,980 --> 00:04:43,349 Bede Hackney: does." That we need to overcome as a business, for sure. 96 00:04:44,009 --> 00:04:46,618 Jennifer Duke: And you're obviously in a very competitive space because there's 97 00:04:46,619 --> 00:04:49,740 Jennifer Duke: lots of big players here. There's Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, 98 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,140 Jennifer Duke: WebEx by Cisco, Skype, all the rest. How do you 99 00:04:52,140 --> 00:04:55,650 Jennifer Duke: keep innovating to remain competitive in this space? What sets 100 00:04:55,650 --> 00:04:56,340 Jennifer Duke: Zoom apart? 101 00:04:57,059 --> 00:04:59,879 Bede Hackney: Yeah, I think it's the innovator's dilemma, right? I don't 102 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:04,618 Bede Hackney: think it's overstating it to say that at Zoom we redefined 103 00:05:04,619 --> 00:05:08,640 Bede Hackney: what video communications mean, but I'm really happy to say 104 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,940 Bede Hackney: that we haven't rested on that advantage. We continue to 105 00:05:11,940 --> 00:05:16,050 Bede Hackney: innovate in the unified communication space. I think even some 106 00:05:16,050 --> 00:05:17,820 Bede Hackney: of the announcements that we've made in the last couple 107 00:05:17,820 --> 00:05:22,229 Bede Hackney: of weeks around making our AI Companion available to all 108 00:05:22,230 --> 00:05:25,650 Bede Hackney: of our paid customers for free, there's no additional cost. 109 00:05:25,650 --> 00:05:28,470 Bede Hackney: If you look at some of those competitors you mentioned, 110 00:05:28,470 --> 00:05:33,299 Bede Hackney: they're charging 20 and $30 US per user for AI capabilities. We've 111 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,779 Bede Hackney: bundled it into the paid platform so that everyone can 112 00:05:36,779 --> 00:05:39,928 Bede Hackney: have access to that. And I think that's just one example 113 00:05:39,928 --> 00:05:43,409 Bede Hackney: of where we continue to move the bar. I particularly 114 00:05:43,410 --> 00:05:47,549 Bede Hackney: love ... So, AI Companion is a range of capabilities. A 115 00:05:47,550 --> 00:05:51,178 Bede Hackney: couple of my favorites are meeting summary and meeting catch 116 00:05:51,178 --> 00:05:54,510 Bede Hackney: up. And so, if you join a Zoom meeting and I 117 00:05:54,599 --> 00:05:56,520 Bede Hackney: do this occasionally, I'm ashamed to admit, but if you 118 00:05:56,759 --> 00:05:59,219 Bede Hackney: join a Zoom meeting five or six minutes late, then 119 00:05:59,219 --> 00:06:01,230 Bede Hackney: you can hit the catch- me- up feature and it 120 00:06:01,230 --> 00:06:03,360 Bede Hackney: allows you to take 30 seconds to read through the 121 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,330 Bede Hackney: key points that have been discussed rather than stopping the 122 00:06:06,330 --> 00:06:10,020 Bede Hackney: meeting for the other 10 or 15 folks who've already been into 123 00:06:10,020 --> 00:06:12,389 Bede Hackney: it. So, the other thing, and it comes back to 124 00:06:12,389 --> 00:06:15,060 Bede Hackney: the conversation earlier about Zoom being more than just meetings. 125 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,609 Bede Hackney: I think we have done a really good job, frankly, 126 00:06:17,609 --> 00:06:22,740 Bede Hackney: of innovating outside of just the traditional unified communications platform. 127 00:06:22,740 --> 00:06:26,040 Bede Hackney: We've particularly put a lot of time and energy into 128 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,849 Bede Hackney: creating a customer experience platform. And I think that's a 129 00:06:29,849 --> 00:06:31,919 Bede Hackney: completely different area of endeavor for us. 130 00:06:32,428 --> 00:06:33,990 Jennifer Duke: Stay with me, Bede. We'll be back in a minute. 131 00:06:40,260 --> 00:06:42,659 Jennifer Duke: I'm speaking to Bede Hackney, head of Australia and New 132 00:06:42,660 --> 00:06:46,770 Jennifer Duke: Zealand at Zoom. I think it's really interesting because the 133 00:06:46,770 --> 00:06:49,888 Jennifer Duke: AI aspect, clearly everyone is talking about that is, it's 134 00:06:49,889 --> 00:06:51,928 Jennifer Duke: the big trend of the year, I would say, and 135 00:06:51,928 --> 00:06:54,510 Jennifer Duke: probably for a few more to come. And you're mentioning 136 00:06:54,510 --> 00:06:57,690 Jennifer Duke: how you're integrating that into video conferencing. Where do you 137 00:06:57,690 --> 00:07:00,360 Jennifer Duke: see the potential with AI? I mean, obviously there is 138 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,760 Jennifer Duke: that great catch- up feature, which I'm sure many people 139 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,729 Jennifer Duke: would be very thankful for, but are there other innovations 140 00:07:05,730 --> 00:07:07,499 Jennifer Duke: you've got in mind using AI specifically? 141 00:07:08,190 --> 00:07:11,249 Bede Hackney: Yeah, look, I think it's a super interesting topic and 142 00:07:11,250 --> 00:07:13,950 Bede Hackney: I completely agree with you, I think we are in the 143 00:07:13,950 --> 00:07:16,020 Bede Hackney: middle of an AI revolution, and I don't think that's 144 00:07:16,020 --> 00:07:18,780 Bede Hackney: overstating it. And it will be a multi- year revolution. 145 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,619 Bede Hackney: At Zoom in particular, we're super focused on how we 146 00:07:22,620 --> 00:07:26,520 Bede Hackney: leverage AI and how we unlock the capabilities of AI 147 00:07:26,580 --> 00:07:30,090 Bede Hackney: to drive productivity. This is a bit of a passion 148 00:07:30,090 --> 00:07:32,610 Bede Hackney: project for me, but if you look at the typical 149 00:07:32,610 --> 00:07:35,640 Bede Hackney: knowledge worker, there's some data that shows that the typical 150 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,059 Bede Hackney: knowledge worker spends 60% of their time doing work about 151 00:07:39,059 --> 00:07:43,559 Bede Hackney: work rather than the specific tasks that their role is hired to do. 152 00:07:43,559 --> 00:07:46,859 Bede Hackney: And in a hybrid world, that only gets more, right? 153 00:07:46,859 --> 00:07:50,100 Bede Hackney: Because not only are you spending time searching for documents 154 00:07:50,100 --> 00:07:55,020 Bede Hackney: and updating documents, but you're also spending more time communicating 155 00:07:55,020 --> 00:07:57,660 Bede Hackney: and trying to keep the whole team on point. And 156 00:07:57,660 --> 00:08:00,900 Bede Hackney: I think there's a huge potential for AI to really 157 00:08:00,990 --> 00:08:05,699 Bede Hackney: address that productivity burn. Right? I've seen other studies that 158 00:08:05,699 --> 00:08:09,330 Bede Hackney: talk about they think that generative AI particularly has the 159 00:08:09,330 --> 00:08:12,870 Bede Hackney: ability to reduce busy work for knowledge workers by as 160 00:08:12,870 --> 00:08:14,970 Bede Hackney: much as a third. Personally, I actually think it could 161 00:08:14,970 --> 00:08:18,420 Bede Hackney: be more. But yeah, we're super focused on that area. 162 00:08:18,420 --> 00:08:21,239 Bede Hackney: We're super focused on how do we make employees more 163 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,849 Bede Hackney: productive in their internal conversations and how do we make 164 00:08:23,850 --> 00:08:27,690 Bede Hackney: them more productive in their customer conversations as well? 165 00:08:28,260 --> 00:08:30,810 Jennifer Duke: You sound very passionate about this, and you've actually only 166 00:08:30,810 --> 00:08:32,759 Jennifer Duke: just started in the role a few months ago, I 167 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,270 Jennifer Duke: believe. How important do you think this fresh perspective is 168 00:08:36,270 --> 00:08:39,599 Jennifer Duke: on Zoom rather than someone who's been through that pandemic 169 00:08:39,599 --> 00:08:40,800 Jennifer Duke: era part of the company? 170 00:08:41,789 --> 00:08:44,488 Bede Hackney: Look, Jen, I think honestly, there's value in both, right? 171 00:08:44,670 --> 00:08:48,690 Bede Hackney: I think Zoom has had a trajectory that is unlike 172 00:08:48,690 --> 00:08:51,030 Bede Hackney: many other organizations in history, right? And so, I think 173 00:08:51,030 --> 00:08:54,718 Bede Hackney: there's some huge learnings and some real value in the 174 00:08:54,719 --> 00:08:58,619 Bede Hackney: organizational history that goes with having experienced those learnings. And 175 00:08:58,619 --> 00:09:00,990 Bede Hackney: at the same time, I mentioned that we're a company 176 00:09:00,990 --> 00:09:04,050 Bede Hackney: that is transforming as well. More and more, and you 177 00:09:04,050 --> 00:09:07,290 Bede Hackney: will have seen in our global learning school, that more 178 00:09:07,290 --> 00:09:10,409 Bede Hackney: and more we're addressing the enterprise segment of the market. 179 00:09:10,590 --> 00:09:12,689 Bede Hackney: And so, I think there's some value in bringing some 180 00:09:12,809 --> 00:09:15,719 Bede Hackney: new perspectives, hopefully like myself. That's a little plug for 181 00:09:15,719 --> 00:09:16,828 Bede Hackney: me, by the way, Jen. But yeah, I think there's some real value 182 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,601 Bede Hackney: in bringing new perspectives to the organization at the same time. 183 00:09:21,601 --> 00:09:26,130 Jennifer Duke: And I want to ask this because obviously Zoom is, as you're 184 00:09:26,130 --> 00:09:29,639 Jennifer Duke: mentioning, a global business. How do the needs of Australians 185 00:09:29,639 --> 00:09:31,679 Jennifer Duke: differ to say, people in the US? 186 00:09:32,580 --> 00:09:36,600 Bede Hackney: Look, obviously there's cultural nuance between the two markets, but 187 00:09:36,690 --> 00:09:39,660 Bede Hackney: I think we're super similar, right? In real terms, when 188 00:09:39,660 --> 00:09:42,690 Bede Hackney: I look at the Australian business and we're driving great 189 00:09:42,690 --> 00:09:45,689 Bede Hackney: growth here in Australia, I wouldn't say there's anything that 190 00:09:45,690 --> 00:09:50,340 Bede Hackney: statistically differentiates us. I think here in Australia, we're seeing 191 00:09:50,340 --> 00:09:54,990 Bede Hackney: great interest and growth in the enterprise segment. The technologies 192 00:09:54,990 --> 00:09:57,840 Bede Hackney: that I talked about earlier, the Zoom Phone and Zoom 193 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,500 Bede Hackney: Contact Center, and our workforce engagement platform, which is a 194 00:10:01,500 --> 00:10:04,470 Bede Hackney: result of an acquisition of Workvivo a few months ago. 195 00:10:05,070 --> 00:10:08,550 Bede Hackney: Those technologies are all getting a huge amount of interests 196 00:10:08,610 --> 00:10:12,059 Bede Hackney: here in Australia. And so, I think the interest and 197 00:10:12,059 --> 00:10:14,760 Bede Hackney: the challenges that we're trying to solve are pretty similar 198 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,220 Bede Hackney: between the Australian market and the US market, to be honest. 199 00:10:17,820 --> 00:10:20,639 Jennifer Duke: And one more question, if I may? What's the next 200 00:10:20,639 --> 00:10:21,569 Jennifer Duke: big thing for Zoom? 201 00:10:22,950 --> 00:10:25,950 Bede Hackney: Well, and so, amazing question, Jen, and super well- timed 202 00:10:25,950 --> 00:10:28,650 Bede Hackney: actually, because in a couple of weeks time, the first 203 00:10:28,650 --> 00:10:33,150 Bede Hackney: week of October, we've got our Zoomtopia global user event. It's 204 00:10:33,150 --> 00:10:36,000 Bede Hackney: the fourth time that we've run this event. We're running 205 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,040 Bede Hackney: it as an in- person event in San Jose in 206 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,218 Bede Hackney: the States, but also as a virtual event. And I 207 00:10:41,219 --> 00:10:43,170 Bede Hackney: think like a lot of vendors today, we save a 208 00:10:43,170 --> 00:10:45,449 Bede Hackney: huge amount of announcements for that event. And so, I'd 209 00:10:45,900 --> 00:10:50,069 Bede Hackney: really encourage your listeners to come along and yeah, a 210 00:10:50,069 --> 00:10:53,610 Bede Hackney: lot of great announcements that I know are being cooked on for that particular event. 211 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,250 Jennifer Duke: Bede, thank you so much for talking to Fear and Greed. 212 00:10:56,670 --> 00:10:58,021 Bede Hackney: No problem at all, Jen, wonderful to be here. Thank you. 213 00:10:58,021 --> 00:11:01,410 Jennifer Duke: And that was Bede Hackney, the head of Australia and 214 00:11:01,410 --> 00:11:04,109 Jennifer Duke: New Zealand at Zoom. This is the Fear and Greed 215 00:11:04,109 --> 00:11:07,110 Jennifer Duke: Business Interview. Join us every morning for the full episode 216 00:11:07,110 --> 00:11:10,200 Jennifer Duke: of Fear and Greed, Australia's best business podcast. I'm Jennifer 217 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,350 Jennifer Duke: Duke, economics correspondent at Capital Brief and filling in for 218 00:11:13,350 --> 00:11:15,090 Jennifer Duke: Sean Aylmer. Have a great day.