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Speaker 1: Today on Fear and Greed. The federal government is set

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Speaker 1: to mandate the acceptance of cash in essential services. Resolute

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Speaker 1: Mining pays two hundred and fifty million dollars to enable

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Speaker 1: a CEO to be released from Mali, and Rolls Royce

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Speaker 1: pushes into space exploration. Plus more on Prime Minister Anthony

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Speaker 1: Albanezi meeting with Chinese leader Jijinping and the incredible arrest

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Speaker 1: of former radio announcer Alan Jones. Welcome to Fear and Greed,

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Speaker 1: daily business news for people who make their own decisions.

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Speaker 1: It is Tuesday, the nineteenth of November twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: I'm Michael Thompson and good morning Sean Aylmer.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Michael, Sean.

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Speaker 1: The main story this morning, cash, it seems, is not dead.

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Speaker 1: In fact, it isn't being allowed to die really, with

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Speaker 1: Treasurer Jim Chalmers saying the government will mandate that some

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Speaker 1: essential services keep accepting cash from customers.

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Speaker 2: Groceries and fuel providers, for example the supermarkets. I'm sure

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Speaker 2: we'll have to pay cash if people want to use

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Speaker 2: that form of payment. One and a half million Australians

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Speaker 2: still rely on cash, and doctor Chalmers yesterday said the

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Speaker 2: government wants to make it an ongoing feature of our economy,

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Speaker 2: even as we modernize the payment system. About ninety four

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Speaker 2: percent of businesses still do accept cash. It was ninety

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Speaker 2: nine percent a few years ago, so it is decreasing.

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Speaker 2: Debit Cards, according to Reserve Bank, account for about fifty

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Speaker 2: one percent of payments nowadays, credit cards are about twenty

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Speaker 2: six percent, Cash is thirteen percent, and there's a grab

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Speaker 2: bag of methods for the other ten percent. Checks of

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Speaker 2: course is a big one there. Checkso are being phased out,

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Speaker 2: so that'll take a while. Banks have to accept them

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Speaker 2: until twenty twenty nine now. Opposition Finance spokesperson Jane Hume

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Speaker 2: came out yesterday. She said that the idea may raise

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Speaker 2: costs for business I don't think that's actually the case

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Speaker 2: because usually cash is the lowest cost method, particularly for

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Speaker 2: small businesses. Debit cards are generally lower costs, and credit

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Speaker 2: cards but not as cheap as cash. Normally, chop owners

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Speaker 2: pay higher fees to accept credit cards because it's basically

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Speaker 2: borrowing money from your card provider. That's a matter of

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Speaker 2: fees for that particular one. Anyway, the idea that cash

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Speaker 2: will disappear nap, it's hanging around.

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Speaker 1: I suppose there'll be some ongoing costs, so weren't there

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Speaker 1: in terms of the transporting of money, which is something

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Speaker 1: that we've seen a lot about fairly recently with Armor

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Speaker 1: guard Lin Fox, with really a temporary situation having to

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Speaker 1: be set up just to enable cash to still be

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Speaker 1: transported around the country because that is a fairly expensive process.

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Speaker 2: Sure is, in most of that cost falls on the

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Speaker 2: big banks, the big retailers, like the supermarket guys. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's a good point. That will still has to play

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Speaker 2: out and they still need to get cash around the economy.

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Speaker 2: But Jim Chums YESTERDA made it clear that's going to happen,

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Speaker 2: so there has to be a solution for that one,

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Speaker 2: all right.

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Speaker 1: Staying in politics, shown the Federal Opposition and Greens are

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Speaker 1: set to join forces to vote down the government plans

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Speaker 1: to cap international student places at two hundred and seventy

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Speaker 1: thousand from next year.

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Speaker 2: You don't really see the Greens and the Federal Opposition

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Speaker 2: joining forces too much.

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Speaker 1: They're not the most likely of bedfellows, are they.

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Speaker 2: No. Anyway, the Opposition and Greens are coming at this

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Speaker 2: one from very very different directions, So the coalition doesn't

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Speaker 2: want the bill to go through because it doesn't go

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Speaker 2: far enough. It wants much bigger reductions like it does

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Speaker 2: on two hundred and seventy thousand cap for international students.

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Speaker 2: It wants far fewer Greens. Well, they're just worried about

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Speaker 2: job losses across the education sector. Arguably they want more

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Speaker 2: people coming into the economy. Labor has said it wants

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Speaker 2: to cap new international students at two hundred and seventy

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Speaker 2: thousand starting from January next year. The universities are certainly

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Speaker 2: not happy because that's how they make a lot of

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Speaker 2: their money, but they have been knocking back applications because

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Speaker 2: they've reached their limit. Anyway, it looks like that legislation

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Speaker 2: won't be passed because the coalition of the Greens won't

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Speaker 2: support it.

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Speaker 1: In Federal Parliament are sitting this week, it's sitting next

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Speaker 1: week as well, the final fortnight before the Christmas break.

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Speaker 1: Although Prime Minister Anthony Abernezi isn't actually around for it.

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Speaker 2: Much is he here. It takes a bit of sting

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Speaker 2: out of proceedings. He won't be there this week. He's

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Speaker 2: in Brazil at the G twenty summit. Of course, Yesterday

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Speaker 2: question time was mostly about energy policy and climate change,

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Speaker 2: new care policy, that sort of thing. One remarkable thing

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Speaker 2: yesterday it is remarkable an unusual event, maybe is a

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Speaker 2: better way of putting it. During question time, tail MP

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Speaker 2: Monique Ryan was asked a question. You might think, why

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Speaker 2: is that remarkable because during question time coalition and labor

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Speaker 2: politicians are asked questions, never the Independent. It's allowed, but

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Speaker 2: it never ever happens. Anyway, Yesterday she was asked about

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Speaker 2: her Private member's bill that aims to clean up politics.

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Speaker 2: She did get table whack at the government. She said

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Speaker 2: that integrity measures placed before the House, not just hers

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Speaker 2: but other independents as well, haven't been debated by this government,

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Speaker 2: and she was quite critical of that.

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Speaker 1: Sean a quick mention of today's interview, I reckon the

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Speaker 1: interview that's coming up after the show today is one

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Speaker 1: of the best that we have had on the show

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Speaker 1: for a very long time. You're speaking with Liz Broderick

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Speaker 1: from Elizabeth Broderick and Co.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So it's all about corporate culture. We have had

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Speaker 2: some high profile cases of well allegations but potentially poor

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Speaker 2: corporate culture from some large listed companies. We've seen it

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Speaker 2: in mining, we've seen it in technology. We've seen it

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Speaker 2: in media and we asked Liz about that. We ask

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Speaker 2: why isn't corporate cous why we're still having the conversation.

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Speaker 2: You know, we're talking about this fifteen years ago. Are

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Speaker 2: we getting in better? And what more needs to be done?

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Speaker 2: Liz fantastic person, done more in this area than any

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Speaker 2: other Australian, I would argue, and continues to be very

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Speaker 2: passionate about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Of course, as the former Sex Discrimination Commissioner, I

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Speaker 1: would say that she would be pretty much Australia's leading

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Speaker 1: expert on all of this. So it is a great conversation.

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Speaker 1: So please stick around for that one and have a

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Speaker 1: listeners coming up after the show. We still have a

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Speaker 1: fair to get through though, Sean. We'll be back in

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Speaker 1: a moment with the rest of the day's business news.

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Speaker 1: Sean Prime Minister Anthony Alberanzi was due to meet Chinese

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Speaker 1: President Jijin Ping overnight at the G twenty Leader's Summit

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Speaker 1: in Brazil and call for more backbone from global leaders

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Speaker 1: around conflicts in the Middle East and in Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: Mister Albanesi was expected to say that the conflicts are

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Speaker 2: the key drivers of hunger, poverty, higher inflation and higher

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Speaker 2: energy prices. It's the word meeting between the two since

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Speaker 2: relations began thawing. They are also likely to have discussed

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Speaker 2: the threat posed by Donald Trump to free trade. According

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Speaker 2: to the friend Review, of course, mister Trump has threatened

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Speaker 2: sixty percent tariffs on Chinese goods up to twenty percent

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Speaker 2: on Australian goods. It is very interesting that over the

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Speaker 2: past week at the Apex Summit in g twenty, free

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Speaker 2: trade is foremost in most leader's minds about what needs

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Speaker 2: to be discussed. The key irritant in the relationship between

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Speaker 2: Australia and China, of course, is regional security. That's also

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Speaker 2: likely to have been discussed.

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Speaker 1: The outgoing US Ambassador to Australia, Caroline Kennedy very famous

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Speaker 1: name call for calm over President elect Donald Trump's picks

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Speaker 1: for government positions. I can't believe that she's nearly finished here.

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Speaker 1: It only seems like yesterday that we were talking about

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Speaker 1: her arrival in Australia.

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Speaker 2: I know it must have been a fairly Is it

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Speaker 2: only two years? Yeah, yeah, I think it is only

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Speaker 2: two years. It's sort of a valid directory speech at

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Speaker 2: the New National Press Club yesterday. She's about to head off.

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Speaker 2: She was asked things from what do you reckon of

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Speaker 2: your cousin Robert F. Kennedy Junior's appointment to the Department

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Speaker 2: of Health, the anti vaccinator man, and she said, oh,

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Speaker 2: Bobby Kennedy, I've known him for a long time. Just

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Speaker 2: wait and see. The other thing about Robert F. Kennedy

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Speaker 2: Junior that I liked is that his Department of Health

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Speaker 2: and he appeared in a photo shoot. Did you see

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Speaker 2: on Trump's plane Eddie McDonald's I'm digressing.

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Speaker 1: After committing to cleaning up the American diet and all

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Speaker 1: of this. It's a great look, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. She was asked about whether Australia should trust

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Speaker 2: the US with sensitive information, particularly after pro Russian politician

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Speaker 2: Tulsy Gabbard was picked as Director of National Intelligence. Her response,

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Speaker 2: and I quote, let's just calm down and see what happens.

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Speaker 2: She also pointed out that all these people need to

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Speaker 2: get confirmed. She was very positive about Foreign Affairs Minister

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Speaker 2: Penny Wong. She said she's among the most impressive leaders

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Speaker 2: on the world stage and is redefining Australia's role in

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Speaker 2: the region.

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Speaker 1: June twenty twenty two, she took her job. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: two year term feels like it's flown by the share

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Speaker 1: away from politics. Now though there is a political element

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Speaker 1: to this, isn't there. The share price of Resolute Mining

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Speaker 1: tumbled five point five percent yesterday after the miner agreed

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Speaker 1: to pay one hundred and sixty million US dollars to

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Speaker 1: the Mali government, which has detained CEO Terence Hollahan and

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Speaker 1: two other executives.

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Speaker 2: That's right, it's about two hundred and fifty million Australian dollars.

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Speaker 2: Half will be paid now, half will be paid later.

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Speaker 2: In a statement to the ASEX yesterday, Resolute, which of

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Speaker 2: course is a gold miner, said all outstanding claims by

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Speaker 2: the Malian government related to tax, customer levies, maintenance and

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Speaker 2: management of offshore accounts are now settled. It also talked

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Speaker 2: about a framework for further detailed discussion regarding the long

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Speaker 2: term future of the operations in Marli. I'm not quite

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Speaker 2: clear what that means. The Mali government has certainly been

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Speaker 2: pushing to take a thirty percent stake in mining companies

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Speaker 2: in that country. The ruling junta. We had this discussion yesterday.

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Speaker 2: We thought it was junta or junta.

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Speaker 1: It was on the weekend edition. And you know what,

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Speaker 1: I think we got so caught up in a whole

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Speaker 1: bunch of other things that we never actually landed on

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Speaker 1: an answer, and it means no one has actually googled

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Speaker 1: it between then and now, So we're in the same

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Speaker 1: position as we were forty eight thirty six hours ago.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to go why like yeah, rather than junta.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, the ruling junta came to power in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty one. They've been using ransom style techniques to force

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Speaker 2: mining companies to renegotiate contracts. There's a few Canadian gold miners,

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Speaker 2: for example, who have paid out ransoms. At the moment, though,

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Speaker 2: the focus for the company, of course, is working on

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Speaker 2: the release of the three executives, including the CEO, Terrence Hollahan.

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Speaker 1: The big two supermarkets, Willies and Cole's are having there

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Speaker 1: say at a public hearing into the sector Sean.

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Speaker 2: Yes, of course, they are facing allegations of sham discounts

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Speaker 2: from the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission. What they will

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Speaker 2: say over the next week or so is that the

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Speaker 2: period examined by the HABC was particularly volatile. It was

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Speaker 2: post COVID nineteen. I also claim that the competition watchdog

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Speaker 2: misunderstands how discounting actually works. Yesterday, the Wooly CEO Amanda

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Speaker 2: bard Wall was in the hot seat. She said the

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Speaker 2: industry is fiercely competitive, not just Woolies and Coals, but

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Speaker 2: also Costco, Aldi, Chemist Warehouse. She also denied that the

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Speaker 2: retailer is land banking. Now that's the idea that a

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Speaker 2: retailer would hold onto sites even if they don't want

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Speaker 2: to develop the site themselves. They just don't want to

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Speaker 2: make sure a competitor develops the sites that they're just

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Speaker 2: told on to the land land banking. Anyway, yesterday miss

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Speaker 2: Bardwell was very definitive that Woollies wasn't doing that.

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Speaker 1: Shown the commodity sector saved the local share market yesterday

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Speaker 1: with the big miners off setting losses in other sectors.

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Speaker 2: So there's a bounds and nine ore prices that helped

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Speaker 2: BADGEP four Deescu Metals and Rio. There's also more confidence

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Speaker 2: in uranium, aluminium and gold stocks kind of for different reasons.

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Speaker 2: I mean, for example, an aluminium minor South thirty two

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Speaker 2: was up six percent after there was news of a

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Speaker 2: potential tax change in China. The Trump trade stocks, tech, healthcare, financials.

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Speaker 2: They struggled a bit now. Over the weekend, Wall Street

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Speaker 2: fell back as the enthusiasm for Trump trade stocks diminished.

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Speaker 2: That's all about fears of higher interest rates for longer.

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Speaker 2: By the end of the day yesterday, the SMPA six

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Speaker 2: two hundred closed up zero point two percent two ninety

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Speaker 2: three hundred points. In corporate news, Life three sixty co

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Speaker 2: founder Chris Holes he sold one point two percent of

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Speaker 2: the total outstanding shares in that company. The reason to

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Speaker 2: diversify his financial wealth. He has plenty of wealth. That

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Speaker 2: sale will net him about well, not net him, but

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Speaker 2: gross him about thirty six million dollars. Of course, investors

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Speaker 2: don't like it when founders start selling shares, so it's

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Speaker 2: share price Life three sixty share price fill more than

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Speaker 2: six percent yesterday. Also worth a mention. Bond markets, Mike All,

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Speaker 2: the enthusiasm for a February rate cut is diminishing by

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Speaker 2: the day. Bond market's now pricing in a fifty to

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Speaker 2: fifty percent chance of a rate cut in April, one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent chance by July next year.

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Speaker 1: Can I just rewind slightly, Sean, because about what a

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Speaker 1: minute and a half ago. You said something, and I've

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Speaker 1: listened to the rest of what you said, but I've

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Speaker 1: been stuck on a point that you made earlier about

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Speaker 1: the bounce in iron ore prices helping BHP and four

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Speaker 1: deskew and rio. Why Why did the price of iron

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Speaker 1: ore bounce because it was heading in the other direction

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Speaker 1: late last week?

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Speaker 2: Ah? Yes, well went back above one hundred US dollars.

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Speaker 2: Announced yesterday there was some Chinese steel production data came

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Speaker 2: out and the numbers were the numbers are up six percent.

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Speaker 2: Production was up six percent. It was eighty two million

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Speaker 2: tons in October steel production eighty two million tons.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's still the five year average, but it's rising.

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Speaker 2: And so that's kind of what the enthusiasm was about.

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Speaker 2: Eighty two million tons in one month.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but you know I've I've just delivered my

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Speaker 1: insight into that, didn't I just with my three word

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Speaker 1: comment that's a lot. Yeah, thanks Michael, Thanks for your

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Speaker 1: contribution anytime. That's what I'm here for.

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Speaker 2: So steel production is There's also some signs of life

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Speaker 2: in the Chinese housing sector. According to the Commonwealth Bank,

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Speaker 2: new home prices for seventy cities fell for the seventeenth

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Speaker 2: consecutive month last month, but the pace of contraction has lessened.

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Speaker 2: So according to our friend Vivek at Commonwealth Bank, that's

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Speaker 2: actually good news. Seventeen consecutive months, falling pace for contraction lessoned.

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Speaker 2: You're going to say something, Michael, I'm looking at you. No, No,

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Speaker 2: I wasn't.

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Speaker 1: I was about to ask you about it, but I'm

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Speaker 1: just like, you know what, you know what, I'm just

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Speaker 1: I've already put my foot in my mouth with my

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Speaker 1: that's a lot comment. I'm just gonna let you go.

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Speaker 2: Oil remains under pressure of the International Energy Agency four

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Speaker 2: cars global oil supply will exceed demand by more than

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Speaker 2: one million barrels per day next year, and the Aussie

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Speaker 2: dollar is up a bit sixty four point six US

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Speaker 2: since that's more about that Trump trade little people. Well,

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't say disliking the US dollar. That's overstating it,

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Speaker 2: but just not quite as confident about the US dollar.

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Speaker 1: I mentioned this story at the top of the show.

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Speaker 1: Sean broadcaster Alan Jones was yesterday arrested over allegations of

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Speaker 1: indecent assault and sexual touching between two thousand and one

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Speaker 1: and twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 2: The eighty three year old was taken away in an

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Speaker 2: unmarked police car and charged with twenty four offenses against

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Speaker 2: eight victims, including eleven counts of agriva indecent assault. Police

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Speaker 2: carried out a search warrant on his unit at Circular

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Speaker 2: Key in Sydney. The Sydney Morning Herald has previously published

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Speaker 2: a lengthy investigation detailing multiple allegations of indecent assault. Several

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Speaker 2: men accused him of praying on them while he held

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Speaker 2: positions of power as a teacher and a broadcaster. He

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Speaker 2: has previously denied any wrongdoing. New South Wales Police Commissioner

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Speaker 2: Karen Webb said detectives had been working on the case

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Speaker 2: for months and it was complex and protracted. The former

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Speaker 2: two GB breakfast show host reigned for thirty five years.

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Speaker 2: He won two hundred and twenty six ratings survey. He

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Speaker 2: had enormous power within New South Wales and federal politics.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday he was taken away in a police car.

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Speaker 1: Turning to international news, now, Sean and US President Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden has authorized Ukraine to launch limited strikes into Russia

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Speaker 1: using US made long range missiles in really what is

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Speaker 1: a big policy shift. Before the end of his work,

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Speaker 1: Light House term in January.

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Speaker 2: Sure is that the Financial Times as a reporting a

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Speaker 2: move comes in response to the deployment of thousands of

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Speaker 2: North Korean troops to support Russia in its war against

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Speaker 2: Ukraine and after a barrage of new strikes by Moscow

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Speaker 2: and Ukrainian cities at the weekend. Today, Michael is he

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Speaker 2: won thousandth day of Moscow's full scale invasion of Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: and the US made long range missiles are likely to

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Speaker 2: be first used by Ukraine to target Russian and North

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Speaker 2: Korean forces in the Kers region of Russia. Mister Biden

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Speaker 2: has allowed Ukraine to use what they call Hi Mars,

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Speaker 2: the American High Mobility Artillery rocket system, to strike targets

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Speaker 2: inside Russia, but he's resisted allowing Kiev to launch strikes

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Speaker 2: within Russia using US made long range missiles known as

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Speaker 2: the Army Tactical Missile System. The fear has been that

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Speaker 2: that would escalate tensions with Moscow. Anyway, He's allowing it now.

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Speaker 1: Another one that I mentioned at the top of the show,

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Speaker 1: which I'm finding this is a fascinating story. Sean Rolls

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Speaker 1: Royce is in early stage talks with potential commercial customers

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Speaker 1: for its planned micro nuclear reactor, a technology that it

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Speaker 1: hopes will also provide power for space missions.

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Speaker 2: This has got Michael Thompson written all over it. It

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Speaker 2: is a great story. So director at Rolls Royce told

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Speaker 2: The Financial Times that the company is exploring opportunities to

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Speaker 2: deploy the reactor across data centers, mining and remote communities.

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Speaker 2: Rolls Royce but are known for their aircraft engines. I

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Speaker 2: would say also there are cars of years ago. They

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Speaker 2: want to capitalize on its nuclear expertise, the internal nuclear expertise,

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Speaker 2: and with global interest ins more reactors growing quickly, the

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Speaker 2: company believes there's a business case for micro reactors for

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Speaker 2: both terrestrial. Oh there's a word. I can't say it

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Speaker 2: for both terrestrial and space applications. Michael, I'm riting, I'm righting.

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Speaker 1: I'm putting it on the list along with prelimin terrestrial

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Speaker 1: restrial preliminary. Yeah, good, Please go on, let's see how

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Speaker 1: you go.

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Speaker 2: So compared with small modular reactors, which we know a

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Speaker 2: lot about in this country, they're seeing a lot of

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Speaker 2: demand for those small modular reactors from groups like Google

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Speaker 2: to deliberate low carbon electricity for data centers. Micro nuclear

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Speaker 2: actors use different technologies and have a much smaller power output.

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Speaker 2: Their compact size also makes them transportable, very very important.

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Speaker 2: Rolls Royce began work on the technology for a micro

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Speaker 2: reactor three and a half years ago. It joined forces

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Speaker 2: with the UK Space Agency in twenty twenty one to

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Speaker 2: study how nuclear power could be used as part of

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Speaker 2: space exploration. They're renting up those efforts.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned Rolls Rose cars there, Sean, Yes, and there's

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Speaker 1: really you're right like you said that the years ago

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Speaker 1: and I thought, no, there's still plenty of Rolls Royce around,

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Speaker 1: but there's really not that many sold. And so I

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Speaker 1: was just looking up some stats while you were talking,

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Speaker 1: and I mean these stats are probably at months old,

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Speaker 1: but there was I think sixty sold in one year

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Speaker 1: in Australia. In Australia, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know it's

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Speaker 1: in the dozens.

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Speaker 2: It's not many.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. You's still get a buzz, don't you whenever you

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Speaker 1: see one? Oh yeah, And you always just kind of

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Speaker 1: peer behind the steering wheel to see who's there, like

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Speaker 1: in the hope that it's going to be one of

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Speaker 1: those people that are renowned for driving, like it's going

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Speaker 1: to be John Laws, or it's going to be Carl

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Speaker 1: Sandaland's or one of those kind of ones, and typically

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Speaker 1: it's not which it's a bit of a down up,

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Speaker 1: you never know, not particularly hopeful anyway. Up next is

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Speaker 1: the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. You're speaking today with

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Broderick, and keep an eye on your playlist as

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Speaker 1: well because it around about midday today there is a

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Speaker 1: new episode of Ask Fear and Greed where we answer

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Speaker 1: listener questions and head along to Fear and Greed dot

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Speaker 1: com today you and sign up for the free weekly

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Speaker 1: newsletter which comes out tomorrow. Was a little bit on

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Speaker 1: the to do list. Thank you very much, Sean, Thank

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Speaker 1: you very much.

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Speaker 2: Michael.

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Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, the nineteenth of November twenty twenty four. Makes

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Speaker 1: you following the podcast and please join us online on LinkedIn, Instagram,

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Speaker 1: ex TikTok and Facebook. I'm Michael Thompson and that Fever

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Speaker 1: and Greed. Have a great day.