1 00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Approache production. 2 00:00:10,161 --> 00:00:14,281 Speaker 2: This episode discusses the abduction and murder of children, including 3 00:00:14,321 --> 00:00:18,081 Speaker 2: graphic details of the crimes and their investigation. It may 4 00:00:18,121 --> 00:00:27,321 Speaker 2: be distressing for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Welcome 5 00:00:27,321 --> 00:00:29,641 Speaker 2: to Real Crime with Adam Shand. I'm your host Adam Shand. 6 00:00:30,001 --> 00:00:33,601 Speaker 2: In October twenty twenty two, a convicted pedophile suspected of 7 00:00:33,601 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 2: abducting two girls in nineteen seventy three, died behind bars 8 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,161 Speaker 2: without revealing anything about the cold case. At the time 9 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 2: of his death, Errol George Radden was a key suspect 10 00:00:44,441 --> 00:00:47,921 Speaker 2: in the disappearance of Joanne Ratcliffe eleven and Kirsty Gordon, 11 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,761 Speaker 2: iour from South Australia's Adelaide Oval. On August twenty five, 12 00:00:51,881 --> 00:00:54,481 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three, twelve. 13 00:00:54,121 --> 00:00:57,241 Speaker 3: Thousand people were watching the football a man walked up 14 00:00:57,281 --> 00:00:59,761 Speaker 3: with two children. No one stopped him. 15 00:01:00,481 --> 00:01:02,761 Speaker 2: Both girls went to the toilet at three forty five 16 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:04,521 Speaker 2: pm that day and never return. 17 00:01:05,121 --> 00:01:06,841 Speaker 1: Their bodies have never been recovered. 18 00:01:07,441 --> 00:01:12,601 Speaker 2: It remains one of Australia's most haunting unsolved cases. No 19 00:01:12,721 --> 00:01:15,681 Speaker 2: on be for Redan was imprisoned in Queensland for indecently 20 00:01:15,721 --> 00:01:18,561 Speaker 2: dealing with a girl under the age of fourteen and 21 00:01:18,721 --> 00:01:22,721 Speaker 2: carnal knowledge and was kept in custody under an indefinite 22 00:01:22,761 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 2: detention order. Gridan has been placed on an indefinite detention order, 23 00:01:27,601 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 2: meaning he cannot be released without a successful High Court application. 24 00:01:33,161 --> 00:01:36,521 Speaker 2: He received no visitors or phone calls in jail for 25 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:37,801 Speaker 2: more than twenty years. 26 00:01:38,681 --> 00:01:41,801 Speaker 1: Did he take his secrets to the grave? Maybe not. 27 00:01:42,681 --> 00:01:45,241 Speaker 2: I was contacted this week by a former Queensland prison 28 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,361 Speaker 2: officer who claimed to have befriended Radden in jail. 29 00:01:49,001 --> 00:01:51,041 Speaker 1: I'm going to give him the pseudonym Ted to protect 30 00:01:51,041 --> 00:01:51,761 Speaker 1: his identity. 31 00:01:52,721 --> 00:01:56,041 Speaker 2: Ted says Errol Radden confessed that he had abducted and 32 00:01:56,161 --> 00:02:00,041 Speaker 2: murdered Radcliffe and Gordon, and Ted has finally decided to 33 00:02:00,081 --> 00:02:03,201 Speaker 2: share that story. And thank you for doing it, Ted, 34 00:02:05,121 --> 00:02:07,921 Speaker 2: Thank you, Adam, thank you for having me. You waited 35 00:02:07,961 --> 00:02:12,721 Speaker 2: a while to do this. Why good question? So at first, 36 00:02:12,801 --> 00:02:15,921 Speaker 2: when I was originally released from jail, I went to 37 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 2: the police with some information on some unrelated matters. It 38 00:02:20,361 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 2: was received very well by some police, and then I 39 00:02:23,441 --> 00:02:26,681 Speaker 2: had a conversation with another police officer in regards to 40 00:02:26,761 --> 00:02:31,481 Speaker 2: another matter, some information I'd received in prison, and I 41 00:02:31,641 --> 00:02:35,241 Speaker 2: was just disillusioned from this conversation with this police officer. 42 00:02:35,281 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 2: He seemed more interested in myself my relationship with this 43 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,521 Speaker 2: other prisoner, and I just lost sort of all hope 44 00:02:43,561 --> 00:02:46,201 Speaker 2: and thought, maybe this is my sign to get on 45 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,641 Speaker 2: with life. So I just pushed it aside. Yeah, and 46 00:02:50,081 --> 00:02:52,481 Speaker 2: you were a prison officer who ended up in jail, 47 00:02:52,921 --> 00:02:56,201 Speaker 2: So I guess that might have rung alarm bells for 48 00:02:56,361 --> 00:03:00,001 Speaker 2: police as well, that maybe you had some hidden agenda. 49 00:03:00,081 --> 00:03:02,081 Speaker 2: You had a fall from grace and you were there 50 00:03:02,161 --> 00:03:03,641 Speaker 2: was some hidden agenda involved. 51 00:03:04,601 --> 00:03:05,601 Speaker 1: Could be? Could be? 52 00:03:05,721 --> 00:03:09,041 Speaker 3: He seemed a genuine individual, He was interested in my 53 00:03:09,161 --> 00:03:12,561 Speaker 3: story me as a person very surprised that someone like 54 00:03:12,641 --> 00:03:16,201 Speaker 3: myself would end up in prison, and he just didn't 55 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,041 Speaker 3: take the information I was giving too serious. I was 56 00:03:19,081 --> 00:03:20,401 Speaker 3: a little disillusioned by that. 57 00:03:21,601 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 2: Okay, so let's talk about Rodan. But I want to 58 00:03:24,761 --> 00:03:27,441 Speaker 2: understand why you ended up in prison in the first place. 59 00:03:28,281 --> 00:03:31,881 Speaker 3: So there was a team of hackers, offshore hackers working 60 00:03:31,921 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 3: in Singapore an Asian crime syndicate, and they essentially were 61 00:03:37,241 --> 00:03:41,041 Speaker 3: hacking bank accounts, and my role was essentially receiving money 62 00:03:41,481 --> 00:03:44,841 Speaker 3: into the bank account, and I was to transfer that 63 00:03:45,001 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 3: money off overseas, and I keep a percentage of that money. 64 00:03:49,681 --> 00:03:51,841 Speaker 1: Right, So you're like a money mule or something they told. 65 00:03:51,721 --> 00:03:53,601 Speaker 3: It, correct, Yes, a money mule. 66 00:03:54,201 --> 00:03:55,121 Speaker 1: And how'd you get caught? 67 00:03:56,361 --> 00:03:59,281 Speaker 3: My partner was involved at the time as well. I 68 00:03:59,361 --> 00:04:03,561 Speaker 3: started doing it, she got involved as well. She was 69 00:04:03,601 --> 00:04:07,241 Speaker 3: initially caught by the bank. The bank suspected something was 70 00:04:07,281 --> 00:04:10,721 Speaker 3: going on. They passed information onto the federal police and 71 00:04:11,001 --> 00:04:13,481 Speaker 3: we had that knock on the door. Well, how was that? 72 00:04:15,001 --> 00:04:18,521 Speaker 3: Very scary? Very scary, very daunting in a position that 73 00:04:18,721 --> 00:04:22,001 Speaker 3: you know, I'm not used to being in. Everything came 74 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 3: sort of falling down on us that. 75 00:04:23,961 --> 00:04:28,081 Speaker 2: Day, right, because you had no history of criminal activity, 76 00:04:28,201 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 2: no history of deceit or dishonesty. 77 00:04:30,721 --> 00:04:33,081 Speaker 3: That's correct, that's correct, never been in. 78 00:04:33,041 --> 00:04:35,081 Speaker 1: Trouble with the law at all, and. 79 00:04:35,041 --> 00:04:37,801 Speaker 3: Since that offense, had never been in trouble again. 80 00:04:38,161 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: So how did you end up in the prison system 81 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:40,561 Speaker 1: in the first place? 82 00:04:40,561 --> 00:04:44,721 Speaker 3: As an officer, it was something I've always been interested in. 83 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 3: Once I left school, I studied, did some time with 84 00:04:48,281 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 3: the army. I was always going backwards and fords, Should 85 00:04:51,761 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 3: I join the army, Should I be a correctional officer? 86 00:04:54,841 --> 00:04:58,961 Speaker 3: Always had an interest in people, in particular criminals, why 87 00:04:59,041 --> 00:05:03,041 Speaker 3: they do what they do? That always interested me. So 88 00:05:03,121 --> 00:05:04,961 Speaker 3: I went down the track of being a prison off 89 00:05:05,361 --> 00:05:07,801 Speaker 3: I was young, thought I could change the world, help 90 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,081 Speaker 3: people do good and get them on the right track. 91 00:05:11,401 --> 00:05:11,641 Speaker 1: Right. 92 00:05:12,001 --> 00:05:15,081 Speaker 2: Do you think that that experience changed you as well? 93 00:05:15,121 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 2: I mean, do you think that made you more susceptible 94 00:05:17,081 --> 00:05:17,921 Speaker 2: to doing what you did? 95 00:05:18,801 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 3: I don't think it changed me to do what I did. 96 00:05:22,481 --> 00:05:25,241 Speaker 3: When I was arrested, the police asked me that did 97 00:05:25,281 --> 00:05:29,521 Speaker 3: I make that leap due to a connection in the prison. 98 00:05:29,921 --> 00:05:34,001 Speaker 3: It was completely unrelated. I was, however, disillusioned with the job. 99 00:05:34,041 --> 00:05:37,641 Speaker 3: It wasn't what I expected. I was looking for a career. Yeah, 100 00:05:37,641 --> 00:05:39,681 Speaker 3: I just wanted to help people. And it's a whole 101 00:05:39,681 --> 00:05:44,361 Speaker 3: lot of sitting there watching inmates like a glorified babysitter essentially. 102 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,281 Speaker 2: Right, So you fourth and Grace, you get sentenced to 103 00:05:49,401 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 2: five months jail? 104 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:51,681 Speaker 1: Which jail were you sent to? 105 00:05:52,561 --> 00:05:55,801 Speaker 3: I was sent to Wolston Correctional Center here in Brisbane. 106 00:05:55,841 --> 00:06:00,001 Speaker 3: It's a protection prison. Due to being a former prison officer, 107 00:06:00,041 --> 00:06:02,841 Speaker 3: I had to go into protection And. 108 00:06:02,841 --> 00:06:04,721 Speaker 1: What was that like? What was the atmosphere? 109 00:06:06,281 --> 00:06:09,681 Speaker 3: It was interesting. I remember the conversation when I first 110 00:06:09,721 --> 00:06:13,481 Speaker 3: got sent to the prison. The prison officer took me 111 00:06:13,521 --> 00:06:15,681 Speaker 3: off to a side room and he talked to me. 112 00:06:15,761 --> 00:06:18,161 Speaker 3: He said, you're gonna get hit. Are you going to 113 00:06:18,201 --> 00:06:20,401 Speaker 3: get things thrown at you? It's going to be horrible. 114 00:06:20,761 --> 00:06:23,681 Speaker 3: But no, I never had any incidences with any inmates. 115 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 3: Prison for me was essentially like being back in school. 116 00:06:27,681 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 3: It all came down to personality. Obviously. If you go 117 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,161 Speaker 3: into prison and you're big mouthing, if you think you're 118 00:06:34,201 --> 00:06:36,681 Speaker 3: the big guy, you're going to bring attention to yourself. 119 00:06:36,721 --> 00:06:39,361 Speaker 3: So I just went in. I was never gonna lie 120 00:06:39,361 --> 00:06:42,121 Speaker 3: about who I was. I thought that would be stupid 121 00:06:42,161 --> 00:06:45,041 Speaker 3: because it was on the news, and I was just 122 00:06:45,041 --> 00:06:46,841 Speaker 3: going to be truthful. If people were going to ask 123 00:06:47,081 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 3: was I a form officer, I was going to be 124 00:06:48,921 --> 00:06:49,641 Speaker 3: open about that. 125 00:06:50,241 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: I know in Victoria they call it going from the 126 00:06:52,121 --> 00:06:57,481 Speaker 2: blue to the green. Yes, and it's a dangerous journey exactly. 127 00:06:57,841 --> 00:07:00,841 Speaker 1: And you found yourself having to be put in a 128 00:07:00,921 --> 00:07:01,921 Speaker 1: protection unit. 129 00:07:02,921 --> 00:07:06,761 Speaker 3: Yes, that's right. So within the Detection prison there was 130 00:07:06,801 --> 00:07:10,721 Speaker 3: a special unit called S seven, and that was essentially 131 00:07:10,841 --> 00:07:13,881 Speaker 3: high profile prisoners. A few years ago we had doctor 132 00:07:13,961 --> 00:07:18,601 Speaker 3: Jane Patel, a doctor who performed a legal surgeries. There 133 00:07:18,721 --> 00:07:22,281 Speaker 3: was also a terrorist I believe someone accused of being 134 00:07:22,281 --> 00:07:25,321 Speaker 3: a terrorist was placed in there. You had politicians, you 135 00:07:25,401 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 3: had police officers. There was about four police officers in there, 136 00:07:29,241 --> 00:07:32,841 Speaker 3: and there was two other prison officers in there as well, and. 137 00:07:33,521 --> 00:07:36,481 Speaker 1: There was Errol Rdam. What do you rememberbout him when 138 00:07:36,481 --> 00:07:37,641 Speaker 1: you first saw him? 139 00:07:38,081 --> 00:07:41,081 Speaker 3: Errol, he was essentially the elephant in the room. He 140 00:07:41,281 --> 00:07:45,201 Speaker 3: was this guy who sat by himself. He didn't mix, 141 00:07:45,361 --> 00:07:48,881 Speaker 3: didn't talk to anyone, didn't engage in any conversation. My 142 00:07:49,001 --> 00:07:52,281 Speaker 3: memory of him initially was this old man, gentleman who 143 00:07:52,401 --> 00:07:54,481 Speaker 3: sat on the seat in front of the TV all 144 00:07:54,561 --> 00:07:57,481 Speaker 3: day long by himself, didn't move until we were locked 145 00:07:57,521 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 3: away at nighttime. 146 00:07:58,921 --> 00:08:01,121 Speaker 2: And he wouldn't interact with anybody. 147 00:08:01,601 --> 00:08:04,601 Speaker 3: No, no, no, he wouldn't. He'd sit there by himself. 148 00:08:04,681 --> 00:08:10,361 Speaker 3: And that's what got my curiosity stoked with him. I 149 00:08:10,401 --> 00:08:13,521 Speaker 3: was curious, who is this guy? And the reply from 150 00:08:13,601 --> 00:08:18,601 Speaker 3: other inmates was, don't talk to him. He's a bad guy. 151 00:08:19,121 --> 00:08:21,681 Speaker 1: A prolific pedophile, as they would. 152 00:08:21,481 --> 00:08:25,361 Speaker 3: Have known exactly exactly. So obviously there was a lot 153 00:08:25,401 --> 00:08:29,001 Speaker 3: of pedophiles in the unit, some serious pedophiles that had 154 00:08:29,041 --> 00:08:33,761 Speaker 3: done horrible things, and even those individuals wouldn't interact with 155 00:08:33,841 --> 00:08:35,921 Speaker 3: the type of person or a Radan was. 156 00:08:36,961 --> 00:08:38,881 Speaker 2: Really I would have thought they would have stuck together 157 00:08:39,001 --> 00:08:40,681 Speaker 2: birds of a feather, as you say, you know. 158 00:08:41,561 --> 00:08:45,161 Speaker 3: No, no, no, it's very interesting. I did a lot 159 00:08:45,161 --> 00:08:49,881 Speaker 3: of conversating with some of these pedophiles in their sex offenders. 160 00:08:50,281 --> 00:08:53,081 Speaker 3: I've always been a curious person. I want to know, like, 161 00:08:53,201 --> 00:08:55,721 Speaker 3: why did you do that? Obviously you couldn't have those 162 00:08:55,761 --> 00:08:58,921 Speaker 3: conversations with everyone, but there are a couple that I 163 00:08:58,961 --> 00:09:02,281 Speaker 3: was able to sit down and go why why did 164 00:09:02,321 --> 00:09:05,721 Speaker 3: you do that? And they gave me some answers that 165 00:09:05,841 --> 00:09:09,121 Speaker 3: they felt made sense to them. Obviously not to people 166 00:09:09,161 --> 00:09:14,561 Speaker 3: like ourselves, but yeah, no, it's interesting. There's Errol Radan 167 00:09:14,761 --> 00:09:18,641 Speaker 3: is a type of sex offender which is just completely 168 00:09:18,681 --> 00:09:22,761 Speaker 3: on a different level to your general sex offender that 169 00:09:22,801 --> 00:09:24,921 Speaker 3: we see in the media all the time. 170 00:09:26,361 --> 00:09:30,001 Speaker 2: You've obviously got the gift of rapport ted because you 171 00:09:30,001 --> 00:09:31,561 Speaker 2: were able to talk to these guys and a lot 172 00:09:31,561 --> 00:09:33,441 Speaker 2: of people wouldn't want to talk to them, but you 173 00:09:33,561 --> 00:09:36,201 Speaker 2: filled your time with that, and I guess you're probably 174 00:09:36,201 --> 00:09:38,641 Speaker 2: getting a bit of a reputation as someone who can 175 00:09:39,441 --> 00:09:42,521 Speaker 2: listen without judgment and spend time with these guys. 176 00:09:42,961 --> 00:09:46,081 Speaker 3: Correct. I mean, obviously a lot of the stuff these 177 00:09:46,081 --> 00:09:49,201 Speaker 3: people came to me with. Inside, I was boiling that 178 00:09:49,321 --> 00:09:52,521 Speaker 3: you need to be composed and if it made my 179 00:09:52,601 --> 00:09:54,561 Speaker 3: time easier. I had a lot of time on my hands. 180 00:09:54,601 --> 00:09:56,681 Speaker 3: I just wanted my time to go smoothly. So I 181 00:09:56,721 --> 00:09:59,241 Speaker 3: was more than happy to be an here. People would 182 00:09:59,241 --> 00:10:02,401 Speaker 3: come to you with help with applications. They knew I 183 00:10:02,441 --> 00:10:04,521 Speaker 3: was a former prison officer, so they would ask, how 184 00:10:04,561 --> 00:10:06,721 Speaker 3: do I feel that swarm out? Can you give me 185 00:10:06,761 --> 00:10:08,521 Speaker 3: advice on the parole board, etc. 186 00:10:09,561 --> 00:10:11,881 Speaker 2: But Radan's off by himself. He's a tough nut to 187 00:10:11,921 --> 00:10:15,161 Speaker 2: crack exactly. But you decide that you're going to talk 188 00:10:15,201 --> 00:10:18,001 Speaker 2: to him. Were you aware at that time that he 189 00:10:18,121 --> 00:10:21,601 Speaker 2: was a suspect in the nineteen seventy three abduction of 190 00:10:21,761 --> 00:10:23,641 Speaker 2: Kirsty Gordon and Joan Ratcliffe. 191 00:10:24,241 --> 00:10:25,081 Speaker 1: No, not at all. 192 00:10:25,201 --> 00:10:29,081 Speaker 3: I didn't know anything about the Adelaide Oval abduction the girls. 193 00:10:29,601 --> 00:10:32,561 Speaker 3: The only case in regard to Adelaide that I'd heard 194 00:10:32,561 --> 00:10:34,681 Speaker 3: of at the time would have been the Beaumont Kids, 195 00:10:35,001 --> 00:10:38,241 Speaker 3: which you see on TV in the media every now 196 00:10:38,241 --> 00:10:38,681 Speaker 3: and then. 197 00:10:38,921 --> 00:10:41,681 Speaker 2: So you start talking to him, how did the conversation progress? 198 00:10:41,721 --> 00:10:44,641 Speaker 2: I mean, this is a guy that doesn't need company, 199 00:10:44,681 --> 00:10:47,081 Speaker 2: he doesn't want it. He's got lots of secrets. How 200 00:10:47,081 --> 00:10:49,241 Speaker 2: did you go about cracking the facade? 201 00:10:50,401 --> 00:10:52,681 Speaker 3: I basically asked him if he knew how to play chess. 202 00:10:52,801 --> 00:10:55,161 Speaker 3: They had chess boards out on these benches that the 203 00:10:55,161 --> 00:10:58,321 Speaker 3: prisoners sat on, and I approached him asking if he 204 00:10:58,361 --> 00:11:01,041 Speaker 3: knew how to play chess, which he said he did, 205 00:11:01,081 --> 00:11:03,161 Speaker 3: and I asked if he could show me how to 206 00:11:03,201 --> 00:11:05,721 Speaker 3: play chess. And that's where went from there. 207 00:11:06,401 --> 00:11:09,161 Speaker 1: Okay, and over how long did this relationship develop? 208 00:11:11,521 --> 00:11:16,361 Speaker 3: We would have converse for about three months until he 209 00:11:16,561 --> 00:11:20,241 Speaker 3: was moved into another area of the prison because. 210 00:11:19,961 --> 00:11:21,281 Speaker 2: He was under as I said in the link, he 211 00:11:21,361 --> 00:11:25,881 Speaker 2: was under this indefinite custody order and I think he'd 212 00:11:25,881 --> 00:11:28,201 Speaker 2: gone to the High Court to get it overturned and lost. 213 00:11:28,641 --> 00:11:31,481 Speaker 2: So he was now facing the rest of his life 214 00:11:31,561 --> 00:11:34,161 Speaker 2: in prison. What year is this, by the way, it 215 00:11:34,201 --> 00:11:34,601 Speaker 2: would have. 216 00:11:34,561 --> 00:11:37,281 Speaker 3: Been two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine. 217 00:11:37,481 --> 00:11:40,441 Speaker 2: Right, so he had another fourteen years of life left 218 00:11:41,121 --> 00:11:45,601 Speaker 2: in jail. And what do you say about his conditions 219 00:11:45,641 --> 00:11:48,241 Speaker 2: in there? What was the general tenor of the conversation. 220 00:11:49,481 --> 00:11:53,041 Speaker 3: He was someone who wasn't phased. I don't know if 221 00:11:53,081 --> 00:11:56,201 Speaker 3: he had just accepted the predicament that he was in. 222 00:11:56,841 --> 00:12:00,401 Speaker 3: I don't know if he was an old school, hardened criminal, 223 00:12:00,841 --> 00:12:04,001 Speaker 3: he'd done a lot of time in prison, a career criminal. 224 00:12:04,201 --> 00:12:07,481 Speaker 3: It's very rare to find career criminals in prison these days. 225 00:12:07,521 --> 00:12:09,921 Speaker 3: He was definitely one of them. So he was just 226 00:12:10,001 --> 00:12:12,201 Speaker 3: sort of accepting of the situation. 227 00:12:11,881 --> 00:12:12,481 Speaker 1: He was in. 228 00:12:12,681 --> 00:12:16,561 Speaker 3: He wasn't a complainer. He didn't really complain about prison 229 00:12:16,641 --> 00:12:20,121 Speaker 3: politics or get mixed up in rumors and things like that. 230 00:12:20,361 --> 00:12:21,881 Speaker 3: He was just very matter of fact. 231 00:12:22,841 --> 00:12:25,001 Speaker 2: This is a difficult question, but did you find yourself 232 00:12:25,121 --> 00:12:30,481 Speaker 2: enjoying his company at all? 233 00:12:30,681 --> 00:12:33,441 Speaker 3: Yes, in a way, because it makes time go quicker. 234 00:12:33,921 --> 00:12:36,921 Speaker 3: There are a couple other inmates I got to know 235 00:12:37,201 --> 00:12:40,761 Speaker 3: very well, people that I wouldn't associate with on the outside. 236 00:12:41,121 --> 00:12:43,841 Speaker 3: But all I was concerned with is making my time 237 00:12:43,881 --> 00:12:47,321 Speaker 3: go quick and making it be uneventful. 238 00:12:47,721 --> 00:12:52,601 Speaker 1: And he had unlimited time in there, definitely, so for him, 239 00:12:52,641 --> 00:12:56,121 Speaker 1: I guess he could pass some time with a pleasant 240 00:12:56,161 --> 00:12:58,801 Speaker 1: person who wasn't you weren't asking him about what his 241 00:12:58,841 --> 00:12:59,561 Speaker 1: offenses were. 242 00:12:59,601 --> 00:13:03,201 Speaker 3: I presume no, not initially. That's something you don't do 243 00:13:03,721 --> 00:13:06,601 Speaker 3: at some prisoner will offer it up to you. I 244 00:13:06,641 --> 00:13:09,761 Speaker 3: think he liked my company. Being a lot younger, I 245 00:13:09,801 --> 00:13:11,561 Speaker 3: don't know if he looked at me as like a 246 00:13:11,601 --> 00:13:16,241 Speaker 3: sun figure. He was interested in my offenses because he 247 00:13:16,281 --> 00:13:19,481 Speaker 3: had read the paper, saw the news story on TV, 248 00:13:19,641 --> 00:13:21,281 Speaker 3: so he was interested in that. I guess it was 249 00:13:21,321 --> 00:13:25,281 Speaker 3: a crime that he knew nothing about and was just 250 00:13:25,361 --> 00:13:28,241 Speaker 3: sort of a little bit amazed that you could do 251 00:13:28,361 --> 00:13:30,841 Speaker 3: that sort of thing. So he was interested in my 252 00:13:30,961 --> 00:13:34,201 Speaker 3: story about why was I a prison office, of why 253 00:13:34,201 --> 00:13:36,921 Speaker 3: would I do that? But yeah, he was definitely a 254 00:13:37,121 --> 00:13:38,361 Speaker 3: pleasant old. 255 00:13:38,121 --> 00:13:38,641 Speaker 1: Man to me. 256 00:13:39,641 --> 00:13:41,921 Speaker 2: Yet you could see there was a very dark side 257 00:13:41,961 --> 00:13:46,481 Speaker 2: to him, which became obvious later. You shared details of 258 00:13:46,561 --> 00:13:49,481 Speaker 2: why you were there, I presume that opens the gate 259 00:13:49,561 --> 00:13:51,401 Speaker 2: for you to ask why he was there. 260 00:13:52,641 --> 00:13:56,641 Speaker 3: Correct, So I just asked general questions, how long have 261 00:13:56,761 --> 00:14:00,281 Speaker 3: you been prison before? Obviously at the time, I didn't 262 00:14:00,321 --> 00:14:03,841 Speaker 3: know when he was sentenced the type of crimes he'd done. 263 00:14:04,121 --> 00:14:06,761 Speaker 3: I assumed they were sexual. Being in the unit he 264 00:14:06,881 --> 00:14:09,521 Speaker 3: was in. Some people in the units when they said 265 00:14:09,601 --> 00:14:12,281 Speaker 3: keep away from him, he's a killer, so I thought 266 00:14:12,281 --> 00:14:16,641 Speaker 3: maybe he was a killer. So yeah, I didn't really 267 00:14:16,801 --> 00:14:19,081 Speaker 3: prod I just allowed him to speak. 268 00:14:19,801 --> 00:14:23,601 Speaker 2: He was certainly a convicted pedophile, but he'd never been 269 00:14:23,641 --> 00:14:26,641 Speaker 2: convicted of any murders. I guess it leads me to 270 00:14:26,681 --> 00:14:28,681 Speaker 2: think that he might have had conversations with other or 271 00:14:28,841 --> 00:14:35,041 Speaker 2: was reputed to have killed victims. 272 00:14:33,561 --> 00:14:37,481 Speaker 3: Definitely, And that's the vibe I got from the other prisoners, 273 00:14:37,721 --> 00:14:41,121 Speaker 3: the other sax offenders who didn't associate with him. I 274 00:14:41,161 --> 00:14:46,121 Speaker 3: think they felt this guy isn't a child lover in 275 00:14:46,161 --> 00:14:50,921 Speaker 3: their terms, this guy is a child destroyer. He's not 276 00:14:51,041 --> 00:14:51,841 Speaker 3: one of us. 277 00:14:52,521 --> 00:14:53,601 Speaker 1: There is a difference, isn't there. 278 00:14:53,641 --> 00:14:55,561 Speaker 2: I know it's uncomfortable for listeners, but I mean there 279 00:14:55,601 --> 00:14:59,721 Speaker 2: are pedophiles literally is I love children, but there are 280 00:14:59,761 --> 00:15:03,561 Speaker 2: also child killers and we saw that phenomenon a couple 281 00:15:03,521 --> 00:15:05,721 Speaker 2: of times in South Australia with the Bone My Children. 282 00:15:06,161 --> 00:15:09,681 Speaker 2: The aim was most probably not sexual, but more to 283 00:15:09,761 --> 00:15:13,761 Speaker 2: satisfy a sadistic pleasure about killing children, and that seems 284 00:15:13,761 --> 00:15:17,481 Speaker 2: to have been the fate of those poor girls, Christy 285 00:15:17,521 --> 00:15:18,481 Speaker 2: Gordon and John Ratcliff. 286 00:15:18,521 --> 00:15:20,161 Speaker 1: He disappeared from Adelaide. 287 00:15:19,721 --> 00:15:22,961 Speaker 2: Oval and so you start to wind around to what 288 00:15:23,121 --> 00:15:26,881 Speaker 2: he did. Can you remember the day and the setting 289 00:15:27,241 --> 00:15:28,721 Speaker 2: and why he opened up to you. 290 00:15:29,881 --> 00:15:33,081 Speaker 3: Yes, it was leading up to Christmas where there was 291 00:15:33,161 --> 00:15:38,041 Speaker 3: just a it was just a nice relaxing everyone's a 292 00:15:38,041 --> 00:15:41,841 Speaker 3: little bit happier leading into Christmas time because there's families coming. 293 00:15:41,921 --> 00:15:45,041 Speaker 3: Some inmates don't see families for quite some time, they 294 00:15:45,081 --> 00:15:47,441 Speaker 3: might have to travel in a state. So everyone was 295 00:15:47,481 --> 00:15:50,241 Speaker 3: a little bit more joyous and relaxed. Not that that 296 00:15:50,321 --> 00:15:54,001 Speaker 3: really affected ravand he's in his own world, but certainly 297 00:15:54,481 --> 00:15:57,521 Speaker 3: sort of prompted me to, you know, prompt him. Moore 298 00:15:57,641 --> 00:16:00,881 Speaker 3: sort of stoke him a bit with some harder questions 299 00:16:01,761 --> 00:16:06,561 Speaker 3: and what happened next And I asked him how long 300 00:16:06,561 --> 00:16:09,641 Speaker 3: you've been in jail, for which he replied for a 301 00:16:09,681 --> 00:16:13,121 Speaker 3: long time. He would always say to me, you need 302 00:16:13,201 --> 00:16:16,241 Speaker 3: to make sure you don't get messed up with bad people, 303 00:16:16,801 --> 00:16:19,801 Speaker 3: sort of like a doting dad sort of, you know, 304 00:16:20,001 --> 00:16:22,121 Speaker 3: don't go hang out with the bad kids. It'll rub 305 00:16:22,161 --> 00:16:24,321 Speaker 3: off on you. He always tried to push that onto me. 306 00:16:25,001 --> 00:16:28,761 Speaker 3: And one day we were sitting there and he just 307 00:16:28,801 --> 00:16:31,681 Speaker 3: basically said to me, do you know about the girls 308 00:16:31,721 --> 00:16:34,721 Speaker 3: at the Adelaide Oval? And I said no. I said, 309 00:16:34,801 --> 00:16:37,161 Speaker 3: is this down in Adelaide? And he said yes. And 310 00:16:37,241 --> 00:16:39,721 Speaker 3: I said, the only crime I know that I have 311 00:16:39,881 --> 00:16:43,681 Speaker 3: some knowledge of would be the Beaumont kids. And when 312 00:16:43,681 --> 00:16:46,921 Speaker 3: I said that, he sort of smirked and sort of 313 00:16:47,201 --> 00:16:50,961 Speaker 3: nodded his heads and he goes, well, I did the 314 00:16:51,001 --> 00:16:51,881 Speaker 3: girls at the. 315 00:16:51,841 --> 00:16:54,361 Speaker 1: Oval shocking moment. 316 00:16:55,361 --> 00:16:57,201 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was a little bit stunned, because where do 317 00:16:57,241 --> 00:17:00,121 Speaker 3: you go from there. That's not a normal conversation you'd 318 00:17:00,161 --> 00:17:01,161 Speaker 3: have with someone. 319 00:17:02,761 --> 00:17:06,801 Speaker 2: And you are shocked. But I guess you're also naturally 320 00:17:06,961 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 2: more curious. You didn't know about this offense in the 321 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,481 Speaker 2: first place. No, so did you fall up in any 322 00:17:12,561 --> 00:17:14,201 Speaker 2: questions with him? 323 00:17:14,761 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 3: I was interested, definitely interested, but not knowing much about 324 00:17:18,481 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 3: the Adelaide Oval inductions at the time. I didn't have 325 00:17:21,761 --> 00:17:24,801 Speaker 3: much to ask. I wanted to know more, but you 326 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:29,721 Speaker 3: also have to be careful. Prisoners are extremely paranoid, and 327 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:34,561 Speaker 3: if you're sitting there taking notes and questioning, they start 328 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 3: to wonder what are you doing that. I reassured Errol 329 00:17:38,521 --> 00:17:40,761 Speaker 3: that I had a release date, I didn't have to 330 00:17:40,761 --> 00:17:44,321 Speaker 3: apply for parole, so I it was in a situation 331 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:46,881 Speaker 3: where I'm an inmate trying to get information to get 332 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:48,041 Speaker 3: out of jail early. 333 00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 2: Right, And so of course you learn later on that 334 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 2: these two girls are Jaranne Radcliffe he was eleven, and 335 00:17:56,441 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 2: Kurcy Gordon, who was four. Did he talk about the 336 00:18:00,321 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 2: individuals at all or any other information like that? 337 00:18:04,281 --> 00:18:07,120 Speaker 3: He did He's said he didn't do. I know he 338 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,001 Speaker 3: didn't do anything with the older girl. With Joanne, he 339 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,201 Speaker 3: said she was trouble, but he did. With the smaller girl. 340 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 1: He sexually assaulted her, yes, but. 341 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 3: He didn't do anything with the older girl. I don't 342 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 3: know why. He just said she was trouble. 343 00:18:23,481 --> 00:18:26,281 Speaker 2: So you're trying to retain your poker face here as 344 00:18:26,281 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 2: he's just told you that he's had sex with a 345 00:18:28,721 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 2: four year old and probably murdered an eleven year old 346 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,081 Speaker 2: and disposed of both of them. 347 00:18:33,721 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 3: Correct prisoners in there that say things like that, the 348 00:18:37,801 --> 00:18:40,521 Speaker 3: ones that do, like in Arrol's case, you just have 349 00:18:40,681 --> 00:18:43,521 Speaker 3: to sit there and put your poke face on, like 350 00:18:43,561 --> 00:18:45,801 Speaker 3: you said, and pretend it doesn't affect you. 351 00:18:46,721 --> 00:18:47,801 Speaker 1: And how did it affect you? 352 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 2: I mean, sometimes prisoners will someone like you who's not 353 00:18:51,721 --> 00:18:53,801 Speaker 2: a hardened criminal or anything. They will try to shock 354 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,921 Speaker 2: them with revelations like this. I've heard of other confessions 355 00:18:57,561 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 2: and there's always a bit of doubt about the motive 356 00:18:59,681 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 2: behind the confession. 357 00:19:01,481 --> 00:19:04,321 Speaker 3: Definitely, definitely. I remember at the time, I went back 358 00:19:04,321 --> 00:19:08,441 Speaker 3: to the Soul that night and I just thought about 359 00:19:08,481 --> 00:19:10,081 Speaker 3: my son. My son was two and a half at 360 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 3: the time, so I just kept thinking of him, and 361 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 3: it was about three nights later in my soul, I 362 00:19:17,321 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 3: sort of broke a bit of a nighttime thinking of 363 00:19:20,001 --> 00:19:23,801 Speaker 3: it and got really emotional, and I sort of put 364 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 3: it away until now. 365 00:19:28,041 --> 00:19:33,801 Speaker 2: Yes, because he made a very shocking graphic addition to 366 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:34,561 Speaker 2: this information. 367 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 4: Ted, which is not his real name, told me graphic 368 00:19:38,521 --> 00:19:41,681 Speaker 4: information about what Errol Radan says he did to these 369 00:19:41,721 --> 00:19:45,561 Speaker 4: two girls. It's graphic and appalling, and we feel there's 370 00:19:45,561 --> 00:19:48,681 Speaker 4: nothing to be gained from giving the description of what 371 00:19:48,761 --> 00:19:50,761 Speaker 4: Ted allegers was told to him. 372 00:19:52,321 --> 00:19:55,401 Speaker 1: Wow, that's this guy is an absolute even to conceive 373 00:19:55,481 --> 00:19:57,721 Speaker 1: of that and to tell someone that is a monstrous 374 00:19:57,761 --> 00:19:59,721 Speaker 1: thing to say, let alone. 375 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,801 Speaker 3: Do exactly, how do you even come up with something 376 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,041 Speaker 3: like that? That just doesn't even answer your head at 377 00:20:05,201 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 3: something a normal person does not think about. And I 378 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 3: can still see his face and when he said it, 379 00:20:11,201 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 3: it was so matter of fact, like asking would you 380 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,441 Speaker 3: like a cup of tea? It was scary. 381 00:20:18,481 --> 00:20:21,561 Speaker 2: Did that deter you from asking further questions? 382 00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:25,521 Speaker 3: It put a holt to that conversation and we went 383 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:27,721 Speaker 3: back to just normal conversation. 384 00:20:29,001 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 2: I was just but you kept associating with him for 385 00:20:31,921 --> 00:20:33,921 Speaker 2: some time after that correct. 386 00:20:34,041 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 3: Yes, I didn't want him thinking something was up. If 387 00:20:36,961 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 3: I was to cease, he would know that I was 388 00:20:40,201 --> 00:20:43,521 Speaker 3: offended by that and could be a threat. So yeah, 389 00:20:43,681 --> 00:20:48,721 Speaker 3: I continued the charade of everything's okay, or let's play chess, 390 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 3: let's play cribbage. 391 00:20:51,201 --> 00:20:53,041 Speaker 1: Now, did you believe him? 392 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 2: I mean, you obviously dealt with enough people in prison 393 00:20:55,801 --> 00:20:57,881 Speaker 2: to know the types of personalities and how they can 394 00:20:57,921 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 2: act out. 395 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,721 Speaker 1: Did you believe him? 396 00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:04,481 Speaker 3: I could never say one hundred percent because I wasn't 397 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 3: with him on the day at the oval, but I 398 00:21:07,281 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 3: would say ninety nine percent. There was no reason for 399 00:21:11,281 --> 00:21:14,481 Speaker 3: him to lie. As we said. He was in prison 400 00:21:14,681 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 3: at the Queen's pleasure. He was not going anywhere. He 401 00:21:17,961 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 3: had nothing to lose. He liked me, He knew I 402 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,921 Speaker 3: was being released after five months. I couldn't get any 403 00:21:27,001 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 3: benefit out of knowing that information. The way he said it, 404 00:21:30,961 --> 00:21:34,041 Speaker 3: I believed him one hundred ninety nine percent. 405 00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:37,961 Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, there's certainly some logic to all that he's 406 00:21:38,001 --> 00:21:41,801 Speaker 2: never coming out of jail anyway. But it's remarkable how 407 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 2: these people hang on to these dark secrets. Because he 408 00:21:45,921 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 2: was interviewed subsequent to your conversation with him, and he 409 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 2: wouldn't give up anything, He wouldn't say anything. 410 00:21:52,801 --> 00:21:55,360 Speaker 1: How do you feel now the fact that he's gone 411 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:56,041 Speaker 1: to his grave. 412 00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:57,641 Speaker 2: I'm sorry to say this to you, but he's gone 413 00:21:57,681 --> 00:22:00,360 Speaker 2: to his grave, and you waited until after he was 414 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 2: dead to talk about this. 415 00:22:03,681 --> 00:22:07,561 Speaker 3: It is tough that there's resolution for the case and 416 00:22:07,721 --> 00:22:12,121 Speaker 3: the family haven't got answers. I feel though that if 417 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,481 Speaker 3: I had gone to the police at the time, maybe 418 00:22:15,521 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 3: I would have been looked down on as you're just 419 00:22:17,721 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 3: a criminal yourself. Why should we believe you. You're a 420 00:22:20,921 --> 00:22:25,401 Speaker 3: bad guy too. That I wouldn't be believed. It was 421 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 3: just something really horrific. I just didn't know what to 422 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,561 Speaker 3: do with. I would have eventually told police back then 423 00:22:32,961 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 3: just sat. One interaction that I had with another police 424 00:22:35,761 --> 00:22:38,561 Speaker 3: officer disillusioned me and I just took that this is 425 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,041 Speaker 3: my sign to put this in the past and get 426 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:42,041 Speaker 3: on with your life. 427 00:22:42,521 --> 00:22:43,361 Speaker 1: And that's true. 428 00:22:43,481 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 2: And the point you make about prisoners not being believed 429 00:22:46,201 --> 00:22:49,401 Speaker 2: is very true. I've been through this with Lucille Butterworth 430 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 2: in Tasmania, who was murdered by Jeffrey Charles Hunt back 431 00:22:52,441 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty nine, and he confessed numerous times in 432 00:22:55,761 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 2: jail and when there was finally an inquest, those prisoners 433 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 2: were called and they weren't believed. And I've subsequently found 434 00:23:04,481 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 2: other prison and who he also can this guy like 435 00:23:06,761 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 2: to confess? This is a jail house phenomenon, that's for sure, 436 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,641 Speaker 2: And people do fear not being believed, and they hang 437 00:23:14,681 --> 00:23:17,241 Speaker 2: on to things exactly the way you did for fear 438 00:23:17,281 --> 00:23:18,121 Speaker 2: of not being believed. 439 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,721 Speaker 3: Absolutely, absolutely, there is a lot of information in prisons. 440 00:23:23,001 --> 00:23:26,801 Speaker 3: There is somewhat of a code where prisoners will open 441 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 3: up to others and that's expected to be kept in house. 442 00:23:32,561 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 3: I remember being a prison officer at the time thinking 443 00:23:35,001 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 3: we're the ones that own this unit. We run the unit, 444 00:23:38,521 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 3: but the reality is the inmates actually own the unit. 445 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,761 Speaker 3: There's a lot going on that the prison officers don't 446 00:23:44,761 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 3: know about. It was a real big guy opener seeing 447 00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:50,521 Speaker 3: some things, hearing prisoners and prisoners showing me this is 448 00:23:50,561 --> 00:23:53,241 Speaker 3: our secrets, this is all the stuff you missed when 449 00:23:53,281 --> 00:23:56,360 Speaker 3: you're an officer doing your searchers. They're very open to me, 450 00:23:56,521 --> 00:23:59,521 Speaker 3: and yeah, there's a lot of information there. There definitely 451 00:23:59,561 --> 00:24:01,521 Speaker 3: are inmates that would lie. 452 00:24:01,681 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 1: I had heard. 453 00:24:02,481 --> 00:24:07,401 Speaker 3: Stories of prisoners doing long, long time, many years over 454 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:12,321 Speaker 3: false evidence given by prisoners, So that was another thing 455 00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 3: that was always hanging overhead. You never never give false 456 00:24:15,681 --> 00:24:17,641 Speaker 3: information out as a prisoner. 457 00:24:17,961 --> 00:24:19,401 Speaker 1: It can come back on you. Now. 458 00:24:19,441 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 2: Also, the timing of this conversation comes after the discovery 459 00:24:23,961 --> 00:24:28,321 Speaker 2: of a bone in South Australia, which private investigators believe 460 00:24:28,441 --> 00:24:31,201 Speaker 2: maybe from Kirsty or Joanne. 461 00:24:32,001 --> 00:24:33,321 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that it is human. 462 00:24:33,721 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 2: That's not been officially confirmed yet, but that was a 463 00:24:36,281 --> 00:24:37,961 Speaker 2: trigger for you to talk about this now. 464 00:24:39,201 --> 00:24:39,721 Speaker 1: Definitely. 465 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 3: I was laying in bed one night, just throlling Facebook, 466 00:24:42,961 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 3: as a lot of people do, and up came a 467 00:24:45,801 --> 00:24:50,041 Speaker 3: newspaper report saying that the testing had in fact came 468 00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 3: back and it had been determined that it wasn't a 469 00:24:52,761 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 3: human bone, and mentioned the Adelaide oval and I pricked 470 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,321 Speaker 3: my interest and then I just went down a rabbit hole. 471 00:25:00,521 --> 00:25:03,801 Speaker 3: Every night, it's just become somewhat of a little bit 472 00:25:03,801 --> 00:25:07,041 Speaker 3: of an obsessionting over my head. And that's when I 473 00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:10,201 Speaker 3: reached out to tell my story, hoping it could be 474 00:25:10,761 --> 00:25:11,281 Speaker 3: put away. 475 00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:15,441 Speaker 2: Yes, Now, I always asked this question when I get 476 00:25:15,441 --> 00:25:17,161 Speaker 2: people come to me out of the blue as you did, 477 00:25:17,441 --> 00:25:18,281 Speaker 2: Why did you choose me? 478 00:25:19,721 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 3: I just heard of you, I've seen you, your stuff 479 00:25:22,921 --> 00:25:27,281 Speaker 3: on TV the investigators. You're very prominent. You come across 480 00:25:27,281 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 3: as a trusting individual, very likable, and someone that would 481 00:25:31,721 --> 00:25:32,881 Speaker 3: listen to my story. 482 00:25:33,521 --> 00:25:35,681 Speaker 2: Well, thank you. I'm flattered by that. I appreciate that 483 00:25:36,041 --> 00:25:39,281 Speaker 2: if it's not fully true. But one thing, when you 484 00:25:39,321 --> 00:25:42,681 Speaker 2: got out of prison, you might have seen the identic 485 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,041 Speaker 2: picture of the man who was supposed to have taken 486 00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 2: Joann and Kirsty. It's a fairly rudimentary sketch of a 487 00:25:50,801 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 2: gaunt looking man, thin face, sharp features, with a hat on. 488 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 2: I know it's very difficult from that picture to be definitive, 489 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 2: but do you think it looked like him? 490 00:26:02,241 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 3: Yes? So when I had my interactions with Errol, he 491 00:26:04,681 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 3: would have in sixty nine, seventy years of age. He 492 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:13,321 Speaker 3: definitely had that slender figure, the sort of shallow finish 493 00:26:13,441 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 3: face with the big ears. I've got family members with 494 00:26:16,521 --> 00:26:19,681 Speaker 3: big ears, so that sort of stuck out to me definitely. 495 00:26:19,721 --> 00:26:22,161 Speaker 3: And when he sat in his seat, in the seat 496 00:26:22,201 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 3: and you approached him from behind, very slatched over. I 497 00:26:25,961 --> 00:26:28,321 Speaker 3: don't know if that had come to him in older 498 00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:32,761 Speaker 3: life or if he just naturally holds that position that. Yeah, 499 00:26:32,801 --> 00:26:36,761 Speaker 3: when I see that identic at picture, I can see 500 00:26:36,921 --> 00:26:37,561 Speaker 3: Errol there. 501 00:26:38,321 --> 00:26:40,041 Speaker 2: Yes, and I'm trying to get a photograph of him 502 00:26:40,041 --> 00:26:42,241 Speaker 2: that they actually very did. There is one in existence, 503 00:26:42,441 --> 00:26:44,601 Speaker 2: I believe, which I'm trying to get hold of, which 504 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 2: I will forward to you and we'll see whether that 505 00:26:47,041 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 2: also triggers any memories for you at all. But so, 506 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 2: how was your parting with him? He was moved from 507 00:26:53,281 --> 00:26:56,561 Speaker 2: the unit, was he? That's correct. So within the prison 508 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 2: you'll have a residential area, so as the prisoners get 509 00:27:00,001 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 2: older and if they're well behaved, you can get moved 510 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 2: into a residential unit, which is small housing, a little 511 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 2: bit more freedom. It's just like little hearts, essentially, little 512 00:27:10,761 --> 00:27:14,360 Speaker 2: units of about four inmates and they can mingle with 513 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,201 Speaker 2: their own TV. Yeah, he was moved off there. 514 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,921 Speaker 1: And you moved out not long after that, permanently. Correct. 515 00:27:22,001 --> 00:27:25,761 Speaker 2: Yes, How was your reintegration back into society after this 516 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 2: five months? 517 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,521 Speaker 3: It was very tough. Everything I had ever done in 518 00:27:31,561 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 3: my employment history was government related jobs, jobs that required 519 00:27:35,801 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 3: criminal history checks. I could no longer do that because 520 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,561 Speaker 3: this offense would show up on my record. I remember 521 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 3: at the time, I even applied to be a limousine driver, 522 00:27:45,761 --> 00:27:48,321 Speaker 3: a random job that I saw advertise on the Internet, 523 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 3: and I couldn't even do that. You needed to drive 524 00:27:50,681 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 3: his authorization. I applied for it, it got rejected. So 525 00:27:54,241 --> 00:27:57,121 Speaker 3: I did a lot of I moved into a logistics 526 00:27:57,201 --> 00:28:00,880 Speaker 3: company and I did that essentially for ten years until 527 00:28:01,001 --> 00:28:04,521 Speaker 3: my conviction became a spent conviction where it's not shown 528 00:28:04,561 --> 00:28:07,041 Speaker 3: on your criminal record, and then I went back into 529 00:28:07,041 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 3: a government job. 530 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,400 Speaker 2: Right, And how do you reflect on that time in 531 00:28:10,441 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 2: your life now? 532 00:28:12,921 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 3: Honestly, I'm still disappointed in myself. A lot of my 533 00:28:17,281 --> 00:28:22,360 Speaker 3: social circle don't know about my past. I study at 534 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 3: the moment at university. No one would know. No one 535 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,241 Speaker 3: would suspect it. I think they'd be quite shocked. Only 536 00:28:29,321 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 3: my family and my partner know of that time. 537 00:28:34,441 --> 00:28:34,641 Speaker 1: Ched. 538 00:28:34,681 --> 00:28:36,521 Speaker 2: I know we're using a pseudonym, but I do appreciate 539 00:28:36,521 --> 00:28:38,681 Speaker 2: you coming forward and sharing this information. I'm going to 540 00:28:38,721 --> 00:28:41,081 Speaker 2: run it past other people as well, who are closer 541 00:28:41,081 --> 00:28:43,041 Speaker 2: to the case than I am and see how it tallies. 542 00:28:43,361 --> 00:28:46,401 Speaker 2: There are very few suspects for the Adelaide Oval case 543 00:28:46,521 --> 00:28:50,161 Speaker 2: at least and certainly not ones that have confessed. So 544 00:28:50,521 --> 00:28:53,841 Speaker 2: your information is very important and I'll see what I 545 00:28:53,841 --> 00:28:56,361 Speaker 2: can do with it and maybe add some more to 546 00:28:56,401 --> 00:28:57,001 Speaker 2: this podcast. 547 00:28:57,001 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: But thank you so much for sharing it. 548 00:28:59,161 --> 00:29:01,601 Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you for providing me a platform share 549 00:29:01,681 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 3: my story. 550 00:29:02,281 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 2: Thanks Adam, absolutely fantastic, Thank you so much. 551 00:29:06,801 --> 00:29:07,641 Speaker 1: So that's Ted there. 552 00:29:08,081 --> 00:29:12,521 Speaker 2: Former prison officer finds himself in jail, be friends Errol Radan, 553 00:29:12,641 --> 00:29:15,841 Speaker 2: who is the leading suspect in the nineteen seventy three 554 00:29:15,881 --> 00:29:20,681 Speaker 2: abduction of Kirsty Gordon and Joanne Ratcliffe. Now, if you 555 00:29:20,681 --> 00:29:23,281 Speaker 2: have information about this case, please get in touch. I 556 00:29:23,281 --> 00:29:26,561 Speaker 2: think obviously most people are dead, the girls are gone, 557 00:29:26,841 --> 00:29:28,601 Speaker 2: most of the suspects are dead, but. 558 00:29:28,561 --> 00:29:29,841 Speaker 1: The family still remain. 559 00:29:29,921 --> 00:29:33,201 Speaker 2: And always information has a value, So you can always 560 00:29:33,241 --> 00:29:35,921 Speaker 2: call crime stobbers, one hunt of Triple three, Triple zero, 561 00:29:36,281 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 2: or if you don't trust the police, you can do 562 00:29:38,561 --> 00:29:41,401 Speaker 2: what Ted's done and get in touch with me. Adam Shanner, 563 00:29:41,441 --> 00:29:45,321 Speaker 2: writer at gmail dot com. But above all, do not 564 00:29:45,641 --> 00:29:48,521 Speaker 2: take this information to your grave. There are many reasons 565 00:29:48,841 --> 00:29:52,121 Speaker 2: why people do hold information for many years. I've been 566 00:29:52,121 --> 00:29:55,121 Speaker 2: in this situation numerous times, so it doesn't affect the 567 00:29:55,201 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 2: veracity of it. You need to understand the context of it. 568 00:29:58,161 --> 00:30:01,161 Speaker 2: But people do hold these secrets for a long time, 569 00:30:01,481 --> 00:30:04,961 Speaker 2: maybe till a parent dies or something happens in their life. 570 00:30:05,041 --> 00:30:08,441 Speaker 2: I think it's time to unburden themselves as tenors done. 571 00:30:08,681 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: Don't wait so long. That's my advice. This has been 572 00:30:10,961 --> 00:30:12,641 Speaker 1: Adam Shaffer, Real Crime. Thanks for listening.