Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to the Maths Funny podcast and
Speaker 1: also to the Josh and Stefano side podcast series, because
Speaker 1: this episode today covers both of these things. So last
Speaker 1: night I caught up with Hailey Vernon, who many of
Speaker 1: you may remember as the outspoken and unfiltered bride from
Speaker 1: season seven of Married at First Sight, and some of
Speaker 1: you may also know her as one of the first
Speaker 1: MATHS brides, not just to join only fans like four
Speaker 1: or five years ago, when it was this new thing
Speaker 1: that everyone was kind of judging and shocked about, but
Speaker 1: she was so proud and open about the fact she
Speaker 1: was on there, and she continued being so proud and
Speaker 1: open about the fact that she progressed from selling topless
Speaker 1: pictures to then soft content with other people, to eventually
Speaker 1: hardcore upon and becoming a high class escort. But what
Speaker 1: you will hear in this episode is that pride that
Speaker 1: she had and was so open about as she boasted
Speaker 1: about this career. It was all fake and she was pretending.
Speaker 1: And I wanted to catch up with Hailey in this
Speaker 1: episode for two reasons. Firstly, because over the last year
Speaker 1: and a half, not only has she quit the industry
Speaker 1: and found God, and a new purpose in her life.
Speaker 1: But she's now so against that world, and she has
Speaker 1: so much regret, and she wants to speak out to
Speaker 1: highlight the real impact that job had on her at
Speaker 1: a time when sex work is becoming more and more
Speaker 1: normalized in the media, and I suppose society, so many
Speaker 1: people do glamorize how much they're making on there, and
Speaker 1: they both have becoming rich and famous and showing off,
Speaker 1: you know, their designer bags and mansions and all that.
Speaker 1: But Hailey really wants people to know the actual reality
Speaker 1: of doing that job. And secondly, as I'm now faced
Speaker 1: with this dilemma in my own personal life, as I
Speaker 1: figure out if I can accept my partner Stefano doing
Speaker 1: OnlyFans as a job and him having to sleep with
Speaker 1: other people for his content, I wanted to get Hailey's
Speaker 1: thoughts on this as a friend and also as someone
Speaker 1: who been for and against that industry and knows it
Speaker 1: more than like, well, probably most people.
Speaker 2: Before I do play out our chat.
Speaker 1: Though, just for a bit more background context, I've been
Speaker 1: friends with Hailey for years now. I met her as
Speaker 1: she was filming her season. I then started helping her
Speaker 1: out with media stuff.
Speaker 2: I was doing.
Speaker 1: Paparazzi pictures of her, We're doing articles for the Daily Mail,
Speaker 1: And I remember as her season wrapped on TV, she
Speaker 1: actually asked me, do you think I should join OnlyFans?
Speaker 1: And I said, go for it, like if you're comfortable.
Speaker 1: She'd done topless waitressing in her past years before that,
Speaker 1: and those pictures had kind of started to leak, and
Speaker 1: you know, that content was out there, so it was like, well,
Speaker 1: if you can make money, now, why not. And I've
Speaker 1: always been so pro any kind of sex work. And
Speaker 1: I think if someone can make money off their body
Speaker 1: in a way they're comfortable doing, then great, And especially
Speaker 1: women who you know, often grow up being shamed for
Speaker 1: their bodies and being treated as objects. Like if they
Speaker 1: can and flip that script almost and profit from the
Speaker 1: thing that men are gonna objectify regardless, then good on them.
Speaker 2: And as Hailey's adult career progressed.
Speaker 1: Over the years she was doing that work, there was
Speaker 1: a time I even filmed some scenes for her. I
Speaker 1: would edit some of her content. I was still helping
Speaker 1: with media to promote her as a famous escort, and
Speaker 1: I was even there as her day at the Adult
Speaker 1: Industry Choice Awards when she won Best Newcomer Female pond
Speaker 1: start in twenty twenty two, and I always believe that
Speaker 1: she truly loved what she was doing and she was
Speaker 1: so proud of it. And since she quit the industry,
Speaker 1: we haven't actually had this chat until now. Hello, Hailey Vernon,
Speaker 1: how are you? I'm very good. How are you doing on.
Speaker 3: Good with creating controversy on the internet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm having a minor life crisis and I'm turning
Speaker 1: to you as a friend in need.
Speaker 3: I'm here for you, for you. What was I going
Speaker 3: to say to you?
Speaker 4: Was that real that you plus stood about consoling Stefano?
Speaker 3: Was that yesterday that that happened? Was it like in
Speaker 3: real time?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: That everything you've just watched was yesterday.
Speaker 3: Okay, cool.
Speaker 4: So he broke down after seeing the comments about work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think like he's proud of like, you know,
Speaker 1: he's not ashamed of doing only fans his family.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 1: His friend was like, he's made a good income and
Speaker 1: a life for himself. But I think he's never really
Speaker 1: had any negativity attached to it until now and seeing
Speaker 1: that in the dynamic of you know, it's not just
Speaker 1: him as a creator, it's him as a creator now
Speaker 1: in a relationship.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, which is like a whole different kettle of fish.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And he went into this project with me thinking his
Speaker 1: partner would just have to accept it, you know, because
Speaker 1: that's his income. And I think he's slowly challenging that
Speaker 1: fart And you know, I've only known the guy almost
Speaker 1: three weeks. That you can't do that overnight.
Speaker 4: It's funny because when I was a and creator, I
Speaker 4: had the same expectation as what Stefano had that I
Speaker 4: would find someone and then they'd have to be okay
Speaker 4: with it, because work is work and a sexualized relationship
Speaker 4: with love in it is different, two different things.
Speaker 3: Right, And then it just doesn't work like that.
Speaker 4: And looking back on it, I just realized how selfish
Speaker 4: I was normalizing something that just isn't normal. And our
Speaker 4: society has gone so far over to one extreme, this
Speaker 4: like hyper sexualization of making an income from sexual activity
Speaker 4: so normal that it's.
Speaker 3: Kind of like this woke mentality.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to put it into words, but we've gone
Speaker 4: so far over where we're expecting these out of the ordinary,
Speaker 4: very not normal situations to be looked at as like normality.
Speaker 4: And it's a hell of a lot of pressure for
Speaker 4: someone else on the other side to put up with.
Speaker 4: And it also like it pushes a lot of trauma
Speaker 4: onto the other person as well, and it just I
Speaker 4: think it minimizes.
Speaker 3: The person that's coming into.
Speaker 4: The relationship exactly like how they how they're feeling, and
Speaker 4: what they're going through.
Speaker 3: And just like I kind of see it as selfish.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like.
Speaker 1: I get that, and I would say if I knew
Speaker 1: this about and beforehand, it would be selfish. But you know,
Speaker 1: because of how we were much it's not like I
Speaker 1: made that choice. And now I'm like, no, change your
Speaker 1: whole life.
Speaker 4: And you know, you don't expect someone to change their
Speaker 4: whole life either, and like I wouldn't have when like
Speaker 4: guys approached me, I was the same Stefan and I
Speaker 4: was like, oh, well, I don't know all the ins
Speaker 4: and outs of what he said to you, but I
Speaker 4: was like, I'm not changing, you know what I'm doing.
Speaker 4: This is what i'm doing. I'm empowered by it. I'm
Speaker 4: making an income. And then now I've like seen it
Speaker 4: on the on the other foot, and I'm just like
Speaker 4: it was Yeah, I just I just feel like it's
Speaker 4: and it's not that Stefano or myself were in positions
Speaker 4: where we couldn't do other things.
Speaker 3: Are we normalizing the fact that this is a quick,
Speaker 3: easy buck.
Speaker 1: I think, like in the chats I've had with him,
Speaker 1: like he, you know, coming here from Argentina, he would
Speaker 1: have to.
Speaker 2: Study a lot to be a lawyer here, Like he.
Speaker 1: Was at home and he his friends who are also
Speaker 1: from South America, like you know, they're just doing casual,
Speaker 1: bad jobs waiting and he's like, I don't want to
Speaker 1: go back to that, Like I look at the lifestyle
Speaker 1: this has afforded me, Like he's questioning if he steps away,
Speaker 1: what does he do because if he gets the jobs
Speaker 1: like his friends have got, you know, he's incomes, what
Speaker 1: of what he's making now, I assume, and he can't afford,
Speaker 1: you know, to live on his own.
Speaker 2: And yeah, there's a lot at touched to him.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's there's there's a lot of balance out, but
Speaker 4: there's also a lot of options, Like this doesn't need
Speaker 4: to be a long term thing.
Speaker 3: Is he planning on doing this forever?
Speaker 1: No, he says it's not forever, but he's not really
Speaker 1: far about the logistics of that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I suppose, like I don't know in my position
Speaker 4: if I really loved someone, then I'd make a gain
Speaker 4: plan out of it, because the love would supersede the monetary.
Speaker 3: Value of what I'm doing.
Speaker 4: You know, it kind of depends where he wants to
Speaker 4: go with this and how far in the relationship he is.
Speaker 1: What was it like for you, because obviously, just to
Speaker 1: let the listeners know, like our backstory, I'm at you
Speaker 1: when you were filming Maths, which is good.
Speaker 2: Was six years ago? Now was it ag fucking then? Yeah?
Speaker 1: You know we were working together doing media stuff and
Speaker 1: then you join only fans and you know you started
Speaker 1: off topless like everyone else. Then it progressed and progressed,
Speaker 1: and then I was there blooty next year when you
Speaker 1: won't best New come upon star at the Adult.
Speaker 4: Also also filmed some in hotel room one night.
Speaker 1: Yes I did tell you going down on a woman,
Speaker 1: but like I got to know that world for you,
Speaker 1: and like I remember when I filmed you and Tori
Speaker 1: have sad and like we're all giggling in between, and
Speaker 1: like I saw it was just acting. It wasn't like
Speaker 1: intimate sex that I do have with my partner, you know,
Speaker 1: Like so I differentiate like that because of what I
Speaker 1: learned through you essentially. But then in the times in
Speaker 1: the last year or so, when we've not really spoken,
Speaker 1: you've gone off and you've like done a full three
Speaker 1: sixty one eighty.
Speaker 3: Oh, you've done a bit of both. Started off as
Speaker 3: a one eighty and got to a three sixty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you started up Pond and then it was
Speaker 1: like extreme Pond, like you're going around Eastern Europe, like
Speaker 1: you're on worldwide tours as a Pond start and you're
Speaker 1: doing the escort and then you're making so much money
Speaker 1: and you always felt, well, you always said you were
Speaker 1: so empowered and proud of it and not ashamed, And
Speaker 1: then so.
Speaker 4: I think I was I was lying to myself, Josh.
Speaker 4: I was sitting in this decision.
Speaker 3: No, I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't know if anyone of the dreams of being
Speaker 4: a sex worker do they. I honestly believe, sitting back
Speaker 4: and looking at it now, that people do it because
Speaker 4: like Stefano, they're so desperate for cash. At one specific
Speaker 4: point and coming off the back of the TV show,
Speaker 4: I couldn't go back into my career as a finance
Speaker 4: broker and I was going to lose everything.
Speaker 3: So I started off.
Speaker 4: As you like you said, with the topless photos and whatnot,
Speaker 4: and then that progressed quite rapidly, and it was a
Speaker 4: slippery slope, and I kept trying to justify it to
Speaker 4: myself because of the money that I was being made
Speaker 4: and slowly seen by seeing movie by movie, the more
Speaker 4: people that I slept with, I became so deattached from
Speaker 4: who I was as a human. And the thing is
Speaker 4: is that you know, we can talk about this empowerment
Speaker 4: and put a lot of self in it, but it
Speaker 4: is just that it's acting. And you start acting so
Speaker 4: much that you forget actually who you are and what
Speaker 4: your values are, and.
Speaker 3: The line becomes quite blurred.
Speaker 4: Now I'm talking on behalf of myself, but I'm also
Speaker 4: talking from a perspective where I've seen.
Speaker 1: Lot.
Speaker 3: I don't want to say low level sex workers. That
Speaker 3: there's a spectrum to everything.
Speaker 4: Right, You've got your low tier moneymakers and just the
Speaker 4: stats on Only Fans, I think it's the average creator
Speaker 4: makes between one hundred and fifty to five hundred dollars
Speaker 4: a month.
Speaker 3: People aren't killing it on Only fans, right, And.
Speaker 4: It's the most over glorified platform. And you know, I
Speaker 4: paid a part. I played a part in that, but
Speaker 4: you start acting so much and becoming this character that
Speaker 4: isn't you, that you actually forget to be you. And
Speaker 4: then when it comes to interacting in everyday life and
Speaker 4: normal conversations, you actually start getting riddled with anxiety and
Speaker 4: fear because you're so used to standing on something that
Speaker 4: is so far removed from who God has caused you
Speaker 4: to be and who you were made to be, that
Speaker 4: you just don't have a firm foundation anymore.
Speaker 1: That Yeah, that's crazy hearing you say that and reaching
Speaker 1: that point. And it's interesting because I feel like every
Speaker 1: year when we get new maths, people are new celebrities,
Speaker 1: or anyone joins only funds, the first thing they seem
Speaker 1: to do is.
Speaker 2: Boast about how much they've made.
Speaker 1: And I've always felt that is just them trying to
Speaker 1: just to fight to themselves and like get validation from
Speaker 1: the people who are you know, judging them, being like, well,
Speaker 1: yeah I'm doing this, but look I've just made twenty
Speaker 1: grand this month.
Speaker 3: The money is great. Like, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 4: When you first start, like you know, I went from
Speaker 4: absolutely busting my balls quite frankly, like at a normal
Speaker 4: nine to five job, walking overtime on the phone on emails,
Speaker 4: you know, as a finance broker, to having extidential amounts
Speaker 4: of money hitting my account that you know, I could
Speaker 4: never have fathomed.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: So it's great at the start, but everything comes at
Speaker 4: a cost. It comes at a cost, and it comes
Speaker 4: at a cost personally. You lose yourself. You end up
Speaker 4: losing your identity. You become so deattached from the normal
Speaker 4: world that, like I said, you just you forget the
Speaker 4: value of a dollar and it doesn't last. It's the
Speaker 4: tree projectory is so steep and so fast, and it
Speaker 4: comes down quite quickly as well. Now, like I said,
Speaker 4: I was on the other end of the scale. So
Speaker 4: that's not your average kind of creator. And now Sofano
Speaker 4: is in a position where I don't know like his
Speaker 4: whole story, but just say, for instance, he's going for
Speaker 4: pr they're going to do like background checks, so I
Speaker 4: don't know what his case is. Or you know, let's
Speaker 4: talk about the average woman or the average male that
Speaker 4: is on the platform as well. They go in, they're
Speaker 4: going hard and fast, they get money that they haven't
Speaker 4: had before. Then they start having all these problems. They
Speaker 4: might start drinking to deal with what's going Actually going on,
Speaker 4: you know, because they've been forced into a position that
Speaker 4: they generally don't want to go in. And I'm not
Speaker 4: saying that everyone has substance abuse issues, but then that
Speaker 4: comes crashing down. You then have to step back into
Speaker 4: the public eye. Now I've had conversations with you before, Joshua,
Speaker 4: I was like, no, that's okay, Like I'm and this
Speaker 4: is going to sound so big headed, but this is
Speaker 4: what I actually thought.
Speaker 3: I thought, Oh, well, you know, I've been on a
Speaker 3: TV show.
Speaker 4: Everyone knows what I do, so I'll be able to
Speaker 4: step back into the normal workplace and no one will care.
Speaker 3: Well, they do care. Society does care.
Speaker 4: It's not I what was I going to write on
Speaker 4: a resume that I've been doing?
Speaker 3: And then everyone knows and most employees these days will
Speaker 3: jump on Google and do a search. Everything is up there.
Speaker 4: It's taken me nineteen months to just get my videos
Speaker 4: of porn Hub now only fans. The video content is
Speaker 4: not copyrighted purely to OnlyFans, so my pornography is all
Speaker 4: over the world.
Speaker 3: Now, this isn't something.
Speaker 4: That I went into naive and thought, oh I knew
Speaker 4: this was going to happen. But to the extent that
Speaker 4: it was going to happen and it was going to
Speaker 4: damage me.
Speaker 3: I totally underestimated.
Speaker 4: And you know, this is someone like myself, who is
Speaker 4: known and in some regard has a little bit more
Speaker 4: leeway when going into industry because it is so public.
Speaker 4: But your average Joe, average person, that is just so detrimental,
Speaker 4: you know, unless you do crack that top tier, which
Speaker 4: most people don't. But even then, like myself, I struggled.
Speaker 4: I left, had to get a job, you know. And
Speaker 4: there's nothing against the job that I'm about to say,
Speaker 4: but I had to work at a call center at twenty
Speaker 4: nine dollars an hour when I first left, just because
Speaker 4: I would rather flip burgers and do a job like
Speaker 4: that as opposed to putting so much of myself out
Speaker 4: there for every single other person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, a job's a job, isn't it.
Speaker 4: Like amen, And but that's that's the thing that I
Speaker 4: say to all these girls, and I say to like
Speaker 4: guys like Stefano, like.
Speaker 3: The statistics are just crazy.
Speaker 4: It's like, you know, only fans creators over between one
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty to one hundred and eighty dollars per month.
Speaker 4: The approximate monthly income is one thy eight hundred to
Speaker 4: two thousand annually annually, right, So that's actually below the
Speaker 4: medium Australia wage. So are we're exploiting ourselves for a
Speaker 4: quick win that doesn't become a quick win which is
Speaker 4: so detrimental you'll probably not be able to step foot
Speaker 4: into a job where you could get minimum wage. Or
Speaker 4: are you willing to just like flip a burger or
Speaker 4: do something or is it your ego and your pride
Speaker 4: where you just won't do anything that you would prefer
Speaker 4: to put so much of yourself out there at the
Speaker 4: cost of yourself and others, that you take such a
Speaker 4: risk that's going to be following you around forever.
Speaker 2: Do you think two points?
Speaker 1: Firstly, do you think though employers and like you know,
Speaker 1: back in the real world, people are more accepting now
Speaker 1: because it has become so normalized.
Speaker 4: No, no, absolutely not, absolutely not. I think for like
Speaker 4: the younger generations, sure it's become more accepting, but they're
Speaker 4: not your bosses, they're not your employers. They don't want
Speaker 4: their customers looking up and finding out things. It's hard
Speaker 4: to get a proper job or to unless you're the
Speaker 4: social media space or you're in radio media, maybe marketing
Speaker 4: of some sorts in that really niche kind of. It's
Speaker 4: the most employees and most business owners are of an
Speaker 4: older demographic, or it's not as normalized as what people
Speaker 4: think it is. And I am just yeah, I'm just
Speaker 4: extremely sorry and apologetics that I played a part in
Speaker 4: glorifying it, because porn shouldn't.
Speaker 3: Be made normal. And this isn't me shaming.
Speaker 4: Sex workers, like sex work is work, but people like
Speaker 4: myself who have come out the other end also have
Speaker 4: an obligation to say it exactly what it is. It
Speaker 4: is soul destroying. It breaks families, it ruins marriages. Pornography
Speaker 4: it is so like so self centered. My younger sister,
Speaker 4: members of my family to this day still get grief
Speaker 4: through what my actions, and they'll probably continue to get
Speaker 4: that for the next ten years.
Speaker 1: Did you could you sorry? You just said so? You've
Speaker 1: taken that call center job I was at last year? Like,
Speaker 1: did you face any like prejudice discrimination? Did you when
Speaker 1: you were applying for that and going through that process
Speaker 1: like ensery.
Speaker 4: I applied Josh for I think over probably two hundred
Speaker 4: and fifty three hundred jobs.
Speaker 3: Wow, I got to I got two calls.
Speaker 4: People knew my name, they knew who I was, and
Speaker 4: I was just willing to do anything. I just knew
Speaker 4: that I didn't want to go back to what I
Speaker 4: went in. I ended up getting a job. I got
Speaker 4: got it for two days, and then my accreditation for
Speaker 4: what I'm currently doing at the moment came through.
Speaker 3: But I have absolutely busted myself since.
Speaker 4: The day that I left to never go back and
Speaker 4: to never have it as a safety net, because it's
Speaker 4: not a safety net for me personally. I actually think
Speaker 4: it's entrapment, right because people get stack in this like
Speaker 4: loophole and they have this like carrot of money dangled
Speaker 4: in front of them, and then it really cuts off.
Speaker 3: Your other avenues and it also isolates you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a quick win for a long time.
Speaker 4: It's kind it's kind of like drugs, right, like you
Speaker 4: for anyone that's listening, it's going on drugs. You get
Speaker 4: on the drugs, it's all happy, but you have to
Speaker 4: keep going to maintain that kind of high, right, and
Speaker 4: then it cuts you off from like your surroundings. It's
Speaker 4: it's heavily toxic in my opinion, and.
Speaker 2: Like that high.
Speaker 1: Now as more and more people are on these platforms
Speaker 1: like only Fans, He's getting harder to reach, like you
Speaker 1: see in you know, when we were starting your Only
Speaker 1: Fans and I was helping you in media, you know,
Speaker 1: like just the fact that you a reality start was
Speaker 1: admitting yeah, I'm doing Pond. Five years ago, that was
Speaker 1: like top headline ever. ALM was so shocked and outraged,
Speaker 1: you know, like, no way Hayley's doing that. And I
Speaker 1: remember five years before that if someone had a topless
Speaker 1: picture in the media, be like, oh my god, someone's
Speaker 1: got a topless picture. Now, like look at you know
Speaker 1: any night the OnlyFans girl on the Gold Coast last weekend,
Speaker 1: I think she slept with five hundred and eighty three
Speaker 1: people in six hours, Like what.
Speaker 3: Is what is wrong with these girls?
Speaker 4: And like I hate saying that because like you know,
Speaker 4: things like Anal I said, I'd never do they keep
Speaker 4: moving the parameters and you're right, Josh, like five years
Speaker 4: ago there was shock and aw to just admitting it.
Speaker 3: Right, these girls and these men are having to do
Speaker 3: more and.
Speaker 4: More and more and more and more in order to
Speaker 4: earn a dollar.
Speaker 2: Like where where does it end? I suppose is.
Speaker 3: Like where does it end?
Speaker 6: You know, like you just have to go on TikTok
Speaker 6: these days, and like TikTok is a platform that's not
Speaker 6: designed for over eighteen year old and listen to girls
Speaker 6: sitting there with the water cash glorifying it, talking about
Speaker 6: their experience and their customers.
Speaker 3: We've got young women and young.
Speaker 4: Men under the age of eighteen watching this and like
Speaker 4: I'm the first to admit it, like I did it.
Speaker 3: I spoke about it on my Instagram.
Speaker 4: But I can tell you now, the day that I
Speaker 4: got to Thailand after filming overseas for a bigger, big
Speaker 4: national company, I looked at myself and my eyes were
Speaker 4: so black. I was riddle with anxiety. I was almost
Speaker 4: manic depressant. I had disassociated with myself for so long
Speaker 4: that I didn't know whether I was coming or going.
Speaker 3: I just didn't know. I just knew that I couldn't
Speaker 3: do it anymore.
Speaker 4: And it just comes to a point where you just break,
Speaker 4: you know, And if you don't break me and you
Speaker 4: we both know people in the industry that are older
Speaker 4: that can never get out of it now because they've
Speaker 4: reached the point of being able to do something else.
Speaker 1: That's true, and just to go back to like what
Speaker 1: you say, like young impressional girls, like how do you
Speaker 1: think a twelve year old or a thirteen year old
Speaker 1: girl who is constantly being faed tiktoks and Instagram reels
Speaker 1: of these girls like come with me to sleep with
Speaker 1: five hundred men? I've just thousand men challenged. It was
Speaker 1: a girl in England recently who.
Speaker 3: Did I think it was a Bonnie Blue.
Speaker 2: No, there was another one. So Bonnie did a thousand member.
Speaker 2: There was a girl who did the one hundred.
Speaker 1: Men backdoor challenge and that was just you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. But like these extremes associated with sex, it
Speaker 1: might not be normalized in society, but on social media
Speaker 1: to scroll on the for you, this is now the normal.
Speaker 1: And like I suppose for these young girls like who
Speaker 1: were learning to maybe figure out their sexuality, and it's.
Speaker 4: Grooming, isn't it's it's groomed.
Speaker 3: It's grooming young women into thinking it's normality.
Speaker 4: You know, the human mind is not designed to take
Speaker 4: on board that much information a day. And look at
Speaker 4: all the information that's just getting shoved in these young girls' heads.
Speaker 4: You know, we talk about you know, when I was younger,
Speaker 4: it was all about that body image. You know, we
Speaker 4: had like Dolly magazine and all these things coming out,
Speaker 4: and now like it's just so intense, like the pendulum
Speaker 4: has strung swung so far over to the other side.
Speaker 4: And a Paul, for instance, look at her cult following
Speaker 4: that she has. She's selling cute little lip glosses and
Speaker 4: hair ties and makeup products and has you know, sharpies
Speaker 4: on her car to write cute messages, and she's she's
Speaker 4: making porn. Her moms are lining up with their kids
Speaker 4: to get these girl's products, and she's doing porn.
Speaker 1: And yeah, and like this is the new type of
Speaker 1: Like do you remember twenty years ago you'd line up
Speaker 1: to meet a pop star, But now this is the reality.
Speaker 1: Girls are lighting up to me upon star who they aregalize.
Speaker 3: It's crazy, isn't it crazy?
Speaker 4: It's so insane And I don't know how we got
Speaker 4: to get it back.
Speaker 3: I don't even know if it's possible now. I think
Speaker 3: it's too far gone.
Speaker 4: All I know is that people like myself need to
Speaker 4: come out and speak about the other other side of it,
Speaker 4: because you know, people are always gonna come at me
Speaker 4: and be like, you know, you had all this money
Speaker 4: I did, but I like also lost a lot of
Speaker 4: money as well, because I wasn't financially mature enough to
Speaker 4: be able to handle it.
Speaker 3: Because it came in.
Speaker 4: Quickly and at went quickly, and thank god it went quickly,
Speaker 4: because God knows what would have happened if yed had
Speaker 4: stayed in my hand for too long.
Speaker 2: But you know, my.
Speaker 1: Perception of you is you were always sensible that like
Speaker 1: you did invest. You still have properties.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I still I still have my house, I
Speaker 4: still have You know, I wasn't it wasn't stupid, but
Speaker 4: I was like I could have done better with it,
Speaker 4: of course, but you know, it helped out.
Speaker 3: My family, But I am yeah, I lost myself.
Speaker 4: It's what's It's been twenty months, I think a year
Speaker 4: and a half. Yeah, twenty months since I left the industry,
Speaker 4: and I reckon just really the last seven months, I've
Speaker 4: fully become content and comfortable with who I am again.
Speaker 4: And even now I'm a fairly confident person. Let you know,
Speaker 4: there's I still have situations where I'm sitting in public
Speaker 4: and I actually said too sorry just to get off
Speaker 4: the topic, but it's relatable to what I'm saying. I
Speaker 4: actually said to my client's husband the other day. So
Speaker 4: I do support services and I work for a Christian couple.
Speaker 3: They're amazing. And I started crying.
Speaker 4: Every Sunday they have people at their house, and I
Speaker 4: can get so awkward around normal conversation and normal people
Speaker 4: because I'm actually relearning how to assimilate back.
Speaker 3: Into society as just.
Speaker 4: Who I am, because I was living a life so
Speaker 4: outside of who I actually have been my whole life
Speaker 4: that I forgot how to interact and how to be
Speaker 4: normal somewhat. And his family and friends left and I
Speaker 4: just said, you know what, thank you so much.
Speaker 3: I feel so safe here.
Speaker 4: And I started crying and he said, we know it's
Speaker 4: hard for you, Hailey, Like you're doing great, and I'm
Speaker 4: like having to relearn a sense of normality again because
Speaker 4: the only fans and the hyper sexualization and everything that
Speaker 4: is that adult industry.
Speaker 3: It's not normal. It's not real life.
Speaker 4: We need to get away from making it real life
Speaker 4: because those people when they exit the industry and come
Speaker 4: back into the norm as such, right like if you
Speaker 4: aways put parameters on it, it's like it's.
Speaker 3: A struggle, Like it's a real struggle.
Speaker 4: And I'm still dealing with the flow on effect from
Speaker 4: that after being in it for five years.
Speaker 1: Was there a specific incident with you that, like, I know,
Speaker 1: it sounds like it was a gradual realization of losing yourself.
Speaker 2: What was there like because a lot of people assume that.
Speaker 1: World is dangerous, and you know you were escort in
Speaker 1: as well, which is a whole different level. But was
Speaker 1: there any specific I think that's.
Speaker 3: The thing, Josh.
Speaker 4: I think I went on a podcast with you or
Speaker 4: with stuff prior to doing this. When I first started,
Speaker 4: only things I'm like, I'd never do, I'd never become
Speaker 4: a new score. That's excelling your soul, and like what
Speaker 4: we're saying about that natural progression, like, look where I
Speaker 4: ended up, and it wasn't.
Speaker 3: I don't think it was one thing, but I can
Speaker 3: remember the point with a penny drop.
Speaker 4: So I went to London the week before I decided
Speaker 4: to pull the pin, and for months following I had
Speaker 4: started stuttering when I was speaking because I was thinking
Speaker 4: so much about what I was saying, and I was
Speaker 4: just anxious, and all this stuff had started to bubble
Speaker 4: to the surface. And I was sitting in a room
Speaker 4: with two really well known pawn stars from the US
Speaker 4: that had flown to the UK. I was in London
Speaker 4: at the time, and I was sitting there and I
Speaker 4: was having a discussion with a woman. She was forty
Speaker 4: eight point fifty, and I'd actually had discussions with people
Speaker 4: prior about what I would do if I was to
Speaker 4: leave the oudur industry, and I started using language like
Speaker 4: or like what else am I supposed to do?
Speaker 3: When?
Speaker 4: You know, so that obviously started taking a clear hit
Speaker 4: on my confidence and what I was able to do.
Speaker 4: And you know, people start saying, oh, you're just an escort,
Speaker 4: you just this, You just that, you start.
Speaker 3: To believe it, right.
Speaker 4: So, when I was on this set, this lady was
Speaker 4: speaking to me, and she was late forties, and she
Speaker 4: just it was so evidently clear that she was stuck
Speaker 4: and that she was you know, obviously like very glamorous
Speaker 4: and everything. But when she was talking to me, she
Speaker 4: was talking about like that she never got to have kids,
Speaker 4: and just different things throughout her life. And I just
Speaker 4: remember in that instance, thinking I need to get out
Speaker 4: of here, and I need to do it now because
Speaker 4: if I don't, I'm going to be her. And I
Speaker 4: knew it was going to be hard. And that's the thing.
Speaker 4: It's a big band aid to rip off, but it's
Speaker 4: so worth it. And and someone actually compared it to
Speaker 4: an analogy that when you know, when you base jump,
Speaker 4: you base jump and the parachutees wrapped up and you'll
Speaker 4: bump and you'll fall, but then the parachute opens and
Speaker 4: your glide, but you just have to take that jump
Speaker 4: or you just end up sitting in a situation that's
Speaker 4: uncomfortable but you're content with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's interesting. You say, how you
Speaker 1: know you started to see that result? You were because
Speaker 1: even last week Stephano and I he couldn't sleep, and
Speaker 1: you know, you're kind of just talking into the early
Speaker 1: hours in the dark, lay next to each other, and
Speaker 1: he was saying, like the feedback from the content we've
Speaker 1: done so far before mentioning only fans, like he's been overwhelmed,
Speaker 1: how so many people are seeing him for like just
Speaker 1: how lovely he is, how sweet he is, how caring
Speaker 1: gears and like over the last few years, as his
Speaker 1: only fans has blown up, because I think on Twitter
Speaker 1: he's got like two hundred thousand followers, Like he's big
Speaker 1: in that, you know, the gate on world, Like he'd
Speaker 1: started to see over the last few years that all
Speaker 1: he is to most people is the size of his
Speaker 1: dick or his body or you know, like and he
Speaker 1: says like before he ever started on the fans, when
Speaker 1: someone says Stephan, no, they know him for his brain
Speaker 1: or he's hot or you know, his smile. And then
Speaker 1: at some point he's lost sight of maybe who he is.
Speaker 1: And then through what we're doing in the chats we're having,
Speaker 1: he slowly like, it's not good? Is that?
Speaker 3: How Like? Honestly, how good is that?
Speaker 4: Because he has objectified himself and then become objectified by
Speaker 4: others where all they talk about is what they see
Speaker 4: and totally can relate to that as well, because people like, yes,
Speaker 4: exactly exactly the same thing. It's like when you're like, oh,
Speaker 4: I am actually nice, I do have something to offer
Speaker 4: to the table. But when no one gives an absolute
Speaker 4: flying f about anything other than what's between your legs,
Speaker 4: he thinks that that's your value. And then if people
Speaker 4: aren't complimenting, you have to look like, this is the thing.
Speaker 4: You have to learn to learn that like through people, unfortunately,
Speaker 4: not even your own validation, Like, because if he saw
Speaker 4: that within himself, you'd know that, right yea, So he
Speaker 4: wouldn't need to search it outside of himself, but this
Speaker 4: validation is coming from other people outside of himself, so
Speaker 4: you become insecure. You're looking for validation through the external,
Speaker 4: through what you're actually looking what you look like through
Speaker 4: the superficial as opposed.
Speaker 3: To like knowing your self worth.
Speaker 4: And so now like he's getting it reconfirmed by strangers,
Speaker 4: which is sad within itself because he's lost who he
Speaker 4: is through doing this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I suppose now, I mean with me and him,
Speaker 1: it's like I understand all you're using it, but I
Speaker 1: still think deep down that that can be a balance.
Speaker 1: I don't know whether it's solo content as you like
Speaker 1: he goes to that solo content whilst exploring different career opportunities,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like one hundred percent, I think I think it's a
Speaker 3: worthwhile conversation.
Speaker 4: You know, at the end of the day, it's this
Speaker 4: is like totally my perspective on it from being like,
Speaker 4: you know, in my shoes and as a couple, you
Speaker 4: need to navigate that, but you need to be comfortable
Speaker 4: with it as well, and he needs to be comfortable
Speaker 4: with it. But what a great thing that would be
Speaker 4: for him to realize that he's so much more than
Speaker 4: that and getting a game plan to get out because
Speaker 4: it's not something that has longevity, or maybe he's happy
Speaker 4: with that.
Speaker 1: But.
Speaker 3: I just know that. Remember when he said those conversations
Speaker 3: with you and you feel like, oh, you know, the
Speaker 3: right type of guy will like, you know, be okay
Speaker 3: with it.
Speaker 4: And you know I said it to you like a
Speaker 4: million times, like about getting a partner. I'm so thankful
Speaker 4: because I would never want a date a man that
Speaker 4: would be okay with me doing it because it shows
Speaker 4: the values that he has. And I the type of
Speaker 4: guy that I wanted would not want his missus showing
Speaker 4: their bits and pieces to the world.
Speaker 3: He would just want it for a loving relationship.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I recall actually this a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: but I remember when you started to feel like you
Speaker 1: were developing feelings with someone. But he was a client,
Speaker 1: was he? And like I remember thinking about that, Well,
Speaker 1: that's never going to be because he doesn't see you
Speaker 1: as Hailey and all the things, and you know your
Speaker 1: values and you as a person. He's he's paid you
Speaker 1: for the hour and that's how you've met him.
Speaker 3: And one hundred one hundred, one hundred percent.
Speaker 4: But that's how low my self worth got because I
Speaker 4: was like, you start to just push all your standards,
Speaker 4: all your everything that you would have stood for just
Speaker 4: dropped so much.
Speaker 3: NOA because kind of happy with what you can get
Speaker 3: at that point.
Speaker 1: That's actually I don't think I ever told you this book.
Speaker 1: Remember when you first started doing only funds and I
Speaker 1: was kind of part of that journey with you.
Speaker 2: And then remember I was briefly selling my socks.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And I just figured out, well, like that was not
Speaker 2: that bad. You know. I look at Hailey and the
Speaker 2: other girls are doing.
Speaker 1: And then this guy reaches out and he's like, I'll
Speaker 1: buy your socks, And then that worked out.
Speaker 2: I had to go to his house, sit there.
Speaker 1: For twenty minutes while he takes them off my feet
Speaker 1: and has a sniff, and then I leave with a
Speaker 1: few hundred dollars.
Speaker 3: He actually didn't tell me your book.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: But then I ended up like falling for this guy.
Speaker 1: And then because it doesn't matter, yeah, like it was
Speaker 1: he I think I wrote someone in the book like
Speaker 1: he was paying so much attention and compliments to a
Speaker 1: part of my body. I never cared for my feet
Speaker 1: like he must love me, he must love all of
Speaker 1: me and then like, obviously the guy never cared for
Speaker 1: me in the slightest.
Speaker 4: See how desperate we came in that moment where like
Speaker 4: we were just craving like any kind of love or
Speaker 4: a texture attention because we were so broken.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we we.
Speaker 1: Went whole and then I ended up giving him my
Speaker 1: socks for free after that, because I thought we were
Speaker 1: in a relationship.
Speaker 2: I got played.
Speaker 4: It's yeah, it's you know what it's I feel like
Speaker 4: you need to get clear on what you want, Josh Sefan.
Speaker 3: I need to get clear on what he wants.
Speaker 4: And if you both value your relationship, you will come
Speaker 4: up with a plan moving forward, whether that's to cut
Speaker 4: the only fans, to do something that you are both
Speaker 4: happy with, find some middle ground. But ultimately you want
Speaker 4: to mature a relationship where you have a husband who
Speaker 4: isn't delving into sex work, and why couldn't this be
Speaker 4: something that you guys eventuate into a marriage. I just
Speaker 4: don't think that in any well formed relationship that showing
Speaker 4: your partner to the world is in my eyes.
Speaker 3: Is okay.
Speaker 4: And I've got those old school values like you were
Speaker 4: talking about as well.
Speaker 3: It's funny I saw one of the comments.
Speaker 4: I was like, how could Josh have boltiicol values when
Speaker 4: he slept with us to Sydney And now everyone's everyone's
Speaker 4: gonna be listening to this thing, like she hocked yourself.
Speaker 3: Like, but I just.
Speaker 4: And I think I've said this to you in the
Speaker 4: past when I was in that position, I couldn't could
Speaker 4: never date someone that did only fans.
Speaker 3: How's the hypocrisy on that? There's there's no way I
Speaker 3: could handle it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you know this more than anyone, And yeah, no.
Speaker 5: Way I could handle it, Like not a chance, you know,
Speaker 5: And like, sure it's acting, but like there's times where
Speaker 5: like things cross the line.
Speaker 3: It's sex.
Speaker 4: It's like primal sex, right, so you can have sex,
Speaker 4: so you can enjoy it without love. How many people
Speaker 4: did you excuse my language, how many people did you
Speaker 4: fuck without love but you still enjoyed it?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's quite the list there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I don't want to go through it will
Speaker 3: be here for a while, but.
Speaker 4: You know what I mean, Like, so I don't know,
Speaker 4: it's just like it comes.
Speaker 3: Down to.
Speaker 4: What you care about and what he cares about and
Speaker 4: finding the middle ground and how badly I suppose she
Speaker 4: wants a relationship over this.
Speaker 3: You know, it's just yeah, well.
Speaker 1: I appreciate the chat, and I thank you to think
Speaker 1: about it, and I'm so happy that you are doing
Speaker 1: so well these days. Like whether regardless of what you're doing,
Speaker 1: it's just you've always been that person who you never
Speaker 1: half asked someone.
Speaker 2: Even from the damn me you and maths. You know
Speaker 2: you want to do something, you do it. You do
Speaker 2: it to the extreme.
Speaker 1: And I suppose that's maybe it was detrimental when you
Speaker 1: went into the poem world, because.
Speaker 3: There was also detrimental when I got into drugs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, are you doing good enough? So that's good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're just gonna have a red hot crack and
Speaker 4: everything you do. But yeah, I just I wish you
Speaker 4: guys are the best. You're also one of the nicest
Speaker 4: men that I know. You deserve it. You're well rounded,
Speaker 4: you're strong but soft, You're multifaceted. Don't waiver on what
Speaker 4: you want, Josh, stand tall and stand firm on the
Speaker 4: foundations that you have because you've spent a lot of
Speaker 4: time by yourself on the other end of all the
Speaker 4: lows in your life.
Speaker 3: And I believe that you do know what you want.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's really that's really important. We can't we
Speaker 4: can't move our standards up and down to fit someone.
Speaker 4: We have to be flexible, we have to compromise, but
Speaker 4: this is far more than compromising.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, I appreciate that, Haley, and I'm now going
Speaker 1: to go have a big think
Speaker 4: All right, my love,