WEBVTT - Prison gangs, eyeball soup and 20,000 inmates: Billy Moore Pt.2

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<v Speaker 1>The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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<v Speaker 1>Detective see a side of life the average persons never

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<v Speaker 1>exposed her. I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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<v Speaker 1>For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what I did for a living. I was a

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<v Speaker 1>homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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<v Speaker 1>The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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<v Speaker 1>from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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<v Speaker 1>and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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<v Speaker 1>of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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<v Speaker 1>no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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<v Speaker 1>Join me now as I take you into this world.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to part two of my chat with englishmen

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<v Speaker 1>Billy Moore. Billy's had an interesting life, to say the least.

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<v Speaker 1>He spent eighteen years in prison in the UK and

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<v Speaker 1>Thailands and survived some of the most brutal prisons in

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<v Speaker 1>the world. I'd have to say. One we talked to

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<v Speaker 1>Billy about his life, what led up to him living

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<v Speaker 1>in Thailand, and we just got to the point where

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<v Speaker 1>his life was starting the spiral out of control. He'd

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<v Speaker 1>been cleaned for a number of years. A couple of

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<v Speaker 1>things on the emotional front with a relationship sort of

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<v Speaker 1>steered him in the direction where he fell back into

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<v Speaker 1>the addiction to drugs and his life started to unravel. Billy,

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<v Speaker 1>let's let's take it up to when it really did

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<v Speaker 1>it unravel? When you get a knock at the door

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<v Speaker 1>or you get locked up. What happened?

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<v Speaker 2>I was getting really indeed mold with this year destruct

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<v Speaker 2>making loads of mistake shows, buying phones because of paranoid

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<v Speaker 2>that people were listening to me the start as they

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<v Speaker 2>really get paramoid on this store, had I a room

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<v Speaker 2>full of weapons and the enemies. I've lost loads of weights.

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<v Speaker 2>I could probably hang glads off that skinny, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>I made the adda of mostly there would say boxers

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<v Speaker 2>started befriended. That was I was saying a bit in

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<v Speaker 2>the past. And there was this one ago are you?

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<v Speaker 2>It used to give all the time, but he never did,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. And the last the last time we asked you,

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<v Speaker 2>I said, now giving you on and then he phones

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<v Speaker 2>me up. I don't even know what time was it

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<v Speaker 2>answer phone, It must have been ten am whatever, saying

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<v Speaker 2>to me on the phone, biddy, I have your shows,

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<v Speaker 2>your training shows that in my my taxi because you

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<v Speaker 2>had a talk too. I was like, yeah, yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>was asleep. You know, they bring them to you. It's okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So where I would follow them where I was with

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<v Speaker 2>a partner to was and I'll put the phones on

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<v Speaker 2>the minute to put the phones on. And I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>why is he around me? Why is he? Why is he? Where?

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<v Speaker 2>Does he want to go out of his way to

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<v Speaker 2>bring me something? What's his motors? And I looked around

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<v Speaker 2>the room. He had cannabis stare. He had a room

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<v Speaker 2>full of weapons. Like I said, I had a cold

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<v Speaker 2>forty five or stonegull samurai shorts. It was just ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 2>Who told me Toda to go to the toe.

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<v Speaker 1>And have a little lookus just didn't feel right.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, and I've seen these our members up the stairs,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and the way dressed in please attire, but

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<v Speaker 2>a new straight away to it on the cover please.

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<v Speaker 2>And I shut the door, and a panicked, and I

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<v Speaker 2>grabbed the pillows and I grabbed the candish, and I

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<v Speaker 2>shoved down with the shoulders and shine and I shouted

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<v Speaker 2>with me back to the door. And looked around the

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<v Speaker 2>shan theo and thoughts, oh my god, there's a there's

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<v Speaker 2>a gun on the table laid there's this weapons. What

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to do? And they were bagging on the

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<v Speaker 2>door and I was stolen. There was no way out

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<v Speaker 2>to do. I was on the fourth floor. There was

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<v Speaker 2>no windsor to be shing from the back way waved.

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<v Speaker 2>It was up to the veranda where they were standing,

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<v Speaker 2>so just that they were please. So I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>can you prove it? Can you show me any id?

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<v Speaker 2>And the carts laid under the door. I didn't even

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<v Speaker 2>have to look at it, and please anyway, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know why I was starting, what it was doing with that.

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<v Speaker 2>I grab a few more moments going over the door.

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<v Speaker 2>They were on the floor. The attacked me, put me

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<v Speaker 2>in a position, but he put cuffs on me, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>give me a few slaps and then started rather room

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<v Speaker 2>shadily and picking things up look for the drug with

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<v Speaker 2>the drugs. He didn't find any drugs. They found a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of paraphernalia, but it broke DUTs visible. I to

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<v Speaker 2>the gun, the guy they used them the slogan he

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<v Speaker 2>pulled out to go. He started to pil up these

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<v Speaker 2>mobile phones. I didn't know what was getting down in

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<v Speaker 2>the background as you back master into this court yard

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<v Speaker 2>and put into this police fan I'm taking to the

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<v Speaker 2>local police division, put in this shell that was that

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I was in there for tea.

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<v Speaker 1>When were you When were you taking it to the prison?

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<v Speaker 1>What what's the processes you kept in caustody with the place?

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<v Speaker 1>When when did you end up in the prison.

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<v Speaker 2>So what happened right was when I was in the

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<v Speaker 2>police fan, I was explaining to that see what happens

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<v Speaker 2>to me? I tell you know. And whether it be

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<v Speaker 2>you don't allowed.

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<v Speaker 1>Leave the country, can't bet yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Months you can going to visa. Don't want a month

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<v Speaker 2>the may man whatever, just to get a samp come

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<v Speaker 2>back and bang bow. You can do that after three months.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's the team ons. You gotta leave the cosey.

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<v Speaker 2>So I have to lead the comy for tuesdays and

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<v Speaker 2>come back. Do you have a team of visa left

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<v Speaker 2>the country on a Friday, was coming back on a Monday.

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<v Speaker 2>By coming back on they have a team month visa.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't have to go to the boorders every every month,

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<v Speaker 2>but on that the Friday was shape for buying me

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<v Speaker 2>Yaba pills over the Aca was the tea best apport,

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<v Speaker 2>all the Yaba pills. They hope you got a boat

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<v Speaker 2>as well. I was smoke and I thought I was

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<v Speaker 2>kinda bit shup of time. He and I was going

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<v Speaker 2>a bike out of defenses because it was quite used

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<v Speaker 2>to vetting. Little hold. I was driving on the wrong

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<v Speaker 2>side of the road. No, he had this whistling, A

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<v Speaker 2>couple of gales standing on the corner. They were whistling.

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<v Speaker 2>It is actually man, I looked, you know, by the

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<v Speaker 2>time I look back, there was a show Taxi's heading

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<v Speaker 2>my way. I never had the chance to stop. I was,

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<v Speaker 2>I was. There was a collision. I was heading into it. Hey,

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<v Speaker 2>David made the bike. I was on winning. They just

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<v Speaker 2>flew right in the eight under on my chests. The

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<v Speaker 2>shaft hees broke me. The putting me long because at

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<v Speaker 2>the amber bable right through the summar the shadow, I

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<v Speaker 2>mean literally both the summer. You know, I couldn't breathe,

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<v Speaker 2>and I remember the these Moatians started picking me up

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<v Speaker 2>and put short water down me thrown, you know, do

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<v Speaker 2>things to me, and I have what's going on here?

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<v Speaker 2>What the what the fuck are you doing here? And

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<v Speaker 2>they ate the Irish actions, laying malone and every y malone.

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<v Speaker 2>And he put me in this wheelbarrow, that he should

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<v Speaker 2>get him liberty the horsball and put me in a

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<v Speaker 2>wheel barrow. There was bloodpoorting mounts of everywhere. There was

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<v Speaker 2>at this shrafter with a blood dained jacket, play both

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<v Speaker 2>of a pen with these shoe shoulders shaded with banana clicks,

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<v Speaker 2>taking pictures of me. And they're verstrowing me that I

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<v Speaker 2>had a big cook the bay becausing my lunch must

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<v Speaker 2>have they moved. They have bowled from me, from me

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<v Speaker 2>long at the time, and I have to breathe. And

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<v Speaker 2>he said to this this this the shot shall to

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<v Speaker 2>get me out of you, because what was going through

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<v Speaker 2>my bus. You had a thousand gabba pills and you

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<v Speaker 2>put it. And I was thinking, these huge soldiers are year.

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<v Speaker 2>They were just there because he has a big shure.

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<v Speaker 2>It was okay. It was a national. He got me

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<v Speaker 2>to his the partments in a low because he was

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<v Speaker 2>a T shirt over there proposed me until in the

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<v Speaker 2>morning I was in I was in a mess. It

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<v Speaker 2>was ever very bad backstage and stayed at the hospital Laypacrimos.

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<v Speaker 2>I was in a bad back plate in front of

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<v Speaker 2>the prison.

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<v Speaker 1>So you and those those injuries hadn't fully recovered.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, they ended up having two shares of

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<v Speaker 2>co operations in the same prison.

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<v Speaker 1>Jesus, that's that's not what you want. Yeah, okay, so

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<v Speaker 1>you banged up the bike accident before you're locked up. Now, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you've they've they've got you with phones and weapons or

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<v Speaker 1>weapon or whatever. What's the time were you're realistically looking

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<v Speaker 1>at doing?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I had no idea, really, I had no idea.

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<v Speaker 2>I had like images of like imagining myself. Do you

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<v Speaker 2>like ten to fifteen maybe you know that kind of

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<v Speaker 2>double figures. The protests have gone from the b station's

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<v Speaker 2>court to about Creasy's and went to court. I was

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<v Speaker 2>taking into a cord with another standard waves got taken

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<v Speaker 2>two changed my prison on this boat. But dish diesel

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<v Speaker 2>being meats and they institution into the prison established us.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, Flip Chase was a showered in front of

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<v Speaker 2>these prison officer shoes for the bowl on the whistel.

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<v Speaker 2>The whistles gone. You're putting bowls of water on you,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you're washing your shels on and it was

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<v Speaker 2>it was late, it was all like what mad by

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<v Speaker 2>this time. Then we had to squat on the floor

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<v Speaker 2>and four others had to share a ball of ration,

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<v Speaker 2>some some meal that we couldn't even describe. And a

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<v Speaker 2>stone gets cold and swarge hovering and above it and

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<v Speaker 2>mistinking that comes from there. And we will lease mass

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<v Speaker 2>into this shell cell block the induction style. That's where

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<v Speaker 2>name you know that I said in part one has

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<v Speaker 2>to sleep nest of this dish games And this lady

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<v Speaker 2>boy called Siffany. You want these big musht breasts and

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<v Speaker 2>this boot shoe which shed nor money nor buddy.

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<v Speaker 1>They're all part of the prison. They're inmates in there,

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<v Speaker 1>lady boys.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the de have all parts of the prison which

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<v Speaker 2>places would have been there at the same So, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>there was a fief experience, to say the least.

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<v Speaker 1>When you when you say freaky, it seems like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a horror experience going in there, and it's something

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<v Speaker 1>completely foreign and the environment that's foreign to But also

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<v Speaker 1>you would be standing standing out. There wouldn't be that

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<v Speaker 1>many foreigners in there, and everyone you know your way

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<v Speaker 1>around prison. You don't show weakness. You're in a foreign jail.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't really understand the rules. Did you have fear

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<v Speaker 1>for your life? Like I don't think I'm being too dramatically.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you wonder whether you're going to survive?

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<v Speaker 2>Plenty times? Plenty of times? Being game? I was. I

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<v Speaker 2>was latter to revel that I was the cause. And

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<v Speaker 2>I'm verieing the actors, you know, and if you speaking

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<v Speaker 2>to me and miss Gene Gonci and it was then

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<v Speaker 2>and you know I've asked because as only as a pastime,

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<v Speaker 2>I've been bullied to shed some of an early aid

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<v Speaker 2>call up. But I wasn't taking a number. So you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I come where I stood, you know, be ground with anyone.

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<v Speaker 2>Couldn't care that you was. But that was the problem

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<v Speaker 2>with me up shape the environments, you know, kept quiet,

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<v Speaker 2>rational face, see what was going on. It was like

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<v Speaker 2>going to a football stadium. You know, the way you

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<v Speaker 2>walked it was huge, there was you know, it was

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<v Speaker 2>it was really it was. It was overwhelmed with the meats.

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<v Speaker 1>How many Knights are in there?

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<v Speaker 2>It was and they had four thousand in meats.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so that's a that's a big prison in any

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<v Speaker 1>for either here or over in the UK. That's huge.

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<v Speaker 2>So you can imagine this was like this was like

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<v Speaker 2>sheds to a shell.

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<v Speaker 1>And here I was reading something that there was just

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<v Speaker 1>looking at the dimensions you're talking about. I self twenty

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<v Speaker 1>five football fifteen feet, which is four meters by say

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<v Speaker 1>three and eighty prisoners that that top.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think even those of three to drop the

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<v Speaker 2>middle and the bottom?

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<v Speaker 1>Ah? Right, okay, in low show.

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<v Speaker 2>You you'd be you'd have to come all down, have

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<v Speaker 2>the legs of Brad Browns and you'd wake up. And

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<v Speaker 2>if someone hugging yet and what's going on? It was?

0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:23.439
<v Speaker 2>It was all what I mean, you had no escape

0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:27.280
<v Speaker 2>and the way pain was if you have to go

0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:31.120
<v Speaker 2>to the holy really, I was, you've got to death

0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:34.880
<v Speaker 2>over It was way playing it a fucking game of

0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:36.840
<v Speaker 2>trying to find a gap because you have to step

0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:40.800
<v Speaker 2>over the body to get your bits of calabrity. And

0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:45.640
<v Speaker 2>it was I remember bounding on a few people's feat

0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.679
<v Speaker 2>and arms and that's mean. But not one of them

0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:52.199
<v Speaker 2>reac think pip off, which was I think they were

0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:53.160
<v Speaker 2>all understandingly.

0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:57.040
<v Speaker 1>I suppose I cast them to it. But yeah, yeah,

0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:01.240
<v Speaker 1>we've always leave just just on that surviving and going

0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:03.240
<v Speaker 1>to the toilet. I imagine the food that you're eating

0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:05.800
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't be agreeing with your stomach much so there would

0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.280
<v Speaker 1>have been a lot of sickness from it.

0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:13.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely the entirety year. And I remember, like the

0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:15.840
<v Speaker 2>trollt You've got eighty people by the way in the slot.

0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:19.080
<v Speaker 2>You've got to chaste on the troll and be like

0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.120
<v Speaker 2>them all looking like you understanding there and the troll

0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.080
<v Speaker 2>to you, Well, you're like, this is embarrassing. You know,

0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:25.760
<v Speaker 2>this is the highest show up chession.

0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:28.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, you know, little toy here.

0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.839
<v Speaker 2>For lang for lang for lank em in there'm I

0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, oh, you know the speaking seeing in this language.

0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.319
<v Speaker 2>You've got the way here? What sha you know? You

0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:40.560
<v Speaker 2>just go away? I just want to use the trolling

0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:44.319
<v Speaker 2>and PC but you can't. You know, you've got a

0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:48.240
<v Speaker 2>bin next to the toilet which everyone washes. It washes

0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.679
<v Speaker 2>the ash with, washes the teeth with, washing the place

0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:56.080
<v Speaker 2>with all your chances that I've got. Yeah, you think

0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:57.960
<v Speaker 2>this is dis questioning, you know what I mean?

0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:01.199
<v Speaker 1>Well, I know what your mind just the way you're

0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:04.040
<v Speaker 1>describing it. So what attitude did you hold to survive

0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:06.320
<v Speaker 1>in there? Like you said you were you the arc

0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.480
<v Speaker 1>ap like you wouldn't take ship from anyone? Is that, No,

0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:12.920
<v Speaker 1>you're suss the situation there and then stand up for yourself.

0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:15.480
<v Speaker 1>I would imagine you would have got into quite a

0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:16.280
<v Speaker 1>few fights, isn't it.

0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:20.640
<v Speaker 2>She was a few foreigners, right, It's not many would

0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:25.199
<v Speaker 2>have bumped into an Australian guy. There was. There was

0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.400
<v Speaker 2>Australians and an Iranian that was bullying everyone.

0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:32.319
<v Speaker 1>I heard that in your book. Billy gave him a

0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:33.880
<v Speaker 1>good spray. You didn't like him.

0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:38.280
<v Speaker 2>And there was a Menathon, an Italian John Andaldo. They

0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.520
<v Speaker 2>were they were quite old. That's been probably my ease

0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:44.600
<v Speaker 2>now back then, you know, and they were all fit,

0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:48.640
<v Speaker 2>physically overweighted, you know what I mean. They were harmless,

0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.880
<v Speaker 2>but they were getting a hard time barely off these

0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:57.120
<v Speaker 2>these young you're Australians. Me being me, I was listening

0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:00.559
<v Speaker 2>to this, you know, through the show, because there's no

0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:02.839
<v Speaker 2>doors and throw the gates. You should, you know, you

0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:06.920
<v Speaker 2>should see what's going on and I should look leave.

0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:09.240
<v Speaker 2>And I was saying, in give them a rest, you

0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:15.400
<v Speaker 2>know from our only know our own culture agent. Can

0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:19.000
<v Speaker 2>you be just taking easy on them? And you know

0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:20.920
<v Speaker 2>there was they were. They was travel at me and

0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:22.800
<v Speaker 2>I was shotting back at them, and like whatever you

0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.080
<v Speaker 2>seen in the morning to that. Then in the morning

0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:29.720
<v Speaker 2>them should have me and they she just went off.

0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:31.560
<v Speaker 2>I ended up fighting with them all give it as

0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:34.640
<v Speaker 2>good as we go. God, I've got a good ide

0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:38.760
<v Speaker 2>and white Brook I'll still be ground. By doing that,

0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.320
<v Speaker 2>I ended up getting removed from the western part of

0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:46.680
<v Speaker 2>the Pisian culture, the tires and Westerns, Westerners mixed to

0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:52.040
<v Speaker 2>just the type population. This became very did you and like?

0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:54.680
<v Speaker 1>And it would have had to be earned, But did you?

0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.440
<v Speaker 1>Did people leave your line? Did you? Everyone's going to

0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:01.040
<v Speaker 1>take advantage if there's a weakness in prison, someone's gonna

0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.960
<v Speaker 1>sweep on it. Did you hold your own through?

0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:09.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeahs nave for me for lang bar, it's crazy go

0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:11.000
<v Speaker 2>it because it was always.

0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.920
<v Speaker 1>By Okay, that's probably a good reputation of carrying there.

0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:18.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, sure they just fang bar. Just people wave only crazy.

0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:20.960
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:24.560
<v Speaker 2>I was very volatile that if we have to fighte

0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:28.920
<v Speaker 2>with anyone and everyone taking drugs getting in jest, I've

0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:31.480
<v Speaker 2>witnessed a few horrible things in there. People getting raped.

0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they were in your in the movie. There's a

0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:41.040
<v Speaker 1>signe and it's fairly graphic in the someone getting dragged

0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:44.920
<v Speaker 1>off and raped in in the toilets or in one

0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.040
<v Speaker 1>of the cells. That would have been fairly frequent in

0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:49.560
<v Speaker 1>prison like that, I would imagine.

0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:51.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was that was that was a regular occerdence.

0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:54.520
<v Speaker 2>You know, people committed shoe It was another thing. You know,

0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:56.920
<v Speaker 2>you walk past the shell and you see, you know,

0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.880
<v Speaker 2>someone anger off the bars and what my thing was

0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.200
<v Speaker 2>used to have like a twenty four hour watching the show,

0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:05.800
<v Speaker 2>so you know you have and then mate sitting off

0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:08.880
<v Speaker 2>hour after hour watching the nest of the inmates because

0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:13.120
<v Speaker 2>colectively as a shell, if anyone you know died, then

0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:15.040
<v Speaker 2>you'd get published. And that was one of the rules.

0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.880
<v Speaker 2>You couldn't make super shy, ye had they? I think

0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:19.840
<v Speaker 2>it was sense aswelve rules that they shouts over the

0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.440
<v Speaker 2>tower no feeling that she learns of course, you know,

0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:28.680
<v Speaker 2>no shoe shod and he's going to be asked. So yeah,

0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.000
<v Speaker 2>I've done a presiding every morning. You'd have to stand

0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:34.600
<v Speaker 2>to attention to, you know, the national lantern while the

0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:35.800
<v Speaker 2>flag was being raised.

0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:38.040
<v Speaker 1>Did you did you start to pick up the language?

0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:40.240
<v Speaker 1>Did you learn learn the language in there?

0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Because I needed medication feeling I was getting all

0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:46.880
<v Speaker 2>the wrong medication at the time, and I was like

0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.120
<v Speaker 2>sand explained that I needed painkillers and not parta someone

0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.360
<v Speaker 2>that needed op bait pain killers because you had these injuries.

0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:57.560
<v Speaker 2>Who's going with Candice. I was already addicted to opiots anyway,

0:16:57.600 --> 0:16:59.960
<v Speaker 2>and I was getting high off them, so you know,

0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:03.920
<v Speaker 2>it was another of bonus Sol's just be that happened,

0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:08.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, and just be here, I'd say, enough that clue.

0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:14.480
<v Speaker 2>It's dense because the batter the reading rated reading race

0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:18.680
<v Speaker 2>because I was bored and there was no English. Letisacial.

0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:20.760
<v Speaker 2>You know, it was all about I have read it

0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:24.240
<v Speaker 2>would be the bit of tay, which is useless anyway

0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:27.000
<v Speaker 2>because I don't understand it as much as it force

0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:27.440
<v Speaker 2>would like to.

0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:30.280
<v Speaker 1>But it started to pick it, pick it up.

0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I picked it up with them once.

0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.600
<v Speaker 1>I suppose in that environment give you an advantage anyway

0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:40.080
<v Speaker 1>to to understand or make life a little bit easier. Yeah,

0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:45.120
<v Speaker 1>when it was more force, Yeah, well you got you've

0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:49.000
<v Speaker 1>got no option. Yeah. You talked about saying people get

0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:53.200
<v Speaker 1>sexually assaulted and and violence. There was one and I

0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:56.000
<v Speaker 1>think it's in one interview that I've read that you

0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.240
<v Speaker 1>did where someone was chased down and just stabbed to

0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.960
<v Speaker 1>death in in in front of you do you want

0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:04.480
<v Speaker 1>to just tell us through that story just to get

0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.800
<v Speaker 1>to give people an understanding of what we're talking about here.

0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:11.119
<v Speaker 1>This is not the this is yeah, this is a

0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:13.960
<v Speaker 1>violent world that you're inhabiting in a prison like this.

0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, what happened is I've got central prisons.

0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:19.680
<v Speaker 1>It's a worse reputation, isn't.

0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well I had like eighteen thousand and makes eighteen

0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:24.879
<v Speaker 2>to twenty thousand. It may see, it was a bigger complex.

0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.919
<v Speaker 2>It was along more violence that they had shutting size

0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:33.120
<v Speaker 2>Northern size and censil sage. You know, Muslims in there

0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:39.200
<v Speaker 2>that I've overfielded, different Westerners in there, Australians and Meta Hills, Ranians, Guines,

0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:44.680
<v Speaker 2>you had. The nationalities were saying there's quite quiz a

0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:46.040
<v Speaker 2>lover of them in there, and and most of the

0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:50.240
<v Speaker 2>nationalalysies shame buildings being so we have a fousand and

0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:54.000
<v Speaker 2>it may saish one unit when I was and I

0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:57.440
<v Speaker 2>never really got along with Potows with the ties in

0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:01.520
<v Speaker 2>the end, and remember we were ship in the library.

0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:03.879
<v Speaker 2>It was hot as well as there's always want to

0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:07.639
<v Speaker 2>force his ring egg on the pavements. We get a

0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:09.560
<v Speaker 2>little bit of schad to the za and they knew

0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:11.399
<v Speaker 2>there was a few like little gangs there. There was

0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:13.760
<v Speaker 2>this young lady used to have a bandanner see with

0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.200
<v Speaker 2>the bands, and so we stood out and his chop

0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:20.080
<v Speaker 2>for bands and had to use all over them and

0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:23.920
<v Speaker 2>the roll zig zagging. And then he came and running

0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:28.680
<v Speaker 2>packed his library, you know, one afternoon and he was

0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.879
<v Speaker 2>gaming and he had the the fliff flocks scheiders on.

0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:34.760
<v Speaker 2>He had had m you know, flopping as he was running,

0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:37.199
<v Speaker 2>and there was a guy running behind him with her

0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:41.399
<v Speaker 2>with a mite. You know, it was quite big. This

0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:45.119
<v Speaker 2>is mad days. Then Warnin's drowning. There's a guy that

0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:47.520
<v Speaker 2>high guy from running out from next to me with

0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.440
<v Speaker 2>a chair, one of them metal chairs with wooden sheets

0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:54.040
<v Speaker 2>like an old steel shir shruggling out and he whacked

0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:57.960
<v Speaker 2>this this guy with the bandanner right across the chest.

0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:02.200
<v Speaker 2>His claps it's for the guys on him and he

0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:04.159
<v Speaker 2>starts stabbing him. But it's like and it was like

0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:08.200
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't like it was like cold and calculated and

0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:11.200
<v Speaker 2>there with death shots and he was targeting like his lunch,

0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:14.359
<v Speaker 2>his neck, you know, they were going in very deep

0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:17.840
<v Speaker 2>and he could the inhumans that will come up from

0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:23.040
<v Speaker 2>this the bows of this man's game. This was done.

0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:24.719
<v Speaker 2>It was like it was it was, it was had

0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:26.400
<v Speaker 2>a flying it was wow.

0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:26.879
<v Speaker 1>It was a.

0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:32.639
<v Speaker 2>Frightening I all have to do with today. I was

0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:36.200
<v Speaker 2>just locked in and the crowd starts as a form

0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:39.960
<v Speaker 2>and it was late about forty to fifty people, even

0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:43.840
<v Speaker 2>arm arm and the new roof tired the science to

0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:45.800
<v Speaker 2>understand what they was shoting. That was Shane, kill him,

0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:49.840
<v Speaker 2>kill him, killing the interesting, encourageing him and you know,

0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:54.359
<v Speaker 2>he was just stopping the wistful blue everyone of the

0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:57.760
<v Speaker 2>space and his boss was left in a pool of blows.

0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:01.560
<v Speaker 2>And I'm saying Mary and passing felt guilty for not intervening.

0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.960
<v Speaker 2>But at the same time of the databeat line and

0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:10.400
<v Speaker 2>I replayed that moment vividly in my mind every night

0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:13.760
<v Speaker 2>while it was in Michelle and in Bangkok, I couldn't

0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:19.359
<v Speaker 2>sleep with Ketley vision repeating. They show motion that was

0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:22.320
<v Speaker 2>quite like you always yeah, you didn't shock and everything

0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:27.280
<v Speaker 2>show motion like valuable life was and how they devalue

0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:30.560
<v Speaker 2>because the guy who got you know, Core for stabbing

0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:32.560
<v Speaker 2>this kid and killing and we ended up getting four

0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:38.360
<v Speaker 2>years for the Yeah, I think that was the maximum

0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:41.520
<v Speaker 2>that could give, you know, made.

0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:49.119
<v Speaker 1>Vision different, different world. There was another with the gangs

0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:54.200
<v Speaker 1>in there. I read with the samurais infected.

0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:58.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they had them. They were like they had ahead

0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:01.560
<v Speaker 2>of the Yeah, although they would time. I never why

0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:02.879
<v Speaker 2>they called them shemage.

0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:05.960
<v Speaker 1>So what was there again? They are hi very infected

0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:08.000
<v Speaker 1>and would threaten people with syringes and.

0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:11.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they were injecting their shells with would make shifted

0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:15.760
<v Speaker 2>engines made out of barerel. Shame they can improvised a

0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:18.520
<v Speaker 2>very clever since the main line of those who were

0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:21.800
<v Speaker 2>doing what they could, they were like they were covered

0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:23.960
<v Speaker 2>in tattoos from heads to top. But they were very

0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:27.959
<v Speaker 2>very late. Guinny you romnsic case. And you know there

0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:30.520
<v Speaker 2>were roads at the hospital once a weeks to pay

0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:34.240
<v Speaker 2>for pace ivy medication. You know, I remember they getting

0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:37.359
<v Speaker 2>in debt with them over over drugs over ahead of

0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:42.359
<v Speaker 2>them edything again usual couldn't stop, you know, it was

0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:46.280
<v Speaker 2>they were just in his shape. You know, they pulled

0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:50.680
<v Speaker 2>us a shringe full of blood, but were really a

0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:53.960
<v Speaker 2>bit of floats off everything, pay the chests, pulling home

0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:56.639
<v Speaker 2>drums out for the having me with rape one violent

0:22:56.760 --> 0:23:00.880
<v Speaker 2>physical abuse and it was just they was just kind

0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:04.560
<v Speaker 2>of it. That's very fright. It got to a point

0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:07.719
<v Speaker 2>better force. I'm going to tell you I really am.

0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:12.000
<v Speaker 2>I was getting to a point of turtle of shepts

0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:20.000
<v Speaker 2>in this Perasian beer. I didn't think of there ghettos alive. Yeah,

0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:21.560
<v Speaker 2>that's where I was at one point.

0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:25.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't think it's some reasonable belie describing the environment

0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:29.640
<v Speaker 1>you were in. That's yeah, very ununderstandable. And I said

0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:32.600
<v Speaker 1>at the start, say it throughout. I think the human

0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:36.639
<v Speaker 1>spirit's amazing because the situation you found in mate, you

0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:39.919
<v Speaker 1>didn't have much going for you. It would have been easier,

0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:43.440
<v Speaker 1>the path might assumed easier. Just okay, well if I

0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:46.560
<v Speaker 1>die here, I get some peace, but you you found

0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:50.959
<v Speaker 1>some degree of salvation and purpose getting back into your

0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:54.080
<v Speaker 1>fighting in my tie. What what happened then?

0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:57.560
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I got into a lot of faith again.

0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:02.240
<v Speaker 2>One of the pleasure officers, he was fond of me.

0:24:03.040 --> 0:24:06.119
<v Speaker 2>He gave me the suggestion, and I thought, okay, just

0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:09.400
<v Speaker 2>total by the weather spoke to you know, the box

0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:12.879
<v Speaker 2>and the gi. Yeah, he kind of refused me, and

0:24:13.000 --> 0:24:15.920
<v Speaker 2>see gave him he she get it you again. He

0:24:16.040 --> 0:24:17.800
<v Speaker 2>let me in. I got a pair of mates, started

0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:19.640
<v Speaker 2>it in the back. You know, when I went every

0:24:19.720 --> 0:24:21.520
<v Speaker 2>day and on a davy basis. She started as a

0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:25.000
<v Speaker 2>feeling every stronger than this city. I was laughing a

0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:27.680
<v Speaker 2>bit more with me and Durance, and you know, and

0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:30.359
<v Speaker 2>then the starts to speak to them. The starts to

0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:32.640
<v Speaker 2>speak to me, and I became really friendly with them.

0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:35.080
<v Speaker 2>He starts to talking about the theentire New Year and

0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:38.000
<v Speaker 2>where they get involved in, you know, moveside competition with

0:24:38.040 --> 0:24:40.600
<v Speaker 2>the best of the best in their prison. And I said, yeah,

0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:43.240
<v Speaker 2>go on. He moved me as a a shell. But

0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:45.560
<v Speaker 2>she'd call a home that geeler, which was the sports

0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:49.880
<v Speaker 2>and it sounds very very good. You're only sports shell.

0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:52.880
<v Speaker 2>That's okay, you get better, Tod. There's lesson in mats

0:24:52.920 --> 0:24:56.879
<v Speaker 2>in there. There's a bit of cammaraderie, ship and a

0:24:56.920 --> 0:24:59.600
<v Speaker 2>bit of units. He colectively. I felt a little that

0:24:59.720 --> 0:25:05.720
<v Speaker 2>taste uh rol moves in. Unless started to become a

0:25:05.760 --> 0:25:09.040
<v Speaker 2>little bit better. You know, I was eating well and

0:25:09.200 --> 0:25:11.840
<v Speaker 2>I was on a good relationship basis with the rest

0:25:11.880 --> 0:25:14.480
<v Speaker 2>of these size do you say boxers. It was just

0:25:14.560 --> 0:25:18.080
<v Speaker 2>an incredible feeling. It was like the season and the

0:25:18.160 --> 0:25:23.720
<v Speaker 2>applause and the chaptains had gone left somebody, Yeah, I

0:25:24.040 --> 0:25:29.800
<v Speaker 2>can understand. Yeah, they had this choicely moments as belonging, not.

0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:33.639
<v Speaker 1>Just belonging to you, you get some respect back about yourself.

0:25:33.680 --> 0:25:37.000
<v Speaker 1>I would imagine the whole whole thing an environment that

0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:40.560
<v Speaker 1>you feel comfortable in and you're respected for the effort

0:25:40.600 --> 0:25:43.080
<v Speaker 1>that you put in, if it's in the boxing gym

0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:49.240
<v Speaker 1>like that. But yeah, it's it's incredible that what you've

0:25:49.280 --> 0:25:51.240
<v Speaker 1>been through and you can look back at this and

0:25:51.400 --> 0:25:53.639
<v Speaker 1>and and talk about how did it get to the

0:25:53.680 --> 0:25:55.800
<v Speaker 1>point where it was the prisoner transfer when you went

0:25:55.880 --> 0:25:58.240
<v Speaker 1>back to the UK prison you spent three years in

0:25:58.800 --> 0:26:00.359
<v Speaker 1>entire prisons roughly?

0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:02.439
<v Speaker 2>Was that the Yeah, that's they're pretty easy. I mean,

0:26:02.480 --> 0:26:04.680
<v Speaker 2>it's not a hell of a long time. You know,

0:26:04.720 --> 0:26:05.600
<v Speaker 2>if you look at.

0:26:06.720 --> 0:26:08.840
<v Speaker 1>From where I'm sitting in a way you described it,

0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:10.880
<v Speaker 1>it's a long fucking three years.

0:26:10.960 --> 0:26:12.880
<v Speaker 2>You know, I think I'm read for a way that way.

0:26:13.560 --> 0:26:16.520
<v Speaker 2>You know, a year in a Thai prison compare to

0:26:16.680 --> 0:26:19.360
<v Speaker 2>ten years in the in the US. Tennant sensity. Yeah,

0:26:20.359 --> 0:26:22.200
<v Speaker 2>you can look at like because it was that Austin

0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:24.880
<v Speaker 2>and it was that bad. It was run by inmates,

0:26:24.960 --> 0:26:28.800
<v Speaker 2>the pigeons. It was quite volatile and violence every day.

0:26:28.800 --> 0:26:30.119
<v Speaker 2>It was like a fight, you know what I mean.

0:26:30.520 --> 0:26:33.399
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you survived that. To get through the dy and

0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:35.040
<v Speaker 1>survive is an achievement.

0:26:35.280 --> 0:26:38.280
<v Speaker 2>I'd wake open the day who knows Regardian It was

0:26:38.640 --> 0:26:42.680
<v Speaker 2>a hypnotic beat travel right the prision and it was inmates,

0:26:44.119 --> 0:26:47.639
<v Speaker 2>the Buddists praying bace. After that, he did, you know

0:26:47.760 --> 0:26:50.520
<v Speaker 2>that the Fajar is when we called the player, and

0:26:50.720 --> 0:26:52.959
<v Speaker 2>so you did these that the Muslims praying, and then

0:26:53.000 --> 0:26:56.800
<v Speaker 2>the Buddhist praying and people are praying, you know, and

0:26:56.880 --> 0:26:59.440
<v Speaker 2>then the doors opening, you know, leads into this and

0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:02.440
<v Speaker 2>to the gates of hell, you know, where there's like

0:27:02.640 --> 0:27:05.560
<v Speaker 2>market stores and people living on Lately, he'd say on

0:27:05.640 --> 0:27:06.000
<v Speaker 2>the top of.

0:27:07.160 --> 0:27:11.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm really interested in the fact that I didn't

0:27:11.119 --> 0:27:13.960
<v Speaker 1>realize that was the basis of the name of the

0:27:14.320 --> 0:27:16.160
<v Speaker 1>movie in the book. But that makes a lot of sense,

0:27:16.200 --> 0:27:19.040
<v Speaker 1>and you've created that image very well. I can imagine

0:27:19.040 --> 0:27:21.480
<v Speaker 1>it waking up to that type.

0:27:21.280 --> 0:27:24.119
<v Speaker 2>Of just wait, they've just beached the wake up. They'll

0:27:24.720 --> 0:27:28.040
<v Speaker 2>slowly be coming through the windows. And it was just

0:27:28.119 --> 0:27:30.680
<v Speaker 2>before the all or the fourth place. Every morning it

0:27:30.840 --> 0:27:34.119
<v Speaker 2>waked me up in the place. In the beginning, it

0:27:34.200 --> 0:27:36.840
<v Speaker 2>was annoying, but then it became shows that they comfort

0:27:37.880 --> 0:27:39.680
<v Speaker 2>and then it go. I was unlitially what had happened

0:27:39.720 --> 0:27:42.080
<v Speaker 2>into the place system, but yeah, the pasted the ace.

0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:46.000
<v Speaker 2>It was after three years, you know, the embassy were

0:27:46.040 --> 0:27:49.520
<v Speaker 2>coming up on a regular basis. You know, it eventually came,

0:27:50.200 --> 0:27:51.720
<v Speaker 2>but it was a bit of a It was a

0:27:51.760 --> 0:27:53.400
<v Speaker 2>bit of a tough time. It was a cheap out

0:27:53.520 --> 0:27:58.320
<v Speaker 2>of ten in March two and ten and Bangkok at

0:27:58.359 --> 0:28:03.800
<v Speaker 2>the time was on fire. People were shutting brain I

0:28:03.920 --> 0:28:04.320
<v Speaker 2>remember that.

0:28:04.480 --> 0:28:06.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, it was like there.

0:28:06.440 --> 0:28:09.240
<v Speaker 2>Was like a political party, the Red, the Red, the

0:28:09.320 --> 0:28:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Yellows or something then so people were shotting fire as

0:28:13.040 --> 0:28:17.159
<v Speaker 2>the buildings do. A block in the airport. Bangkok was

0:28:17.240 --> 0:28:20.959
<v Speaker 2>your upthrow Tyland was It was a mess. I had

0:28:21.000 --> 0:28:24.720
<v Speaker 2>this twice, a date that had been given to me,

0:28:25.560 --> 0:28:29.439
<v Speaker 2>and it was I think it was the twenty twenty

0:28:29.520 --> 0:28:32.440
<v Speaker 2>seven to short of mark. That day came and of

0:28:32.560 --> 0:28:36.040
<v Speaker 2>being excited to go, and and it got canceled because

0:28:36.119 --> 0:28:41.280
<v Speaker 2>of the airport was surrounded by a political mession protest

0:28:42.320 --> 0:28:45.120
<v Speaker 2>protesters in the and and the I fell and I

0:28:45.200 --> 0:28:48.360
<v Speaker 2>thought that's it, sending me back. But then a couple

0:28:48.400 --> 0:28:52.680
<v Speaker 2>of days later, without any notice, I was called so

0:28:52.880 --> 0:28:57.000
<v Speaker 2>we called up his sell and taken to reception and

0:28:57.160 --> 0:29:02.200
<v Speaker 2>putting this quite. I'm come from like this grimy, deady

0:29:03.960 --> 0:29:08.880
<v Speaker 2>environments into the christ Gleaming room with a big oval

0:29:09.000 --> 0:29:14.040
<v Speaker 2>table with these supersishisial officers shipping on both sides, the

0:29:14.120 --> 0:29:19.720
<v Speaker 2>Prevision Governor and May and a few of the Vision

0:29:19.880 --> 0:29:21.280
<v Speaker 2>or forties sit in there.

0:29:22.040 --> 0:29:25.760
<v Speaker 1>Your senses must be like this is this is crazy

0:29:26.040 --> 0:29:26.640
<v Speaker 1>because it was just.

0:29:26.720 --> 0:29:29.600
<v Speaker 2>Cheering of me. It was it was it was the

0:29:29.720 --> 0:29:32.120
<v Speaker 2>handing over to the British policies. It was just jello

0:29:32.160 --> 0:29:34.520
<v Speaker 2>of me. So you know they make a big show

0:29:34.600 --> 0:29:37.800
<v Speaker 2>and sad like passing your onto to the British. The

0:29:37.880 --> 0:29:43.760
<v Speaker 2>fabrics and you know I was taken from one to immigration,

0:29:44.720 --> 0:29:50.040
<v Speaker 2>stayed in there five Chike showers and Sony flight with you.

0:29:50.240 --> 0:29:53.000
<v Speaker 2>And it was midnight and I was taken to the

0:29:53.080 --> 0:29:55.840
<v Speaker 2>airport by these che personal officers and you know I

0:29:55.960 --> 0:29:59.280
<v Speaker 2>was handcuffed and they bought meal mass ls, you know,

0:29:59.440 --> 0:30:04.760
<v Speaker 2>the quite sorry for asking me questions. Yeah, they've got

0:30:04.840 --> 0:30:07.640
<v Speaker 2>a plane going on the plane as well that Jamie

0:30:07.680 --> 0:30:10.000
<v Speaker 2>back to the UK. And you know it was freezing

0:30:10.040 --> 0:30:12.640
<v Speaker 2>cold when they got off in March. The fatty face

0:30:13.120 --> 0:30:15.120
<v Speaker 2>two times in a ten and then I was sound

0:30:15.200 --> 0:30:19.040
<v Speaker 2>said was treason you know, I was another get again,

0:30:19.080 --> 0:30:22.200
<v Speaker 2>another the stocks of the system of culture shot pay

0:30:22.280 --> 0:30:23.920
<v Speaker 2>them a lot of things.

0:30:25.160 --> 0:30:28.480
<v Speaker 1>Master look felt like luxury over themgand compared to what

0:30:28.640 --> 0:30:32.080
<v Speaker 1>you come from. But I also imagine to a degree

0:30:32.120 --> 0:30:34.840
<v Speaker 1>you're in the mindset that you're still backing in Thailand.

0:30:34.960 --> 0:30:38.880
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, have a both back and tie, you know.

0:30:39.040 --> 0:30:44.600
<v Speaker 2>And I was very shrub mission. Yes, you know, because

0:30:44.640 --> 0:30:47.440
<v Speaker 2>you've been beaaten into me or drunned into me in Thailand,

0:30:47.600 --> 0:30:49.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, because you're very you know, you had to

0:30:49.520 --> 0:30:52.640
<v Speaker 2>really like you couldn't be above the patent offices. You

0:30:52.760 --> 0:30:56.360
<v Speaker 2>have to lower yourselves, you know, you have to yeah,

0:30:56.480 --> 0:30:59.000
<v Speaker 2>bounce down and you know everything was shipping on your

0:30:59.040 --> 0:31:00.600
<v Speaker 2>knees and you slept on a wall. So when I

0:31:00.800 --> 0:31:03.880
<v Speaker 2>went into the shelf in the UK and there was

0:31:04.360 --> 0:31:07.440
<v Speaker 2>a massage on a bed, I couldn't cope place to

0:31:07.440 --> 0:31:10.080
<v Speaker 2>sleep on the floor, and I put the matter on

0:31:10.160 --> 0:31:12.920
<v Speaker 2>the floor. I was sleeping on the floor. I was

0:31:13.000 --> 0:31:16.240
<v Speaker 2>it was seizing cold so old ones of the pipes.

0:31:16.480 --> 0:31:18.840
<v Speaker 2>It was, you know, it was cooling off the shell.

0:31:18.920 --> 0:31:22.280
<v Speaker 2>And I was speaking time half English and calling everyone's

0:31:22.280 --> 0:31:24.720
<v Speaker 2>Shane and it was just Bob. And then he got

0:31:24.840 --> 0:31:28.320
<v Speaker 2>like the couseuling it. Who speaks to me? You know,

0:31:28.440 --> 0:31:30.600
<v Speaker 2>he wasn't weird. I carded to be fair, you know,

0:31:30.720 --> 0:31:35.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean he was asking me chilly questions and that's all.

0:31:35.080 --> 0:31:38.600
<v Speaker 2>I was just kind of to a tap. That's that

0:31:38.800 --> 0:31:42.080
<v Speaker 2>kind of culture and that environment was it was a

0:31:42.160 --> 0:31:43.000
<v Speaker 2>difficult process.

0:31:44.080 --> 0:31:44.200
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:31:44.280 --> 0:31:46.600
<v Speaker 2>I was listening to the people complaining of the chips

0:31:46.680 --> 0:31:50.440
<v Speaker 2>and that's shipping amaze. As you just see what I've

0:31:50.440 --> 0:31:55.000
<v Speaker 2>been eating, right, I've had painting heads stop still with

0:31:55.080 --> 0:31:58.640
<v Speaker 2>the weak on it and an eyeball and stinking you

0:31:58.680 --> 0:32:00.560
<v Speaker 2>know what. That that's the kind of thing with that meeting,

0:32:00.880 --> 0:32:03.880
<v Speaker 2>and you're complaining about the chips here and the chiffing.

0:32:04.520 --> 0:32:09.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't like the fish might now made Yeah, apend

0:32:09.840 --> 0:32:13.880
<v Speaker 2>stating months so I don't see usually montioned total.

0:32:15.720 --> 0:32:19.320
<v Speaker 1>Was there you once you were released? You where did

0:32:19.400 --> 0:32:21.040
<v Speaker 1>you write the book? Did you write the book when

0:32:21.080 --> 0:32:22.920
<v Speaker 1>you were in prison or when you released from prison?

0:32:23.000 --> 0:32:25.440
<v Speaker 2>Yea fast was writing the book when I was in Thailand.

0:32:25.520 --> 0:32:29.600
<v Speaker 2>So astu factual information because afford the tear, you know,

0:32:30.240 --> 0:32:32.520
<v Speaker 2>and writes it down. I'll document it so you have

0:32:32.640 --> 0:32:36.040
<v Speaker 2>little notes. And then kind of it came to suation

0:32:36.160 --> 0:32:39.080
<v Speaker 2>when I got to world. Later, I knew what I

0:32:39.200 --> 0:32:42.160
<v Speaker 2>was writing. You know, it was memory, it was it

0:32:42.280 --> 0:32:45.680
<v Speaker 2>was there, It was physically in mad environments and I've

0:32:45.680 --> 0:32:48.920
<v Speaker 2>witnessed the show, so I write it down and it

0:32:49.080 --> 0:32:52.800
<v Speaker 2>was fact. So it became a you know, chronologic female.

0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:55.440
<v Speaker 2>I said, introduce your shelf and talk about me your

0:32:55.480 --> 0:32:58.080
<v Speaker 2>back short and you know where that led the count

0:32:58.120 --> 0:33:00.240
<v Speaker 2>to beauty factors and me behavior and you know what

0:33:00.480 --> 0:33:03.720
<v Speaker 2>changed our final initiating situation is it?

0:33:04.120 --> 0:33:06.880
<v Speaker 1>You know you find that find that cathartic like going

0:33:06.960 --> 0:33:08.320
<v Speaker 1>through that telling the story.

0:33:08.560 --> 0:33:11.760
<v Speaker 2>That's pretty much have ward. It was any healing because

0:33:11.800 --> 0:33:13.600
<v Speaker 2>there was speaking that people are both as well. So

0:33:13.640 --> 0:33:15.880
<v Speaker 2>it was a vision of telling them my story. They

0:33:16.000 --> 0:33:18.960
<v Speaker 2>look on me alas with shock or he couldn't intensively,

0:33:19.320 --> 0:33:22.160
<v Speaker 2>he couldn't release what you've seen this, you've seen she

0:33:22.240 --> 0:33:24.240
<v Speaker 2>wanted to have them shot on the chest and you

0:33:24.320 --> 0:33:26.680
<v Speaker 2>were just it was normal, y. Yeah, you know you've

0:33:26.680 --> 0:33:29.000
<v Speaker 2>seen someone, you know, taking them shoves off this and

0:33:29.040 --> 0:33:31.200
<v Speaker 2>you've seen people and they were looking at me a

0:33:31.240 --> 0:33:34.240
<v Speaker 2>bit strange and I thought, hell, I can't even name

0:33:35.360 --> 0:33:38.520
<v Speaker 2>self on the shorty without them bow. Yeah, that experience.

0:33:39.400 --> 0:33:41.520
<v Speaker 2>I wrote it down. It was very it was very

0:33:41.600 --> 0:33:44.440
<v Speaker 2>healing the process where he said.

0:33:45.800 --> 0:33:49.480
<v Speaker 1>With the book, you've you've got it published. Then when

0:33:49.520 --> 0:33:53.040
<v Speaker 1>did the film start to take off? When did people

0:33:53.080 --> 0:33:55.680
<v Speaker 1>get interested in turning into a movie.

0:33:56.760 --> 0:33:59.560
<v Speaker 2>So that was probably a boss I was feeling into

0:33:59.560 --> 0:34:02.880
<v Speaker 2>the book was publish. You know. I went about silently

0:34:03.840 --> 0:34:06.000
<v Speaker 2>shows to get a documentary or show him because it

0:34:06.040 --> 0:34:07.760
<v Speaker 2>was it was You got to remember it was. It

0:34:07.880 --> 0:34:10.000
<v Speaker 2>was before the podcasts and take off, you know what

0:34:10.040 --> 0:34:14.439
<v Speaker 2>I mean. It was in two thousand and eleven, twenty eleven,

0:34:14.440 --> 0:34:17.440
<v Speaker 2>should Out the twelve of the book was published. Shootout

0:34:17.560 --> 0:34:20.719
<v Speaker 2>the twelve in this Lee and not was really online

0:34:21.040 --> 0:34:23.680
<v Speaker 2>as much as it is today. Yeah. Sure, I was

0:34:23.719 --> 0:34:26.560
<v Speaker 2>shunting the busy. I remember walking down of the street

0:34:26.560 --> 0:34:29.040
<v Speaker 2>called Huxley has seen a little shine seeing hurricane film

0:34:29.080 --> 0:34:31.719
<v Speaker 2>ship the bid I walked in and refused to see

0:34:31.840 --> 0:34:34.839
<v Speaker 2>me as an officiate manager. Yea, the share don't come

0:34:34.920 --> 0:34:38.960
<v Speaker 2>back and kept coming back. They kept mess In the

0:34:39.080 --> 0:34:40.880
<v Speaker 2>end they thay, can you leave your manuscript on your

0:34:40.880 --> 0:34:44.640
<v Speaker 2>book and it's okay. I left it with its twelve

0:34:44.680 --> 0:34:46.560
<v Speaker 2>months later that he got in such in me like

0:34:46.680 --> 0:34:48.719
<v Speaker 2>we were delighted, we want to make this into a movie,

0:34:48.920 --> 0:34:50.680
<v Speaker 2>Like they invite you in to have a chat about it,

0:34:51.520 --> 0:34:54.120
<v Speaker 2>and that's when they I went in and I was thinking,

0:34:54.280 --> 0:34:58.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, she's been a little a little homemade basically

0:34:59.160 --> 0:35:02.880
<v Speaker 2>movie or something more or budget low budget. You know,

0:35:03.120 --> 0:35:06.480
<v Speaker 2>wasn't it the best in the game. You know, a

0:35:06.600 --> 0:35:09.759
<v Speaker 2>great director to be involved, the script writer, you know,

0:35:09.920 --> 0:35:12.360
<v Speaker 2>and I'm up and coming actor from from from the

0:35:12.520 --> 0:35:15.160
<v Speaker 2>UK to be you know, playing the role of Michelle.

0:35:16.160 --> 0:35:18.480
<v Speaker 1>It was very exciting giving to know you in this

0:35:18.640 --> 0:35:21.600
<v Speaker 1>check now he now nowed you to that actor in

0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:24.200
<v Speaker 1>the movie The Painkillers.

0:35:25.080 --> 0:35:29.560
<v Speaker 2>I have, Jimmy, you don't have in infamily and told

0:35:29.600 --> 0:35:34.040
<v Speaker 2>you do tramadol for three, that's free for you. But Jimmy,

0:35:34.040 --> 0:35:35.480
<v Speaker 2>it's not three. I've just seen you give it to

0:35:35.560 --> 0:35:36.560
<v Speaker 2>five people in a row.

0:35:36.640 --> 0:35:37.080
<v Speaker 1>Need to pay.

0:35:38.880 --> 0:35:41.960
<v Speaker 2>No, No, I've got no money. I've got no money.

0:35:41.960 --> 0:35:42.879
<v Speaker 2>I've been told it's free.

0:35:43.280 --> 0:35:44.759
<v Speaker 1>You have to song for me.

0:35:46.080 --> 0:35:50.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't have have no cigarettes. I've got no I've

0:35:50.960 --> 0:35:54.279
<v Speaker 2>got nothing. But this is all not right.

0:35:54.719 --> 0:35:54.960
<v Speaker 1>Give me.

0:35:55.040 --> 0:35:59.359
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of time with that act as you'll

0:35:59.440 --> 0:36:02.680
<v Speaker 2>call it. Became really friendly with and still preens with

0:36:02.719 --> 0:36:06.120
<v Speaker 2>him today. He was still in contact. Yeah, he understands the.

0:36:08.200 --> 0:36:11.960
<v Speaker 1>Very complex Yeah, that's that's what came across Billy, That's

0:36:12.000 --> 0:36:14.440
<v Speaker 1>what came across in the film and chatting with you

0:36:14.560 --> 0:36:18.440
<v Speaker 1>now like it's there was the zanga, there's the sadness,

0:36:18.840 --> 0:36:21.279
<v Speaker 1>there's all the emotions here. He saw the capture that

0:36:21.920 --> 0:36:24.520
<v Speaker 1>you could relate to him the way that he portrayed

0:36:24.560 --> 0:36:25.760
<v Speaker 1>you in the in the movie.

0:36:25.960 --> 0:36:28.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was very I was very impressed with that.

0:36:28.600 --> 0:36:32.640
<v Speaker 2>We proceeded Michelson. I believe the time that he spent

0:36:32.719 --> 0:36:35.279
<v Speaker 2>with me in the the method after he did was

0:36:35.640 --> 0:36:37.960
<v Speaker 2>was it was spots on Yeah.

0:36:37.920 --> 0:36:41.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, he nailed it. So that was it was

0:36:41.600 --> 0:36:45.000
<v Speaker 1>feature at Cannes Film Festival. So yeah, we're talking that

0:36:45.200 --> 0:36:47.200
<v Speaker 1>was It was a big deal. It wasn't the local

0:36:47.600 --> 0:36:49.120
<v Speaker 1>TV station making the movie.

0:36:50.760 --> 0:36:53.080
<v Speaker 2>I was a center. They put on the biggest Gentlemans

0:36:53.120 --> 0:36:56.160
<v Speaker 2>in Europe. There was a cars film Festival of the

0:36:56.200 --> 0:36:58.759
<v Speaker 2>thing was that sticks to your anual events. Filch each

0:36:58.840 --> 0:37:01.880
<v Speaker 2>wudd and was filing first of all the time and

0:37:02.480 --> 0:37:05.600
<v Speaker 2>there was just incredible red carpet. I will say some

0:37:05.760 --> 0:37:08.920
<v Speaker 2>of the actors from the movie with the ho call

0:37:09.000 --> 0:37:13.320
<v Speaker 2>me shelf the director and it was just powerful, you know,

0:37:13.560 --> 0:37:16.520
<v Speaker 2>like at the end I was watching it and I'll

0:37:16.560 --> 0:37:19.279
<v Speaker 2>be there, and I was like changing watching it and

0:37:19.320 --> 0:37:21.120
<v Speaker 2>on people are going to judge station.

0:37:22.880 --> 0:37:23.040
<v Speaker 1>Was like.

0:37:25.440 --> 0:37:27.359
<v Speaker 2>Like, this is what I told him. You know it's

0:37:27.400 --> 0:37:31.200
<v Speaker 2>gonna like you. And that was there was own waste CITs.

0:37:31.760 --> 0:37:34.920
<v Speaker 2>But at the end of the movie there was a

0:37:35.040 --> 0:37:37.239
<v Speaker 2>rapture of applause that just went over for eight minutes.

0:37:37.280 --> 0:37:40.040
<v Speaker 2>It was a fan of ovation and cheese. And I

0:37:40.200 --> 0:37:42.600
<v Speaker 2>was like, what's going on here? And I was both

0:37:42.640 --> 0:37:45.880
<v Speaker 2>at the the American Financid who was standing next with

0:37:46.080 --> 0:37:51.520
<v Speaker 2>James Seamish, and I said that sepping here, I said,

0:37:51.600 --> 0:37:54.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, and he liked it anyway. He said, hey, Billy,

0:37:54.360 --> 0:37:57.719
<v Speaker 2>he said, we said we're in France. He's dead. And

0:37:57.800 --> 0:37:59.480
<v Speaker 2>now I'll tell you this, he said, the wrench of

0:37:59.520 --> 0:38:04.120
<v Speaker 2>the ways and examiners. Even if you hear they love

0:38:04.200 --> 0:38:06.520
<v Speaker 2>this movie, he said, you know, if they were if

0:38:06.600 --> 0:38:09.360
<v Speaker 2>you did LA, they didn't still care whether you do

0:38:09.680 --> 0:38:11.879
<v Speaker 2>or not. He said that you know you've done really well.

0:38:11.920 --> 0:38:14.440
<v Speaker 2>And you know the next day in the reports and

0:38:14.520 --> 0:38:18.439
<v Speaker 2>then in all the moviesine articles online, it was LA shame.

0:38:18.640 --> 0:38:22.319
<v Speaker 2>It was a great suck death. It was yesicized, as

0:38:23.120 --> 0:38:26.360
<v Speaker 2>was having siticized as a as a good cult movie.

0:38:28.040 --> 0:38:30.160
<v Speaker 2>So I was I would glad that. I was grateful

0:38:30.239 --> 0:38:32.000
<v Speaker 2>that it was quite hockey.

0:38:32.760 --> 0:38:37.200
<v Speaker 1>Look, and so much was happening in your life after that,

0:38:37.760 --> 0:38:40.000
<v Speaker 1>like what you had had been through to get to

0:38:40.080 --> 0:38:43.439
<v Speaker 1>that point, and yeah, the nature of your story, people

0:38:43.480 --> 0:38:45.560
<v Speaker 1>would have been wanting to meet you. You would have

0:38:45.600 --> 0:38:49.200
<v Speaker 1>been the man in the moment in that environment, and

0:38:50.400 --> 0:38:52.920
<v Speaker 1>that can be daunting and overwhelming. And I'm sure with

0:38:53.040 --> 0:38:55.759
<v Speaker 1>all the all the stuff that you carry carry from

0:38:55.800 --> 0:38:57.759
<v Speaker 1>your past, it must have been confronting for you in

0:38:57.800 --> 0:38:58.399
<v Speaker 1>a way as well.

0:38:59.200 --> 0:39:01.839
<v Speaker 2>It was because I would carrying out impostership. I didn't

0:39:02.040 --> 0:39:04.360
<v Speaker 2>believe it belongs in the kind of environments, you know.

0:39:04.400 --> 0:39:06.480
<v Speaker 2>I was thinking, Look, I'm just a basy, mixed up kid,

0:39:07.000 --> 0:39:10.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm a few bits. I've just had the sex variance,

0:39:10.480 --> 0:39:13.920
<v Speaker 2>and you know, they've written a bad around all these

0:39:13.960 --> 0:39:17.360
<v Speaker 2>big issers. They're all struck cheeseos. I don't really, you know,

0:39:17.520 --> 0:39:19.600
<v Speaker 2>feel like I fit in with these type of people,

0:39:20.280 --> 0:39:21.719
<v Speaker 2>you know. And I just rolled with it. And then

0:39:22.160 --> 0:39:25.360
<v Speaker 2>it was just very difficult to chet late all the affirmation.

0:39:25.520 --> 0:39:29.399
<v Speaker 2>At the time, no one as well that like, look

0:39:29.840 --> 0:39:32.399
<v Speaker 2>was this day's over, It'll be another day for someone else.

0:39:32.880 --> 0:39:35.440
<v Speaker 2>I knew that's just kind of just rolled with it,

0:39:36.120 --> 0:39:38.719
<v Speaker 2>and it was, Yeah, it was. It was very an

0:39:38.800 --> 0:39:43.200
<v Speaker 2>exciting moment. I was proud of the achievements, you know,

0:39:43.440 --> 0:39:45.160
<v Speaker 2>and I didn't want to live in all that shame

0:39:45.239 --> 0:39:45.800
<v Speaker 2>of me past.

0:39:46.719 --> 0:39:49.360
<v Speaker 1>Hey, guys, have you ever wondered what goes on behind

0:39:49.400 --> 0:39:51.759
<v Speaker 1>the headlines of a gang more or shooting, then you

0:39:51.880 --> 0:39:55.040
<v Speaker 1>need to listen to crim City joined crime reporters Mark

0:39:55.160 --> 0:39:58.120
<v Speaker 1>Murray and Josh Hemrahane as I uncovered the details of

0:39:58.200 --> 0:40:01.240
<v Speaker 1>crimes I'm folding on Sydney Straight and share the stories

0:40:01.280 --> 0:40:03.839
<v Speaker 1>that don't make the papers. The latest season of crim

0:40:03.960 --> 0:40:06.759
<v Speaker 1>City is out now. Listen early and ad free on

0:40:06.880 --> 0:40:11.359
<v Speaker 1>Crime x plus on Apple Podcast Today. I think when

0:40:11.400 --> 0:40:14.279
<v Speaker 1>you tell the story and you're honest, that yeah, if

0:40:14.320 --> 0:40:16.480
<v Speaker 1>you hold shame, but if you're saying, well, this is

0:40:16.560 --> 0:40:18.520
<v Speaker 1>who I am. You've put it in a book, it's

0:40:18.560 --> 0:40:21.359
<v Speaker 1>played out in the film. You've got nothing to hide there,

0:40:21.520 --> 0:40:24.640
<v Speaker 1>this is who I am. Take So I think there

0:40:24.719 --> 0:40:26.719
<v Speaker 1>must have been that sort of thought going through your mind.

0:40:26.880 --> 0:40:30.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was like he Honestly, the your honesty is

0:40:30.560 --> 0:40:33.759
<v Speaker 2>more sack than saying that. They pretend that you've got

0:40:33.800 --> 0:40:35.600
<v Speaker 2>a big ego and you're not dead, and you know,

0:40:36.680 --> 0:40:39.640
<v Speaker 2>you know usually usually look, you know, I was a

0:40:39.719 --> 0:40:42.160
<v Speaker 2>diagonal sold them.

0:40:42.719 --> 0:40:42.960
<v Speaker 1>I was.

0:40:43.360 --> 0:40:46.440
<v Speaker 2>I was a proper mesh. I had an EmPATH on

0:40:46.640 --> 0:40:54.200
<v Speaker 2>everyone's life. Negatively, you know, I wasn't really a valuable

0:40:54.400 --> 0:40:57.680
<v Speaker 2>member of the community. You know, I'm sure what was

0:40:57.719 --> 0:41:00.480
<v Speaker 2>your face everywhere mentioned all the beautiful last if you

0:41:00.520 --> 0:41:03.719
<v Speaker 2>know what I mean. But now come like full share,

0:41:04.760 --> 0:41:07.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, I like you shad at the beginning and

0:41:07.239 --> 0:41:09.320
<v Speaker 2>this is what's imposed. And I spoke about this today,

0:41:09.320 --> 0:41:13.359
<v Speaker 2>which is quite states. You know what Becausin who said,

0:41:13.400 --> 0:41:14.719
<v Speaker 2>he said to me, he said, you know what, Bill,

0:41:14.800 --> 0:41:17.040
<v Speaker 2>He's just you know, why did you think you're Yeah,

0:41:17.080 --> 0:41:20.440
<v Speaker 2>I said, really Knowsted, you've been through that many nature

0:41:20.560 --> 0:41:24.680
<v Speaker 2>for staining, So so she's ya, you know, collisions, your stabbings,

0:41:24.680 --> 0:41:27.160
<v Speaker 2>you've been stabbed, you're being shot at. You know, you've

0:41:27.160 --> 0:41:29.759
<v Speaker 2>had you you know, you've been molds, You've been through

0:41:29.800 --> 0:41:32.960
<v Speaker 2>a lot. Right, So why said someone's got to be

0:41:33.000 --> 0:41:36.200
<v Speaker 2>looking after someone's got to be watching over you, because

0:41:36.200 --> 0:41:39.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm kind of like get about all that stuff. But

0:41:39.840 --> 0:41:41.880
<v Speaker 2>I believe there's some kind of incidental I believe in

0:41:41.920 --> 0:41:43.719
<v Speaker 2>me for a reason. I don't know whether what that

0:41:44.000 --> 0:41:46.000
<v Speaker 2>is this, but now you know, I know what to

0:41:46.120 --> 0:41:50.640
<v Speaker 2>do today is Yeah, it's be that role model for people.

0:41:51.360 --> 0:41:54.160
<v Speaker 2>Be that Paton who can nature others, you know people,

0:41:54.880 --> 0:41:56.920
<v Speaker 2>be that patient you going off for guidance and say

0:41:56.960 --> 0:41:59.640
<v Speaker 2>look there's a way out there, you know, being in

0:42:00.440 --> 0:42:04.239
<v Speaker 2>for almost seven years. No, I maintain accidents that don't

0:42:04.280 --> 0:42:08.879
<v Speaker 2>drink it'll slogan ull usual booze there, no me late.

0:42:09.080 --> 0:42:12.200
<v Speaker 2>Today is a far acay from what it was. I'm

0:42:12.239 --> 0:42:14.320
<v Speaker 2>sold if I never have kids who got cheap, bunching,

0:42:14.360 --> 0:42:17.279
<v Speaker 2>little baby blous. Now you've got a lovely family. This

0:42:17.440 --> 0:42:20.200
<v Speaker 2>is you know, I've never believed in a million years

0:42:20.239 --> 0:42:25.600
<v Speaker 2>above you know. So it's just it's just just it's

0:42:25.680 --> 0:42:28.399
<v Speaker 2>like it's like play yet it thinks someone else's live.

0:42:29.280 --> 0:42:34.040
<v Speaker 2>I'd never believe that was my life. That kid in

0:42:34.120 --> 0:42:36.839
<v Speaker 2>that film kept making show any mistakes, so he had

0:42:36.880 --> 0:42:39.920
<v Speaker 2>that many chances of were thinking I was looking for Michelle.

0:42:40.680 --> 0:42:43.600
<v Speaker 1>It's funny you should say that like your story. Yeah,

0:42:43.719 --> 0:42:46.279
<v Speaker 1>you've had your setbacks. You step forward, you look like

0:42:46.360 --> 0:42:48.680
<v Speaker 1>you've made it, you fall back down. I sit there

0:42:48.719 --> 0:42:50.680
<v Speaker 1>and watch it. When I was reading your books or

0:42:50.680 --> 0:42:52.680
<v Speaker 1>watching the movie, I'm thinking, no, don't get in in

0:42:52.800 --> 0:42:55.200
<v Speaker 1>this path, don't do that, like and you're it's funny

0:42:55.239 --> 0:42:57.479
<v Speaker 1>you're sitting there thinking the same thing. Come on, Billy,

0:42:57.560 --> 0:42:58.279
<v Speaker 1>you can do this.

0:42:58.680 --> 0:43:02.080
<v Speaker 2>But Billy, whenever it's I was thinking, what's going on?

0:43:02.239 --> 0:43:06.160
<v Speaker 2>You've got that Maody's chances. Yeah, it was like I

0:43:06.280 --> 0:43:07.960
<v Speaker 2>was left the spoons and all of them shelves and

0:43:08.000 --> 0:43:12.400
<v Speaker 2>look at all loves Bobby. But it was yeah, you know,

0:43:12.520 --> 0:43:15.160
<v Speaker 2>you'd have to fall a few times before your stones.

0:43:14.840 --> 0:43:18.440
<v Speaker 1>Up on most definitely, and you've got to. But you know,

0:43:18.719 --> 0:43:21.719
<v Speaker 1>we talk redemption, and I really like pushing that in

0:43:21.960 --> 0:43:25.399
<v Speaker 1>on this this show redemption because you get people. I've

0:43:25.480 --> 0:43:28.120
<v Speaker 1>seen people, we've all been there. You're at this low point,

0:43:28.200 --> 0:43:30.080
<v Speaker 1>you think I'm never going to turn this around, and

0:43:30.120 --> 0:43:33.319
<v Speaker 1>then we see a story like like yours, and you know, look,

0:43:33.400 --> 0:43:36.920
<v Speaker 1>you got you've got two kids, you're enjoying life. You've

0:43:37.000 --> 0:43:39.920
<v Speaker 1>lived a life, but you're still here. So I think

0:43:40.000 --> 0:43:43.479
<v Speaker 1>there's some motivation and inspiration for people here in your story.

0:43:43.520 --> 0:43:46.200
<v Speaker 1>And I think that's why it certainly resonated with me.

0:43:46.320 --> 0:43:48.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking, ship, who is this blake? How how has

0:43:48.960 --> 0:43:49.520
<v Speaker 1>he survived?

0:43:49.640 --> 0:43:49.680
<v Speaker 2>Like?

0:43:49.840 --> 0:43:52.080
<v Speaker 1>How did where's that human spirit come from?

0:43:52.560 --> 0:43:54.880
<v Speaker 2>And because I was what My thing was I was

0:43:54.960 --> 0:43:55.560
<v Speaker 2>daying all.

0:43:57.239 --> 0:43:59.960
<v Speaker 1>I forgot your cancer story. Yeah, that's another number one.

0:44:00.560 --> 0:44:02.240
<v Speaker 1>When did you get diagnosed with cancer?

0:44:02.800 --> 0:44:03.640
<v Speaker 2>Two times of the ship?

0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:07.160
<v Speaker 1>Right? Okay, so you're going through the whole prison experience

0:44:07.200 --> 0:44:09.480
<v Speaker 1>and then you got hit with that. Yeah.

0:44:09.640 --> 0:44:12.480
<v Speaker 2>So that being through that experience and come out at

0:44:12.520 --> 0:44:16.520
<v Speaker 2>this glorious book that addressed that became a movie that

0:44:16.600 --> 0:44:19.279
<v Speaker 2>I'm on the shed and I guess I gets it

0:44:19.400 --> 0:44:24.239
<v Speaker 2>with cancer and filling to that was that was like

0:44:24.400 --> 0:44:26.680
<v Speaker 2>and Rod the handling me life me. I was diavolged

0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:29.600
<v Speaker 2>with cancer after passed away from cancer, and I had

0:44:29.640 --> 0:44:32.160
<v Speaker 2>to you know, he made amends met the last seven

0:44:32.200 --> 0:44:32.879
<v Speaker 2>years of his life.

0:44:32.880 --> 0:44:33.520
<v Speaker 1>You know that's good.

0:44:33.880 --> 0:44:35.560
<v Speaker 2>He never really shed much. But you know, at the

0:44:35.640 --> 0:44:37.120
<v Speaker 2>end of his life, you know, he said he loved me,

0:44:37.160 --> 0:44:39.800
<v Speaker 2>and that was I believe. And then I had this

0:44:40.080 --> 0:44:42.719
<v Speaker 2>out of the chept and surround you know, maybe you

0:44:42.800 --> 0:44:45.080
<v Speaker 2>know he had his whole little battles with his life,

0:44:45.120 --> 0:44:47.080
<v Speaker 2>and you know, we never really shared much of bout it,

0:44:47.200 --> 0:44:49.279
<v Speaker 2>so I can't I add that to giveness, which you

0:44:49.320 --> 0:44:51.279
<v Speaker 2>can't of give me a better piece. But then I

0:44:51.360 --> 0:44:53.719
<v Speaker 2>got diagnosed with it, and you know, I ended up

0:44:53.719 --> 0:44:57.359
<v Speaker 2>with Stacey. Cancer brought me ways, you know, lot hay.

0:44:58.120 --> 0:45:00.879
<v Speaker 2>Everything a photag is the end and you know kind

0:45:00.920 --> 0:45:03.480
<v Speaker 2>of manage to get through it, you know. So that

0:45:03.600 --> 0:45:05.920
<v Speaker 2>was a load of handling, you know what. And then

0:45:05.960 --> 0:45:08.040
<v Speaker 2>they share the good back kids and then that's w

0:45:08.280 --> 0:45:10.200
<v Speaker 2>share them with these tree little boys now and they

0:45:10.840 --> 0:45:13.240
<v Speaker 2>be careful what you wish for greatly.

0:45:13.960 --> 0:45:14.880
<v Speaker 1>How how old about it?

0:45:15.080 --> 0:45:17.120
<v Speaker 2>Well one was for ones alet.

0:45:17.960 --> 0:45:21.239
<v Speaker 1>Oh jeez, Billy, and here I am keeping you up

0:45:21.320 --> 0:45:24.000
<v Speaker 1>to no wonder you're worried, keeping you up to midnight

0:45:24.120 --> 0:45:27.480
<v Speaker 1>to do the podcast. I'm sorry. I apologize.

0:45:27.920 --> 0:45:29.560
<v Speaker 2>I've got a couple of step kids as well. They

0:45:29.600 --> 0:45:33.680
<v Speaker 2>were quite a bit old. You know, things things are okay,

0:45:33.840 --> 0:45:37.440
<v Speaker 2>and you know, away along Tiddy. You know, an organization

0:45:37.680 --> 0:45:40.920
<v Speaker 2>was just called Weapons Down, which we deal with interventions

0:45:40.960 --> 0:45:44.880
<v Speaker 2>with young kids, and you know, you know gang culture,

0:45:44.960 --> 0:45:49.840
<v Speaker 2>man county lines, you know, vision and consequences, mental health, addiction.

0:45:50.239 --> 0:45:54.040
<v Speaker 2>I kind of covered all aspects of I've got the experience.

0:45:54.680 --> 0:45:57.480
<v Speaker 1>Well you got the life experience, and and people like you,

0:45:58.200 --> 0:46:00.600
<v Speaker 1>people that kids if they're heating in the wrong direction,

0:46:00.840 --> 0:46:02.839
<v Speaker 1>listen to But what was the name of the organization?

0:46:03.000 --> 0:46:04.160
<v Speaker 1>Weapons Day and fists Up?

0:46:04.280 --> 0:46:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Weapons down.

0:46:05.840 --> 0:46:06.239
<v Speaker 1>I like it.

0:46:06.400 --> 0:46:06.800
<v Speaker 2>I like it.

0:46:06.920 --> 0:46:09.720
<v Speaker 1>That's because yeah, we've got a bit of a problem

0:46:09.840 --> 0:46:12.920
<v Speaker 1>over here in Australia. And I know it's you've probably

0:46:12.960 --> 0:46:15.680
<v Speaker 1>got the same thing in the UK, but with weapons

0:46:15.760 --> 0:46:19.200
<v Speaker 1>and knives and and and all that that it's something

0:46:19.280 --> 0:46:22.000
<v Speaker 1>that really try to see people away.

0:46:22.280 --> 0:46:23.880
<v Speaker 2>And I'm under no illusion that we're not going to

0:46:23.920 --> 0:46:25.839
<v Speaker 2>reach everyone, it's all. And I mean we can only

0:46:26.520 --> 0:46:28.200
<v Speaker 2>I mean if he reach a few people, then that's

0:46:28.239 --> 0:46:30.080
<v Speaker 2>there's a ribble of effect. And I know the ribble

0:46:30.080 --> 0:46:33.520
<v Speaker 2>effect because of my ripple effect. I had the shape

0:46:33.600 --> 0:46:36.279
<v Speaker 2>of people around me, don't really struggling and shuffled them.

0:46:36.920 --> 0:46:37.080
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:46:37.280 --> 0:46:39.719
<v Speaker 2>Now they're phoning me up and asking me for help

0:46:39.800 --> 0:46:42.600
<v Speaker 2>me mum, you know, she she she brings me up

0:46:42.600 --> 0:46:45.560
<v Speaker 2>for guidance to report. And you know that was never

0:46:45.640 --> 0:46:47.680
<v Speaker 2>on the cards. It was always just all getting shotting

0:46:47.719 --> 0:46:51.840
<v Speaker 2>with feet, keep aways. You know, you're the shoulders and

0:46:51.880 --> 0:46:55.520
<v Speaker 2>the banish. And now it's it's not like that. What

0:46:55.640 --> 0:46:58.880
<v Speaker 2>sholl ever, you know, it's quite different difference. Have got

0:46:58.880 --> 0:47:01.040
<v Speaker 2>a blood to do these as show that was a

0:47:01.200 --> 0:47:03.920
<v Speaker 2>bit of a struggle growing roughly looking after him as well,

0:47:04.560 --> 0:47:06.879
<v Speaker 2>that he's missed him. But now he's like my little rock.

0:47:07.000 --> 0:47:09.480
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I've spent a lot of time with

0:47:09.640 --> 0:47:14.000
<v Speaker 2>him because he had a lot of guilt over It's

0:47:14.120 --> 0:47:17.680
<v Speaker 2>like dismissing him as a young kid. Yeah, you know,

0:47:18.000 --> 0:47:21.320
<v Speaker 2>he wasn't physically and he can't. He was medley, but

0:47:21.440 --> 0:47:24.960
<v Speaker 2>he couldn't really rebilage or understand or he wasn't aware.

0:47:25.080 --> 0:47:27.680
<v Speaker 2>And he's forty five now and he you know, he's

0:47:27.680 --> 0:47:30.760
<v Speaker 2>got you know, he's got his he's got his accomplishes,

0:47:30.840 --> 0:47:33.759
<v Speaker 2>but he's just a lovable guy that you know, was

0:47:34.000 --> 0:47:36.160
<v Speaker 2>very popular now in Liverpool because I put him on

0:47:36.239 --> 0:47:40.799
<v Speaker 2>the platform. I don't shy away from the autism side

0:47:40.800 --> 0:47:44.520
<v Speaker 2>of things, and I didn't realize how his spying it

0:47:44.920 --> 0:47:47.240
<v Speaker 2>was for others to go, Okay, I've got a family member.

0:47:47.800 --> 0:47:49.719
<v Speaker 2>You know. I was always worrying that, you know, that

0:47:50.239 --> 0:47:52.040
<v Speaker 2>he wouldn't be able to trow and he wouldn't be

0:47:52.040 --> 0:47:54.400
<v Speaker 2>able to be a productive member of society. Now by

0:47:54.480 --> 0:47:59.600
<v Speaker 2>the way, you know in these you know he waited testing.

0:48:00.800 --> 0:48:03.120
<v Speaker 2>That's so it shouldn't embarrass.

0:48:03.880 --> 0:48:06.239
<v Speaker 1>Stuff like that. And you can make a difference and

0:48:06.320 --> 0:48:08.880
<v Speaker 1>I know, yeah, you talked about the posta syndrome and

0:48:09.080 --> 0:48:11.399
<v Speaker 1>you know, hanging on to the guilt that you weren't

0:48:11.440 --> 0:48:14.560
<v Speaker 1>good for society. But mate, I got to say, sitting

0:48:14.600 --> 0:48:16.759
<v Speaker 1>here and listening to your story and just getting a

0:48:16.840 --> 0:48:19.920
<v Speaker 1>sense of who you are, you're putting you're putting more

0:48:19.960 --> 0:48:22.520
<v Speaker 1>good than the bad that you you created. So you

0:48:22.640 --> 0:48:25.600
<v Speaker 1>balance the ledger I reckon you can, Yeah, give yourself

0:48:25.640 --> 0:48:28.000
<v Speaker 1>a bit of leeway. We all make mistakes, That's how

0:48:28.080 --> 0:48:28.520
<v Speaker 1>we come from.

0:48:28.640 --> 0:48:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I speaks to Michel Coss. You know what

0:48:31.600 --> 0:48:35.600
<v Speaker 2>you acknowledge that the fact that you're not outdare committing crime.

0:48:35.719 --> 0:48:39.360
<v Speaker 2>Still you're not out there, you're not telling your story,

0:48:39.520 --> 0:48:41.759
<v Speaker 2>but they living a living a bad life, you know

0:48:41.800 --> 0:48:43.960
<v Speaker 2>what I mean. But I'm sure that people on these

0:48:44.040 --> 0:48:46.920
<v Speaker 2>platforms that would show the belt made would still out

0:48:46.960 --> 0:48:50.160
<v Speaker 2>David in Segacy. You know, I don't done that, and

0:48:50.480 --> 0:48:52.320
<v Speaker 2>I know for the fact that there's people like that,

0:48:52.840 --> 0:48:54.759
<v Speaker 2>and I don't want to be one of those those

0:48:54.840 --> 0:48:58.000
<v Speaker 2>people who you haven't got the insangy. You know, I

0:48:58.040 --> 0:49:00.440
<v Speaker 2>won't be inside the out size But she is what

0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:04.440
<v Speaker 2>I do because I'm in a public you know, arena,

0:49:04.440 --> 0:49:06.000
<v Speaker 2>and I don't want to be sheen.

0:49:07.480 --> 0:49:11.560
<v Speaker 1>To be doing no and with that comes the responsibility.

0:49:11.600 --> 0:49:13.279
<v Speaker 1>But it looks like you're reading to it.

0:49:15.360 --> 0:49:18.920
<v Speaker 2>Ye, it gives you the responsibility of the comfortability.

0:49:19.480 --> 0:49:21.840
<v Speaker 1>All right, well, look, I think we might wrap it

0:49:21.960 --> 0:49:25.000
<v Speaker 1>up here. Billy, I really really enjoyed, enjoyed the chat,

0:49:25.120 --> 0:49:27.680
<v Speaker 1>and it's something I say to you. I've burnt a

0:49:27.760 --> 0:49:30.799
<v Speaker 1>fan of you because of your story from the moment

0:49:30.880 --> 0:49:33.880
<v Speaker 1>I saw the movie, and I'm really excited I've got

0:49:33.920 --> 0:49:36.040
<v Speaker 1>the opportunity to sit down and have it have a

0:49:36.120 --> 0:49:38.759
<v Speaker 1>chat with you. So all the best for you for

0:49:38.920 --> 0:49:43.040
<v Speaker 1>the future. And yeah, thanks for coming on I Catch Killers.

0:49:43.239 --> 0:49:43.480
<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

0:49:47.280 --> 0:49:49.200
<v Speaker 1>Well. I got to say I love my job hosting

0:49:49.320 --> 0:49:52.800
<v Speaker 1>I Catch Killers podcast because I've been fascinated with Billy's

0:49:52.800 --> 0:49:55.440
<v Speaker 1>story ever since I watched his movie. The fact that

0:49:55.640 --> 0:49:58.400
<v Speaker 1>what he survived and how he turned his life around

0:49:58.600 --> 0:50:01.640
<v Speaker 1>is just amazing, and I think it's a real privilege

0:50:01.640 --> 0:50:02.960
<v Speaker 1>for me to be able to sit down and have

0:50:03.040 --> 0:50:05.719
<v Speaker 1>a chat with him. And I gotta say I like

0:50:05.840 --> 0:50:09.520
<v Speaker 1>the bloke. He's very impressive and testament to the human

0:50:09.600 --> 0:50:11.400
<v Speaker 1>spirit that he came through what he came through, and

0:50:11.920 --> 0:50:13.120
<v Speaker 1>I just think he's a good Felow