Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Speaker 1: Detective see a side of life the average persons never
Speaker 1: exposed her. I spent thirty four years as a cop.
Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.
Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a
Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to part two of my chat with englishmen
Speaker 1: Billy Moore. Billy's had an interesting life, to say the least.
Speaker 1: He spent eighteen years in prison in the UK and
Speaker 1: Thailands and survived some of the most brutal prisons in
Speaker 1: the world. I'd have to say. One we talked to
Speaker 1: Billy about his life, what led up to him living
Speaker 1: in Thailand, and we just got to the point where
Speaker 1: his life was starting the spiral out of control. He'd
Speaker 1: been cleaned for a number of years. A couple of
Speaker 1: things on the emotional front with a relationship sort of
Speaker 1: steered him in the direction where he fell back into
Speaker 1: the addiction to drugs and his life started to unravel. Billy,
Speaker 1: let's let's take it up to when it really did
Speaker 1: it unravel? When you get a knock at the door
Speaker 1: or you get locked up. What happened?
Speaker 2: I was getting really indeed mold with this year destruct
Speaker 2: making loads of mistake shows, buying phones because of paranoid
Speaker 2: that people were listening to me the start as they
Speaker 2: really get paramoid on this store, had I a room
Speaker 2: full of weapons and the enemies. I've lost loads of weights.
Speaker 2: I could probably hang glads off that skinny, you know.
Speaker 2: I made the adda of mostly there would say boxers
Speaker 2: started befriended. That was I was saying a bit in
Speaker 2: the past. And there was this one ago are you?
Speaker 2: It used to give all the time, but he never did,
Speaker 2: you know. And the last the last time we asked you,
Speaker 2: I said, now giving you on and then he phones
Speaker 2: me up. I don't even know what time was it
Speaker 2: answer phone, It must have been ten am whatever, saying
Speaker 2: to me on the phone, biddy, I have your shows,
Speaker 2: your training shows that in my my taxi because you
Speaker 2: had a talk too. I was like, yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 2: was asleep. You know, they bring them to you. It's okay.
Speaker 2: So where I would follow them where I was with
Speaker 2: a partner to was and I'll put the phones on
Speaker 2: the minute to put the phones on. And I was like,
Speaker 2: why is he around me? Why is he? Why is he? Where?
Speaker 2: Does he want to go out of his way to
Speaker 2: bring me something? What's his motors? And I looked around
Speaker 2: the room. He had cannabis stare. He had a room
Speaker 2: full of weapons. Like I said, I had a cold
Speaker 2: forty five or stonegull samurai shorts. It was just ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Who told me Toda to go to the toe.
Speaker 1: And have a little lookus just didn't feel right.
Speaker 2: Look, and I've seen these our members up the stairs,
Speaker 2: you know, and the way dressed in please attire, but
Speaker 2: a new straight away to it on the cover please.
Speaker 2: And I shut the door, and a panicked, and I
Speaker 2: grabbed the pillows and I grabbed the candish, and I
Speaker 2: shoved down with the shoulders and shine and I shouted
Speaker 2: with me back to the door. And looked around the
Speaker 2: shan theo and thoughts, oh my god, there's a there's
Speaker 2: a gun on the table laid there's this weapons. What
Speaker 2: I'm going to do? And they were bagging on the
Speaker 2: door and I was stolen. There was no way out
Speaker 2: to do. I was on the fourth floor. There was
Speaker 2: no windsor to be shing from the back way waved.
Speaker 2: It was up to the veranda where they were standing,
Speaker 2: so just that they were please. So I was like,
Speaker 2: can you prove it? Can you show me any id?
Speaker 2: And the carts laid under the door. I didn't even
Speaker 2: have to look at it, and please anyway, I don't
Speaker 2: know why I was starting, what it was doing with that.
Speaker 2: I grab a few more moments going over the door.
Speaker 2: They were on the floor. The attacked me, put me
Speaker 2: in a position, but he put cuffs on me, you know,
Speaker 2: give me a few slaps and then started rather room
Speaker 2: shadily and picking things up look for the drug with
Speaker 2: the drugs. He didn't find any drugs. They found a
Speaker 2: lot of paraphernalia, but it broke DUTs visible. I to
Speaker 2: the gun, the guy they used them the slogan he
Speaker 2: pulled out to go. He started to pil up these
Speaker 2: mobile phones. I didn't know what was getting down in
Speaker 2: the background as you back master into this court yard
Speaker 2: and put into this police fan I'm taking to the
Speaker 2: local police division, put in this shell that was that
Speaker 2: you know, I was in there for tea.
Speaker 1: When were you When were you taking it to the prison?
Speaker 1: What what's the processes you kept in caustody with the place?
Speaker 1: When when did you end up in the prison.
Speaker 2: So what happened right was when I was in the
Speaker 2: police fan, I was explaining to that see what happens
Speaker 2: to me? I tell you know. And whether it be
Speaker 2: you don't allowed.
Speaker 1: Leave the country, can't bet yeah.
Speaker 2: Months you can going to visa. Don't want a month
Speaker 2: the may man whatever, just to get a samp come
Speaker 2: back and bang bow. You can do that after three months.
Speaker 2: But that's the team ons. You gotta leave the cosey.
Speaker 2: So I have to lead the comy for tuesdays and
Speaker 2: come back. Do you have a team of visa left
Speaker 2: the country on a Friday, was coming back on a Monday.
Speaker 2: By coming back on they have a team month visa.
Speaker 2: I didn't have to go to the boorders every every month,
Speaker 2: but on that the Friday was shape for buying me
Speaker 2: Yaba pills over the Aca was the tea best apport,
Speaker 2: all the Yaba pills. They hope you got a boat
Speaker 2: as well. I was smoke and I thought I was
Speaker 2: kinda bit shup of time. He and I was going
Speaker 2: a bike out of defenses because it was quite used
Speaker 2: to vetting. Little hold. I was driving on the wrong
Speaker 2: side of the road. No, he had this whistling, A
Speaker 2: couple of gales standing on the corner. They were whistling.
Speaker 2: It is actually man, I looked, you know, by the
Speaker 2: time I look back, there was a show Taxi's heading
Speaker 2: my way. I never had the chance to stop. I was,
Speaker 2: I was. There was a collision. I was heading into it. Hey,
Speaker 2: David made the bike. I was on winning. They just
Speaker 2: flew right in the eight under on my chests. The
Speaker 2: shaft hees broke me. The putting me long because at
Speaker 2: the amber bable right through the summar the shadow, I
Speaker 2: mean literally both the summer. You know, I couldn't breathe,
Speaker 2: and I remember the these Moatians started picking me up
Speaker 2: and put short water down me thrown, you know, do
Speaker 2: things to me, and I have what's going on here?
Speaker 2: What the what the fuck are you doing here? And
Speaker 2: they ate the Irish actions, laying malone and every y malone.
Speaker 2: And he put me in this wheelbarrow, that he should
Speaker 2: get him liberty the horsball and put me in a
Speaker 2: wheel barrow. There was bloodpoorting mounts of everywhere. There was
Speaker 2: at this shrafter with a blood dained jacket, play both
Speaker 2: of a pen with these shoe shoulders shaded with banana clicks,
Speaker 2: taking pictures of me. And they're verstrowing me that I
Speaker 2: had a big cook the bay becausing my lunch must
Speaker 2: have they moved. They have bowled from me, from me
Speaker 2: long at the time, and I have to breathe. And
Speaker 2: he said to this this this the shot shall to
Speaker 2: get me out of you, because what was going through
Speaker 2: my bus. You had a thousand gabba pills and you
Speaker 2: put it. And I was thinking, these huge soldiers are year.
Speaker 2: They were just there because he has a big shure.
Speaker 2: It was okay. It was a national. He got me
Speaker 2: to his the partments in a low because he was
Speaker 2: a T shirt over there proposed me until in the
Speaker 2: morning I was in I was in a mess. It
Speaker 2: was ever very bad backstage and stayed at the hospital Laypacrimos.
Speaker 2: I was in a bad back plate in front of
Speaker 2: the prison.
Speaker 1: So you and those those injuries hadn't fully recovered.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, they ended up having two shares of
Speaker 2: co operations in the same prison.
Speaker 1: Jesus, that's that's not what you want. Yeah, okay, so
Speaker 1: you banged up the bike accident before you're locked up. Now, yeah,
Speaker 1: you've they've they've got you with phones and weapons or
Speaker 1: weapon or whatever. What's the time were you're realistically looking
Speaker 1: at doing?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had no idea, really, I had no idea.
Speaker 2: I had like images of like imagining myself. Do you
Speaker 2: like ten to fifteen maybe you know that kind of
Speaker 2: double figures. The protests have gone from the b station's
Speaker 2: court to about Creasy's and went to court. I was
Speaker 2: taking into a cord with another standard waves got taken
Speaker 2: two changed my prison on this boat. But dish diesel
Speaker 2: being meats and they institution into the prison established us.
Speaker 2: You know, Flip Chase was a showered in front of
Speaker 2: these prison officer shoes for the bowl on the whistel.
Speaker 2: The whistles gone. You're putting bowls of water on you,
Speaker 2: you know, you're washing your shels on and it was
Speaker 2: it was late, it was all like what mad by
Speaker 2: this time. Then we had to squat on the floor
Speaker 2: and four others had to share a ball of ration,
Speaker 2: some some meal that we couldn't even describe. And a
Speaker 2: stone gets cold and swarge hovering and above it and
Speaker 2: mistinking that comes from there. And we will lease mass
Speaker 2: into this shell cell block the induction style. That's where
Speaker 2: name you know that I said in part one has
Speaker 2: to sleep nest of this dish games And this lady
Speaker 2: boy called Siffany. You want these big musht breasts and
Speaker 2: this boot shoe which shed nor money nor buddy.
Speaker 1: They're all part of the prison. They're inmates in there,
Speaker 1: lady boys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the de have all parts of the prison which
Speaker 2: places would have been there at the same So, yeah,
Speaker 2: there was a fief experience, to say the least.
Speaker 1: When you when you say freaky, it seems like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a horror experience going in there, and it's something
Speaker 1: completely foreign and the environment that's foreign to But also
Speaker 1: you would be standing standing out. There wouldn't be that
Speaker 1: many foreigners in there, and everyone you know your way
Speaker 1: around prison. You don't show weakness. You're in a foreign jail.
Speaker 1: You don't really understand the rules. Did you have fear
Speaker 1: for your life? Like I don't think I'm being too dramatically.
Speaker 1: Did you wonder whether you're going to survive?
Speaker 2: Plenty times? Plenty of times? Being game? I was. I
Speaker 2: was latter to revel that I was the cause. And
Speaker 2: I'm verieing the actors, you know, and if you speaking
Speaker 2: to me and miss Gene Gonci and it was then
Speaker 2: and you know I've asked because as only as a pastime,
Speaker 2: I've been bullied to shed some of an early aid
Speaker 2: call up. But I wasn't taking a number. So you know,
Speaker 2: I come where I stood, you know, be ground with anyone.
Speaker 2: Couldn't care that you was. But that was the problem
Speaker 2: with me up shape the environments, you know, kept quiet,
Speaker 2: rational face, see what was going on. It was like
Speaker 2: going to a football stadium. You know, the way you
Speaker 2: walked it was huge, there was you know, it was
Speaker 2: it was really it was. It was overwhelmed with the meats.
Speaker 1: How many Knights are in there?
Speaker 2: It was and they had four thousand in meats.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a that's a big prison in any
Speaker 1: for either here or over in the UK. That's huge.
Speaker 2: So you can imagine this was like this was like
Speaker 2: sheds to a shell.
Speaker 1: And here I was reading something that there was just
Speaker 1: looking at the dimensions you're talking about. I self twenty
Speaker 1: five football fifteen feet, which is four meters by say
Speaker 1: three and eighty prisoners that that top.
Speaker 2: Do you think even those of three to drop the
Speaker 2: middle and the bottom?
Speaker 1: Ah? Right, okay, in low show.
Speaker 2: You you'd be you'd have to come all down, have
Speaker 2: the legs of Brad Browns and you'd wake up. And
Speaker 2: if someone hugging yet and what's going on? It was?
Speaker 2: It was all what I mean, you had no escape
Speaker 2: and the way pain was if you have to go
Speaker 2: to the holy really, I was, you've got to death
Speaker 2: over It was way playing it a fucking game of
Speaker 2: trying to find a gap because you have to step
Speaker 2: over the body to get your bits of calabrity. And
Speaker 2: it was I remember bounding on a few people's feat
Speaker 2: and arms and that's mean. But not one of them
Speaker 2: reac think pip off, which was I think they were
Speaker 2: all understandingly.
Speaker 1: I suppose I cast them to it. But yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we've always leave just just on that surviving and going
Speaker 1: to the toilet. I imagine the food that you're eating
Speaker 1: wouldn't be agreeing with your stomach much so there would
Speaker 1: have been a lot of sickness from it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely the entirety year. And I remember, like the
Speaker 2: trollt You've got eighty people by the way in the slot.
Speaker 2: You've got to chaste on the troll and be like
Speaker 2: them all looking like you understanding there and the troll
Speaker 2: to you, Well, you're like, this is embarrassing. You know,
Speaker 2: this is the highest show up chession.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, little toy here.
Speaker 2: For lang for lang for lank em in there'm I
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, you know the speaking seeing in this language.
Speaker 2: You've got the way here? What sha you know? You
Speaker 2: just go away? I just want to use the trolling
Speaker 2: and PC but you can't. You know, you've got a
Speaker 2: bin next to the toilet which everyone washes. It washes
Speaker 2: the ash with, washes the teeth with, washing the place
Speaker 2: with all your chances that I've got. Yeah, you think
Speaker 2: this is dis questioning, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Well, I know what your mind just the way you're
Speaker 1: describing it. So what attitude did you hold to survive
Speaker 1: in there? Like you said you were you the arc
Speaker 1: ap like you wouldn't take ship from anyone? Is that, No,
Speaker 1: you're suss the situation there and then stand up for yourself.
Speaker 1: I would imagine you would have got into quite a
Speaker 1: few fights, isn't it.
Speaker 2: She was a few foreigners, right, It's not many would
Speaker 2: have bumped into an Australian guy. There was. There was
Speaker 2: Australians and an Iranian that was bullying everyone.
Speaker 1: I heard that in your book. Billy gave him a
Speaker 1: good spray. You didn't like him.
Speaker 2: And there was a Menathon, an Italian John Andaldo. They
Speaker 2: were they were quite old. That's been probably my ease
Speaker 2: now back then, you know, and they were all fit,
Speaker 2: physically overweighted, you know what I mean. They were harmless,
Speaker 2: but they were getting a hard time barely off these
Speaker 2: these young you're Australians. Me being me, I was listening
Speaker 2: to this, you know, through the show, because there's no
Speaker 2: doors and throw the gates. You should, you know, you
Speaker 2: should see what's going on and I should look leave.
Speaker 2: And I was saying, in give them a rest, you
Speaker 2: know from our only know our own culture agent. Can
Speaker 2: you be just taking easy on them? And you know
Speaker 2: there was they were. They was travel at me and
Speaker 2: I was shotting back at them, and like whatever you
Speaker 2: seen in the morning to that. Then in the morning
Speaker 2: them should have me and they she just went off.
Speaker 2: I ended up fighting with them all give it as
Speaker 2: good as we go. God, I've got a good ide
Speaker 2: and white Brook I'll still be ground. By doing that,
Speaker 2: I ended up getting removed from the western part of
Speaker 2: the Pisian culture, the tires and Westerns, Westerners mixed to
Speaker 2: just the type population. This became very did you and like?
Speaker 1: And it would have had to be earned, But did you?
Speaker 1: Did people leave your line? Did you? Everyone's going to
Speaker 1: take advantage if there's a weakness in prison, someone's gonna
Speaker 1: sweep on it. Did you hold your own through?
Speaker 2: Yeahs nave for me for lang bar, it's crazy go
Speaker 2: it because it was always.
Speaker 1: By Okay, that's probably a good reputation of carrying there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure they just fang bar. Just people wave only crazy.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I was very volatile that if we have to fighte
Speaker 2: with anyone and everyone taking drugs getting in jest, I've
Speaker 2: witnessed a few horrible things in there. People getting raped.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were in your in the movie. There's a
Speaker 1: signe and it's fairly graphic in the someone getting dragged
Speaker 1: off and raped in in the toilets or in one
Speaker 1: of the cells. That would have been fairly frequent in
Speaker 1: prison like that, I would imagine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was that was that was a regular occerdence.
Speaker 2: You know, people committed shoe It was another thing. You know,
Speaker 2: you walk past the shell and you see, you know,
Speaker 2: someone anger off the bars and what my thing was
Speaker 2: used to have like a twenty four hour watching the show,
Speaker 2: so you know you have and then mate sitting off
Speaker 2: hour after hour watching the nest of the inmates because
Speaker 2: colectively as a shell, if anyone you know died, then
Speaker 2: you'd get published. And that was one of the rules.
Speaker 2: You couldn't make super shy, ye had they? I think
Speaker 2: it was sense aswelve rules that they shouts over the
Speaker 2: tower no feeling that she learns of course, you know,
Speaker 2: no shoe shod and he's going to be asked. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I've done a presiding every morning. You'd have to stand
Speaker 2: to attention to, you know, the national lantern while the
Speaker 2: flag was being raised.
Speaker 1: Did you did you start to pick up the language?
Speaker 1: Did you learn learn the language in there?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Because I needed medication feeling I was getting all
Speaker 2: the wrong medication at the time, and I was like
Speaker 2: sand explained that I needed painkillers and not parta someone
Speaker 2: that needed op bait pain killers because you had these injuries.
Speaker 2: Who's going with Candice. I was already addicted to opiots anyway,
Speaker 2: and I was getting high off them, so you know,
Speaker 2: it was another of bonus Sol's just be that happened,
Speaker 2: you know, and just be here, I'd say, enough that clue.
Speaker 2: It's dense because the batter the reading rated reading race
Speaker 2: because I was bored and there was no English. Letisacial.
Speaker 2: You know, it was all about I have read it
Speaker 2: would be the bit of tay, which is useless anyway
Speaker 2: because I don't understand it as much as it force
Speaker 2: would like to.
Speaker 1: But it started to pick it, pick it up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I picked it up with them once.
Speaker 1: I suppose in that environment give you an advantage anyway
Speaker 1: to to understand or make life a little bit easier. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when it was more force, Yeah, well you got you've
Speaker 1: got no option. Yeah. You talked about saying people get
Speaker 1: sexually assaulted and and violence. There was one and I
Speaker 1: think it's in one interview that I've read that you
Speaker 1: did where someone was chased down and just stabbed to
Speaker 1: death in in in front of you do you want
Speaker 1: to just tell us through that story just to get
Speaker 1: to give people an understanding of what we're talking about here.
Speaker 1: This is not the this is yeah, this is a
Speaker 1: violent world that you're inhabiting in a prison like this.
Speaker 2: Well, what happened is I've got central prisons.
Speaker 1: It's a worse reputation, isn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well I had like eighteen thousand and makes eighteen
Speaker 2: to twenty thousand. It may see, it was a bigger complex.
Speaker 2: It was along more violence that they had shutting size
Speaker 2: Northern size and censil sage. You know, Muslims in there
Speaker 2: that I've overfielded, different Westerners in there, Australians and Meta Hills, Ranians, Guines,
Speaker 2: you had. The nationalities were saying there's quite quiz a
Speaker 2: lover of them in there, and and most of the
Speaker 2: nationalalysies shame buildings being so we have a fousand and
Speaker 2: it may saish one unit when I was and I
Speaker 2: never really got along with Potows with the ties in
Speaker 2: the end, and remember we were ship in the library.
Speaker 2: It was hot as well as there's always want to
Speaker 2: force his ring egg on the pavements. We get a
Speaker 2: little bit of schad to the za and they knew
Speaker 2: there was a few like little gangs there. There was
Speaker 2: this young lady used to have a bandanner see with
Speaker 2: the bands, and so we stood out and his chop
Speaker 2: for bands and had to use all over them and
Speaker 2: the roll zig zagging. And then he came and running
Speaker 2: packed his library, you know, one afternoon and he was
Speaker 2: gaming and he had the the fliff flocks scheiders on.
Speaker 2: He had had m you know, flopping as he was running,
Speaker 2: and there was a guy running behind him with her
Speaker 2: with a mite. You know, it was quite big. This
Speaker 2: is mad days. Then Warnin's drowning. There's a guy that
Speaker 2: high guy from running out from next to me with
Speaker 2: a chair, one of them metal chairs with wooden sheets
Speaker 2: like an old steel shir shruggling out and he whacked
Speaker 2: this this guy with the bandanner right across the chest.
Speaker 2: His claps it's for the guys on him and he
Speaker 2: starts stabbing him. But it's like and it was like
Speaker 2: it wasn't like it was like cold and calculated and
Speaker 2: there with death shots and he was targeting like his lunch,
Speaker 2: his neck, you know, they were going in very deep
Speaker 2: and he could the inhumans that will come up from
Speaker 2: this the bows of this man's game. This was done.
Speaker 2: It was like it was it was, it was had
Speaker 2: a flying it was wow.
Speaker 1: It was a.
Speaker 2: Frightening I all have to do with today. I was
Speaker 2: just locked in and the crowd starts as a form
Speaker 2: and it was late about forty to fifty people, even
Speaker 2: arm arm and the new roof tired the science to
Speaker 2: understand what they was shoting. That was Shane, kill him,
Speaker 2: kill him, killing the interesting, encourageing him and you know,
Speaker 2: he was just stopping the wistful blue everyone of the
Speaker 2: space and his boss was left in a pool of blows.
Speaker 2: And I'm saying Mary and passing felt guilty for not intervening.
Speaker 2: But at the same time of the databeat line and
Speaker 2: I replayed that moment vividly in my mind every night
Speaker 2: while it was in Michelle and in Bangkok, I couldn't
Speaker 2: sleep with Ketley vision repeating. They show motion that was
Speaker 2: quite like you always yeah, you didn't shock and everything
Speaker 2: show motion like valuable life was and how they devalue
Speaker 2: because the guy who got you know, Core for stabbing
Speaker 2: this kid and killing and we ended up getting four
Speaker 2: years for the Yeah, I think that was the maximum
Speaker 2: that could give, you know, made.
Speaker 1: Vision different, different world. There was another with the gangs
Speaker 1: in there. I read with the samurais infected.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had them. They were like they had ahead
Speaker 2: of the Yeah, although they would time. I never why
Speaker 2: they called them shemage.
Speaker 1: So what was there again? They are hi very infected
Speaker 1: and would threaten people with syringes and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were injecting their shells with would make shifted
Speaker 2: engines made out of barerel. Shame they can improvised a
Speaker 2: very clever since the main line of those who were
Speaker 2: doing what they could, they were like they were covered
Speaker 2: in tattoos from heads to top. But they were very
Speaker 2: very late. Guinny you romnsic case. And you know there
Speaker 2: were roads at the hospital once a weeks to pay
Speaker 2: for pace ivy medication. You know, I remember they getting
Speaker 2: in debt with them over over drugs over ahead of
Speaker 2: them edything again usual couldn't stop, you know, it was
Speaker 2: they were just in his shape. You know, they pulled
Speaker 2: us a shringe full of blood, but were really a
Speaker 2: bit of floats off everything, pay the chests, pulling home
Speaker 2: drums out for the having me with rape one violent
Speaker 2: physical abuse and it was just they was just kind
Speaker 2: of it. That's very fright. It got to a point
Speaker 2: better force. I'm going to tell you I really am.
Speaker 2: I was getting to a point of turtle of shepts
Speaker 2: in this Perasian beer. I didn't think of there ghettos alive. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's where I was at one point.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's some reasonable belie describing the environment
Speaker 1: you were in. That's yeah, very ununderstandable. And I said
Speaker 1: at the start, say it throughout. I think the human
Speaker 1: spirit's amazing because the situation you found in mate, you
Speaker 1: didn't have much going for you. It would have been easier,
Speaker 1: the path might assumed easier. Just okay, well if I
Speaker 1: die here, I get some peace, but you you found
Speaker 1: some degree of salvation and purpose getting back into your
Speaker 1: fighting in my tie. What what happened then?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I got into a lot of faith again.
Speaker 2: One of the pleasure officers, he was fond of me.
Speaker 2: He gave me the suggestion, and I thought, okay, just
Speaker 2: total by the weather spoke to you know, the box
Speaker 2: and the gi. Yeah, he kind of refused me, and
Speaker 2: see gave him he she get it you again. He
Speaker 2: let me in. I got a pair of mates, started
Speaker 2: it in the back. You know, when I went every
Speaker 2: day and on a davy basis. She started as a
Speaker 2: feeling every stronger than this city. I was laughing a
Speaker 2: bit more with me and Durance, and you know, and
Speaker 2: then the starts to speak to them. The starts to
Speaker 2: speak to me, and I became really friendly with them.
Speaker 2: He starts to talking about the theentire New Year and
Speaker 2: where they get involved in, you know, moveside competition with
Speaker 2: the best of the best in their prison. And I said, yeah,
Speaker 2: go on. He moved me as a a shell. But
Speaker 2: she'd call a home that geeler, which was the sports
Speaker 2: and it sounds very very good. You're only sports shell.
Speaker 2: That's okay, you get better, Tod. There's lesson in mats
Speaker 2: in there. There's a bit of cammaraderie, ship and a
Speaker 2: bit of units. He colectively. I felt a little that
Speaker 2: taste uh rol moves in. Unless started to become a
Speaker 2: little bit better. You know, I was eating well and
Speaker 2: I was on a good relationship basis with the rest
Speaker 2: of these size do you say boxers. It was just
Speaker 2: an incredible feeling. It was like the season and the
Speaker 2: applause and the chaptains had gone left somebody, Yeah, I
Speaker 2: can understand. Yeah, they had this choicely moments as belonging, not.
Speaker 1: Just belonging to you, you get some respect back about yourself.
Speaker 1: I would imagine the whole whole thing an environment that
Speaker 1: you feel comfortable in and you're respected for the effort
Speaker 1: that you put in, if it's in the boxing gym
Speaker 1: like that. But yeah, it's it's incredible that what you've
Speaker 1: been through and you can look back at this and
Speaker 1: and and talk about how did it get to the
Speaker 1: point where it was the prisoner transfer when you went
Speaker 1: back to the UK prison you spent three years in
Speaker 1: entire prisons roughly?
Speaker 2: Was that the Yeah, that's they're pretty easy. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's not a hell of a long time. You know,
Speaker 2: if you look at.
Speaker 1: From where I'm sitting in a way you described it,
Speaker 1: it's a long fucking three years.
Speaker 2: You know, I think I'm read for a way that way.
Speaker 2: You know, a year in a Thai prison compare to
Speaker 2: ten years in the in the US. Tennant sensity. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you can look at like because it was that Austin
Speaker 2: and it was that bad. It was run by inmates,
Speaker 2: the pigeons. It was quite volatile and violence every day.
Speaker 2: It was like a fight, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you survived that. To get through the dy and
Speaker 1: survive is an achievement.
Speaker 2: I'd wake open the day who knows Regardian It was
Speaker 2: a hypnotic beat travel right the prision and it was inmates,
Speaker 2: the Buddists praying bace. After that, he did, you know
Speaker 2: that the Fajar is when we called the player, and
Speaker 2: so you did these that the Muslims praying, and then
Speaker 2: the Buddhist praying and people are praying, you know, and
Speaker 2: then the doors opening, you know, leads into this and
Speaker 2: to the gates of hell, you know, where there's like
Speaker 2: market stores and people living on Lately, he'd say on
Speaker 2: the top of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm really interested in the fact that I didn't
Speaker 1: realize that was the basis of the name of the
Speaker 1: movie in the book. But that makes a lot of sense,
Speaker 1: and you've created that image very well. I can imagine
Speaker 1: it waking up to that type.
Speaker 2: Of just wait, they've just beached the wake up. They'll
Speaker 2: slowly be coming through the windows. And it was just
Speaker 2: before the all or the fourth place. Every morning it
Speaker 2: waked me up in the place. In the beginning, it
Speaker 2: was annoying, but then it became shows that they comfort
Speaker 2: and then it go. I was unlitially what had happened
Speaker 2: into the place system, but yeah, the pasted the ace.
Speaker 2: It was after three years, you know, the embassy were
Speaker 2: coming up on a regular basis. You know, it eventually came,
Speaker 2: but it was a bit of a It was a
Speaker 2: bit of a tough time. It was a cheap out
Speaker 2: of ten in March two and ten and Bangkok at
Speaker 2: the time was on fire. People were shutting brain I
Speaker 2: remember that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was like there.
Speaker 2: Was like a political party, the Red, the Red, the
Speaker 2: Yellows or something then so people were shotting fire as
Speaker 2: the buildings do. A block in the airport. Bangkok was
Speaker 2: your upthrow Tyland was It was a mess. I had
Speaker 2: this twice, a date that had been given to me,
Speaker 2: and it was I think it was the twenty twenty
Speaker 2: seven to short of mark. That day came and of
Speaker 2: being excited to go, and and it got canceled because
Speaker 2: of the airport was surrounded by a political mession protest
Speaker 2: protesters in the and and the I fell and I
Speaker 2: thought that's it, sending me back. But then a couple
Speaker 2: of days later, without any notice, I was called so
Speaker 2: we called up his sell and taken to reception and
Speaker 2: putting this quite. I'm come from like this grimy, deady
Speaker 2: environments into the christ Gleaming room with a big oval
Speaker 2: table with these supersishisial officers shipping on both sides, the
Speaker 2: Prevision Governor and May and a few of the Vision
Speaker 2: or forties sit in there.
Speaker 1: Your senses must be like this is this is crazy
Speaker 1: because it was just.
Speaker 2: Cheering of me. It was it was it was the
Speaker 2: handing over to the British policies. It was just jello
Speaker 2: of me. So you know they make a big show
Speaker 2: and sad like passing your onto to the British. The
Speaker 2: fabrics and you know I was taken from one to immigration,
Speaker 2: stayed in there five Chike showers and Sony flight with you.
Speaker 2: And it was midnight and I was taken to the
Speaker 2: airport by these che personal officers and you know I
Speaker 2: was handcuffed and they bought meal mass ls, you know,
Speaker 2: the quite sorry for asking me questions. Yeah, they've got
Speaker 2: a plane going on the plane as well that Jamie
Speaker 2: back to the UK. And you know it was freezing
Speaker 2: cold when they got off in March. The fatty face
Speaker 2: two times in a ten and then I was sound
Speaker 2: said was treason you know, I was another get again,
Speaker 2: another the stocks of the system of culture shot pay
Speaker 2: them a lot of things.
Speaker 1: Master look felt like luxury over themgand compared to what
Speaker 1: you come from. But I also imagine to a degree
Speaker 1: you're in the mindset that you're still backing in Thailand.
Speaker 2: So yeah, have a both back and tie, you know.
Speaker 2: And I was very shrub mission. Yes, you know, because
Speaker 2: you've been beaaten into me or drunned into me in Thailand,
Speaker 2: you know, because you're very you know, you had to
Speaker 2: really like you couldn't be above the patent offices. You
Speaker 2: have to lower yourselves, you know, you have to yeah,
Speaker 2: bounce down and you know everything was shipping on your
Speaker 2: knees and you slept on a wall. So when I
Speaker 2: went into the shelf in the UK and there was
Speaker 2: a massage on a bed, I couldn't cope place to
Speaker 2: sleep on the floor, and I put the matter on
Speaker 2: the floor. I was sleeping on the floor. I was
Speaker 2: it was seizing cold so old ones of the pipes.
Speaker 2: It was, you know, it was cooling off the shell.
Speaker 2: And I was speaking time half English and calling everyone's
Speaker 2: Shane and it was just Bob. And then he got
Speaker 2: like the couseuling it. Who speaks to me? You know,
Speaker 2: he wasn't weird. I carded to be fair, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean he was asking me chilly questions and that's all.
Speaker 2: I was just kind of to a tap. That's that
Speaker 2: kind of culture and that environment was it was a
Speaker 2: difficult process.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I was listening to the people complaining of the chips
Speaker 2: and that's shipping amaze. As you just see what I've
Speaker 2: been eating, right, I've had painting heads stop still with
Speaker 2: the weak on it and an eyeball and stinking you
Speaker 2: know what. That that's the kind of thing with that meeting,
Speaker 2: and you're complaining about the chips here and the chiffing.
Speaker 2: I don't like the fish might now made Yeah, apend
Speaker 2: stating months so I don't see usually montioned total.
Speaker 1: Was there you once you were released? You where did
Speaker 1: you write the book? Did you write the book when
Speaker 1: you were in prison or when you released from prison?
Speaker 2: Yea fast was writing the book when I was in Thailand.
Speaker 2: So astu factual information because afford the tear, you know,
Speaker 2: and writes it down. I'll document it so you have
Speaker 2: little notes. And then kind of it came to suation
Speaker 2: when I got to world. Later, I knew what I
Speaker 2: was writing. You know, it was memory, it was it
Speaker 2: was there, It was physically in mad environments and I've
Speaker 2: witnessed the show, so I write it down and it
Speaker 2: was fact. So it became a you know, chronologic female.
Speaker 2: I said, introduce your shelf and talk about me your
Speaker 2: back short and you know where that led the count
Speaker 2: to beauty factors and me behavior and you know what
Speaker 2: changed our final initiating situation is it?
Speaker 1: You know you find that find that cathartic like going
Speaker 1: through that telling the story.
Speaker 2: That's pretty much have ward. It was any healing because
Speaker 2: there was speaking that people are both as well. So
Speaker 2: it was a vision of telling them my story. They
Speaker 2: look on me alas with shock or he couldn't intensively,
Speaker 2: he couldn't release what you've seen this, you've seen she
Speaker 2: wanted to have them shot on the chest and you
Speaker 2: were just it was normal, y. Yeah, you know you've
Speaker 2: seen someone, you know, taking them shoves off this and
Speaker 2: you've seen people and they were looking at me a
Speaker 2: bit strange and I thought, hell, I can't even name
Speaker 2: self on the shorty without them bow. Yeah, that experience.
Speaker 2: I wrote it down. It was very it was very
Speaker 2: healing the process where he said.
Speaker 1: With the book, you've you've got it published. Then when
Speaker 1: did the film start to take off? When did people
Speaker 1: get interested in turning into a movie.
Speaker 2: So that was probably a boss I was feeling into
Speaker 2: the book was publish. You know. I went about silently
Speaker 2: shows to get a documentary or show him because it
Speaker 2: was it was You got to remember it was. It
Speaker 2: was before the podcasts and take off, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. It was in two thousand and eleven, twenty eleven,
Speaker 2: should Out the twelve of the book was published. Shootout
Speaker 2: the twelve in this Lee and not was really online
Speaker 2: as much as it is today. Yeah. Sure, I was
Speaker 2: shunting the busy. I remember walking down of the street
Speaker 2: called Huxley has seen a little shine seeing hurricane film
Speaker 2: ship the bid I walked in and refused to see
Speaker 2: me as an officiate manager. Yea, the share don't come
Speaker 2: back and kept coming back. They kept mess In the
Speaker 2: end they thay, can you leave your manuscript on your
Speaker 2: book and it's okay. I left it with its twelve
Speaker 2: months later that he got in such in me like
Speaker 2: we were delighted, we want to make this into a movie,
Speaker 2: Like they invite you in to have a chat about it,
Speaker 2: and that's when they I went in and I was thinking,
Speaker 2: you know, she's been a little a little homemade basically
Speaker 2: movie or something more or budget low budget. You know,
Speaker 2: wasn't it the best in the game. You know, a
Speaker 2: great director to be involved, the script writer, you know,
Speaker 2: and I'm up and coming actor from from from the
Speaker 2: UK to be you know, playing the role of Michelle.
Speaker 1: It was very exciting giving to know you in this
Speaker 1: check now he now nowed you to that actor in
Speaker 1: the movie The Painkillers.
Speaker 2: I have, Jimmy, you don't have in infamily and told
Speaker 2: you do tramadol for three, that's free for you. But Jimmy,
Speaker 2: it's not three. I've just seen you give it to
Speaker 2: five people in a row.
Speaker 1: Need to pay.
Speaker 2: No, No, I've got no money. I've got no money.
Speaker 2: I've been told it's free.
Speaker 1: You have to song for me.
Speaker 2: I don't have have no cigarettes. I've got no I've
Speaker 2: got nothing. But this is all not right.
Speaker 1: Give me.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of time with that act as you'll
Speaker 2: call it. Became really friendly with and still preens with
Speaker 2: him today. He was still in contact. Yeah, he understands the.
Speaker 1: Very complex Yeah, that's that's what came across Billy, That's
Speaker 1: what came across in the film and chatting with you
Speaker 1: now like it's there was the zanga, there's the sadness,
Speaker 1: there's all the emotions here. He saw the capture that
Speaker 1: you could relate to him the way that he portrayed
Speaker 1: you in the in the movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was very I was very impressed with that.
Speaker 2: We proceeded Michelson. I believe the time that he spent
Speaker 2: with me in the the method after he did was
Speaker 2: was it was spots on Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, he nailed it. So that was it was
Speaker 1: feature at Cannes Film Festival. So yeah, we're talking that
Speaker 1: was It was a big deal. It wasn't the local
Speaker 1: TV station making the movie.
Speaker 2: I was a center. They put on the biggest Gentlemans
Speaker 2: in Europe. There was a cars film Festival of the
Speaker 2: thing was that sticks to your anual events. Filch each
Speaker 2: wudd and was filing first of all the time and
Speaker 2: there was just incredible red carpet. I will say some
Speaker 2: of the actors from the movie with the ho call
Speaker 2: me shelf the director and it was just powerful, you know,
Speaker 2: like at the end I was watching it and I'll
Speaker 2: be there, and I was like changing watching it and
Speaker 2: on people are going to judge station.
Speaker 1: Was like.
Speaker 2: Like, this is what I told him. You know it's
Speaker 2: gonna like you. And that was there was own waste CITs.
Speaker 2: But at the end of the movie there was a
Speaker 2: rapture of applause that just went over for eight minutes.
Speaker 2: It was a fan of ovation and cheese. And I
Speaker 2: was like, what's going on here? And I was both
Speaker 2: at the the American Financid who was standing next with
Speaker 2: James Seamish, and I said that sepping here, I said,
Speaker 2: you know, and he liked it anyway. He said, hey, Billy,
Speaker 2: he said, we said we're in France. He's dead. And
Speaker 2: now I'll tell you this, he said, the wrench of
Speaker 2: the ways and examiners. Even if you hear they love
Speaker 2: this movie, he said, you know, if they were if
Speaker 2: you did LA, they didn't still care whether you do
Speaker 2: or not. He said that you know you've done really well.
Speaker 2: And you know the next day in the reports and
Speaker 2: then in all the moviesine articles online, it was LA shame.
Speaker 2: It was a great suck death. It was yesicized, as
Speaker 2: was having siticized as a as a good cult movie.
Speaker 2: So I was I would glad that. I was grateful
Speaker 2: that it was quite hockey.
Speaker 1: Look, and so much was happening in your life after that,
Speaker 1: like what you had had been through to get to
Speaker 1: that point, and yeah, the nature of your story, people
Speaker 1: would have been wanting to meet you. You would have
Speaker 1: been the man in the moment in that environment, and
Speaker 1: that can be daunting and overwhelming. And I'm sure with
Speaker 1: all the all the stuff that you carry carry from
Speaker 1: your past, it must have been confronting for you in
Speaker 1: a way as well.
Speaker 2: It was because I would carrying out impostership. I didn't
Speaker 2: believe it belongs in the kind of environments, you know.
Speaker 2: I was thinking, Look, I'm just a basy, mixed up kid,
Speaker 2: I'm a few bits. I've just had the sex variance,
Speaker 2: and you know, they've written a bad around all these
Speaker 2: big issers. They're all struck cheeseos. I don't really, you know,
Speaker 2: feel like I fit in with these type of people,
Speaker 2: you know. And I just rolled with it. And then
Speaker 2: it was just very difficult to chet late all the affirmation.
Speaker 2: At the time, no one as well that like, look
Speaker 2: was this day's over, It'll be another day for someone else.
Speaker 2: I knew that's just kind of just rolled with it,
Speaker 2: and it was, Yeah, it was. It was very an
Speaker 2: exciting moment. I was proud of the achievements, you know,
Speaker 2: and I didn't want to live in all that shame
Speaker 2: of me past.
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, have you ever wondered what goes on behind
Speaker 1: the headlines of a gang more or shooting, then you
Speaker 1: need to listen to crim City joined crime reporters Mark
Speaker 1: Murray and Josh Hemrahane as I uncovered the details of
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Speaker 1: City is out now. Listen early and ad free on
Speaker 1: Crime x plus on Apple Podcast Today. I think when
Speaker 1: you tell the story and you're honest, that yeah, if
Speaker 1: you hold shame, but if you're saying, well, this is
Speaker 1: who I am. You've put it in a book, it's
Speaker 1: played out in the film. You've got nothing to hide there,
Speaker 1: this is who I am. Take So I think there
Speaker 1: must have been that sort of thought going through your mind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like he Honestly, the your honesty is
Speaker 2: more sack than saying that. They pretend that you've got
Speaker 2: a big ego and you're not dead, and you know,
Speaker 2: you know usually usually look, you know, I was a
Speaker 2: diagonal sold them.
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 2: I was a proper mesh. I had an EmPATH on
Speaker 2: everyone's life. Negatively, you know, I wasn't really a valuable
Speaker 2: member of the community. You know, I'm sure what was
Speaker 2: your face everywhere mentioned all the beautiful last if you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. But now come like full share,
Speaker 2: you know, I like you shad at the beginning and
Speaker 2: this is what's imposed. And I spoke about this today,
Speaker 2: which is quite states. You know what Becausin who said,
Speaker 2: he said to me, he said, you know what, Bill,
Speaker 2: He's just you know, why did you think you're Yeah,
Speaker 2: I said, really Knowsted, you've been through that many nature
Speaker 2: for staining, So so she's ya, you know, collisions, your stabbings,
Speaker 2: you've been stabbed, you're being shot at. You know, you've
Speaker 2: had you you know, you've been molds, You've been through
Speaker 2: a lot. Right, So why said someone's got to be
Speaker 2: looking after someone's got to be watching over you, because
Speaker 2: I'm kind of like get about all that stuff. But
Speaker 2: I believe there's some kind of incidental I believe in
Speaker 2: me for a reason. I don't know whether what that
Speaker 2: is this, but now you know, I know what to
Speaker 2: do today is Yeah, it's be that role model for people.
Speaker 2: Be that Paton who can nature others, you know people,
Speaker 2: be that patient you going off for guidance and say
Speaker 2: look there's a way out there, you know, being in
Speaker 2: for almost seven years. No, I maintain accidents that don't
Speaker 2: drink it'll slogan ull usual booze there, no me late.
Speaker 2: Today is a far acay from what it was. I'm
Speaker 2: sold if I never have kids who got cheap, bunching,
Speaker 2: little baby blous. Now you've got a lovely family. This
Speaker 2: is you know, I've never believed in a million years
Speaker 2: above you know. So it's just it's just just it's
Speaker 2: like it's like play yet it thinks someone else's live.
Speaker 2: I'd never believe that was my life. That kid in
Speaker 2: that film kept making show any mistakes, so he had
Speaker 2: that many chances of were thinking I was looking for Michelle.
Speaker 1: It's funny you should say that like your story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you've had your setbacks. You step forward, you look like
Speaker 1: you've made it, you fall back down. I sit there
Speaker 1: and watch it. When I was reading your books or
Speaker 1: watching the movie, I'm thinking, no, don't get in in
Speaker 1: this path, don't do that, like and you're it's funny
Speaker 1: you're sitting there thinking the same thing. Come on, Billy,
Speaker 1: you can do this.
Speaker 2: But Billy, whenever it's I was thinking, what's going on?
Speaker 2: You've got that Maody's chances. Yeah, it was like I
Speaker 2: was left the spoons and all of them shelves and
Speaker 2: look at all loves Bobby. But it was yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: you'd have to fall a few times before your stones.
Speaker 1: Up on most definitely, and you've got to. But you know,
Speaker 1: we talk redemption, and I really like pushing that in
Speaker 1: on this this show redemption because you get people. I've
Speaker 1: seen people, we've all been there. You're at this low point,
Speaker 1: you think I'm never going to turn this around, and
Speaker 1: then we see a story like like yours, and you know, look,
Speaker 1: you got you've got two kids, you're enjoying life. You've
Speaker 1: lived a life, but you're still here. So I think
Speaker 1: there's some motivation and inspiration for people here in your story.
Speaker 1: And I think that's why it certainly resonated with me.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, ship, who is this blake? How how has
Speaker 1: he survived?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: How did where's that human spirit come from?
Speaker 2: And because I was what My thing was I was
Speaker 2: daying all.
Speaker 1: I forgot your cancer story. Yeah, that's another number one.
Speaker 1: When did you get diagnosed with cancer?
Speaker 2: Two times of the ship?
Speaker 1: Right? Okay, so you're going through the whole prison experience
Speaker 1: and then you got hit with that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So that being through that experience and come out at
Speaker 2: this glorious book that addressed that became a movie that
Speaker 2: I'm on the shed and I guess I gets it
Speaker 2: with cancer and filling to that was that was like
Speaker 2: and Rod the handling me life me. I was diavolged
Speaker 2: with cancer after passed away from cancer, and I had
Speaker 2: to you know, he made amends met the last seven
Speaker 2: years of his life.
Speaker 1: You know that's good.
Speaker 2: He never really shed much. But you know, at the
Speaker 2: end of his life, you know, he said he loved me,
Speaker 2: and that was I believe. And then I had this
Speaker 2: out of the chept and surround you know, maybe you
Speaker 2: know he had his whole little battles with his life,
Speaker 2: and you know, we never really shared much of bout it,
Speaker 2: so I can't I add that to giveness, which you
Speaker 2: can't of give me a better piece. But then I
Speaker 2: got diagnosed with it, and you know, I ended up
Speaker 2: with Stacey. Cancer brought me ways, you know, lot hay.
Speaker 2: Everything a photag is the end and you know kind
Speaker 2: of manage to get through it, you know. So that
Speaker 2: was a load of handling, you know what. And then
Speaker 2: they share the good back kids and then that's w
Speaker 2: share them with these tree little boys now and they
Speaker 2: be careful what you wish for greatly.
Speaker 1: How how old about it?
Speaker 2: Well one was for ones alet.
Speaker 1: Oh jeez, Billy, and here I am keeping you up
Speaker 1: to no wonder you're worried, keeping you up to midnight
Speaker 1: to do the podcast. I'm sorry. I apologize.
Speaker 2: I've got a couple of step kids as well. They
Speaker 2: were quite a bit old. You know, things things are okay,
Speaker 2: and you know, away along Tiddy. You know, an organization
Speaker 2: was just called Weapons Down, which we deal with interventions
Speaker 2: with young kids, and you know, you know gang culture,
Speaker 2: man county lines, you know, vision and consequences, mental health, addiction.
Speaker 2: I kind of covered all aspects of I've got the experience.
Speaker 1: Well you got the life experience, and and people like you,
Speaker 1: people that kids if they're heating in the wrong direction,
Speaker 1: listen to But what was the name of the organization?
Speaker 1: Weapons Day and fists Up?
Speaker 2: Weapons down.
Speaker 1: I like it.
Speaker 2: I like it.
Speaker 1: That's because yeah, we've got a bit of a problem
Speaker 1: over here in Australia. And I know it's you've probably
Speaker 1: got the same thing in the UK, but with weapons
Speaker 1: and knives and and and all that that it's something
Speaker 1: that really try to see people away.
Speaker 2: And I'm under no illusion that we're not going to
Speaker 2: reach everyone, it's all. And I mean we can only
Speaker 2: I mean if he reach a few people, then that's
Speaker 2: there's a ribble of effect. And I know the ribble
Speaker 2: effect because of my ripple effect. I had the shape
Speaker 2: of people around me, don't really struggling and shuffled them.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Now they're phoning me up and asking me for help
Speaker 2: me mum, you know, she she she brings me up
Speaker 2: for guidance to report. And you know that was never
Speaker 2: on the cards. It was always just all getting shotting
Speaker 2: with feet, keep aways. You know, you're the shoulders and
Speaker 2: the banish. And now it's it's not like that. What
Speaker 2: sholl ever, you know, it's quite different difference. Have got
Speaker 2: a blood to do these as show that was a
Speaker 2: bit of a struggle growing roughly looking after him as well,
Speaker 2: that he's missed him. But now he's like my little rock.
Speaker 2: And you know, I've spent a lot of time with
Speaker 2: him because he had a lot of guilt over It's
Speaker 2: like dismissing him as a young kid. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: he wasn't physically and he can't. He was medley, but
Speaker 2: he couldn't really rebilage or understand or he wasn't aware.
Speaker 2: And he's forty five now and he you know, he's
Speaker 2: got you know, he's got his he's got his accomplishes,
Speaker 2: but he's just a lovable guy that you know, was
Speaker 2: very popular now in Liverpool because I put him on
Speaker 2: the platform. I don't shy away from the autism side
Speaker 2: of things, and I didn't realize how his spying it
Speaker 2: was for others to go, Okay, I've got a family member.
Speaker 2: You know. I was always worrying that, you know, that
Speaker 2: he wouldn't be able to trow and he wouldn't be
Speaker 2: able to be a productive member of society. Now by
Speaker 2: the way, you know in these you know he waited testing.
Speaker 2: That's so it shouldn't embarrass.
Speaker 1: Stuff like that. And you can make a difference and
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, you talked about the posta syndrome and
Speaker 1: you know, hanging on to the guilt that you weren't
Speaker 1: good for society. But mate, I got to say, sitting
Speaker 1: here and listening to your story and just getting a
Speaker 1: sense of who you are, you're putting you're putting more
Speaker 1: good than the bad that you you created. So you
Speaker 1: balance the ledger I reckon you can, Yeah, give yourself
Speaker 1: a bit of leeway. We all make mistakes, That's how
Speaker 1: we come from.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I speaks to Michel Coss. You know what
Speaker 2: you acknowledge that the fact that you're not outdare committing crime.
Speaker 2: Still you're not out there, you're not telling your story,
Speaker 2: but they living a living a bad life, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. But I'm sure that people on these
Speaker 2: platforms that would show the belt made would still out
Speaker 2: David in Segacy. You know, I don't done that, and
Speaker 2: I know for the fact that there's people like that,
Speaker 2: and I don't want to be one of those those
Speaker 2: people who you haven't got the insangy. You know, I
Speaker 2: won't be inside the out size But she is what
Speaker 2: I do because I'm in a public you know, arena,
Speaker 2: and I don't want to be sheen.
Speaker 1: To be doing no and with that comes the responsibility.
Speaker 1: But it looks like you're reading to it.
Speaker 2: Ye, it gives you the responsibility of the comfortability.
Speaker 1: All right, well, look, I think we might wrap it
Speaker 1: up here. Billy, I really really enjoyed, enjoyed the chat,
Speaker 1: and it's something I say to you. I've burnt a
Speaker 1: fan of you because of your story from the moment
Speaker 1: I saw the movie, and I'm really excited I've got
Speaker 1: the opportunity to sit down and have it have a
Speaker 1: chat with you. So all the best for you for
Speaker 1: the future. And yeah, thanks for coming on I Catch Killers.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Well. I got to say I love my job hosting
Speaker 1: I Catch Killers podcast because I've been fascinated with Billy's
Speaker 1: story ever since I watched his movie. The fact that
Speaker 1: what he survived and how he turned his life around
Speaker 1: is just amazing, and I think it's a real privilege
Speaker 1: for me to be able to sit down and have
Speaker 1: a chat with him. And I gotta say I like
Speaker 1: the bloke. He's very impressive and testament to the human
Speaker 1: spirit that he came through what he came through, and
Speaker 1: I just think he's a good Felow