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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective see a side of life the average persons never

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Speaker 1: exposed her. I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to part two of my chat with englishmen

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Speaker 1: Billy Moore. Billy's had an interesting life, to say the least.

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Speaker 1: He spent eighteen years in prison in the UK and

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Speaker 1: Thailands and survived some of the most brutal prisons in

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Speaker 1: the world. I'd have to say. One we talked to

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Speaker 1: Billy about his life, what led up to him living

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Speaker 1: in Thailand, and we just got to the point where

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Speaker 1: his life was starting the spiral out of control. He'd

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Speaker 1: been cleaned for a number of years. A couple of

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Speaker 1: things on the emotional front with a relationship sort of

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Speaker 1: steered him in the direction where he fell back into

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Speaker 1: the addiction to drugs and his life started to unravel. Billy,

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Speaker 1: let's let's take it up to when it really did

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Speaker 1: it unravel? When you get a knock at the door

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Speaker 1: or you get locked up. What happened?

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Speaker 2: I was getting really indeed mold with this year destruct

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Speaker 2: making loads of mistake shows, buying phones because of paranoid

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Speaker 2: that people were listening to me the start as they

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Speaker 2: really get paramoid on this store, had I a room

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Speaker 2: full of weapons and the enemies. I've lost loads of weights.

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Speaker 2: I could probably hang glads off that skinny, you know.

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Speaker 2: I made the adda of mostly there would say boxers

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Speaker 2: started befriended. That was I was saying a bit in

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Speaker 2: the past. And there was this one ago are you?

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Speaker 2: It used to give all the time, but he never did,

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Speaker 2: you know. And the last the last time we asked you,

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Speaker 2: I said, now giving you on and then he phones

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Speaker 2: me up. I don't even know what time was it

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Speaker 2: answer phone, It must have been ten am whatever, saying

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Speaker 2: to me on the phone, biddy, I have your shows,

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Speaker 2: your training shows that in my my taxi because you

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Speaker 2: had a talk too. I was like, yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 2: was asleep. You know, they bring them to you. It's okay.

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Speaker 2: So where I would follow them where I was with

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Speaker 2: a partner to was and I'll put the phones on

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Speaker 2: the minute to put the phones on. And I was like,

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Speaker 2: why is he around me? Why is he? Why is he? Where?

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Speaker 2: Does he want to go out of his way to

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Speaker 2: bring me something? What's his motors? And I looked around

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Speaker 2: the room. He had cannabis stare. He had a room

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Speaker 2: full of weapons. Like I said, I had a cold

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Speaker 2: forty five or stonegull samurai shorts. It was just ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Who told me Toda to go to the toe.

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Speaker 1: And have a little lookus just didn't feel right.

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Speaker 2: Look, and I've seen these our members up the stairs,

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Speaker 2: you know, and the way dressed in please attire, but

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Speaker 2: a new straight away to it on the cover please.

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Speaker 2: And I shut the door, and a panicked, and I

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Speaker 2: grabbed the pillows and I grabbed the candish, and I

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Speaker 2: shoved down with the shoulders and shine and I shouted

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Speaker 2: with me back to the door. And looked around the

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Speaker 2: shan theo and thoughts, oh my god, there's a there's

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Speaker 2: a gun on the table laid there's this weapons. What

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do? And they were bagging on the

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Speaker 2: door and I was stolen. There was no way out

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Speaker 2: to do. I was on the fourth floor. There was

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Speaker 2: no windsor to be shing from the back way waved.

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Speaker 2: It was up to the veranda where they were standing,

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Speaker 2: so just that they were please. So I was like,

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Speaker 2: can you prove it? Can you show me any id?

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Speaker 2: And the carts laid under the door. I didn't even

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Speaker 2: have to look at it, and please anyway, I don't

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Speaker 2: know why I was starting, what it was doing with that.

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Speaker 2: I grab a few more moments going over the door.

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Speaker 2: They were on the floor. The attacked me, put me

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Speaker 2: in a position, but he put cuffs on me, you know,

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Speaker 2: give me a few slaps and then started rather room

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Speaker 2: shadily and picking things up look for the drug with

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Speaker 2: the drugs. He didn't find any drugs. They found a

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Speaker 2: lot of paraphernalia, but it broke DUTs visible. I to

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Speaker 2: the gun, the guy they used them the slogan he

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Speaker 2: pulled out to go. He started to pil up these

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Speaker 2: mobile phones. I didn't know what was getting down in

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Speaker 2: the background as you back master into this court yard

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Speaker 2: and put into this police fan I'm taking to the

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Speaker 2: local police division, put in this shell that was that

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Speaker 2: you know, I was in there for tea.

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Speaker 1: When were you When were you taking it to the prison?

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Speaker 1: What what's the processes you kept in caustody with the place?

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Speaker 1: When when did you end up in the prison.

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Speaker 2: So what happened right was when I was in the

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Speaker 2: police fan, I was explaining to that see what happens

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Speaker 2: to me? I tell you know. And whether it be

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Speaker 2: you don't allowed.

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Speaker 1: Leave the country, can't bet yeah.

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Speaker 2: Months you can going to visa. Don't want a month

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Speaker 2: the may man whatever, just to get a samp come

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Speaker 2: back and bang bow. You can do that after three months.

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Speaker 2: But that's the team ons. You gotta leave the cosey.

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Speaker 2: So I have to lead the comy for tuesdays and

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Speaker 2: come back. Do you have a team of visa left

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Speaker 2: the country on a Friday, was coming back on a Monday.

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Speaker 2: By coming back on they have a team month visa.

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Speaker 2: I didn't have to go to the boorders every every month,

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Speaker 2: but on that the Friday was shape for buying me

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Speaker 2: Yaba pills over the Aca was the tea best apport,

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Speaker 2: all the Yaba pills. They hope you got a boat

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Speaker 2: as well. I was smoke and I thought I was

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Speaker 2: kinda bit shup of time. He and I was going

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Speaker 2: a bike out of defenses because it was quite used

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Speaker 2: to vetting. Little hold. I was driving on the wrong

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Speaker 2: side of the road. No, he had this whistling, A

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Speaker 2: couple of gales standing on the corner. They were whistling.

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Speaker 2: It is actually man, I looked, you know, by the

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Speaker 2: time I look back, there was a show Taxi's heading

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Speaker 2: my way. I never had the chance to stop. I was,

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Speaker 2: I was. There was a collision. I was heading into it. Hey,

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Speaker 2: David made the bike. I was on winning. They just

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Speaker 2: flew right in the eight under on my chests. The

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Speaker 2: shaft hees broke me. The putting me long because at

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Speaker 2: the amber bable right through the summar the shadow, I

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Speaker 2: mean literally both the summer. You know, I couldn't breathe,

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Speaker 2: and I remember the these Moatians started picking me up

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Speaker 2: and put short water down me thrown, you know, do

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Speaker 2: things to me, and I have what's going on here?

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Speaker 2: What the what the fuck are you doing here? And

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Speaker 2: they ate the Irish actions, laying malone and every y malone.

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Speaker 2: And he put me in this wheelbarrow, that he should

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Speaker 2: get him liberty the horsball and put me in a

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Speaker 2: wheel barrow. There was bloodpoorting mounts of everywhere. There was

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Speaker 2: at this shrafter with a blood dained jacket, play both

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Speaker 2: of a pen with these shoe shoulders shaded with banana clicks,

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Speaker 2: taking pictures of me. And they're verstrowing me that I

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Speaker 2: had a big cook the bay becausing my lunch must

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Speaker 2: have they moved. They have bowled from me, from me

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Speaker 2: long at the time, and I have to breathe. And

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Speaker 2: he said to this this this the shot shall to

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Speaker 2: get me out of you, because what was going through

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Speaker 2: my bus. You had a thousand gabba pills and you

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Speaker 2: put it. And I was thinking, these huge soldiers are year.

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Speaker 2: They were just there because he has a big shure.

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Speaker 2: It was okay. It was a national. He got me

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Speaker 2: to his the partments in a low because he was

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Speaker 2: a T shirt over there proposed me until in the

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Speaker 2: morning I was in I was in a mess. It

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Speaker 2: was ever very bad backstage and stayed at the hospital Laypacrimos.

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Speaker 2: I was in a bad back plate in front of

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Speaker 2: the prison.

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Speaker 1: So you and those those injuries hadn't fully recovered.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, they ended up having two shares of

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Speaker 2: co operations in the same prison.

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Speaker 1: Jesus, that's that's not what you want. Yeah, okay, so

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Speaker 1: you banged up the bike accident before you're locked up. Now, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you've they've they've got you with phones and weapons or

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Speaker 1: weapon or whatever. What's the time were you're realistically looking

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Speaker 1: at doing?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I had no idea, really, I had no idea.

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Speaker 2: I had like images of like imagining myself. Do you

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Speaker 2: like ten to fifteen maybe you know that kind of

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Speaker 2: double figures. The protests have gone from the b station's

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Speaker 2: court to about Creasy's and went to court. I was

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Speaker 2: taking into a cord with another standard waves got taken

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Speaker 2: two changed my prison on this boat. But dish diesel

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Speaker 2: being meats and they institution into the prison established us.

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Speaker 2: You know, Flip Chase was a showered in front of

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Speaker 2: these prison officer shoes for the bowl on the whistel.

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Speaker 2: The whistles gone. You're putting bowls of water on you,

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Speaker 2: you know, you're washing your shels on and it was

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Speaker 2: it was late, it was all like what mad by

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Speaker 2: this time. Then we had to squat on the floor

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Speaker 2: and four others had to share a ball of ration,

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Speaker 2: some some meal that we couldn't even describe. And a

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Speaker 2: stone gets cold and swarge hovering and above it and

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Speaker 2: mistinking that comes from there. And we will lease mass

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Speaker 2: into this shell cell block the induction style. That's where

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Speaker 2: name you know that I said in part one has

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Speaker 2: to sleep nest of this dish games And this lady

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Speaker 2: boy called Siffany. You want these big musht breasts and

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Speaker 2: this boot shoe which shed nor money nor buddy.

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Speaker 1: They're all part of the prison. They're inmates in there,

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Speaker 1: lady boys.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the de have all parts of the prison which

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Speaker 2: places would have been there at the same So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: there was a fief experience, to say the least.

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Speaker 1: When you when you say freaky, it seems like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a horror experience going in there, and it's something

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Speaker 1: completely foreign and the environment that's foreign to But also

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Speaker 1: you would be standing standing out. There wouldn't be that

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Speaker 1: many foreigners in there, and everyone you know your way

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Speaker 1: around prison. You don't show weakness. You're in a foreign jail.

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Speaker 1: You don't really understand the rules. Did you have fear

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Speaker 1: for your life? Like I don't think I'm being too dramatically.

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Speaker 1: Did you wonder whether you're going to survive?

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Speaker 2: Plenty times? Plenty of times? Being game? I was. I

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Speaker 2: was latter to revel that I was the cause. And

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Speaker 2: I'm verieing the actors, you know, and if you speaking

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Speaker 2: to me and miss Gene Gonci and it was then

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Speaker 2: and you know I've asked because as only as a pastime,

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Speaker 2: I've been bullied to shed some of an early aid

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Speaker 2: call up. But I wasn't taking a number. So you know,

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Speaker 2: I come where I stood, you know, be ground with anyone.

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Speaker 2: Couldn't care that you was. But that was the problem

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Speaker 2: with me up shape the environments, you know, kept quiet,

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Speaker 2: rational face, see what was going on. It was like

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Speaker 2: going to a football stadium. You know, the way you

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Speaker 2: walked it was huge, there was you know, it was

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Speaker 2: it was really it was. It was overwhelmed with the meats.

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Speaker 1: How many Knights are in there?

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Speaker 2: It was and they had four thousand in meats.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a that's a big prison in any

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Speaker 1: for either here or over in the UK. That's huge.

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Speaker 2: So you can imagine this was like this was like

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Speaker 2: sheds to a shell.

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Speaker 1: And here I was reading something that there was just

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Speaker 1: looking at the dimensions you're talking about. I self twenty

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Speaker 1: five football fifteen feet, which is four meters by say

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Speaker 1: three and eighty prisoners that that top.

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Speaker 2: Do you think even those of three to drop the

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Speaker 2: middle and the bottom?

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Speaker 1: Ah? Right, okay, in low show.

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Speaker 2: You you'd be you'd have to come all down, have

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Speaker 2: the legs of Brad Browns and you'd wake up. And

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Speaker 2: if someone hugging yet and what's going on? It was?

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Speaker 2: It was all what I mean, you had no escape

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Speaker 2: and the way pain was if you have to go

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Speaker 2: to the holy really, I was, you've got to death

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Speaker 2: over It was way playing it a fucking game of

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Speaker 2: trying to find a gap because you have to step

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Speaker 2: over the body to get your bits of calabrity. And

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Speaker 2: it was I remember bounding on a few people's feat

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Speaker 2: and arms and that's mean. But not one of them

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Speaker 2: reac think pip off, which was I think they were

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Speaker 2: all understandingly.

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Speaker 1: I suppose I cast them to it. But yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've always leave just just on that surviving and going

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Speaker 1: to the toilet. I imagine the food that you're eating

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be agreeing with your stomach much so there would

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Speaker 1: have been a lot of sickness from it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely the entirety year. And I remember, like the

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Speaker 2: trollt You've got eighty people by the way in the slot.

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Speaker 2: You've got to chaste on the troll and be like

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Speaker 2: them all looking like you understanding there and the troll

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Speaker 2: to you, Well, you're like, this is embarrassing. You know,

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Speaker 2: this is the highest show up chession.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, little toy here.

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Speaker 2: For lang for lang for lank em in there'm I

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, you know the speaking seeing in this language.

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Speaker 2: You've got the way here? What sha you know? You

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Speaker 2: just go away? I just want to use the trolling

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Speaker 2: and PC but you can't. You know, you've got a

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Speaker 2: bin next to the toilet which everyone washes. It washes

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Speaker 2: the ash with, washes the teeth with, washing the place

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Speaker 2: with all your chances that I've got. Yeah, you think

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Speaker 2: this is dis questioning, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Well, I know what your mind just the way you're

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Speaker 1: describing it. So what attitude did you hold to survive

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Speaker 1: in there? Like you said you were you the arc

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Speaker 1: ap like you wouldn't take ship from anyone? Is that, No,

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Speaker 1: you're suss the situation there and then stand up for yourself.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine you would have got into quite a

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Speaker 1: few fights, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: She was a few foreigners, right, It's not many would

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Speaker 2: have bumped into an Australian guy. There was. There was

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Speaker 2: Australians and an Iranian that was bullying everyone.

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Speaker 1: I heard that in your book. Billy gave him a

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Speaker 1: good spray. You didn't like him.

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Speaker 2: And there was a Menathon, an Italian John Andaldo. They

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Speaker 2: were they were quite old. That's been probably my ease

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Speaker 2: now back then, you know, and they were all fit,

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Speaker 2: physically overweighted, you know what I mean. They were harmless,

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Speaker 2: but they were getting a hard time barely off these

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Speaker 2: these young you're Australians. Me being me, I was listening

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Speaker 2: to this, you know, through the show, because there's no

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Speaker 2: doors and throw the gates. You should, you know, you

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Speaker 2: should see what's going on and I should look leave.

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Speaker 2: And I was saying, in give them a rest, you

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Speaker 2: know from our only know our own culture agent. Can

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Speaker 2: you be just taking easy on them? And you know

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Speaker 2: there was they were. They was travel at me and

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Speaker 2: I was shotting back at them, and like whatever you

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Speaker 2: seen in the morning to that. Then in the morning

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Speaker 2: them should have me and they she just went off.

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Speaker 2: I ended up fighting with them all give it as

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Speaker 2: good as we go. God, I've got a good ide

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Speaker 2: and white Brook I'll still be ground. By doing that,

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Speaker 2: I ended up getting removed from the western part of

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Speaker 2: the Pisian culture, the tires and Westerns, Westerners mixed to

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Speaker 2: just the type population. This became very did you and like?

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Speaker 1: And it would have had to be earned, But did you?

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Speaker 1: Did people leave your line? Did you? Everyone's going to

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Speaker 1: take advantage if there's a weakness in prison, someone's gonna

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Speaker 1: sweep on it. Did you hold your own through?

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Speaker 2: Yeahs nave for me for lang bar, it's crazy go

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Speaker 2: it because it was always.

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Speaker 1: By Okay, that's probably a good reputation of carrying there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sure they just fang bar. Just people wave only crazy.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I was very volatile that if we have to fighte

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Speaker 2: with anyone and everyone taking drugs getting in jest, I've

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Speaker 2: witnessed a few horrible things in there. People getting raped.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they were in your in the movie. There's a

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Speaker 1: signe and it's fairly graphic in the someone getting dragged

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Speaker 1: off and raped in in the toilets or in one

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Speaker 1: of the cells. That would have been fairly frequent in

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Speaker 1: prison like that, I would imagine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was that was that was a regular occerdence.

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Speaker 2: You know, people committed shoe It was another thing. You know,

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Speaker 2: you walk past the shell and you see, you know,

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Speaker 2: someone anger off the bars and what my thing was

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Speaker 2: used to have like a twenty four hour watching the show,

314
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Speaker 2: so you know you have and then mate sitting off

315
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Speaker 2: hour after hour watching the nest of the inmates because

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Speaker 2: colectively as a shell, if anyone you know died, then

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Speaker 2: you'd get published. And that was one of the rules.

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Speaker 2: You couldn't make super shy, ye had they? I think

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Speaker 2: it was sense aswelve rules that they shouts over the

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Speaker 2: tower no feeling that she learns of course, you know,

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Speaker 2: no shoe shod and he's going to be asked. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I've done a presiding every morning. You'd have to stand

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Speaker 2: to attention to, you know, the national lantern while the

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Speaker 2: flag was being raised.

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Speaker 1: Did you did you start to pick up the language?

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Speaker 1: Did you learn learn the language in there?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Because I needed medication feeling I was getting all

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Speaker 2: the wrong medication at the time, and I was like

329
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Speaker 2: sand explained that I needed painkillers and not parta someone

330
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Speaker 2: that needed op bait pain killers because you had these injuries.

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Speaker 2: Who's going with Candice. I was already addicted to opiots anyway,

332
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Speaker 2: and I was getting high off them, so you know,

333
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Speaker 2: it was another of bonus Sol's just be that happened,

334
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Speaker 2: you know, and just be here, I'd say, enough that clue.

335
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Speaker 2: It's dense because the batter the reading rated reading race

336
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Speaker 2: because I was bored and there was no English. Letisacial.

337
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Speaker 2: You know, it was all about I have read it

338
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Speaker 2: would be the bit of tay, which is useless anyway

339
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Speaker 2: because I don't understand it as much as it force

340
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Speaker 2: would like to.

341
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Speaker 1: But it started to pick it, pick it up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I picked it up with them once.

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Speaker 1: I suppose in that environment give you an advantage anyway

344
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Speaker 1: to to understand or make life a little bit easier. Yeah,

345
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Speaker 1: when it was more force, Yeah, well you got you've

346
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Speaker 1: got no option. Yeah. You talked about saying people get

347
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Speaker 1: sexually assaulted and and violence. There was one and I

348
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Speaker 1: think it's in one interview that I've read that you

349
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Speaker 1: did where someone was chased down and just stabbed to

350
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Speaker 1: death in in in front of you do you want

351
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Speaker 1: to just tell us through that story just to get

352
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Speaker 1: to give people an understanding of what we're talking about here.

353
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Speaker 1: This is not the this is yeah, this is a

354
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Speaker 1: violent world that you're inhabiting in a prison like this.

355
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Speaker 2: Well, what happened is I've got central prisons.

356
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Speaker 1: It's a worse reputation, isn't.

357
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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well I had like eighteen thousand and makes eighteen

358
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Speaker 2: to twenty thousand. It may see, it was a bigger complex.

359
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,919
Speaker 2: It was along more violence that they had shutting size

360
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Speaker 2: Northern size and censil sage. You know, Muslims in there

361
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Speaker 2: that I've overfielded, different Westerners in there, Australians and Meta Hills, Ranians, Guines,

362
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:44,680
Speaker 2: you had. The nationalities were saying there's quite quiz a

363
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Speaker 2: lover of them in there, and and most of the

364
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Speaker 2: nationalalysies shame buildings being so we have a fousand and

365
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Speaker 2: it may saish one unit when I was and I

366
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Speaker 2: never really got along with Potows with the ties in

367
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Speaker 2: the end, and remember we were ship in the library.

368
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:03,879
Speaker 2: It was hot as well as there's always want to

369
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Speaker 2: force his ring egg on the pavements. We get a

370
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,560
Speaker 2: little bit of schad to the za and they knew

371
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,399
Speaker 2: there was a few like little gangs there. There was

372
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Speaker 2: this young lady used to have a bandanner see with

373
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Speaker 2: the bands, and so we stood out and his chop

374
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,080
Speaker 2: for bands and had to use all over them and

375
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,920
Speaker 2: the roll zig zagging. And then he came and running

376
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:28,680
Speaker 2: packed his library, you know, one afternoon and he was

377
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,879
Speaker 2: gaming and he had the the fliff flocks scheiders on.

378
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,760
Speaker 2: He had had m you know, flopping as he was running,

379
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,199
Speaker 2: and there was a guy running behind him with her

380
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:41,399
Speaker 2: with a mite. You know, it was quite big. This

381
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,119
Speaker 2: is mad days. Then Warnin's drowning. There's a guy that

382
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,520
Speaker 2: high guy from running out from next to me with

383
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Speaker 2: a chair, one of them metal chairs with wooden sheets

384
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,040
Speaker 2: like an old steel shir shruggling out and he whacked

385
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,960
Speaker 2: this this guy with the bandanner right across the chest.

386
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,200
Speaker 2: His claps it's for the guys on him and he

387
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,159
Speaker 2: starts stabbing him. But it's like and it was like

388
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,200
Speaker 2: it wasn't like it was like cold and calculated and

389
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,200
Speaker 2: there with death shots and he was targeting like his lunch,

390
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,359
Speaker 2: his neck, you know, they were going in very deep

391
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,840
Speaker 2: and he could the inhumans that will come up from

392
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:23,040
Speaker 2: this the bows of this man's game. This was done.

393
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:24,719
Speaker 2: It was like it was it was, it was had

394
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Speaker 2: a flying it was wow.

395
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Speaker 1: It was a.

396
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,639
Speaker 2: Frightening I all have to do with today. I was

397
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,200
Speaker 2: just locked in and the crowd starts as a form

398
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,960
Speaker 2: and it was late about forty to fifty people, even

399
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 2: arm arm and the new roof tired the science to

400
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:45,800
Speaker 2: understand what they was shoting. That was Shane, kill him,

401
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 2: kill him, killing the interesting, encourageing him and you know,

402
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:54,359
Speaker 2: he was just stopping the wistful blue everyone of the

403
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 2: space and his boss was left in a pool of blows.

404
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 2: And I'm saying Mary and passing felt guilty for not intervening.

405
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 2: But at the same time of the databeat line and

406
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:10,400
Speaker 2: I replayed that moment vividly in my mind every night

407
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 2: while it was in Michelle and in Bangkok, I couldn't

408
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 2: sleep with Ketley vision repeating. They show motion that was

409
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 2: quite like you always yeah, you didn't shock and everything

410
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 2: show motion like valuable life was and how they devalue

411
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 2: because the guy who got you know, Core for stabbing

412
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 2: this kid and killing and we ended up getting four

413
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:38,360
Speaker 2: years for the Yeah, I think that was the maximum

414
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 2: that could give, you know, made.

415
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 1: Vision different, different world. There was another with the gangs

416
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:54,200
Speaker 1: in there. I read with the samurais infected.

417
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had them. They were like they had ahead

418
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 2: of the Yeah, although they would time. I never why

419
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 2: they called them shemage.

420
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 1: So what was there again? They are hi very infected

421
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 1: and would threaten people with syringes and.

422
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were injecting their shells with would make shifted

423
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 2: engines made out of barerel. Shame they can improvised a

424
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 2: very clever since the main line of those who were

425
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 2: doing what they could, they were like they were covered

426
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 2: in tattoos from heads to top. But they were very

427
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,959
Speaker 2: very late. Guinny you romnsic case. And you know there

428
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 2: were roads at the hospital once a weeks to pay

429
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 2: for pace ivy medication. You know, I remember they getting

430
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 2: in debt with them over over drugs over ahead of

431
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:42,359
Speaker 2: them edything again usual couldn't stop, you know, it was

432
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 2: they were just in his shape. You know, they pulled

433
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 2: us a shringe full of blood, but were really a

434
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 2: bit of floats off everything, pay the chests, pulling home

435
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 2: drums out for the having me with rape one violent

436
00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,880
Speaker 2: physical abuse and it was just they was just kind

437
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 2: of it. That's very fright. It got to a point

438
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,719
Speaker 2: better force. I'm going to tell you I really am.

439
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 2: I was getting to a point of turtle of shepts

440
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: in this Perasian beer. I didn't think of there ghettos alive. Yeah,

441
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 2: that's where I was at one point.

442
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,400
Speaker 1: I don't think it's some reasonable belie describing the environment

443
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,640
Speaker 1: you were in. That's yeah, very ununderstandable. And I said

444
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 1: at the start, say it throughout. I think the human

445
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 1: spirit's amazing because the situation you found in mate, you

446
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,919
Speaker 1: didn't have much going for you. It would have been easier,

447
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 1: the path might assumed easier. Just okay, well if I

448
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: die here, I get some peace, but you you found

449
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,959
Speaker 1: some degree of salvation and purpose getting back into your

450
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: fighting in my tie. What what happened then?

451
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I got into a lot of faith again.

452
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 2: One of the pleasure officers, he was fond of me.

453
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 2: He gave me the suggestion, and I thought, okay, just

454
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 2: total by the weather spoke to you know, the box

455
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 2: and the gi. Yeah, he kind of refused me, and

456
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 2: see gave him he she get it you again. He

457
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 2: let me in. I got a pair of mates, started

458
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,640
Speaker 2: it in the back. You know, when I went every

459
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: day and on a davy basis. She started as a

460
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 2: feeling every stronger than this city. I was laughing a

461
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 2: bit more with me and Durance, and you know, and

462
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 2: then the starts to speak to them. The starts to

463
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 2: speak to me, and I became really friendly with them.

464
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 2: He starts to talking about the theentire New Year and

465
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 2: where they get involved in, you know, moveside competition with

466
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 2: the best of the best in their prison. And I said, yeah,

467
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 2: go on. He moved me as a a shell. But

468
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 2: she'd call a home that geeler, which was the sports

469
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,880
Speaker 2: and it sounds very very good. You're only sports shell.

470
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 2: That's okay, you get better, Tod. There's lesson in mats

471
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 2: in there. There's a bit of cammaraderie, ship and a

472
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 2: bit of units. He colectively. I felt a little that

473
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 2: taste uh rol moves in. Unless started to become a

474
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 2: little bit better. You know, I was eating well and

475
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 2: I was on a good relationship basis with the rest

476
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 2: of these size do you say boxers. It was just

477
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 2: an incredible feeling. It was like the season and the

478
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 2: applause and the chaptains had gone left somebody, Yeah, I

479
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 2: can understand. Yeah, they had this choicely moments as belonging, not.

480
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: Just belonging to you, you get some respect back about yourself.

481
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: I would imagine the whole whole thing an environment that

482
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: you feel comfortable in and you're respected for the effort

483
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: that you put in, if it's in the boxing gym

484
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: like that. But yeah, it's it's incredible that what you've

485
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: been through and you can look back at this and

486
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 1: and and talk about how did it get to the

487
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: point where it was the prisoner transfer when you went

488
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: back to the UK prison you spent three years in

489
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: entire prisons roughly?

490
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 2: Was that the Yeah, that's they're pretty easy. I mean,

491
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 2: it's not a hell of a long time. You know,

492
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 2: if you look at.

493
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: From where I'm sitting in a way you described it,

494
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 1: it's a long fucking three years.

495
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 2: You know, I think I'm read for a way that way.

496
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: You know, a year in a Thai prison compare to

497
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 2: ten years in the in the US. Tennant sensity. Yeah,

498
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 2: you can look at like because it was that Austin

499
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 2: and it was that bad. It was run by inmates,

500
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 2: the pigeons. It was quite volatile and violence every day.

501
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 2: It was like a fight, you know what I mean.

502
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, you survived that. To get through the dy and

503
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: survive is an achievement.

504
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 2: I'd wake open the day who knows Regardian It was

505
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 2: a hypnotic beat travel right the prision and it was inmates,

506
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 2: the Buddists praying bace. After that, he did, you know

507
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 2: that the Fajar is when we called the player, and

508
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,959
Speaker 2: so you did these that the Muslims praying, and then

509
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 2: the Buddhist praying and people are praying, you know, and

510
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 2: then the doors opening, you know, leads into this and

511
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 2: to the gates of hell, you know, where there's like

512
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 2: market stores and people living on Lately, he'd say on

513
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 2: the top of.

514
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm really interested in the fact that I didn't

515
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: realize that was the basis of the name of the

516
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 1: movie in the book. But that makes a lot of sense,

517
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: and you've created that image very well. I can imagine

518
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: it waking up to that type.

519
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 2: Of just wait, they've just beached the wake up. They'll

520
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 2: slowly be coming through the windows. And it was just

521
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 2: before the all or the fourth place. Every morning it

522
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 2: waked me up in the place. In the beginning, it

523
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 2: was annoying, but then it became shows that they comfort

524
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 2: and then it go. I was unlitially what had happened

525
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 2: into the place system, but yeah, the pasted the ace.

526
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: It was after three years, you know, the embassy were

527
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 2: coming up on a regular basis. You know, it eventually came,

528
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 2: but it was a bit of a It was a

529
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 2: bit of a tough time. It was a cheap out

530
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 2: of ten in March two and ten and Bangkok at

531
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 2: the time was on fire. People were shutting brain I

532
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 2: remember that.

533
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was like there.

534
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 2: Was like a political party, the Red, the Red, the

535
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 2: Yellows or something then so people were shotting fire as

536
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 2: the buildings do. A block in the airport. Bangkok was

537
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,959
Speaker 2: your upthrow Tyland was It was a mess. I had

538
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 2: this twice, a date that had been given to me,

539
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 2: and it was I think it was the twenty twenty

540
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 2: seven to short of mark. That day came and of

541
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: being excited to go, and and it got canceled because

542
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 2: of the airport was surrounded by a political mession protest

543
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 2: protesters in the and and the I fell and I

544
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 2: thought that's it, sending me back. But then a couple

545
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: of days later, without any notice, I was called so

546
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 2: we called up his sell and taken to reception and

547
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 2: putting this quite. I'm come from like this grimy, deady

548
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 2: environments into the christ Gleaming room with a big oval

549
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 2: table with these supersishisial officers shipping on both sides, the

550
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 2: Prevision Governor and May and a few of the Vision

551
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 2: or forties sit in there.

552
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: Your senses must be like this is this is crazy

553
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: because it was just.

554
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 2: Cheering of me. It was it was it was the

555
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: handing over to the British policies. It was just jello

556
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 2: of me. So you know they make a big show

557
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 2: and sad like passing your onto to the British. The

558
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 2: fabrics and you know I was taken from one to immigration,

559
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 2: stayed in there five Chike showers and Sony flight with you.

560
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 2: And it was midnight and I was taken to the

561
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: airport by these che personal officers and you know I

562
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: was handcuffed and they bought meal mass ls, you know,

563
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 2: the quite sorry for asking me questions. Yeah, they've got

564
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 2: a plane going on the plane as well that Jamie

565
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 2: back to the UK. And you know it was freezing

566
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 2: cold when they got off in March. The fatty face

567
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 2: two times in a ten and then I was sound

568
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 2: said was treason you know, I was another get again,

569
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 2: another the stocks of the system of culture shot pay

570
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 2: them a lot of things.

571
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: Master look felt like luxury over themgand compared to what

572
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: you come from. But I also imagine to a degree

573
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: you're in the mindset that you're still backing in Thailand.

574
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 2: So yeah, have a both back and tie, you know.

575
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 2: And I was very shrub mission. Yes, you know, because

576
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 2: you've been beaaten into me or drunned into me in Thailand,

577
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 2: you know, because you're very you know, you had to

578
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 2: really like you couldn't be above the patent offices. You

579
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 2: have to lower yourselves, you know, you have to yeah,

580
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 2: bounce down and you know everything was shipping on your

581
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 2: knees and you slept on a wall. So when I

582
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 2: went into the shelf in the UK and there was

583
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: a massage on a bed, I couldn't cope place to

584
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 2: sleep on the floor, and I put the matter on

585
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 2: the floor. I was sleeping on the floor. I was

586
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 2: it was seizing cold so old ones of the pipes.

587
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 2: It was, you know, it was cooling off the shell.

588
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 2: And I was speaking time half English and calling everyone's

589
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 2: Shane and it was just Bob. And then he got

590
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 2: like the couseuling it. Who speaks to me? You know,

591
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 2: he wasn't weird. I carded to be fair, you know,

592
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 2: I mean he was asking me chilly questions and that's all.

593
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 2: I was just kind of to a tap. That's that

594
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 2: kind of culture and that environment was it was a

595
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 2: difficult process.

596
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: You know.

597
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 2: I was listening to the people complaining of the chips

598
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 2: and that's shipping amaze. As you just see what I've

599
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 2: been eating, right, I've had painting heads stop still with

600
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 2: the weak on it and an eyeball and stinking you

601
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 2: know what. That that's the kind of thing with that meeting,

602
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 2: and you're complaining about the chips here and the chiffing.

603
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 2: I don't like the fish might now made Yeah, apend

604
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 2: stating months so I don't see usually montioned total.

605
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: Was there you once you were released? You where did

606
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: you write the book? Did you write the book when

607
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: you were in prison or when you released from prison?

608
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 2: Yea fast was writing the book when I was in Thailand.

609
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 2: So astu factual information because afford the tear, you know,

610
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 2: and writes it down. I'll document it so you have

611
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 2: little notes. And then kind of it came to suation

612
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 2: when I got to world. Later, I knew what I

613
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 2: was writing. You know, it was memory, it was it

614
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 2: was there, It was physically in mad environments and I've

615
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 2: witnessed the show, so I write it down and it

616
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 2: was fact. So it became a you know, chronologic female.

617
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 2: I said, introduce your shelf and talk about me your

618
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 2: back short and you know where that led the count

619
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 2: to beauty factors and me behavior and you know what

620
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 2: changed our final initiating situation is it?

621
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: You know you find that find that cathartic like going

622
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: through that telling the story.

623
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 2: That's pretty much have ward. It was any healing because

624
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 2: there was speaking that people are both as well. So

625
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 2: it was a vision of telling them my story. They

626
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 2: look on me alas with shock or he couldn't intensively,

627
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 2: he couldn't release what you've seen this, you've seen she

628
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 2: wanted to have them shot on the chest and you

629
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 2: were just it was normal, y. Yeah, you know you've

630
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 2: seen someone, you know, taking them shoves off this and

631
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 2: you've seen people and they were looking at me a

632
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 2: bit strange and I thought, hell, I can't even name

633
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 2: self on the shorty without them bow. Yeah, that experience.

634
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: I wrote it down. It was very it was very

635
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 2: healing the process where he said.

636
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: With the book, you've you've got it published. Then when

637
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: did the film start to take off? When did people

638
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: get interested in turning into a movie.

639
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 2: So that was probably a boss I was feeling into

640
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 2: the book was publish. You know. I went about silently

641
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 2: shows to get a documentary or show him because it

642
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 2: was it was You got to remember it was. It

643
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 2: was before the podcasts and take off, you know what

644
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:14,439
Speaker 2: I mean. It was in two thousand and eleven, twenty eleven,

645
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 2: should Out the twelve of the book was published. Shootout

646
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 2: the twelve in this Lee and not was really online

647
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 2: as much as it is today. Yeah. Sure, I was

648
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 2: shunting the busy. I remember walking down of the street

649
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 2: called Huxley has seen a little shine seeing hurricane film

650
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 2: ship the bid I walked in and refused to see

651
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 2: me as an officiate manager. Yea, the share don't come

652
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 2: back and kept coming back. They kept mess In the

653
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 2: end they thay, can you leave your manuscript on your

654
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 2: book and it's okay. I left it with its twelve

655
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 2: months later that he got in such in me like

656
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 2: we were delighted, we want to make this into a movie,

657
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 2: Like they invite you in to have a chat about it,

658
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 2: and that's when they I went in and I was thinking,

659
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 2: you know, she's been a little a little homemade basically

660
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 2: movie or something more or budget low budget. You know,

661
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 2: wasn't it the best in the game. You know, a

662
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 2: great director to be involved, the script writer, you know,

663
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 2: and I'm up and coming actor from from from the

664
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 2: UK to be you know, playing the role of Michelle.

665
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: It was very exciting giving to know you in this

666
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: check now he now nowed you to that actor in

667
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: the movie The Painkillers.

668
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: I have, Jimmy, you don't have in infamily and told

669
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 2: you do tramadol for three, that's free for you. But Jimmy,

670
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 2: it's not three. I've just seen you give it to

671
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 2: five people in a row.

672
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: Need to pay.

673
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 2: No, No, I've got no money. I've got no money.

674
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:42,879
Speaker 2: I've been told it's free.

675
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: You have to song for me.

676
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 2: I don't have have no cigarettes. I've got no I've

677
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 2: got nothing. But this is all not right.

678
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: Give me.

679
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 2: There's a lot of time with that act as you'll

680
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: call it. Became really friendly with and still preens with

681
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: him today. He was still in contact. Yeah, he understands the.

682
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: Very complex Yeah, that's that's what came across Billy, That's

683
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: what came across in the film and chatting with you

684
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: now like it's there was the zanga, there's the sadness,

685
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: there's all the emotions here. He saw the capture that

686
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: you could relate to him the way that he portrayed

687
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 1: you in the in the movie.

688
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was very I was very impressed with that.

689
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 2: We proceeded Michelson. I believe the time that he spent

690
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 2: with me in the the method after he did was

691
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 2: was it was spots on Yeah.

692
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, he nailed it. So that was it was

693
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: feature at Cannes Film Festival. So yeah, we're talking that

694
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: was It was a big deal. It wasn't the local

695
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: TV station making the movie.

696
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 2: I was a center. They put on the biggest Gentlemans

697
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 2: in Europe. There was a cars film Festival of the

698
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 2: thing was that sticks to your anual events. Filch each

699
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 2: wudd and was filing first of all the time and

700
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 2: there was just incredible red carpet. I will say some

701
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 2: of the actors from the movie with the ho call

702
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 2: me shelf the director and it was just powerful, you know,

703
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 2: like at the end I was watching it and I'll

704
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 2: be there, and I was like changing watching it and

705
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 2: on people are going to judge station.

706
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: Was like.

707
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 2: Like, this is what I told him. You know it's

708
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 2: gonna like you. And that was there was own waste CITs.

709
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: But at the end of the movie there was a

710
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 2: rapture of applause that just went over for eight minutes.

711
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 2: It was a fan of ovation and cheese. And I

712
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 2: was like, what's going on here? And I was both

713
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 2: at the the American Financid who was standing next with

714
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 2: James Seamish, and I said that sepping here, I said,

715
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 2: you know, and he liked it anyway. He said, hey, Billy,

716
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 2: he said, we said we're in France. He's dead. And

717
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 2: now I'll tell you this, he said, the wrench of

718
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 2: the ways and examiners. Even if you hear they love

719
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 2: this movie, he said, you know, if they were if

720
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 2: you did LA, they didn't still care whether you do

721
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,879
Speaker 2: or not. He said that you know you've done really well.

722
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 2: And you know the next day in the reports and

723
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,439
Speaker 2: then in all the moviesine articles online, it was LA shame.

724
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 2: It was a great suck death. It was yesicized, as

725
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 2: was having siticized as a as a good cult movie.

726
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: So I was I would glad that. I was grateful

727
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 2: that it was quite hockey.

728
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: Look, and so much was happening in your life after that,

729
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: like what you had had been through to get to

730
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,439
Speaker 1: that point, and yeah, the nature of your story, people

731
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: would have been wanting to meet you. You would have

732
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: been the man in the moment in that environment, and

733
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 1: that can be daunting and overwhelming. And I'm sure with

734
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: all the all the stuff that you carry carry from

735
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: your past, it must have been confronting for you in

736
00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:58,399
Speaker 1: a way as well.

737
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 2: It was because I would carrying out impostership. I didn't

738
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 2: believe it belongs in the kind of environments, you know.

739
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 2: I was thinking, Look, I'm just a basy, mixed up kid,

740
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 2: I'm a few bits. I've just had the sex variance,

741
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 2: and you know, they've written a bad around all these

742
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 2: big issers. They're all struck cheeseos. I don't really, you know,

743
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 2: feel like I fit in with these type of people,

744
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: you know. And I just rolled with it. And then

745
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 2: it was just very difficult to chet late all the affirmation.

746
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 2: At the time, no one as well that like, look

747
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 2: was this day's over, It'll be another day for someone else.

748
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 2: I knew that's just kind of just rolled with it,

749
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 2: and it was, Yeah, it was. It was very an

750
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 2: exciting moment. I was proud of the achievements, you know,

751
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 2: and I didn't want to live in all that shame

752
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 2: of me past.

753
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, have you ever wondered what goes on behind

754
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: the headlines of a gang more or shooting, then you

755
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: need to listen to crim City joined crime reporters Mark

756
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: Murray and Josh Hemrahane as I uncovered the details of

757
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,240
Speaker 1: crimes I'm folding on Sydney Straight and share the stories

758
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 1: that don't make the papers. The latest season of crim

759
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: City is out now. Listen early and ad free on

760
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 1: Crime x plus on Apple Podcast Today. I think when

761
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: you tell the story and you're honest, that yeah, if

762
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: you hold shame, but if you're saying, well, this is

763
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: who I am. You've put it in a book, it's

764
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 1: played out in the film. You've got nothing to hide there,

765
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: this is who I am. Take So I think there

766
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: must have been that sort of thought going through your mind.

767
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like he Honestly, the your honesty is

768
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 2: more sack than saying that. They pretend that you've got

769
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: a big ego and you're not dead, and you know,

770
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: you know usually usually look, you know, I was a

771
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 2: diagonal sold them.

772
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: I was.

773
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 2: I was a proper mesh. I had an EmPATH on

774
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: everyone's life. Negatively, you know, I wasn't really a valuable

775
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 2: member of the community. You know, I'm sure what was

776
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 2: your face everywhere mentioned all the beautiful last if you

777
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 2: know what I mean. But now come like full share,

778
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 2: you know, I like you shad at the beginning and

779
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 2: this is what's imposed. And I spoke about this today,

780
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 2: which is quite states. You know what Becausin who said,

781
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 2: he said to me, he said, you know what, Bill,

782
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 2: He's just you know, why did you think you're Yeah,

783
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 2: I said, really Knowsted, you've been through that many nature

784
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 2: for staining, So so she's ya, you know, collisions, your stabbings,

785
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 2: you've been stabbed, you're being shot at. You know, you've

786
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 2: had you you know, you've been molds, You've been through

787
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 2: a lot. Right, So why said someone's got to be

788
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 2: looking after someone's got to be watching over you, because

789
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 2: I'm kind of like get about all that stuff. But

790
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 2: I believe there's some kind of incidental I believe in

791
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 2: me for a reason. I don't know whether what that

792
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 2: is this, but now you know, I know what to

793
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 2: do today is Yeah, it's be that role model for people.

794
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 2: Be that Paton who can nature others, you know people,

795
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 2: be that patient you going off for guidance and say

796
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 2: look there's a way out there, you know, being in

797
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 2: for almost seven years. No, I maintain accidents that don't

798
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 2: drink it'll slogan ull usual booze there, no me late.

799
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 2: Today is a far acay from what it was. I'm

800
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 2: sold if I never have kids who got cheap, bunching,

801
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 2: little baby blous. Now you've got a lovely family. This

802
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 2: is you know, I've never believed in a million years

803
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 2: above you know. So it's just it's just just it's

804
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,399
Speaker 2: like it's like play yet it thinks someone else's live.

805
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 2: I'd never believe that was my life. That kid in

806
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 2: that film kept making show any mistakes, so he had

807
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 2: that many chances of were thinking I was looking for Michelle.

808
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: It's funny you should say that like your story. Yeah,

809
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 1: you've had your setbacks. You step forward, you look like

810
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: you've made it, you fall back down. I sit there

811
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: and watch it. When I was reading your books or

812
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: watching the movie, I'm thinking, no, don't get in in

813
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: this path, don't do that, like and you're it's funny

814
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,479
Speaker 1: you're sitting there thinking the same thing. Come on, Billy,

815
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: you can do this.

816
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 2: But Billy, whenever it's I was thinking, what's going on?

817
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 2: You've got that Maody's chances. Yeah, it was like I

818
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 2: was left the spoons and all of them shelves and

819
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 2: look at all loves Bobby. But it was yeah, you know,

820
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 2: you'd have to fall a few times before your stones.

821
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: Up on most definitely, and you've got to. But you know,

822
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: we talk redemption, and I really like pushing that in

823
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 1: on this this show redemption because you get people. I've

824
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: seen people, we've all been there. You're at this low point,

825
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: you think I'm never going to turn this around, and

826
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 1: then we see a story like like yours, and you know, look,

827
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: you got you've got two kids, you're enjoying life. You've

828
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 1: lived a life, but you're still here. So I think

829
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,479
Speaker 1: there's some motivation and inspiration for people here in your story.

830
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: And I think that's why it certainly resonated with me.

831
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, ship, who is this blake? How how has

832
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: he survived?

833
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 2: Like?

834
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: How did where's that human spirit come from?

835
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 2: And because I was what My thing was I was

836
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 2: daying all.

837
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: I forgot your cancer story. Yeah, that's another number one.

838
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,240
Speaker 1: When did you get diagnosed with cancer?

839
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 2: Two times of the ship?

840
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: Right? Okay, so you're going through the whole prison experience

841
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: and then you got hit with that. Yeah.

842
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 2: So that being through that experience and come out at

843
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 2: this glorious book that addressed that became a movie that

844
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 2: I'm on the shed and I guess I gets it

845
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 2: with cancer and filling to that was that was like

846
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 2: and Rod the handling me life me. I was diavolged

847
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 2: with cancer after passed away from cancer, and I had

848
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: to you know, he made amends met the last seven

849
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:32,879
Speaker 2: years of his life.

850
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: You know that's good.

851
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 2: He never really shed much. But you know, at the

852
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 2: end of his life, you know, he said he loved me,

853
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 2: and that was I believe. And then I had this

854
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 2: out of the chept and surround you know, maybe you

855
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 2: know he had his whole little battles with his life,

856
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 2: and you know, we never really shared much of bout it,

857
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 2: so I can't I add that to giveness, which you

858
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 2: can't of give me a better piece. But then I

859
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 2: got diagnosed with it, and you know, I ended up

860
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 2: with Stacey. Cancer brought me ways, you know, lot hay.

861
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,879
Speaker 2: Everything a photag is the end and you know kind

862
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 2: of manage to get through it, you know. So that

863
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 2: was a load of handling, you know what. And then

864
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 2: they share the good back kids and then that's w

865
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 2: share them with these tree little boys now and they

866
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,240
Speaker 2: be careful what you wish for greatly.

867
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 1: How how old about it?

868
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 2: Well one was for ones alet.

869
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: Oh jeez, Billy, and here I am keeping you up

870
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: to no wonder you're worried, keeping you up to midnight

871
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: to do the podcast. I'm sorry. I apologize.

872
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 2: I've got a couple of step kids as well. They

873
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 2: were quite a bit old. You know, things things are okay,

874
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 2: and you know, away along Tiddy. You know, an organization

875
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 2: was just called Weapons Down, which we deal with interventions

876
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 2: with young kids, and you know, you know gang culture,

877
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 2: man county lines, you know, vision and consequences, mental health, addiction.

878
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 2: I kind of covered all aspects of I've got the experience.

879
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: Well you got the life experience, and and people like you,

880
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: people that kids if they're heating in the wrong direction,

881
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 1: listen to But what was the name of the organization?

882
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: Weapons Day and fists Up?

883
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 2: Weapons down.

884
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 1: I like it.

885
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 2: I like it.

886
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 1: That's because yeah, we've got a bit of a problem

887
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 1: over here in Australia. And I know it's you've probably

888
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: got the same thing in the UK, but with weapons

889
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: and knives and and and all that that it's something

890
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: that really try to see people away.

891
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 2: And I'm under no illusion that we're not going to

892
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 2: reach everyone, it's all. And I mean we can only

893
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 2: I mean if he reach a few people, then that's

894
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 2: there's a ribble of effect. And I know the ribble

895
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 2: effect because of my ripple effect. I had the shape

896
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 2: of people around me, don't really struggling and shuffled them.

897
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: You know.

898
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 2: Now they're phoning me up and asking me for help

899
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 2: me mum, you know, she she she brings me up

900
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 2: for guidance to report. And you know that was never

901
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 2: on the cards. It was always just all getting shotting

902
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 2: with feet, keep aways. You know, you're the shoulders and

903
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 2: the banish. And now it's it's not like that. What

904
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 2: sholl ever, you know, it's quite different difference. Have got

905
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 2: a blood to do these as show that was a

906
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 2: bit of a struggle growing roughly looking after him as well,

907
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,879
Speaker 2: that he's missed him. But now he's like my little rock.

908
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 2: And you know, I've spent a lot of time with

909
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 2: him because he had a lot of guilt over It's

910
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 2: like dismissing him as a young kid. Yeah, you know,

911
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 2: he wasn't physically and he can't. He was medley, but

912
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 2: he couldn't really rebilage or understand or he wasn't aware.

913
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 2: And he's forty five now and he you know, he's

914
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,760
Speaker 2: got you know, he's got his he's got his accomplishes,

915
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 2: but he's just a lovable guy that you know, was

916
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 2: very popular now in Liverpool because I put him on

917
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 2: the platform. I don't shy away from the autism side

918
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 2: of things, and I didn't realize how his spying it

919
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,240
Speaker 2: was for others to go, Okay, I've got a family member.

920
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 2: You know. I was always worrying that, you know, that

921
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 2: he wouldn't be able to trow and he wouldn't be

922
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 2: able to be a productive member of society. Now by

923
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 2: the way, you know in these you know he waited testing.

924
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 2: That's so it shouldn't embarrass.

925
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: Stuff like that. And you can make a difference and

926
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, you talked about the posta syndrome and

927
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,399
Speaker 1: you know, hanging on to the guilt that you weren't

928
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: good for society. But mate, I got to say, sitting

929
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: here and listening to your story and just getting a

930
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 1: sense of who you are, you're putting you're putting more

931
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: good than the bad that you you created. So you

932
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: balance the ledger I reckon you can, Yeah, give yourself

933
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 1: a bit of leeway. We all make mistakes, That's how

934
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: we come from.

935
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I speaks to Michel Coss. You know what

936
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 2: you acknowledge that the fact that you're not outdare committing crime.

937
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 2: Still you're not out there, you're not telling your story,

938
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 2: but they living a living a bad life, you know

939
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 2: what I mean. But I'm sure that people on these

940
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 2: platforms that would show the belt made would still out

941
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 2: David in Segacy. You know, I don't done that, and

942
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,320
Speaker 2: I know for the fact that there's people like that,

943
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 2: and I don't want to be one of those those

944
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 2: people who you haven't got the insangy. You know, I

945
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 2: won't be inside the out size But she is what

946
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 2: I do because I'm in a public you know, arena,

947
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 2: and I don't want to be sheen.

948
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: To be doing no and with that comes the responsibility.

949
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 1: But it looks like you're reading to it.

950
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 2: Ye, it gives you the responsibility of the comfortability.

951
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 1: All right, well, look, I think we might wrap it

952
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: up here. Billy, I really really enjoyed, enjoyed the chat,

953
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: and it's something I say to you. I've burnt a

954
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 1: fan of you because of your story from the moment

955
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 1: I saw the movie, and I'm really excited I've got

956
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: the opportunity to sit down and have it have a

957
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 1: chat with you. So all the best for you for

958
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: the future. And yeah, thanks for coming on I Catch Killers.

959
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 2: Thank you.

960
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: Well. I got to say I love my job hosting

961
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,800
Speaker 1: I Catch Killers podcast because I've been fascinated with Billy's

962
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 1: story ever since I watched his movie. The fact that

963
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 1: what he survived and how he turned his life around

964
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: is just amazing, and I think it's a real privilege

965
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: for me to be able to sit down and have

966
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 1: a chat with him. And I gotta say I like

967
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 1: the bloke. He's very impressive and testament to the human

968
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 1: spirit that he came through what he came through, and

969
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: I just think he's a good Felow