1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: It is eleven past ten on FIVEBA the bicycle Bandit 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: was sentenced yesterday kim Alan Parson and the judge sentencing 3 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: him to thirty five years with a non parole period 4 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: of twenty eight and they're twenty eight years that he 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:22,479 Speaker 1: is unlikely to see because Parsons will have access to 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: voluntary assisted dying. And he was in the Ramann Centers 7 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: at late yesterday seventy three years pleading guilty to ten 8 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: counts of arm robbery one count of attempted arm robbery 9 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 1: to firearms offenses over what was a ten year spree 10 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: of rubbing banks in the Adelaide Hills regional sort of 11 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: areas or semi regional, mostly with the bikers the getaway 12 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: vehicle or several bikes. However, victims aren't happy with this, 13 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: saying well what about us, one person that you know 14 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: police have got what they wanted and got on them 15 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: for never giving up the fight, to getting up a 16 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: charge and getting an arrest, saying there is some closure. 17 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: The victims are still victims. The banks get the money back, 18 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: the family get to keep all their assets, and he 19 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: gets to take his life under selfish terms. Yet we 20 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,839 Speaker 1: the victims and our families get to continue to deal 21 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: with his cowardly actions every day. Victims of this crime 22 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: are again the losers today. They were comments made outside 23 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: court after Parsons was sentenced yesterday. Victim's advocate Michael O'Connell 24 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 1: is on the line regarding where people stand. I suppose 25 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: with this, and I suppose, Michael, good morning, thank you 26 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: for your time. It's just a case of unfortunately, suck 27 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: it up. 28 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 2: Well, that's certainly the perspective that many of the victims have, 29 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 2: quite rightly. Well, what this coast does is demonstrates quite vividly, 30 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: quite clearly, that there is a difference between victims having 31 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 2: access to the mechanisms of our justice system. So, in 32 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 2: this case, the opportunity to for instance, make their victim 33 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 2: impact statement, to see the offendervely guilty, to see him 34 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 2: be sentenced, but that doesn't necessarily represent access to justice 35 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 2: for many of these people that have been exposed to 36 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 2: trauma that has affected their entire lives. And now this 37 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: man gets an opportunity not only to dictate the terms 38 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: under which he pledged guilty, under which the justice system 39 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 2: operated in terms of timeliness, but also now gets an 40 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 2: opportunity to dictate to continue to maintain control to the 41 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 2: extent of these victims' lives by taking his own life 42 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 2: and therefore not completing his sentence. 43 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: When the news broke that he had access to voluntary 44 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: assisted dying a few weeks ago. To me, that's kind 45 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: of an ethical dilemma, isn't it, Because should he have 46 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: access to that, he is entitled to it under the law. 47 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: So that's the end of that debate. But it's I mean, 48 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: it's almost unfair if you're a victim to see somebody 49 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: go through this in this way and then essentially get 50 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: out of the sentence. 51 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: Well, a couple of pointers. The first is that while 52 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 2: there are many common reactions that victims have to or 53 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 2: people have to be becoming victims of crime, it is 54 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 2: actually quite a unique experience for each victim. And so 55 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: while some victims will find this extremely difficult to accept 56 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 2: the buscal bandit is going to be allowed to take 57 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 2: his own life, there will be others who will say, well, 58 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 2: in natural fact, now he's been sentenced, etc. We do 59 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: have some level of justice, so we have to be 60 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 2: a little bit careful about how we balance our debate. 61 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 2: But my humble view is that people who are going 62 00:03:55,800 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: through the justice system, who have been suspect and then 63 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 2: ultimately found guilty of committing serious crimes or not have 64 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 2: access to voluntarissisted dying. I think what it does is 65 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 2: distracts or distracts from the importance of that as a 66 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 2: remedy for good law abiding citizens who are so tragically 67 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 2: at the point in their lives where they find it 68 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 2: necessary to take it. It shouldn't be a means for 69 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 2: which people escape the justice system. 70 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that's it, And there seems to be a 71 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: perception of that in this case for those victims. Doesn't 72 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: there that that's exactly what he's doing, escaping the justice system. 73 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 2: Well, that's right, and it's unfortunate because the one of 74 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 2: the risks is that will call in to question the 75 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 2: validity of what is quite a legitimate way of dealing 76 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 2: with the trauma that exists when someone is suffering from 77 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 2: a terminal illness. But I can't emphasize this enough. Victims 78 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 2: have a fundamental right to access the mechanisms of justice, 79 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 2: and ultimately they ought to have a fundamental right to 80 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 2: access to justice. And if that means we have to 81 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 2: change the laws and volunteer assist they're dying to ensure 82 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 2: that criminals are held not only responsible but also to 83 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: account through appropriate center thing, then in my view, we 84 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: should be looking at changing the law. 85 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, where would these victims have received compensation back in 86 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: the day. Are they entitled to it now that he's 87 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: been sentenced and has pleaded guilty. How does the system 88 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:33,239 Speaker 1: work in their case? 89 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: Well, if you're a victim of a violent crime, So 90 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 2: several decades ago we changed the Parliament changed their law. 91 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 2: It used to be any victim of crime, but now 92 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 2: it's only victims of violent crime are entitled to state 93 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 2: funded compensation. And the maximum that the president's entitled to 94 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 2: is determined by the date of the offense. So some 95 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 2: of the people who were victims of crime a decade 96 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 2: or fifteen or so years ago would have been entitled 97 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,679 Speaker 2: to a maximum of up to fifty thousand dollars, whereas 98 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 2: some of the more recent victims may have been entitled 99 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 2: to a maximum of up to one hundred thousand dollars. 100 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 2: And so there isn't an equity in the system. But 101 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 2: it is necessary for a victim to prove the offense 102 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 2: happens beyond a reasonable doubt. So in these cases, it's 103 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 2: quite obvious that there was an armed robbery and that 104 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 2: there's video to back it up, so they may have 105 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 2: had access and they may have lodged their claim. If 106 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 2: they haven't done so, then I would encourage them to 107 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 2: get some legal advice, and that's free for victims of 108 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 2: crime for a number of lawthorms will do that. The 109 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 2: other impediment, because I don't want to raise people's expectations unnecessary, 110 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 2: is that if the crime happened in the workplace, then 111 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 2: the person has to have exhausted all of the avenues 112 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 2: that are available through work cover workers' compensation type arrangements. 113 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 2: And it was during I'm sure people mightn't be mentioned, 114 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 2: it was during Michael Atkinson's time as Attorney General that 115 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 2: that became a key issue because people like Derrick mc 116 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 2: manus and some of the other police officers who were 117 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 2: involved in the shooting by Tony Grosser up in the 118 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 2: Baroska were denied compensation and they had to fight an Eventually, 119 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 2: Michael Atkinson said, well, we will pay it for their 120 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 2: emotional psychological harm, but we can't pay it for any 121 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 2: other reason. So I mentioned that because I don't want 122 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 2: to raise people's expectations that would be really unfair given 123 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 2: already these victims are feeling that justice hasn't been done 124 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 2: for them. 125 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's a tough area, isn't it. There's 126 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: so much, so many competing interests involved here, well there 127 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: are and. 128 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 2: Some places around the world in terms of company. So 129 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: now have moved to what they call financial assistance. So 130 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: basically a victim just feels out of form and they 131 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 2: get a mandatory sum of money based on the injury, 132 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 2: and they call it either financial assistance or a recognition payment. 133 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 2: South Australia is persisted with a victim compensation scheme. And 134 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 2: while it has some legal challenges in that scheme, we 135 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 2: do have the highest amount, the maximum of one hundred 136 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 2: thousand dollars of just about every any jurisdiction in Australia 137 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 2: and among any of our neighboring countries. So we asked 138 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 2: a little leader, albeit that it is a very legalistic process. 139 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So this case is now closed, and 140 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: I suppose of anything, that's some relief I imagine to 141 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: victims too, that there is closure to it now. And 142 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: however much time Parsons has left, well, that's I suppose 143 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: up to him, and if he decides to go down 144 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: one course of treatment or the more natural way, it's 145 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 1: going to catch up with him sooner than later. 146 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 2: Well, that's right, and I think the key issue here 147 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 2: is that the legal system is closed, and so that 148 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 2: closes one of the chapters in these people's lives, the 149 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 2: victims lives. But as you've made in your commentary in 150 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 2: the opening, for many of these victims, the pain, the suffering, 151 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 2: the anguish that they have endured for many years will continue, 152 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 2: and so this only brings a sense of relief. It 153 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to recover from those effects. 154 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 2: So ultimately they're still going to live with the legacy 155 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 2: of this man's crimes, despite the fact that he may 156 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 2: terminate his life. 157 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed, Michael, appreciate your insights. Thank you so much 158 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: for your time.