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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Britney Sorders and welcome to Big Business.

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Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Britney Saudis. Let's just leave that in there.

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Speaker 2: You can do the intro welcome back to big business.

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Speaker 3: And today you have landed in one of my bonus

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Speaker 3: episodes calling in sick for work.

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Speaker 2: And feeling guilty about it. We're just getting straight into it.

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Speaker 3: I've had two questions come through my DMS on Big

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Speaker 3: Business podcasts recently.

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Speaker 1: By the way, his producers and here not just some

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Speaker 1: random bloke jumping on the pod.

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Speaker 2: I've just got some random guy in here.

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Speaker 1: I just had a pie.

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Speaker 2: We're a bit silly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're a bit silly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, silly, goofy mood. So I got a couple of

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Speaker 3: questions taking a sick day. When I take one, I

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Speaker 3: feel so anxious. And this is fairly common for some friends.

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Speaker 3: Would be interesting to hear from a boss your perspective,

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Speaker 3: and that had someone asked the exact same question, why

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Speaker 3: do me and my friends feel guilt when I call

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Speaker 3: in sick?

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Speaker 2: This is a weird phenomenon, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever not come in for work at fate

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Speaker 1: because you've been sick?

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Speaker 3: That's a good question because I think the mentality that

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Speaker 3: you have when you are a business owner is I

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Speaker 3: have no time for fucking sick days, and like that's

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Speaker 3: my mentality. I don't think I've like I couldn't tell

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Speaker 3: you the last time I didn't go to work because

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Speaker 3: I was sick, but.

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Speaker 1: Like I could on me two weeks ago.

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Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, that was different. That was for the podcast.

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Speaker 3: That was different, but actually having a sick day of fate,

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Speaker 3: Like I think the last time it would have been

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Speaker 3: when it was in COVID times and I had COVID

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Speaker 3: and I was knocked out for a little bit there.

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Speaker 2: But weirdly enough, I don't know how much of this

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Speaker 2: is a thing.

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Speaker 3: But if you ask any of my staff, they will

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Speaker 3: say Brittany's never sick, and neither is AJ. But I'm like,

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Speaker 3: do we think ourselves out of getting sick because we

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Speaker 3: just know we can't kind of think?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say, like, because I did casual work

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Speaker 1: for like over a decade, I have been so conditioned

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Speaker 1: now to try and push through and just work while

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Speaker 1: I'm sick, because that was the only I lose the

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Speaker 1: money though then I'd lose I wouldn't get paid.

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Speaker 3: I wonder if any of this stems from like childhood

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Speaker 3: and school, like did we learn this? So? Like I

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Speaker 3: know for a fact that everyone feels bad when they

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Speaker 3: call him sick. What's funny is from my perspective of

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Speaker 3: being a boss, if I was to have a day

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Speaker 3: off and not going to work and not talk to anyone,

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Speaker 3: I would feel guilty as the boss. So even when

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Speaker 3: you're a boss that I mean, I'm only speaking from me.

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Speaker 3: We post these videos on TikTok, by the way, like

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Speaker 3: our little podcast videos, and I love how twisted people

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Speaker 3: get my words and think, oh not me, not like

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Speaker 3: I'm only ever speaking from my point of view. I

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Speaker 3: can't speak on behalf of every boss out there. Some

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Speaker 3: bosses might take a sick day and go I don't

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Speaker 3: give a fuck. But for me, if I was to

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Speaker 3: have a sick day, I would feel so guilty, like

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Speaker 3: I'm not there, you know, and I'm not working with everyone.

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Speaker 1: Iwa was just to feel like it was quite an

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Speaker 1: inconvenience for me not to be there. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that means I'm I think I'm the absolute boostnooz oh,

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Speaker 1: Like you feel like.

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Speaker 3: You're letting down the business if you don't go to work.

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Speaker 3: I just wonder where this mentality stems from in the

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Speaker 3: first place, because why do people feel bad when they

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Speaker 3: call in sick and don't go to work for a day.

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Speaker 3: Maybe it's because their boss kind of shuns them for that.

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Speaker 3: Maybe people have come from experience where they're calling in

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Speaker 3: sick and their bosses on the other end saying, well,

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Speaker 3: are you sure like you can't just come in like

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Speaker 3: we really need you kind of thing, or you're letting

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Speaker 3: the team down. Maybe it's been passed down through that

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Speaker 3: through trauma of bosses guilt tripping staff around feeling having

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Speaker 3: sick days.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an interesting thing to discuss when bosses are like, oh,

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Speaker 1: can you not just push through and come in?

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Speaker 2: I would never say that.

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Speaker 1: Because we've just had this new legislation come through that's

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Speaker 1: protecting people's right to disconnect after work and not have

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Speaker 1: to answer call or text from their employers.

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Speaker 2: And not getting in trouble for it, and not.

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Speaker 1: Getting in trouble for it. Yes, should there be another

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Speaker 1: legislation that's protecting people from being pressured to come to

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Speaker 1: go in? Yeah, because that still happens. I hear all

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Speaker 1: the time people are like, Oh, I'm well, but like

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Speaker 1: they really want me to come in and do this shift.

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Speaker 1: You're actually putting your business and your employee is at

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Speaker 1: risk wanting someone who is unwell to come in and shure.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's changed a lot as well since

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Speaker 3: the COVID times. Now, I think we are more conscious

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Speaker 3: of people coming in if they are a little bit sick,

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Speaker 3: or if they just want to come in anyway and

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Speaker 3: they come in and they're like snotty and coughing, like yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think since COVID I've been like go home, like

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Speaker 3: you know, even if like I feel fine, I'm just stuffy.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, go home, like you're actually sick.

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Speaker 1: I think there is a sniffle in the office.

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Speaker 3: Go I don't know why people feel guilty calling in sick,

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Speaker 3: and I would say for any of my staff working

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Speaker 3: for me, I would hope that they wouldn't feel guilty.

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Speaker 3: But I think it's this natural guilt that we feel

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Speaker 3: the same way. I would feel guilty if I had

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Speaker 3: a day off because I've been sick. But I'm telling

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Speaker 3: you how touch Wood, I never get sick. You watch

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Speaker 3: them going to get sick after that, Sanda, I think

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Speaker 3: it just sucks that there are business owners and bosses

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Speaker 3: out there who do shame their team for having a

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Speaker 3: day off, you know, or their employee for having a

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Speaker 3: day off. For example, one of our girls in the

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Speaker 3: office court in six this morning, she messaged me at

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Speaker 3: like six thirty this morning.

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Speaker 2: I just double tapped it. Gave her a little heart,

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Speaker 2: and that's it. Yeah, like there is nothing more than that.

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Speaker 1: It's funny you say that, because I think if one

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Speaker 1: of my bosses just double tapped and liked that I

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Speaker 1: was sick, I'd feel like it was a little bit

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Speaker 1: passive aggressive.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, look, I'm just giving her a little heart.

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Speaker 3: And it was six thirty in the morning, so I

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Speaker 3: don't want to like start up a conversation kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah no, yeah, okay, like mine, things like I'm giving

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Speaker 3: you a heart. That is so fine, Like I'm not

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Speaker 3: kind of friggin' sometimes were right back, and I'm like,

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Speaker 3: no worries at all because.

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Speaker 1: Someone gives you, like just a thumbs up emoji in

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Speaker 1: your life.

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Speaker 2: Wow, I gave her a heart.

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Speaker 3: She also messaged like another person as well, like I'm

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Speaker 3: not the only person. It's because her boss is currently away,

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Speaker 3: so she's messaged me and said wasn't sure if I

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Speaker 3: was supposed to message you kind of thing, but I'm.

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Speaker 2: Always like, don't stress.

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you another thing that I absolutely okay. I'll

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Speaker 3: tell you a pet peeve of mine people apologizing when they.

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Speaker 2: Don't need to.

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Speaker 1: I have actually been trying not to do this. Even

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Speaker 1: in emails now when I send them are used to

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Speaker 1: by apologies, YadA, YadA, YadA. I'm trying. I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: remove that and reframe the way that I'm speaking to

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Speaker 1: someone because I feel like it makes me look more

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Speaker 1: confident in my role. It makes me feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: not an inconvenience.

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Speaker 3: That's one of my pet peeves, and I notice it

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Speaker 3: in staff, for example, if someone is sick and they're like,

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Speaker 3: I'm so sorry, like they're apologizing, and I couldn't care

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Speaker 3: less if someone's having a sick day at all, Like

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Speaker 3: I'll literally just be like, no worries at all, Like

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Speaker 3: you don't have to over explain yourself or.

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Speaker 2: Why you're sick.

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Speaker 3: Like they could literally just say to me, I'm sick

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Speaker 3: today and I'm not coming in that's so fine. I'm

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Speaker 3: not going to be like I need an explanation and

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Speaker 3: you need to tell me why and he's sure you

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Speaker 3: can't come in like never. But I've found that staff

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Speaker 3: as well and just us as humans. We so we

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Speaker 3: apologize for everything, like I'm so sorry to you know,

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Speaker 3: and why are you saying sorry? I remember when am

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Speaker 3: our general manager. She's like off on maternity leave now,

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Speaker 3: but obviously throughout her pregnancy she would have like all

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Speaker 3: these appointments and everything, which, by the way, then someone

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Speaker 3: said to me after we spoke about like us and

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Speaker 3: the way we pay our staff. People are like someone said, like, so,

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Speaker 3: how do you pay maternity leave?

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Speaker 2: Then with maternity leave, I know, people are weird.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Fate pays people maternity leave and super and all

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Speaker 3: the things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you do remember that you sign a full time contract. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you just say differently.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, m obviously was having all these appointments all the time,

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Speaker 3: like during her pregnancy and in the lead up to

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Speaker 3: her going on matt leave, and she would apologize profusely

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Speaker 3: every time, I'm so sorry to be having this appointment again,

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, em, stop fucking apologizing to me. It's

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Speaker 3: actually annoying that you think you have to say sorry instead, like,

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Speaker 3: you know, because they might think I'm getting annoyed by

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Speaker 3: all the appointments when I'm not at all. I'm actually

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Speaker 3: annoyed that you feel like you have to apologize for it. Again,

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Speaker 3: is this coming from bosses in the past that have

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Speaker 3: made her feel guilty for having a day off or

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Speaker 3: going to an appointment or whatever it may be.

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Speaker 2: Where does this all stem from? I think?

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Speaker 1: And I'll give you an example. So I applied for

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Speaker 1: a job last year and in that job description it

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Speaker 1: said could you know how they give you what the

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Speaker 1: key jobs of the role is, and then it also

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Speaker 1: gives you kind of like the extra benefits that kind

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Speaker 1: of come along with a job. It could be like

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Speaker 1: an extra day off every six months or whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: In this particular description it said unlimited mental health days.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, oh my god, that can't be real.

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Speaker 1: And so I asked the guy and he was like, no, no,

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Speaker 1: it's true, Like you can have a mental health day

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Speaker 1: whenever you want and you get paid yep. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, wow, Now I didn't end up getting hired

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Speaker 1: there because they ended up not even having the role

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Speaker 1: existing anymore. Yeah, but I was like, immediately in my mind,

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Speaker 1: I was like, I want to work here because I

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Speaker 1: feel safe. Yes, and I'm not going to feel guilty

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Speaker 1: or like I'm an inconvenience to them if I do

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Speaker 1: need to take a day And especially with mental health

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Speaker 1: in business, I feel like that's something that people feel

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Speaker 1: even more guilty about because it's not something that you

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Speaker 1: can see physically on someone, and it's not something you

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Speaker 1: can be like, oh, you look so unwell. It's a

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Speaker 1: completely different ball game.

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Speaker 2: YEP.

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Speaker 3: I encourage everyone out there to not feel guilty for

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Speaker 3: having a day off, whether it is sickness or if

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Speaker 3: it's you know, something to do with your mental health.

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Speaker 3: And I know it's so like riddled in society that

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Speaker 3: you feel guilty calling in sick and I don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 3: Someone's asking like, why do we feel guilty? I have

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Speaker 3: no idea. It's like in our human nature. I don't

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Speaker 3: know if it comes from when we used to have

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Speaker 3: a day off school and we would feel bad.

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Speaker 1: And it comes from like I mean, because grind cultures

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Speaker 1: out like we're not about grind culture anymore. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think it really comes from it was so grilled into

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Speaker 1: us in school about work, work, work, grind, grind, grind,

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Speaker 1: that's the only way that you're going to be successful.

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Speaker 2: Takes me back attendance days.

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Speaker 3: You know how you get your three monthly report and

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Speaker 3: that we tell you how many days.

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Speaker 2: Your head off like it?

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Speaker 1: Or they gave someone an award for good schools.

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Speaker 2: Where it comes from.

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Speaker 3: But you can take it from me as a boss,

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Speaker 3: and I know I can't speak on behalf of other bosses.

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Speaker 3: But don't feel guilty at all calling in sick. You

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Speaker 3: shouldn't have anxiety around calling in sick at all, Like

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Speaker 3: I don't care if someone's having a sick day. But again,

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Speaker 3: I'm only speaking from me in my company. There might

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Speaker 3: be some bosses out there who treat people horribly if

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Speaker 3: they do call in sick, or make them feel bad

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Speaker 3: about it, or guild trip them to come in. But again,

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Speaker 3: I feel like this podcast is turning into like an

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Speaker 3: advocate for employees' rights.

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Speaker 2: But know your power and rights in a workplace.

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Speaker 3: If you have a boss that is guilt tripping you

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Speaker 3: for calling in sick, do something about it. Go to

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Speaker 3: the HR at your workplace if there is a HR

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Speaker 3: in your workplace, or speak to your boss directly about it.

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Speaker 2: Or get at it yes, or get another job.

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Speaker 3: Because you should not be feeling that way you should

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Speaker 3: not be like profusely apologizing for being sick. You should

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Speaker 3: not be feeling scared to call in sick. You shouldn't

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Speaker 3: be having a sick day at home and feeling bad

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Speaker 3: that you're not at work. And if your boss or

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Speaker 3: whoever is making you feel bad about that, do something

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Speaker 3: about it, like stand up for yourself, and like it

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Speaker 3: fills me with rage Xander, knowing that people are treated

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Speaker 3: poorly in workplaces to.

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Speaker 1: Be quite honest, like if the business is going to

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Speaker 1: fall apart because you'll have your sick day, well then

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Speaker 1: the business.

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Speaker 2: Figure that out. But honestly, stand up for yourselves.

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Speaker 3: Like ever since we've opened up this conversation about this

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Speaker 3: whole new legislation and disconnecting, like it's just open up

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Speaker 3: the floodgates for me. And I've obviously gotten hundreds of

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Speaker 3: messages from people and their horror stories with their bosses.

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Speaker 2: But it doesn't have to be that way.

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Speaker 3: I'm sick of people feeling like their boss is just

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Speaker 3: like dangling their role over their head and like taking

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Speaker 3: power over them. No, take your power back, like you

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Speaker 3: are powerful in your workplace, even if your boss is

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Speaker 3: an asshole.

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Speaker 2: Like this fills me with rage.

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Speaker 3: I honestly feel like I want to join parliament in

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Speaker 3: like the sector that look after employees well being.

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Speaker 1: Well, maybe we should do this more. If anyone is

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Speaker 1: listening and you have certain scenarios at work that you

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Speaker 1: think are unfair and not right, into us, We'll go

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Speaker 1: onto the Big Business Instagram page. Send us a DM,

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Speaker 1: Send us a DM and brit It will try and

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Speaker 1: address the issue.

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Speaker 3: Avoid empower you Honestly, all your employees out there like

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Speaker 3: you have power in your workplace, even if your boss

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Speaker 3: overpowers you and tries to belittle you, that's illegal.

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Speaker 1: If you're feeling back in the corner, you have no

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Speaker 1: rights like you have nowhere else to turn. Turn to

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Speaker 1: us and well, not me, I don't own a business.

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to be here for the bands. Turn

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Speaker 1: to brit Saunders on Big Business. She will empower you

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Speaker 1: and give you that encouragement you need.

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Speaker 3: Look, I feel like we haven't answered the question at

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Speaker 3: all in this episode. Why do people feel guilty? The

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Speaker 3: answer is we don't know. But my answer is no

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Speaker 3: one should feel guilty. Even I shouldn't feel guilty. If

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Speaker 3: I have a day offer to absolutely do. But it's

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Speaker 3: just riddled in us like in human nature. Yeah, but

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Speaker 3: I can't speak for your boss, but no, for me,

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Speaker 3: people have sick days because we get sick and we're humans,

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Speaker 3: and that's so fine. And you earn your sick days,

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Speaker 3: especially if you are a full timer and you've got

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Speaker 3: those sick days to use up.

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Speaker 2: Don't feel guilty about using them.

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Speaker 3: And also don't overly apologize if you are sick, because

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Speaker 3: it just happens, like that's life.

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Speaker 2: We get sick.

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Speaker 3: You shouldn't feel guilty about it at all, whether it

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Speaker 3: is like a physical sickness or mental health, whatever it

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Speaker 3: may be.

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Speaker 2: If you just feel like absolute shit, you're entitled.

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Speaker 3: To having a day off and you shouldn't feel guilty

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Speaker 3: about that in the slightest And fuck you to all

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Speaker 3: the bosses out there who make people feel bad about that.

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Speaker 1: I loved that monologue.

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Speaker 2: Done