WEBVTT - Electric incentives...the sequel 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:14.200 Hello, and welcome to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.799 James Kirby. Welcome aboard. You know, one of the most 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:22.400 popular shows we've had so far this year completely surprise me. 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:27.280 You might have heard the episode we did on incentives right, 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:29.960 Electric incentives we call that show, which was all the 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:35.360 incentives that are available for you in relation to clean 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:39.040 energy wherever you are in your home or in your car, 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.600 and it was with James Girard. I've had a lot 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.960 of questions after the show, and so we have to 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:48.400 have him on again because there's a lot more to 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:51.800 talk about. But just before we do, I also want 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:53.519 to talk to James about super tax because I've had 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:55.800 a fe lot of questions about that too. So let's 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:57.840 do the two. We'll just get the super tax and 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:00.440 we'll just bring people up to speed as too we are, 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:05.320 and then we will talk about electric incentives the sequel. 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:06.600 How are you, James. 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:09.120 I'm doing well. Thank you, James. Good to be on 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:10.640 the show today. 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:14.280 Telling me what's the latest on the supertax you're reading. 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:17.080 It's been dragging on for a while. It was introduced 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:20.320 to Parliament twelve months ago and it's in the Senate 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:23.039 and it looks like the Labor is pretty close to 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:25.759 doing a deal with the Greens in the cross benches, 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:29.040 so it's likely to come through as legislation in the 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:30.039 near future. 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:33.960 Right, because in effect it starts on July one, right, 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.319 I mean, in theory it starts on July one, twenty 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:41.120 twenty five. But they're basically what you The period in 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:44.440 which the tax supplies for which the revenue is collected 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:47.120 begins on July one, which is a couple of weeks away, 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:49.440 so I'm not surprised they're rushing to do a deed. 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:52.720 I think the Greens sound like, well, you know, according 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:56.200 to the papers, one of which is The Australian, and 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:58.680 I would take it pretty seriously because they're very plugged 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:02.520 in at that level. The Coalition won't be doing a 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:07.040 deal with Labor on this tax, the Greens will, and 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:10.640 the Greens it would seem shell shock, perhaps from the 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:13.520 negative reaction to how they objected to just about everything 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:17.320 that went into Parliament in the last parliament, seemed to 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:23.359 be agreeable towards the bulk of for Jim Chalmers plans. 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.240 So today's reading all the folks is a it's going 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:29.440 to happen. B it's going to include on realized games. Yes, 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:31.359 believe it or not, a whole damn thing is going 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:34.919 to happen and all the consequences, which we'll cover as 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:38.720 we go. And it may not be indexed. The Greens 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:41.079 aren't even pushing for that anymore, which is what they 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:43.040 were asking for. They were asking for it to be 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:45.240 indexed and to be brought down to two million, but 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:47.400 none of that might come to pass as we speak 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:49.959 this morning. So look a just a couple of quick 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:54.320 ones on that tax. James, now that you're here, before 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:57.680 we talk about the electric incentives and everything else that 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:02.000 came from that first show, asks why is the government 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:06.400 constantly thinking about tax Why don't they ever consider some savings? Well, 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:13.120 just quickly rambish, they don't. Actually, this government has not 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:17.320 particularly focused on bringing in new revenue. And the big one, 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:22.160 the big ticket item, is the super tax. Two point 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:26.760 three billion a year is the alleged total which they 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:29.960 will raise from this, and that is the reason I 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:34.760 think that they have brought in this tax. They haven't 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:39.600 actually brought in many other taxes. In fact, they've cut them. 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:41.960 Maybe think about the personal income tax. I just hot 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.360 through these pretty quickly, Tom asks, I have a quirky 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.440 question in regards to this on realized gains. I think 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:52.040 I know the answer, But could you theoretically go bankrupt 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:57.080 for a debt to the ATO on realize gains on 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:01.560 realized gains in your super? Okay, Tom asked, Gems, could 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:06.280 you go bankrupt on the basis of the tax you 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.280 were hit with? I was thinking about this. I can't 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:11.560 see how you could because you'd have three million in super. 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:12.360 Would you tell me? 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:18.360 Yeah, I think it's potentially possible. Reading the legislation Division 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:22.720 two ninety six, tax is levied to the individual, so 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:25.080 the individual will get a bill from the tax office. 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:28.440 And if the individual has no money to pay, if 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:32.200 the SMSF for the superinnuation account has lumpy assets in 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:35.680 it that can't be liquidated for whatever reason, well then 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:37.960 the tax office is going to go after you, just 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:41.000 like they would with any other DEBTA, and that could 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:45.359 progress through to legal action, which could be bankruptcy proceedings. 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:49.080 We're not a tabloid here, so let's just say, what 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:51.920 would you think are the probabilities of that happening? A 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.720 thousand to one, A million to one. 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:58.280 Look, so you just have to think about the circumstances 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:02.320 that could create that event to occur with the bankruptcy. 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:04.680 So one, there needs to be an asset there or 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.440 a superannuation balance of more than three million dollars, and 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:10.640 then there needs to be circumstances where that asset can't 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:14.039 be sold. Most assets in superannuation funds, even if they're 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:16.880 property based assets, they can be sold at some stage. 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:18.720 So it'd have to be something quite unique, such as 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:21.800 a closed ended investment trust that maybe has like a 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:24.560 ten or fifteen year term and there's no liquidity or 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:26.159 redemption windows within that. 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:28.200 You had all your three million super in. 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.840 It, exactly. Yeah, it'd have to be something quite niche. 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:33.560 And a lot of the chances of someone having. 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:37.960 That it's relatively low. You have to be quite a 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:40.200 high risk taker to throw more than three million. 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:44.200 Yeah, come on, put a number on it. Give us 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.080 a number, just tell the audience. 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:50.559 Sure, that's a less than one percent. You'll be talking 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:52.800 like one in a thousand and one in ten thousand 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:53.280 type thing. 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:56.919 Yeah, I'd say it's what a ten thousand door higher. 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:59.600 In fact, I would put it way way higher. But 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.960 you know, Tom, it's a great question. And if we 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:04.919 were the type we could get outraged about that, but 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:07.680 we only get outraged about things that matter, and we 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:10.120 are outraged enough about the super without coming up with 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:14.640 extraordinary arcane theoretical things. There's enough to worry about in 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:19.840 practice with this damn stupid, daft ungainly tax that is 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:22.680 silly in so many ways, and not because it's on 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:26.320 the three million mark, but because of the nature of 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.520 the exercise and the technique of which they are taxing. Okay, 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:31.960 I think that will do on the super tax, James, 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:34.320 because there's so much we wanted to talk about with 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:37.600 the electric incentives, and there's such demand public demand out 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:41.800 there from our listeners. Would you, just before we get 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:47.520 into the questions, briefly explain once more what you said 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:51.320 in the first show about what's available to you, for instance, 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:55.320 as a homeowner and briefly what's available to you as 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:59.120 a car owner in terms of the incentives available out 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:04.000 there for anyone in Australia anywhere at any level to 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:06.320 basically go clean energy. 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:10.840 Sure thing. So for the home at the moment, the 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:16.120 government does subsidize the cost of solar systems to be installed. 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:20.440 It's a few thousand dollars there are state incentives as well, 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:23.440 but as one of the election promises, Labor came out 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:27.600 and said, we'll add thirty percent extra reduction in the 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:31.040 cost of these solar systems, which is quite significant. And 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.240 when you stack the state government and the federal government rebates, 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.200 in a lot of cases it can halve the cost 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:40.120 of the system. And so I should clarify we're talking 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:43.000 about home batteries. I'm saying they're issuing that new thirty 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:44.160 percent rebate. 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:46.480 You made the point that more than three homes I 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:50.680 think had solar but only one in only a fraction 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:53.720 of those homes had batteries, which is what would really 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:55.400 make the whole thing come to that. 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:57.960 That's correct, Yeah, and that comes down to I think 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:00.640 when most people crunch the Excel spread sheet, they see 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:03.240 that the payback period is usually a give or take, 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.160 but about five years for a rooftop solar system, but 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:08.600 the battery can be closer to ten years for that 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:11.600 financial payback period. And as such, more people have the 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:14.440 solar panels, but they don't have the home battery. Although 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.320 in conversations over barbecues, a lot of people want to 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:20.760 get the home batteries, but they're waiting for the technology 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:23.200 to catch up and get to that point where that 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.400 the costs come down and the payback period is lesser. 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:30.880 So federal government labor have promised to thirty percent reduction 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:34.600 in the cost of the home batteries. And that's a 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.400 great thing. Now, So when I requnch the numbers, when 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.400 you add this new rebate there, it gets more compelling. 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.280 It's not amazing, but it's more compelling to put the 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:47.240 home battery in. So I'm assuming that battery installers are 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:49.920 going to be run off their feet later this year 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:51.880 as this thing starts. 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:54.280 Boom business, I know, the boom business created by the 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:58.720 targeted incentives of the Albanese administration. Oh key, and those 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:04.000 the barbecue conversations are over gas barbecues or even collar 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:08.439 cues either sort of barbecues. I'm not sure. I don't know. 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:13.600 I'm hopeless on anything robotely technical. Okay, now very briefly too. 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:19.080 On the electric car. What was the incentive available on 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:21.800 electric cars that our listeners may not know. 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:26.160 The history is that there's always been a scene callednovated 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:29.400 leasing where you can salary package vehicles and the way 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:32.319 that it works is that you use part of your 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:35.120 pre tax income part of your post tax income, and 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.360 it's usually a fifty to fifty split to be able 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:41.200 to fund a motor vehicle as part of your work package. 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:43.960 And you do it part pre tax, part post tax, 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:47.360 so basically you don't pay fringe benefits tax. Now, a 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:50.079 couple of years ago, the federal government said that if 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.160 you purchase an electric vehicle, you don't have to worry 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:55.680 about this pre tax post tax thing will allow you 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:56.000 to use. 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:57.480 You lease an electric vehicle. 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:00.960 You lease an electric vehicle, yeah, and at the end 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:02.920 you do have the option to buy the electric vehicle. 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.760 So although the word is least, for all intents and purposes, 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.240 it's your vehicle. You take ownership of it, you wash it, 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:10.040 you look after it, and then at the end it's 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:13.680 either sold and if there's any difference on the least contract, 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:15.280 you have to pay that out or you get cash 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.840 back if the lease residual is less than the payment 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:21.240 amount that you get for the car. So there's always 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:23.360 been in place, and the federal government said that we 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:26.360 want more electric vehicles on the road. So if you 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:30.360 buy a brand new electric vehicle through this novated leasing scheme, 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:33.080 you don't have to use any of your post tax income. 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:35.600 You can use one hundred percent of your pre tax 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:38.240 income to fund the vehicle. And now this is one 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:40.840 of the best tax breaks going around for high income 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:44.280 earners using their pre tax income to fund not just 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:47.719 the financing cost, but the ongoing operational cost of a 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.120 motor vehicle as well. So that's why it's costed the 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:52.600 government so much money over the past few years since 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:53.720 this scheme has started. 0:10:53.800 --> 0:11:01.440 Terrific So very simply Patrick, cars find a half deductible 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:05.040 against your income. But electric cars are one hundred percent 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:08.880 if you use an ovated lease standard least package. Yeah, 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.680 and that's why those that area is booming really interesting 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:16.680 and explains to some degree the sudden appearance of electric 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:20.200 youth all over the place. They are still youths, but 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:22.880 they're not as noisy. They seem to be cleaner too, 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:25.200 for some reason, I don't know why. All right, Okay, 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:29.520 we've got some great questions from our listeners. We'll take 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:42.480 a short break and we'll be back. Hello, Welcome back 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:46.559 to The Australian's Money Puzzle. James Kirby here with James Gerard. James, 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.439 can you see the questions? I'll read the first one 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:53.000 with David says on that electric car leasing, at the 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:55.880 end of the lease, do I hand the old clapped 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:59.000 out one back and list a new one who carries 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:02.080 the cost of the policy issue use the electric cars 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:04.240 to not appear to have much value. This is a 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:07.040 great question, David, and it's why I did say. I 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:09.880 have said regularly on the show, you're going to get 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.600 an electric car, release it because in five years, I 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:16.400 mean the technology change in five years and electric cars, 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:18.600 the five year old electric car is going to look 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.920 like an antique I reckon in five years time. You 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:23.720 think about what's happened in the last couple of years, 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:28.360 the charging, for instance, the rapid charging, etc. But so 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.000 the first part is does he hand it back or 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:33.439 lease a new one? That's up to him, isn't it really? 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:38.760 It is when you take out these electric car novated leases, 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.600 you get to choose how long, so one year up 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:44.640 to five years are the typical timeframes, and also how 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.199 much of that lease do you want left at the end, 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.240 and that will then dictate whether you pay more or 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:52.520 less on a monthly basis for that novated lease. A 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.560 really important point that I'd make is that electric vehicles 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:57.760 no longer cost one hundred thousand dollars like they did 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.719 ten years ago. You can now pick up these Chinese 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:04.320 built evs that have been imported in en Mass for 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:07.679 thirty five thousand dollars on road, and even if that 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:11.240 thing depreciates more than fifty percent over a couple of years, 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:16.239 it's still someone a compelling proposition compared to the equivalent 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:19.200 internal combustion engine vehicle where you're having to fill up 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:20.080 petrol or diesel. 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.160 Yeah, but would you say that it's better to li 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:25.560 sur by? 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:29.160 The Novata lesne works fantastically, that's game the ability to 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.600 use your pre tax income that there's nothing else like 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.000 it that can provide a similar benefit for the average 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:35.000 mum and dad worker. 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:37.760 Yeah, and fact a few years ago I remember looking, 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.240 but there was very little to choose from at that 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.480 time on novas a least, it's very little. There was 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:45.880 Tesla's and then there was one or two odd pod 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:48.600 cars that you never heard of, And now I see 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.880 there as an entire menu of them. Okay, thank you, David. 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:54.439 Great question. Okay you want to read it? 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.360 One from Chris, Yes, Chris, as I had a follow 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:00.559 up question on the topic of batteries. If I were 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:02.960 to use this battery to charge my com which I 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.200 primarily use for business purposes, and to power my home office, 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.439 internet lights, computers, et cetera. Can I claim the purchase 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:16.080 of that battery as a tax right off? I'm answering 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:21.160 that you are. I don't know the answer. What I 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:22.920 would say is that anything that we discuss on this 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:27.480 show is general information. It's not advised. Go see an accountant, Chris, 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.200 go see an accountant. But my view would be that yes, 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:35.120 it would be tax deductible because it's linked to your 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.640 ability to generate accessible income, which you're doing working from home. 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:40.320 So just like you would claim the other things that 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:42.800 you'd mentioned, you're be able to claim the battery as well. 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.920 So I think the answer that the answer to your 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:52.400 question there would be, Chris, it may be right. That's 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.480 what we would legally say that to cover ourselves. Legally, 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.720 we would say it maybe, and obviously our comment on 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:03.720 it would be it should be right. Partrick, does this 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:07.360 set up by that? I presume he means going electric 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.320 solar allow the property to go off grid or do 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:15.160 you need to retain an on grid connection. I note 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:18.560 that in bad weather, the solar generation can be very 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.480 low and question whether or not battery storage would be 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:25.560 sufficient to keep the property powered. Super question cuts to 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:29.560 the heart of the whole debate really about alternative energy 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.720 and clean energy, whether it can sustain obviously at an 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.280 industrial level, you know, can it do baseload And you 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:37.720 can read ten thousand stories on that if you want to. 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:41.120 But in terms of the particular issue, do you know, 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.160 James or would have you any idea what the consensus 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:44.040 is on that one? 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.200 I do. I've covered this once or twice in the 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:49.800 Work section of the Australian breaking down the financials of it. 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:52.560 So let me spit some facts to Patrick. So the 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:56.520 average household uses between fifteen to twenty kilo what hours 0:15:56.560 --> 0:16:00.160 of electricity on a daily basis, and these time battery 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:03.800 systems the capacity is anywhere from five killer what for 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.160 a smaller one up to fifteen killer what hour for 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.880 a larger system. So on that basic mass, it's going 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:12.000 to last you like half a day to a day 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.000 on battery only if there's a blackout, So it's not 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.400 going to last you very long at all. But one 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.080 thing which we didn't cover too much in our last 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.720 episode where we looked at solar and battery systems was 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:27.000 the ability which is not really there right now, but 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:30.400 it is coming in it's testing. At the moment. Technology 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.400 and adaptivity is occurring with regards to being able to 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:37.600 plug your car into the home and power your home 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.280 from the car, so it's called by directional charge in, 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:45.400 and some car manufacturers such as Kia and MG they 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:47.880 have the hardware in the cars to allow that, so 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:50.680 you can plug the charger in from the home to 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:53.200 the car and you can send the power from the 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.320 car to the house. But some manufacturers like Tesla, they're 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.600 not there yet. They're promising to provide that technology sometime 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:02.000 this year, but it's not there at the moment. So 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.280 that is an alternative to get in a home battery 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:07.159 that that big battery just plumked onto the side of 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:09.639 your house. You can actually get away from that. And 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.720 if you wait and just see how this technology adapts, 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:16.280 in which one becomes a predominant way into the future, 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:19.159 it might be better to just wait a bit and 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:21.600 then maybe buy anyv if that's on the cards, or 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:23.680 use your existing EV to charge at your home and 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:25.879 then you don't have to spend eight to twelve thousand 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:27.520 dollars on a home battery. 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:34.000 So the car overnight can power the house. I'm not 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.800 awfully careful here now because I have such a robbery 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.159 grasp of all this. There's a battery of the car. 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.280 Right, there's a battery, big battery of the car. 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:46.240 Okay, battery of the car. I'm confident of that battery. 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:51.399 What it has is so powerful and has capacity on 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.880 used in your driving of the car that you could 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:59.760 power your house. Has it got that sort of capacity 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:04.120 in a feasible way to do a full home It does. 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:08.119 When you look at the home battery system, they're quite large, 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.439 insulated big things, and the batteries in the car you 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:13.760 don't really see them under the floor, so you assume 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.879 that they're not that large. But actually the capacity of 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:21.400 the batteries in the electric vehicles multiple times bigger than 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:25.040 the capacity for the home battery systems. I'm not exactly 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:27.399 sure why, but that's the case. So my electric vehicle 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:31.160 has a seventy kilo what hour battery capacity, and going 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.119 back to the commonly installed home battery systems that you 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.360 plunk on the side of the house, there between five 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.399 to fifteen, So we can see the really big difference there, 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:43.280 and it's not just powering your home from your electric vehicle. 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.240 There's another thing called vehicle to grid and what that 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:49.560 would do is you can actually send the electricity from 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:52.959 your car's battery or ev battery back to the grid 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:56.040 at times when it's needed, maybe at night times, and 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:58.760 generate a bit of revenue that way. So that's still 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:00.000 in the trial phase in Australia. 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:03.280 I want to try and keep on the main frame here, 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:05.320 which is you're saying that we're at a sort of 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:13.320 a junction in this evolution of electric and battery power 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.960 in the suburban home and car, where it would seem 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:18.919 just now, it might in the future be that the 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:21.879 house battery goes both ways into the car, or it 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:24.080 might be that the car goes both ways into the home. 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:25.840 Is that right? And one could we don't know just 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:26.880 now which way it will go. 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:28.280 That's right. 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:33.040 Wow, Yeah, okay, I see that's really interesting, and it 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:37.560 kind of changes the economics of the leasing of the car. 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:42.719 I mean, it adds to the attraction if it's the 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.960 case that the car becomes the sort of the engine room, 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:49.680 if you like. Of all this really interesting, Okay, very good. 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:51.439 We will take a short break and we'll be back 0:19:51.480 --> 0:20:15.600 in a moment. Hello, Welcome back to the Australian's Money 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:19.400 Puzzle podcast. I'm James Kirby talking to James Gerard at 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:23.000 Financial Advisor dot com dot au, who is also I 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:26.440 might add, a sincere car geek and in recent times 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:30.080 has updated himself to the world of electric cars. I 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:32.320 wanted to ask. There's a couple of questions also, James 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:34.880 and John just going to package together now that came 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:39.560 from that first show. The first one is it's criticism 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:41.680 of the show, I suppose, and of the whole scene 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:44.200 is that it seems like the whole thing is designed 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:49.720 for the homeowner with the standard suburban home with a 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.800 garage and a bit of space for the car, and 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:56.560 everyone else's to some extent left out. Is that true? 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:00.680 It is absolutely true. There's a group of people who 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:03.800 don't have the ability to be able to put solar 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:06.399 panels on the roof and home battery systems in and 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.520 they include people who live in apartment blocks they need 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.160 to vote with the other apartment owners to be able 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:15.280 to make those decisions. And also people that live in 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:19.239 inner city areas where there's no off street parking, so 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:21.800 they don't have that ability to be able to in 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:24.440 all the cases buy the electric vehicle because it's hard 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:27.720 for them to charge it. I've seen on TV people 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:31.000 that stuck electrical cords and put them over trees and 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:32.879 over foot paths to try and charge their evs, and 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:36.760 councils invariably tell them off due to public liability reasons. 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:40.439 Right dot, Some concerts make an effort, and I assume 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:44.760 they will increasingly do so to provide public charges. I mean, 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:49.600 I know that there are such council charges out there 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:52.760 in public areas that are not in private property. Do 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:55.040 they work? I mean I hear stories that there's cues 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:58.439 for them, that they're vandalized, et cetera. Do they work? 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:00.320 And are there many of them? 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:03.240 They do so. In my household, it's a ritual every 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:06.080