1 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm 2 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 1: James Kirby. Welcome aboard. You know, one of the most 3 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: popular shows we've had so far this year completely surprise me. 4 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: You might have heard the episode we did on incentives right, 5 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: Electric incentives we call that show, which was all the 6 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: incentives that are available for you in relation to clean 7 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: energy wherever you are in your home or in your car, 8 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: and it was with James Girard. I've had a lot 9 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: of questions after the show, and so we have to 10 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: have him on again because there's a lot more to 11 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: talk about. But just before we do, I also want 12 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: to talk to James about super tax because I've had 13 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: a fe lot of questions about that too. So let's 14 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: do the two. We'll just get the super tax and 15 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: we'll just bring people up to speed as too we are, 16 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 1: and then we will talk about electric incentives the sequel. 17 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: How are you, James. 18 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 2: I'm doing well. Thank you, James. Good to be on 19 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 2: the show today. 20 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: Telling me what's the latest on the supertax you're reading. 21 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 2: It's been dragging on for a while. It was introduced 22 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 2: to Parliament twelve months ago and it's in the Senate 23 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 2: and it looks like the Labor is pretty close to 24 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 2: doing a deal with the Greens in the cross benches, 25 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 2: so it's likely to come through as legislation in the 26 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 2: near future. 27 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: Right, because in effect it starts on July one, right, 28 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: I mean, in theory it starts on July one, twenty 29 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: twenty five. But they're basically what you The period in 30 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: which the tax supplies for which the revenue is collected 31 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: begins on July one, which is a couple of weeks away, 32 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: so I'm not surprised they're rushing to do a deed. 33 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: I think the Greens sound like, well, you know, according 34 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: to the papers, one of which is The Australian, and 35 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: I would take it pretty seriously because they're very plugged 36 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: in at that level. The Coalition won't be doing a 37 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: deal with Labor on this tax, the Greens will, and 38 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: the Greens it would seem shell shock, perhaps from the 39 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: negative reaction to how they objected to just about everything 40 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: that went into Parliament in the last parliament, seemed to 41 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: be agreeable towards the bulk of for Jim Chalmers plans. 42 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: So today's reading all the folks is a it's going 43 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: to happen. B it's going to include on realized games. Yes, 44 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 1: believe it or not, a whole damn thing is going 45 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: to happen and all the consequences, which we'll cover as 46 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: we go. And it may not be indexed. The Greens 47 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: aren't even pushing for that anymore, which is what they 48 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: were asking for. They were asking for it to be 49 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: indexed and to be brought down to two million, but 50 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: none of that might come to pass as we speak 51 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 1: this morning. So look a just a couple of quick 52 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: ones on that tax. James, now that you're here, before 53 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: we talk about the electric incentives and everything else that 54 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: came from that first show, asks why is the government 55 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: constantly thinking about tax Why don't they ever consider some savings? Well, 56 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: just quickly rambish, they don't. Actually, this government has not 57 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: particularly focused on bringing in new revenue. And the big one, 58 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: the big ticket item, is the super tax. Two point 59 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: three billion a year is the alleged total which they 60 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: will raise from this, and that is the reason I 61 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: think that they have brought in this tax. They haven't 62 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: actually brought in many other taxes. In fact, they've cut them. 63 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: Maybe think about the personal income tax. I just hot 64 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: through these pretty quickly, Tom asks, I have a quirky 65 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: question in regards to this on realized gains. I think 66 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: I know the answer, But could you theoretically go bankrupt 67 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: for a debt to the ATO on realize gains on 68 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: realized gains in your super? Okay, Tom asked, Gems, could 69 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: you go bankrupt on the basis of the tax you 70 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: were hit with? I was thinking about this. I can't 71 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: see how you could because you'd have three million in super. 72 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: Would you tell me? 73 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's potentially possible. Reading the legislation Division 74 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 2: two ninety six, tax is levied to the individual, so 75 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 2: the individual will get a bill from the tax office. 76 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 2: And if the individual has no money to pay, if 77 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 2: the SMSF for the superinnuation account has lumpy assets in 78 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 2: it that can't be liquidated for whatever reason, well then 79 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: the tax office is going to go after you, just 80 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 2: like they would with any other DEBTA, and that could 81 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 2: progress through to legal action, which could be bankruptcy proceedings. 82 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: We're not a tabloid here, so let's just say, what 83 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: would you think are the probabilities of that happening? A 84 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: thousand to one, A million to one. 85 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 2: Look, so you just have to think about the circumstances 86 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 2: that could create that event to occur with the bankruptcy. 87 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 2: So one, there needs to be an asset there or 88 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: a superannuation balance of more than three million dollars, and 89 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: then there needs to be circumstances where that asset can't 90 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 2: be sold. Most assets in superannuation funds, even if they're 91 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 2: property based assets, they can be sold at some stage. 92 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 2: So it'd have to be something quite unique, such as 93 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 2: a closed ended investment trust that maybe has like a 94 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: ten or fifteen year term and there's no liquidity or 95 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 2: redemption windows within that. 96 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: You had all your three million super in. 97 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 2: It, exactly. Yeah, it'd have to be something quite niche. 98 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: And a lot of the chances of someone having. 99 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 2: That it's relatively low. You have to be quite a 100 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 2: high risk taker to throw more than three million. 101 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, come on, put a number on it. Give us 102 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: a number, just tell the audience. 103 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,559 Speaker 2: Sure, that's a less than one percent. You'll be talking 104 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 2: like one in a thousand and one in ten thousand 105 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 2: type thing. 106 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd say it's what a ten thousand door higher. 107 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 1: In fact, I would put it way way higher. But 108 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: you know, Tom, it's a great question. And if we 109 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 1: were the type we could get outraged about that, but 110 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: we only get outraged about things that matter, and we 111 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: are outraged enough about the super without coming up with 112 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: extraordinary arcane theoretical things. There's enough to worry about in 113 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: practice with this damn stupid, daft ungainly tax that is 114 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: silly in so many ways, and not because it's on 115 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: the three million mark, but because of the nature of 116 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: the exercise and the technique of which they are taxing. Okay, 117 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: I think that will do on the super tax, James, 118 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: because there's so much we wanted to talk about with 119 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: the electric incentives, and there's such demand public demand out 120 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: there from our listeners. Would you, just before we get 121 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: into the questions, briefly explain once more what you said 122 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: in the first show about what's available to you, for instance, 123 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: as a homeowner and briefly what's available to you as 124 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: a car owner in terms of the incentives available out 125 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: there for anyone in Australia anywhere at any level to 126 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: basically go clean energy. 127 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 2: Sure thing. So for the home at the moment, the 128 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: government does subsidize the cost of solar systems to be installed. 129 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 2: It's a few thousand dollars there are state incentives as well, 130 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 2: but as one of the election promises, Labor came out 131 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 2: and said, we'll add thirty percent extra reduction in the 132 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 2: cost of these solar systems, which is quite significant. And 133 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 2: when you stack the state government and the federal government rebates, 134 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: in a lot of cases it can halve the cost 135 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 2: of the system. And so I should clarify we're talking 136 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 2: about home batteries. I'm saying they're issuing that new thirty 137 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 2: percent rebate. 138 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: You made the point that more than three homes I 139 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: think had solar but only one in only a fraction 140 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: of those homes had batteries, which is what would really 141 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: make the whole thing come to that. 142 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: That's correct, Yeah, and that comes down to I think 143 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: when most people crunch the Excel spread sheet, they see 144 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 2: that the payback period is usually a give or take, 145 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 2: but about five years for a rooftop solar system, but 146 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 2: the battery can be closer to ten years for that 147 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 2: financial payback period. And as such, more people have the 148 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 2: solar panels, but they don't have the home battery. Although 149 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: in conversations over barbecues, a lot of people want to 150 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 2: get the home batteries, but they're waiting for the technology 151 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 2: to catch up and get to that point where that 152 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 2: the costs come down and the payback period is lesser. 153 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 2: So federal government labor have promised to thirty percent reduction 154 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 2: in the cost of the home batteries. And that's a 155 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 2: great thing. Now, So when I requnch the numbers, when 156 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 2: you add this new rebate there, it gets more compelling. 157 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 2: It's not amazing, but it's more compelling to put the 158 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 2: home battery in. So I'm assuming that battery installers are 159 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 2: going to be run off their feet later this year 160 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 2: as this thing starts. 161 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: Boom business, I know, the boom business created by the 162 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: targeted incentives of the Albanese administration. Oh key, and those 163 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: the barbecue conversations are over gas barbecues or even collar 164 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 1: cues either sort of barbecues. I'm not sure. I don't know. 165 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: I'm hopeless on anything robotely technical. Okay, now very briefly too. 166 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: On the electric car. What was the incentive available on 167 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: electric cars that our listeners may not know. 168 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 2: The history is that there's always been a scene callednovated 169 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 2: leasing where you can salary package vehicles and the way 170 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 2: that it works is that you use part of your 171 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 2: pre tax income part of your post tax income, and 172 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: it's usually a fifty to fifty split to be able 173 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 2: to fund a motor vehicle as part of your work package. 174 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 2: And you do it part pre tax, part post tax, 175 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 2: so basically you don't pay fringe benefits tax. Now, a 176 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,079 Speaker 2: couple of years ago, the federal government said that if 177 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 2: you purchase an electric vehicle, you don't have to worry 178 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 2: about this pre tax post tax thing will allow you 179 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 2: to use. 180 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: You lease an electric vehicle. 181 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 2: You lease an electric vehicle, yeah, and at the end 182 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 2: you do have the option to buy the electric vehicle. 183 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 2: So although the word is least, for all intents and purposes, 184 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: it's your vehicle. You take ownership of it, you wash it, 185 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 2: you look after it, and then at the end it's 186 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 2: either sold and if there's any difference on the least contract, 187 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 2: you have to pay that out or you get cash 188 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 2: back if the lease residual is less than the payment 189 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 2: amount that you get for the car. So there's always 190 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 2: been in place, and the federal government said that we 191 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: want more electric vehicles on the road. So if you 192 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 2: buy a brand new electric vehicle through this novated leasing scheme, 193 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 2: you don't have to use any of your post tax income. 194 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 2: You can use one hundred percent of your pre tax 195 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 2: income to fund the vehicle. And now this is one 196 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 2: of the best tax breaks going around for high income 197 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 2: earners using their pre tax income to fund not just 198 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,719 Speaker 2: the financing cost, but the ongoing operational cost of a 199 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 2: motor vehicle as well. So that's why it's costed the 200 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 2: government so much money over the past few years since 201 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 2: this scheme has started. 202 00:10:53,800 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: Terrific So very simply Patrick, cars find a half deductible 203 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: against your income. But electric cars are one hundred percent 204 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: if you use an ovated lease standard least package. Yeah, 205 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: and that's why those that area is booming really interesting 206 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: and explains to some degree the sudden appearance of electric 207 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: youth all over the place. They are still youths, but 208 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: they're not as noisy. They seem to be cleaner too, 209 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: for some reason, I don't know why. All right, Okay, 210 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: we've got some great questions from our listeners. We'll take 211 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: a short break and we'll be back. Hello, Welcome back 212 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 1: to The Australian's Money Puzzle. James Kirby here with James Gerard. James, 213 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 1: can you see the questions? I'll read the first one 214 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: with David says on that electric car leasing, at the 215 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: end of the lease, do I hand the old clapped 216 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: out one back and list a new one who carries 217 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: the cost of the policy issue use the electric cars 218 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: to not appear to have much value. This is a 219 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: great question, David, and it's why I did say. I 220 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: have said regularly on the show, you're going to get 221 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: an electric car, release it because in five years, I 222 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: mean the technology change in five years and electric cars, 223 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: the five year old electric car is going to look 224 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: like an antique I reckon in five years time. You 225 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: think about what's happened in the last couple of years, 226 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: the charging, for instance, the rapid charging, etc. But so 227 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: the first part is does he hand it back or 228 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 1: lease a new one? That's up to him, isn't it really? 229 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 2: It is when you take out these electric car novated leases, 230 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 2: you get to choose how long, so one year up 231 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 2: to five years are the typical timeframes, and also how 232 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 2: much of that lease do you want left at the end, 233 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 2: and that will then dictate whether you pay more or 234 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 2: less on a monthly basis for that novated lease. A 235 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 2: really important point that I'd make is that electric vehicles 236 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 2: no longer cost one hundred thousand dollars like they did 237 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,719 Speaker 2: ten years ago. You can now pick up these Chinese 238 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 2: built evs that have been imported in en Mass for 239 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 2: thirty five thousand dollars on road, and even if that 240 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 2: thing depreciates more than fifty percent over a couple of years, 241 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:16,239 Speaker 2: it's still someone a compelling proposition compared to the equivalent 242 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 2: internal combustion engine vehicle where you're having to fill up 243 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 2: petrol or diesel. 244 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, but would you say that it's better to li 245 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: sur by? 246 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 2: The Novata lesne works fantastically, that's game the ability to 247 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 2: use your pre tax income that there's nothing else like 248 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 2: it that can provide a similar benefit for the average 249 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 2: mum and dad worker. 250 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and fact a few years ago I remember looking, 251 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: but there was very little to choose from at that 252 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: time on novas a least, it's very little. There was 253 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: Tesla's and then there was one or two odd pod 254 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: cars that you never heard of, And now I see 255 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: there as an entire menu of them. Okay, thank you, David. 256 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 1: Great question. Okay you want to read it? 257 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 2: One from Chris, Yes, Chris, as I had a follow 258 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 2: up question on the topic of batteries. If I were 259 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 2: to use this battery to charge my com which I 260 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 2: primarily use for business purposes, and to power my home office, 261 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 2: internet lights, computers, et cetera. Can I claim the purchase 262 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 2: of that battery as a tax right off? I'm answering 263 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 2: that you are. I don't know the answer. What I 264 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 2: would say is that anything that we discuss on this 265 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 2: show is general information. It's not advised. Go see an accountant, Chris, 266 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 2: go see an accountant. But my view would be that yes, 267 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 2: it would be tax deductible because it's linked to your 268 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 2: ability to generate accessible income, which you're doing working from home. 269 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 2: So just like you would claim the other things that 270 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 2: you'd mentioned, you're be able to claim the battery as well. 271 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: So I think the answer that the answer to your 272 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: question there would be, Chris, it may be right. That's 273 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: what we would legally say that to cover ourselves. Legally, 274 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: we would say it maybe, and obviously our comment on 275 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: it would be it should be right. Partrick, does this 276 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: set up by that? I presume he means going electric 277 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: solar allow the property to go off grid or do 278 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: you need to retain an on grid connection. I note 279 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: that in bad weather, the solar generation can be very 280 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: low and question whether or not battery storage would be 281 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: sufficient to keep the property powered. Super question cuts to 282 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: the heart of the whole debate really about alternative energy 283 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: and clean energy, whether it can sustain obviously at an 284 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: industrial level, you know, can it do baseload And you 285 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: can read ten thousand stories on that if you want to. 286 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: But in terms of the particular issue, do you know, 287 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: James or would have you any idea what the consensus 288 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: is on that one? 289 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 2: I do. I've covered this once or twice in the 290 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 2: Work section of the Australian breaking down the financials of it. 291 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 2: So let me spit some facts to Patrick. So the 292 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 2: average household uses between fifteen to twenty kilo what hours 293 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 2: of electricity on a daily basis, and these time battery 294 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 2: systems the capacity is anywhere from five killer what for 295 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 2: a smaller one up to fifteen killer what hour for 296 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 2: a larger system. So on that basic mass, it's going 297 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 2: to last you like half a day to a day 298 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 2: on battery only if there's a blackout, So it's not 299 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 2: going to last you very long at all. But one 300 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 2: thing which we didn't cover too much in our last 301 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 2: episode where we looked at solar and battery systems was 302 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 2: the ability which is not really there right now, but 303 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 2: it is coming in it's testing. At the moment. Technology 304 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 2: and adaptivity is occurring with regards to being able to 305 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 2: plug your car into the home and power your home 306 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 2: from the car, so it's called by directional charge in, 307 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 2: and some car manufacturers such as Kia and MG they 308 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 2: have the hardware in the cars to allow that, so 309 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 2: you can plug the charger in from the home to 310 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 2: the car and you can send the power from the 311 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 2: car to the house. But some manufacturers like Tesla, they're 312 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 2: not there yet. They're promising to provide that technology sometime 313 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 2: this year, but it's not there at the moment. So 314 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 2: that is an alternative to get in a home battery 315 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 2: that that big battery just plumked onto the side of 316 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 2: your house. You can actually get away from that. And 317 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 2: if you wait and just see how this technology adapts, 318 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 2: in which one becomes a predominant way into the future, 319 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 2: it might be better to just wait a bit and 320 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 2: then maybe buy anyv if that's on the cards, or 321 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 2: use your existing EV to charge at your home and 322 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 2: then you don't have to spend eight to twelve thousand 323 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 2: dollars on a home battery. 324 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: So the car overnight can power the house. I'm not 325 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: awfully careful here now because I have such a robbery 326 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: grasp of all this. There's a battery of the car. 327 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 2: Right, there's a battery, big battery of the car. 328 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: Okay, battery of the car. I'm confident of that battery. 329 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: What it has is so powerful and has capacity on 330 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: used in your driving of the car that you could 331 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: power your house. Has it got that sort of capacity 332 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 1: in a feasible way to do a full home It does. 333 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 2: When you look at the home battery system, they're quite large, 334 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 2: insulated big things, and the batteries in the car you 335 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 2: don't really see them under the floor, so you assume 336 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 2: that they're not that large. But actually the capacity of 337 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 2: the batteries in the electric vehicles multiple times bigger than 338 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 2: the capacity for the home battery systems. I'm not exactly 339 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 2: sure why, but that's the case. So my electric vehicle 340 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 2: has a seventy kilo what hour battery capacity, and going 341 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 2: back to the commonly installed home battery systems that you 342 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 2: plunk on the side of the house, there between five 343 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 2: to fifteen, So we can see the really big difference there, 344 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 2: and it's not just powering your home from your electric vehicle. 345 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 2: There's another thing called vehicle to grid and what that 346 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 2: would do is you can actually send the electricity from 347 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,959 Speaker 2: your car's battery or ev battery back to the grid 348 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 2: at times when it's needed, maybe at night times, and 349 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 2: generate a bit of revenue that way. So that's still 350 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 2: in the trial phase in Australia. 351 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: I want to try and keep on the main frame here, 352 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: which is you're saying that we're at a sort of 353 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: a junction in this evolution of electric and battery power 354 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: in the suburban home and car, where it would seem 355 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: just now, it might in the future be that the 356 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 1: house battery goes both ways into the car, or it 357 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: might be that the car goes both ways into the home. 358 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: Is that right? And one could we don't know just 359 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: now which way it will go. 360 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 2: That's right. 361 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: Wow, Yeah, okay, I see that's really interesting, and it 362 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: kind of changes the economics of the leasing of the car. 363 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:42,719 Speaker 1: I mean, it adds to the attraction if it's the 364 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: case that the car becomes the sort of the engine room, 365 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: if you like. Of all this really interesting, Okay, very good. 366 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: We will take a short break and we'll be back 367 00:19:51,480 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: in a moment. Hello, Welcome back to the Australian's Money 368 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 1: Puzzle podcast. I'm James Kirby talking to James Gerard at 369 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: Financial Advisor dot com dot au, who is also I 370 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: might add, a sincere car geek and in recent times 371 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: has updated himself to the world of electric cars. I 372 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: wanted to ask. There's a couple of questions also, James 373 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: and John just going to package together now that came 374 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: from that first show. The first one is it's criticism 375 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: of the show, I suppose, and of the whole scene 376 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: is that it seems like the whole thing is designed 377 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: for the homeowner with the standard suburban home with a 378 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: garage and a bit of space for the car, and 379 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: everyone else's to some extent left out. Is that true? 380 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 2: It is absolutely true. There's a group of people who 381 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 2: don't have the ability to be able to put solar 382 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 2: panels on the roof and home battery systems in and 383 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 2: they include people who live in apartment blocks they need 384 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 2: to vote with the other apartment owners to be able 385 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 2: to make those decisions. And also people that live in 386 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:19,239 Speaker 2: inner city areas where there's no off street parking, so 387 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 2: they don't have that ability to be able to in 388 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 2: all the cases buy the electric vehicle because it's hard 389 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 2: for them to charge it. I've seen on TV people 390 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 2: that stuck electrical cords and put them over trees and 391 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 2: over foot paths to try and charge their evs, and 392 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 2: councils invariably tell them off due to public liability reasons. 393 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 1: Right dot, Some concerts make an effort, and I assume 394 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: they will increasingly do so to provide public charges. I mean, 395 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: I know that there are such council charges out there 396 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: in public areas that are not in private property. Do 397 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: they work? I mean I hear stories that there's cues 398 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,439 Speaker 1: for them, that they're vandalized, et cetera. Do they work? 399 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: And are there many of them? 400 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 2: They do so. In my household, it's a ritual every 401 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 2: Friday night we go to the same Japanese restaurant at Chatswood, 402 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 2: which is on the upper north shore of Sydney, and 403 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 2: we try and park in one of two electric vehicle 404 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 2: spots which have council charges there, and it's really hard 405 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 2: to get because they're just so popular. It might be 406 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 2: one in every four trips that we're able to actually 407 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 2: charge our vehicle on the street using one of these 408 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 2: council charges, So I'd say availability of the charger is 409 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 2: an issue. And then another thing which I'd add is 410 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 2: that if one of the main drivers for you to 411 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 2: purchase an electric vehicle wasn't just the financials but also 412 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 2: the environmental benefits, you have to think, how are these 413 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 2: council electric vehicle charges generating electricity? It's probably coming from 414 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 2: the grid, which is still predominantly from coal powered fire 415 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 2: powered electricity generators, which isn't so great for the environment. 416 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: No, though I suppose the person would say, would argue 417 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: that the core component is feeding, is not decreasing, and 418 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: on that basis in the right direction. Is there only protocol? 419 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: And this is it just like whoever it gets there first? 420 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: Is can you book them? 421 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 2: You can't book them, But there are apps where you 422 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 2: can see around your local area which charges are available, 423 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 2: which ones are being used, and the cost as well. 424 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 2: And what I've noticed is that if there are say 425 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 2: two charges side by side, if one of them is 426 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 2: being used and you come and use the second one, 427 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 2: you don't get the full speed of the charger. You 428 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 2: only get fifty percent because the power gets split. So 429 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 2: for you to get that faster charge in you need 430 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 2: to be the only one charge in your vehicle there, right. 431 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,719 Speaker 1: I see, Gee, okay, sounds like there's a fair bit 432 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: to go on the civic side of this, And I 433 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: suppose to some extent that's an issue of scale. If 434 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: you remember the early days of mobile phone, will I 435 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 1: get a mobile phone? Well, only so many people have 436 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: a mobile phone, you know. But then would you get 437 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: a mobile phone today? Well, of course, you can barely 438 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: live without it. And maybe that we're coming to that, 439 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: moving towards that inflection point where it's all the economies 440 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: of scale makes sense around around this issue of clean 441 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: energy and solar power in particular, above the electric cars 442 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: second hand value good, no good, hopeless, peaceable. It's always 443 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: a question. 444 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 2: It's really interesting because I think that the commonly held 445 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 2: perception is that they're junk. They're worthless after the battery 446 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 2: runs out. However, looking at the experience of teslas, which 447 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 2: have been around the longest for electric vehicle manufacturers, there 448 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 2: still is an aftermarket for them. People are buying them 449 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 2: ten years old. They're paying tens of thousands of dollars 450 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 2: for these teslas with wonky batteries because they're just having 451 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 2: the batteries replaced, and understand that it can be anywhere 452 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 2: from ten to twenty thousand to replace the battery. But 453 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 2: you do that and you've got this electric vehicle that 454 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 2: will last another ten years with very minimal maintenance required. 455 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 2: And then if we come back to today's electric vehicles, 456 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 2: which are circup thirty five thousand for the more budget 457 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 2: orientated ones, again spend ten thousand dollars on it, and 458 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,199 Speaker 2: then after five years you might pick it up for 459 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 2: fifteen thousand or so. So someone will spend some money, 460 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 2: so twenty five thousand, and a lot of people won't 461 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 2: be able to afford the full thirty five thousand. It's 462 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 2: a lot of money, but they might be able to 463 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 2: afford and scraped by twenty five so there'll definitely be 464 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 2: enough to market and an industry there where these electric 465 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 2: vehicles will be old batteries taken out, those batteries recycled, 466 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 2: new battery put in, and then they'll be sold again. 467 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 2: So it quite funny to see or because we don't 468 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 2: see this at the moment, but the used car dealers 469 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 2: are going to have more electric vehicles being sold rather 470 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 2: than just internal combustion engine vehicles. 471 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, And if the old car electric car, it's given 472 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: a battery to d to replace the battery it had 473 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:49,239 Speaker 1: ten years ago. Is that battery almost for sure to 474 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: be a better speedier, charge faster. 475 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll be comparable, but it'll be lighter. It'll probably 476 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 2: last for longer as well, because the battery technology has 477 00:25:58,880 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 2: improved over the. 478 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: Take less time to charge this battery. 479 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, it will take less time to charge depending on 480 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 2: the hardware of the car. If the hardware within the 481 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 2: car can be upgraded to match the better specs of 482 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 2: the battery, yes, But if the hardware is stuck ten 483 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 2: years ago for the car, well then no, you're stuck 484 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,120 Speaker 2: with the charging speeds ten years ago. 485 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: Well, the ten year old car can take this new 486 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: battery anyway, can It is optional whether you upgraded. It 487 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: will work in the old car. The new battery will 488 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: work in the old car. 489 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 2: That's correct. Yeah, it will absolutely work. And I was 490 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 2: speaking to my local mechanic a little while ago when 491 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 2: he was teasing me saying that I'm going to be 492 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 2: replaced by AI over the next ten years. 493 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: And he was teasing you that he would be replaced 494 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: by AI. 495 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 2: Are you you were saying that I'm going to be 496 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 2: replaced by AI. So I gave it back to him, 497 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 2: saying that you're going to be replaced by electric vehicles. 498 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 2: You're not gonna be able to service cars anymore. And 499 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 2: he said something really interesting. He said that I've thought 500 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 2: about this and I can see it coming. I'm seeing 501 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 2: less cars come into my workshop because more people are 502 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 2: buying electric vehicles that don't need the heavy servicing that 503 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 2: traditional cars will have. He said, but there is a 504 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 2: developing industry where combustion engine vehicles, so to be clear, 505 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 2: the petrol and diesel engine vehicles are being repurposed into 506 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 2: electric vehicles. So it feels there's this industry emerging where 507 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 2: you'll be able to just take your petrol toy camera in, 508 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 2: leave it there for a day, and then it pops 509 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 2: out as an electric vehicle a day later. 510 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: Wow, I suppose that's probably happening at the top end 511 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: luxury messids or whatever rolls roys or whatever. You know, 512 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 1: the car is very valuable and collectors will do anything 513 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: to keep What they spend on them is unbelievable, so 514 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,719 Speaker 1: they would have no qualms at all or spending whatever 515 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,679 Speaker 1: it takes to make that an electric version of what 516 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: it used to. 517 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 2: Be or whatever. 518 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: Very interesting. Yeah, I don't know about you being replaced 519 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: by AI and the mechanic either. I don't know, so 520 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: you could be replaced by AI, and the mechanic could 521 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: be replaced by a robot. We all have our concerns, 522 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: none of which I think we need worry about too 523 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: much if we're good, and that's all you have to be, 524 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,640 Speaker 1: all right now, Carl. The final question for cup, which 525 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:11,719 Speaker 1: is a considerable question hot water heat pumps and solar 526 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: hot water. We get right into the plumbing here. You 527 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: discuss solar panels and batteries, which was great, but I 528 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: was curious about how hot water heat pumps and solar 529 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: hot water systems fit into the picture. My possibly outdated 530 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 1: understanding is that roughly a third of household power goes 531 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: into heating water, another third into running the fridge, and 532 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: the rest into everything else. So I'm wondering, ay, are 533 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: you generally better off with solar hot water or with 534 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: electric water heating powered by roofed up solar, and how 535 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: do the rebates or incentives compare between those options? James Soluers, 536 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: Thank you, James. 537 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 2: So to be clear, Carl is speaking about the thing 538 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 2: that you see on some people's roofs where there's this 539 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 2: big shiny aluminium looking thing with then these solar panel 540 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 2: looking things that they come off it. That is the 541 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 2: rooftop solar And I'd always thought that it was a 542 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 2: solar panel then heating up the water inside of that 543 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 2: water tank that's kept on the roof, but it's not 544 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 2: actually a solar panel. It's actually tubes and the sun 545 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 2: hits those tubes which has water in it, and it 546 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 2: heats up the water inside that tube and then sends 547 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 2: it back into the big canister. And that's how rooftop 548 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 2: solar works. And that's starkly different to what Carl's mentioning 549 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 2: with the hot water pump, which I understand to be 550 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 2: what you're having your laundry that the water tanks or 551 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 2: underneath your house or outside the side of your house, 552 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 2: which you can then separately have solar panels installed on 553 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 2: the roof which can then power the electric pumps inside 554 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 2: of those water tanks to then heat your electricity. So 555 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 2: looking at those two things side by side, it depends 556 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 2: on the state incentives, which varies from state to territory, 557 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 2: but generally, as a ruler thumb, you get more incentives 558 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 2: to put solar panels on the roof than you do 559 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 2: to put the rooftop sol the hot water system in 560 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,959 Speaker 2: and also on an ongoing basis, it tends to be 561 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 2: more efficiency with the solar panels paired up with the 562 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 2: heat pumps or the water tank combo compared to the 563 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 2: rooftop hot water solar. And the reason is that there's 564 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 2: a thing called boosting, which is thesefto hot water solar 565 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 2: things they still have electric pumps in them because if 566 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 2: there's no sun for a couple of days, well then 567 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 2: you don't have cold showers. So they still need to 568 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 2: heat the water up at times, and that can be 569 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 2: variable when that electric pump kicks in, and it could 570 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 2: be at peak times, which then you have to pay 571 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 2: more electricity. Whereas if you have solar panels on the roof, 572 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 2: you can actually time with the settings, decide when you're 573 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 2: going to heat up your hot water tank that you're 574 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 2: keeping your laundry or underneath your house. So the operating 575 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 2: costs of lower as well. So both are great, But 576 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 2: i'd give the tick of approval or the winner would 577 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 2: be the solar panels paired with an internal water tank system. 578 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: Okay, and the rebeats and incentives. 579 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 2: Similar similar, yes, similar, bit slightly higher for the solar panels. 580 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: Right, very good, okay, folks. I do hope that really 581 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: brings you up to speed on this issue. I know everyone, 582 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: many people are very interested in this issue. I find 583 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: the electric car story amazing, James. I must say, even 584 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: in the period we've been talking about it, how much 585 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: it's changed and how much it's going to change. And 586 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: if you had said to me even I remember asking. 587 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,959 Speaker 1: I remember telling someone that sooner or later they're going 588 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: to have coal mines powered by alternative energy. And I 589 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: remember this person just laughing, and that's come to pass. 590 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: If you had said to me three years ago, there 591 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: will be electric utes and they will be very popular, 592 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: that they'll be one of the biggest selling utes around, 593 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: I would have said, you must be kidding, and guess 594 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: what the Give someone a good deal and they will 595 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: move like lightning. I think they what's it called the 596 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: byd Uts. It's now the one of the biggest selling utes. 597 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, the Shark. I believe it is a shark. 598 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: That's right, Yes, that's right, that's the one. So there 599 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: you go. You see, it happens very quickly so you've 600 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: got to keep up to speed. And James Gerard, I 601 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: must say financial advisor, car geek and what Heart avelergy 602 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: expert's the ideal guest to have on the show today. 603 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: Thank you very much, James. 604 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. And don't forget whiskey collector as well. 605 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: Yes, sometimes we can almost see that we can peep 606 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: at that whiskey collection when he does across from home. 607 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: All right, lovely to talk to you. Keep those questions rolling, 608 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: everybody the money puzzle at the Australian dot com dot au. 609 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: Talk to you soon.