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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Monday, April thirteen, twenty twenty six. Australia's gas is

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Speaker 1: crucial to get us through the current oil crisis, according

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Speaker 1: to Anthony Albanesi, who'll visit Brunei and Malaysia this week

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Speaker 1: to secure Australia's fuel and fertilizer supplies. Iran still wants

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Speaker 1: a nuclear weapon and that's the sticking point in peace

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Speaker 1: talks with the United States after Vice President JD Vance

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Speaker 1: failed to get a deal over the weekend. Those stories

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Speaker 1: are live right now at the Australian dot com dot au.

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Speaker 1: How great is it when politicians throw tantrums for the

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Speaker 1: cameras And who's going to be first to lose their

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Speaker 1: job after the Kyle and Jackie O radio disaster at

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Speaker 1: ARN Steve Jackson's media diary editor, and he's here in

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Speaker 1: just a moment. Steve, I've already got April twenty four

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Speaker 1: in my diary after reading your contribution this morning. What's happening?

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Speaker 2: Oh, well, you could definitely lock that one in. We're

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Speaker 2: going to see the Kyle and Jackie Oh show return

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Speaker 2: for the first time in nine weeks. It's going to

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Speaker 2: be held in the Federal Court Building and they're going

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Speaker 2: to come face to face for the first time since

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Speaker 2: their last show and the whole program unraveled and their

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Speaker 2: contracts were down up.

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Speaker 1: This is going to be better viewing than when Antoine

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Speaker 1: Latouf had a stylist every day with a different outfit

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Speaker 1: for her case against the ABC.

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Speaker 2: I can't wait to see what they're wearing. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's going to be huge, and you know, typically people

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Speaker 2: don't always turn up to case management hearings. We've seen

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Speaker 2: already that Kyle is determined to use these opportunities to

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Speaker 2: talk to reporters out the front because you know, he

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Speaker 2: wants to be back on airs.

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Speaker 3: We've had blow ups before, her on me and me

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Speaker 3: on her. We just get over it. Yearsually, it feels

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Speaker 3: like I didn't do anything different than I've been doing

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Speaker 3: for twenty five years. Actually a little bit tamer than

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Speaker 3: most days, because I was actually quite concerned that, you know,

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Speaker 3: she's feeling good and everything's okay, and an argument did happen.

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Speaker 3: I think it was quite tame compared to how they've

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Speaker 3: been before, and it would have been something it would

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Speaker 3: have just been over and done with the next day

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Speaker 3: and the show would approved online normal.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't want to disappear, and we're going to see

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Speaker 2: hopefully Jackie there as well. Indications that this stage are

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Speaker 2: that she intends to attend. That's what I've been told,

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Speaker 2: but you know, it is still two weeks out.

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Speaker 1: Last time we had you on the front, we were

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Speaker 1: talking about the notion that ARM thought that Jackie was

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Speaker 1: going to be their star witness in their defense against

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Speaker 1: Carl Sandalance. Then she dropped a bombshell with her own

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Speaker 1: eighty two million dollar case against them, a fair work

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Speaker 1: complaint and also an accusation that they've engaged in misleading

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Speaker 1: and deceptive conduct by saying that they were offering her

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Speaker 1: another show on the network. She seems to be implying

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Speaker 1: in her statement of claim that that was not really

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Speaker 1: a genuine offer. Her statement is a really interesting insight

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Speaker 1: into the way she operates too. There's a lot of

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Speaker 1: emotional text messages being sent to senior executives at ARN

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Speaker 1: and her manager, and the responses that she was getting

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Speaker 1: from Derek Bagwana, who was the head of Kiss as well,

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Speaker 1: where he says things like, you know, Kyle really wants

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Speaker 1: to talk to you. He's lost a lot of weight lately.

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Speaker 1: He thought you might be interested.

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Speaker 2: Look, no one loves talking about anything more than when

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Speaker 2: they lose weight.

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Speaker 1: Well, now I can't wait to see what his body

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Speaker 1: shape is when he shows up in court.

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Speaker 2: What's he been eating? What's he not meaning nothing?

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Speaker 1: The stress has made him, you know, give up food or.

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Speaker 2: To get j he's off the gluten.

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Speaker 3: You're right though.

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Speaker 2: Ironically though, they are still going to rely on her

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Speaker 2: her claims to show that Kyle or to try to

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Speaker 2: prove that Kyle was behaving poorly and back up their

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Speaker 2: allegations of serious misconduct against him. Really bizarre situation has

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Speaker 2: everyone asking, as I'm sure they're having meetings in a dare,

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Speaker 2: and how can they win both? Because to win the

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Speaker 2: Kyle case, you've got to say, yeah, you're being terrible

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Speaker 2: to your co host Jackie. To win the Jackie case,

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Speaker 2: they're going to go, no, we weren't turning a blinder. Aye,

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Speaker 2: he wasn't being horrible to you. So it's this like

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Speaker 2: phenomenal catch twenty two is how do they win both?

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Speaker 2: And the suggestion is they might not win either.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really difficult dilemma. I think for management,

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Speaker 1: you've got these two sort of superstar talent, your greatest

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Speaker 1: asset as a broadcaster. You're certainly paying them as though

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Speaker 1: they are the greatest asset, even though they were going

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Speaker 1: very poorly in Melbourne, and one of them is raising

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Speaker 1: complaints against the other, and the complaints relate to the

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Speaker 1: kind of behavior that is on air gold and in

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Speaker 1: fact that in the past they had turned into fantastic

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Speaker 1: on air sigmas and funny.

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Speaker 4: You know, Kyle and I we've worked together for fourteen

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Speaker 4: years now. I think we've probably had I can count

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Speaker 4: in total, maybe three fights, and that was the third one.

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Speaker 4: I'd say the last one we had would have been

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Speaker 4: about six years ago.

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Speaker 3: Remember what it was about?

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Speaker 4: Oh, I can't even remember. It was something.

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Speaker 3: Stupid, But are you going off the handle about nothing?

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Speaker 3: What was it?

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Speaker 4: I think it was something really ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: That you always are.

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Speaker 1: They brought in a marriage counsel one point to resolve

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Speaker 1: a dispute between them.

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Speaker 2: And the interesting thing about that, and I think we're

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Speaker 2: going to hear a lot about this particular exchange and

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Speaker 2: that stunt where they brought in the marriage counselor because

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Speaker 2: that happened just months before Jackie started complaining. So that

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Speaker 2: happened a year ago. Fine with it, it's replayed. The suggestion

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Speaker 2: is it was used on social media and pumped up

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Speaker 2: is ah, this is one of our greatest skits of

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Speaker 2: the week. I suppose they call them raves or rants,

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Speaker 2: but it's pumped up is hey, this is our show

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Speaker 2: at its best. This is a gold moment. And then

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Speaker 2: months later, without any indication from what Kyle's saying, no

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Speaker 2: indication to him, that's all changed and that sort of stuff,

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Speaker 2: that part of the course, part of the show is

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Speaker 2: no longer to according to Jackie, and she doesn't like it.

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Speaker 2: Of course, she's allowed to mature. We all get older

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Speaker 2: and more sensible. But you kind of got to tell

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Speaker 2: the other guy, Hey, you know what you're saying. You know,

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Speaker 2: maybe I'm not okay with it anymore.

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Speaker 1: I've seen anyone enjoying a share price graph quite as

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Speaker 1: much as you have been over the past week, watching

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Speaker 1: ARN go down and down and down and down and down.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's been a few ups as well. I used

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Speaker 2: to like going to dream well when I was a kid,

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Speaker 2: couldn't get enough the roller coasters. Now it's the RN

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Speaker 2: share price and yeah, I can't get enough of it.

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Speaker 2: It's up, it's down. Every time I've been checking today

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Speaker 2: it's up five million. The market cap it's down five

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Speaker 2: million either way. All I know is I'm glad I

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Speaker 2: don't own any of their shares.

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Speaker 1: The market cap is, of course, the number of shares

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Speaker 1: out there in the market multiplied by the value of

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Speaker 1: those shares. They are themselves in a really poor state.

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Speaker 1: And what does that tell us, though, the fact that

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Speaker 1: the share price is low just means that people don't

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Speaker 1: have any faith at AARN is going to be able

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Speaker 1: to work this out.

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Speaker 2: I know that you have no faith in what the

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Speaker 2: share price means, because what does it really mean.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's gambling, as you've said before. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's people taking a pump on what's going to happen now.

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Speaker 1: I think it's probably a vote of confidence or no

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Speaker 1: confidence in the executives at RN. Terrible decision. Initially it

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Speaker 1: to offer these people one hundred million dollars each. There

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Speaker 1: was no competition there. Nobody else was going to offer

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Speaker 1: them one hundred million dollars.

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Speaker 2: Look, I had been thinking about going upstairs and saying, guys,

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Speaker 2: can I get a revenue share in one hundred million

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Speaker 2: dollar contract. You just get laughed out of any media

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Speaker 2: company in the country.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a made up figure that itself, I

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Speaker 1: think was a publicity stunt. They thought that the sales

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Speaker 1: revenue would come in to offset that, and that wouldn't

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Speaker 1: really even touch the sides. That's turned out to be

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Speaker 1: a disaster, and now their tactical decision making has been

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Speaker 1: very poor as well. What they really needed to do,

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Speaker 1: obviously back in February was get these two in a

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Speaker 1: room and say, at all costs, you guys have to

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Speaker 1: work it out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And the thing is, I think ideally it looked I

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Speaker 2: think you'd almost underestimate the abuse I'd received for one

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Speaker 2: hundred million dollars over ten years. Whatever Kyle had said,

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Speaker 2: they'd just be the tip of the iceberg for what

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Speaker 2: I'd accept. But also the thing is, tell me, like,

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Speaker 2: if we have a Barney and I say, oh, jeez

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Speaker 2: to our editor Claire, she's a nightmare to day though,

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Speaker 2: you know, does that actually is that the start of

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Speaker 2: an HR process or is that just venting or is

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Speaker 2: it letting off steam after twenty years together for it

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Speaker 2: to be regular chat and just go that's your guy's

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Speaker 2: regular banter, and you can see that in Derek Barguana's responses.

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Speaker 2: He's like, Ah, she's had a hard day, She's aid

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Speaker 2: a gutful of Kyle. We've got to imagine people who

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Speaker 2: work with Kyle have a gutful of him every other day.

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Speaker 2: He's a big personality. At what point do they go

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Speaker 2: these text messages are these complaints are something different? Because

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Speaker 2: it feels some of those messages are like he thinks

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Speaker 2: she's blowing off steam. Maybe because he's replying as you say, oh,

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Speaker 2: you know, Kyle wants to tell you about his diet.

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Speaker 1: It's like they.

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Speaker 2: Don't get in her mind all of a sudden, this

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Speaker 2: is different to her.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and in any hr, my observation is that the

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Speaker 1: two parties tend to be sent to mediation.

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Speaker 4: First.

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Speaker 1: First thing they do is try to get them into

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Speaker 1: a room and see can you guys work this out.

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Speaker 1: She's taken it way past that by saying I can't

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Speaker 1: work with him anymore. Dave respond by saying, okay, well

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Speaker 1: then he's not allowed to contact you. Presumably they thought

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Speaker 1: they were doing the right thing there, and also they

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Speaker 1: thought they're going to act the contract.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say, I don't think they think

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Speaker 2: they were doing the right thing. Maybe by themselves. And

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Speaker 2: I hadn't actually thought of it to you said it now,

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Speaker 2: But yeah, first step is, guys, let's have a chat

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Speaker 2: nowhere in the world. You go, oh, you guys have

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Speaker 2: had a Barney. All right, contract's ripped up, you're out

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Speaker 2: the door. I've never heard of that anywhere else before.

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Speaker 2: It's always all right, let's where's the where's the people

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Speaker 2: in culture person? And famously media cutting back editorial jobs

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Speaker 2: left front, So the only departments that are growing and

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Speaker 2: the people in culture departments there more of those people

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Speaker 2: every week. But for it to go from you've had

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Speaker 2: a Barney on air, you're upset. We're just tearing up

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Speaker 2: both your contracts and canning a top rating breakfast show

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Speaker 2: that Let's face it, whatever happens from here, they're not

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Speaker 2: going to be able to replicate the rating success that

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Speaker 2: show in Jordan Sydney. So they've torn up all the

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Speaker 2: revenue they were already having from there, because what are

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Speaker 2: they going to have some half hearted show with somebody

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Speaker 2: no one cares about. Yeah, there's a reason the good

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Speaker 2: will that came with that show that people will tuning in. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: how do you go from zero to one hundred? I

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Speaker 2: still can't wrap my head around it.

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Speaker 1: They've also created for themselves in the marketplace kiss in

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Speaker 1: expectation that at breakfast you're going to hear a lot

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Speaker 1: about anal sex and kind of light detectors. No one

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Speaker 1: else can really deliver that. I mean, no other talent

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Speaker 1: can kind of deliver that content successfully. So they're going

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Speaker 1: to have to completely pivot the way they entertained an audience.

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Speaker 1: One of their ideas is Carl Stefanovic. Do you hear

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Speaker 1: what will work? Well?

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Speaker 2: You know the thing about Karl is you one hundred

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Speaker 2: percent right? He has got the X factor. I've been

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Speaker 2: fortunate enough to produce some stories with Karl. You bring

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Speaker 2: him into a room and people like him. He works

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Speaker 2: in Queensland, he works in Sydney. They like him in

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Speaker 2: Melbourne more than Kyle. So he's a good safe choice.

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Speaker 2: But I say, is he too safe?

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Speaker 1: I mean, if we think about his YouTube show and

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Speaker 1: what he clearly wants to talk about, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: I guess the new right wing, you know, the right

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Speaker 1: wing populism and issues like vaccination mandates and immigration.

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Speaker 5: I saw those images of Ben Roberts Smith being arrested

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Speaker 5: taking off a plane and I was just shocked. It

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Speaker 5: didn't make any sense to me that someone would be

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Speaker 5: arrested in such a public fashion around as kids. That

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Speaker 5: to me was shocking.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's definitely got an audience out there for it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's at breakfast time on kiss though, I.

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Speaker 2: Don't know if it's an FM audience. Like FM audience,

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Speaker 2: what are those shows? Three people with annoying voices saying

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Speaker 2: someone got my name wrong when I ordered my coffee

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Speaker 2: this morning? Ring in if this has happened to you,

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Speaker 2: you know, like and I don't listen to a lot

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Speaker 2: of those shows, but they've got a very specific set

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Speaker 2: formula interviewing right wingers or conservative voices. As great as

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Speaker 2: that is, it's a niche audience. And when we're talking

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Speaker 2: about broadcasting, it's broad appeal. And there's a reason that

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Speaker 2: these FM stations don't delve into the politics a lot.

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Speaker 2: They veer away from the really divisive things, and that's

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Speaker 2: the zone of talkback where you've got angry old white men,

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Speaker 2: much like myself, yelling at the listeners and telling them

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Speaker 2: this is what the politicians have done wrong today, it's

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Speaker 2: a completely different format and they're not punctuated by pop

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Speaker 2: songs in the middle. So what Karl has done very

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Speaker 2: successful in his podcast isn't an FM radio show. So

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Speaker 2: when people go his podcast has been great, how popular

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Speaker 2: is he? That's great for his specific said audience, that

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Speaker 2: isn't an FM radio audience.

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Speaker 1: Someone else who definitely has the X factor in my

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Speaker 1: view is Liam Bartlett, a veteran television reporter now on

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Speaker 1: Channel seven Spotlight, and he's created a bit of attention

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Speaker 1: for his story as all the best veterans always do,

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Speaker 1: by showing up at a press conference in Canberra and

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Speaker 1: kind of picking a fight with Chris Bowen, the angriest

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Speaker 1: man in the National Capitol for he's the Minister for

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Speaker 1: Energy and of course he's holding the jerry can at

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Speaker 1: the moment for rising fuel prices.

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Speaker 6: One point during this crisis, do you put the flag

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Speaker 6: up and say listen, I'll resign and hand it over

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Speaker 6: to someone who is more competent.

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Speaker 3: It's a journalist behind you has a question.

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Speaker 6: I'm going to go to hurt Well, no, no, open. Look,

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Speaker 6: I've been trying to ask you questions. Now, why can't

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Speaker 6: you sit down and answer open, honest questions. I've held

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Speaker 6: a press conference every day. This is the first press

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Speaker 6: confidence you've been to ask me a question.

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Speaker 3: I've taken one question.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to do.

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Speaker 6: You have taken one question, and that's very brave. Okay,

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Speaker 6: that's very brave. I think you need to show a

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Speaker 6: bit more respect to your colleagues. This is a full

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Speaker 6: room of journalists. Everyone gets one question. Oh, I think

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Speaker 6: everyone here would like to know the answers. Actually, I

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Speaker 6: think everyone here would like to ask their own questions

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Speaker 6: behind you.

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Speaker 1: I don't know about your interpretation of this. In my view,

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Speaker 1: this is Chris Bown walking into Liam but Let's trap

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Speaker 1: Liam Butler.

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Speaker 2: There are a few people as good as Liam when

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Speaker 2: it comes to doing a let's face this stunt like this,

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Speaker 2: Chris Baron refusing to answer the question. I don't even

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Speaker 2: know what the question was. What are you afraid of?

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Speaker 2: Don't I spiders like? I don't know? And what was

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Speaker 2: this other question? When are you going to resign? And

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Speaker 2: he's demanding answers, but he owns that press conference. And

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Speaker 2: I tell you last week I made fun of Spotlight

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Speaker 2: for putting out a ridiculous promo where everyone look po face.

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Speaker 2: They look like the cast of Lea Misarabla. They were

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Speaker 2: so sad and wretched. Week on the new EP Ronnie Sadler,

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Speaker 2: extremely experienced long form journalist, comes in three days in

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Speaker 2: and they've put out this and they've owned the media

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Speaker 2: cycle for a day. Everyone's reading about Liam Bartlett, not

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Speaker 2: just that, everyone's talking about it, and you can see

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Speaker 2: reams of comments, Hey, Liam, we love your moxy. Finally

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Speaker 2: a real journalist. What's everyone else doing it? The love

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Speaker 2: for him has been sensational and it shows you. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: these programs under play how politically engage their audiences are.

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Speaker 2: And I know I've just mocked that in an FM

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Speaker 2: radio setting, but I think they don't realize how engaged

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Speaker 2: they are, particularly when it comes to hip pocket and

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Speaker 2: we're talking about petrol prices and renewable energies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, they certainly have I think a much greater

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Speaker 1: finger on the pulse of what people are thinking about

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Speaker 1: fuel prices than Chris Bowten does, as evidenced by his

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Speaker 1: inability to go Liam, So great to hear see you here,

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Speaker 1: great question. You know, Actually the transition to renewables is

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Speaker 1: going to help bring everyone's energy bills down and I

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Speaker 1: can't wait to talk to you more about it. Instead,

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Speaker 1: he kind of repeated his stunt from the election that

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Speaker 1: he helped lose a couple of cycles ago, where he said,

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Speaker 1: if you don't like Labor's policies, don't vote for us.

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Speaker 1: Well thanks, scoop.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're not going to.

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Speaker 2: And the bizarrest thing is he comes out a day later.

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Speaker 2: It's obviously not resonated well with him. He's rattled because

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Speaker 2: he comes out at his press comments the following day.

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Speaker 2: What's he talking about, Liam, Butlert anyone else? You kin't

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Speaker 2: of go? All right, I've had a bit of a

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Speaker 2: bar up with him. You move on the next day,

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Speaker 2: he's still going on about it, going, I can pick

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Speaker 2: and choose who I engage with. Oh, well, you know what,

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Speaker 2: Channel seven has a large audience. They win nationally in

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Speaker 2: the news, They've got the most popular breakfast and morning

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Speaker 2: shows on television. And you've got Chris Bowen coming out

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Speaker 2: and going, oh, I don't care about their audience. Well

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Speaker 2: maybe you should.

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Speaker 1: I think he thought he could turn the journals on

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Speaker 1: one another and turn them all on William.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't worry, We'll do that out selves, will

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Speaker 2: decide who we make fun of. Journos don't need any

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Speaker 2: encouragement to turn on each other. One thing that we

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Speaker 2: don't like is politicians thinking they can play us off

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Speaker 2: against each other and you know, be the pied piprin

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Speaker 2: make fun of Liam. I've read some media columns that

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Speaker 2: were surprised that Channel seven had a camera on Liam

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Speaker 2: Bartlett for it. I don't know what media they've been

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Speaker 2: working in where they don't realize that cameras are on

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Speaker 2: multiple angles. But there's a theater to it that I

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Speaker 2: reckon few people can pull off. Liam's obviously one of them.

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Speaker 2: And the fact that Chris Boyne is still talking about

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Speaker 2: Liam Bartlett shows you how rattled he is by it

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Speaker 2: and reinforces Liam was right.

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Speaker 1: He is scared well running. And Liam and the Team's

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Speaker 1: first show is on this coming Sunday. Spotlight's been off

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Speaker 1: air for a while. I'm looking forward to it. I'm

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Speaker 1: also looking forward to reading what else you've got in

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Speaker 1: the Diary today, Jacko, Thank you very much.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Steve Jackson edits the Diary in the Australians Media section.

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Speaker 1: It's live now and so is all the latest in news, business, sports,

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Speaker 1: politics and culture at the Australian dot com, dot au