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Speaker 1: It just kind of popped out. At least was talking

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Speaker 1: about IVF and I think we were quite connected just

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Speaker 1: in that moment as girlfriends talking to each other, and

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Speaker 1: I kind of said, very casually, Oh, if you haven't needed,

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Speaker 1: sorry that I could do that. You know, we went

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Speaker 1: to lunch to catch up that day. It wasn't something

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Speaker 1: that was in the back of my mind where I

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Speaker 1: was going Today's the day I'm going to offer. It

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Speaker 1: just kind of slipped out.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to separate bathrooms. I would like to

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Speaker 2: acknowledge the gadigal people of the your nation on which

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Speaker 2: we are recording this podcast, and paying my respects to

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Speaker 2: elders both past and present. I am not going to

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Speaker 2: be introducing my husband, Cam Daddo because he's not here.

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Speaker 2: It's just me and we're just going to have a

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Speaker 2: girly girl chat again today. You know when you were

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Speaker 2: just so close to someone, a best friend that you

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Speaker 2: share laughs, hurt, pain, everything with, maybe can share clothes

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Speaker 2: or shoes. Well, these two women have taken the friendship

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Speaker 2: to a level not many of us will ever experience.

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Speaker 2: Sarah Meganson lent her body to her dear friend Lisa

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Speaker 2: Messenger to have the thing she wanted most in the world,

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Speaker 2: a baby. This is a beautiful story of generosity, kindness,

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Speaker 2: and a long, wild journey, all intimately told through their

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Speaker 2: book The Power of Two, a life changing story of friendship, surrogacy,

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Speaker 2: and true connection. So before I chat with them, just

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Speaker 2: a little info on who they are. Lisa is She's

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Speaker 2: a vibrant, game changing founder and editor in chief of

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Speaker 2: The Collective Hub, a multimedia, cross platform movement to inspire

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Speaker 2: and educate. And Lisa has authored over forty books. She's

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Speaker 2: an incredible international speaker and a passionate humanitarian. And Sarah

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Speaker 2: is a lifestyle columnist and editor, and she's ghost written

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Speaker 2: or edited more than thirty books. An expert in finance

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Speaker 2: with twenty years experience, she's a regular media commentator on

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Speaker 2: a mission to make money easy, especially for women and kids.

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Speaker 2: They're good mates, They've got a story to tell. So

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Speaker 2: let's get them into the bathroom and find out more.

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Speaker 2: Please welcome Sarah and Lisa. So, Sarah and Lisa, welcome

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Speaker 2: to the bathroom, the separate bathrooms.

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Speaker 1: Thank you were so delighted to be here.

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Speaker 2: I'm thrilled to have you both on. Where are you

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Speaker 2: talking to us from? You're up north, aren't you.

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Speaker 1: I'm sunny Gold Coast, Oh yep.

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Speaker 3: And I am Bangalore inland from my own bay. We

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Speaker 3: are an hour and fifteen minutes away from each other geographically.

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Speaker 2: Oh are you still working with each other? Because you

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Speaker 2: were workmates that's how you met, right.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we worked on the book together, but that's about

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Speaker 1: where the professional relationship ends these days.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, Yeah, I think you're slightly above that now.

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Speaker 2: So tell us a little bit firstly about your friendship.

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Speaker 2: How did it begin with the two of you.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'll jump in first. I think the great thing

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Speaker 1: is when we reflected back on it when we were

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Speaker 1: writing the book, we realized that the very first time

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Speaker 1: we met, I actually had my eldest she's now fourteen,

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Speaker 1: but she was six months old at the time, and

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Speaker 1: it was my very first meeting with Lisa. I was

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Speaker 1: going to work with her on a property book. I

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Speaker 1: was going to be her editor, and I tried to

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Speaker 1: cancel the meeting because my baby sitter fell through and

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Speaker 1: I couldn't bring my baby.

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Speaker 3: To the meeting.

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Speaker 1: This was fourteen years ago. You didn't do such things.

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Speaker 1: You've pretended you didn't have children. So when I called

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Speaker 1: the office to say, Hey, I've got my baby, can

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Speaker 1: we just can we reschedule? Lisa said no, I just

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Speaker 1: bring your baby. That's fine, And that was kind of

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Speaker 1: just not the thing that was done back then. So

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Speaker 1: I very quickly realized that this person was going to

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Speaker 1: be not a normal you know, it's not going to

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Speaker 1: be a normal workman. And then when I met Lisa,

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Speaker 1: she was warm and lovely, and that was our very

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Speaker 1: first project we worked on together. Became the first of many.

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Speaker 1: We ended up working on dozens of books. Then Lisa

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Speaker 1: had her magazine. I worked on that, and we just

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Speaker 1: became really good friends over that time as well.

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Speaker 2: It's a little bit for telling, isn't it that you know, Sarah,

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Speaker 2: you arrived the first meeting with Lisa with a baby

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Speaker 2: in Towe. I mean, who would have thought many years later,

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Speaker 2: the journey that the both of you have been on.

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Speaker 3: It's pretty wild, Allie, and I think that's what we

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Speaker 3: reflect on a lot, and so much of why we've

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Speaker 3: written the book as well. It's much more than a

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Speaker 3: pregnancy book or a surrogacy or a fertility book. It's

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Speaker 3: much more around the themes of you know, friendship and

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Speaker 3: staying open and you never know people that you know

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Speaker 3: will enter your universe at any given stage in life.

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Speaker 3: And who would have imagined that thirteen years later Sarah

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Speaker 3: would be carrying my baby.

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Speaker 1: So Yes.

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Speaker 3: In terms about professional relationship, Sarah edited I think probably

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Speaker 3: the majority of the books that I I've written over

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Speaker 3: the years, and I think I'm up to thirty nine

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Speaker 3: or forty now, and also was one of my top

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Speaker 3: writers for Collective Hub prim magazine, And so we've been

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Speaker 3: in and out of each other's universes professionally, but also

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Speaker 3: have had many many personal intersections which we can get

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Speaker 3: into as well through the years. So by the time

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Speaker 3: we got to this point, we certainly knew each other

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Speaker 3: very well, although not quite as intimately as.

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Speaker 2: Young know each other, no doubt, no doubt. I love.

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Speaker 2: I was reading a bit of your book, just reminding

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Speaker 2: myself this morning, the prologue. I just love how it begins.

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Speaker 2: You say, Oh, you're right if you think this is

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Speaker 2: a fluffy, feel good book about having a baby, We're

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Speaker 2: sorry to disappoint. Fourteen years of friendship, eight years of trying,

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Speaker 2: eighteen rounds of IVF one baby boy. I just think

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Speaker 2: that sets you up for this incredible journey that the

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Speaker 2: both of you have been on. How did the conversation

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Speaker 2: first come up around surrogacy?

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Speaker 3: It was it we jumping and out. Sarah and I

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Speaker 3: are very much in each other's hands, and her body

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Speaker 3: has been my body, so we can probably each answer everything,

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Speaker 3: so I'll jump into this one. So the conversation first

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Speaker 3: came up in twenty eighteen and Sarah and I were

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Speaker 3: sitting in a rooftop cafe on top of the Paramount

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Speaker 3: Hotel in Surrey Hills, having lunch, as we did from

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Speaker 3: time to time, and I was a couple of rounds

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Speaker 3: into my IBF journey and Sarah just happened to mention,

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Speaker 3: which is pretty wild, you know, if you're ever interested

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Speaker 3: in surrogacy, like, I'd be kind of happy to carry

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Speaker 3: a baby for you. And I was like, wow, who

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Speaker 3: you know? I already knew she was all kinds of amazing,

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Speaker 3: but I was like, who actually says something like that?

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Speaker 3: So it was amazing, And but I think we all

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Speaker 3: need to come at things, you know, when we're ready.

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Speaker 3: And it was actually another four years that passed until

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Speaker 3: such time as we had the conversation again, and by

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Speaker 3: then I was kind of really really ready and had,

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Speaker 3: you know, experienced so many different avenues and paths to

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Speaker 3: trying to get pregnant myself, and I feel like sometimes

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Speaker 3: in life it's not like we just landed on, Hey,

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Speaker 3: how are you going today? You want to carry my baby?

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Speaker 3: Although finally the conversation was a little like that, But

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Speaker 3: I mean it did happen. It took eight years really

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Speaker 3: of me trying to for pregnant naturally, adopt a child,

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Speaker 3: having a miscarriage, going through two rounds of IVF with

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Speaker 3: donor sperm, meeting my current partner, going through a further

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Speaker 3: fourteen round of IVF with him a chill. I was

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Speaker 3: at a point where I was like, you know that

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Speaker 3: conversation you had four years ago, I'm kind of ready

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Speaker 3: for it now. So yeah, it was a lot and

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Speaker 3: a pretty extraordinaries, so I can jump in to that

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Speaker 3: piece perhaps.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think on that day when I offered it,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't being very thoughtful or intentional, which is an

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Speaker 1: odd thing to say when you're offering something so massive,

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Speaker 1: but I it just kind of popped out. Lisa was

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Speaker 1: talking about IVF, and I think we were quite connected

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Speaker 1: just in that moment as girlfriends talking to each other,

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Speaker 1: and I kind of said, very casually, Oh, if you

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Speaker 1: ever need a surrogate, I could do that. And it

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Speaker 1: was a genuine offer, but it wasn't you know, we

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Speaker 1: went to lunch to catch up that day. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: something that was in the back of my mind where

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Speaker 1: I was going, Today's the day I'm going to offer.

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Speaker 1: It just kind of slipped out and then straightaway Lisa

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Speaker 1: was like, Oh, that's so kind, but you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't think I'm there yet, and we I kind of.

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Speaker 2: Just pounshed it.

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Speaker 1: From then it was like a It was a little

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Speaker 1: conversation and then we didn't talk about it again for

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Speaker 1: four years.

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Speaker 2: And at that point, Sarah, how many you have three

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Speaker 2: beautiful children? How many kids did you had? I did

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Speaker 2: had when you offered to be a Sarah get it that.

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Speaker 1: I'd had all of my kids, and I'd had a miscarriage,

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Speaker 1: so I'd had my three children, and then I'd had

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Speaker 1: an accidental pregnancy that ended in miscarriage. And I think

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Speaker 1: because of that that really connected me even more to

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Speaker 1: this this unfairness, I guess with women who want to

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Speaker 1: have a baby and can't and I have my three beautiful, healthy,

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Speaker 1: amazing children, and here was my friend Lisa who desperately

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Speaker 1: wanted a child and the odds were stacked against her.

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Speaker 1: So that definitely kind of was probably the back of

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Speaker 1: my mind and prompted that question to pop out.

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Speaker 2: It never ceases to amaze me the the how many

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Speaker 2: women you know, this idea that you can just get

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Speaker 2: pregnant and you know, off you go. And some women

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Speaker 2: are like that, of course, but the amount of women

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Speaker 2: I don't know anyone who actually hasn't probably been trying

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Speaker 2: to get pregnant, had a miscarriage, has had a struggle.

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Speaker 2: It's not as easy as we all as the movies

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Speaker 2: kind of make us believe it to be.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's actually wild, I feel like. And that's part

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Speaker 3: of the reason, well, a large part of the reason

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Speaker 3: that we've written such a personal book is to really

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Speaker 3: share with people, because I think we're told, you know,

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Speaker 3: all through our twenties, be careful drug get pregnant, and

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Speaker 3: I think so we're all kind of got the fear

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Speaker 3: of you know, everything in us about oh my gosh,

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Speaker 3: I better not do this, And then I feel like

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Speaker 3: there needs to be a lot more education because since

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Speaker 3: we've started sharing our story well before the book was

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Speaker 3: even an idea really, and we started chatting to people

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Speaker 3: about it. The amount of people, I mean everyone really

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Speaker 3: either has been through some kind of fertility struggle themselves

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Speaker 3: or absolutely know someone who has. And I think what

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Speaker 3: would happen was people would come up to me or sayah,

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Speaker 3: and we'd share a little bit of our story, like

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Speaker 3: one on one with someone, and inever there would be

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Speaker 3: tears from them and us. And we just realized that,

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Speaker 3: oh my gosh. You know, Sarah and I are writers.

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Speaker 3: That is our language, that's how we process, that's how

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Speaker 3: we kind of put things out into the world. And

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Speaker 3: so we just thought, Okay, let's do this, and we

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Speaker 3: didn't realize just how personal we would get. But it

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Speaker 3: is all in there, and I think, or we think

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Speaker 3: and hope that it will impact and help so many people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure it will. These are eighteen rounds of IVF.

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Speaker 2: That is, I can't imagine the toll because it's people

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Speaker 2: don't understand it's a physical toll as well, with the

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Speaker 2: hormone injections, everything that you go through in order to

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Speaker 2: attempt that IVF process, How though emotionally and mentally, did

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Speaker 2: you deal with that? Because that is that is a

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Speaker 2: rollercoaster that is so wild and so challenging to be on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. I feel like I've almost somehow desensitized

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Speaker 3: myself from it now mentalized it, Yeah, but definitely writing

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Speaker 3: a book relived every moment. And then we recorded the

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Speaker 3: audiobook and I just was crying, going kind of like

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Speaker 3: empathy and compassion for myself going through all of that.

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Speaker 3: I think mindset is one of the biggest pieces because

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Speaker 3: and I've been writing books for twenty years actually this

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Speaker 3: month ironically in a way, and a lot of them

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Speaker 3: have been around mindset and overcoming adversity and positive psychology

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Speaker 3: and you know, so I've been teaching myself and doing

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Speaker 3: a lot of therapy for years and years and years.

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Speaker 3: I did sixteen rounds of IVF. Myself said it two rounds.

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Speaker 3: It does take a massive toll emotionally, physically, and financially,

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Speaker 3: and I think it's probably worth unpacking those a little bit,

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Speaker 3: either for people in the trenches or for people who

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Speaker 3: don't really understand the magnitude of it so emotionally, because

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Speaker 3: there are so many pieces around that. I think as

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Speaker 3: an innate problem solver and someone who just has had

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Speaker 3: my own business for twenty three years. I see something

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, well, yeah, I'll you know, if that

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Speaker 3: door doesn't open, I'll do that, or if I can't

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Speaker 3: do that, I'll do that. So I'm so used to

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Speaker 3: doing that, but when it's your body and it's sort

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Speaker 3: of largely beyond your control, emotionally, it takes a real

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Speaker 3: toll because a you know, firstly, I was petrified of

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Speaker 3: needles when I started this, and I've worked out I've

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Speaker 3: injected myself something like four hundred and eighty times. So emotionally,

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Speaker 3: it's a lot jumping on and off planes and stages

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Speaker 3: and things. So then you're flying around with needles and

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Speaker 3: medications that need to be kept on ice, and so

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Speaker 3: I need from doctors, and so emotionally, I was doing

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Speaker 3: a lot of a solo in hotel rooms for medications

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Speaker 3: you need to take for me. Protocols are slightly different

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Speaker 3: for everyone, but twice the day every day for sort

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Speaker 3: of sometimes ten days. Now that meant you can choose

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Speaker 3: any time eight am and apm ten am ten pm.

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Speaker 3: But because it goes for ten days, I might be

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Speaker 3: on a stage or you know, on a something something,

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Speaker 3: so I'm you know, inhaling things or injecting myself in

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Speaker 3: different bathrooms. Emotionally also, which jumps into the physicality of it.

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Speaker 3: I am someone from a mindset perspective who needs to train,

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Speaker 3: you know, like I move my body for my mindset

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Speaker 3: as much as for my body. And every single time

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Speaker 3: you put an embryo in, you're not meantor so my

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Speaker 3: clinic said, train or do any exercise or get your

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Speaker 3: heart rate up for two weeks after So sixteen times,

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Speaker 3: for two weeks at a time, thirty two weeks, I've

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Speaker 3: not been able to move my body. And then emotionally

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Speaker 3: and physically, it's like the two week waiting period of

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Speaker 3: you know, they put the embryo in and then it's like,

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Speaker 3: am I going to get pregnant? So sixteen times I

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Speaker 3: heard the words not this time, You're not pregnant this time.

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Speaker 3: So there's a whole lot of emotional and physical Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And financially IVF a wone in Australia costs between generally

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Speaker 3: for US anyway, ten to twelve thousand dollars per round

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Speaker 3: per round, and plus all of the other everything else

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Speaker 3: that goes around that. I mean, I had several polyps

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Speaker 3: removed and other operations and things throughout, plus I saw,

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Speaker 3: in conjunction with the IVF, a whole lot of different

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Speaker 3: natural paths and blah blah blah blah blah. So we

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Speaker 3: are very fortunate, and I do not take it lightly

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Speaker 3: that we are in a financial position that we could

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Speaker 3: do this. However, it has come with massive sacrifices for

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Speaker 3: both my partner, Stephen and I. We sold our family

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Speaker 3: home to fund it, and we're still in a pretty

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Speaker 3: big hole financially. Luckily we know how to make money,

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Speaker 3: but it took a big toll there as well. But

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Speaker 3: I did meet someone a couple of weeks ago who

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Speaker 3: said to me that she and her husband saved up

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Speaker 3: for ten years to do one round of IBF. So

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Speaker 3: I really don't take it lightly. We've been extraordinarily fortunate

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Speaker 3: that we've been able to do that. And I'll just

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Speaker 3: leave you with this. Stephen did say to me at

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Speaker 3: one point, you know, if we want a baby and

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Speaker 3: that is the end result, then it doesn't matter if

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Speaker 3: it costs a dollar or a million dollars, And it

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Speaker 3: certainly costs he certainly costs the latter, and little Hugo's

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Speaker 3: at work as we speak making the money back. But

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Speaker 3: I mean I think it's really important for anyone, Like

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Speaker 3: if there's something you want more than almost anything on

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Speaker 3: the planet, then you know you sacrifice anything.

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Speaker 2: H It's right, Yeah, I don't know if there's anything.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I wanted to be a mom from the

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Speaker 2: age of five, so I would have been doing anything

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Speaker 2: I could have possibly have done. Sarah, for you, what's

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Speaker 2: been some of the most challenging experiences. We'll get to

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Speaker 2: the rewarding experiences as well, but what was the challenging

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Speaker 2: experiences for you and being the surrogate for Hugo and Lisa.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think the physicality of it was really

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Speaker 1: different because I had my children when I was in

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Speaker 1: my I was twenty eight when I had my first daughter,

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Speaker 1: and in my early thirties when I had my next children.

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Speaker 1: So I found being pregnant at forty one was a

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Speaker 1: whole new experience. The physicality of it that, you know,

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Speaker 1: my body was older and I now had three children.

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Speaker 1: I kind of underestimated just how much energy it would

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Speaker 1: take to be working full time and have three kids

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Speaker 1: and be pregnant. But all of that was, you know,

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Speaker 1: in every step of it. You know, at the very beginning,

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Speaker 1: when I sat with my husband and said I'd like

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Speaker 1: to do this. We kind of ran through all of

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Speaker 1: those scenarios. We were like, what if, what if this happens,

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Speaker 1: what if that happens? What if you His big kind

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Speaker 1: of concerns at the beginning, where what if you get sick?

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Speaker 1: What if something happens to you? The law is really

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Speaker 1: clear in Australia that the mother's kind of life is

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Speaker 1: always the first priority. So that gave him some peace

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Speaker 1: of mind because he was like, what if something happens

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Speaker 1: and our kids end up without a mother? And I said, well,

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Speaker 1: you were never worried when I was pregnant with them

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Speaker 1: that I was going to suddenly die in childbirth.

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Speaker 2: I think, so why you can had a bit of

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Speaker 2: a scare though, like twenty six twenty seven weeks though,

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Speaker 2: didn't you?

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Speaker 3: We did?

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Speaker 1: We did, We had had a moment, but we I

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Speaker 1: think we ran through all of those things, like what

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Speaker 1: happens if I get sick? What happens if I'm I

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Speaker 1: have a friend who had a you know, a cervical

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Speaker 1: stitch at nineteen weeks and on bed rest for the

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Speaker 1: rest of our pregnancy. So we talked about all of

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Speaker 1: those scenarios and what happens if and when we were

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Speaker 1: doing that, there was nothing that we came to that

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Speaker 1: we decided, oh that's a deal breaker. Like there was

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Speaker 1: no scenario, no outcome that was so bad that we went, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: we can't risk that, so we're going to have to

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Speaker 1: pull out. Like every scenario that we came up with,

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Speaker 1: there was a solution to it, like if I get sick,

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Speaker 1: then I'll take some time off work. If I need support,

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Speaker 1: we'll have to get the support. Like we just kind

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Speaker 1: of worked through it all because I make decisions like this,

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Speaker 1: this is obviously really big one. But the way I

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Speaker 1: live my life is to always think in rocking chair moments,

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Speaker 1: and when I'm eighty and I'm on my rocking chair,

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Speaker 1: or maybe not even eighty, maybe, but when I'm on

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Speaker 1: my rocking chair and looking back at my life, you know,

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Speaker 1: what are the moments that are going to stand out

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Speaker 1: and that I'm really grateful for? And in the adventures

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Speaker 1: I had, in the times I said yes, and this

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Speaker 1: was definitely one of those. And there was there was

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Speaker 1: no negative outcome that was so big that it was

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Speaker 1: enough to say no.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, beautiful, And your husband was besides your you know,

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Speaker 2: the concern for your health? Was there was there ever

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Speaker 2: that concern that. I mean, this is probably a really

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Speaker 2: common question that a lot of mums or other women

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Speaker 2: might ask that you know, you would become so attached

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Speaker 2: to Hugo that you wouldn't want to then hand him

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Speaker 2: to Lisa, Like was that? I mean, how do you

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Speaker 2: work with that mindset? I guess you. I guess you

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Speaker 2: were already in it from the moment you offered.

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Speaker 1: You offered yourself, And I think that is probably the

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Speaker 1: most common question I get asked or and especially when

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Speaker 1: I was pregnant, when I would say to people it's

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Speaker 1: not my baby, it's my friend's baby. People would say,

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Speaker 1: oh my god. While I was like heavily pregnant, they

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Speaker 1: would say, what if you can't hand him over? And

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Speaker 1: I'd be like, well, it's a now wait here. But

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Speaker 1: really I knew going into it, and I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of you know, some of my friends said to

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Speaker 1: me like, I just couldn't. I just know that I

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Speaker 1: couldn't do it, And I'm like, that's great, you know

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Speaker 1: you should never be so yes, yeah, But for me,

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Speaker 1: I was really clear. We had great boundaries from the beginning,

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Speaker 1: and my husband actually suggested from the beginning, he said,

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Speaker 1: I won't come to the scans and appointments because he said,

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Speaker 1: the only time I've ever done that in the past

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Speaker 1: was for our children, and I don't know how I'll

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Speaker 1: react being there seeing a baby growing inside your tummy

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Speaker 1: and it's not ours. So let's just put that boundary

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Speaker 1: in place. That was fantastic and really helpful. He also suggested,

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Speaker 1: let's call it your pregnancy but Lisa's baby, and that

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Speaker 1: became a really great boundary from the beginning too. So

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Speaker 1: I would come home from the obstetrician and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: Lisa's baby's doing really well. It's sixteen weeks. You know,

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Speaker 1: we saw X y Z today And that kind of

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Speaker 1: words are so important, and that language really helped us

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Speaker 1: have really clear boundaries. And I also think the fact

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Speaker 1: that we explained everything to our kids, we kept them

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Speaker 1: so involved in all of it, meant there was no secrets.

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Speaker 1: There was no opportunity for anything to fester or to

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Speaker 1: you know, to get over a look. We were just

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Speaker 1: really open and communicating so constantly that there was no

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Speaker 1: there was no time that I was sitting there secretly pining, going,

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Speaker 1: oh Christmas, I wish we had another little baby under

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Speaker 1: the tree with us, because I knew the goal was

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Speaker 1: to get Lisa that baby, you know, that was what

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Speaker 1: we were focused on. So it was pretty clear bound

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Speaker 1: you and I didn't have to hand him over Lisa.

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Speaker 2: Card Lisa, were you there for every single scan?

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Speaker 3: Every single scan? Yes, And it was the most you know,

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Speaker 3: I think we have an amazing way of you know,

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Speaker 3: forgetting about hardships because I was seeing those nine months

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Speaker 3: or whatever it was together. We're just the most magical,

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Speaker 3: magical moments. And Sarah and I we would laugh and

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Speaker 3: we still do it. We would be either on a

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Speaker 3: FaceTime you know, when we were I was always physically

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Speaker 3: at the scans, but otherwise every single day we're the

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Speaker 3: facetiming on dming on Instagram or texting or calling and

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Speaker 3: often multiple things simultaneously. But yeah, I very much treated

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Speaker 3: it as my pregnancy, and so every single scan I

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Speaker 3: was say, what was beautiful and amazing about that is

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Speaker 3: And it's the weirdest thing, but all of those years

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Speaker 3: of trying to get pregnant, I had never let myself

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Speaker 3: go beyond what would happen when they said you're pregnant,

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Speaker 3: and so it was amazing having like the best girlfriend

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Speaker 3: in the room with obstitution because between her and doctor Drew,

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Speaker 3: they would explain to me because I was like, oh

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Speaker 3: my gosh, what now, what happens now? I would be like, well,

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Speaker 3: this is what we do because I know it sounds

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Speaker 3: kind of wild, wanting to be a month for so long,

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Speaker 3: but I just didn't know what happened beyond the moment

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Speaker 3: when they were like, you're pregnant. So Sarah really was

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Speaker 3: incredible having been there three times. Or she'd be like,

432
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 3: this is what we're doing now. So yeah, it was

433
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 3: I can't even explain how much fun, like seeing the

434
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 3: little heartbeat together, or you know, all of the things

435
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,440
Speaker 3: that we did together through that time was just so beautiful.

436
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 2: And of course, I mean the impact on your friendship

437
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 2: you can't put I don't know if there's any words

438
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 2: you can put to that is there is there any

439
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 2: words you can put to what that did to a

440
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 2: friendship that you know there you are sharing the most

441
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 2: miraculous thing that you can probably share.

442
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if I've ever felt as close to

443
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:37,959
Speaker 3: anyone in my life, although as grateful and just it

444
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 3: was just fun. It was like all of the previous

445
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 3: years of heartache and hardship and lost just almost disintegrated,

446
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 3: and that nine months kind of trumped everything and the

447
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 3: time since, I mean, it's actually beautiful, you know, it's

448
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 3: just it's all, it's all amazing.

449
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 2: What can you walk us through? So Okay, so you

450
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 2: go into labor, Sarah, and you're pretty sure it's labor.

451
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 2: I know you were. You had sort of a bit

452
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 2: of an oys this labor, you know earlier on, but

453
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 2: it wasn't. It was just a kidney infection. But what

454
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 2: you go into labor? What's your steps? Can you walk

455
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 2: us through?

456
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 1: Yes, I had I've obviously I've done it three times before,

457
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: so I was pretty sure when I was in labor.

458
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: And the false start you're talking about was when I

459
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 1: had a kidney infection at twenty seven weeks and I

460
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 1: knew I wasn't in labor, but it really hurts, and

461
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: I was like, I've got this excruciating pain, but it's

462
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 1: not coming from the right place. When I knew I

463
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: was in labor, it was quite surreal because I woke

464
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 1: up at midnight, it was exactly midnight, and I felt

465
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: a click and I felt a gush of water. Anyone

466
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: who's ever had a water break moment, knows what that's like.

467
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 1: I'd always wanted one of those movie moments where you're

468
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 1: like at the shops and you have a big gush

469
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 1: and it's all crazy and everyone's like, oh my god.

470
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: I always wanted one of them. I'm so dramatic, but

471
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: I never had one. So this was just a little

472
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: moment in the middle of the night, and I lay

473
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: there for a couple of minutes, going is this happening?

474
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: Because it wasn't like previous times where I just nudged

475
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: my husband and say let's go. This time, I was like, so,

476
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: we have to call my mum to come over and

477
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 1: watch my kids. We have to call the obstitucian to

478
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: let him know to come. We have to call his

479
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 1: parents to let them know they're about to become parents.

480
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,120
Speaker 1: So I kind of lay there for a minute, going

481
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: is it happening? And then a contraction started and I went, oh, yep,

482
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: it's happening. So then everything started From that point. That

483
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 1: was midnight and Lisa caught him at three point thirty eight,

484
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: so it was less than four hours from that moment

485
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: to him arriving.

486
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: So fast.

487
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 3: She's fast, and we knew. We were always prepared Sarah. Yeah,

488
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 3: when it's silent and silent so stupid, right, even though

489
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 3: we only live like an hour and fifteen away from

490
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 3: Sarah and similar to the hospital we came up a

491
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 3: week before. He was juicer that we want very close

492
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 3: close enough for me. But the funny thing is we

493
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 3: did like a stretch and sweep on the Wednesday, which is,

494
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 3: you know, meant to sort of try and induce labor,

495
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 3: and then nothing. And so every night Tuesday night, Wednesday night,

496
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 3: Thursday night, I packed and unpacked and I was like

497
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 3: so ready and hypervigilance. Yeah, by Friday, we're Steven and

498
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 3: I were saying the QT. And by Friday we were like, okay,

499
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 3: let's all have Sarah, David and the three kids and us.

500
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 3: Let's just have a beautiful weekend, buy the pool. Clearly,

501
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 3: h goes not ready to make his presence no one

502
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 3: into the world, and we were going to have it.

503
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 3: We're going to be induced the following Tuesday. So Friday

504
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 3: night I didn't pack and I was just like very

505
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 3: kind of you know, oh well, and then midnight or

506
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 3: just after, we get the call from David and he's

507
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 3: he's a radio announcer and sorry in the radio voice

508
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 3: that was like, this is the call you'll be wedding. God,

509
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 3: you're nary to me, yes, oh by this this is it.

510
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 3: And so we just raced but it all happened really fast,

511
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 3: and so it was the most beautiful, amazing thing. And

512
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,360
Speaker 3: also there were some very comical moments because Sarah had

513
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 3: never had I mean, she's like some kind of superhero

514
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 3: in so many ways, but she'd never had a what

515
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 3: are they called the thing.

516
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 2: The jupy dural no.

517
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: Labor too fast.

518
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, so she never had an appy durol And then

519
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 3: this time we were in the shower and so I

520
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 3: was like, I think I might have an appy dural

521
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 3: this time. So she had one, but it didn't kick

522
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 3: in until about I don't know, maybe forty minutes or

523
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 3: some after Hugo was born.

524
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: So oh, she was like.

525
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 3: We were like lying opposite her with Hugo on our

526
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 3: chests and says, leg kept falling off the bag. She

527
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 3: had control, and she kept me like can you pick

528
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 3: up my legs? Like picking her leg back up onto

529
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 3: the bed. And the comical thing is someone had grabbed

530
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 3: one of our phones, thank goodness, and been taken taking

531
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 3: all the photos, and there is a photo of me

532
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 3: with my hand on Sarah's shoulder because there's a clock

533
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 3: above the bed at three point thirty four am. And

534
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 3: then he goes born at three thirty eight am. So

535
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 3: it happened. She was like, he's coming, and doctor Drew

536
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,239
Speaker 3: Obstitution was outside eating cheese and biscuits, and it was

537
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 3: like on and again I thought, oh, I'll you know,

538
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 3: I've got my beautiful bikini on. I'm gonna, you know,

539
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 3: wash my hands. I'm gonna look hot and amazing. And

540
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 3: it's a broom and like no hand washing. I'm still

541
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 3: in some woolen jumper. And doctor Drew is like biscuits

542
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 3: coming out of his mouth. He's like hat. And then

543
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 3: there was my baby, my oh.

544
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: Gosh, oh how I mean? And then so that moment

545
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 2: where he lays on your ch Lisa, what was that

546
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 2: like for you?

547
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 3: You can't I get so emotional because it's like, oh,

548
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 3: so many things, because I think Ali I had this

549
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 3: thought that I don't know where it's from the movies

550
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 3: or something, that he would be ripped away from me

551
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 3: and like taken into another room to be like weighed

552
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 3: and washed and something and so but literally I was

553
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 3: the first person to hold him and the only person

554
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 3: to hold him. And then we had very specifically said

555
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 3: can we have a sofa bed opposite Sarah's bed so

556
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 3: we could lie down and I could have the same

557
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 3: experience as I would if I had of birthed him.

558
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 3: And yeah, no one took him away. He came straight

559
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 3: and lay on my chest and it's like, I just

560
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 3: I can't even Yeah, like the most amazing thing. And

561
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 3: then as soon as you know, we'd had a little

562
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 3: cuddle and Saya had been stitched up, I took Hugo

563
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 3: over and put him on stairs chest and just like

564
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 3: that moment together was just so beautiful. And for Stephen

565
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 3: and he's always a bit like, hey how about me,

566
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 3: because I'd be like, in a way, Sarah, I like

567
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 3: got so much closer throughout that whole time than Stephen,

568
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 3: and I sure, and I couldn't wait to run over

569
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 3: there and be like, look at our baby.

570
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I know. Did Stephen cut the cord?

571
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 2: Did he do that?

572
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 3: He did cut the cor yeah, And he was really

573
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 3: squeamish about that. He was almost like why do I

574
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 3: get that job? And he was determined that Hugo you know,

575
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 3: come to me first. So he did cut the cord.

576
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 3: And the funny thing is Ali the last few days,

577
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 3: he goes his what's today's date? He's fifteen months in

578
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 3: two days as we're recording this, and he's just outed

579
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 3: like being really fascinated about bodily body types or body bits,

580
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,959
Speaker 3: and I just started pointing to my belly button and

581
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 3: his belly button like literally two days ago. Okay, so

582
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 3: I keep saying, you know, that's where Daddy cut you

583
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 3: away from. Sarah. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty wild, Sarah.

584
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: For you, how has it been watching your dear friend

585
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 2: with Hugo, you know, knowing that this is the gift

586
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 2: that you've given to Lisa and Steven.

587
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's so interesting. The journey has been

588
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: incredible from the beginning. And the main feeling for me

589
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 1: when he was born was relief because I so wanted

590
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: to be the peace of the puzzle that helped them

591
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: get this beautiful baby that they'd been longing for. And

592
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: I can remember the feeling when he was out was

593
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: just like absolute relief flooded me. The double I never

594
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: have to give birth again and they have their beautiful baby,

595
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: and it was like it was like a literal and

596
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: you know, hypothetical, like passing of the bat, like I'd

597
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: done my job and now here you go. And I

598
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,479
Speaker 1: think a lot of women can resonate with this idea

599
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: that a pregnancy feels like you're coming to a finish line.

600
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: And you give birth and then you have a baby,

601
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: it like starts again. This whole new world starts again.

602
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: And it's been amazing from Afar watching them, you know,

603
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: just sink into parenthood and they're both amazing parents, so

604
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: loving and doting, and he is just an adorable little man,

605
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: and my kids get along really well with him. It's

606
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: beautiful to kind of just see their relationship grow as well.

607
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: They call him their brotheren, their brother cousin, and it's

608
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: really nice to have that beautiful young energy around again.

609
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: I think I'm in such a different phase of parenting.

610
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: You know, my kids are teenagers and pre teenagers, and

611
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: Hugo's one and running around. It's a whole different ballgame.

612
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 3: And there's so many dualities, which has been fascinating, like

613
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 3: which so many people wouldn't think about. But just a

614
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 3: few little things like when Sarah was carrying Hugo, she

615
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 3: was obviously pregnant, so people would be like, oh my gosh,

616
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 3: you're pregnant. Congratulations, So she was constantly having to say, oh, yes,

617
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 3: but it's not my baby. And then I would say

618
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 3: because I always felt like I was pregnant, so I'd

619
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 3: be like, oh my gosh, I'm seven months pregnant and

620
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 3: people would be like, wow, are you really well? And

621
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 3: then things around the bath. Like Sarah said, I was

622
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 3: able finally to get like my fittest, strongest, healthiest self

623
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 3: ready for when the baton was passed, so that would be,

624
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 3: you know, my strongest version of me for HUGO. So

625
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 3: where Sarah could actually have the baby and then be like, well,

626
00:34:54,480 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 3: I was going to say relaxed, You're right, yeah, I'm

627
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 3: so open, but like this, Yeah, there's so many different

628
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 3: sort of things going on all the time which people

629
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 3: often wouldn't necessarily consider.

630
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess the one thing that you probably were

631
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 2: able to do, Sarah was actually go home and sleep,

632
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 2: which is probably Lisa, you didn't.

633
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 3: Not well, actually you born Sarah. That was the plan,

634
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 3: and she said to her kids like, Okay, mom's going

635
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,280
Speaker 3: to take some time off. But kids don't really They're like, Mom,

636
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,399
Speaker 3: I want there's mom. I don't think I've worked out

637
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 3: quite how she I.

638
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: In my head, I thought my work was really amazing

639
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:41,800
Speaker 1: and gave me six weeks of leave to recover. And

640
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: in my head, I thought six weeks, I'm like not

641
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: going to know myself. Six weeks off with no baby,

642
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: I'm just going to relax, and like, honestly, what was

643
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: I thinking. I was in a hormone I don't know,

644
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: mental phase, but I ended up. I think out of

645
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: that six weeks, I had one day where I didn't

646
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: have a medical appointment or my kids weren't sick. I

647
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: had one day of rest. No, that is the plight

648
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: of a working mom. I was delusional. I think it

649
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 1: was going to be anything.

650
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 3: I was spending quite a lot of time together whenever

651
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 3: we could through that time as well, Like I think

652
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 3: when we left the hospital, because we had two rooms

653
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 3: next to each other for four days, so it was

654
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 3: like yeah, beautiful, big gloving, and we left, it was

655
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 3: a bit like no. So like three days later, I

656
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 3: think it's three days later, Sarah, David and the kids

657
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 3: came down, and yeah, we were a bit inseparable as

658
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 3: much as possible through that time.

659
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,879
Speaker 2: If it's if it's okay to ask, did you how

660
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 2: did you work the did you breast? Did you use

661
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 2: breast milk Lisa, or did you go straight to formula

662
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 2: or no?

663
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:51,240
Speaker 3: And it's fine to ask, and it's fascinating. So I

664
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 3: was told that there is a protocol that you can

665
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 3: use to induce breast milk, even though I've not carried

666
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 3: my own baby. But what that would entail was something

667
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 3: like going on the pill for like four months in

668
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 3: the lead, which just seemed so wildly ironic for me

669
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 3: that I'd spent all this time off the pill pregnant,

670
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 3: and then on top of that, I'd also have to

671
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 3: go on another hormone and Alie, to be honest, after

672
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 3: eight years of hormones and pumping myself full of whatever.

673
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 2: Your body didn't know I was doing that.

674
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, but the wild thing is and nature versus nurture,

675
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 3: nature versus nature, whatever whatever you want to call them.

676
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 3: But my left breast actually started producing milk so not.

677
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 3: I think it's because I always carry Hugh. His head

678
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 3: was always on the left side of me from the

679
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 3: get go. That's just the way that I carried him.

680
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 3: And I think my breastless to be like, Okay, it's on.

681
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 3: It's a little munch here who wants to lunch. So

682
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 3: that was pretty wild. So I did put him on

683
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 3: my boob a little bit, but it just I don't know,

684
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 3: I just well, Also, there's a bit of a selfish

685
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 3: reason around this. Stephen doesn't need a lot of sleep,

686
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 3: and he's like for ours sleep at night, and I

687
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 3: love my sleep. So putting him on a bottle also

688
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 3: meant that Stephen, God love him, was able to do

689
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 3: the majority of the night feeds. So yeah, so we

690
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 3: pretty much went to bottle.

691
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 2: So is that an actual So without taking any hormones,

692
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 2: your body started to create breast milk. Yeah, yeah, that

693
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 2: is amazing.

694
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:36,800
Speaker 3: It's amazing.

695
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 2: Women's bodies are incredible.

696
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 3: And I think it's a little bit of a medical phenomena.

697
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 3: And I feel quite proud because I remember when Meya

698
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 3: Fried when interviewed Sarah and I early on on her podcast,

699
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 3: and she was like can you do this? And then

700
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 3: she was like, oh, well, of course you'll be able to, like,

701
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 3: you know, because I'm like the groun over a cheaverer.

702
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 3: I always find a way to do it right. Proud

703
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 3: when you know, never for a moment thinking my body

704
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 3: would actual do it. I was like, huh loo, can

705
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 3: we go? I think you're right, though. It is extraordinary

706
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 3: how connected I felt to my pregnancy and Sarah and

707
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 3: I are very big on languaging, as you might have noticed,

708
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 3: but throughout and it is extraordinary how in sync our

709
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 3: bodies were at various times, like crazy kind of stuff

710
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 3: would happen. So whilst I was surprised, I also wasn't

711
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 3: surprised in a way.

712
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're finding out more and more about breast milk.

713
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 2: I was reading something the other day how the antibodies

714
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 2: in breast milk actually adjust to the babies. If the

715
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 2: baby is ill, the antibodies will actually adjust in order

716
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:56,439
Speaker 2: to give the right antibodies to that baby as they're

717
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 2: to help them heal whatever they're if they're you know,

718
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 2: some kind of illnes I mean, it's extraordinary.

719
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: You can see the different color actually in women who

720
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: I've never had any luck expressing, but women who express

721
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: the color of the milk changes. It changes depending on

722
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: the kids, if they're sick, it changes as they get

723
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: older and the nutrients they need a different It is

724
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: absolutely incredible. Our bodies are amazing. And the flip side

725
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: of that was my milk actually came in. I did

726
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: everything I could to avoid it. I took medication and

727
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: I strapped myself. And about five days after he was born,

728
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 1: it came in in a big way, and I called

729
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 1: the obstetrician and I was like, what do I do

730
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 1: because I've been so much pain. You know, anyone that's

731
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,280
Speaker 1: done it knows they just fill up and it's rock hard.

732
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 1: And he said, do not touch them, do not get

733
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 1: any hot water on them. And I was like, are

734
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 1: you kidding me? All I want to do is go

735
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 1: have a shower and just like relieve the pain. And

736
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: he said, no, you can't touch them. You can't stimulate

737
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 1: them at all because that will just produce more milk,

738
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,240
Speaker 1: because that's what you know, what happens with the baby.

739
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 1: So I had to wear like a double sportspra for

740
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: about two weeks to just strap.

741
00:40:59,000 --> 00:40:59,879
Speaker 2: It all the ground hole.

742
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,240
Speaker 1: It's incredible. Two weeks later it had all just settled

743
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: down and gone away, just absorbed back into your body,

744
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: Like what an incredible.

745
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 3: She did try to because we were going to use

746
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 3: the colostrum, so said, I did try and.

747
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: Express that never have luck with express, did I?

748
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 2: Actually?

749
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 3: Yeah? But we decided to not go any further than

750
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 3: that sort of you know, draw the bloundary around all

751
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 3: of that kind of thing.

752
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 2: So at what point do you decide, Okay, this is

753
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 2: a book. Was this pre even getting pregnant, Sarah, or

754
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 2: was it like what what do you both decide this is.

755
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:47,240
Speaker 1: I mean not before getting pregnant, but certainly from really early.

756
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: Lisa and I both process our worlds through writing. I've

757
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 1: always been a writer and a journalist, so really early

758
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 1: in the pregnancy, I was journaling the thoughts and feelings

759
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 1: around it. And the more the more that we shared,

760
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 1: the more that people kind of reached out, and the

761
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 1: more that we realized there was a story in it.

762
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,760
Speaker 1: And Lisa, Lisa is always an open book with her life.

763
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 1: She's written lots of books about different parts of her life.

764
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 1: So we're kind of quite early in the pregnancy thought

765
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 1: that there was an idea here, but we then kind

766
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 1: of parked it a little bit while we focused on

767
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: the pregnancy tours. And when I was almost due with

768
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: him was when we really kind of solidified it and went,

769
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: let's let's do something with this.

770
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's a few pieces around that. Yes, my

771
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 3: life has been quite literally an open books. Something happens,

772
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 3: you know, I share about it, and you share the

773
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 3: lessons learned and help people to apply it to their

774
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 3: own lives. And Stephen is extraordinarily on me private. Sarah,

775
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,439
Speaker 3: David and I lead relatively public lives in a way,

776
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 3: but Stephen is, you know, extremely private and never wants

777
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 3: to share anything about anything. And so but it was

778
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 3: actually him who said you should do this or you

779
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 3: should start sharing, because he realized early on the impact

780
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 3: and it was having on people and just how much

781
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 3: we could really help people. It's funny we did a

782
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 3: we signed a deal a month before Hugo.

783
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 1: Was born a week actually that was a week before.

784
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then but we didn't so that was July

785
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three. He was born on the twenty second

786
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 3: of July, and we didn't have to deliver the manuscript

787
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 3: un till February. And it's funny because by then I

788
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 3: had Hugo for quite a long time, and I started going, oh,

789
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 3: do I really want to share this, like we're just

790
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 3: having such a beautiful time. Part of me get like

791
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 3: all of this eight years prior and everything, but it

792
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 3: was such a beautiful thing writing it together Sarah and

793
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 3: I sat opposite each other and in a in a

794
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 3: shared Google document, and we just tiptoed off each other

795
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 3: the whole time. And it was so beautiful. And yeah,

796
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 3: I think it's going to help so many people. I

797
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 3: did say I'd never write I've written two very very

798
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 3: very personal books before, and I swear I would never

799
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 3: write another personal book. But I think it must help

800
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 3: so many people, so I'm happy to put it out there.

801
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 3: And also for you though, you know, like we were

802
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 3: very conscious that, you know, are we sharing too much?

803
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 3: Is this the right thing to do by him? But

804
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 3: I think it's beautiful that his journey is documented.

805
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 2: Oh I mean, imagine when he's out of an age

806
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 2: where he can read that book and know what you

807
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 2: went through because you know the obviously, yeah, details get fuzzy,

808
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 2: but of course you've put so much into the book

809
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 2: and to be able to read that about how desperately

810
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 2: wanted this little boy is and was you know, is

811
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 2: such a treat such a treat for him? I'm sure

812
00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 2: is there something that you found Is there sort of

813
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 2: advice for people in the sense of things not to

814
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 2: say to people going through your experience? I'm sure you've

815
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 2: had lots of people weigh in on it. Is there

816
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 2: something that you would rather people not say to either

817
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 2: of you?

818
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. In fact, we share almost a chapter I think

819
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 3: Sarah in the Book of Experiences around what not to say,

820
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 3: and I think people are well meaning for the most part.

821
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 3: And it's also what's become very much. You know, our

822
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 3: normal isn't normal for everyone, and I think people are

823
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 3: quite fascinated. And also if we choose to share this

824
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 3: part of our lives, then you know, we are also

825
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 3: opening ourselves up for lines of questioning. There are a

826
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 3: lot of things around well, the one thing that I

827
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 3: got asked every single time, which I won't share what

828
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 3: the answer is on here, but every single time when

829
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 3: I said, you know, my friend is carrying my baby,

830
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 3: people would be like, oh, is it your egg? Like

831
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 3: every single time, which was really jarring because I was like, whoa,

832
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 3: So that kind of yeah, other things I would say

833
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 3: around IVF, for sure, everyone has an opinion and it's

834
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 3: people will say things like, oh, well, just relax more,

835
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 3: or well, of course you can't get pregnant, look at

836
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 3: your lifestyle. But I mean that lifestyle fair enough and

837
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 3: probably right to a certain degree. But my lifestyle of

838
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 3: on and off plane speaking. I get paid a lot

839
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 3: of money to speak, and I was like, something's got

840
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 3: to fun this, ibff, It's not gonna yourself. So I

841
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 3: think what I always say is, you know, offer, I'm

842
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 3: open to feedback from people with actual experience in an area,

843
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 3: but actually a lot of it isn't helpful, Like have

844
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 3: you tried this? Yep, I've tried that probably seventy times,

845
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 3: thank you. So yeah, I think there's a lot.

846
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course.

847
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 1: I think Least is right in that most people are

848
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: well intentioned, and also we're very clunky when trying to

849
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: make people feel better, and we don't mean to be,

850
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: so we say clunky things sometimes. And I had this

851
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: experience when my dad died, and lots of people were

852
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: trying to be well meaning. So I always took their

853
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 1: intentions and the kindness with what they were trying to say.

854
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: But when people say things that start with at least,

855
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: almost anything that comes after that is really diminishing. At

856
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: least he's out of pain now, or at least he

857
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: got to be in his or he was seventy nine.

858
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: At least he made it to seventy nine. When I

859
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: had a miscarriage. You know, people would say, oh, at

860
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: least you've got other children. When someone said at least

861
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: you don't have to stay up all night and change

862
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: poe nappies, and I was like, oh, but I really

863
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 1: wanted to exactly, I really wanted the nappies. And people

864
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,720
Speaker 1: are really well intentioned, they're trying to make you feel better,

865
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: But what you really want in those moments is for

866
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 1: just someone to say, you know, are you okay? And

867
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 1: what can I do for you? Do you need anything?

868
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 1: Can I give you a hug? Can I drop a fullasagna?

869
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: You just want people to show up.

870
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 3: And actually we went one layer deeper in the book

871
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 3: because it's something it's a great question. Sarah and I

872
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 3: really reflect about it, and part of what we came

873
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 3: up with because our dad's actually died, which we talk

874
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 3: about in the book, that we've had lots of shared experiences.

875
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 3: They died three months apart to the day, and so

876
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 3: we went, you know, we kind of unpacked what had

877
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 3: happened around that as well, and what we decided for

878
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 3: both of us and so many people around us was

879
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 3: sometimes just do the thing like don't ask or you know,

880
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,359
Speaker 3: saying every day, are you okay, are you okay? It's

881
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 3: kind of like, yep, no, I'm not okay, But like

882
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 3: so sometimes just drop the lasign your over or just

883
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:50,720
Speaker 3: do the thing take.

884
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 2: And it's like when someone says what do you need

885
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 2: in that moment, you don't know you need. You're so

886
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 2: deep in grief.

887
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: And it becomes another thing. I actually just had one

888
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 1: of my best girlfriends just lost her mum recently and

889
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 1: it was horrible and very fast and when it happened,

890
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 1: I just showed up literally in Melbourne. I just turned

891
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: up when she needed me. But also the worst thing

892
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:20,879
Speaker 1: in those moments can be someone saying what do you need?

893
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: How can I help? Because you were in the worst

894
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 1: phase of your life and now you're having to show

895
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: up for someone else. So what you really want from

896
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 1: someone is not let me know what you need from me.

897
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,280
Speaker 1: You just need simple answers. Do you want a lasagna

898
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 1: or a spark role like not what do you want

899
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,760
Speaker 1: for dinner tomorrow? Or how can I help with your kids?

900
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 1: But I'm available Saturday. Do you want me to come

901
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: and do your laundry for you or take the kids out?

902
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,760
Speaker 1: Like just give people some just show up with support

903
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: because if the person doesn't want it, they'll just write

904
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: back and say thank you so much, I'm awkward for

905
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: this weekend, but I appreciate you, and it will register

906
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: that you've offered it, and they'll reach out if they

907
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: need it. But we can accidentally kind of be add.

908
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 2: To people stuff.

909
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 1: It was just like I felt like I had all

910
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,359
Speaker 1: these tabs open, a really beautiful well meeting friends who

911
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: would check in, how's your dad going. I'd be like,

912
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,760
Speaker 1: he's still sick, still dying, We're still at the hospital

913
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: every day. And it built up in my head as

914
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 1: all these people I had to reply to and you

915
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: get to a point where you just abandon it. But

916
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: you know, all of those people were really trying to

917
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 1: be helpful and support me and love bomb me, but

918
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 1: instead it can sometimes feel like another burden to carry.

919
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 1: So you know, just showing up for people can be

920
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 1: as simple as saying I'm thinking about you, and you know,

921
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: reducing your burden.

922
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 2: I love that. That's great advice. Well, you certainly showed

923
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 2: up for Lisa, and Lisa, you're clearly showing up for Hugo,

924
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 2: your beautiful little one. I just wanted to ask one

925
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 2: more question, how how how do you describe each other

926
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 2: in one word? What would be one word to describe

927
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 2: each other with?

928
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 3: Well, Sarah, I'm just going to say angel.

929
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:09,879
Speaker 1: Lisa I would say tenacious. Yes, this literally never gives

930
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:11,240
Speaker 1: up in any respect.

931
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 2: Ah. That's incredible. Lisa and Sarah, thank you so much

932
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,359
Speaker 2: for your time. The book is called The Power of Two,

933
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 2: a life changing story of friendship, surrogacy, and true connection.

934
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 2: What an incredible story. It's a beautiful book. And as

935
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 2: you say, it's what's and all. It's a hell of

936
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 2: a journey that you've been on and but congratulations, you're here.

937
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:39,280
Speaker 2: You've done it, and baby Hugo is thriving, and so congratulations, thank.

938
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 3: You, thank you, thank you so much for having us.

939
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 2: Sally, Yeah, our pleasure.