WEBVTT - Credlin | 20 October 0:00:02.050 --> 0:00:06.680 Peter Cridland, live from News 24. 0:00:07.850 --> 0:00:10.070 Good evening. Welcome to the program. Here's what's coming up 0:00:10.130 --> 0:00:13.020 tonight on Credlin. We'll get you the latest update on 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:17.000 the health of critically injured Federal MP Helen Haynes, and 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:20.700 we'll discuss the rise of politically motivated violence more broadly, 0:00:21.180 --> 0:00:23.880 from the chaos we've seen in Europe to the attack 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:28.430 yesterday on the streets of Wangaratta. Where to next for 0:00:28.450 --> 0:00:32.229 a country like Australia? The always insightful John Anderson, former 0:00:32.270 --> 0:00:35.830 Deputy Prime Minister, will join me for his analysis... on 0:00:35.870 --> 0:00:39.370 a very difficult couple of days, plus questions over the 0:00:39.409 --> 0:00:43.060 government's censorship push and how it might use this senseless 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:47.620 attack yesterday as a lever to push through its digital reforms. 0:00:48.380 --> 0:00:51.320 We'll also speak with former AFP officer David Craig on 0:00:51.340 --> 0:00:54.560 disturbing news in relation to the impending release of a 0:00:54.620 --> 0:00:59.910 convicted Islamic State terrorist in Australia. Plus, my Tuesday night panel, 0:00:59.920 --> 0:01:02.270 Dan Wild and Lucy Zellick, will get you across all 0:01:02.300 --> 0:01:06.710 the other issues making news around Australia. And the Prime 0:01:06.730 --> 0:01:10.530 Minister calling for a cooling of the political rhetoric... But 0:01:10.550 --> 0:01:14.730 Pauline Hanson today turned the tables, accusing Anthony Albanese of 0:01:14.790 --> 0:01:18.990 helping to create the very division he now seeks to condemn. 0:01:20.150 --> 0:01:23.610 You tone it down. Get rid of your dirt file 0:01:23.670 --> 0:01:27.870 that goes on against parliamentarians, including my party, which I'm 0:01:27.970 --> 0:01:29.790 constantly dealing with all the time. 0:01:30.330 --> 0:01:31.449 It comes from the top. 0:01:31.950 --> 0:01:33.149 Tone it down yourself. 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:37.910 We'll pick up that issue from Pauline Hanson in a 0:01:37.990 --> 0:01:41.830 moment and we'll stay with that incident yesterday involving Federal 0:01:41.890 --> 0:01:45.869 MP Helen Haynes that we broke here on air last night. 0:01:46.330 --> 0:01:50.170 Struck by a car in an alleged targeted attack, the 0:01:50.190 --> 0:01:54.220 independent MP was airlifted from Wangaratta in Victoria's northeast. to 0:01:54.260 --> 0:01:58.740 Melbourne where she's undergone emergency surgery at the Alfred Hospital, 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:02.380 which is a specialist medical centre for the state's road 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:07.260 trauma patients. Tonight, Haynes remains in a critical condition. It 0:02:07.300 --> 0:02:11.300 has been reported that she has horrifically lost a leg 0:02:11.340 --> 0:02:14.530 and that doctors are now fighting to save her other limb. 0:02:15.310 --> 0:02:20.060 Well-liked to cross the political divide, politicians reacted with concern 0:02:20.070 --> 0:02:24.620 not just for Helen's recovery but also at the nature 0:02:24.660 --> 0:02:29.480 of what's alleged to have occurred yesterday afternoon in regional 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.440 Victoria outside her electorate office. 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:37.520 She is a well-loved member of her community and this 0:02:37.580 --> 0:02:41.800 will come as an incredible shock to that community. 0:02:41.820 --> 0:02:45.450 I have always found her beautiful. to be a polite, 0:02:46.310 --> 0:02:48.970 a dedicated, determined local member. 0:02:49.370 --> 0:02:52.030 We may have differences with politics and that type of thing, 0:02:52.389 --> 0:02:54.929 but for this to happen to her and in a 0:02:54.990 --> 0:02:57.850 critical condition, I'm really quite upset by this. 0:02:58.070 --> 0:03:00.609 Today is a really bad moment because I think it 0:03:00.650 --> 0:03:05.510 will diminish the trust that people have, particularly between MPs 0:03:05.550 --> 0:03:06.549 and the people they serve. 0:03:08.470 --> 0:03:11.190 Now, I've got family who live up in the Wangaratta 0:03:11.340 --> 0:03:15.400 area and a lot of locals are shell-shocked. They've spoken 0:03:15.460 --> 0:03:19.120 out in support of their two-term member for Indi. 0:03:20.139 --> 0:03:23.480 Obviously, our office is next door, so, you know, and 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.540 she's a genuine member of the community. Like, she does 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:31.220 hold a role of significance, but she still is a 0:03:31.300 --> 0:03:32.420 local person. 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:34.700 Helen will always get terrific support. 0:03:34.740 --> 0:03:37.400 She's such a great lady. She does things for everybody. 0:03:37.780 --> 0:03:40.020 I wish her all the best and, yeah, hope she's 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:44.740 all good. Earlier this morning, the Herald Sun reported the 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:48.010 name of the man arrested and detained in connection to 0:03:48.030 --> 0:03:52.630 this alleged attack. They named him as Brendan Nugent, a 0:03:52.650 --> 0:03:58.390 43-year-old local from the neighbouring town of Tarrawindji. Now, Nugent is, 0:03:58.470 --> 0:04:03.820 say those who know him... a long-time forestry campaigner, a 0:04:03.860 --> 0:04:08.760 left-wing environmentalist, or so he was, because his social media 0:04:08.820 --> 0:04:13.340 posts indicate a decided shift to the far left around 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:17.040 the time of the Hamas terror attacks on October 7. 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.640 From that time on, Nugent's views on the Middle East 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:25.120 appear to have become more and more radical, posts exhibiting 0:04:25.190 --> 0:04:31.420 a strongly pro-Palestinian line no surprises here, an anti-Israel position. 0:04:32.020 --> 0:04:35.599 But it wasn't just Gaza that he was supporting. On 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:39.940 January 12, 2024, as just one example, he made this 0:04:40.100 --> 0:04:43.930 post in support of the Houthi military in Yemen, who'd 0:04:43.950 --> 0:04:46.190 been hit by the UK and the US in a 0:04:46.230 --> 0:04:51.100 series of targeted strikes against the terrorist group. But before 0:04:51.150 --> 0:04:54.380 much of Nugent's background came to light, we had a 0:04:55.080 --> 0:05:00.280 raft of commentators flood the airwaves calling out male violence 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:07.260 and predictably harmful online rhetoric, including left-wing activist Hannah Ferguson, 0:05:07.700 --> 0:05:09.789 who's already put up her hand to running the Prime 0:05:09.830 --> 0:05:13.410 Minister's Sydney seat of Graindler at the next federal election. 0:05:13.430 --> 0:05:16.110 I think when we're talking about turning the temperature down, 0:05:16.130 --> 0:05:18.529 I think healthy debate and respectful discourse is a big 0:05:18.570 --> 0:05:19.070 part of that. 0:05:20.690 --> 0:05:23.800 Well, how stupid must the Channel 7 producers be not 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:27.700 to have looked carefully enough into Ferguson's own history when 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:33.460 it comes to politically motivated attacks? Because she has form. 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:38.210 Last year, Ferguson celebrated the assassination of Charlie Kirk in 0:05:38.230 --> 0:05:42.309 this post where she said, Am I glad Charlie Kirk 0:05:42.330 --> 0:05:46.150 will no longer be spreading his extremist messaging? Well, yes. 0:05:47.029 --> 0:05:50.719 Do I believe he empowered the violence that ended his life? 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:54.940 She said yes. Do I believe he caused more harm 0:05:54.980 --> 0:05:58.970 than good? Yes. And the most shocking of all was 0:05:59.010 --> 0:06:04.600 this comment where she said, is violence sometimes necessary? Hannah 0:06:04.620 --> 0:06:10.000 Ferguson said yes. Now, unfortunately for Ferguson's narrative and those 0:06:10.100 --> 0:06:14.080 like her, the alleged attacker here looks likely to have 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:18.460 been from her side of the political fence. So now 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:23.299 just watch the left scramble. Already the debate is moving 0:06:23.660 --> 0:06:28.530 off the man and the alleged motivations in relation to 0:06:28.570 --> 0:06:33.630 yesterday's attack and onto the issue of online hate as 0:06:33.650 --> 0:06:37.430 the Albanese government's already trying to turn this shocking incident 0:06:37.890 --> 0:06:43.960 into justification for its controversial digital duty of care legislation. 0:06:44.820 --> 0:06:48.420 Right on cue, here is Home Affairs Minister Tony Burke 0:06:48.620 --> 0:06:49.219 this morning. 0:06:50.220 --> 0:06:56.770 There is a very strange capacity that has started to 0:06:56.790 --> 0:07:02.089 develop of people being willing to make some of the 0:07:02.130 --> 0:07:06.900 most ugly and brutal comments and threats online and no 0:07:07.020 --> 0:07:09.740 one should pretend that that doesn't add to the temperature. 0:07:09.780 --> 0:07:12.760 That's not to go to this specific case and I 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:15.450 leave it to the police to as they work through 0:07:15.790 --> 0:07:22.170 issues of motivation on this. But regardless of everything we're 0:07:22.190 --> 0:07:26.030 dealing with right now, it is also the case that 0:07:26.650 --> 0:07:31.020 the general environment continues to become higher and higher risk. 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:36.060 What happened to Helen Haynes, if it was a targeted, 0:07:36.140 --> 0:07:40.760 politically motivated attack, does not need new legislation to send 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:44.760 the perpetrator to prison. Running over someone in a car 0:07:44.820 --> 0:07:48.320 is already against the law. So too if he had 0:07:48.380 --> 0:07:52.320 threatened her online, already against the law. Or walked into 0:07:52.380 --> 0:07:57.030 her office perhaps and verbally or physically assaulted her, already 0:07:57.090 --> 0:08:00.850 now all of that against the law. This is just 0:08:00.890 --> 0:08:04.770 a desperate Labor Party willing to use any event, any 0:08:04.830 --> 0:08:09.080 time to their political advantage. And this too, I'm going 0:08:09.100 --> 0:08:12.620 to call this out. This staged photo op today in 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:17.220 the federal parliamentary offices in Melbourne. This is the PM's 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:21.320 office in the CPO, it's called, involving there the Prime Minister, 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:25.300 the Sydney-based Minister, Tony Burke, who clearly flew down to 0:08:25.340 --> 0:08:29.270 Melbourne for the pictures today. The federal police commissioner, Chrissy Barrett, 0:08:29.310 --> 0:08:31.590 she'd been on the plane as well. And the state 0:08:31.610 --> 0:08:35.410 Labor Premier there, Ben Carroll, beside him today, the boss 0:08:35.429 --> 0:08:39.689 of Victoria Police, Mike Bush. Now, right now, Victoria's in 0:08:39.730 --> 0:08:43.200 the midst of a state election campaign. So Carroll is 0:08:43.429 --> 0:08:47.240 in that room for a stage shot to help his 0:08:47.300 --> 0:08:52.920 dwindling political prospects. Now, if Carroll warranted a briefing, fair enough, 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.490 but there was no need for the cameras. Same too 0:08:56.540 --> 0:08:59.450 for Barrett. I would have thought she'd be far better 0:08:59.530 --> 0:09:03.089 off holding her senior colleague meetings in Canberra away from 0:09:03.110 --> 0:09:10.200 the cameras and ensuring tight coordination between the AFP and ASIO. Funny, 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:12.660 isn't it? She can front for a photo op like that, 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:16.840 but she can't front the Bondi Royal Commission. Call me 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:19.710 a cynic, but I know the Labor playbook here. Never 0:09:19.750 --> 0:09:25.470 waste a crisis, especially during an election campaign. Now, some 0:09:25.570 --> 0:09:31.200 things should be above politics, but with Labor, they never are. 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:34.560 Like this report today in the Daily Mail from longtime 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:38.760 political journalist Peter Van Onselen with this headline that reads, 0:09:39.350 --> 0:09:43.250 how Anthony Albanese's office circulated a dirt sheet to journalists 0:09:43.750 --> 0:09:47.610 baselessly raising questions about Helen Haynes just weeks before the 0:09:47.650 --> 0:09:51.200 PM praised her integrity and called on everyone to lower 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:55.859 the temperature in politics. This so-called Labor dirt unit, this 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:59.610 dirt sheet, centred on legitimate questions that were raised by 0:09:59.690 --> 0:10:03.900 Haynes regarding the integrity of the process, whereby the Prime 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:08.860 Minister's local Marrickville golf course got handed that $ 6 million 0:10:08.900 --> 0:10:13.610 government grant months and months and months before there was 0:10:13.850 --> 0:10:17.290 even a formal process to give them the money. 0:10:18.290 --> 0:10:20.850 It was just a few weeks ago. You know, he's 0:10:20.890 --> 0:10:23.990 putting out a dirt file on Helen Haynes. And what 0:10:24.010 --> 0:10:26.390 he said about her, because she questioned about the money 0:10:26.450 --> 0:10:29.650 going to the Merrifield golf course. And for him to 0:10:29.690 --> 0:10:34.840 stand up today and say how wonderful person she is. Well, PM, 0:10:35.500 --> 0:10:37.459 you have a look at it. You say to tone 0:10:37.500 --> 0:10:40.360 it down. Well, then I'll tell the PM, you tone 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.740 it down. Get rid of your dirt file that goes 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:48.339 on against parliamentarians, including my party, which I'm constantly dealing 0:10:48.380 --> 0:10:51.860 with all the time. It comes from the top. Tone 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:52.800 it down yourself. 0:10:54.940 --> 0:10:58.700 Helen Haynes was right to raise the integrity around the 0:10:58.740 --> 0:11:02.320 decision in relation to the Marrickville Golf Club. No less 0:11:02.380 --> 0:11:07.599 than constitutional legal expert Anne Toomey has raised this in 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:11.559 a committee process, in her legal submission to a Senate inquiry. 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.440 If the Prime Minister wants the temperature turned down or 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:17.420 taken down, how about he starts in his own backyard? 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:21.540 And while he's at it, he must urgently review now 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:25.870 the security for every MP, every single MP, not just 0:11:25.900 --> 0:11:30.770 himself and his ministers with the luxury of 24-7 police protection, 0:11:31.270 --> 0:11:35.250 every MP. And end the games too, once and for all, 0:11:35.710 --> 0:11:39.670 where he cuts the staff entitlement of his opponents, but 0:11:39.710 --> 0:11:43.290 for himself, he's got the highest number of staff of 0:11:43.590 --> 0:11:51.630 any Prime Minister in Australian history. All right, let's get 0:11:51.670 --> 0:11:55.270 our headlines now from Canberra with our political reporter, Cam Redden. 0:11:56.190 --> 0:11:56.610 Good evening. 0:11:56.970 --> 0:12:00.080 Australian politics is in a state of shock following the 0:12:00.140 --> 0:12:02.620 attack on independent MP Helen Haynes. 0:12:03.059 --> 0:12:09.060 This has shaken the community. Helen Haynes is someone who 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:13.120 is widely respected. Because she is so respectful. 0:12:13.580 --> 0:12:17.020 She is exactly what we need in elected representatives. 0:12:17.380 --> 0:12:21.420 The incident already has some politicians reviewing their own security 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.560 measures and speaking openly about threats they receive. 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.230 This, unfortunately, I think is the new reality here. I 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:29.810 have certainly seen threats of violence escalate. 0:12:30.130 --> 0:12:34.170 This is a job now that entails death threats as part. 0:12:34.010 --> 0:12:34.450 Of the job. 0:12:34.650 --> 0:12:36.410 We need to draw a line in the sand here 0:12:36.610 --> 0:12:39.530 and find ways to show more respect in the chamber 0:12:39.990 --> 0:12:41.210 and outside the chamber as well. 0:12:41.590 --> 0:12:45.290 And following the latest cartoon controversy, One Nation leader Pauline 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.099 Hanson has issued an apology and a retraction. 0:12:48.540 --> 0:12:51.839 The video went up without my actually seeing it. I've 0:12:52.059 --> 0:12:55.020 asked him to actually change it and I do apologise 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.700 for that. It does bear my name and I've got 0:12:57.720 --> 0:12:59.300 to take responsibility for that. 0:12:59.500 --> 0:13:00.470 Cameron Redden, News 24, Canberra. 0:13:04.410 --> 0:13:06.990 All right, let's bring in our News 24 political editor now, 0:13:07.090 --> 0:13:09.590 Andrew Clennell. Andrew, again, thank you for your time last 0:13:09.650 --> 0:13:12.410 night when that story broke. You were right on the 0:13:12.470 --> 0:13:15.120 money with the horrific events that had played out earlier 0:13:15.130 --> 0:13:17.839 in the day in Wangaratta. Do we have an update 0:13:18.100 --> 0:13:21.240 on Helen Haynes and her condition? There are those reports that, 0:13:21.860 --> 0:13:25.160 as I said, horrifically she has lost her leg, one leg, 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:29.360 and surgeons are trying to obviously save the other limb. 0:13:30.059 --> 0:13:31.459 Do we have any update? 0:13:31.990 --> 0:13:32.430 I don't. 0:13:32.530 --> 0:13:38.350 You know, it's information the hospital has, you know, and 0:13:38.390 --> 0:13:43.490 her family. But we know from the reports at the 0:13:43.550 --> 0:13:45.770 scene in the triple O call, she had a severed 0:13:45.809 --> 0:13:49.900 leg virtually there, I'm pretty sure. So would have lost 0:13:49.980 --> 0:13:53.280 a fair bit of blood. And, you know, there's sort 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.400 of reports indicating the other leg in a lot of danger. 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:00.459 So there's no coming back from this in terms of, 0:14:01.540 --> 0:14:03.719 being back to her old life. I mean, that's why 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:05.900 I feel very sad tonight. It's been a long, sad 0:14:05.980 --> 0:14:10.089 day at work, frankly, because the woman's going to suffer 0:14:10.110 --> 0:14:15.770 intolerably just for doing her job. It's a terrible story. 0:14:15.790 --> 0:14:20.580 And as we know, being a nice politician, you know, 0:14:20.780 --> 0:14:23.920 that's not an oxymoron. There's not many of them. But, 0:14:23.940 --> 0:14:24.580 you know, she is renowned. 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:25.400 At least you made me laugh. 0:14:28.050 --> 0:14:31.170 Not just for being across their brief and serving that 0:14:31.210 --> 0:14:33.090 local community. As I say, I've got family up that 0:14:33.150 --> 0:14:35.390 way very, very well. She's well regarded there, of course. 0:14:36.030 --> 0:14:38.150 But in Canberra, she's able to work with all sides 0:14:38.190 --> 0:14:41.030 of politics and she just comes across as a really 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:45.380 lovely lady. And no one deserves this. No politician, no 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:49.980 human being deserves this. But, you know, you come off 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:53.380 against a Land Cruiser and it's going to be pretty tough, Andrew. 0:14:53.730 --> 0:14:56.720 Yeah, and there's a description for what I think this is, 0:14:56.750 --> 0:14:59.120 but I can't say it on TV. But, I mean, 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.700 it just seems like this guy was a nut. And, yes, 0:15:03.740 --> 0:15:05.940 he was to the left of centre in politics. There's 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.860 no doubt about that. It's not, you know, like Joe 0:15:08.900 --> 0:15:11.850 Cox in Britain was a so-called right-wing extremist. This is 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:13.870 Britain or whatever he was saying while he was shooting 0:15:14.490 --> 0:15:18.489 and stabbing. But this guy looks like he's suffered some 0:15:18.530 --> 0:15:22.230 form of psychosis, been on drugs. We know that he has, 0:15:22.310 --> 0:15:24.850 and Sam Birrell confirmed this on my program this afternoon, Peter, 0:15:25.230 --> 0:15:28.390 he'd been into the state MP's office where he'd been 0:15:28.650 --> 0:15:31.900 agitated and he'd been talking about some sort of sex 0:15:31.980 --> 0:15:36.000 abuse case. So he had grievances on the political side 0:15:36.020 --> 0:15:38.320 he was putting online and he had grievances on the 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:43.850 personal side. Even more tragically, his... His father and stepmother 0:15:43.950 --> 0:15:48.100 appear to have known Helen Haynes. Helen Haynes was photographed 0:15:48.140 --> 0:15:51.240 with a stepmother, a health executive, a year ago. 0:15:51.260 --> 0:15:52.480 Mm-hmm. 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:54.130 And I do. 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:55.120 Let's just go to that, Andrew. 0:15:55.140 --> 0:15:55.340 OK, sure. 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:57.140 Let's just go to that. We've got that statement from 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:02.060 his father, his father, Rod Nugent, and the father's partner, 0:16:02.220 --> 0:16:05.460 Christine Cunningham, have released a statement. It said, I mean, again, 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:07.300 Wang's not a small place, but it is a country 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:23.310 town in many respects, Andrew. This will be ripping the 0:16:23.330 --> 0:16:24.070 town apart. 0:16:24.810 --> 0:16:30.190 Yeah, and so I do sort of feel like Haynes 0:16:30.230 --> 0:16:33.830 was just outside at the wrong time because I feel 0:16:33.870 --> 0:16:36.550 like he's driven past. I could be wrong. He might 0:16:36.570 --> 0:16:38.530 have been hanging around there waiting, but it's just the 0:16:38.670 --> 0:16:41.830 U-turn makes you think he'd driven past and in this 0:16:41.950 --> 0:16:44.680 madness this bloke's had, he's gone, oh, I think I'll 0:16:44.700 --> 0:16:47.980 go run her over because the eyewitness accounts, which I'm 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.520 very grateful to our reporter, Jack Nyhoff, for getting them 0:16:50.580 --> 0:16:53.700 on camera out there, indicate the guy was babbling. He 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:55.960 just didn't know what, you know, day of the week 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:57.860 it was, and they were able to hold him down 0:16:57.940 --> 0:17:01.570 pretty easily. So, but the viciousness of it, I mean, 0:17:01.610 --> 0:17:03.850 you can be mad or you can be mad and bad. 0:17:03.930 --> 0:17:06.490 Not all mentally ill people, in fact, very few of them, 0:17:06.550 --> 0:17:10.070 do things like this. So it's important to keep that 0:17:10.130 --> 0:17:12.970 in mind as well, and he should be charged, you know, 0:17:13.340 --> 0:17:16.780 and we look forward to that. But it just seems 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:18.200 one of those things which. 0:17:20.550 --> 0:17:25.100 You can't necessarily blame on more modern times and social media. 0:17:25.130 --> 0:17:29.380 I'm sure it can exacerbate mental illness, and we see that. 0:17:30.780 --> 0:17:34.820 I'm sure it can exacerbate political extremism, but it just 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:39.159 does look like a mentally ill, potentially drug adult or 0:17:39.290 --> 0:17:44.889 alcohol adult act. And, look, I'm keen to hear further 0:17:44.930 --> 0:17:47.790 details about it, but the security question is a really 0:17:47.869 --> 0:17:51.230 interesting one. Have we been too lax in this country? 0:17:51.270 --> 0:17:53.250 I mean, I had Tony Burke on a year ago. 0:17:53.270 --> 0:17:56.090 He said, yes, we all fear this is going to 0:17:56.109 --> 0:18:00.369 happen here. You know, do we have enough security around 0:18:00.430 --> 0:18:04.490 our electorate offices, security detail? People were saying to me today, well, 0:18:04.510 --> 0:18:06.870 you couldn't have protected her in this instance. And that 0:18:06.910 --> 0:18:09.120 might be right. But I'll tell you what, you might 0:18:09.130 --> 0:18:11.920 be able to protect the next MP, Peter, if you 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:14.679 start looking more at, you know, you work at a 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:16.980 place like News Corp, we've got a security guard on 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.109 the buildings. Why shouldn't you have one at an electorate office, 0:18:20.150 --> 0:18:20.790 for example? 0:18:21.070 --> 0:18:23.189 Yeah, but hang on, hang on, hang on. Let me 0:18:23.210 --> 0:18:25.350 jump in there. I've worked for seven MPs and all 0:18:25.369 --> 0:18:28.500 of them had quite secure offices and I'm talking about 0:18:28.940 --> 0:18:32.199 low-ranking ministers, I'm talking about simple electorate offices and I'm 0:18:32.260 --> 0:18:35.730 talking about... the high-end CPOs in our capital city. So 0:18:35.810 --> 0:18:39.149 all of them are relatively fortified, Andrew. I think the 0:18:39.210 --> 0:18:42.690 vulnerability is when the politician's in a vehicle and often 0:18:42.730 --> 0:18:45.790 it's their own car, when they're out of their family 0:18:45.850 --> 0:18:49.230 home and when they're in and around normal settings in 0:18:49.260 --> 0:18:51.440 their electorates trying to do the job that we want 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:53.840 them to do, to get out and about and talk 0:18:53.859 --> 0:18:55.340 to real people and not live in a bubble. I 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:56.600 think that's the difficulty. 0:18:56.780 --> 0:18:57.300 Well, do we need. 0:18:57.359 --> 0:18:59.480 And that's where the only thing... Well, that's where the 0:18:59.540 --> 0:19:03.940 only thing that would guard against that circumstance... is close 0:19:04.010 --> 0:19:07.250 personal protection of the type that the Prime Minister has. 0:19:07.310 --> 0:19:08.790 And I think that has to be on the table. 0:19:09.109 --> 0:19:10.129 It has to be on the table. 0:19:10.369 --> 0:19:12.730 So do I. And I also wonder, and I know 0:19:12.930 --> 0:19:16.510 they do this for advertising or whatever, but Helen Haynes 0:19:16.550 --> 0:19:18.960 was next to a car with her name emblazoned on it. 0:19:20.109 --> 0:19:22.080 Do we need to put an end to that practice 0:19:22.710 --> 0:19:26.400 and say, look, let's not make ourselves a target here 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:29.679 with our names on our cars, et cetera? I know 0:19:29.700 --> 0:19:33.330 that might disappoint a lot of politicians, especially regional areas 0:19:33.369 --> 0:19:37.260 because they want to advertise their brand etc but that 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:42.080 sort of thing I just think out of this the 0:19:42.140 --> 0:19:45.649 government needs to get real with the AFP and serious 0:19:46.410 --> 0:19:49.530 I mean Helen Haynes could still die if not she's 0:19:49.550 --> 0:19:53.550 affected for the rest of her life by this. And 0:19:53.770 --> 0:19:55.910 if something can come out of it, can we make 0:19:55.950 --> 0:19:58.320 it that it doesn't happen again or we do everything 0:19:58.380 --> 0:20:00.709 we can to make sure it doesn't happen again? We 0:20:00.730 --> 0:20:03.960 already have enough trouble getting people into politics as it is. 0:20:05.540 --> 0:20:08.359 I will just have a plea, having lived inside that 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:10.980 machine for 16 years, that if we do do a 0:20:11.100 --> 0:20:14.600 review of it, like we're having this inquiry into Bondi, 0:20:15.020 --> 0:20:16.550 I want to see it go all the way to 0:20:16.570 --> 0:20:19.149 the top. I want to see the AFP involved. I 0:20:19.190 --> 0:20:21.830 want to see the parliamentary services involved. I want to 0:20:21.869 --> 0:20:25.490 see ASIO involved and state police as well as the 0:20:25.530 --> 0:20:29.030 federal machine because so many of the interactions that the 0:20:29.070 --> 0:20:32.090 politicians have when there is concern about the security is 0:20:32.690 --> 0:20:35.609 is the involvement of state police. And I'm just so 0:20:35.670 --> 0:20:40.410 disappointed with the lack of rigour around the Bondi Royal Commission, Andrew, 0:20:40.450 --> 0:20:41.840 that if we are going to look at this, we 0:20:41.859 --> 0:20:44.859 do a Fed income review. Yeah. And if they can 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:47.820 get to someone like Helen Haynes in a country town 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:51.700 who's well-liked, who's not inflammatory, then I think every other 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:54.880 politician needs to be looked at carefully and protected. 0:20:55.060 --> 0:20:59.190 And don't discount a copycat, you know. And, you know, 0:20:59.230 --> 0:21:01.150 the terrible thing to say, you don't want to say that, 0:21:01.190 --> 0:21:03.730 but you've got to be hypervigilant now, you know, the 0:21:03.770 --> 0:21:07.580 government about this. And in terms of Bondi Royal Commission, 0:21:07.820 --> 0:21:10.220 excuse my language, I'm pissed off about this as well, 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:14.460 because it's not like, you know, it's 15 dead people 0:21:15.020 --> 0:21:18.890 and kids cowering under a bridge hearing people get slowly shot. 0:21:19.630 --> 0:21:23.510 You know, so why wouldn't the Prime Minister and Home 0:21:23.570 --> 0:21:26.649 Affairs Minister and the Australian Federal Police Commissioner and the 0:21:26.690 --> 0:21:28.190 New South Wales Premier be called? 0:21:28.630 --> 0:21:29.430 Even if it was. 0:21:29.340 --> 0:21:33.060 Just for an hour with some pretty rudimentary type stuff. 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:37.360 The point is the Commission has to be seen to be, 0:21:37.380 --> 0:21:42.100 you know, leaving no stone unturned over Australia's worst terror attack. 0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:44.780 So I'm in furious agreement with you on that, Peter. 0:21:46.460 --> 0:21:49.320 I want to get a comment from you on... this 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:54.379 comment from the Prime Minister and this dirt unit sheet 0:21:54.619 --> 0:21:57.810 that his own office put out a couple of weeks ago. 0:21:57.869 --> 0:22:03.639 Have a listen. They haven't got the grab for me. Sorry, Andrew. 0:22:04.060 --> 0:22:06.820 But he basically said the reason she was respected is 0:22:06.859 --> 0:22:11.399 she was so respectful. I mean, rightly, I think the 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:15.440 PM's quite genuine in his reflections in relation to Helen Haynes, 0:22:16.070 --> 0:22:18.510 but a lot of hand-wringing when only a few weeks 0:22:18.570 --> 0:22:21.010 ago he was dishing the dirt on her about the 0:22:21.050 --> 0:22:22.810 Marrickville Golf Club grant. 0:22:22.950 --> 0:22:26.190 Well, I didn't get the dirt sheet. If that's true, 0:22:26.230 --> 0:22:28.270 that's highly disappointing. That's all I can say. 0:22:29.380 --> 0:22:31.820 Well, that's certainly the reports. That's the reports from Peter 0:22:31.859 --> 0:22:32.920 Van Onselen today. 0:22:32.980 --> 0:22:34.659 I'm not saying it's not true at all, but I'm 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:38.350 just saying I didn't receive it, which kind of exonerates 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:42.810 me from revealing my source, if you like. But, yeah, 0:22:42.869 --> 0:22:44.090 that would be pretty disappointing. 0:22:46.609 --> 0:22:47.970 Maybe you didn't get it because I wouldn't have thought 0:22:47.990 --> 0:22:50.370 you'd use it, your man of integrity, Andrew Clennell. Maybe 0:22:50.390 --> 0:22:52.919 that's what it is. All right, I've got to leave 0:22:52.940 --> 0:22:54.660 it there. I want to get on to David Craig 0:22:54.700 --> 0:22:57.180 if I can. Thank you, Andrew. And he joins me now. 0:22:57.200 --> 0:23:00.770 Of course, David Craig is a former AFP detective superintendent. 0:23:01.530 --> 0:23:04.390 I want to speak to you tonight, David, about this 0:23:04.470 --> 0:23:08.649 situation terrible news, concerning news in relation to a convicted 0:23:08.710 --> 0:23:12.990 Islamic State terrorist that looks to be about to be 0:23:13.040 --> 0:23:17.210 released from prison in Australia. But given your experience, give 0:23:17.230 --> 0:23:19.320 me your assessment. You heard the discussion there with Andrew 0:23:19.340 --> 0:23:23.300 Clennell about better support and better security for police. I 0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:25.740 made the point that a lot of the facilities they 0:23:25.780 --> 0:23:29.159 are in, their offices, Parliament House, they're all pretty hardened 0:23:29.980 --> 0:23:32.859 as they are now. The vulnerability is when they're out 0:23:32.880 --> 0:23:36.720 and about with the community. Do we need a police 0:23:36.780 --> 0:23:40.300 officer or some sort of close personal protection at public 0:23:40.380 --> 0:23:42.660 events for Australian MPs? 0:23:44.740 --> 0:23:47.420 I think it would be good to have that luxury, Peter, 0:23:47.720 --> 0:23:50.700 to afford that to every MP across the board, but 0:23:50.810 --> 0:23:53.689 I just think logistically it's just not possible and they 0:23:53.730 --> 0:23:57.350