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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Pit Talk, a Fox Sports and

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Speaker 1: Speed Cafe Formula one podcast. On today's episode, char Leclair

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Speaker 1: wins Ferrari's home race at the Italian Grand Prix with

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Speaker 1: a bold one stop strategy to defeat Oscar Piastre, and

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Speaker 1: while McLaren makes big gains on Red Bull Racing in

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Speaker 1: the constructors Championship, has it waited too long to shoot

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Speaker 1: for the driver's title? My name is Michael Lomonato, motorsport

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Speaker 1: writer for Fox Sports Australia. It's great to have your

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Speaker 1: company and the company of my co host from Speed Cafe.

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Speaker 1: I don't care if James Fowls thinks he's only good

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Speaker 1: and not special. It's Matt Kosh.

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Speaker 2: I wonder where you're going with that for a second. Mare.

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Speaker 3: Look, ultimately, if you can be good and not special

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Speaker 3: in land of driving Formula one, then I'll take that.

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Speaker 2: So that's pretty good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just as long as as long as there's some

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Speaker 3: sort of lavender law or purple plan or something like

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Speaker 3: that that's involved law, let's just move seamlessly on because

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Speaker 3: I'm going to have a lot of fun with Papyo

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Speaker 3: rules in this episode Just Dreadful.

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Speaker 1: We will get to the Papy rules a little bit

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Speaker 1: later on, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, lovely, just dreadful but bore.

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Speaker 1: Look before we get into what was another really interesting

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Speaker 1: Grand Prix in this unfolding season and what it means

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Speaker 1: for the championship and McLaren's driver lineup going forward to

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Speaker 1: the rest of the season, let's get to the five

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Speaker 1: top news stories of the last week and Matt unsurprisingly

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Speaker 1: number one is the latest piece of the driver market

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Speaker 1: puzzle that we all saw it coming. Less than twenty

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Speaker 1: four hours after crashing his car in FB one, Mecedes

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Speaker 1: confirmed that Andrea Kimmi Antonelli will replace Lewis Hamilton from

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Speaker 1: next season alongside George Russell.

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Speaker 3: The worst kept secret in Formula one because I think

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Speaker 3: everyone's known this since about five minutes after Lewis announced

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Speaker 3: his departure from Mercedes, so we've had to wait for it.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: Obviously Mercedes didn't make his snap decision, even though it

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Speaker 3: effectively did. It needed to go through a process and

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Speaker 3: evaluate other options. It would be remiss not to, but yeah,

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Speaker 3: it makes sense to invest in the future. Get Kimmi

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Speaker 3: Antonelli ready and up to speed for twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 3: You never know the way Mercedes is going they may

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Speaker 3: even have a run next year, but he's you know,

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Speaker 3: he showed in free practice one that he still needs

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Speaker 3: more time. I'm just worried that they're rushing what is

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Speaker 3: a supreme talent.

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Speaker 1: It'll be interesting to see how that unfold and out

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Speaker 1: follows hot off the heels of Jack doing being announced

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Speaker 1: the week before. But poor old Jack's been handed already

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Speaker 1: his first defeat, this being in the battle but his

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Speaker 1: preferred number to Antonelli do and said he wanted to

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Speaker 1: race with the number twelve. That, according to Autosport, Mercedes

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Speaker 1: has beaten Alpine to the race to complete the paperwork

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Speaker 1: to claim it.

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Speaker 3: It's not like Alpine to be a bit slow fin paperwork,

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Speaker 3: is it. I mean, I can't think of another instance

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Speaker 3: where that's ever happened before. For yeah, I wonder what

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Speaker 3: number will end up having to get, Probably whatever's left

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Speaker 3: once already submit their paperwork already haven't yet got a

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Speaker 3: driver confirmed for those that are still trying to keep

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Speaker 3: up with us, Yeah, look, it'll pick something. What was

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Speaker 3: what was Mick doing the number when it wasn't number

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Speaker 3: one because he had number one for a long time.

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Speaker 3: I wonder if he'll he'll do a little bit of

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Speaker 3: a throwback to Dad.

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Speaker 1: It'll be interesting to say. I always do like well,

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Speaker 1: I like mo. I sometimes like the stories for driver numbers.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they're boring, but hopefully comes up with a nice

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Speaker 1: number connection.

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Speaker 2: Kimmy Rychens is pretty good.

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Speaker 1: What was kimy Ruyckens? I don't even remember it well.

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Speaker 3: His story was I had to choose a number, So

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Speaker 3: he's number seven, wasn't he?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: I think that. There you go. Well, that's definitely a

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Speaker 1: number you got him. In the build up to the

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Speaker 1: Weekends race in Italy, we had another driver announcement. I'll

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Speaker 1: be a temporary one, with William sacking second year American

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Speaker 1: driver Logan Sargent and replacing him with academy driver Franco

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Speaker 1: colopiinto the Argentine rising up from F two for an

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Speaker 1: unusual nine race chance to the end of the year.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, bit of a late debut from what I've heard,

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Speaker 3: is paying about half a million dollars a year for yeah,

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Speaker 3: half a million dollars a race for that drive for

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Speaker 3: and a half mill or thereabouts to the end of

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Speaker 3: the year. Didn't actually do too badly. In Venice was

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Speaker 3: surprisingly close to Alex album. But you know, let's put

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Speaker 3: an asterix next to that, because Nick Deriese did pretty

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Speaker 3: well for Williams at Monza and he had a very

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Speaker 3: short lived career. We know Williams just tends to go

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Speaker 3: well there, so let's see how he goes in the

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Speaker 3: next few races. But yeah, good start for him, just

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Speaker 3: outside the points and more or less on pire with

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Speaker 3: Alex album.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't the only somewhat controversial moment of the build up

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Speaker 1: at Williams though, because James val does he's inclined to do,

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Speaker 1: gave quite a long and full, someome explanation of why

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Speaker 1: he chose Colopinto when other more experienced drivers were available.

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Speaker 1: We know Liam Lawson wasn't going to be available for

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Speaker 1: the full nine races, or potentially not for the full races,

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Speaker 1: ruling him out. There was the explanation denying Mick Schumacher

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Speaker 1: the drive, saying that he would be good but not special.

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Speaker 1: That certainly raised the eye of Toto Wolf, the team

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Speaker 1: loss of Mercedes, who hires Mick Schumacher as a reserve driver,

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Speaker 1: so much so that Valves was forced to walk back

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Speaker 1: those comments before the end of the weekend.

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Speaker 3: He can try and walk them back as much as

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Speaker 3: he liked. But he said them, and he's not an

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Speaker 3: unintelligent man, so it wouldn't have been through callousness or

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Speaker 3: you know, a lack of thought that he said them.

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Speaker 3: But what I what sort of went a little bit

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Speaker 3: unsaid in that was the comments didn't just relate to

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Speaker 3: Mick Schumacher. They also related to Franco Colopinto, because he

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Speaker 3: said both of them could be said a good, not

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Speaker 3: great or not special or whatever the exact words were.

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Speaker 3: So you've dumped the driver. And what I also really

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Speaker 3: despised was the disrespect that this gave Logan Sergeant, because

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Speaker 3: basically you've said that, well, it reached his pinnacle of performance.

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Speaker 3: He wasn't good enough, So we're going to go for

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Speaker 3: someone who's completely unproven instead.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, lots to say about that.

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Speaker 1: Well, maybe we'll get onto that either later today or

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Speaker 1: at least next week when we have a chance to

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Speaker 1: reflect on the last fortnight. And finally, Matt, another somewhat

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Speaker 1: increasingly open secret, and that is that Adrian Neue set

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Speaker 1: to join Aston Martin on a reported twenty million pound

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Speaker 1: thirty eight million dollars a year deal. According to the

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Speaker 1: Daily Mail, could be announced as soon as this Friday.

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Speaker 1: New He stepped back from Red Bull Racing earlier this year,

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Speaker 1: but won't be free to join Aston until the second

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Speaker 1: quarter of next season, maybe just in time to influence

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Speaker 1: the team's twenty twenty six car.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he'll absolutely get in time in there in time

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Speaker 3: to influence that car. If that is where he's going.

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Speaker 3: Seems to be a done deal from everything that we

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Speaker 3: keep hearing. And what's interesting as well is that as

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Speaker 3: he sort of stepped away from Red Bull, red Bull

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Speaker 3: was stepped away from the front of the championship. So

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Speaker 3: it'd be interesting to see if that's coincidental, if there's

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Speaker 3: anything more to it, what Adrian can do. As to Martin,

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Speaker 3: he has had success follow him through his career, so yeah,

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Speaker 3: we could be seeing a little bit of a changing

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Speaker 3: of the guards. So it's an exciting little period both

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Speaker 3: on track off track politically. For whatever James Vale is

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Speaker 3: going to say next, there's just so much happening at

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Speaker 3: the moment. I just hope we get some sort of

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Speaker 3: silver system to manage it all.

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Speaker 1: It is Adrian Nuey. Success does follow Adrian Newey, but

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Speaker 1: defeat does follow in his wake. That's the other essential

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Speaker 1: element of his legacy. He doesn't just take championship wherever

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Speaker 1: he goes inevitably the teams he leaves Maybe collapse is

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Speaker 1: too strong a word, but no longer succeed. So is

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Speaker 1: it a coincidence or is it just a continuation of

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Speaker 1: that trend something that we'll explore, I guess in future

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Speaker 1: months as the Red Bull racing situation becomes clearer. But

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Speaker 1: let's look now Matt to the Italian Grand Prix. We'll

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Speaker 1: have a look at the broader picture of the race

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Speaker 1: a little bit later in this episode, obviously talking about

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Speaker 1: Ferrari winning its home Grand Prix, always a big result

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Speaker 1: on the Formula One calendar, but let's start with McLaren

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Speaker 1: because McLaren is very much now at the center of

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Speaker 1: the Formula One narrative, not just because of this race

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Speaker 1: but leading up to it, because of it's pursuit of

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Speaker 1: the Constructor's championship that now fields as inevitable as ever,

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Speaker 1: but also this illuming prospect of contending for the driver's title,

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Speaker 1: which only a month or two ago you wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: even thought about. Considering the gap to Max for Stappen,

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Speaker 1: but considering Red Bulls decline. In particular, McLaren's rise, especially

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Speaker 1: since it's upgrade to the Dutch Grand Prix, seemed to

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Speaker 1: take it another step ahead, has brought that interview as

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Speaker 1: something that could be possible to achieve. But of course

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Speaker 1: that's raised the prospect of team orders, considering Oscar Piastre

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Speaker 1: is a little bit further back in the championship, not

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Speaker 1: a lot, but enough that it's Orlando Norris who has

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Speaker 1: the best shot and still has his championship destiny entirely

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Speaker 1: within his own hands. No team orders this weekend, Matt,

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Speaker 1: And it's hard to say or hard to argue against

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Speaker 1: the drivers racing each other on the first lap, dealing

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Speaker 1: McLaren quite a big blow and pursued a victory this weekend,

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Speaker 1: which did ultimately cost it points to both Red Bull

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Speaker 1: and Maxistaffen in both championships. I'd like your take, first

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Speaker 1: of all, on the way McLaren approached this weekend on

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Speaker 1: its decision to implement these Papyo rules as it's decided

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Speaker 1: to call them, and how costly do you think this

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Speaker 1: race might be reflected upon, because, as I think Lando

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Speaker 1: Norra suggested afterwards, there's still time to win the title,

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Speaker 1: but it is slipping away race by raids.

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Speaker 3: My biggest criticism for Pire Rules is actually the title

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Speaker 3: for Pyre Rules, when they could have had the you know,

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Speaker 3: they could have had Orange order.

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Speaker 2: For example.

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Speaker 3: We ultimately Formula one is a team sport, but there

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Speaker 3: are individuals within that. And you know, we say that

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Speaker 3: the Constructors Championship is one the teams because that's where

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Speaker 3: the prize money is, but all the glory goes to

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Speaker 3: the drivers. You will get very few opportunities throughout a career,

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Speaker 3: throughout a team's history, even to pursue a driver's championship.

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Speaker 3: Look at the nineteen eighties and early nineteen nineties. McLaren

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Speaker 3: has hung itself on the success that it had with

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Speaker 3: all Armed Prosteny and Center, not for the constructors Championships,

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Speaker 3: but for the driver Championship.

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Speaker 2: So it's built its reputation on that success.

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Speaker 3: Even Mckahackening, we don't stop and think about the constructors

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Speaker 3: championships in the early two thousands. We talk in late

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Speaker 3: nineties we talk about Mica Hackenen. Same way at Ferrari

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Speaker 3: during Michael Schumacker's dominance, we talk about Michael Schumacher. You

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Speaker 3: don't get these opportunities often, so I think it's remiss

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Speaker 3: not to pursue them with absolutely vigor, and it pains me.

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Speaker 3: I've said this for the last couple of weeks that

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Speaker 3: McLaren should be throwing all the eggs in Orlando Norris

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Speaker 3: basket because by doing that it's not going to hurt

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Speaker 3: its Constructors Championship because Lando and Oscar will arguably still

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Speaker 3: score the same number of points, maybe in a different order,

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Speaker 3: but to effectively rob Lando of the points. And you know,

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Speaker 3: let's extend this back to the Hungarian Grand Prix, and

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Speaker 3: I as an Australian, I sort of hate myself for

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Speaker 3: saying this, but.

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Speaker 2: Lando probably should have been given that win. He didn't

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Speaker 2: deserve it.

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Speaker 3: Oscar absolutely did, but it should have been given that

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Speaker 3: win because at that point he could have made some

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Speaker 3: more meaningful inroads into the championship. Wasn't obvious back then,

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Speaker 3: is quite how badly Red Bull was struggling. That's become

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Speaker 3: more obvious since the particularly the you know, the Dutch

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Speaker 3: and Italian's Grand Prix, not the Belgian Grand Prix so much.

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Speaker 3: But there's been opportunities through this year which I think

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Speaker 3: we'll get to the end of the year, and McLaren

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Speaker 3: will rightly sit back and say we didn't capitalize on

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Speaker 3: that because I think it's still a comparatively immature organization.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't understand where it fits in, and it does'

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Speaker 3: understand where it's drivers fit in or its management fits

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Speaker 3: in in terms of instructing those because Andre Stellar is

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Speaker 3: in a position that he's never been in. He's never

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Speaker 3: headed a team pursuing the World Championship. He's been involved

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Speaker 3: in teams, but he's never headed a team, and as

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Speaker 3: a result, he doesn't want to go and upset the

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Speaker 3: drivers because that'll upset the structure and environment within the team,

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Speaker 3: and that's important. But then I wonder also whether there's

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Speaker 3: a little bit of Mark Weber influence here. Now obviously

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Speaker 3: Mark had deep personal experience with team orders, not a

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Speaker 3: particularly positive experience with team orders through his.

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Speaker 2: Time in Formula One.

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Speaker 3: Not saying that Mark is impacting that or projecting or whatever,

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Speaker 3: but that that's got to be weighing on some decisions somewhere,

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Speaker 3: even even influencing Oscar.

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Speaker 2: I don't want team orders because team orders are will

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Speaker 2: be bad for me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they might be this time around, but I mean

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Speaker 3: Oscar has shown that team orders are necessary because Oscar

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Speaker 3: at the moment in Italy was better than Lando. So

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Speaker 3: you're fast forward to next year, Well, team orders wouldn't

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Speaker 3: necessarily be needed for you, Oscar because you're faster than Lando,

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Speaker 3: so come the end of next year, roles are reversed.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I think it's absolutely essential. Now absolutely essential

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Speaker 3: because McLaren will win the Constructors Championship. I mean, Rebel

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Speaker 3: might even finished third the way they're going, but McLaren

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Speaker 3: will win the Constructors Championship. It's nip and tuck on

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Speaker 3: the drivers. So they need to throw everything they can,

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Speaker 3: including papyor rules or in order, the Green Framework, whatever

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Speaker 3: they've got at it to I've got more of these

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Speaker 3: to make sure that that they locked that one away,

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Speaker 3: because I honestly think it will go down to Abu Dhabi.

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Speaker 3: Whatever happens will go down to Abu Dabi, whould be

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Speaker 3: great for us. But I just wonder whether it needs

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Speaker 3: to get that far.

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Speaker 1: Ourn order sounds plausible as well. I don't know why

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Speaker 1: they didn't go with that one. There's a couple of

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Speaker 1: things I want to bring up with what you said there,

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Speaker 1: and for me, the complexion of McLaren's season has changed

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Speaker 1: a little bit. I mean, as you mentioned when we

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Speaker 1: talk about racist like the Hungarian Grand Prix, where team

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Speaker 1: orders first really came to the fore. Admittedly it wasn't

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Speaker 1: something planned with, it's just the way the race unfolded

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Speaker 1: that Team Orders came into the equation there. The driver's

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Speaker 1: title just didn't really loom large on the horizon at all.

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Speaker 1: Norris was as pretty much as far back as he

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Speaker 1: is now and Red Bull Racing wasn't showing this state

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Speaker 1: of the client, so it can forgive it there. We've

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Speaker 1: said on this podcast before, Matt that McLaren has missed

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Speaker 1: a lot of opportunities this year, and it has. But

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Speaker 1: despite that, it's going it's almost certainly going to win

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Speaker 1: the Constructors Championship, right, So suddenly, in retrospect you can't

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Speaker 1: be too critical, particularly in the context of this being

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Speaker 1: a relatively young group of people in this team that

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Speaker 1: it's running the operation. Can't be too critical of that

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Speaker 1: because the end result is still going to be that

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Speaker 1: they win the team's championship, even if it's a bit

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Speaker 1: messier than it should have been. Suddenly, now for me,

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Speaker 1: the question becomes what is Lando doing to earn the

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Speaker 1: driver's title, and I agree, and I wrote this even

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Speaker 1: before this weekend's race, that it seems time if with

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Speaker 1: McLaren's going to win the Cans dructor Startle, it may

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Speaker 1: as well go for the driver's title, even if it's

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Speaker 1: a long shot. The only way to do that is

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Speaker 1: to Backgland of Norris fully because he's the closer driver

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Speaker 1: points wise, and the only driver who can do it

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Speaker 1: without needing Max to have DNFs and things like that.

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Speaker 1: But then you look back at Norris's season a couple

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Speaker 1: of races Standard in particular, has he done enough to

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Speaker 1: make himself the incontrovertible, undeniable number one in that team?

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Speaker 1: And I think races like the Italian Grand Prix show

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Speaker 1: that that isn't the case, And you can kind of

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Speaker 1: understand that context why maybe McLaren has struggled a little

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Speaker 1: bit to make that call. I wrote this week that actually,

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Speaker 1: if you divide up well, the points gap between them

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Speaker 1: is forty four points. I think between Norris and Piastre.

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Speaker 1: A lot of those points came, for example, in Miami,

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Speaker 1: where Pstre failed to score despite having been the driver

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Speaker 1: that should have been in most contention to win the

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Speaker 1: race for McLaren. But for the safety car, you know,

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Speaker 1: hypotheticals are difficult because you can always find these points

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Speaker 1: for every driver, but should be much closer in points

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Speaker 1: because actually they roughly on my calculation share this season

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Speaker 1: and race by race in terms of who was the

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Speaker 1: quicker driver, it's roughly fifty to fifty. The form guid's

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Speaker 1: roughly even. And then you look at again. To come

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Speaker 1: back to the Italian Grand Prix, Lando Norras started from

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Speaker 1: pole for the seventh time in a row, failed to

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Speaker 1: lead the end of the first lap. And in this

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Speaker 1: case it wasn't just that, you know, Maxistapa has these

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Speaker 1: great starts, that he left the door wide open to

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Speaker 1: Oscar Piastri to pass him and then was caught off

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Speaker 1: guard and lost another place. In that regard, we think

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Speaker 1: about Hungary did exactly the same thing. The only reason

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Speaker 1: Oscar won there is because he beat him off the

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Speaker 1: line and was quicker through the race subsequently because he

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Speaker 1: had that lead in clear air. How many opportunities has

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Speaker 1: Orlando Norris missed to tell McLaren through his driving the

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Speaker 1: only way you will win every race, because that is

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Speaker 1: still the path to victory is by backing me. Because

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Speaker 1: in this race. McLaren clearly had to these Papaya rules,

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Speaker 1: a soft backing of Norris. Clearly preferred for him to

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Speaker 1: go out and sort of claim the preferential strategy and things,

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Speaker 1: and he didn't take it. So I fire McLaren. While

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Speaker 1: I still think that before Azerbaijan the to make that call,

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Speaker 1: because that's just the focus now, I kind of understand

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Speaker 1: why it's been difficult to make that decision up to

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Speaker 1: now because for me, Norris has had these great highs,

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Speaker 1: Netherlands being one of them, but it's still just too

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Speaker 1: inconsistent for me to be confident that even with team orders,

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Speaker 1: he will win the title.

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Speaker 3: That's a fair point. It is a very fair point

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Speaker 3: because if Lando Norris sneaks the World Championship, you'll look back,

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Speaker 3: and as I said before, McLaren to looked back at

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Speaker 3: the missed opportunities that I had through the year, Lando

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Speaker 3: should look back at the missed opportunities through the year

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Speaker 3: as well, because it's been far from perfect. Then conversely,

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Speaker 3: you look at Maxims Staffa and yes he had a

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Speaker 3: very very strong start to the season, but then since

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Speaker 3: then he's capitalized on whatever's been available, and that's what

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Speaker 3: you have to do as a world champion or a

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Speaker 3: World Championship contender. You think back to the Austrian Grand Prix,

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Speaker 3: Lando parked it. Max went out there and got a

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Speaker 3: couple of points. Ye, how important could those couple of

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Speaker 3: points be by the end of the year. They could

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Speaker 3: determine I mean, obviously the World Championship is over an

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Speaker 3: entire year, but that a couple of points there could

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Speaker 3: prove critical. Come Abu Dhabi and Lando parked it because

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Speaker 3: it's game over, my car is too hard or whatever.

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Speaker 3: Max dragged a wounded car home and that's what you

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Speaker 3: have to do. You do not give up, You never surrender,

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Speaker 3: you leave nothing on the table. And then there's just

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Speaker 3: been too much of that.

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Speaker 2: This year.

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Speaker 3: McLaren is going to win the World Championship, not because

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Speaker 3: they've been perfect or necessarily even better than Red Bull.

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Speaker 3: It's just Red Bull's been fighting with half a team.

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Speaker 3: That's the only real difference there. So you don't have

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Speaker 3: to be twice as good. You can be one of

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Speaker 3: a bit times as good and you're going to beat them.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, it's interesting. It's going to be at the

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Speaker 3: end of the year a case of looking back and going, well,

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Speaker 3: did he or did he not make the most of it.

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Speaker 3: I honestly, I couldn't tell you here right now who's

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Speaker 3: going to win the Drive Show. I can tell you

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Speaker 3: with absolute confidence who I think is going to win

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Speaker 3: the Constructors Championship with the driver's title. Yeah, I'm with you,

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Speaker 3: and I share that point. But perhaps because of that point,

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Speaker 3: my rashnale is that McClaren should have already been backing Lando.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sort of It's going to be a great

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Speaker 1: season to reflect on with perfect hindsight as to how

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Speaker 1: it should have been judged, I think. But that's the

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Speaker 1: sort of great thing about this campaign is that every

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Speaker 1: race feels meaningful and meaningful based on relatively small decisions,

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Speaker 1: decisions maybe not even taken on the track or even

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Speaker 1: on race day. This is a really quick final point

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Speaker 1: on this, I think, and this is something we'll probably

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Speaker 1: discuss more at the end of the year reflecting on

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Speaker 1: the season in full. But I think what's difficult from

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Speaker 1: the past perspective is that, actually, I think on bounds

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Speaker 1: he's probably been as good as Norris. He's had some

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Speaker 1: races where he's been further off Norris. Then Norris has

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Speaker 1: been off Piastre on Piastre's really good races, and he's

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Speaker 1: had some races where he hasn't been at the absolute

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Speaker 1: highs that Norris has been able to achieve, for example

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Speaker 1: the Dutch Grand Prix. But I think on average he's

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Speaker 1: been at least as good as Norris, like I say,

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Speaker 1: probably fifty percent of the races he's won on that

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Speaker 1: intra team pace front. I thought it was really interesting

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Speaker 1: what Andrea Stella said afterwards as so supposed to sell

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Speaker 1: to Oscar, which is that the future belongs to Oscar,

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Speaker 1: and I think that this is a recognition. He said

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Speaker 1: that the Oscar should be this is an investment in

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Speaker 1: his future. If he backs Norris this year, that will

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Speaker 1: come back to that will pay him back in future yars.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's more than just an argument to

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Speaker 1: play the team game. Because you race for the team,

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Speaker 1: you need to keep the team happy. That's obviously part

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Speaker 1: of it. But I think if there's a recognition, and

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Speaker 1: I can't help but think this must be growing in

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Speaker 1: Lando Norris, even if he wants to deny it to himself,

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Speaker 1: that Oscar has I think shown us enough in the

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Speaker 1: second year that he's on track to become the unquestioned

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Speaker 1: number one at McLaren in terms of pace. I don't

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Speaker 1: think that McLaren's going to write that into a contact

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. I think within a year or

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Speaker 1: two we'll see this not even being a question. I

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Speaker 1: think Oscar's on such a good trajectory that he will

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Speaker 1: simply have Norris covert. And that's what's kind of interesting.

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Speaker 1: Andreas Stale's almost just telling well, just wait this year,

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Speaker 1: like you're not quite there this year. Had the points

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Speaker 1: fall in your way earlier, it might have been the case,

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Speaker 1: but you're not quite there. But from next year onwards,

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Speaker 1: and if McLaren, as we all expect, he's in a

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Speaker 1: title winning frame next year, it's sort of like Oscars

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Speaker 1: to take for himself. And I think that's obviously his

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Speaker 1: Australian's very exciting. I think that just adds this other

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Speaker 1: interesting element to this driver dynamic that, after all the

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Speaker 1: previewing before Piastre joined the team last season, is finally

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Speaker 1: starting to bubble up into something that could become really

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Speaker 1: quite a fascinating rivalry. So I'll wait and see. Obviously

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00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,200
Speaker 1: that's a question for later down the track this season

434
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,880
Speaker 1: and next year, but it should be really interesting. Let's

435
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 1: look now to the broader picture of the Italian Grand Prix.

436
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 1: Of course, Ferrari winning at home is always an exciting result.

437
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,640
Speaker 1: I think you really have to have a cold heart

438
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 1: not to get excited about Ferrari winning in ones. There

439
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,399
Speaker 1: After all, they do it so infrequently you may as

440
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,159
Speaker 1: well get excited. It's not as if they're dominating their

441
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: home race. Usually they're messing it up. But not this year,

442
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 1: and not this year despite having a relatively novel strategy,

443
00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 1: not in terms of the overall field. In fact, almost

444
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: half the drivers went for a one stop. But certainly

445
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 1: McLaren and the other front runners didn't see it coming,

446
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 1: and that speaks a couple of different things to me.

447
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 1: Matt one is a charlat Clair is in just tremendous form.

448
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: This is not the first time this year that we've

449
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 1: said at the end of a race he's really pulled

450
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 1: it out of the bag. In fact, the last three races,

451
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 1: getting podiums in Belgium and the Netherlands really required some

452
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 1: excellent driving. Second, Ferrari doing really well with its car.

453
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: We don't know exactly where it is, but it seems

454
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 1: to have recovered a little bit of that pace it's

455
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: been missing the middle of the year, particularly when it

456
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 1: comes to tire life and third thirty nine points down

457
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,679
Speaker 1: on Red Bull Racing in the Constructors Championship with eight

458
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: races to go.

459
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,120
Speaker 2: That's interesting, It is interesting.

460
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 3: I don't think it's realistic in terms of mounting any

461
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,640
Speaker 3: sort of serious challenge because I still think Red Bull

462
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,119
Speaker 3: is better and we've only seen to my mind, I

463
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,880
Speaker 3: take your point on Belgium and Zamvort, but we've only

464
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 3: seen race winning pace.

465
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 2: From McLaren from Frey rather in Italy.

466
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 3: And that was with the upgrade package that they had there,

467
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 3: and yes it was a sizable upgrade package. But the

468
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 3: Italian Grand Prix Monzo is such a unique circuit. I

469
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,360
Speaker 3: mean it was in Tarra Rousso and Alfatari win there.

470
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 3: We saw McLaren win there when it was in its doldrums.

471
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 3: It's such a unique circuit that you do get unusual

472
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 3: results somewhat frequently there. So I'm taking Charles's result with

473
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 3: a pincher salt. It's encouraging that he's been consistently competitive.

474
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 3: That's great, but I sort of put them on about

475
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 3: par with where Mercedes are in that on their day

476
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 3: potential race winners. When they're not on their day, you're

477
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 3: looking at seventh and eighth of that team. Such as

478
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 3: the nature of the top four teams that you know,

479
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 3: swinging it up and down from circuit to circuit, more

480
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:49,439
Speaker 3: for Ferrari and Mercedes than Red Bull and McLaren. Certainly

481
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 3: McLaren's pretty much, you know, first or second best team,

482
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 3: Red Bull first to third sort of thing. So yeah,

483
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 3: it was not only was Shah there, but Carla Science

484
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 3: was not far behind him as well. That was also encouraging.

485
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 3: But again just the Monza factor. Okay, it was a

486
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 3: race win, but mons are so unusual. They had the upgrades,

487
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 3: they always seemed to lift in Italy. I'm not sold

488
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 3: that know that thirty nine point margin. I think it's

489
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 3: going to grow rather than reduce.

490
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: I think the drivers probably agree with you. Both Charlo

491
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,120
Speaker 1: and Carla said, well, look it's good, but let's wait

492
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: before we make any definitive statements. I think it's not

493
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 1: surprising that, you know, Monza, the team did well, and

494
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 1: it's expecting to do well the next two races of

495
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: Azerbaijan in Singapore because coming out of the European season,

496
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 1: now we're at an increasing number of unusual tracks and

497
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: similar to the start of the year. I mean Mercedes

498
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: Ferrari one at Australia, which is a somewhat unusual track,

499
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: maybe not as much as an outlier as it used

500
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 1: to be on this expanding calendar, but.

501
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 2: Still is, but needed failures in Australia to win.

502
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 1: It did, but it was competitive in Australia with Red

503
00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: Bull Racing. We don't know if it would have won,

504
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: but it was probably its most competitive race at the

505
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: start of the season before Monaco, so I think that

506
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 1: still speaks to a certain extent. And then Monica obviously

507
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: the king of unusual circuits, so I think it's unsurprising

508
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: that we now see them competitive as we return to

509
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: some non traditional circuits. But Carlos Science did say if

510
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: we get to the US, which is a back to

511
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: the first let's say regular kind of circuit are coming

512
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: up and the team is still competitive, then it can

513
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: feel confident, perhaps it's finally turned a corner. But I

514
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 1: think for me, what the interesting element of all of

515
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: that is is that this weekend, at least and with

516
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: a somewhat growing sense of confidence, Ferrari was ahead of

517
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: Red Bull Racing. Mercedes was ahead of Red Bull Racing.

518
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: Obviously McLaren was a head of Red Bull Racing. This

519
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: was okay, it was an outliers circuit. We put that asterisk,

520
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: the Monza asterisk on the result. But this does feel

521
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 1: like the continuation of a long downward trend for Red

522
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: Bull Racing. Six races in our own now that it

523
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: hasn't won. Maxist Happened was pretty scathing afterwards, although not

524
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: as let's say aggressive as he has been reviewing some

525
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 1: of his other defeats this year. Hungary springs to mind,

526
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: is a particularly in temperate response for a race that

527
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,719
Speaker 1: was mostly I think he's doing. Any case, said at

528
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: the moment, both championships are not realistic. I've said a lot,

529
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: and now it's up to the team to come up

530
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: with a lot of changes with the car, because we

531
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: basically went from a very dominant car to an undrivable

532
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: car in the space of six to eight months. It

533
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: certainly seems like it is the case because the start

534
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: of the year in such dominant fashion. If you're a

535
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: Red Bull Racing fan or one of maxis happens many

536
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 1: orange claud Baya clad fans, one might say the Bay

537
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: rules cheer squad, the orange order, the orange order. They

538
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: see that he should find that the orange order. Is

539
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 1: there any reason for optimism, because while we've seen things

540
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: can turn around relatively quickly in Formula one, these days

541
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 1: the decline's been going on for quite a while.

542
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 2: It has.

543
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 3: The Italian Grand Prix was really just another data point

544
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 3: in the slide of ball. It's interesting to hear what

545
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 3: Christian Horner said post race, which sort of echoed the

546
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 3: comments that maxis Stapping himself and made, but perhaps elongated

547
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 3: them a little bit. The stap and spoke of a

548
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,239
Speaker 3: lack of balance in the corfect he called the car

549
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 3: and monster. Christian Horner admitted that the car isn't necessarily bad.

550
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 3: It's just, you know, it's got the load. It does

551
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 3: everything well. It just doesn't insull confidence with the drivers

552
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 3: because it's got this balance issue. How you dial that

553
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 3: balance issue out is a big question. Mike balances what

554
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 3: Mercedes struggled with for two and a bit years. Balance

555
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 3: is what Ferrari has been battling with. Balance is what

556
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 3: McLaren discovered, and then there's preserved through all of the

557
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 3: upgrades over the last eighteen months or so. If you

558
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 3: listen to everything that Lando and Oscar say. They say

559
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 3: the car balance hasn't he really changed, We've just got

560
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 3: more load. As a result, they've got confidence. I've got

561
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 3: this predictability. They know with certainty what the car is

562
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 3: going to do and how to anticipate and do all

563
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 3: that sort of stuff. They can get the most out

564
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 3: of that car. The Red Bull could be a quicker car,

565
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 3: but if the drivers haven't got the confidence to push

566
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 3: it to the limit and extract everything out of it.

567
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 3: If they're only getting ninety five percent of that car

568
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 3: and comparatively McLaren's getting, say ninety six.

569
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,239
Speaker 2: Percent, then McLaren's going to win.

570
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 3: So there's a big engineering challenge that needs to happen

571
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 3: at Milton Keynes in pretty quick order.

572
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 2: It's got a little bit of time up at sleeve.

573
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 3: Obviously not with the Constructors Championship, but we do have

574
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 3: now Azerbaijan, where you don't have much in the way

575
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,959
Speaker 3: of high speed. Corners are all pretty stop starting nine

576
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 3: degree things, and then similarly in Singapore. Although it needs

577
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 3: to be noted that this year's car is it's an

578
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 3: evolution of last year's car, even if there are some

579
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 3: different ideas. Singapore last year was disastrous for Rebel, obviously

580
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 3: the only race all year that it didn't win, the

581
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 3: weakest race of the year for the team. So that

582
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 3: two race stretch will be important. But after that there's

583
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 3: three weeks in which it can really focus in the

584
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 3: fact I'm going to be focusing now, but it can

585
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 3: really knuckle down and churn out some parts and test

586
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 3: some stuff. What I'm concerned about, and this is something

587
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 3: that I've said previously about other teams, is correlation without

588
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 3: on track testing. The only way teams going to do

589
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 3: one track testing is on a Friday. Basically, they go

590
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 3: through digital testing through CFD and those sorts of things,

591
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 3: and they go through wind tunnel and validate hopefully those

592
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 3: numbers are the same. Then in an ideal world, you

593
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 3: plunker on the car and there is a validation of

594
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 3: what you saw in the digital world, in the wind

595
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 3: tunnel and on the track, and you can therefore you

596
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 3: have correlation against all three And maybe that's within a

597
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 3: certain tolerance.

598
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 2: But you have correlation.

599
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 3: Christian Hornet suggested that they don't have that what they're

600
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 3: seeing on track is now different to what they're seeing

601
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 3: in their other tools and that's a huge problem. And

602
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 3: that's not just pointing to this year, because keep in mind,

603
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,479
Speaker 3: they're developing next year car right now, so the problems

604
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 3: they're having now are going they're being baked into next

605
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 3: year's car. The wind tunnel that Rebel uses is old.

606
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 3: It does have limitations in building a new one, but

607
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 3: it's not online yet, won't be for some time. So

608
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 3: there are lots of little issues that's starting to creep in,

609
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 3: their correlation being probably the number one, because if they

610
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 3: can resolve that, everything gets a little bit easier. It

611
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily get faster. Is in that process to resolve

612
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 3: it faster, but at least they understand how they can

613
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 3: solve it, and then the next year they're going again.

614
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 2: But they don't want to wait that long. They can't

615
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 2: afford to wait that long.

616
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 3: There's tens of millions of dollars in the Constructors Championship

617
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 3: on the line, and there's a fourth world title for

618
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 3: makes of stuff on the line.

619
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 2: Here.

620
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought it was really interesting that Christian for

621
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: the first time, well first time I can remember him

622
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: saying it. Really I'm sure he probably did in previous years,

623
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: but that that correlation seemed to be missing. I can't

624
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: help but think back to Mercedes sort of saying as

625
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 1: it came out of the doldrums of the last few years,

626
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: that this was a big problem for its car development.

627
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: And it's not just that you lack the correlation, but

628
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,719
Speaker 1: then suddenly you lack the confidence in all of your

629
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: tools trying to figure out which part of the process

630
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: is going wrong and giving you those bad results. And

631
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: part of that is that these ground effect cars are

632
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: harder to simulate, particularly in the wind tunnel, because you

633
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: don't get the same You don't get really the fidelity

634
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: of the interaction between the car and the ground that

635
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: you do in the real world where the road is

636
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: uneven and bumpy and the tarmac difference is all that

637
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, And that makes it more difficult. And

638
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: I assume that must make it more difficult as we

639
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: get towards the end of these regulations where eyone's trying

640
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: to push everything to the nth degree, really trying to

641
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: push the envelope. But Mercedes took a long time to

642
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: not just recover from its problems, but to understand how

643
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: and why to trust its tools again. I think for

644
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: that that for me is almost the most concerning part

645
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: of Red Bull racing struggles, because it does suggest there

646
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: is a long road ahead, and like you sort of said,

647
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: this is the latest starter point in a trend that

648
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: is pointing downwards and has been not only just for

649
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: let's say a couple of months this year, since it's

650
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: started not winning races regularly. But Christian Hornet suggested and

651
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,239
Speaker 1: so both of the drivers, to be fair to them,

652
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: that actually these problems have been evident since the second

653
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: half of last year, but because of the pace advantage,

654
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: essentially we're deprioritized and now they're paying for it. So

655
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: really this is nearly a year of problems that haven't

656
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: been worked out of the car and as you say,

657
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: times running out not just on this year but on

658
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: next year's car. And then if you don't have a

659
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: trust in the tools you have and your win tunnel

660
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: on your processes, well, first of January next year is

661
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: when work on those twenty twenty six cars starts, and

662
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: that will set the tone for maybe a couple of

663
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: years under the new regulation. So it is a critical

664
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: inflection point for Red Bull Racing to overcome these problems.

665
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: We fascinating see if they can, but it has certainly

666
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: set us up for a really unexpectedly thrilling end to

667
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: this year, the year, considering the massive advantage it built

668
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: in both championships. Had it not been of those first

669
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: five races, we'd just be telling, oh, man, client's dominating,

670
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: how boring. But now we've got this really exciting chase

671
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: to the finish, fascinating seat how it pans out. But Matt,

672
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be an episode reviewing a Grand Prix if

673
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: we did not award the most important points, which, of

674
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 1: course for the alternative Championship, this.

675
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 3: Is the one that all the teams desperately want to win.

676
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 3: They don't even know it exists, but they desperately want

677
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 3: to not just team drivers yet, yeah, people that we

678
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 3: happen to walk past in the SUPERMANO.

679
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 2: Anyone is.

680
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 3: Is in contention for this, and you don't even need

681
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 3: to be in contentional a year. We could just have

682
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 3: it off weekend and award someone ridiculous number of points

683
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 3: because we just didn't think about it all that carefully.

684
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 3: And that really summarizes this competition. We didn't think about

685
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 3: it that care I'll build this up really really high here,

686
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 3: So all right, we each give three three lots of

687
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 3: points positive usually my negative though. My first batch of

688
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 3: points are going to go to Kimi Antonell Nice. I'm

689
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 3: going to take ten points away for crashing in free

690
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 3: practice one. Yes, I don't think that's too harsh. I

691
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 3: think that's fair. The kid has an enormous amount of potential,

692
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 3: but it's inexcusable to bin the thing in free practice

693
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 3: one within ten minutes of your Formula one debut.

694
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,479
Speaker 1: He's very fast, though, wasn't it too fast?

695
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 2: Actually? Yeah, well that was a problem, wasn't it right?

696
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:24,439
Speaker 2: It's exactly the point.

697
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is unfortunate. He just felt like it had

698
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: to happen knowing that the contract announcement was coming less

699
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,240
Speaker 1: than twenty four hours later. It was just a perfect setup,

700
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: wasn't it. But yes, absolutely fair. I think that's fair.

701
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: I'm going to start on an unusually positive note by

702
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:45,399
Speaker 1: giving five points to Sergio Perez. A pretty ordinary race,

703
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: very rare for him to get points. I'm not even

704
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: sure if he's on the board at the moment, but

705
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,439
Speaker 1: I'm giving him five points for capitalizing on red bulls

706
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: racing struggles to try and save his own skin. Now

707
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: he finished more than sixteen seconds and two places behind

708
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: the Stappen, to which he reviewed. I wish the gap

709
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: had been a lot bigger and that Max was winning,

710
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: because at the end that will only help the team

711
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: in the Constructors Championship. I like that he's owning the

712
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: fact that he's contributing virtually nothing, but telling people that

713
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 1: he's no longer the team's biggest problem, emphasizing that he's

714
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: not the problem anymore. That level of rat cunning deserves

715
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: some points, and it's five for me.

716
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 2: I love how your mind has sected that. That's fantastic.

717
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 3: I didn't quite gone there, but yeah, that's that is

718
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 3: a special sort of Brethie. Massive, massive fan of that.

719
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 3: And since we're since we're being all positive, let's continue

720
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 3: to love. Then I'm going to give charloa Clair twenty

721
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,399
Speaker 3: five points because he drove superbly and who doesn't want

722
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 3: to see the.

723
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 2: Tafosi going absolutely.

724
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 3: Nuts below the podium in Monta. It's one of the

725
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 3: greatest sights in not just not just Formula one, not

726
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 3: just motorsport, but it all sport. It's up there with

727
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 3: whatever they do in badminton, for instance. Hamball probably have

728
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 3: something very similar as well, but Monza just pips it

729
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 3: for spectacle and to deliver that.

730
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 2: I think charleg did brilliantly.

731
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 1: Only the third win in the last sixteen years I

732
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 1: think for Ferrari at home, two of them for Charles, yes, yes, correct.

733
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 1: In fact, before this year they'd won the same amount

734
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 1: of races in that time as Alfatawi, so pulling ahead

735
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: in that critical rab or whatever.

736
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 2: So now Charles has got as many wins as.

737
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: Many wins, yes as the rival Italian team, traditional rival,

738
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: so very well. Down to Ferrari and to Charlott Clair

739
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: in particular. I'm going to continue giving some points as well.

740
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to give five points to James vals much

741
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: for the same reason as Sergio Peris for arguing, for

742
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: arguing with a straight face that it would have been

743
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: unfair on Logan sergeant not to sack Logan sergeants I quote,

744
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: it's almost unfair of him on him to continue with him.

745
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: It feels like sack him is fair to Logan. You

746
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 1: do feel like that today. I'm glad he gave himself

747
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: that little hout, but I hope he reflects on it

748
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: in the future that it was fair. So I love

749
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 1: that he look. I love he tried to dress it

750
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: up as a positive for Logan.

751
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 3: It's it's fascinating that you happen to give James Vows

752
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 3: five points, because I was going to take one hundred

753
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 3: and sixty eight thousand and one points away from him.

754
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 3: Given that you've just given him five points, I'm now

755
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 3: taking one hundred and sixty eight thousand and six away

756
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 3: from James OUs for exactly the same reason. We've looked

757
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 3: at it from different sides of the coin, really and

758
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 3: basically the reason I've given him that number of points

759
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 3: is so that he falls to.

760
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 2: The bottom of the list.

761
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 3: He's now below the British Grand Prix organizers who are

762
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 3: minus hundred and sixty eight thousand.

763
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 2: Yeah.

764
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,959
Speaker 3: I thought James comments, James vowles comments were inexcusable.

765
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 2: We're all thought out. How does that still confidence? Morale? Whatever?

766
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 3: If you're a prospective employee wanting to work there in

767
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 3: you know James bows is potentially going to go out

768
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 3: and slaughter you in public.

769
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 2: Do you want to work there?

770
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 3: And particularly savaging Logan sergeant the way he did When

771
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, mate, you were you were absolutely holding the

772
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 3: knife in terms of ruining his confidence. No, I wasn't

773
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 3: buying that at all, So While I appreciate him going

774
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 3: out there to try and put lipstick on the pig,

775
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,359
Speaker 3: it is still a pig. So no, minus one hundred

776
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 3: and sixty eight thousand and six points, which takes his

777
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 3: total to minus one hundred and sixty eight thousand and

778
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 3: one and puts him to the bottom of the standings.

779
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: Yes, I do think well, I mean you asked you

780
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: would want to go there. At least you know if

781
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: you go there, you'll be treated fairly regardless of how

782
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: you treated.

783
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 2: So we either treated either fairly well or just fairly badly.

784
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 3: Yeah.

785
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: Yes, so I like the guy. I think that's fair.

786
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 1: I think we've arrived at the right place. Boy is

787
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 1: going to need a big last eight races of the

788
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 1: season to cover from there. The fight really is on

789
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: at the back of that.

790
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 3: He needs to really maybe they need to get some

791
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 3: some indigo intent together. Shouldn't be organizers or maybe an

792
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 3: Aqua arrangement or some Marone management or a pink program.

793
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: Let me bring it home by taking one thousand points

794
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: off the unnamed McClaren management figure or committee. But thinking

795
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: Papya rules sounds like a genuine strategy rather than a

796
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: form of domestic football played exclusively in the Tropics, presumably

797
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: with papias which have I said this on the podcast

798
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: Bore and he recently discovered it the same as a

799
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 1: pawpor It's the same.

800
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 2: Fruit, all right, there you go.

801
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, so a thousand points off for them. I'm

802
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: not sure who that's the problem. I don't know who.

803
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: I don't know who does it? Maybe just McLaren.

804
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 3: McLaren's being absolutely decimated because there's strategistics on minus forty four.

805
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: Still, yes, well, I'm happy to award it to unnamed

806
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: management figure of McLaren. I think it was probably Zach Brown,

807
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: but no one's owning up to him.

808
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems a little bit hr doesn't it a.

809
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: Little bit too much? But I'm glad that we've at

810
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: least had this phrase injected into the season this year.

811
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: It's going to be a memorable one after a memorable

812
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 1: Italian Grand Prix. They're all our Alternatively, you've done your three,

813
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: I've done my three, and I wouldn't want to cut

814
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,919
Speaker 1: us short. That's all the championship points awarded for another week,

815
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:20,879
Speaker 1: and that's all the time we have for pit Talk

816
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 1: this week. But we will be back next week to

817
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: preview the Azerbaijan Grand Prix. You can subscribe to pit

818
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: Talk wherever you get your favorite podcasts, and you can

819
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: leave us a ratio and review as well, and you

820
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: can keep up to date with all the latest F

821
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: one news throughout the week at both Fox Sports dot

822
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,479
Speaker 1: com dot Au and Speedcafe dot Com. From Matt Castion

823
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: me Michael Amonado. Thanks very much for your company and

824
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 1: we'll catch you next week.