WEBVTT - #1772 What Water Should You Drink? - Dr. Bill Sullivan 0:00:00.880 --> 0:00:03.040 I'll get a team. Welcome to another installment of the show. 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:05.880 I hope you bloody terrific, Tiffany, and Cook is not 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:11.560 here selfishly, she's having fun doing something else. But you'll 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:13.480 listen to this because she's going to edit it. So 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:15.960 edit a way, tiff And I hope you will. But 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:19.440 Doctor Bill, thank god, it could really be a Doctor 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:22.439 Bill episode without Doctor Bill, although these days that is 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:27.080 becoming increasingly possible. But as best I can tell, the 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:31.400 real version is here, mate, how are you? I'm great? 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:34.640 And yes I can verify this as the real version 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:35.400 of Doctor Bill. 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:39.319 Yeah, I tell you what, how would you know if 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:44.519 it wasn't? Though I know, I know it's it's becoming scary. 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:47.400 We have a guy on a once a fortnight called Patrick, 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:49.920 and he's like our tech guy. We just talk about. 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:53.960 It's very light, it's fun, and it's all things tech, 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:56.520 of which I am. You know, I'm a dinosaur, so 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:59.400 I don't really I'm probably better than the average sixty 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:03.720 year old, but I'm certainly you know, I'm certainly very 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.200 low on the totem pole in terms of knowledge and 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:09.960 understanding of all things tech. But one episode we did, 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:13.800 we just started just like this bill, And he said, 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:17.640 how come I never get to host the show? How 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:19.800 come I never get to And he used to work 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:22.800 in radio, so he's very good in that. I said, 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:24.840 and this is live. I said, oh, would you like 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:27.559 to host today? I didn't know any of this was coming. 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.920 So he opened the show and he asked me a 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:35.560 question without letting me answer. He played an answer that 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:41.360 he'd recorded using my voice, right looks yeah, yeah, so 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:45.240 he deep faked my voice. Now if you if we 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:48.840 didn't tell you, you wouldn't know. So he did about 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:52.240 the first four minutes of the show on his own, 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:57.240 just asking these questions and then answering the and the 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:01.160 most ridiculous and inappropriate answers that made me look terrible. 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:04.560 Of course he did, but it was using it was 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:09.520 literally my voice, so you could not even me listening 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:11.040 to me, and I listen to a fair bit of me. 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:13.400 I'm like, wow, that is apart from the fact that 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:18.080 maybe the cadence or the timing was slightly different. But 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:20.920 if somebody didn't tell you, you would just think that 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:24.320 was me just answering his questions inappropriately, because obviously he 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:25.840 tried to throw me under the bus and make me 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:28.839 look bad. But and that was probably six months ago. 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.919 Way it's way better now. Yeah. Yeah, I actually have 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:35.520 to write. I had to write in the overview of 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:37.840 the notes, like I needed to explain to people the 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:41.160 first few minutes are not real. It's not me. I know, 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:45.280 it sounds like me. It's actually AI. Yeah, it's it's pretty. 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:51.560 It's like it's getting close to you know, indistinguishable, you 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:52.640 know video as well. 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:57.280 Yeah, that's really worrisome because in the wrong hands, you 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:01.920 can make or break somebody's life. With those sorts of stories, 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:05.720 you know, one, it's going to become even more difficult 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:08.000 for people to sort out fact from fiction. 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:11.839 Yeah, yeah, Well, one of the scams that they run, 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:13.639 I'm sure it runs in the States, but it happens 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:15.640 in Australia quite a bit, and it's been on the 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:17.640 news where they've warned about this. But one of the 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:21.959 scams is kids, Like people get a hold of their 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:27.040 kid's voices, like eight nine twenty year olds who are traveling, 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:31.160 who ring their parents and say, Mum, Dad, I'm stuck. 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:34.040 I need you to send me two thousand dollars or 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:38.320 and it's their voice and it's they're calling their parents. 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:42.080 I can't talk like I'm in trouble. You have to 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:45.080 please send me this. I'll call and explain later. But 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.200 I just need you to put this money in this account. 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:52.840 And it is their child's voice, and they are traveling, 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:56.760 and so then you get this distressed, emotional parent who 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:59.120 just wants to look after their kid, so they just 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:03.200 put this money in account. Yeah, that's right. What they've 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:06.360 encouraged kids to do and parents to do is to 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:09.720 have like a code word, and if they don't hear 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:12.720 that word, if that word isn't used or whatever, it 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:16.920 is that kind of safety net, that verbal safety net 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:19.880 where people know there's a code word and if they 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:23.400 don't hear the code words. So yeah, but it's getting 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.200 into scary territory, doc. 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:28.719 And it certainly is. That code word idea is a 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:32.120 good one. I wasn't aware of this. Maybe that is 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.320 a problem in the States too. I imagine it will 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:38.880 be a global phenomenon shortly, because wherever a new technology 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:42.200 seeps in, there's always going to be a cadre of 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:44.640 nefarious people who take advantage of it. 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.640 In the worst wheeze, Yeah, definitely nefarius. We don't hear 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.440 that word enough, all right, so you wrote or you 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:55.040 were involved in a couple of articles that got quite 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:59.039 a bit of airtime and attention recently. So we're going 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:01.480 to talk about that, which I'm excited because a totally 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:03.440 different topic for us. But one of them was about 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:05.800 fluoride in drinking water, and one of them was about 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:09.640 raw water or drinking raw water. So if you're okay, 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:12.760 we're going to start with the fluoride one. So the 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:16.040 title of the fluoride article was, yes, fluoride in your 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:19.159 drinking water is a good thing. And there's been I'll 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:20.760 get out of your way in a moment, but there's 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:24.680 been a bit of conjecture and debate about this, and 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:28.800 I think RFK Robert Kennedy Junior, has been an advocate 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:32.680 for getting rid of fluoride, and he's now got a 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.320 new position in By the way, there's something big happening 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:37.240 tomorrow in your neck of the woods. But we'll talk 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:40.360 about that maybe later. But so there are quite a 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.880 few people who are saying, obviously it's not the moment 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:47.560 the majority, it's a minority, but that fluoride in the 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:51.000 water could be a bad thing. So tell us, tell 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:52.000 us what we need to. 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:57.320 Know, right, So I did not expect twenty twenty five 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:01.080 to be the year of water for me, so I 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:06.640 had a couple of reporters contact me recently. Most of 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:10.600 this is driven by the whole RFK Junior phenomenon, which 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:16.359 is in my mind, just absolutely insane. But he is 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:22.560 a proponent of a lot of very controversial and dangerous 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:27.400 health items, and like you said, one of the things 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:31.640 he's been pushing is the removal of this tiny amount 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:36.760 of fluoride that we add to tap water just about 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:39.520 everywhere in the United States. Many other countries do the 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:43.000 same thing, because almost one hundred years ago, it was 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:49.440 discovered that areas where there was naturally more fluoride in 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:54.279 the water naturally okay, there were fewer cavities and dental problems. 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:58.120 So a correlation was made, and then we had literally 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:03.279 one hundred years of stuff buddies that link fluoride to 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:07.960 better oral health Okay, fewer cavities, less gum disease, and 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:12.840 so on. So it was decided about seventy five years 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:17.120 ago that the United States would add fluoride into the 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:22.360 tap water in order to help people mitigate and preemptively 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:27.480 strike you dental problems. Fluoride works in two ways. 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:28.680 It is a. 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:32.640 Part, it's a natural part of the enamel of the teeth, 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.480 and without it, the enamel is very weakened, so you 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:40.320 need fluoride for good enamel. The other thing it does 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:43.840 is it's an antimicrobial agent, which means it'll kill bacteria. 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:48.480 Bacteria like to accumulate on our teeth. They formed this biofilm, 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:52.320 They release acids and that's what starts drilling, drilling the 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:56.520 holes and teeth, so it kills those bacteria as well. 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:59.920 So you got this nice one two punch that fluoride 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:05.680 can deliver that study show substantially improve dental health time 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:09.280 and time again. And the most convincing part of this 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:13.040 craig is that, you know, it's been controversial ever since 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:16.600 it was introduced because there was a proponent of people 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:19.840 saying that this is not natural, which is bogus. It 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:24.360 is natural. Fluoride is natural out in the environment. Of course, 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:26.800 you can ingest too much of it. You can ingest 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:27.480 too much. 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:28.960 Of anything, okay. 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:32.240 You can ingest too much water alone, and if you 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:34.760 do so too quickly, water will kill you. 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:35.760 Okay. 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:39.680 So it's all about the dose, and the dose that 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.600 the EPA has set for the United States is far 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:47.760 below any toxicity level that's been associated with the many 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:53.720 studies that have been done. So for someone to cling 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:59.199 to some very weird studies or crazy ideas that fluoride 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.480 is still after all this time, presenting some kind of 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:06.800 health danger, to me, that's an extraordinary claim at this point, 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:10.600 and you better have a bountiful mountain of evidence to 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:13.960 back up your claims that this is harmful in some way. 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:17.840 And I'm not talking about a mouse study where you 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:22.320 gave it, you know, ridiculous levels of fluoride over a 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:26.040 short period of time and then say it causes cancer. Well, 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:29.000 of course, but that you can't. That's not congruent to 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:33.280 what we put into the tap water. So all the 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.640 studies that RFK Junior and the anti fluoride people like 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.760 to cite have serious problems like that, and they're not 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.760 really equivalent to what we're what the EPA is doing 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:43.680 with our tap water. 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:48.720 Yeah, it's this is a pot of science, and you'll 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:58.080 way more qualified and you know, knowledgeable in this spice. 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:00.560 But you know, for me, it's just interesting. I guess 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:04.600 I'm somewhere between the average punter who has never done 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:09.280 any research in an academic or an organized research capacity, 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:13.160 and I'm somewhere in the middle between them and you. 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:15.840 And for me, it's just as I've at a very 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.959 elderly age, dived into doing a PhD and having done 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:23.880 an undergraduate degree decade literally decades ago, and then starting 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:27.360 this research journey and then reading you know that I 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:30.000 needed to for my own research. I needed to get 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:33.080 all the background and as you would understand, read way 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:36.160 too many papers and try to understand and work through 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:40.080 what's relevant and what's valid and the methodology and you 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:45.960 know how how flawed that model or that design or 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.760 that study might be, and you know the risk of 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:50.440 bias of all of that. I just did a risk 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:54.840 of bias assessment on one hundred and twelve papers or no, 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.840 about five hundred studies in one hundred and twelve papers. 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.360 That was a nightmare. But yeah, it's like people tend 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:03.360 to if people have a belief or an idea, or 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:07.000 an emotional attachment to a concept, it's like they'll almost 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:13.199 find anything that might support that. While not really understanding. 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:15.440 Now I'm not advocating one way or the other. Well, 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:18.160 I'm probably in the let's keep Florrida in the water 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:22.200 camp to be honest, but like trying to understand that 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:26.640 not all science is necessarily science. You know, I know 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:31.640 that sounds silly, but there's so much I didn't realize how. 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.880 There's a word in Australia which is dodgy, and basically 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.840 that just means untrustworthy, unreliable. But there's so much dodgy 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:41.960 science there can be. 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:46.400 And I look at it from a professional standpoint as preliminary. 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.640 You know, it's a preliminary study, and the public needs 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:54.719 to understand that there are studies that are done that 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.640 may have a very small sample size. They may be 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:01.920 done in cultured cells, they may be done in rodent models, 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:06.040 and you've got to be very careful conservative with those 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:10.200 interpretations because if you start extrapolating those findings into what 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:14.040 might be happening in humans, that's a really reckless thing 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:18.880 to do. So you have to compare it to what 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.120 we like to use in the sciences. Is something called 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:24.520 a meta analysis, and you may have heard of these, 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:28.760 they're used quite commonly now, which is a study of studies. 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.480 All right, So you compile a whole bunch of studies 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:36.200 that look at the effects of fluoride in water and 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.400 some of the papers that you might have mentioned or 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:43.640 that RFK junior sites will be included in this study. 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:45.680 And what happens at the end of the day is 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:49.480 they are dwarfed. These negative effects are dwarfed by the 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:53.920 mountains of evidence that say fluoride is perfectly safe. In fact, 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.160 if we remove it from the water, it's going to 0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:00.079 cause much more harm. So the cost benefit ratio, at 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:02.560 least with the current evidence that we have in hand, 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:05.440 is that removing fluoride from the water is going to 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:09.600 cause a lot more harm than good. Being a scientist, 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:12.520 we're always open to new data and new evidence, and 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:17.480 if something you know surfaces and is published in a 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.720 reputable peer review journal that is beyond preliminary, that looks 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.600 more unequivocal, or has been repeated by multiple independent groups, 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:29.000 then we got something to discuss. Until then, we are 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:34.240 wasting resources talking about this. It's just it's a no brainer. 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:38.040 Seventy five years people are not dying of the types 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:42.839 of cancers that he's implicating here. If what he said 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.840 is true, we would have a massive outbreak of bone 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.080 cancer in the United States. Given how many millions of 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:55.199 people have ingested fluoride over the past seven decades, and 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:58.280 we do not see that, Craig. These claims are just 0:13:58.600 --> 0:13:59.720 simply false. 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:06.600 Yeah, it's I'm reading your article. I was interested to 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.320 see that. Trying to find it. I think it said 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:12.839 sixty three percent of the US population. This was a 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:16.680 few years ago, maybe twenty twenty. Sixty three percent of 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:23.400 the population that access to fluoridated water, but which made 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:25.720 a third of the population didn't. 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:28.560 That's a lot still, right, That's a lot of people. 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.960 So what those people by and large are on well 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:36.200 water or some other sort of non tapwater. You know, 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:41.760 we're talking about rural areas, and those individuals usually receive 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:46.560 additional fluoride treatments at their dentist, right, so if they can't, 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:48.960 you know, and some of that tap water may be 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.480 rich in fluoride greg it may have even more than 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:56.840 what you've found in tapwater, Okay, because you can go 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.480 to water sources all around the world and you're going 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:03.000 to find varying mineral content, and fluoride is one of 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.960 those minerals that's going to vary depending on the location. 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:08.320 So some of the people who might be on well 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.440 water may even be ingesting more fluoride than what's in 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:14.160 the tapwater because the tap water levels are very low. 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.360 Okay, so I was going to do these separately, but 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.720 I actually think we can kind of synthesize these two 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:24.920 articles so the other we can maybe jump back and forth. 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:29.080 But so the other article that you contributed to quite 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:33.200 a lot was it was called no, raw water isn't 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:36.440 healthier than tap It could actually make you very sick. 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:40.840 And so raw water is when I first heard that, 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.360 I'm like, what is raw water? And then of course, 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:48.000 so raw water is essentially out of a creek, it's rainwater, 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:53.480 it's from springs or streams or various untreated sources. But 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.760 it's just water that hasn't been through any kind of 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:59.280 process to be affected by anything. 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.520 Am I that that's right? And it was news to 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:04.880 me too. I heard a raw milk, you know, non 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.280 pasteurized milk, but raw water was a new one for me, 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:11.560 and it took me by surprise that people were even 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.080 considering doing this. 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:16.320 You know, it's just it. 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.640 Of course, I'm a microbiologist, so this kind of stuff 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:25.840 really alarms me. But the idea that we live in 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:29.160 you know the United States or Australia, these technically developed 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:33.360 nations who have water purification systems that are the envy 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.520 of the world. Okay, our nations have some of the 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:40.000 safest water you can possibly drink, and then you got 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:41.880 someone who wants to go out and drink out of 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:45.200 a puddle. I mean, it's just what are you thinking? 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:46.360 What are you doing here? 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:51.480 And it's just the same with the fluoride people. These 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:58.000 individuals are you know, vilifying fluoride. They're vilifying tap water, 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:03.680 and they're doing it through these immaculate teeth okay, beautiful 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:09.160 and teeth, I know, cavities, white teeth. They are denigrating 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:14.320 the very processes that gave them good dental hygiene. And 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:16.560 I think it's just a slap in the face. It's 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:21.400 so insensitive to underprivileged nations around the world who would 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:26.240 give anything to have just a fraction of the water 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:30.640 purification infrastructure that we enjoy in our nations. 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:34.359 I mean, it's just it angers me. 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:38.760 It saddens me that these privileged people are vilifying the 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:42.600 very things that make our water supply so safe. And 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.600 what other things scare me is that some of the 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:49.840 government agencies in the US which are now as of tomorrow, 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:55.080 going to fall under you know, under the Trump administration, 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:59.719 they're going to control these agencies. There's a lot of 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:01.679 check and talk. I don't know if it's going to 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:03.679 actually pan out, but there's a lot of chatter and 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.639 talk that these agencies their funding is going to be cut. 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:10.600 And when that happens, these agencies shrink in size and 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.840 we don't have the public services or the quality that 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:17.879 we normally enjoy that's associated with them. These are the 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:22.800 last types of things that should be cut. You're damaging 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.399 society by making cuts like this. 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:27.880 And you know, it's just. 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:31.960 It's just a really sad situation that a lot of 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:36.040 people I understand suspicion and government. It's justified to a 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.040 certain degree, but there are parts of government that do 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:43.000 a really great job at keeping you safe, and those 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.800 are not the areas you want to cut. And if 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.600 you fool around and find out, it's going to cause 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:51.520 a lot of pain and suffering and possibly even death. 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:55.280 Why go down this road. Give you a quick example. 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.639 We already know what's going to happen if we remove 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:03.040 fluoride from the water, because Buffalo, a city in New York, 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:07.480 did that back in twenty fifteen without telling the public, 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:12.160 which is a whole other can of worms. Wow, officials 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:16.400 removed fluoride from the water without the public knowing about it. 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:18.240 So unbeknownst to. 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:22.679 The public, all the kids in Buffalo were getting alarming 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:25.639 amounts of cavities all of a sudden, their dental health 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:30.720 was plummeting, they were having oral surgeries, gum disease. And 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:34.679 then an investigative reporter in twenty twenty three finally figured 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:38.520 out that officials removed fluoride from the water. It was 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:44.320 immediately reinstated in twenty twenty four after massive amounts of 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.840 lawsuits and there's a first class action lawsuit and process now, 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:52.120 so we know what's going to happen if we take 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:54.639 fluoride out of the water. Do we want every city 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:58.160 in America to suffer what Buffalo just did. 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:04.080 I just don't understand this. It's so funny, Like, yeah, 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:05.879 this is why I love having these chats with you, 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:10.719 because I mean literally, like like our listeners, I'm literally 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:16.159 learning as I'm going. I heard RFK on Joe Rogan. 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:22.440 Obviously the pinnacle of scientific conversation, right, It's like it's 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:25.639 the high water mark forget all your journals listening to 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:29.920 Joe Rogan and JFK anywhere you go anyway anyway. 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:32.720 Well you're unfortunately, you're right, you're not alone. A lot 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:35.199 of people will actually go to a program like that 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:37.520 and believe that's what's true. 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:43.440 Well that was. Yeah, Like, I'd never thought about fluoride 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:48.679 in water until I heard him. And I know the 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.679 other guy's name, but I could be getting him mixed up, 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:53.320 so I won't say his name, but I'm pretty sure 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.080 it was RFK. Might have been a guy called Gary 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:58.600 Brecker everyone. I could be wrong on that, but anyway, 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:02.080 but there was a conversation around the dangers and I'm 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:04.560 listening to this and I'm thinking, fuck, I didn't know this. 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:06.600 I'm going to have to I'm going to have to 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:08.960 get a I'm going to have to just start drinking 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:12.360 from the creek or I'm going to, like, we get 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:15.320 the dangers of that too. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:18.199 have to filter out the bloody fluoride because that's going 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:20.160 to kill me and my bones are going to break 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:23.440 and I'm going to fall down and die three decades early. 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:27.679 But when it's presented in a way, I mean, this 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:30.560 is the thing, is you then, and I'm not saying 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:34.080 obviously not with everything. Of course, I think we do 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:36.520 need to question things. I do wouldn't think we need 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.520 to pay attention to real research, but that's one of 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:42.919 the things is and I think there are lots of 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:45.280 things that do need to be spoken about, you know, 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:48.800 and not behind closed doors, but publicly, even if it's 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:52.160 just for debate, and even if it's just for transparency. 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:55.639 And you know, I remember I've spoken to you maybe 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.359 about this, but I remember doctor Bill for twenty thirty 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:01.480 years teaching the food pyramid because I thought that was 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.399 the best science, you know, and I thought low fat, 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:06.840 high sugar, or not high sugar, but low fat was 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:09.680 the best because that's the And then it turns out 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:12.880 probably not the best. And then but that you learn 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:15.840 more or you come to a new understanding or awareness 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:18.719 or knowledge or data, and you go, all right, I 0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:21.040 got it wrong. So I think there's always that's got 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:23.399 to be like, we need to be open, as you said, 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:26.840 until we get more research that contradicts our current research. 0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:30.080 Let's stay with what we actually know rather than what 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:35.919 someone thinks. But the truth is, like everyone has an 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:40.040 emotional attachment to something, you know, and so when you 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:44.359 hear people that are basically evangelizing something which seems in 0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:49.359 terms of our current thinking, somewhat counterintuitive. You've got to 0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:54.720 wonder what that is just objective reality and what is emotion? 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:57.760 And what is a sales pitch like you got to 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:01.760 and then the general public me in that, I don't know, 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:04.760 you're just trying to filter me. I don't know. I'm listening, 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:07.760 like I listened to you, and I go well with this. 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:10.960 You know infinitely more than me, and I trust you 0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:14.200 and like you, so I'm in right. But you can 0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:17.760 do that with other people as well. But maybe they're not. 0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:21.000 You know, maybe they even think they're right, but they're not. 0:23:22.400 --> 0:23:25.679 Well, that's possible. Confirmation bias is a real thing. You 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:29.199 alluded it alluded to that earlier. So these individuals like 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:33.120 they glom on to these few studies that look alarming, 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:35.640 if you don't do a deeper dive on them, and 0:23:35.680 --> 0:23:37.959 you don't compare them to the wealth of literature that 0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:41.400 contradicts them, you can really glom onto that and get 0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:44.240 sucked down into a vortex of oh my gosh, this 0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:47.200 fluoride stuff is really horrible. This is this is going 0:23:47.240 --> 0:23:50.960 to kill people. When it's panic, it's alarm, and the 0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:54.040 whole reason they're doing this is so they can get attention, 0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:59.439 get clicks, get ratings. This is really reckless behavior and 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:04.600