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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, January sixth, twenty twenty six. Pressure is mounting

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Speaker 1: on Anthony Albanezi to call a royal commission into the

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Speaker 1: Bondai massacre. As Treasurer Jim Chalmers says, the calls from business,

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Speaker 1: sporting and community leaders make sense. That's as the government

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Speaker 1: prepares to recall Federal Parliament early to debate new laws,

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Speaker 1: and the States scramble to bring their outdated gun registers

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Speaker 1: up to scratch. Check out all the latest on the

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Speaker 1: Bondai aftermath at the Australian dot Com dot A you

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Speaker 1: what really happened to Virginia Dufray as her family wrangles

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Speaker 1: over the American Australian mother's estate. Her impact is still

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Speaker 1: reverberating in the United States, Australia and especially the United Kingdom.

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Speaker 1: The man once known as Prince Andrew, Duke of York,

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Speaker 1: is starting the new year as plain Old Andrew Mountbatten Windsor.

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Speaker 1: That's after the King decided to evict him from a

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Speaker 1: mansion on the Windsor estate and consign him to wintry Norfolk. Today,

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Speaker 1: I speak with one of our most thoughtful and experienced journos,

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Speaker 1: Paige Taylor, about how she suddenly found herself reporting the

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Speaker 1: mysterious last days of Andrew's accuser, Virginia Dufray. Paige Taylor

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Speaker 1: is The Australian's West Australian Bureau Chief, which means she

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Speaker 1: covers an incredibly broad array of stories as well as

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Speaker 1: her day job as our Indigenous Affairs editor page. How

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Speaker 1: did you come to be reporting on Virginia Dufrey, who

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Speaker 1: was one of the accusers of Jeffrey Epstein and Prince

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Speaker 1: Andrew Earlier in twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: I remember I saw an Instagram post by Virginia Giuffrey

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Speaker 2: and it was that now quite recognizable photo of her

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Speaker 2: and what appeared to be the back of an ambulance

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Speaker 2: with bruises all over her face, and the message underneath

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Speaker 2: was really detailed and quite distressing, and I thought, this

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Speaker 2: is extraordinary.

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Speaker 3: This year has been the worst start to a new year.

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Speaker 3: But I won't bore anyone with the details.

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Speaker 1: We've used an AI voice to read Virginia Guphray's post.

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Speaker 3: But I think it's important to note that when a

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Speaker 3: school bus driver comes at you driving one hundred and

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Speaker 3: ten kilometers as we were slowing for a turn that

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Speaker 3: no matter what your car is made of, it might

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Speaker 3: as well be a tin can. I've gone into kidney

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Speaker 3: renal failure. They've given me four days to live, transferring

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Speaker 3: me to a specialist hospital in urology. I'm ready to go,

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Speaker 3: just not until I see my babies one last time.

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Speaker 3: But you know what they say about wishes, shit in

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Speaker 3: one hand and wish in the other, and I guarantee

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Speaker 3: it's still going to be shit at the end of

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Speaker 3: the day. Thank you all for being the wonderful people

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Speaker 3: of the world and for being a great part of

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Speaker 3: my life. God bless you all. Virginia.

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Speaker 2: So I immediately looked around to see whether the Australian

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Speaker 2: knew about this. Our London correspondent, of course, Jacqueline Magne

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Speaker 2: was already onto it, and a few hours from then

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Speaker 2: I was up and working and helping Jacqueline get that

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Speaker 2: story together.

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Speaker 1: She was clearly a woman who at that time of

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Speaker 1: her life was in some distress, you know, apart from

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Speaker 1: what seemed to be physical injuries. She was posting on

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Speaker 1: Instagram about a messy family situation. She was clearly very unhappy.

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Speaker 1: What was your sense of the truth of what had

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Speaker 1: happened to Virginia Giffrey.

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Speaker 4: I was pretty doubtful.

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Speaker 2: I have to be candid about that, because the timings

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Speaker 2: of that photograph and her arrival at the hospital.

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Speaker 4: Once I'd established the arrival time, it didn't match.

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Speaker 5: To me.

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Speaker 2: It seemed like the had been taken sometime earlier, perhaps

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Speaker 2: from an earlier hospital visit, which immediately made me skeptical

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Speaker 2: about other things she was saying. And then I established

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Speaker 2: that the bus crash she'd referred to happened on March

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Speaker 2: twenty four, not that day, not in the early hours

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Speaker 2: of April one, or even in the last few hours

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Speaker 2: of March. It had been a week earlier. I also

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Speaker 2: established she was an a renal patient at the hospital

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Speaker 2: she was taken to. When you hear that something isn't right,

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Speaker 2: you start to wonder what else isn't right, and it

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Speaker 2: can make things you are saying that are true questionable.

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Speaker 2: So I was trying to withhold judgment about that. But

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Speaker 2: I was also aware that the more I looked, the

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Speaker 2: more the statements in that social media post were just

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Speaker 2: not rite. I could tell that something incredibly awful was

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Speaker 2: going on in this person's life. To even make a

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Speaker 2: social media post like that, there needs to be a

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Speaker 2: certain level of chaos right That dawn me pretty quickly

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Speaker 2: as well. I started to feel a lot of sympathy

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Speaker 2: for this person too. She was obviously not in a

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Speaker 2: good place. I don't mean physically, I mean she was

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Speaker 2: clearly in a lot of distress.

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Speaker 1: Not long afterwards, a few weeks later, she was found

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Speaker 1: dead at her home in New Gabby in Western Australia.

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Speaker 1: What do we know now, Paige, about what caused her death?

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Speaker 2: Well, I know there's been a lot of speculation about

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Speaker 2: whether or not it was suicide. That seems fairly plain

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Speaker 2: on the evidence that has become public so far. It

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Speaker 2: does look that she took her own life, and that

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Speaker 2: was at the end of a long period of torment.

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Speaker 2: She had been suffering for a long time. Her marriage

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Speaker 2: had broken up, according to her social media posts, she

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Speaker 2: had no contact with her children, and I think the

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Speaker 2: episode at the hospital was fairly calamitous. It must have

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Speaker 2: been a world of pain for her.

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Speaker 1: Six months later, her memoir was published, Nobody's Girl. It's

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Speaker 1: quite a remarkable book and it details her journey. I

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Speaker 1: guess from a very sad childhood of abuse that she

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Speaker 1: alleges against various people working at Donald Trump's resort mar

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Speaker 1: A Lago, where she met Glenn Maxwell. While working in

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Speaker 1: the spa WHI, she had dreams of being a massage therapist,

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Speaker 1: ended up being trafficked to Jeffrey Epstein by Glenn Maxwell.

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Speaker 1: This is her allegation, and then sort of descended into

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Speaker 1: a life of basically being a sex slave.

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Speaker 5: What's in the next few weeks. Jeffren Gilande told me

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Speaker 5: that I need to quit my job with mile Ilgo

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Speaker 5: because I'll be traveling with them as they're traveling massuse.

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Speaker 1: This is from the TV mini series Surviving Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 1: Virginia Giuffrey alleges she was sexually assaulted by both Jeffrey

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Speaker 1: Epstein and Glenn Maxwell and subsequently trafficked and abused for years.

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Speaker 5: It was abuse straight away from both of them. I

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Speaker 5: got paid two hundred dollars and the butler drove me home.

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Speaker 1: The book had a massive impact, didn't it.

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Speaker 2: He really did, and reading it makes me sad every

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Speaker 2: time I go back to that book that it didn't

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Speaker 2: come out while she was alive. She never got to

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Speaker 2: see the reaction to that book.

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Speaker 4: It is compelling.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you what else I think is compelling is

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Speaker 2: entitled by Andrew Lowney, the British journalist. He goes into

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Speaker 2: quite a bit.

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Speaker 4: Of detail about what happened to Virginia.

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Speaker 2: He talks about Andrew picking her photo out from emails

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Speaker 2: that Epstein sent like a catalog. It was fairly awful

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Speaker 2: revelations in that book too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and he looks very closely at the life of

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Speaker 1: Prince Andrew and Sarah Ferguson, of course, the former Duke

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Speaker 1: and Duchess of York, who don't have that title anymore.

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Speaker 1: Prince Andrew's no longer to be regarded as a prince.

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Speaker 1: He's now known as just Andrew Mountain Baton Windsor. Was

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Speaker 1: your sense, just from observing Virginia Deupray and reading her words, Paige,

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Speaker 1: that the king's decision to strip all those honors from Andrew,

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Speaker 1: to kick him out of his house on the Windsor estate,

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Speaker 1: is that something that she would have wanted?

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Speaker 4: I think so.

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Speaker 2: It feels like the kind of response that she had

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Speaker 2: been seeking but not getting for a long time. Of course,

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Speaker 2: Andrew has denied all of this.

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Speaker 4: Throughout. Andrew has suffered.

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Speaker 2: An epic global humiliation, one that he had been trying

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Speaker 2: to avoid for a long time, and I suspect one

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Speaker 2: that maybe at some point he thought wouldn't come. I

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Speaker 2: think what Charles has done is what a lot of

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Speaker 2: people hoped the Queen would have done, And of course

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Speaker 2: she didn't. She stood by her son in lots of ways,

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Speaker 2: and I think that in a lot of people's minds

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Speaker 2: had meaning. There was something in the fact that the

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Speaker 2: Queen didn't strip him of his titles that made some

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Speaker 2: of us wonder, oh, is that photo real? Is Giffrey

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Speaker 2: telling the truth? But times amazing, isn't it? A lot

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Speaker 2: of details come out since then, a lot, and I

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Speaker 2: have no doubt these days that that photo is real.

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Speaker 1: We've said, and we have to keep saying. Of course

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Speaker 1: that Andrew's denied ever even meeting Virginia Gupray, and he

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Speaker 1: says that he has no recollection of her whatsoever. You'd

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Speaker 1: expect he's going to stick to that now. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the life that awaits him now is sad, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: He's going to end up on the Sandringer mistate apparently

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Speaker 1: now in Norfolk, very bleak, very lonely. Gill and Maxwell

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Speaker 1: the person who allegedly trafficked Virginia, then roberts to Jeffrey

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Speaker 1: Epstein is also in prison now on some sort of

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Speaker 1: minimum security prison. Farmer.

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Speaker 5: I believe I'm calling BS on this because that's what

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Speaker 5: it is. He knows what happened. I know what happened,

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Speaker 5: and there's only one of us telling the truth, and

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Speaker 5: I know that's me.

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Speaker 1: This is Virginia and Guphrey speaking to the BBC's program Panorama.

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Speaker 5: I implore the people in the UK to stand up

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Speaker 5: beside me, to help me fate this fate, to not

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Speaker 5: accept this as being okay. This is not some sordid

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Speaker 5: sex story. This is a story of being trafficked.

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Speaker 1: I was at a lunch recently page where an older

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Speaker 1: lady was saying she didn't believe any of what Virginia

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Speaker 1: dufrocclaimed that you know, she was just a prostitute and

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Speaker 1: that she was probably star struck by meeting the prince,

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Speaker 1: and the book was an attempt to get attention. I

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Speaker 1: know you and I have a pretty different view about that.

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Speaker 1: There's a value, isn't there in a memoir like that

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Speaker 1: in kind of setting out how you go from being

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Speaker 1: a innocent young girl to being a kind of abused victim.

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Speaker 4: Some people call it my truth.

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Speaker 2: I really do not like that phrase because it gets

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Speaker 2: used so much and it loses its meaning, and some

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Speaker 2: people use my truth to put forward things that are

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Speaker 2: just off the charts.

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Speaker 4: But you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 2: There's something so powerful person being able to tell their

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Speaker 2: story their way. And it doesn't mean it's the definitive version,

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Speaker 2: but I feel like I understand a lot more having

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Speaker 2: read that book, and I have a lot of sympathy

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Speaker 2: for that girl. I got an email from a reader

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Speaker 2: a few months ago which has made me think stayed

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Speaker 2: with me, and this reader said Virginia did not have

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Speaker 2: to do those things. She did them for money, and

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Speaker 2: even on Virginia's own version of events, that's absolutely right.

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Speaker 2: She did do those things for money. But she was

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Speaker 2: a seventeen year old girl and she had been abused,

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Speaker 2: and perhaps she thought that was her only option. Whichever

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Speaker 2: way you look at it, it's still terribly sad that

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Speaker 2: a seventeen year old girl was being picked out like

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Speaker 2: an item from a catalog and told and this is

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Speaker 2: who you're with this evening.

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Speaker 1: That's the evil of a predator, isn't it to pay

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Speaker 1: a victim to make them feel like they're anticipating in

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Speaker 1: a transaction, as if two hundred dollars, which is what

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Speaker 1: she says she got paid for that first encounter with

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, in which they both, according to her, abused her.

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Speaker 1: But it's not enough for your innocence, is it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm old enough to have been Virginia's mother

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and one when she was introduced to Andrew,

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Speaker 2: according to her. And it's pretty grotesque to me. What's

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Speaker 2: wrong with someone who wants to pick out a seventeen

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Speaker 2: year old? And I don't get it myself, and I

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Speaker 2: think there are a lot of people my age who

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Speaker 2: don't like it.

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Speaker 4: We think there's something really gross about it.

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Speaker 1: That question of like what if this was your daughter,

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Speaker 1: what if this was your sister? You know, what if

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Speaker 1: this was you at seventeen? You know, I look back

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Speaker 1: at myself at seventeen, and I wouldn't have had the

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Speaker 1: ability to say no to powerful, rich people who wanted

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Speaker 1: me to do something, you know, even though I came

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Speaker 1: from a stable, loving home. I think people underrest to

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Speaker 1: Mayba agency of teenage girls because they seem confident all

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Speaker 1: they're young and beautiful and vibrant. They're still children. You're

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Speaker 1: still a child at seventeen, aren't you.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, I look at pictures of myself at seventeen.

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Speaker 2: I look like a grown up, but the stuff coming

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Speaker 2: out of my mouth was pretty childlike.

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Speaker 1: Thank god there was no Instagram page. Taylor is The

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Speaker 1: Australian's Indigenous Affairs editor and West Australian bureau chief. You

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Speaker 1: can check out her reporting anytime at The Australian dot

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Speaker 1: com dot au