Speaker 1: I'll get a team. It's you project. What else would
Speaker 1: it be? It's Jumbo, it's Harps. I hope this finds
Speaker 1: you well, Michael cat CDIs Hi, mate, how are you well?
Speaker 2: Thanks? Craig, how are you?
Speaker 1: I'm good, buddy? Did I fuck up that pronunciation? I
Speaker 1: didn't get it right?
Speaker 2: It's yeah either either.
Speaker 1: Either or well. I should have told you before we
Speaker 1: went live. Mate. We're a very liberal, laid back conversation.
Speaker 1: We're a very sweary affair. So feel freedom, you know, swear,
Speaker 1: but well you know, if you you don't need to.
Speaker 1: You don't need to moderate yourself here or with this audience.
Speaker 1: My audience are very familiar to colorful language. So I
Speaker 1: know where you are. But tell my audience where we find.
Speaker 2: You today, Brisbane Queen's Land.
Speaker 1: Have you been up there forever? You're born?
Speaker 2: There?
Speaker 1: Is that where you're from?
Speaker 2: Or did you know born in Timba? Yes? I was
Speaker 2: in Twimba most of my life and then with my
Speaker 2: career to went to the States. So I was in
Speaker 2: the States for six years. Then the later part of
Speaker 2: my career started progressing back to Australia. You know, I
Speaker 2: did like a bit of time training out of Melbourne,
Speaker 2: and then of course training Sydney with Johnny Lewis, and
Speaker 2: then back to my roots again, back to with my
Speaker 2: very first trainer, and then it's mean Gold Coast Brisbane.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you were a kid, did you want to
Speaker 1: be an athlete? Did you want to be a boxer?
Speaker 1: Did you like a little kid? Did you have aspirations?
Speaker 1: Is that what you wanted to do?
Speaker 2: Yeah, like a genetical kind of like it's well, my
Speaker 2: brother and I will both be the same. But for me,
Speaker 2: I would watch the Rocky movies. I was like seven
Speaker 2: years of age, and I saw like this guy's overcoming adversity.
Speaker 2: He had nothing, much like when I grew up as well,
Speaker 2: like we had nothing and come you know, and you know,
Speaker 2: I just said to myself from the age of seven,
Speaker 2: I want to be a champion. I planned the seed.
Speaker 2: Then I planned the seed then and it wasn't until
Speaker 2: I was about the age of eleven. I was eleven
Speaker 2: and a friend of mine took me down to the
Speaker 2: local PC y C. I put on a put on
Speaker 2: a set of gloves and ipp two black eyes and
Speaker 2: then I love that, you know, I want to get better,
Speaker 2: you know, so instead of the glass being half full,
Speaker 2: half empty. It was half fulled, you know, And I
Speaker 2: was keen to get back there and make sure next
Speaker 2: time that I didn't get beat up as badly. And
Speaker 2: I went back in the next week, I only got
Speaker 2: one black eye. I was like, I'm doing better.
Speaker 1: That's fifty percent improvement. Yeah that's hilarious. Yeah, well that's
Speaker 1: I mean that means you build for boxing, right, because
Speaker 1: most kids are going to get punched in the face
Speaker 1: and two black eyes and go fuck that. See you later.
Speaker 1: I'm going to take up fucking running or something.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I didn't see that.
Speaker 1: Yeah did you have Obviously you had an innate talent,
Speaker 1: but how much and you ended up being a world
Speaker 1: ampion and all of those things and Olympic athletes or
Speaker 1: fucking amazing. How much of your success do you reckon
Speaker 1: was innate talent? And how much do you reckon was work, discipline,
Speaker 1: self control, sweat?
Speaker 2: Yep? So, like world champions aren't made overnight. And then
Speaker 2: you asked any businessman, any successful person, whatever they do,
Speaker 2: it didn't happen overnight. And you know, and you know,
Speaker 2: some people look at other people that are wealthy and
Speaker 2: they say, oh, look, you're just lucky. You know, but
Speaker 2: it's not luck, you know, Like they'll tell you there's
Speaker 2: a strategy, there's certain things, there's certain things in their
Speaker 2: their genetics so to speak, as I said earlier, the
Speaker 2: things that they're in their makeup that brings them to
Speaker 2: being that. Like I wasn't just born being able to
Speaker 2: cop hits in the head, like I just told you earlier.
Speaker 2: You know, I got two black eyes, you know, but
Speaker 2: it was my my will to want to go back
Speaker 2: and be better at doing that. Like I found I
Speaker 2: found a love for it. I found an interest and
Speaker 2: as like an addiction, like I wanted to keep on
Speaker 2: doing so whatever whatever people I surrounded myself with, or
Speaker 2: was the people that were going to better me because
Speaker 2: I took an interest in what they do that we
Speaker 2: were interested in the same thing. We had like minded
Speaker 2: interest and and I want I want to growth and
Speaker 2: that was just naturally within me. Yeah, what was the.
Speaker 1: I'm always interested, Like I reckon, if I had been
Speaker 1: you mate and I went down I got punched in
Speaker 1: the face, I would have been fuck that, Like I know,
Speaker 1: I would have been right. I don't have whatever you have,
Speaker 1: I don't have. That doesn't mean that you know, it's yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's what was the driver for you. Did you
Speaker 1: did you associate being a boxer with well, if I'm
Speaker 1: a boxer, I can look after myself and I'll be safe,
Speaker 1: or did you associate it with getting out of you know,
Speaker 1: like poverty or you know, financial hardship, and thinking boxing
Speaker 1: might be a ticket to some kind of financial freedom.
Speaker 2: From from the get go. Okay, So if you want
Speaker 2: to get into boxing to make money in the wrong
Speaker 2: business and ain't a money business, like only the very
Speaker 2: few slipped through the cracks, only the very few can
Speaker 2: make it to the top end. It's a really hard,
Speaker 2: long road and I wouldn't really recommend it to anyone
Speaker 2: but the psychological battle and this is the thing that
Speaker 2: you know, psychological side of things, and you would agree
Speaker 2: no doubt. But the I planted a seed from the
Speaker 2: age of seven, and like, over years, like I always
Speaker 2: took an interest, like I love the rocky so soon
Speaker 2: as I see the box and stuff, I took a
Speaker 2: bit of an interest, you know, so you know, like
Speaker 2: I would, I would slowly progressively get used to being hit,
Speaker 2: used to see if you see me now, and then
Speaker 2: there's something moving towards me, and I moved towards up
Speaker 2: for the understubled the power. But that's coming from the
Speaker 2: I'm the target and I'm moving away. So you learn,
Speaker 2: you learn, okay, so roll with the punches. It's the
Speaker 2: saying you're going to roll with the punches, and same
Speaker 2: as in life, you know, you roll with the punches.
Speaker 2: And that's something that I became adapted to adapt too.
Speaker 2: And it was the plant, the seed that I planted
Speaker 2: in my mind from such a young age, and then
Speaker 2: I've gone into actually physically doing it. At the pc YIC,
Speaker 2: I thought it was so great. I thought it was
Speaker 2: amazing that, you know, these kids into getting there and
Speaker 2: having a crack. I thought I could do this. I
Speaker 2: can have a crack at this and I can actually
Speaker 2: you know, neutralize their attacks and I can start, you know,
Speaker 2: cop the damage. And it looks pretty good. It looks
Speaker 2: it looks it feels pretty good to do this thing.
Speaker 2: Because when I first walked in there made it was intimidating,
Speaker 2: it very intimidating. But to overcome that, to overcome that
Speaker 2: intimidating and to be that guy in there doing it,
Speaker 2: and then then to train to the point where you
Speaker 2: have your first fight, which I did It doesn't matter
Speaker 2: what age are. You can be fIF fifty years old
Speaker 2: and have your first fight. But for an eleven year
Speaker 2: old kid to get in there, and I was so look,
Speaker 2: I'll go on it. I was so scared to throw
Speaker 2: my right hand. I was just so scared, scared kid
Speaker 2: because I was at the Wilson and Pub in Timba
Speaker 2: and everyone's watching it. It's like a real packed environment.
Speaker 2: And I was that guy on that stage, you know that,
Speaker 2: you know, doing doing the thing, and yeah, I had
Speaker 2: overcome some real fears to get through that bite.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me you were eleven years old when
Speaker 1: you had your first fight?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what the fuck in a pub? In a pub?
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1: That's surely that doesn't happen now. Like they're not. They're not.
Speaker 1: They're not putting eleven year olds in boxing rings in
Speaker 1: pubs in twenty twenty four, are they?
Speaker 2: You don't have to be ten, to be honest with
Speaker 2: you only have to be ten, and they are, they are,
Speaker 2: And it's a it's a real look, it's a real
Speaker 2: you know, well back in the day o case, they
Speaker 2: growing up, you know, got that you know, like like
Speaker 2: guys would have a scrap right, and that you know,
Speaker 2: they'd have the differences and they might have a scrap
Speaker 2: and you know they do the old old English, so
Speaker 2: you know, they a punch.
Speaker 1: And they shake hands after it, you know, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: hiding in.
Speaker 2: Backyard boxing, it become like a part and part of
Speaker 2: the parcel. And these days it's like kids don't even
Speaker 2: know what they're doing by the time they get in
Speaker 2: the fight. They don't even know how to control these emotions.
Speaker 2: They don't know how to match the physical with the
Speaker 2: emotion they're feeling, and they just go stupid to pick
Speaker 2: up a knife and stab someone or kick them in
Speaker 2: the head when they're down. And there's a lot to
Speaker 2: be said about the old school method of learning and
Speaker 2: that and I really respect that. Yeah, maybe you know,
Speaker 2: the psychological side, you know, there's a lot to be desired,
Speaker 2: but there is like you know, maybe they didn't go
Speaker 2: a bit too far, but there is some good that
Speaker 2: was taken from that. You know, like to learn it
Speaker 2: in the boxing and you know, to learn a bit
Speaker 2: about the art of art of war. And you know,
Speaker 2: I really did like the old school way of doing things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I mean I'm a big fan of martial
Speaker 1: arts and boxing and all the various forms of training
Speaker 1: in that space. And I mean, the only the only thing.
Speaker 1: There's only one thing I don't like about combat sports,
Speaker 1: and that's potential brain damage that comes with it, right,
Speaker 1: and that's just because that's because of who I am
Speaker 1: and my job than like I work. I've worked with
Speaker 1: lots of people that have gotten the CTA and one
Speaker 1: of my one of my athletes that I trained, I
Speaker 1: won't mention his name, but he ended his own life
Speaker 1: and because of that, you know, so that I hate
Speaker 1: that part of it, but I fucking love you know,
Speaker 1: the discipline, the structure, the accountability, the environment where you're
Speaker 1: learning how to use your body in a different way.
Speaker 1: You're learning how to defend yourself if you need to,
Speaker 1: you know, And you're right, Like you make a really
Speaker 1: good point, Michael, and that is that you know, kids
Speaker 1: growing up like they've still got all the same emotions
Speaker 1: that we had thirty years ago, you know, like when
Speaker 1: I was a kid fucking two hundred years ago, but
Speaker 1: like you're growing up, you've got all these emotions. If
Speaker 1: you're a boy, you've got testosterone fucking running around your
Speaker 1: body and you're a like you're a fucking idiot. You're
Speaker 1: full of testosterone, you've got the IQ of a wombat,
Speaker 1: and you're trying it and you're trying to figure shit
Speaker 1: out right, And yes, but you're getting back in the day,
Speaker 1: and I'm not recommending at anyone, so don't send me
Speaker 1: an email. But back in the day, you know, we
Speaker 1: were always in scuffles and you know, like not necessarily
Speaker 1: punching each other in the head, but just like minor
Speaker 1: altercations and disagreements and everyone, you know, all of my
Speaker 1: group survived and it's all okay. But but now that
Speaker 1: because we've kind of and I'm not suggesting you know
Speaker 1: that people resolve problems by punching each other in general society,
Speaker 1: I'm not recommending that, but having an outlet, having an
Speaker 1: environment where you can go and learn to hit a
Speaker 1: speedball or a floor to ceiling, or hit a heavy
Speaker 1: bag or hit some pads, you know, and move around
Speaker 1: and feel what it's like for somebody just to you know,
Speaker 1: throw a punch at you, and just I mean, it's
Speaker 1: good on so many levels other than boxing.
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, well, you say what you will about it,
Speaker 2: you know, like people have their own opinion. However, look
Speaker 2: at the youth crisis these days, and look at like
Speaker 2: the way kids are reacting when when when they're confronted
Speaker 2: with stuff at home and the trauma that they're not
Speaker 2: dealing with, they have no outlet, there's nothing, So what
Speaker 2: is the better alternative? But you look at the way
Speaker 2: of the old, the way that we were, and then
Speaker 2: the way that people have. It's just it's just an
Speaker 2: unsaid thing. You don't like, they don't they don't carry
Speaker 2: on the way they're carrying on now. And this is
Speaker 2: part of my mission now, Like I see, like you know,
Speaker 2: I've gone through what I've gone through. We can speak
Speaker 2: about that, but you know, I can't wait any longer now, Gary,
Speaker 2: I'm at the point where Craig.
Speaker 1: That's all right, Brian, you got you got here one too.
Speaker 2: Many times, son, I know because I speak.
Speaker 3: So good, so good, carry on Yeah anyway, Yeah, say
Speaker 3: what you will, but you know I can't wait any longer.
Speaker 2: And you know, I like to, you know, empower others.
Speaker 2: I like to see, you know, like to see kids
Speaker 2: out having to crack and doing something with their lives
Speaker 2: and have an adverts you have something they can have
Speaker 2: the energy you know, spent on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when was the first time somebody said to you,
Speaker 1: you might be really fucking good at this, like you
Speaker 1: you could like when did somebody first encourage you and say,
Speaker 1: you know, it's good that you're doing all this, but
Speaker 1: you actually are talented.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I had really good support from my parents,
Speaker 2: you know, like they we my brother and I both
Speaker 2: chose to be in the sport of kings, you know,
Speaker 2: racing and boxing. So whatever we wanted to do, they
Speaker 2: didn't say this, and you're going to boxing today. I
Speaker 2: chose to go to boxing, you know I did. My
Speaker 2: brother wasn't made to get up at three o'clock in
Speaker 2: the morning to start picking up shit at the stables.
Speaker 2: You know that he chose to do that. That was
Speaker 2: his decision. You know, he chose to leave school before
Speaker 2: grade ten. He chose to becoming a fan of Shocky.
Speaker 2: He would run up and get the newspaper every weekend,
Speaker 2: especially the know in Timber when we had the big
Speaker 2: wheat Wood Cup every year. You know, he would get
Speaker 2: that every time without fail. You know, that was his drive,
Speaker 2: you know, like he wanted. So we were very self
Speaker 2: driven and we had support from our parents. But they
Speaker 2: did answer your question. I didn't really care. You know,
Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't really care. It's just like I
Speaker 2: took my like I look and and there's another question
Speaker 2: as well, like I like, you know, was I just gifted?
Speaker 2: You know? Did I have the talent? No? I didn't,
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't. I chose to, you know, I
Speaker 2: chose to get better. I wasn't the fastest guy in
Speaker 2: the world. I wasn't the most skilled person in the world.
Speaker 2: But but I I built on those those strengths, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, and then my weaknesses and you know, like
Speaker 2: I was looking at some guys you know when you're
Speaker 2: a kid, and then you're watching this when we never
Speaker 2: went Fox Fox TV, I still come out still and
Speaker 2: Fox Sports, and I went first to pay TV and
Speaker 2: you're watching a five season. I saw these guys fighting,
Speaker 2: and I was like, Oh, we're ever going to be
Speaker 2: that good. These guys are amazing. And then eventually I
Speaker 2: was looking at this guy called Joel Psmas are three
Speaker 2: times on MPI and gold medalist, and he's a Hall
Speaker 2: of Fame and he's all this and all that. Then
Speaker 2: one day I've gone from this fifteen year old to
Speaker 2: this twenty eight year old, twenty seven year old was
Speaker 2: he was standing across me on the other side of
Speaker 2: the ring. You know, we're about to fight, and wow,
Speaker 2: I know and like I said to myself and I
Speaker 2: knew this, look my best way to shorten these guys
Speaker 2: boxing the ability was to hit them really fucking hard.
Speaker 2: You know, that's a really fucking hard like you know,
Speaker 2: I know you guys can do all these moves and
Speaker 2: you've been brought up and learning all these fancy things
Speaker 2: and that. But I'm going to hit your real fucking
Speaker 2: hard and put the fear of life into you, and
Speaker 2: then we're going to see how good your boxing is.
Speaker 2: And that's that's just that was my way of overcoming
Speaker 2: their fancy skill things. I just get right in their face.
Speaker 2: Given the room, that was my psychology, that was my mentality,
Speaker 2: you know, like you want to be tough, you want
Speaker 2: to be heardache, I'm going to go harder, you know,
Speaker 2: and I'll just keep on stepping it up and stepping
Speaker 2: it up. So I do the same sort of thing
Speaker 2: in training as well. I'd get really really really get
Speaker 2: a big role and I get really really tired. But
Speaker 2: have I got any more? And I dig a big deeper. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I got more. I got more and dig deeper and deeper,
Speaker 2: and I keep going and have I got Yeah, I
Speaker 2: got more. I just keep pushing it and keep pushing it,
Speaker 2: and then eventually that I'll become this thrashing machine.
Speaker 1: I reckon. You know, that's interesting. I reckon in life,
Speaker 1: like a lot of it is about in boxing, but
Speaker 1: in other sports, in building a business, in building a brand,
Speaker 1: in getting through some of the ship that you've gotten
Speaker 1: through in the last few years, which we'll talk about, yes,
Speaker 1: but it's like about how much pain can you deal with?
Speaker 2: How much?
Speaker 1: How much, how uncomfortable can you get and.
Speaker 2: For how long? Right?
Speaker 1: How much? Because you know, here's the here's the My
Speaker 1: listeners are sick of me saying this ship, but you
Speaker 1: and I are talk him for the first time. So like,
Speaker 1: where we grow is in the pain, Like where we
Speaker 1: get better is in the discomfort. That's where you develop
Speaker 1: awareness and in a boxing sense, skill and competence, understanding windcraft,
Speaker 1: all that. Like, but you can't get good at boxing
Speaker 1: without going through the two black eyes you got on
Speaker 1: day one, right, Like, you can't get good at what
Speaker 1: you won't do. And there are so many talented people
Speaker 1: in boxing outside of boxing, you know, in business, in
Speaker 1: fucking singing, in music, in whatever. They just won't get
Speaker 1: uncomfortable for long enough. Like you and me sound a
Speaker 1: little bit the same, like in that I'm not very well.
Speaker 1: You're definitely a much better athlete than I would have
Speaker 1: ever been. But what I mean is, I'm not the smartest.
Speaker 1: I'm not the most creative. I'm not the most physiologically gifted.
Speaker 1: I don't have you know, all that stuff. And you
Speaker 1: get to the point where you go, well, I can't
Speaker 1: wake up tomorrow with more talent or better genetics, So
Speaker 1: I better just fucking work hard, you know, Like, because
Speaker 1: that's the one thing I can control. I can control
Speaker 1: how hard I work, and I can control to an extent,
Speaker 1: how strong I get, how fucking aerobically fit I am.
Speaker 1: I can develop my skill, you know, and I can
Speaker 1: be courageous because that's a choice as well.
Speaker 2: Right, that's right, it is, it is. And look, look
Speaker 2: I did get like I did get a lot of
Speaker 2: the warning signs, you know, like like some people said
Speaker 2: to me, Look how long did they say? In American
Speaker 2: I think it was Max Calluman who would interview on me.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and a lot of interviews I've seen my style.
Speaker 2: I was just in that face. I'm just pushing up,
Speaker 2: pushing up, pushing up, you know. Always it's been right
Speaker 2: in the face ID like top three hitches to given
Speaker 2: one and they would say, how long I can't see this?
Speaker 2: How long do you think your career will last like this?
Speaker 2: You know, like you know, and looking back hindsight, it's
Speaker 2: such a wonderful thing. And that's where I'm in this
Speaker 2: position now where I can pass on the message to
Speaker 2: other people, know, you know, like how long can you
Speaker 2: keep on doing that for? Because you need to you
Speaker 2: need to also, you know, think smarter, not harder. You know,
Speaker 2: there's one thing to be hard. But there's also some guys,
Speaker 2: you know, they get in the gym and they want
Speaker 2: to be harder. They want to be hard man. They
Speaker 2: want to be hard man. But look that the fights
Speaker 2: don't like I relate boxingto life in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2: But like they get in there and they start sparring
Speaker 2: and they're doing a show right there in the gym,
Speaker 2: and by the time they get their first fight out
Speaker 2: of the bad, they're already construct they're just pissing up
Speaker 2: the war contest his ego contests, you know, like work
Speaker 2: on your skills in other ways and smarter ways. There's
Speaker 2: definitely a lot smarter ways to do things. And that
Speaker 2: comes back to you know, like you've done a lot
Speaker 2: of work in the sport sports physiology and that look,
Speaker 2: I actually speak to a doctor every every week. I'd
Speaker 2: meet up with him because we'd have some really interesting
Speaker 2: conversations and he'd work on the psychology side of things
Speaker 2: with me. And I was as this ego kid, you know,
Speaker 2: I had this ego like you said, testosterone, young gumfuller. Come,
Speaker 2: you know, you can tell me things a thousand times
Speaker 2: and unless I actually respected you, you know, like, and
Speaker 2: I knew back now now thinking back talking to this
Speaker 2: doctor that I sort of thought I knew a bit
Speaker 2: better than him.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just thought.
Speaker 2: I just I just know that I had that little
Speaker 2: chip on my shoulder. And he was saying, now, Michael,
Speaker 2: because I'm undefeated, right, twenty three fights, twenty three wins,
Speaker 2: twenty one knockouts, like I'm thinking on the ship, right,
Speaker 2: And then she says, how are you going to react
Speaker 2: when you have your first loss? You know, like just
Speaker 2: asking the question, he just went and I'm like, fucking,
Speaker 2: how do you consider that? I'm to have a loss
Speaker 2: like that, that was my attitude fucking now like I did.
Speaker 2: I didn't see that one coming, and not only to
Speaker 2: have my loss, like I lost my brother as well,
Speaker 2: so it's just gone crash boom boom boom. And he
Speaker 2: was like, you need to prepare yourself. Don't prepare yourself.
Speaker 2: He was saying, basically, don't prepare yourself for failure, but
Speaker 2: prepare yourself for things not always go the way that
Speaker 2: you're plan you know, but they're not always going to
Speaker 2: go the way that you're plan. Like I just recently
Speaker 2: spent a couple of days with George Cambosas for those
Speaker 2: who don't know who is he's a unified lightweight world
Speaker 2: champion of the world and he's just he's lost his
Speaker 2: title again recently. The bloke has done things that you know,
Speaker 2: no other Australian fighters have done, like very if you
Speaker 2: have done anyway, and he's a big name, you know.
Speaker 2: But I see the way that he does things. He's
Speaker 2: just like he does things so neatly and so everything
Speaker 2: is accountab like he puts everything neat in the place
Speaker 2: and has like a structured way of doing things. But
Speaker 2: there also comes this other part where you've got to
Speaker 2: roll with the punches and you've got to adapt and stuff.
Speaker 2: And like I'm just I'm telling you our harps, you know,
Speaker 2: Like I wish I listened to guys like you a
Speaker 2: bit more now. So if it's any message I can
Speaker 2: pass on to these these kids and everyone's well wherever.
Speaker 2: The psychological state of mind is so powerful in everything
Speaker 2: we do every day. I can't even express it enough.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, you know, some of us are slow learners, mate,
Speaker 1: I am you are. That's okay, but we're still fucking learning.
Speaker 1: But I think also, you know, like obviously no one'm
Speaker 1: wants to lose, but life gives. Life gives no fucks
Speaker 1: about your feelings or my feelings, right, Life doesn't give
Speaker 1: a shit about you. Doesn't mean nobody gives a shit,
Speaker 1: but life doesn't care about your feelings, or your outcomes
Speaker 1: or your boxing record. Life doesn't care if I have
Speaker 1: three listeners or three million listeners, or if I'm making
Speaker 1: a few bucks or all the bucks. Life doesn't care.
Speaker 1: And it's like that, even though it was painful that
Speaker 1: first loss, and even though you wish you never had it,
Speaker 1: I guess, but you learn something about yourself, right, and
Speaker 1: it might not be something you want to learn in
Speaker 1: the short term. But like if you don't know how
Speaker 1: to deal with disappointment or failure or pain or grief,
Speaker 1: fucking good luck trying to live. Because disappointment, as you
Speaker 1: know with your brother, grief, loss, pain, tragedy. Fuck dude.
Speaker 1: I mean that's just like this is just stuff that
Speaker 1: the human experience means that we've got to deal with
Speaker 1: that eventually.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I'll tell you now, like had I prepared
Speaker 2: myself to deal with things when it happened, maybe my
Speaker 2: life wouldn't have taken the road that it did. But
Speaker 2: you know, when I had that first loss, you know
Speaker 2: I was I look back and I can look back
Speaker 2: now and I can tell you clearly like I planted
Speaker 2: that seed in my head for that loss back when
Speaker 2: I was a kid watching watching TV. Think when I
Speaker 2: said to myself, I'm never going to be that good.
Speaker 2: I said, I said it to myself there and then,
Speaker 2: and I was punching these guys all that come before me.
Speaker 2: They would fall, and I thought I was this olter
Speaker 2: Ego god, this Achilles warrior, half Greek rah rah rah
Speaker 2: blah blah, and believe in my own lies and just
Speaker 2: and and then then comes the problems with addiction. You know,
Speaker 2: then you find something and you're like, you like picking
Speaker 2: up a drink, and then you start swinging into the drugs,
Speaker 2: and then your life just starts tumbling and falling and
Speaker 2: it just becomes like an avalanche and just one thing
Speaker 2: leads to another, and like you're looking in this this
Speaker 2: spot and look, yep, I tell you I landed in jail.
Speaker 2: You know, I've got myself for two years jail, and
Speaker 2: I'm sitting there and I'm thinking to myself, well, fucking
Speaker 2: how great is this? You know, how great is this?
Speaker 2: Because I have gratitude. I'm thankful I'm here now, and
Speaker 2: I know I know the only way I'm going to
Speaker 2: get out of the ship is by looking up and
Speaker 2: forward and don't look back, and just share my story, okay,
Speaker 2: talk about where I've been and tell other people that
Speaker 2: I don't want to go there. It's a fucking ship place,
Speaker 2: you know. And I have gratitude that I'm alive, I'm well,
Speaker 2: and I've had the luxury of having the support that
Speaker 2: I've had, and I've have so many people that do
Speaker 2: care about me. I'm thankful for the life that I've had,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to get out and I'm going to
Speaker 2: tell my story and I'm become a much better person
Speaker 2: than I was before.
Speaker 1: Good on your man. I love that. I love to
Speaker 1: hear that. And you look amazing. You look clear and clean.
Speaker 1: It's sober and articulate. And for a bloke who's been
Speaker 1: punched in the head a lot, you can even string
Speaker 1: up a few words together. Now, there's no there's no
Speaker 1: obvious cte. So well done. You must have a head
Speaker 1: like a fucking coconut.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know about the CD yet. We'll find out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, let's keep our fingers crossed. It's it's it's
Speaker 1: I mean, I only just met you, but I'm I'm
Speaker 1: kind of proud of you, even in this short term
Speaker 1: of where you were to, where you to, where you've come,
Speaker 1: and where you're heading. So I want to So one
Speaker 1: of my roles, which I didn't tell you before we
Speaker 1: went live, is for quite a while, about four or
Speaker 1: five years, I worked as a consultant for a drug
Speaker 1: and addiction rehab Yeah. Yeah, So I spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time working with people battling booze and addiction in
Speaker 1: gender broadly, right, So I'm interested. And so for you,
Speaker 1: do you think that, like for a lot of people,
Speaker 1: using using whatever it is they're using, is a mechanism
Speaker 1: to get out of psychological and emotional pain, like to
Speaker 1: escape that because you just don't want to fucking sit
Speaker 1: in that feeling all that sit in that mindset and
Speaker 1: when you use all of a sudden, now I'm in
Speaker 1: a better place in inverted commerce, right yeah? Was that
Speaker 1: part of it for you is to get out of
Speaker 1: that pain of having to deal with stuff?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, So yeah, looking back, I can say that
Speaker 2: because but before I could even realize that. So if
Speaker 2: you're sitting there right now, listen to this and you're
Speaker 2: pissed off, your brain off, your high as a kite,
Speaker 2: you know you might not be able to see this,
Speaker 2: but leave me when I say it. You know you're like,
Speaker 2: you need clarity to really see you need clarity. You
Speaker 2: need to have the clarity. And look like, I had
Speaker 2: a lot of pain. You know, I was dealing with loss.
Speaker 2: I was dealing with you know, I'll tell you, I'll
Speaker 2: tell you what I dealt with. You know, I lost
Speaker 2: my brother and I grew up very very close. We
Speaker 2: talk all the time he was Australia's leading jockey. He
Speaker 2: was racing in the Melbourne Cup. And it was a
Speaker 2: week till he rode in the favorite shoot out in
Speaker 2: the Melbourne Cup. And I was fighting in three weeks.
Speaker 2: In three weeks, I was fighting against to count the
Speaker 2: pound best fighter in the world. So this is a
Speaker 2: fight that would make my household name. I'm on the
Speaker 2: phone with my brother and you know, like we're talking
Speaker 2: about his right next week in the Melbourne Cup, he's
Speaker 2: going to win the Melbourne Cup. Like the times present.
Speaker 2: Him and that horse have good relationship. My brother was
Speaker 2: going to be after all these years, all these worker,
Speaker 2: was going to be the best writer in Australia. And
Speaker 2: when the Melbourne Cup, it's a big thing. And we
Speaker 2: had a long conversation at least a couple of hours,
Speaker 2: and then you know, in the morning, I get a
Speaker 2: phone call from from Brendon. He says, meet me at
Speaker 2: the gym. Get on your motorbike, because we get around
Speaker 2: the scooter motorbikes in Thailand. I was in training camp
Speaker 2: and I get it and I knew something. He said,
Speaker 2: turn your phone off. So I did exactly what he said.
Speaker 2: I get on the motorbike and I go down and
Speaker 2: meet him. I said, Brendon, what's happened to someone who's
Speaker 2: died having a and he said, yeah, it's your brother.
Speaker 2: And I just fell to the ground and started crying, mate,
Speaker 2: and just even talking about it now, it's just really
Speaker 2: living like his face. You know, he was the same
Speaker 2: as me. He's just found to picture. It seems the
Speaker 2: media hard about Stathi and I it was a hard thing,
Speaker 2: and but look, I want to share that because I
Speaker 2: want to share that because you know, when you look
Speaker 2: at like, you know, I got close with a lot
Speaker 2: of athletes and people like Mick Fenning. You know, just
Speaker 2: just the reason why I mentioned Mick Fenning's name is
Speaker 2: because he's the guy that lost his brother as well,
Speaker 2: and he had a choice on which way he wanted
Speaker 2: to go, what he wanted to do, And I just
Speaker 2: decided to start masking the pain immediately, and in three
Speaker 2: weeks time, I'm fighting the pound for pound best fighter
Speaker 2: in the world. I decided to stop drinking and doing
Speaker 2: drugs ten days before the fight, because I, you know,
Speaker 2: I just thought I'm not going to be able to
Speaker 2: have the fight, you know in the first place. If
Speaker 2: you don't pass a drug test, and you know, and
Speaker 2: I've just the media couldn't mention his name to me
Speaker 2: because I would burst out crying. Is they they put
Speaker 2: a media ban on that. But I've dropped the pound
Speaker 2: for pound best fighter in the world. I put him
Speaker 2: on his arse and then as I've gone to finish him,
Speaker 2: I could hear the complicators yelling, and he's thinking of
Speaker 2: his brother. And for the first time my fucking life,
Speaker 2: I've hesitated when it come to finishing. I just went
Speaker 2: in my own head and I started like thinking too
Speaker 2: much or maybe I shouldn't shure know. I just went
Speaker 2: to that wow, and I would never give a fuck
Speaker 2: what was going on outside. I was My eye was
Speaker 2: on my poont what his hands were doing, what his
Speaker 2: legs were doing, what his eyes were doing, what is
Speaker 2: and where do I need to execute to finish this guy?
Speaker 2: Like what I need to do? And my mind was elsewhere. Mate. Anyway,
Speaker 2: he's recovered, he's come back later in the fight, and
Speaker 2: then they stopped the fight in his favor. You know,
Speaker 2: we could be having a different conversation today, but I
Speaker 2: can tell you now I won the fight. I was
Speaker 2: fighting Shane Maizy. It was it Shane Mozy, But I
Speaker 2: was I set the fight MANI Pacio, I set the fight,
Speaker 2: Shane Mazi. I was on the list for Mayweather a
Speaker 2: few times, you know, as a four through guy. But
Speaker 2: I was that guy. I was one of the most
Speaker 2: exciting fighters in the world. And I can tell you
Speaker 2: in now half if I'd become that world wide household name,
Speaker 2: all that would have happened, as the plot would have thickened,
Speaker 2: the money would have been higher, and my might tumble
Speaker 2: and paw would have been barg greater than what it
Speaker 2: already was. So I have gratitude. I have gratitude. I'm
Speaker 2: a sitting funny and now saying I'm glad I went
Speaker 2: to jail. I'm glad I learned the hard way because
Speaker 2: that was the only fucking thing that was going to
Speaker 2: bring into clarity. It was the only thing that was
Speaker 2: going to bring bring me into recovery. And one thing
Speaker 2: that I learned in recovery is the best way to
Speaker 2: keep something is by giving it away. So I'd start
Speaker 2: my level NA and narcotics anonymous and aa AA groups.
Speaker 2: There is talking with groups and prisoners in jail and stuff,
Speaker 2: and I really related to a lot of people I
Speaker 2: really a lot of people there, and there's a lot
Speaker 2: of people that's dealt with a lot of trauma in
Speaker 2: their life, a lot of abuse, a lot of sexual
Speaker 2: abuse and violence, and they had problems with addictions. And
Speaker 2: I could relate to a lot of these people because
Speaker 2: guess what, I was one of those kids that was
Speaker 2: sexually abused. That happened to me, and that changed your
Speaker 2: whole fucking mindset. That fucks you up, you know, And
Speaker 2: I would love the chance. I've just recently found out
Speaker 2: the name of the guy that did it to me,
Speaker 2: and I would love the chances to sit in front
Speaker 2: of me and say, hey, mate, you really fucked my life.
Speaker 2: Not only my life, but my brother like because he
Speaker 2: too found masking of the pain and at the end
Speaker 2: of drugs and alcohol and now he's dead as a result.
Speaker 2: And it's affected my family and my career. My entire
Speaker 2: empire has crumbled. And these predators are predators that are
Speaker 2: out there. Listen to this. You fuck the society, you
Speaker 2: fuck people's lives. Because most of these guys in jail
Speaker 2: that are fucked up have done these suba things. I
Speaker 2: don't even know where they are and what they're doing
Speaker 2: because of that out of their brain. They just want
Speaker 2: to master pain. And that's due to a lot of this.
Speaker 2: And like you've been really, really surprised how many people
Speaker 2: are victims of sexual abuse. I don't know how we
Speaker 2: even got onto this.
Speaker 1: But made it's relevant, it's in it. It's I mean,
Speaker 1: it's like he's like I said to you before we started, mate,
Speaker 1: I don't care where we go, let's just change. And
Speaker 1: I think, but here's the thing, right, it's is it
Speaker 1: a comfortable conversation with people?
Speaker 2: Know?
Speaker 1: But is it real? Yes? Is it necessary that? Yes?
Speaker 1: Do we need to china light on this horrible fucking
Speaker 1: thing that happens? Yes, we do, you know. And the
Speaker 1: thing is that you what I love about this moment
Speaker 1: right now is here's this tough guy, this fucking world
Speaker 1: champion box of this Olympic athlete who's done some great
Speaker 1: shit and some dumb shit, like all of us, haven't you.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's true, right, I do dumb shit every day,
Speaker 1: you know so. But in the middle of all of that,
Speaker 1: you're being raw and real and vulnerable, and you're telling
Speaker 1: us about stuff that a lot of people understandably would
Speaker 1: struggle to share. But you're not doing it because you
Speaker 1: want glory or attention. You're doing it because you want
Speaker 1: to help other people not go through what you went through.
Speaker 1: You want to stop the fucking morons that do it.
Speaker 1: And also you want people to realize I'm putting words
Speaker 1: in your mouth. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that
Speaker 1: it can happen to anyone.
Speaker 2: Right, yes, and it can. It can. Yeah. Look, I
Speaker 2: just needed to ask the question to my brother's last
Speaker 2: partner that he had, and I said, my memory doesn't
Speaker 2: certain me so good, but I said, we're getting babysat.
Speaker 2: At the same time, I said, did start there saying
Speaker 2: anything to you? And she goes, oh, I just started crying.
Speaker 2: It really a lot of burst out crying. She said,
Speaker 2: he told me inever to tell anyone. Yeah, you never
Speaker 2: tell him, but yes, yes he did, you know, because
Speaker 2: I had this dream that that something happened. And it's
Speaker 2: just common sense, right, we're both being baby sat and
Speaker 2: then he's and he's one kid that would the same thing,
Speaker 2: and he would just keep everything in, He'll keep everything
Speaker 2: all bottled up, and it's no one of the drugs
Speaker 2: end up killing him. Because if I had an out first,
Speaker 2: like more physical absertion, not saying that jockey. Being a
Speaker 2: jockey isn't a physical desertion. But now, first, I'm a
Speaker 2: bit more outgoing than what my brother was. He was
Speaker 2: very much an introvert, and then when he found something
Speaker 2: that he loved it, it just killed him. You know.
Speaker 2: He loved riding, he loved horses, loved it, loved it,
Speaker 2: loved it. But then when the pain of what happened
Speaker 2: was still, we're still there and ultimately that's yeah.
Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, and that was what was that like twenty.
Speaker 2: Or yes, October nineteen twenty ten, So.
Speaker 1: It's like fourteen years ago, but it's really like three
Speaker 1: minutes ago, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Hey, I can tell you I procrastination prolongs the pain because,
Speaker 2: like I said, with Mick Fenning, with what he did
Speaker 2: with his life, you know, like he just he we
Speaker 2: would have went home. Look, we all have hard days
Speaker 2: at work and stuff, and then some guys want to
Speaker 2: get home and they want to pick up a beer.
Speaker 2: Fucking wear it on a chim mate. It's been a
Speaker 2: hard day, Wear it on a tin. Do it you've
Speaker 2: got to do, and go to bed and get up
Speaker 2: fresh in the morning. You don't have to piss you know,
Speaker 2: drink drink it away and it will do the drugs
Speaker 2: or whatever, whatever you do, whatever your masking agent is,
Speaker 2: you know, just yeah, you just got to move forward.
Speaker 2: And that's a route like, look, what could have At
Speaker 2: that time, I said to myself, I want to you know,
Speaker 2: I want to do what my brother would have wanted
Speaker 2: me to do. My brother would have wanted to fight
Speaker 2: the pound for pound best fighter in the world. My
Speaker 2: brother would have wanted to knock out one. And you're
Speaker 2: markets and being this glorified champion. But guess what, STARTHI
Speaker 2: wasn't with me anymore. STARTHI was gone. And really, really,
Speaker 2: when you think about it, STARTHI would have wanted me
Speaker 2: to do what was best for me. And when we're
Speaker 2: flying in an airplane and the air hostess says, you
Speaker 2: fixed in the case of an accident, fix your mask
Speaker 2: before you fix your childs because you can't fix anyone
Speaker 2: else's anything if you can't help yourself, like I really needed.
Speaker 2: What I'm saying is I needed to look after me.
Speaker 2: You look, you need to look after number one. And look,
Speaker 2: and as I think you said earlier, you know some
Speaker 2: hard truth that I was told no one really gives
Speaker 2: a fuck, No one really does. It's just until you've
Speaker 2: got like minded people and they are for what you
Speaker 2: are for and it all comes together and then yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: then you know, then people can care because you are
Speaker 2: full the same sort of thing. But you know, I
Speaker 2: should have dealt with that. I should have not taken
Speaker 2: that fight, because by doing so, and then by taking drugs,
Speaker 2: by drinking alcohol, I have procrastinated, and it's prolonging the pain.
Speaker 2: And fourteen years later, I'm here telling a story which
Speaker 2: which I'm thankful for too. I'm thankful that I can
Speaker 2: share this story, and I hope that anyone listening doesn't
Speaker 2: go down the same road that that I go, and
Speaker 2: can actually listen to what I'm saying, so that if
Speaker 2: you like watching my fids, if you like what I've done,
Speaker 2: you liked my career, and you like that, then maybe
Speaker 2: you can take some respect and you can you can
Speaker 2: maybe you can respect what I say and that you
Speaker 2: know it can happen to anyone. As you said earlier, yeah.
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, mate. What so, if if anything, what what
Speaker 1: did you so like you said earlier, you spent two
Speaker 1: years life job, what did you what did you take
Speaker 1: away from that did you you know, did you I mean,
Speaker 1: I know nobody wants to be in jail, but did
Speaker 1: you learn? Did you grow? Did you get clarity? Did
Speaker 1: you get awareness like what happened?
Speaker 2: Yes, I got clarity because I got sobriety. You know, well,
Speaker 2: it's just before I went to the job, when I
Speaker 2: found out that there was a wearing out for my arrest,
Speaker 2: that there was an investigation and on when my fingerprints
Speaker 2: were down on bags of cocaine and the safe at
Speaker 2: the house that was a raid was done on. Look, look,
Speaker 2: you know that was it. I said, right, that's it. Okay,
Speaker 2: I quit okay, and that's it because it was so
Speaker 2: fucking real, like when you get that phone call Ado Michael,
Speaker 2: it's the it's the handred police here. And I was
Speaker 2: going to let you know, look, I followed your career
Speaker 2: and I supported Green. I followed your brother's career. Right, yeah,
Speaker 2: This this is how the conversation went. You know, like
Speaker 2: I was, I was high as a kite. I was
Speaker 2: sitting there. I'll tell you this. I was high as
Speaker 2: a kite and I was like sitting on sitting on
Speaker 2: the poker machines, and I just said, like I was
Speaker 2: just like I was just really lost my life. I
Speaker 2: wear my life going to and I've gone through shiploads
Speaker 2: of money and I've gone through the last cent just
Speaker 2: literally the last ten cent bet one cent bet. And
Speaker 2: then the phone call wrings it's a private number. Hello,
Speaker 2: this is Detective David Brooks from the handred of PlayStation
Speaker 2: just kind of let you know that, you know, first
Speaker 2: of all, it was very polite and respectable and the
Speaker 2: way that he said things, and you know, very you know,
Speaker 2: and then friendom my career, but it's going to say
Speaker 2: that your parole has been revoked and that you were
Speaker 2: remaining in jail until these matters are dealt with and
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah blah, and I just went, you
Speaker 2: know what, I said, thank you very much for letting
Speaker 2: me know. I appreciate the phone call.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, And then they came and collected you or
Speaker 1: what happened?
Speaker 2: No, I went handed myself in there. Oh wow, yeah
Speaker 2: you want just here go yeah, hand up me. I've
Speaker 2: got to get off drugs. I got to stop drinking alcohol.
Speaker 2: Like man, like when you're a three time world boxing champion,
Speaker 2: when you're saying you come from the same your brother
Speaker 2: and know you're both like rubb and shoulders with the
Speaker 2: likes of Oscar the la Joie. You know, I got
Speaker 2: Australia's best athletes as well, like I got some great
Speaker 2: mates here in Australia and the successful business people I
Speaker 2: always love talking about. Made a trip vis the owner
Speaker 2: of the Melbourne Storm, like I love being able to
Speaker 2: have these people lean on for support. And I rang
Speaker 2: him and I told him, I said, I'm going to
Speaker 2: get hid myself in, like I put my hand up
Speaker 2: in you and you and I went and and you know,
Speaker 2: I just owned it. I owned it. What else can
Speaker 2: you do? Like you I own it, like you pull
Speaker 2: your head in. You know. That's what I had to do.
Speaker 1: And was it after two years inside? Was it a
Speaker 1: big adjustment coming out? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Wow? Like the technology, like the way they do, like
Speaker 2: you can do everything's on the phone now everyone's always
Speaker 2: on their phones. By the way, now I've noticed, like
Speaker 2: you know, there's the big changes with a lot of
Speaker 2: that stuff. And everyone looked a lot younger.
Speaker 3: That's hilarious and I've a lot older, you know, but
Speaker 3: things and a lot of changes happened within me, like
Speaker 3: things slow.
Speaker 2: Down a lot, yeah, you know, like my wanting to
Speaker 2: run as much as you know, always like running, always
Speaker 2: like being active and all that logo. I just feel
Speaker 2: like I need to take my time with everything that
Speaker 2: I do. And I still I'm still a very active person. Look,
Speaker 2: look I am. I'm finding a lot of pleasure, Like
Speaker 2: I find a real I find a lot of passion
Speaker 2: and want to help people, you know, So I've got
Speaker 2: now on my Instagram, like I'm advertising I'm doing a
Speaker 2: bulletproof mindset course, so you know, people, I just want
Speaker 2: to really want to help people find their best. That's
Speaker 2: what I'd love to be able to do this full
Speaker 2: time for work and help people and get something out
Speaker 2: of that. But you know there are other people out
Speaker 2: there that that do need help and want help. And
Speaker 2: you know, I guess I found a lot. I love
Speaker 2: what I love doing, and you know, like I've got
Speaker 2: business on the side as well, Like I've got a
Speaker 2: foreign company, you know. You know, I like, I like
Speaker 2: giving everything that crack. You know, it's just you know,
Speaker 2: you want to make the most. I've got beautiful kids
Speaker 2: out there, and I cried, you know, I missed my daughter,
Speaker 2: and you know, I got married when I was in
Speaker 2: Vegas and I had a daughter when I was in
Speaker 2: now she's in Japan, and well, look, I made a
Speaker 2: lot of mistakes and love a lot of Like I
Speaker 2: spent a lot of time now like basically unraveling and
Speaker 2: fixing everything I did with for the time that I
Speaker 2: was in addiction, like a big mess that I created
Speaker 2: for myself. But like you know, every day it's getting better,
Speaker 2: you know. And it's what people may not forgive me
Speaker 2: straight away, and I have to accept that because it's
Speaker 2: part of the actions that we do when we do
Speaker 2: and you know about all this being and the treatment
Speaker 2: of addiction all that like this, and look a look,
Speaker 2: I'm no scholar, Like I'm no good with the twelve steps,
Speaker 2: so I couldn't turn the order that they come in
Speaker 2: and that. But I do know that there's growth in myself.
Speaker 2: I speak to my sponsor, you know, and I'm not
Speaker 2: someone that can sit down and go through the twelve
Speaker 2: steps of how that all works. But I'm very adamant
Speaker 2: and firm on recovery and how important it is to
Speaker 2: have that clarity.
Speaker 1: Well, and I think also mate that you know, as
Speaker 1: we said before, it's like there's no three steps to
Speaker 1: even though there it is a twelve step program. I
Speaker 1: think that, like different things work optimally for different people. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's not like everyone. It's like with boxing, Not
Speaker 1: everyone should fight the same way. Not everybody should eat
Speaker 1: the same diet, Not everybody will work with the same psychologists, right, Yes,
Speaker 1: not everyone should fucking run on concrete. Someone's going to
Speaker 1: run twice and get injured. Someone's going to run a
Speaker 1: thousand times and not get injured. Right, So it's trying
Speaker 1: to in the middle of all of that, it's trying
Speaker 1: to figure out how do I get clean and sober,
Speaker 1: how do I stay clean and sober, how do I
Speaker 1: become a better human? How do I create a new
Speaker 1: operating system that works? And what are my values? And
Speaker 1: how do I live my values? Right? And that process
Speaker 1: is going to be different because we're all fucking different, right.
Speaker 2: Yes we are. So. Look, Look, if you want something
Speaker 2: more than you want to breathe, I think that you're
Speaker 2: going to get it. Look, if you want a good life,
Speaker 2: if you want a good life and a better life,
Speaker 2: you're going to get it. And if the problem is
Speaker 2: standing in front of your ways out pole or it
Speaker 2: is drugs, just say for example, it might be something else.
Speaker 2: It might be other things. Okay, let's just say, but
Speaker 2: there is the support out there if you want to
Speaker 2: get it, you don't have to sign up to some
Speaker 2: government thing will do that. Then there's not a big
Speaker 2: brig morale things like that. What I found was this is,
Speaker 2: for example, if you want to get on to a
Speaker 2: meeting and alaholics anonymous meeting or narcotics anonymous meeting, there's
Speaker 2: one every thirty minutes all over the world. You can
Speaker 2: get online and these people you don't even know, you're
Speaker 2: never seen them again, say share whatever the funk you want,
Speaker 2: talk about whatever you want, because they're just been actually
Speaker 2: hearing yourself talk and say things. So that's what I
Speaker 2: started doing. What I decided to get clean before I
Speaker 2: even went the handle myself in. It took me eleven
Speaker 2: days to let all my kids know and you know,
Speaker 2: and just get things sorted. So my time actually went
Speaker 2: in there. But like I did, you know, and I
Speaker 2: was dragging my ass around made dragonmark. But every spare
Speaker 2: chance I got, I jumped online and I would start
Speaker 2: learning about this because if I want to have a
Speaker 2: good life, I've got to get clean. That was my problem,
Speaker 2: that was my thing, that was my thing that I
Speaker 2: either deal with, but the other people have other things. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I totally get that, but that was me at that
Speaker 2: particular point in time. Anyway, the resources are available if
Speaker 2: you want them there and then look at and you know,
Speaker 2: and if you do need some help, you know, well
Speaker 2: guess what, you know, this is what I found really too.
Speaker 2: Like you know, when you get when you put out
Speaker 2: in your ass and you get out of jail, they
Speaker 2: give you a Vinni's card and they give you like
Speaker 2: a train together.
Speaker 1: That's what you've got. Hilarious.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got your flip flops and you like you're
Speaker 2: just and you know, like you can you can call
Speaker 2: like and as and as. People might not see this,
Speaker 2: but you might have money, or you might have a career,
Speaker 2: you might have a lot going for you. But if
Speaker 2: you don't want to call lifeline, you know, you know
Speaker 2: that you can call Lifeline and that they'll tell you
Speaker 2: whatever it is, doesn't matter what it is. They'll like
Speaker 2: some people that are trained in this ship, they'll tell
Speaker 2: you which way to go and what to do. And
Speaker 2: you don't have to be but you can be anyone.
Speaker 2: But just got to drop your fucking ego, you know,
Speaker 2: like just yeah, there's always resources available that will put
Speaker 2: you in contact with someone. This is one big, one
Speaker 2: big network the way the whole world and technology the
Speaker 2: way it works. You can't use it, but just people
Speaker 2: need to drop the fucking ego and there's a lot
Speaker 2: of shit out there and it is, it is available.
Speaker 2: I really find happiness and enjoyment and working with people
Speaker 2: that help me move forward, you know, move forward and
Speaker 2: going on on and upwards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the best way to look after yourself in some
Speaker 1: ways is to have a purpose bigger than you, you know,
Speaker 1: because when you're all, yes, you need to look after
Speaker 1: number one from a mental and physical health point of
Speaker 1: view because that helps you do But in terms of
Speaker 1: having a purpose, you know, part of the reason I
Speaker 1: do this show is like we're sixteen hundred plus episodes
Speaker 1: in and I did. I did two and a half
Speaker 1: three years of this show losing money, but I still
Speaker 1: enjoyed it because we were still helping people and having
Speaker 1: good conversations. You know, Yeah, I made it. Your ace,
Speaker 1: I think your fucking ace love you. How do people?
Speaker 1: How do people connect with you? Follow you? Find you?
Speaker 1: So give us a shout out to whatever your web
Speaker 1: side or your social media or however liple can connect.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Michael Catz this Instagram. Just Michael Cats. This is
Speaker 2: my name. Cat's he k A T s I d oh, yes, Michael, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's the best way. You know, I've got a bulletproof,
Speaker 2: bulletproof mindset of course what I'm doing, and I have
Speaker 2: the great blueprint with people to want to learn the boxing,
Speaker 2: but if they want to learn the mindset, you know
Speaker 2: I've got I've got different modules about mental clarity and
Speaker 2: where I've got my strength from a different stages in
Speaker 2: my life. So yeah, yeah, Michael kat on Instagram.
Speaker 1: Yeah, mate, you're you're a gym. Now, I'm just going
Speaker 1: to tell you a little interesting story before we go. So,
Speaker 1: the one of the girls who's on the podcast with me,
Speaker 1: her name is Tiff She's she sometimes sits in and
Speaker 1: she edits for me. She's a boxer. And you've said,
Speaker 1: you've said Rolling with the Punches a lot, and she's
Speaker 1: got a podcast called called Roll with the Punches. Oh yeah, man,
Speaker 1: it made It's been great. I appreciate you. Thanks for
Speaker 1: coming on the you project. You're a gun. Good luck
Speaker 1: with everything moving forward, and maybe we'll chat again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that'd be great Harps and I appreciate you
Speaker 2: mate and everything that you do.
Speaker 1: Thank you, you're a good man.