1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: This podcast was recorded on the land of the Gatigel 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: people of the Euran Nation. Hello and welcome to the 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: Real Story with Joe Hildebrand. It's absolute pleasure to have 4 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: your company. A huge, huge, huge show this week. I 5 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: have got everything you need to know about that phone 6 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:22,159 Speaker 1: call between Anthony Albanesi and the Donald Trump and is 7 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: right going to survive as ambassador to the United States 8 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: in the middle of our latest trade war? Or is 9 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: it a trade war? I've got all the answers to 10 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: all that coming right up. So first up this week, 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: this has got to be the most talked about phone 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: call in Australian history. This is the call between Anthony 13 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: Albanesi and Donald Trump just after Trump announced that there 14 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 1: would be a twenty five percent tariff on Australian steel 15 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: and aluminum exports to America. Now, there is a huge 16 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: amount to reveal underneath the surface of that, and the 17 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: first thing you need to know is that that phone 18 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: call wasn't even organized in relation to Trump's announcement. That 19 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: phone call had already been booked, that had already been 20 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: set up a week earlier, and had been set up 21 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: with the Prime Minister's Office and the US Embassy in Washington, 22 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: Australia's US Embassy in Washington. Yes, that one, the one 23 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: that's run by Kevin Rudd. So Kevin Rudd actually had 24 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: a hand in setting up the phone call with Donald Trump. 25 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: Now it was already scheduled for eight a m. On 26 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: the Tuesday morning and had already been set to take 27 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: place then. And then just a day earlier, Trump announces 28 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: that he's going to put a twenty five percent tariff, 29 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: not just and this is very very important, not just 30 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: on Australian steel and aluminium exports to the US, but 31 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,559 Speaker 1: on everybody's, on the whole worlds. And the way it's 32 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: been sort of cast and fair enough because we're in Australia, 33 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: so we only care about what affects us. But you 34 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: could be forgiven for thinking that he's just come after 35 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: our exports. In fact, he's just gone after all steel 36 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: and aluminium imports to America from his perspective, and he 37 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: wants to slap of tariff on them to make American 38 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: steel and aluminium more competitive. Because of course, Donald Trump 39 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: won election thanks to the rust belt and what's rusting 40 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: the steel because America used to make huge amounts of 41 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: steel and it doesn't anymore because it's cheaper to import 42 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: it from other countries, which is why he wants to 43 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 1: put the tariffs on. Okay, but these are not tariffs 44 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: targeting Australia like the tariffs that he threatened against Canada 45 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: and Mexico. These were tariffs that weren't even threatened for 46 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: any economic or trade purpose when he was talking about 47 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: Canada and Mexico. These were just tariffs to force these 48 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: countries to be tougher on border protection, to be tougher 49 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: on humans and drugs coming into America across those borders, 50 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: and it worked. They all came to the party said yes, sorry, 51 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: we'll do much much more. We'll build a thousand balls. 52 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: Justin Trudeau came out and said, we'll give you whatever 53 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: you want. We'll have a fentinel Zar one point five 54 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: billion dollars. Well it's Canadian dollars, so it's probably worth 55 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: about two and a half grand anyway. So everything happens. 56 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: But those were targeted tariffs against specific countries for a 57 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: specific reason. This is just a broad tariff he's applied 58 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: to all imports to the United States from overseas, and 59 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: Australia just happens to be one of the countries on 60 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: the list, so that is the first thing to know. 61 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: This is something Australia has been inadvertently caught up in. 62 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: And that is very much the sense at the top 63 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: of the tree. That's what people at the top of 64 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: our government think, that this was just a sort of accident, 65 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: if you will, and oversight. Already. Trump had a phone 66 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: call with Anthony Alberanesi just after he got elected last year, 67 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: and they said that, you know, remember, you've got an 68 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: actual trade surplus. We import more from America than America 69 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: imports from US, so you're actually winning. You're doing a 70 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: better job of selling your stuff to us than we 71 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: are of selling to you, so you actually win the 72 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: trader in balance. So Anthony Alberanzi reminds Trump of this 73 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: just after he gets elected, and then of course he 74 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: has another phone call scheduled after the president has been 75 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: sworn in. And this is no mean feat. We are 76 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: one of the first that Trump has spoken to so 77 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: aside from all the stuff that he has to do 78 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: for various national security raids. In his trip to Israel 79 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: where he said he was going to buy the Gaza 80 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: strip and turning it into luxury beachfront condominiums or something. 81 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: But we were one of the first few country whose 82 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: phone call he took post inauguration, and it just so 83 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: happened that that call, which had already been set up, 84 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: happened to be scheduled for just after he makes that announcement. 85 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: And that is why the Prime Minister Albaneze is talking 86 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: to him, not just about the trade sanctions. He's talking 87 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 1: to him about everything, talking to him about you know, orcurse, 88 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: talking to him about, you know, the footy and the 89 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: south player who just won the Super Bowl single handedly. 90 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: Also talked about golf. We know that Trump loves golf, 91 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: and they also talked about something that Trump also loves, 92 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: which is aeroplanes. Trump likes big stuff, big plans, and 93 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: Albo was a massive aviation nut, and not just because 94 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: he lives under the flight path or he used to 95 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: before he got all big and famous, but because he 96 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: used to be the transport minister, and any of the 97 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: federal transport minister. Your main area of transport is of 98 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: course aviation, so Albo knows all about that stuff. And 99 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: one of the things that Australia imports a lot of 100 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: from America is planes. And so again he reminds Trump 101 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: that we're importing lots of planes from a for example. 102 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: Now people have since come out to it'll actually we 103 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 1: import like lots of other stuff more than planes, like 104 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: you know, like construction equipment. You know. It's like yeah, yeah, 105 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: but that doesn't float Trump's boat. You want to get 106 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: Trump's attention, you put something big and shiny in front 107 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: of him, like a I don't know, a Boeing seven 108 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: four seven. So Albo reminds me of this, tell um 109 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 1: all this. The phone call is supposed to go for 110 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: just twenty to thirty minutes, it's scheduled to just go 111 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: for twenty to thirty minutes. It goes for forty. So 112 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: that in itself is a very good sign. You do 113 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: not spend longer than you have to talking to someone 114 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: who you are going to screw over no matter what. Again, 115 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: in diplomacy, a when you get the phone call and 116 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: how quickly is a very big deal and a very 117 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 1: important marker of how how close the relationship is and 118 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: how long that phone call goes for is a very 119 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: big sign. And that's why you hear people talking about that. 120 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: And this is what world leaders and diplomats and lawyers 121 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,679 Speaker 1: are looking for as signs that the relationship's going well, 122 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: we're going to get a deal, We're going to get 123 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: a breakthrough. Now. The other thing that happens in the 124 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: phone call were that not enough, is that the two 125 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: men agree what they're going to say afterwards, and they 126 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: both agree that they will say that an exemption, a 127 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: carve out for Australia from these tariffs is under consideration. 128 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: All right. Now, Again, if you are not planning to 129 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: do something, you don't say it's under consideration. You just 130 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: don't do it, because why would you protract an inevitable process? 131 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: Why would you raise hopes only to dash them again? 132 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: Makes you look like an asshole twice over. There is 133 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: absolutely no political benefit in saying all right, I'll have 134 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: a look and I'll review it, and then coming back 135 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: and saying no, no, no, we're just going to do 136 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: it anyway. If you're going to do it anyway, you 137 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: just do it. Then Trump goes out, and I love 138 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: this guy, but he comes out and he says, he says, yeah, 139 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: just you know, I just got to say, there's going 140 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: to be no exceptions, no exceptions. We're going to have 141 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: tree tarrifs on the whole world, no exceptions. And then 142 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: someone up the back says, didn't you just get off 143 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: the phone call to Australia and say, oh yeah, yeah, sorry, yeah, 144 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: apart from that, and he says, and he says, yeah, 145 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: I spoke to the Prime Minister Australia, a very fine man, 146 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: a very fine man. Now that is extremely important. And 147 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 1: he says, yes, and yeah, it's only consideration. It's a 148 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: great consideration. Now we all know that great is Donald 149 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: Trump's favorite word. Great is what He's going to make 150 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 1: America again. So he reaches a deal with the PM 151 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: just to say that this is under consideration, which again 152 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: you don't do if you're planning on absolutely having the 153 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: status quo, no exceptions. And then he comes out and 154 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: says not only that it's under consideration, but it's under 155 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: great consideration, maga consideration. He's going to make Australia great again, 156 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,559 Speaker 1: or he's going to consider making Australia great again. And 157 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 1: the other thing, of course, is that Donald Trump is 158 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: a transactional politician. He likes to win, he likes to 159 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: make a deal. And the only point in making a 160 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: deal is if you think that you are getting the 161 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: better deal out of it. And if you're winning, you 162 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: want both sides to think you're winning. But Donald Trump 163 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: wants to know that he is the winningest winning of all. 164 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: And of course that is another thing that the PM 165 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: both raised with him in his first phone call after 166 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: being elected and reminded him again in this phone call, 167 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: which is that you are already winning the trade war. 168 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: If there is a competition in trade between America and Australia, 169 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: you are already winning. In fact, we import about twice 170 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:05,959 Speaker 1: as much in dollar terms from America as America imports 171 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 1: from US, so you're already winning. All we ask is 172 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: that you just keep winning. And of course Donald Trump 173 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: is very receptive to this, because oh, that's right, we 174 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: are winning, and so he can do that. He can 175 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: do that deal. He can take it to his people 176 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: and say, yes, I've established that we've already got an 177 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: awesome trade deal with Australia in which we're already winning, 178 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: and they give us twice as much money as we 179 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: give them. And because I have decided, in my magnanimity 180 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: that Anthony Albanezi is a very fine man, I've decided, 181 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: being a kind and merciful god, that I'm going to 182 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: do a special favor for our mates in Australia who 183 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: just gave us half a billion dollars American just to 184 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:56,199 Speaker 1: shore up the Orchest deal. So again we are sweetening 185 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: the deal. We are paying tribute to him, and he 186 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: loves that stuff, and he says, yes, I've decided I 187 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: will give great consideration, and after my great consideration to 188 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: this very fine man, I will exempt Australia from the 189 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: twenty five percent tariffs that I'm applying to everybody else. 190 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: Thank you very much. I'm Donald Trump, and we will 191 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: find out if I'm right or not with our very 192 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: own Trump whisperer Paul Murray, who's going to join us 193 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 1: later in the show and talk about just what makes 194 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: the Donald tick, what is he thinking when he makes 195 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: announcements like these, and what we can expect in the future. Now, 196 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: on top of all this stuff between Albo and Trump 197 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: is all the stuff between Albow and Rudd and Trump 198 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: and Rudd, which just makes this whole story just even 199 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: more intriguing. And if you're a political nerd like me, 200 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,439 Speaker 1: just sexy as hell. I know you don't often hear 201 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,959 Speaker 1: the words Kevin Rudd and sexy in the same sentence, 202 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: but you have now, so let that percolate. So Albo 203 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: and Rudd go way way back. I know this because 204 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: I go way back with both of them as well. 205 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: But Kevin Rudd was, of course the Prime minister, and 206 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: he got rolled just after a by election in Penrith, 207 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: west of Sydney, a state by election that went horribly, horribly, 208 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: horribly wrong for the Labour Party, but again not for 209 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: the federal Labor Party that Kevin Rudd was the Prime 210 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: Minister of, but for the State Labor Party and the 211 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,959 Speaker 1: polling around there where there was just a huge amount 212 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: of discontent. The state Labor government was into its fourth term. 213 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: They just rolled a succession of premiers. They've been through 214 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 1: three premiers in as many years, Maurice Yemma Nathan Race 215 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: and then Christina Kanneely who went on to lead the 216 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: party to a record loss as you would after sixteen 217 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: years in government. And that was the by election result. 218 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: That was the death knell for Kevin Rudd. But not 219 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: as far as one Anthony Albanesi was concerned. Albo stayed 220 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: loyal to Rudd. He was the chief numbers man for 221 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: the Left faction and Rudd was nominally in the right faction. 222 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: But Nonetheless, it was the left faction, most of it, 223 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: that lent its support to Rudd, while the right faction, 224 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: which had the numbers in the caucus, threw its weight 225 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: behind Julia Gillard, who is just to make things even 226 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: more confusing from the left faction. But there are two 227 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: factions within the left faction and they hate each other. 228 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: So Anthony Albanesi was loyal to Kevin Rudd even when 229 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: he knew that Kevin Rudd was doomed. Everybody knew that 230 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: he was going to lose that challenge in June twenty ten. 231 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: I remember very well because he was knife on my birthday, 232 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: Tune twenty third, was at the pub got very empty, 233 00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: very quickly, and so this is something that puts a 234 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: real primary value on loyalty. He was loyal to Rud 235 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,959 Speaker 1: even when Rudd was going to lose, and that meant 236 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: that Albo would lose his ministry. He then offers to 237 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: resign as minister to Julia Gillard. He says, I accept 238 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: that I backed the losing candidate, and here is my resignation. 239 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: To her great great credit, she refuses to take it. 240 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: She says, no, I want you to stay on in 241 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: your role as Transport Minister and Leader of the House. 242 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: I think it was, and that is an enormous credit 243 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: to both of them. He did the honorable thing by 244 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: offering to resign and she did the honorable thing by 245 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: not accepting it. Now, throughout that time when Gold was 246 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: Prime Minister, Albou continued to support Kevin Rudd, but he 247 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: never publicly undermined, betrayed, spoke against Julia Gillard. So again 248 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: he behaved despite personally being loyal to Rud. He always 249 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: publicly supported his Prime Minister and was one of the 250 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: very few people to act with a degree of honor 251 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: through this horribly dishonorable and dirty and messy and backstabbing 252 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: period of Australian political history. Then, of course Rudd comes back. 253 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: Albo supports Rudd coming back, as he was always going 254 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: to and everyone knew he would, that was very clear. 255 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: Albou becomes Deputy Prime Minister for about three and a 256 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: half seconds. Then Rudd gets swept out of office in 257 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: a landslide by Tony Abbott, but not as big a 258 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: landslide as people feared or thought or knew depending on 259 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: who you ask, that Julia Gillard would have lost by 260 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: had she stayed on as Prime Minister. So fast forward 261 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: to a couple of years ago and Albou is now 262 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: the Prime Minister. Kevin Rudd has been sort of out 263 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: in the wilder and a bit. He is the head 264 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: of various sort of prestigious institutions, the Bookings Institution and 265 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: the Asia Society and stuff like the think tanks and stuff. 266 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: But he's not getting the sort of attention that he's 267 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: used to, and he's not wielding the sort of power 268 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: that he's used to. He's also spending a lot of 269 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: time on Twitter, a lot of time on Twitter. He's 270 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: the chairman of Australians for a Royal Commission into Murdoch 271 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: or the Murdoch Breast, and that's pretty annoying for any government. 272 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: It's like, can you shut the guy who's trying to 273 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: piss off half the media in Australia. But also Rudd 274 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: goes off and writes a really good book about China 275 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: and what to Do about China, and Anthony Albanez he 276 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: read that book and he really liked it. It really impressed 277 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: him and he thought this guy has a lot of 278 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: really smart ideas he's got. Kevin right, of course, spent 279 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: a lot of time in China, speaks Mandarin. He was 280 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: a diplomat in China, Beijing, and he knows how to 281 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: handle that country, and that country is about to become 282 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: the most important country in the world. And so Albou thinks, 283 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: all right, well, I'll stick Kevin Rudd as our most 284 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: prestigious ambassador, the ambassador to the US. It is the 285 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:16,959 Speaker 1: number one ambassadorial position, Barna. And of course the US, 286 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: like Australia, is most worried about China more than anything else. 287 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: And who's the guy who knows more about China than 288 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: anyone else. Kevin Rudd at is the ambassador. And as 289 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: an added bonus, he's going to have to stop tweeting. 290 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: And so all these years later, he lifts Kevin Rudd 291 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 1: out of almost obscurity, out of the bowels of social 292 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: media where he's tweeting away about Rupert Murdoch, and says, right, 293 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: here's a job worthy of your intellect and worthy of 294 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: your energies. Rud is just psychotically hard worker. So he 295 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: puts him in there. And Rudd has been doing all 296 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: this stuff, He's been run around behind the scenes, notwithstanding 297 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: the fact that he said some really stupid and main 298 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: things about Donald Trump on Twitter, of course running theme 299 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: grown ups should not be using Twitter anyway. He's actually 300 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,719 Speaker 1: got some really good relationships. He knew I'm told that 301 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: Donald Trump was going to win, and so was preparing 302 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: all these relationships in anticipation of that. And he was 303 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: instrumental in setting up the phone call I talked about earlier, 304 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: which was already set up and ready to go even 305 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: before it needed to happen when Trump announced the trade taffs. 306 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:32,239 Speaker 1: And so that is Anthony Albanesi and Kevin Rudd in 307 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: a nutshell. These are people who have stuck by each 308 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:44,199 Speaker 1: other for decades now, and certainly in the case of 309 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: one of them being Anthony Albanesi, that loyalty is just 310 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: impossible to shake. And I can tell you that Kevin 311 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 1: Rudd will not be going anywhere. And you raise that 312 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: with Albo, even if it might be politically advantageous, or 313 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: it might seem to be easy, or it might be 314 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: a bone you could throw a pas Trump will make 315 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: him look like the big man. Albo is going to 316 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: stick by him because Albow is a loyal mate. And 317 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but I like that, and 318 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,479 Speaker 1: I think it's something we should probably see more of 319 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: in both politics and life instead of less so. As 320 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: discussed earlier, the huge news this week is that Trump 321 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: has hit Australia with twenty five percent tariffs on its 322 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 1: steel and aluminium exports. And it's funny when it happens 323 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: to someone else, but when it happens to us, it's 324 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: just not fair. And so we've brought in the one 325 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 1: man who can channel the wisdom and wiliness of the Donald, 326 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: our very own Trump whisperer, Paul Murray, host of Sky 327 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: News Paul Murray's Live. No, that's okay, don't worry. 328 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 2: It's what it's the names in the time. 329 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: Host of It's Like. Hi, It's the Real Story with 330 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: Joe Hildebrand, and I'm Joe Hildebrand from the Real Story 331 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: with Joe Hildebrand. This is Paul Murray Live, the host 332 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: of Paul Murray Live, and he joins us now Live. 333 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: Paul Murray. 334 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 2: Hello. Yes, one handshake and an entire personality has melded 335 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 2: and been shared. So yeah, thank you. It's an honor 336 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 2: to be here as an official Trump. 337 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: It is an honor to have you. Now this is 338 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,360 Speaker 1: the real deal because you are one of the very 339 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: few people. You know, Donald Trump, You've met Donald Trump, 340 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: You've interviewed Donald Trump. You've got to read on this guy. 341 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 1: What is he doing. 342 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 2: The big zel about knowing it all the rest of it? Look, 343 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 2: you know, I you know, what started as Trump curious 344 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 2: becomes you know, pro Trump and Trump understanding. Right, So 345 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 2: you've got to look at a couple of things here. 346 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 2: Won second time around, he is not all that interested 347 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 2: in having world leaders supporting him. He's not all that 348 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 2: interested in looking quote unquote legitimate by having bilateral relations 349 00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 2: here and discussions there. Instead, second time around, it's the 350 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 2: world will bow to me, and it has. I mean, 351 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 2: you saw even before he was president, when they were 352 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 2: opening Notre Dame Cathedral in France. 353 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 1: He had to prime a cron off him with a crowbar. 354 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: It was all over him, like said, they all barrel 355 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 1: of monkeys. 356 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,199 Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, if there is such a thing as you 357 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 2: know that the leader of the world, right, he was 358 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 2: that in that moment, right, He's he's that personality now. 359 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 2: And his central idea is that one of the ways 360 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 2: that he wants to fund the American government is for 361 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 2: the world to pay a tax to the United States 362 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 2: for access to the United States. Right, So at its heart, 363 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 2: that's what he's saying. But something that's also really clear 364 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 2: about Trump is that Trump wants to make when he 365 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 2: makes a big announcement, a huge first impression, and then 366 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 2: whatever the details are, whatever the actual implementation is, whatever 367 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 2: happens a week later or a month later, the reality 368 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 2: is his hope is that the media is being swamped 369 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 2: with that day's big announcement. So I am confident that 370 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 2: Australia ends up with some sort of a carve out somewhere. 371 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 2: But that's part of the thinking about Trump. You've got 372 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 2: to understand that sort of It's like waves on the beach, 373 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 2: and the most recent wonder land is the most important one. 374 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 2: But just like those waves on the beach, part of 375 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 2: the water that you don't see is going back out 376 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 2: to see. 377 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: Well, I'm so glad you said that about the carve out, 378 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: because that's what I predicted earlier in the shap Hopefully 379 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: we're both right, but it is that interesting thing, and 380 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 1: you said you said something that sucked with me. Whenever 381 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,439 Speaker 1: Trump announces something and everyone just goes wild about it 382 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: and goes, you know, oh my god, the world's going 383 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: to end. Just wait a week. That's just wait a 384 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: week and then see where things end up. And they 385 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: usually end up in a pretty good place for everybody. 386 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at the I mean, and 387 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 1: again the same thing with the tariff announcements on Canada 388 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 1: and Mexico. You know, everyone's going, oh, you know, and 389 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: the same people who are getting hysterical about the tariffs here, 390 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,239 Speaker 1: we're going then ah, they're just overreacting. Clearly, it's an 391 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: am acclaim. Is just dropping a rock in the pond, 392 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,959 Speaker 1: and then do it and the same thing presumably will 393 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 1: happen here. 394 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, don't forget as well, Right, there's 395 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 2: always a little asterisk and a little fine print. Right 396 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 2: in the case of these things, they don't kick in 397 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 2: until March, So there is theoretically a period of time 398 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 2: between big splashy announcement and when the world is going 399 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 2: to start to pay. It's in that period of time 400 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 2: that someone somewhere and there's a lot of people around 401 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 2: Trump that are very pro Australia, right. There are a 402 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 2: lot of people either in the Republican Party through Florida 403 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 2: or literally mates like Greg Norman right, who have the 404 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 2: capacity to turn around and say the Australian story and 405 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 2: the truth is the Australian story is, look, the market's 406 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 2: not really that big. But more importantly, you know, you 407 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 2: send more stuff to Australia than Australia does to America, 408 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 2: so you know, really you're winning. 409 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, Donald likes to win, correct, So as soon as 410 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: he gets reminded that you're actually you're you're actually doing 411 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: better out of this deal. This is a great deal Donald, 412 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: and he goes, oh, yeah, great, yeah, exactly. 413 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:02,440 Speaker 2: But also don't forget. Literally last weekend, literally last weekend, 414 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 2: we're handed over a check for five hundred American five 415 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 2: hundred million US two hundred, which is eight hundred austral 416 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 2: You think, like like I like, you think you've got 417 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 2: the Harry hits when you've got to go or when 418 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 2: you are going to Disneyland or Vegas or something. Engage's 419 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 2: the conversion rate. Imagine the federal government asked the taxpayer 420 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 2: three hundred million extra we have to pay because of 421 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 2: the disparity between the economies at the moment. So that said, 422 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 2: you know, obviously you've seen also that Trump is a 423 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 2: person who obviously it wants to get along with people, 424 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,719 Speaker 2: but also wants that relationship to clearly be he's on 425 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 2: top and you're not. So you saw that when he 426 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 2: was talking about the experience with Anthony albody is on 427 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 2: the phone, it was, oh, you know, a wonderful man. 428 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 2: Love it because of course, what ith mister president. I 429 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 2: just want to say, you know, congratulations, so good. You know, look, look, 430 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 2: we'll find a time, but let's have a chat about 431 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,400 Speaker 2: our system. But I completely understand your of policy. Oh okay, cool, 432 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 2: And it just that that'll start to wear away. But 433 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 2: you know, also it doesn't It doesn't hurt that we've 434 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 2: got us subs in Perth, we've got marines in Darwin, 435 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 2: and we've got we have to do the middle of 436 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 2: the country. 437 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: You know, the record state after Canada. 438 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 439 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: Correct. And this is Trump, I mean even above and 440 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: beyond Australia. This is a template that Trump has been 441 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: rolling out time and time and time again with great effect. 442 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: In fact, I can't think of a time and it 443 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: hasn't worked. Like he says to Hamas, you hand over 444 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: the hostages or they'll be hell to pay by the 445 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 1: time I'm sworn in. Guess what they reach a cease 446 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: five ideal to hand over the hostages just before he's 447 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: sworn in, like a day or two before. Yes, he 448 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: says to Canada, you better get control of the fentanyl 449 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: and the people smuggling on your borders or whatever. Otherwise 450 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,719 Speaker 1: I'm going to slap you with a you know, billion 451 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: percent to have I think it was another twenty five percent. 452 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: And they say this is reckless. It's the end of 453 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: the world. Have destroyed both our economies. Next thing, you know, true, 454 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: Dau's put out of state. We will spend one and 455 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 1: a half billion dollars on a new Fentinel Zar and 456 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: a ten thousand you know troops on the border to 457 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: stop of it and so and then suddenly the teriffs 458 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: gone away. And yet every time he brings up something 459 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: like this, he drops one of those big bombs. Everyone 460 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 1: still saw it. We're a bit like Springfield. 461 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 2: Again. 462 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, but look, it's your way a week theory. 463 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 2: Well, this is the thing, the very simple way of 464 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 2: understanding the Trump world is Okay, that's interesting, I'll see 465 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 2: you in a week's time. That has to be the 466 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 2: emotional way that you respond. If you're sitting there going 467 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 2: the greatest decision ever a guitar, okay, like you're going 468 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 2: to be disappointed and oh my goodness, smooth styles follow Harbor. 469 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 2: I fans have players colder the manager. Guess what, you're 470 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 2: not going to get the disaster that you want. Thank you, 471 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 2: by the way, acting skills, that was it. 472 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 1: That was incredible, Thank you, Thank you. 473 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 2: Surely I'm some sort of online whopper entrance, you know, 474 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 2: maybe I get it, not nier, but surely whop. They'll 475 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 2: take anyone they took you Jackman. Now he's more talented, 476 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 2: isn't he. 477 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: I was going to say, there's actually a striking resemblance 478 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: in the beard. You got, the moods, appreciatingly, blue eyes. 479 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: Thank you, No, but you're absolutely right. I mean, the 480 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: most striking thing about the tariff announcement is that the 481 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: same people who thought it was great when he announced 482 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: the tariffs against Canada thought it was terrible when he 483 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: did it to us. 484 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 485 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, But also the same people who were hysterical about that, 486 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: and then it all turned out to be fine, hysterical 487 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: about this while forgetting that it always turns out to 488 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: be well. 489 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 2: Also, look, you know, much has changed since the last 490 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 2: time that he was president, even sort of the dying 491 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,880 Speaker 2: days of twenty twenty right, as opposed to the early 492 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 2: days of twenty seventeen. I'm not sure that the world 493 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 2: wakes up anymore and rolls over and goes what happened overnight? 494 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 2: Has the world come to an end? Did the Orange 495 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 2: Man destroy the planet? I don't think people are there anymore. 496 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 2: I think that people understand that Trump the second time around, 497 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 2: he adds, absolutely knows what he's doing right, and he's 498 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,679 Speaker 2: leaning in every way possible to get the type of 499 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 2: America that he wants right. And it's pretty obvious that 500 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 2: unlike previous administrations who basically went, look, here's how America 501 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 2: rules the world. Firstly, we become the biggest economy in 502 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 2: the world, meaning that basically we are either the biggest 503 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 2: customer or the biggest seller of insert whatever to every country. Secondly, 504 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 2: if your country is a little bit to bust at, 505 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 2: us will be the ones to come in and either 506 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 2: protect it or will be the ones to prop it 507 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 2: up when it comes to foreign aid. Now, that has 508 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 2: meant that, Yes, in the post World War II period, 509 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 2: America has been on the top of the pile. But 510 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 2: reality is is that China have has of course been 511 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 2: running around and just basically buying off as many bunny 512 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 2: nations as possible, and then they move up to the 513 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 2: next stage, in the next stage, in the next stage. 514 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 2: And the truth is that, yes, there probably will be 515 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 2: some consequence ten twenty years into the future if the 516 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,479 Speaker 2: US turns around and says, look, we get it, but 517 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 2: buger it. It's all about us. 518 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: First. 519 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 2: We're going to take care of our people. Yeah, we're 520 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 2: not doing the Team America thing anymore. So we'll see 521 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,959 Speaker 2: where that goes. But right now, right now, when Trump's 522 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 2: turning around and making a big announcement, remember this, it 523 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 2: is one of honestly a dozen announcements which you made 524 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 2: each and every day. So in the White House at 525 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:27,479 Speaker 2: the moment, every working day, he is signing a dozen 526 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 2: of these executive orders. 527 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: Think of the amount of sharpies that he must be going. 528 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 2: Can I say how much I love that? I love 529 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 2: now I have. I am a sharpie man, right like 530 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 2: it used to be. My dream would be that when 531 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 2: I grew up, I'd use a fo pen to take notes. 532 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: And I just love it that executive order to stay 533 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: signed sign It's so good, it's so good. 534 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 2: But he's But also the other thing to understand with 535 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 2: Trump and Australia is we've just got to make sure 536 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 2: that we flood the zone with people who are fluent 537 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 2: in Trump, right, not fluent in Biden, not fluent in Harris, 538 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 2: not fluent in in Yeah, she isn't. And that's part 539 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 2: of the show why people have had their issue with. 540 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: People still don't understand the people who think Trump is 541 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: danger Trump is not Hitler, Trump is Vince mcmart is 542 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: not Nazi. He's w w A. 543 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 2: And remember he is actually a man who has hosted WrestleManias. 544 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: He was literally a character, correct, he was literally. 545 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 2: A character Trump Tower had WrestleMania four when Randy Savage 546 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 2: won the Belt five as well, and he's in the 547 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 2: Hall of Fame, right, So yeah, he is very much 548 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 2: in there with Vince mic man. Perhaps not the worst 549 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 2: parts of Vince mcmartin's behavior, perhaps. 550 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: Not the worst Vince mcmart. 551 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 2: But yeah, the showman, the ring master, right, And I 552 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 2: think that a lot of people this time around, and 553 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 2: certainly you know, look, I'm pro Trump, right, I want 554 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 2: his vision of America to come true. I love the 555 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 2: idea of the American president having swagger and confidence and 556 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 2: something that has a genuine feeling about that. 557 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: Clint Eastwood as president exactly. 558 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 2: But you know, sometimes you'll sort of turn around and 559 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 2: it's like, oh, oh, Joe Biden's greatest amount of all 560 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 2: the time. A no one believes that, right, Okay, like 561 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 2: Obama bit of rockstar. Okay, people believe that, right. Like 562 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 2: George W. Bush, Remember when he was the worst ever 563 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 2: because he couldn't finish the sentence, but at least he 564 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 2: was this wartime leader, right. But Trump is up is 565 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 2: right up there. He's up there with the best days 566 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 2: of Clinton, the best days of Obama, the best days 567 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 2: of Reagan, and when you've got that swagger and you've 568 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 2: got that confidence, and every day he looks at the 569 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 2: clock and he is seeing that he's got only you know, 570 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 2: X number of months and years left because he's not 571 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 2: running again, that's right. And his actual and effective power 572 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 2: runs out after two years, not four. So he's going 573 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 2: as hard as he possibly can. But as again, maybe 574 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 2: it's a fool's Errand I must say the only time 575 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 2: that I thought a little wobbly about my prediction that 576 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 2: we are going to get a carve our was Petere Navarro, 577 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 2: who his trade representative, and he was one of two 578 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 2: people who went to jail because they went no, no, we're 579 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 2: not playing with this January sixth committee. The other one 580 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 2: is Steve Bannon, right, so hard, hard, hardcore, and he 581 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 2: is a massive advocate of sanctions, and he is holding 582 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 2: the line and he is saying no, Australia should get 583 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 2: no exemption. So it'll be interesting if the world, one 584 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 2: step removed outside of the White House can get the 585 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 2: influence over Trump to make the decision to say, all right, 586 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 2: we'll let you off, or it's going to be you 587 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 2: know what part of the way that we can scare 588 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 2: the world that we are going to do twenty five 589 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 2: percent tariffs, or we are going to drop a bomb 590 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 2: here or there is some at some time we have 591 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 2: to draw a line and hold the line with no exceptions. 592 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 2: We all hope it's not this time, but we'll see. 593 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: That's right. Well, I think Trump again, I'm still inclined 594 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: to think that there will be a carback, just because 595 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: Trump a he thrives on personal relationships, and it thrives 596 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: on that handshake with a man. That's why I thought 597 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: it was so significantly called Anthony Albinezi a very fine man. 598 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: If Trump, if Trump claies, you're a fine man. That's it, 599 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: and he took him for forty guys, that's right. 600 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 2: Like if we were getting the brush, like, you know 601 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 2: that it's two minutes at best cursory conversation. Now, admittedly, 602 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 2: I have no doubt, no doubt that when the Prime 603 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 2: Minister is telling this fishing story about how this phone 604 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 2: call goes over the next twenty years, it's going to 605 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 2: get longer and longer and longer and longer. But I'm 606 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 2: pretty sure. I'm pretty sure of the forty minutes. 607 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: We spoke for twenty four hours left. 608 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,479 Speaker 2: But I also have the sense that, you know, album 609 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 2: might have got in three minutes. I might've got three minutes. 610 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 2: And then it's like, let me tell you about Wisconsin. Oh, really, 611 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 2: tell me more. 612 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: And now let's this is let's go to the even 613 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: bigger game in town. Talking about sort of America, sort 614 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: of American exceptionalism and America first versus American intervention in America, 615 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: World police. He's basically he said that he's going to 616 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: go and buy Gaza right now. I can't. Again, I 617 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: kind of like this because it is just such a 618 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: Trumpian move where he just looks at a situation as 619 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: he would instinctively from the point of view of a 620 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: property developer. Yeah, like this is his bread and butter, 621 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: this is how he made all his money. And he 622 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 1: just looks at this rebelized real estate next to these 623 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: beautiful Mediterranean beaches and he thinks, what the are you 624 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: guys doing? This is a golden real estate opportunity, and 625 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: you idiots are fighting amongst yourself. Yeah, we've got a 626 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: chance and so, and it kind of puts the whole 627 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: thing like, obviously it's never going to happen, but it 628 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: does actually a put the whole thing in perspective, say, 629 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,439 Speaker 1: hang on a minute, why aren't you doing this? Let's 630 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: just go back to ground zero. But it also again 631 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: it does the same thing. It says, if you like 632 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: don't sort this out, I'm going to come in and 633 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: sort it out for you, So you better get your 634 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: act together. 635 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 2: Well, let me put it this way. If anyone has 636 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 2: worked for a company for five years or longer, you've 637 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 2: seen a few managers come and go right in lots 638 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,439 Speaker 2: of different departments. So you know, oh, okay, this one 639 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 2: means business because they do this. This one's going to 640 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 2: say nothing, this one's just going to change the letter hit. Oh, 641 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 2: this one might make us do an extra course, but 642 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 2: there's nothing really that's going to change. So if you 643 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 2: think you've seen it all before, then generally speaking, you know, 644 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 2: if you know that the American president can only go 645 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 2: so far, cannot back this side, cannot back that side. 646 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:12,799 Speaker 1: Then you know it's going to keep doing what you've 647 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 1: been doing. 648 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 2: What happens in the negotiation. But if a manager walked 649 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 2: into your work tomorrow and went, all right, hands up, 650 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 2: who's been here for longer than five years? All right, 651 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 2: you're all on your first warning because it's time for 652 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 2: us to regenerate. You're all on your first Everyone straight 653 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 2: away goes, oh, this isn't somebody I've seen before. I 654 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 2: don't know where it's going to end, but we haven't 655 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 2: seen this before. So obviously, I mean, Katar is going 656 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 2: to pay to rebuild Gaza. Why because Hamasa's leadership was 657 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 2: in Qatar while their citizens were dying. Right, They were 658 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,319 Speaker 2: the ones that were in the room negotiating the hostage stuff. Right. 659 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 2: But in terms of Trumps, he's trying to send a 660 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 2: message to them to say, look, I'm all in on Israel. 661 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 2: And you don't know what that means because you've heard 662 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 2: it before. But you don't know what it really means me, 663 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 2: So yeah, of course it's a negotiating tactic. The problem, 664 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 2: Whiz shoch an Oor is that at a point in time, 665 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 2: you sort of start to live with it, right, Like 666 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 2: it's like remember saying, you know again, maybe your next 667 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,919 Speaker 2: door neighbor has decided, you know, they're pulling their bathroom out. 668 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,319 Speaker 2: And the first day you hear, you're like, I can't 669 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 2: live next to this. Two weeks in, it's annoying, but 670 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 2: I've got it right. It's like the aircraft noise thing. 671 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,959 Speaker 2: So you know, you have to you have to vary 672 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 2: up the act. 673 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 1: So this is again, this is why I think Trump 674 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: can get away with these sorts of things, whereas other 675 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,360 Speaker 1: presidents simply couldn't because, as you say, with every other president, 676 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 1: if Obama said it, he's never going to do that, 677 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: whereas with Trump there's always because he's I mean, it's 678 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: classic madmen diplomacy. Is something in the back of here 679 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: that says, this guy's so crazy, he just might and 680 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: it's that that keeps you on your toes. And it's 681 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,360 Speaker 1: that that, therefore, you know, hopefully is the cattle prod 682 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: to some kind of breakthrough or progress which is again 683 00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: is how you got the cease five idea with her 684 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: Mars in Israel. And again it also sort of puts 685 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: the lie to a lot of the hysteria that has 686 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: already been there around the conflict. I mean, the thing 687 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: that really made me laugh in a very sort of 688 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: dark and black rye way was when Trump makes his 689 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,760 Speaker 1: house but he's gonna turn Gaza into a condo strip 690 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: and people, you can't do that. It's ethnic cleansing. That's 691 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,839 Speaker 1: ethnic cleansing. And you hang on a minute, I thought 692 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,439 Speaker 1: it already was ethnic cleansing. Yeah yeah, yah, yeah, yeah, yes, 693 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: good said that that was already happening. 694 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:29,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, good point. 695 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: And now it's just like what more more new or different. 696 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: It's like you've been so hysterical for so long it 697 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: just sort of doesn't work anymore. So he turns everyone 698 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 1: into the boy who cried Wolf a bit. 699 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 2: Well, I'm so glad because I was literally going to 700 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 2: say it as well, right, this idea of you know, 701 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 2: we get why the stakes are where they are and 702 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 2: people's historical connections, right, And I'm not blowing that away, 703 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,240 Speaker 2: but it's like for those of us who haven't lived 704 00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 2: those things, we've heard a lot of people ramping the chat. 705 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 1: Right up right up right, up right, up right up. 706 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 2: And it's hard sometimes for people to stay in touch 707 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 2: with that. Right. But the thing about again, we've all 708 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 2: had that friend who just knows how to buy a car, 709 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 2: knows how to negotiate a price, the type of person 710 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 2: who will send back a meal, and not because they're 711 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 2: an asshole. It's just they believe that this is a 712 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 2: transaction and I'm going to pay as little for as 713 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,439 Speaker 2: much as possible, Right, that's the deal. I don't care 714 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,840 Speaker 2: that you've got commission and you're sob storing me that 715 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 2: it's the end of the month, and you know, without 716 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,759 Speaker 2: the commission, the kids aren't going to get no mate, 717 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 2: screw screw screw screw screw right, And that is ultimately 718 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 2: any deal maker. But that is again going to be Trump. 719 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:45,240 Speaker 1: Right. 720 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 2: So all of the usual emotive responses, which generally speaking, 721 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,879 Speaker 2: politicians shit the bed about, right, which is as soon 722 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 2: as they start to go oh, people are getting fired up, 723 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 2: people are getting angry. Literally. Remember what Trump had to 724 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 2: say about tariffs in the past, which is, if prices 725 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 2: go up a little bit, that's just a price to pay. 726 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 2: But it's Okay, they'll come down eventually. 727 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: Now that is. 728 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,320 Speaker 2: Exactly the opposite of what the expectation was of his presidency, 729 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 2: which was that all prices go down all the time. 730 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:11,719 Speaker 2: This was part of the elbow thing that I keep 731 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 2: banging on about about cost of living. Him made a 732 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 2: promise to make it better, it all got worse. So surprise, surprise, 733 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 2: people remember what the promise was. Right. But with Trump, 734 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,400 Speaker 2: people seem to be willing to forgive because the either 735 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 2: there's the mad genius thing, the swagger thing, the unpredictable thing. 736 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:35,839 Speaker 2: But in the end they know that if you're an American, jeez, 737 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 2: it's good to have a president that's all in for you, 738 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,400 Speaker 2: like all in for your country. Because while a lot 739 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,919 Speaker 2: of people understand that, you know, rich countries can help 740 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 2: poorer countries become less poor, which means they're less susceptible 741 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 2: to terrorism. Perfect example, think about Australia after the Barley bombings, 742 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 2: when remember Ji running around parts of Indonesia. Well, Australia 743 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,879 Speaker 2: decided to build schools. So the school that you went 744 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 2: to wasn't a school that was funded by the terrorist organization. 745 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 2: Guess what, we now don't have the same worries that 746 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 2: we had twenty years ago. So there are consequences to 747 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 2: this swagger. But if you're an American and anyone who's 748 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 2: been there over the past few years, you know, as 749 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,839 Speaker 2: wonderful a country as it is, I got married there, 750 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,000 Speaker 2: I love, love, love it. Right, there's a lot of 751 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 2: poverty in that country, that's right. There's a lot that's 752 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,960 Speaker 2: broken in that joint. So if you see your government 753 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 2: spending a million, a billion, or a trillion dollars anywhere 754 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,479 Speaker 2: but fixing that problem, you want to say to the president, Pale, 755 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 2: let's fix this first. So if Trump's turning around and 756 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,919 Speaker 2: that's his central message that I'm doing this for you, 757 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,560 Speaker 2: we'll see where it ends. But in terms of your 758 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 2: emotional response, I repeat, just wait a week and make 759 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 2: sure that you look. Check with Joe every week. He'll 760 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 2: tell you whether the sky's fallen in or not. In 761 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 2: the meantime, just keep head up and enjoy the surrounds. 762 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,800 Speaker 1: I love it. What a perfect note to end. Paul Murray, 763 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,359 Speaker 1: host of Paul Murray Live, The Clues in the Name Love, 764 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us too, And that's all 765 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,359 Speaker 1: we have time for this week. Thank you so much 766 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: for your company. It's been an absolute blockbuster episode. Hopefully 767 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 1: haven't made your brain hurt too much. You can of 768 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 1: course flick us an email and tell us if we 769 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,719 Speaker 1: have made your brain hurt too much at the Real 770 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 1: Story at Nova Podcasts dot com dot au, or you 771 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: can slide into my dms on the Gram. I'm on 772 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 1: the grid at Joe Underscore. Hildebrand is my handle, and 773 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 1: just give us a little give us a little tickle up. 774 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 1: You can also leave a review. You can give us 775 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,040 Speaker 1: five stars. I think that's the only review that the 776 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 1: operating system accepts. You can tell us what you think 777 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 1: as long as you love it, and of course, if 778 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,759 Speaker 1: you want to read any more of me, you can 779 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,319 Speaker 1: catch me every Monday and Saturday and pretty much every 780 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,359 Speaker 1: newspaper in the country. Thank you very much and I'll 781 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:52,080 Speaker 1: see you next week.