WEBVTT - How profit beats safety in childcare

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM. When

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<v Speaker 1>Joshua Brown was arrested for allegedly abusing children at childcare

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<v Speaker 1>centers across Melbourne. It exposed a horrifying reality, patchwork regulation

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<v Speaker 1>and an understaffed, profit driven industry failing children. Months on,

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<v Speaker 1>as state and federal governments try to deal with the fallout,

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<v Speaker 1>and as the Albanezy government pumps record investment into the

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<v Speaker 1>early childhood sector, experts say children still are not safe

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<v Speaker 1>in childcare. Today, Crime Reporter at the Age Sharon Grog

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<v Speaker 1>on the tension between rapid business growth and child safety

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<v Speaker 1>at the heart of the childcare sector. It's Tuesday, October

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<v Speaker 1>twenty eight and just a warning, this episode discusses allegations

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<v Speaker 1>of child sex abuse. So Sharon, I thought to begin with,

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<v Speaker 1>we could go back to July when police first went

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<v Speaker 1>public with their investigation. Tell me what we initially heard about,

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<v Speaker 1>what was going on in childcare centers, and then what

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<v Speaker 1>you did to try and uncover more.

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<v Speaker 2>The first we heard about this was just before nine

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<v Speaker 2>am on July first, As I remember, our editors were

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<v Speaker 2>all about to walk into morning conference and the cops

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<v Speaker 2>had called a press conference which happens all the time.

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<v Speaker 3>The Premier was going to be.

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<v Speaker 2>There, which wasn't necessarily unusual, but then I got sent

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<v Speaker 2>the media release of what was coming, and I remember

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<v Speaker 2>my stomach just dropped.

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<v Speaker 4>Brown was not known to police prior to this investigation. However,

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<v Speaker 4>as soon as we identified he's alleged defending he was

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<v Speaker 4>removed from the community.

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<v Speaker 3>He had a.

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<v Speaker 4>Valiant working with children check, which has since been canceled.

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<v Speaker 2>Basically, a twenty six year old childcare worker named Joshua

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<v Speaker 2>Brown had been charged with sexually abusing at least eight

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<v Speaker 2>babies and toddlers at a Point Cook childcare center, and

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<v Speaker 2>he was under investigation for abusing more kids at another

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<v Speaker 2>Essendence center. He'd worked at more than twenty centers across Victoria,

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<v Speaker 2>so the investigation had been running in secret for weeks,

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<v Speaker 2>but they were going public now because they had to

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<v Speaker 2>launch this unprecedented testing program for the kids at those centers,

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<v Speaker 2>testing for STI sexually transmitted diseases.

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<v Speaker 5>As a precaution, we are recommending that some children undergo

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<v Speaker 5>testing for infectious diseases due to a potential exposure risk

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<v Speaker 5>in that period. We do understand that this is another

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<v Speaker 5>distressing element to the situation, and we're taking this approach

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<v Speaker 5>as a precaution.

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<v Speaker 2>They hadn't wanted to start a panic before they told

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<v Speaker 2>those families. But then we learned that they had to

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<v Speaker 2>test more than a thousand kids because he'd contaminated food

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<v Speaker 2>at the center with bodily fluids.

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<v Speaker 4>Hundreds of additional children are being recommended for testing.

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<v Speaker 6>That's right, Jen, eight hundred and thirty in fact, and

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<v Speaker 6>that's on top of the existing twelve hundred children that

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<v Speaker 6>have already been advised by the Department of Health to

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<v Speaker 6>get tested for infectious diseases.

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<v Speaker 2>We were looking basically at one of the worst pedophile

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<v Speaker 2>cases I think we'd seen. So we hit the phones,

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<v Speaker 2>basically calling anyone we thought might know about this, and

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<v Speaker 2>we learned that the cops had raided Brown in May

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<v Speaker 2>after finding a horde of child abuse material filmed at

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<v Speaker 2>that childcare center.

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<v Speaker 1>And as you say, Joshua Brown had worked at many

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<v Speaker 1>childcare centers across Melbourne. There were so many families affected.

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<v Speaker 1>So as you started looking into the centers, what came

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<v Speaker 1>to light about Brown and his work history.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So once we started looking at Brown, it became

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<v Speaker 2>clear he'd been in childcare for a really long time.

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<v Speaker 3>Considering he was twenty six.

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<v Speaker 2>He'd worked at two of the biggest chains in the country,

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<v Speaker 2>Affinity in G eight, and that meant he'd been sent

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<v Speaker 2>out to fill in its centers all around the state.

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<v Speaker 2>Pretty soon, though, after going public with the list of

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<v Speaker 2>where Brown had worked, the cops realized there was a problem.

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<v Speaker 3>The dates weren't matching up. People were ringing in.

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<v Speaker 2>Affinity and G eight both came out and said, whoops,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we got some of the dates wrong. Then

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<v Speaker 2>they came out again, whoops, he wasn't ever at this center,

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<v Speaker 2>or there was another one we missed, or in the

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<v Speaker 2>case of the Essendon Center, we worked out he'd actually

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<v Speaker 2>been there for six months, longer than what Affinity had

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<v Speaker 2>told police. And that's the one where he's being investigated

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<v Speaker 2>for further abuse.

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<v Speaker 1>And you looked into that, this discrepancy between what the

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<v Speaker 1>police were told and what actually happened at Essendon in particular.

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<v Speaker 1>So tell me about that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So some staff at Affinity came forward and leaked

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<v Speaker 2>me some pretty extraordinary like basically a treasure trove of

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<v Speaker 2>internal documents. And one of the alarming things I found

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<v Speaker 2>once I started digging through was there was a post

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<v Speaker 2>in Affinity's internal staff communication portal. It's kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>their Facebook. And there's the CEO, T Hickey. He likes

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<v Speaker 2>to post pictures from his visits to centers. He signs

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<v Speaker 2>it off to Affinity and Beyond. And there he was

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<v Speaker 2>visiting the Essendonce center, where Brown had worked right up

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<v Speaker 2>until he was arrested, and where cops suspect he kept

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<v Speaker 2>abusing kids just weeks before the raid on Brown. Hickey

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<v Speaker 2>was there and he was praising how great the team

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<v Speaker 2>was and how they'd recently come off a department watch list.

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<v Speaker 3>That was the first anyone had heard of that, And.

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<v Speaker 2>Still were yet to really get any answer on why

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<v Speaker 2>that center was being looked at by the regulator and

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<v Speaker 2>why it came off the least.

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<v Speaker 3>That's just how opaque the system is. I got my.

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<v Speaker 2>Hands on another really concerning thing too. There was a

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<v Speaker 2>complaint made by a young childcare worker on placement at

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<v Speaker 2>the Point Cook Center, where Brown is actually charged already

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<v Speaker 2>with abusing babies and toddlers. They had said, look, we're

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<v Speaker 2>so understaffed. Workers are constantly being left alone with the kids,

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<v Speaker 2>and they thought rightly that was dangerous. So this complaint

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<v Speaker 2>was made while Brown was working there at the same

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<v Speaker 2>time he's accused of abusing kids there. In fact, most

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<v Speaker 2>of his serious offending was actually after that complaint was made.

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<v Speaker 3>This complaint had gone over G.

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<v Speaker 2>Eight's head to the regulator, and it was the regulator

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<v Speaker 2>who chose not to take it any further. They looked

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<v Speaker 2>at it and said, that's all right. And honestly, it's

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<v Speaker 2>one of the things I just can't stop thinking about.

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<v Speaker 1>Can we talk more about the way that the oversight

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<v Speaker 1>system works or doesn't work by the sounds of it.

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<v Speaker 1>So when a center is flagged, what is then done

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<v Speaker 1>to address that and to then make sure that it

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<v Speaker 1>is meeting standards?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, they say they review things. And I

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<v Speaker 2>wish I could lay this out for you in proper detail,

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<v Speaker 2>but there are so many agencies involved in so much

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<v Speaker 2>bureaucracy and secrecy, it is actually really difficult to get

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<v Speaker 2>the full picture. I've learned so some parts of government

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<v Speaker 2>don't even tell each other about child safety investigations. For example,

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<v Speaker 2>it's an entirely different branch of government here in Victoria

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<v Speaker 2>in charge of reviewing working with children's checks. Because at

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<v Speaker 2>the time Brown is arrested, he's still got a valid

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<v Speaker 2>children's check, even though we found out there were multiple

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<v Speaker 2>complaints made against him, he lied repeatedly on his resume,

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<v Speaker 2>he'd been fired more than three times, and he was

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<v Speaker 2>still deemed a very fit person to be working with kids.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the other key things at the heart of

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<v Speaker 2>abuse cases is usually supervision, so childcare workers will tell

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<v Speaker 2>you they're always understaffed at the really big for profit chains,

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<v Speaker 2>so they're always trying to get heaps of kids in

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<v Speaker 2>while kind of saving cash on staff. Basically is the

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<v Speaker 2>business model, but there's this idea of the two eyes rules,

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<v Speaker 2>so a kid shouldn't be left alone with one person.

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<v Speaker 2>If we're thinking about safety, there should be two people

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<v Speaker 2>in a room, never one, really though. The only legal

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<v Speaker 2>requirement are staffing ratios, which different in every state, but

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<v Speaker 2>usually it's about one educator to every four babies, and

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<v Speaker 2>it changes based on the age. But centers will sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>use an under the roof loophole, so they'll count off

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<v Speaker 2>as staff who aren't watching kids in those ratios.

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<v Speaker 3>Or they'll apply for exemptions.

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<v Speaker 2>The big problem is that the regulator doesn't really come

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<v Speaker 2>out to check, and when they do, sites are usually notified,

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<v Speaker 2>so in the case of Affinity, for example, I could

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<v Speaker 2>see them sending these staff wide memos thanking people for

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<v Speaker 2>filling in for their absent colleagues while the regulator was

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<v Speaker 2>on site. And even if they do get caught, more

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<v Speaker 2>often than not, the regulator will suggest, you know what,

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<v Speaker 2>you can just apply for a staffing exemption rather than

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<v Speaker 2>slapping them with any real consequence.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up cash bonus incentives at the cost of child safety. Sharon,

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<v Speaker 1>let's talk a bit more about Affinity, which is one

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<v Speaker 1>of the chains where Joshua Brown worked. Tell me about

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<v Speaker 1>how they operate, what we know about how they approach

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<v Speaker 1>both child safety and as a profit company making money.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so, Affinity are owned by a private equity group

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<v Speaker 2>Quadrant and since that group of coming, they've been really

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<v Speaker 2>aggressively buying up centers to expand their kind of revenue

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<v Speaker 2>base and take advantage of the government's push to have

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<v Speaker 2>more kids in childcare. And look, by comparison, Affinity spends

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<v Speaker 2>less on staff than other childcare chains, but their enrollment

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<v Speaker 2>push is really intense. So we found clear policies of

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<v Speaker 2>them instructing staff to infiltrate Facebook mothers groups to promote

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<v Speaker 2>their centers, and you know, like they'll get staff to

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<v Speaker 2>run prize competitions for which parent can write them the

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<v Speaker 2>best review. Also are confirmed that managers get big cash

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<v Speaker 2>bonuses sometimes tens of thousands of dollars and shares in

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<v Speaker 2>the company as incentives for growing those enrollments. So they're

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<v Speaker 2>always running these internal campaigns. There's shout outs from the CEO,

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<v Speaker 2>Tim Hickey, for his rising stars of enrollment or occupancy

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<v Speaker 2>is what they call it, and they always list growing

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<v Speaker 2>as their key priority rather than safety. In fact, one

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<v Speaker 2>thing we were leaked was this crisis meeting for staff

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<v Speaker 2>at Affinity. We actually got the full recording and it

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<v Speaker 2>was days after Four Corners had broadcast are really damning

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<v Speaker 2>expos into child safety breaches at Affinity centers in New

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<v Speaker 2>South Wales. And even then you can see the senior

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<v Speaker 2>execs saying, look, just stay focused on enrollments, just really

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<v Speaker 2>you know, brushing aside those real safety concerns.

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<v Speaker 3>That were aired.

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<v Speaker 1>And you mentioned Tim Hickey, the CEO of Affinity Education Group,

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<v Speaker 1>so he fronted the New South Wales parliamentary inquiry into

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<v Speaker 1>the childcare sector recently. So tell me about what he said.

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<v Speaker 7>Well, we've actually been investing a lot in compliance and

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<v Speaker 7>safety and doing a lot of work on our systems

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<v Speaker 7>and processes which are very robust, and we can take

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<v Speaker 7>you through the detail of what we actually do.

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<v Speaker 2>Hickey starts by saying he has the finger to the

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<v Speaker 2>pulse at all his centers, doing weekly meetings with staff

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<v Speaker 2>and regular visits, and then he can't answer any questions

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<v Speaker 2>about what was going on during safety incidents. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>apparently he didn't know that kind of day to day stuff.

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<v Speaker 7>My priority and what I'm hired to do is to

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<v Speaker 7>take care of Affinity centers and drive safety and quality,

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<v Speaker 7>because if we don't drive safe, high quality centers, we're

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<v Speaker 7>not going to have a sustainable business.

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<v Speaker 2>He was forced to admit he'd gotten pretty big bonuses

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<v Speaker 2>the same year as some of those safety scandals earlier

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<v Speaker 2>at Affinity. But the thing that did surprise me is

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<v Speaker 2>he really sort of doubled down and dismissed the idea

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<v Speaker 2>of there being a staffing problem, even though it's come

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<v Speaker 2>up again and again.

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<v Speaker 7>Our centers or a meeting or exceeding the national quality standard,

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<v Speaker 7>and the vast majority deliver excellent early education every day.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, in fairness to Affinity, there's a problem

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<v Speaker 2>in the bigger sector with a shortage of people. The

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<v Speaker 2>politicians grilling him brought it up a lot, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they're legally required staffing ratios being consistently broken at his centers.

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<v Speaker 1>And there was quite a fallout from his appearance at

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<v Speaker 1>the parliamentary inquiry.

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<v Speaker 3>Tell me about what happened after he gave evidence.

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<v Speaker 2>After that appearance, we had some more angry staff get

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<v Speaker 2>in touch and we found out that Affinity had ignored

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<v Speaker 2>a complaint about child safety at one of its centers

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<v Speaker 2>where Brown was being investigated, a complaint about a child

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<v Speaker 2>inappropriately touching another child, and this had been made after

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<v Speaker 2>Brown had actually.

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<v Speaker 3>Been arrested at the Escidence center.

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<v Speaker 2>Affinity didn't tell sex crime detectives who were then investigating Brown,

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<v Speaker 2>so the board of Affinity hadn't known that Affinity had

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<v Speaker 2>actually withheld so much information from police. I mean, it

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<v Speaker 2>was not just that they got the work history wrong

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<v Speaker 2>of Brown when they initially told police. It became apparent

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<v Speaker 2>that both these big childcare chains gps track their staff

0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:26.079
<v Speaker 2>to the minute and to the room location. It's usually

0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.200
<v Speaker 2>to stop people taking breaks, and they hadn't passed that

0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.800
<v Speaker 2>information to police for a very long time, and now

0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:36.800
<v Speaker 2>here they were not passing on another safety complaint to

0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:40.319
<v Speaker 2>the investigators. So suddenly we got word that Hickey and

0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:44.319
<v Speaker 2>his chief operating officer, a guy who had told parents

0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.240
<v Speaker 2>to stop being emotional over the Josh Brown case early on,

0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:49.880
<v Speaker 2>they were both going effective immediately.

0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.280
<v Speaker 1>Right, So some executives are gone, But the big question

0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:57.200
<v Speaker 1>moving forward is how much has actually changed at these

0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.240
<v Speaker 1>large chains since these allegations came to light.

0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.040
<v Speaker 2>Well, look, there was a lot of real horror when

0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:07.720
<v Speaker 2>the case broke, but so many of these problems have

0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:10.280
<v Speaker 2>been known for such a long time, and there is

0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.320
<v Speaker 2>a concern now that a lot of the solutions now

0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.520
<v Speaker 2>are being reached for are these quick band aid style

0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:21.320
<v Speaker 2>things like putting CCTV cameras and centers banning phones. There

0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:23.760
<v Speaker 2>is finally now going to be a national register of

0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:27.520
<v Speaker 2>childcare workers. Experts have been calling for that for years now,

0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:30.440
<v Speaker 2>so workers won't be able to just shop around between

0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.720
<v Speaker 2>states if they've lost their check somewhere else, and there

0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:37.520
<v Speaker 2>will be tougher penalties for breaches too. In New South Wales,

0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:41.240
<v Speaker 2>for example, the regulators talked about visiting centers once a

0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:45.160
<v Speaker 2>year now, but obviously that's still a very low amount,

0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.560
<v Speaker 2>so we need a regulator with teeth. The bigger issue

0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:53.480
<v Speaker 2>of understaffing and that proper regulation. It's more expensive, it's

0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:55.560
<v Speaker 2>harder to fix, but it's so important.

0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.480
<v Speaker 1>And Affinity is just one company in this space. So

0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.680
<v Speaker 1>and what does their story tell you about problems in

0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.320
<v Speaker 1>the way that the industry operates at large?

0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:10.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is definitely a symptom of the bigger industry.

0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:12.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean a lot of the problems at Affinity are

0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:16.280
<v Speaker 2>also problems at GSH And it really speaks to that

0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:20.000
<v Speaker 2>dominance and that rise of for profit providers in the

0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:23.080
<v Speaker 2>sectors rather than government run, community run.

0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:25.960
<v Speaker 3>Experts have been telling me that these.

0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:28.720
<v Speaker 2>Big private chains that have moved in, you know, they'll

0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:32.280
<v Speaker 2>have lawyers on retainer when a safety scandal breaks, and

0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.440
<v Speaker 2>it's in their interest to protect the company, not kids.

0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:37.320
<v Speaker 3>So there's this real.

0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:42.560
<v Speaker 2>Conflict there about protecting reputation and profit versus protecting children.

0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.240
<v Speaker 3>Think about sort of pressuring staff.

0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.480
<v Speaker 2>To get more kids through the door all the time,

0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:50.800
<v Speaker 2>even giving them equity in the company, so their income

0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:54.360
<v Speaker 2>is tied to this kind of growth. That's not a

0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.760
<v Speaker 2>great incentive to speak up and report. As they tell inquiries,

0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:00.320
<v Speaker 2>they always tell stuff to do.

0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:06.480
<v Speaker 1>Sharon, thank you so much for your time.

0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:07.920
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much. Ruby.

0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Also in the news, Environment Minister Murray Watt has rejected

0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:29.160
<v Speaker 1>calls to split the government's proposed Environmental Bill into two stages,

0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:33.520
<v Speaker 1>with laws for streamlining approvals and laws for environmental protections

0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:38.120
<v Speaker 1>to be introduced separately. The Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation

0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:41.440
<v Speaker 1>Actors expected to be introduced to Parliament this week, with

0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:43.680
<v Speaker 1>the Coalition calling on the Government to break up the

0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:47.880
<v Speaker 1>legislation with just three sitting weeks of Parliament left. Minister

0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.280
<v Speaker 1>What says he's still hope for the bill will be

0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:53.960
<v Speaker 1>passed this year, and Home Affairs Minister Tony Burke says

0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:57.960
<v Speaker 1>the Australian government acted on its own intelligence assessments as

0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:02.240
<v Speaker 1>Israel's intelligence agency named an alleged Iranian official behind anti

0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:05.880
<v Speaker 1>Semitic attacks in Australia. MASAD and the Office of the

0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.359
<v Speaker 1>Israeli Prime Minister have released a statement identifying a senior

0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:13.280
<v Speaker 1>commander in Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps as the person behind

0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:17.000
<v Speaker 1>anti Semitic attacks in Australia last year via a network

0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:21.840
<v Speaker 1>of recruited criminals and secret communications. I'm Ruby Jones. This

0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:23.600
<v Speaker 1>is seven am. Thanks for listening.