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Speaker 1: This is the fitsy En Whipper with Kate Richie podcast.

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Speaker 2: An important conversation to have around domestic violence, and I

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Speaker 2: think it's a conversation everybody should be having. So we

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Speaker 2: want to put a small warning out there if possibly

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Speaker 2: there's young ones or anybody that may have been affected

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Speaker 2: by this topic, that we're going to have an open

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Speaker 2: and a very honest conversation right now on the show.

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Speaker 3: I think we need to because violence towards women is

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Speaker 3: it's an alarming social issue that needs to be spoken

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Speaker 3: about at the moment. And Monday Night was a very

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Speaker 3: powerful episode of on the ABC of Q and A

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Speaker 3: because we had politicians on there. We had the Nationals

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Speaker 3: leader Bridget mackenzie, Labor front Bench and Murray Watten New

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Speaker 3: South I was Liberal leader Mark Speakman were on there.

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Speaker 3: But I feel like we've heard from politicians so much

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Speaker 3: and there's just no solutions. Well, they talk about a

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Speaker 3: royal commission and an investigation, but that is expensive, it

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Speaker 3: takes time, and we've heard it all before. One man's

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Speaker 3: step done. He is Macquarie University's criminologist. His name is

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Speaker 3: Vincent Hurley and he was very upset and he wanted

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Speaker 3: to have a go at the politicians that were on

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Speaker 3: the show.

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Speaker 4: This was Vincent on Q and A Monday Night.

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Speaker 5: How dare you go into politics in an environment like

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Speaker 5: this when one woman is murdered every four days and

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Speaker 5: all you two can do is immediately talk about politics.

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Speaker 1: That is just disgraceful?

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Speaker 5: Is it any wonder frontline services aren't getting the money

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Speaker 5: that they want. You made the comment we need to

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Speaker 5: listen more for God's sake? How long do we have

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Speaker 5: to listen to politicians like you and the rest of

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Speaker 5: you high horsing about. We have to have a royal commission.

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Speaker 5: We have to do this. Everyone he knows what the

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Speaker 5: answer what they First of all, that man should never

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Speaker 5: have been released on bail. Okay, that is the very

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Speaker 5: first thing that happened. If a male has a history

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Speaker 5: or crimes of violence of any form of domestic violence, coercion, physical, emotional.

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Speaker 1: They should not have the presumption of bail.

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Speaker 5: So you talk about domestic violence, it is more than

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Speaker 5: just domestic violence.

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Speaker 1: You don't need or commission.

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Speaker 5: That money needs to go into frontline services now, beautifully, sir?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I think what was sorry to talk over your

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Speaker 6: fifty I think and thank you to you welcome to

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Speaker 6: the show. Sorry, doctor Vincent Hurley, and thank you so much,

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Speaker 6: I think for being so passionate and saying exactly what

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Speaker 6: everyone continues to think and calling politicians out on when

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Speaker 6: this discussion isn't is opened, it becomes about what the

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Speaker 6: other what the other team's not doing, and what we

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Speaker 6: would do rather than posing solutions. So thank you so

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Speaker 6: much for saying it so succinctly and so passionately.

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Speaker 7: That's all for a very very worthwhile call. And you know,

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Speaker 7: thirty years overdue at the list, Doc, can I.

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Speaker 2: Just jump in their fits? You mentioned thirty years That's

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Speaker 2: exactly kind of what I've been thinking in recent times, doctor,

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Speaker 2: because I'll never forget a conversation after the Lint Cafe siege,

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Speaker 2: and there was a spokesperson for the police force that

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Speaker 2: came out and said, we need a billion dollars if

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Speaker 2: we were going to keep an eye on these lone

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Speaker 2: wolf attacks. And then he said, but do you want

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Speaker 2: to spend that money on a possible loan wolf attack

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Speaker 2: or do you want to spend that money solving an

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Speaker 2: issue where one woman is killed every week by domestic violence?

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Speaker 2: That was twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and of police commidents. Yeah, it is so true.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I'm gobsmacked at the parliamentarians of all persuasions,

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Speaker 7: state or federal, all of a sudden realized, Oh wow,

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Speaker 7: we've got a problem. This problem has always been there.

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Speaker 7: And when I read the press relief in the transcripts

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Speaker 7: from the yesterday's cabinet meetings, they talk about generational chain

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Speaker 7: but you know what, the funding that they go it's

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Speaker 7: very welcome and certainly more than justified. That funding only

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Speaker 7: lasts for five years. Now, how can they politicians of

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Speaker 7: any persuasion talk about generational change when they only funding

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Speaker 7: for five years? Since when is a generation five years? Sorry,

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Speaker 7: it's disgraceful. It is absolutely appalling. They are happy to

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Speaker 7: pull them running money into aucice, as I mentioned in

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Speaker 7: the Rosa interchange, because parliamentary is can sip a ribbon

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Speaker 7: and get cudos for that. But when it comes to

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Speaker 7: protecting the lives of women, which doesn't rate until now,

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Speaker 7: it doesn't rate an election issue, then they're just simply

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Speaker 7: ignored it their minds. And this I was so and

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Speaker 7: I still am so angered by the attitudes of politicians

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Speaker 7: that the politics has polluted their mind to the extent

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Speaker 7: that says the first thing they went to and you

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Speaker 7: oppositionally made that just incredibly outrageous suggestion along the lines

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Speaker 7: of I'm not trauma informed. I mean, for god's sake,

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Speaker 7: what does that tell us the women of our society

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Speaker 7: about the attitudes and the perception of politicians as so

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Speaker 7: out of touch with the main parliament that's the parliament

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Speaker 7: of the street.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, when you talk about not rating, like when you

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Speaker 6: talk about assisting domestic violence issues, and as you just said,

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Speaker 6: it doesn't rate like, it doesn't get people involved, it

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Speaker 6: doesn't get people voting. Isn't that an absolute swipe at

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Speaker 6: the female population? Who is half of us who are

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Speaker 6: all voting. And if you're not a female, you have

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Speaker 6: a mother or a daughter or a friend.

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Speaker 7: That that's so true. And you think about the poor

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Speaker 7: author the children that they're left behind, who from that

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Speaker 7: moment on witnessing that if they do or living with

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Speaker 7: the trauma for the rest of their life, it will

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Speaker 7: only take some type of prudgic social events after that

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Speaker 7: defend them off the rails psychologically into mental health. But

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Speaker 7: the politicians, they just don't get it. They just don't

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Speaker 7: get it.

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Speaker 4: Doctor Vince. So I want to ask you.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so Prime Minister Anthony Abanezi has announced that the

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Speaker 3: federal government will commit nine hundred and twenty five million

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Speaker 3: dollars over the next five years. You said it's not

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Speaker 3: long enough. Five years is not long enough. But I

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Speaker 3: want to ask you when you talk about frontline services.

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Speaker 3: But we look at the strong laws that have been

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Speaker 3: brought down on bikes, on terrorists, on coward punches, do

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Speaker 3: we need a.

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Speaker 4: Strike force like what they do with the bikings.

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Speaker 3: And don't get me wrong, I look, I know it's

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Speaker 3: a brutal way to do it, but I think it's

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Speaker 3: needed in this country.

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Speaker 4: Do we need a strike force that?

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Speaker 1: It astounds me?

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Speaker 3: Doctor Vince that a bike, he can jump on a

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Speaker 3: bike and if he's around someone with the same colors,

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Speaker 3: you can have a strikeforce straight onto that person and

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Speaker 3: they can be booked straight away. Yet a man who

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Speaker 3: has a history of violence can drive past his ex's

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Speaker 3: house time after time and no one know what's going on.

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Speaker 4: Do we need a strikeforce for something like that?

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Speaker 7: Excellent point. A lot of people don't know about the

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Speaker 7: machinations or the workings of the police, which is totally understandable.

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Speaker 7: But most police stations and I was a part of it.

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Speaker 7: Have already had domestic violence arrest teams. Domestic violence arrest

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Speaker 7: teams and police go out and check on the offender

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Speaker 7: as well as the victim to make sure that the

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Speaker 7: offender is complying with the ABO, for example, and that

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Speaker 7: the victim understands or the victim needs talk to call

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Speaker 7: the police. So it's not really and I take the point,

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Speaker 7: it's not really a policing issue per se. It is

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Speaker 7: a government issue. The government need to put money into,

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Speaker 7: as I said, those frontline mental health and alcohol services

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Speaker 7: and gambling which are the causes of tension within family.

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Speaker 7: And just it's I just get more women of this

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Speaker 7: and what Kate said about half the women, you know,

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Speaker 7: it just it's a better belief that the parliamentarians of

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Speaker 7: all Persuasians have, you know, overlooked women. And a dear

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Speaker 7: friend of mine at the quari Uni who I worked

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Speaker 7: with yesterday said to me, Levina said to me, you know, Vince,

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Speaker 7: if you were other than anything other than an old

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Speaker 7: white male, if you were a female, your comments would

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Speaker 7: not have been taken seriously or they would have been dismissed.

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Speaker 7: And I would totally agree with that, totally agree with

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Speaker 7: it and Kate's spot on.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Vince, can I just ask you something when I've

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Speaker 6: heard you just now talking about the fact that there

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Speaker 6: are domestic violence units within the police department who go

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Speaker 6: out and check on the offenders and the victims, and

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Speaker 6: they make sure that both those parties are doing what

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Speaker 6: has been advised, advised, or what has been kind of implemented,

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Speaker 6: whether that's an ABO. And you say that you're checking

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Speaker 6: on the offender to make sure what they're doing, and

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Speaker 6: then you're checking on the victim to make sure that

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Speaker 6: they that they are okay. What I have found myself

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Speaker 6: thinking a lot about over the last you know, weeks

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Speaker 6: and months, is that I've found myself thinking less about

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Speaker 6: the random attacks, gender based attacks on women and more

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Speaker 6: about the attacks on women that happen within relationships or

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Speaker 6: within their own home, whether that's partner or an ex partner.

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Speaker 6: And I keep seeing the faces of women on the

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Speaker 6: front of the newspaper, who sorry that I keep seeing the.

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Speaker 7: It's just upset, I understand.

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Speaker 6: And I'm just sorry.

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Speaker 7: Is that.

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Speaker 6: Is that what encourages what sorry, what encourages a woman

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Speaker 6: to do to do what it is she should do,

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Speaker 6: or what we all think that she should do, is

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Speaker 6: stand up to the offender to keep herself safe, and

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Speaker 6: then by doing that, she becomes less safe.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly exactly. I understand the cycle of domestic violence

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Speaker 7: and the emotional bond that the males hold over females,

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Speaker 7: and it gradually creep up on them, and for the

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Speaker 7: women to make that decision to walk away, They've could

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Speaker 7: enagonize it that over six months more.

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Speaker 1: Don't you think it's more?

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Speaker 6: And now I'm talking over you, doctor Vincent, But I

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Speaker 6: just find it and I just hope that people listening.

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Speaker 1: And who.

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Speaker 6: You know, there's always this discussion about why I can't

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Speaker 6: believe that that person would stay with that person, Well,

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Speaker 6: why don't they just up and go? Well, I don't

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Speaker 6: think that any of the news that we've seen lately

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Speaker 6: about women being attacked by their ex partner and not

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Speaker 6: getting the amount of support that they need to make

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Speaker 6: the right decision for themselves and for their family, because

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Speaker 6: they absolutely it's their God given right to feel safe.

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Speaker 6: They are entitled to feel safe. To see the stories

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Speaker 6: of these other women who have done that and tried

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Speaker 6: to stand up and tried to move forward, and look

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Speaker 6: how it's turned out for them. Don't ever, don't ever

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Speaker 6: question why somebody stays somebody and I'm not.

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Speaker 7: Therefore, look at poor Hannah Clarke and Queensland several years ago,

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Speaker 7: and that lynchron society that downs the whole family in

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Speaker 7: Petrol and burns them all alive. You know, creatures like

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Speaker 7: that are lytro society, you know, Dr Vince.

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Speaker 2: I think the other thing is too from a guy's

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Speaker 2: point of view, from the average blokes point of view,

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Speaker 2: and the man on the street and the guy that

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Speaker 2: goes to the pub and has a beer, I think

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Speaker 2: the understanding is, well, I haven't paid it enough attention

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Speaker 2: because it's not me, and it's not my mates, and

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Speaker 2: it's not my world as such. And I think that's

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Speaker 2: been the dismissive nature of a lot of the thinking.

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Speaker 2: But I think the other point, and I think what

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Speaker 2: Kate's touching on too, is you don't you just don't

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Speaker 2: know what's going on. You've got no idea what's going

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Speaker 2: on behind closed doors and outside of the headlines that

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Speaker 2: we see in the stats and the numbers. Who knows,

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Speaker 2: I mean, who knows what happens next door with the

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Speaker 2: loving couple? At least that you think have a sturdy

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Speaker 2: and stable relationship. And that's the other scary thing. Nobody knows.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and look, that is the unfortunate a part of

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Speaker 7: it that you can't you can't believe the private life

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Speaker 7: of individuals behind the scenes. And that's a tragedy within itself.

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Speaker 7: And there's always going to be those those creatures in

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Speaker 7: society that prey on the women that do that. And

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Speaker 7: if God, you know, there was a way of being

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Speaker 7: able to preempt that type of behavior, then it'd be

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Speaker 7: the golden bullet everyone's looking for. And in many events

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Speaker 7: it's after the event, it's too late. So I would

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Speaker 7: just like to say to all of you girls and

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Speaker 7: women out there listening that there are people in society

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Speaker 7: that love and care for you, and no matter how

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Speaker 7: hard it might be to break that bond, you and

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Speaker 7: your children deserve far better than being treated as an

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Speaker 7: object or subject to any sexual or family violence.

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Speaker 6: Amazing. Thank you for saying that, because I think that

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Speaker 6: that's what people can feel, incredibly isolated and that they

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Speaker 6: don't deserve better, but they absolutely, they absolutely do.

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Speaker 4: It's there, right. I hope you get a phone called

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Speaker 4: doctor Vince. I really do. From our government.

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Speaker 3: I hope they sit you down and they talk to you,

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Speaker 3: because it is it is points like this. Women need

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Speaker 3: time to go to a women's refuge. They don't need

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Speaker 3: to worry about someone coming out on bail, doctor Vince

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Speaker 3: and not knowing what's going to happen next. Where are

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Speaker 3: we going to go from here? We need answers, We're

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Speaker 3: not getting them from politicians. Your two minutes on Q

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Speaker 3: and A the other night, Doctor Vince, was one of

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Speaker 3: the most powerful things I've heard come out of anyone's mouth.

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Speaker 4: So we appreciate and thank you for your time.

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Speaker 7: Thanks very much for the opportunity. It's a worthwhile cause

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Speaker 7: and will always be a worthwhile cause. Or the girls

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Speaker 7: and women just hang in there. You deserve better.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, doctor, Thank you. And you know what, Kate,

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Speaker 2: it is an interesting one, and I understand why you

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Speaker 2: get emotional because it's a conversation that is hard to

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Speaker 2: have and it's really confronting to have. So I think

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Speaker 2: for a lot of people are sitting back and thinking,

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Speaker 2: I don't know how to have that conversation.

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Speaker 6: Well, I haven't known how to have it, and I

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Speaker 6: felt incredibly nervous this morning knowing that we were going

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Speaker 6: to talk about this.

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Speaker 4: You got to try, Kate. You've got a daughter. This

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Speaker 4: is the other thing.

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Speaker 3: You've got to start having this conversation over the next

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Speaker 3: few years.

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Speaker 2: It's the men to do.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Well, I was thinking about that, and she is nine

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Speaker 6: years old and at the moment I'm relatively in control

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Speaker 6: of her and I can make her decisions and keep

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Speaker 6: her at home. But one day that isn't going to happen,

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Speaker 6: and I would like to think that she's going into

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Speaker 6: a much safer world where there is a lot more support.

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Speaker 2: Well said, all right, one hundred Aspect is the number

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Speaker 2: if you need to call you need advice. That's one

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Speaker 2: eight hundred and seventy three seven seven three two Sits

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Speaker 2: in Whipper with Kate Ritchie is a Nova podcast walk

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Speaker 2: great shows like this. Download the Nova Player via the

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Speaker 2: app Store or Google Play.

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Speaker 7: The Nova Player