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Speaker 1: Approche production.

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Speaker 2: Easter Sunday, two thousand and eight, Warren Meyer drives to

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Speaker 2: a place that looks harmless on the map, dom Dom Saddle,

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Speaker 2: a small roadside saddle and picnic pull out off the

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Speaker 2: Black Spur in the Yarrow Ranges. He's planning a short,

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Speaker 2: prepared hike before lunch with friends. Nothing ambitious, nothing reckless,

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Speaker 2: the kind of walk you take when you've done this

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Speaker 2: one hundred times before.

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Speaker 3: He's methodical.

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Speaker 2: He has what he needs, GPS, maps, food and water.

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Speaker 2: He knows how to read the country and how to

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Speaker 2: read a day.

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Speaker 3: The plan is.

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Speaker 2: Simple, step off, stretch the legs, you back in time

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Speaker 2: to eat lunch with his wife and friends. He parks

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Speaker 2: at the saddle forest on both sides, tracks red into

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Speaker 2: the trees and out of sight. It's the kind of

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Speaker 2: bush that fools you from the road, friendly at the edges, complicated.

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Speaker 2: As soon as you step in, he locks the car,

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Speaker 2: shoulders his pack and walks. What happens next is measured

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Speaker 2: in absence. No call to say he's running late, No

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Speaker 2: text to his wife to say the path took longer

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Speaker 2: than planned, no return to the trailhead. By early afternoon,

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Speaker 2: the timeline stops friends are waiting. The window to be

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Speaker 2: back closes, and the ordinary becomes unusual.

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Speaker 3: The alarm is raised within hours.

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Speaker 2: There are uniforms at Dom Dom saddle the air wing

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Speaker 2: circles above the canopy while ground crews mark out grids.

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Speaker 2: Daylight savings buys more time and everyone uses it. Volunteers,

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Speaker 2: police and locals move throughout the scrub, checking junctions, cut throughs,

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Speaker 2: and places the places a careful walker would and wouldn't go.

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Speaker 2: Evening comes, then night at the trailhead Z, his wife

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Speaker 2: and a friend stay in the car, eyes fixed on

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Speaker 2: the tree line. Any minute, Warren will walk out and

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Speaker 2: apologize to his wife for the worry, but he never emerges.

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Speaker 4: Warren Meyer went hiking in Victoria's Yarrow Rangers and was

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Speaker 4: never seen again.

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Speaker 3: This is episode three of The Missing Matter.

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Speaker 5: Warren matters, Okay, well, here we are, z Maya, one

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Speaker 5: of the people I admire highly in this space.

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Speaker 1: Zee, I have been following your journey to find your

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Speaker 1: beloved Warren for a very long time, and to be honest,

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Speaker 1: when I first sort of dipped into the world of

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Speaker 1: the Missing You're one of the first stories I read

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Speaker 1: about and heard about, so I feel very privileged to

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Speaker 1: be sitting here talking to you today.

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Speaker 6: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: So I've brought you on to the missing matter, Warren matters.

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Speaker 1: So you've described Warren as someone who's deeply connected to nature,

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Speaker 1: shaped by a childhood growing up in the Canadian Rockies.

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Speaker 1: Could you share some stories with our listeners that capture

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Speaker 1: his love of the outdoors and what continued for you

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Speaker 1: guys after you moved to Australia.

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Speaker 4: Well, Warren grew up in Calgary, which is about an

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Speaker 4: hour's drive to the Rockies. So even as a little boy,

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Speaker 4: he would do family trips up there, and I can

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Speaker 4: always remember his mum saying that he was the first

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Speaker 4: out of the car when they got to a place.

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Speaker 4: He'd run down to a lake, or run across to

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Speaker 4: some rocks, or checked the bush out or the forest out,

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Speaker 4: I should say, looking for animals and looking for anything

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Speaker 4: that is out of the ordinary, because you know, he

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Speaker 4: was in the city, so to go to the country

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Speaker 4: was his freedom. My first grandson is the same. He

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Speaker 4: cannot get enough of nature. So it seems to be

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Speaker 4: a family trade.

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Speaker 1: And you guys met very early, didn't you.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I met Warren on March the first, in nineteen

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Speaker 4: seventy six. I always remember that date and I met

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Speaker 4: him in Katmandu and we boarded an army truck that

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Speaker 4: had been converted to take us through to London.

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Speaker 6: It was a pretty rough trip.

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Speaker 4: We had tents stacked under seats and it was incredibly

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Speaker 4: adventurous and dramatic in many ways, but ended up going

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Speaker 4: through thirteen countries in weeks and a COSTAUS thirteen hundred dollars.

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Speaker 6: These are Warren's words.

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Speaker 1: Well, that sounds like an adventure of the best kind, really,

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Speaker 1: isn't it. And you guys fell in love on that trip,

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Speaker 1: I feel is the case.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, we did fall in love.

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Speaker 4: In fact, when we went to the taj Mahal it

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Speaker 4: was our first romantic stroll if you like. So you

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Speaker 4: couldn't get better than that.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing, It's very amazing. I love to hear those stories.

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Speaker 4: When we got to London, we bought it a very

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Speaker 4: clapped out combe van and traveled around Great Britain for

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Speaker 4: about three months, and that was another series of adventures.

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Speaker 4: This fan had three wheels the same size and the

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Speaker 4: fourth wheel was a different size, so we literally skidded

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Speaker 4: our way through the whole of Great Britain. Amazing, especially

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Speaker 4: in Ireland when it was wet every day. But you

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Speaker 4: can laugh about those things, of course, and it was

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Speaker 4: part of being young and not having much funds. And

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Speaker 4: after that, Warren I was going back to an engineering

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Speaker 4: job that was waiting for him, and I thought, well,

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Speaker 4: I'll go with him. I'd never been to Canada, not

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Speaker 4: thought much about it, but there I was.

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Speaker 6: On a plane going with him across to Calgary.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that has helped to build this love and

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Speaker 1: connection that I still see you have for Warren today.

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Speaker 6: Yes.

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Speaker 4: Well, why I think about your story a lot is

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Speaker 4: they were the same age that you were when your

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Speaker 4: mum went missing, and I see you as my daughter because.

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Speaker 6: You know, you went through.

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Speaker 4: It at the same age as my children went through it,

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Speaker 4: and I know when you get into your early twenties

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Speaker 4: you're just finding your way in life, You're just branching out,

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Speaker 4: and it's terrible to have something to have a parent

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Speaker 4: go mysteriously. So that's one of the reasons I've followed

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Speaker 4: you closely because I know the trauma that's attached to

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Speaker 4: that and it's something now that you carry through your life.

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Speaker 4: Same with my two children. It really sucked the life

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Speaker 4: out of them to lose their hero dads in such

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Speaker 4: dramatic circumstances, and it's something that is, as you know,

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Speaker 4: is always there and you just have to make the

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Speaker 4: best of life, build your life. They're both married with

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Speaker 4: two children each, but there's a hole there and that whole,

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Speaker 4: unfortunately will end up in the life journey that my

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Speaker 4: grandchildren make now, because it's an intergenerational thing and it's

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Speaker 4: very sad to see that unfold. I have lots of

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Speaker 4: questions from my grandchildren about their grandpa and it really

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Speaker 4: rips me apart sometimes some of the innocent things they say,

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Speaker 4: you know, especially in those early years where they thought

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Speaker 4: the night fairy could bring Grandpa to them.

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Speaker 6: Just terrible, terrible, tragic journey.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if someone passes away, if her parents passes away,

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Speaker 4: and you can say, well, this is what has taken

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Speaker 4: my dear husband and I miss him, you have an ending.

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Speaker 4: But with this it's just an ongoing open wound that

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Speaker 4: never heals. And I know your children probably feel.

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Speaker 6: The same way.

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Speaker 1: And it's very hard to navigate, I feel, because you

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Speaker 1: everyone has a different personality too, right, So I've got

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Speaker 1: three children, all with very different personalities and different coping

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Speaker 1: mechanisms as well. So I've got some or one in particular,

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Speaker 1: who is very engaging and very much wanting to be

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Speaker 1: a part of it and wanting to listen and hear,

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Speaker 1: And then I've got another one who just doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to listen to talk about it at all because it

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Speaker 1: upsets her. And then you know, I've had my youngest

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Speaker 1: who sort of come in and out, and it's been

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Speaker 1: very challenging for them, especially when they see their grandmother

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Speaker 1: in magazines and in newspapers and on TV and their

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Speaker 1: mum being on TV and potentially the stress that that

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Speaker 1: goes through. And I'm sure you know, Julian Renee have

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Speaker 1: the same for you when they see you having to

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Speaker 1: dredge yourself through what we do when we have a

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Speaker 1: missing person and we don't want to give up on

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Speaker 1: looking for them.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and it's very surreal, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: It's not the normal state of affairs in life. And

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Speaker 4: I was interviewed once on television a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 4: and my little prep grandchild came home and couldn't believe

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Speaker 4: that she could see the house there. And so the

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Speaker 4: next night came around, she says, where are the cameras.

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Speaker 4: Are we going to be on TV again tonight? You know,

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Speaker 4: there was something amusing about it, but it just showed

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Speaker 4: how out of the ordinary our lives are really that

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Speaker 4: it's not normal for the world to know your affairs,

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Speaker 4: and tragic affairs like this to be aired and commented on.

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Speaker 6: It's not easy. It's a horrible journey, as you know.

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Speaker 4: But there's good with the bad because most people really care.

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Speaker 4: The generosity of spirit that we've come across because of

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Speaker 4: our tragedy. I don't think would have been obvious if

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Speaker 4: something like this hadn't have happened.

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Speaker 6: So there's kind of.

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Speaker 4: A good part of life as well with this difficult journey.

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Speaker 6: That we do.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. And I always say, you know,

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Speaker 1: my cup is half full for the good people, you know,

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Speaker 1: And I think if I focus, for me personally on

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Speaker 1: the good rather than the bad, it does help me

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Speaker 1: keep going and keep the wheels spinning and keep coming

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Speaker 1: up with new ideas and trying my best to find

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Speaker 1: my mum and find out what's happened. And I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you're the same with Warren, with everything that you do

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Speaker 1: as well. He sounds like he was such an awesome

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Speaker 1: dad too, you know, like he took the kids away

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Speaker 1: on trips and Matu Peach you and the Kokoda track.

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Speaker 1: They must be really amazing and very important memories for

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Speaker 1: your kids too.

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Speaker 4: Oh they keep those memories close. And it's happened. Those

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Speaker 4: two big tess happened eighteen months before Warren went missing.

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Speaker 4: In fact, my daughter came back with Warren just three

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Speaker 4: months before he went missing, all excited about their South

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Speaker 4: America trip, and you could not imagine what was around

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Speaker 4: the corner. And they had special times with their dad though,

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Speaker 4: to keep forever. But it's sort of a lesson there

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Speaker 4: to us all. Don't waste your life on small things.

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Speaker 4: Get out there and do things and appreciate what you have,

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Speaker 4: because I can tell you it can change in an instant,

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Speaker 4: which certainly is what happened to us. In a blink

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Speaker 4: of an eye while we were away on holiday, just

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Speaker 4: Warren and myselfie was gone, you know, just like that.

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Speaker 1: And so let's talk about the day he went missing.

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Speaker 1: It was on Easter Sunday in two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 1: when he woke up early. I think you were planning

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Speaker 1: on driving him, but he decided he didn't want to

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Speaker 1: inconvenience you by making you drive him too early. So

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Speaker 1: he went by himself, and he prepared his pike and

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Speaker 1: his lunch and had himself all sorted. He had all

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Speaker 1: these bits and pieces his GPS. He's mappy at food

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Speaker 1: and water and batteries and torches and everything that he need,

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Speaker 1: very very prepared, because he was quite an experienced hiker.

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Speaker 1: Can you walk us through what happened that morning until

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Speaker 1: you realize that something was wrong?

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Speaker 4: Yes, Well, we went away as a group of ten,

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Speaker 4: so I spent the morning having breakfast out on a

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Speaker 4: balcony with the other friends and we were just laughing

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Speaker 4: and chatting and catching up. We'd been doing this for

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Speaker 4: about twenty years each Easter, and Warren would take that

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Speaker 4: morning walk on Easter Sunday and meet us for lunch afterwards.

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Speaker 4: There was nothing out of the ordinary in what he

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Speaker 4: was doing. He had chosen the closest heike to Hellsville

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Speaker 4: where we had been staying, so he was very knowledgeable

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Speaker 4: about the area and very mindful about what he was doing,

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Speaker 4: so we never thought anything about it. We'd been out

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Speaker 4: for dinner the night before and we just talked about

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Speaker 4: him going to dom Dom saddle and just basically everyone said,

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Speaker 4: we'll have a great height, we'll see you for lunch tomorrow.

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Speaker 4: So when lunchtime came on the Sunday and he wasn't back,

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Speaker 4: I thought, oh, well, maybe he's delayed a little. You know,

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Speaker 4: we'll go on and he'll catch us up. And I

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Speaker 4: still remember sitting in that restaurant looking at all the

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Speaker 4: people walking through and there wasn't Warren there. And you

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Speaker 4: don't immediately press a panic button and say, well, where

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Speaker 4: is he, what's happened? You tend to think things like, oh,

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Speaker 4: he's having a shower, he's got back a bit late,

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Speaker 4: he'll arrive anytime soon. And he just didn't come, and

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Speaker 4: we all started to worry because he had a fully

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Speaker 4: charged phone. His habit was to phone if anything was delay,

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Speaker 4: and so there was no response from his phone actually

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Speaker 4: when we started phoning. So in the end we couldn't

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Speaker 4: bear it any longer and we got up and left,

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Speaker 4: went back to where our cabins were, and his car

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Speaker 4: wasn't there. And that's when I had a real sinking

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Speaker 4: feeling like there is something seriously wrong here. So half

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Speaker 4: stayed at the cabins and half of us went to

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Speaker 4: Dom Dom's saddle and I expected to see a crash

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Speaker 4: car off the road. The black Spurs are very busy,

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Speaker 4: windy road and they have lots of accidents, so I thought, well, maybe.

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Speaker 6: That's what's happened.

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Speaker 4: I didn't want to go there either, but no car

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Speaker 4: was off the side and we drove into the car

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Speaker 4: park and his car was at the high end, the

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Speaker 4: first car we saw, and I thought, oh, what's going

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Speaker 4: on here as he lost his keys or something, so we.

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Speaker 6: Looked for a backpack.

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Speaker 4: We expected him to leave us a sign if he

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Speaker 4: was anywhere near, you know, filling in time. No backpack,

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Speaker 4: everything locked up. So we walked around for about ten

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Speaker 4: minutes and we realized this was very serious and phone

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Speaker 4: triple zero straight away, so that put us just after

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Speaker 4: four pm I think, and we were told that local

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Speaker 4: policts would come and they'd get the air wing out,

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Speaker 4: which was such a relief because I thought, well, there's

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Speaker 4: quite a few hours until it's dark, so we had

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Speaker 4: that extra hour or so of daylight.

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Speaker 1: Can you the landscape in there in the Australian bush

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Speaker 1: and landscape can be quite a harsh terrain. Can you

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Speaker 1: describe what that location was like? Just to help people

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Speaker 1: who were following along who might not know that area

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Speaker 1: very well, and you know when you're dealing with trying

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Speaker 1: to find war and what you were up against.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it's the landscape is rainforest. It's where water is generated.

267
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Speaker 4: For Melbourne really has quite a bit of rainfall, although

268
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Speaker 4: back then it was drought. Very messy bush, a lot

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Speaker 4: of pest plants because it sits on the doorstep of

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Speaker 4: a very large city and weeds get away. It's very

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Speaker 4: pretty with the Mountain Ash. I can imagine why Warren

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Speaker 4: wanted to go there because he was mad about trees

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Speaker 4: and the Mountain Ash was his favorite tree in terms

274
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Speaker 4: of searching. Then if you go into the bush, it's

275
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Speaker 4: a battle really. But having said that, there's roads and

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Speaker 4: tracks throughout that you can drive a vehicle down. There's

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Speaker 4: fire breaks on either side. There's no reason to be

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Speaker 4: going anywhere near the bush.

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Speaker 6: You admire it from afar.

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Speaker 4: And we did the day before we'd gone for a

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Speaker 4: hike and we had said how beautiful the bush was,

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Speaker 4: but it was very messy, very unattractive in a way,

283
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Speaker 4: so we had talked about the bush.

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Speaker 6: He was very aware of the messiness of the bush. Also,

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Speaker 6: he was only wearing shorts and a T shirt.

286
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Speaker 4: Now, I don't think he was up for punishment and

287
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Speaker 4: coming back all scratched and battered to go out for lunch.

288
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Speaker 6: I mean, it's a nonsense concept.

289
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Speaker 1: That he would go off the tracks. I mean, if

290
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Speaker 1: there's designated tracks there, he would have just stayed on

291
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Speaker 1: the track and admired the bush from afar.

292
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Speaker 4: And he had maps and GPS, he had all the

293
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,440
Speaker 4: tools there just to navigate his way through. He only

294
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Speaker 4: wanted to go five k's in and five k's out,

295
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Speaker 4: and he had worked it all out to be a

296
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Speaker 4: three and a half hour high and then fifteen minutes

297
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Speaker 4: or so back to Hillsville.

298
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Speaker 1: Yeah, to have lunch with you guys. Look, the initial search,

299
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Speaker 1: from what I've read, seemed quite promising. The air wing

300
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Speaker 1: was dispatched, as you said, and the police were on

301
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Speaker 1: site within hours. But I think you've told me before

302
00:18:01,721 --> 00:18:05,720
Speaker 1: that there was a critical assumption about the intent route

303
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Speaker 1: and that sent the searchers on a wrong path. I

304
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Speaker 1: guess you could say, could you explain the bush bashing

305
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Speaker 1: theory that started and why it was inaccurate for Warren?

306
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Speaker 4: Yes, Well, I knew Warren had brought maps with him

307
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Speaker 4: I'd seen them on a window sill, and I knew

308
00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:26,801
Speaker 4: he was a person to carry a map, at least

309
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Speaker 4: one map. And when I was called to the police

310
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Speaker 4: control room on Easter Monday morning, quite.

311
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Speaker 6: Early, we were trying to work out where he had gone.

312
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Speaker 4: So I mentioned the maps and I said he downloaded

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Speaker 4: them on the Fridays. So my son was staying at

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Speaker 4: our place and I got him to check the computer

315
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Speaker 4: to see what maps were downloaded, and we found one

316
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Speaker 4: of the missing maps and it was emailed through. Unfortunately,

317
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Speaker 4: I didn't know that dom Dom's Saddle was the name

318
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Speaker 4: of the place. I thought it related to the geographic

319
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Speaker 4: feature in the middle of that map, which is Mount

320
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Speaker 4: dom Dom, so I said, well, maybe that's what is

321
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:13,920
Speaker 4: meant by dom dom saddles. So unfortunately, up to the

322
00:19:13,921 --> 00:19:17,001
Speaker 4: top of Mount dom Dom there's no defined track. It's

323
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Speaker 4: basically you are bush bashing. But no one's told me that.

324
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Speaker 4: At the end of the first day, if someone had said, well, ze,

325
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Speaker 4: do you realize that there's no path up to the

326
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Speaker 4: top of the mountain. It's not really a huge mountain,

327
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Speaker 4: it's more like a giant hill, I would have said, well, no,

328
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Speaker 4: he wouldn't have gone that way, he would have stayed

329
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Speaker 4: to the tracks, and common sense tells you that, after all,

330
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Speaker 4: he had shorts and a T shirt on, so unfortunately

331
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Speaker 4: that place was stripped bare.

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Speaker 6: That's why I can say he wasn't there.

333
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Speaker 4: So that's where you get the concept, Oh, he liked

334
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Speaker 4: to bush bash, and that is so wrong to do that.

335
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Speaker 4: So assumptions are being made early, and it's really hard

336
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Speaker 4: to direct it away from something like that.

337
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Speaker 1: Is time goes on and your words are important, right.

338
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Speaker 1: I've said this in my mum's case as well, where

339
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Speaker 1: what people say at the very outset can carry all

340
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Speaker 1: the way through, and you're constantly like, we're sitting here

341
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Speaker 1: seventeen years later and you're still explaining the bushbashing situation

342
00:20:20,721 --> 00:20:23,761
Speaker 1: because it happened day one of the search, or the

343
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Speaker 1: second day after Warren went missing. Yes, how did that

344
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Speaker 1: early misunderstanding shape the outcome of the search?

345
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Speaker 4: Well, they did a search in other places, but the

346
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Speaker 4: focus mainly was on Mount dom Dom and there was

347
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Speaker 4: a five day search. I mean, when I think back now,

348
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Speaker 4: five days, it's such a short amount of time to

349
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Speaker 4: go searching for someone, and I believe that wouldn't happen today.

350
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Speaker 4: I believe the search would be extended to be on

351
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Speaker 4: five days, but that's all we got, and understanding of

352
00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,321
Speaker 4: what was happening in the environment wasn't established. I can't

353
00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:05,360
Speaker 4: complain too much about the actual physical search. Search and

354
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,801
Speaker 4: rescue were fantastic, and the community got behind us, and

355
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Speaker 4: I think there were about one hundred and sixty people searching,

356
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:18,001
Speaker 4: but the answers just weren't coming in those five days,

357
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Speaker 4: and we went from that to really not an investigation

358
00:21:22,721 --> 00:21:27,441
Speaker 4: following because of assumptions made. And here we are seventeen

359
00:21:27,681 --> 00:21:30,521
Speaker 4: and a half years later, not really getting to the

360
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,680
Speaker 4: crux of the matter, even today's.

361
00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 1: And you slept in your car that night, didn't you?

362
00:21:36,721 --> 00:21:38,641
Speaker 1: Was that the first night or was that the second night?

363
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Speaker 6: I slept about.

364
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,960
Speaker 4: Two nights, and it was very warm. Everyone called it

365
00:21:44,001 --> 00:21:48,961
Speaker 4: an Indian summer. Very late March, it was still warm weather,

366
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Speaker 4: and I had to keep the window down because it

367
00:21:52,521 --> 00:21:56,121
Speaker 4: was so hot inside the car, and the mosquitoes were

368
00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:59,521
Speaker 4: buzzing around. There was a full moon, and I remember

369
00:21:59,561 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 4: looking down the tracks quite often expecting Warren to be

370
00:22:02,801 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 4: walking towards me, and you know, you get these moving

371
00:22:06,281 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 4: shadows from the trees and it sort of makes you

372
00:22:09,761 --> 00:22:12,880
Speaker 4: feel alert and oh, he must be coming now, this

373
00:22:13,041 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 4: is him and it never was. It was the most

374
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Speaker 4: tortuous couple of nights I've ever spent in my life,

375
00:22:20,961 --> 00:22:24,481
Speaker 4: and exhausting, totally exhausting because you don't sleep.

376
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Speaker 1: I just my heart just breaks for you. I just yeah,

377
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 1: I can imagine just being there waiting for him to

378
00:22:31,761 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 1: walk out, because that's exactly what you expected. And you

379
00:22:35,961 --> 00:22:38,120
Speaker 1: know you're sitting here today talking to me about it,

380
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,161
Speaker 1: and he still hasn't come home. So you know we're

381
00:22:42,201 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 1: here with all your hope and all our prayers that

382
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,841
Speaker 1: you know we can find some answers to help you.

383
00:22:53,521 --> 00:22:56,041
Speaker 1: So we're going to move into the investigation side of

384
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:01,281
Speaker 1: and probably some missed opportunities, right for some resolution for

385
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:04,641
Speaker 1: your family. Well, I personally talk about closure. I'm sure

386
00:23:04,681 --> 00:23:07,401
Speaker 1: you don't either, because we don't get that right. It's

387
00:23:07,441 --> 00:23:10,561
Speaker 1: not something that we in the missing space are privilege

388
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,721
Speaker 1: to have. I guess.

389
00:23:14,561 --> 00:23:15,761
Speaker 6: There's no resolution.

390
00:23:16,241 --> 00:23:20,721
Speaker 4: You're just in this torment and you're looking for solving this.

391
00:23:21,521 --> 00:23:25,241
Speaker 4: That's the dominating thing. You want to bring your loved

392
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:30,400
Speaker 4: one home for uppermost, that's the thing that tortures you

393
00:23:30,481 --> 00:23:33,001
Speaker 4: from day to day, that you can't bring your loved

394
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,721
Speaker 4: one home. And then when you look at an investigation

395
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:41,241
Speaker 4: that went nowhere very quickly, with so many things either

396
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:47,681
Speaker 4: errors made or overlooking or experiential bias that was there

397
00:23:47,681 --> 00:23:51,721
Speaker 4: from the beginning, it's easy to see why I'm here

398
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 4: seventeen and a half years later, still asking police to

399
00:23:56,241 --> 00:24:01,561
Speaker 4: give us support. And there are three key issues that

400
00:24:01,961 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 4: stand out amongst all the other stuff that went on.

401
00:24:06,241 --> 00:24:08,481
Speaker 1: It sort of upsets me a lot to talk about

402
00:24:08,561 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 1: this first one, but the fact that local residents actually

403
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,961
Speaker 1: called police and reported this situation tell us a little

404
00:24:16,961 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: bit about that.

405
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 2: Well.

406
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:24,161
Speaker 4: On Easter Sunday, the day that Warren went missing, residents

407
00:24:24,481 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 4: heard out of control shooting to an extent that was

408
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,001
Speaker 4: terrifying for them. And they had six children out collecting

409
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,281
Speaker 4: Easter eggs, and their house was just up the hill

410
00:24:36,321 --> 00:24:39,961
Speaker 4: but well hidden by the forest, and they rushed them

411
00:24:40,001 --> 00:24:44,561
Speaker 4: inside for their own protection. And even over the last

412
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,121
Speaker 4: couple of years speaking to them, you can still see

413
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:48,161
Speaker 4: it's a trauma.

414
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,201
Speaker 6: It was so out of the blue, so.

415
00:24:51,441 --> 00:24:55,281
Speaker 4: Frightening, and nothing like you would have if there was

416
00:24:55,321 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 4: someone shooting deer or whatever, where you'd perhaps hear an

417
00:24:59,201 --> 00:25:04,801
Speaker 4: occasional pop. This was just the book bush going crazy.

418
00:25:04,521 --> 00:25:09,041
Speaker 4: So they were weekenders up there and they thought they'd

419
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,001
Speaker 4: reported the next weekend to local police, and they were

420
00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 4: very deliberate in what they said to the local police,

421
00:25:17,241 --> 00:25:21,001
Speaker 4: and they said there was a campsite there, a fresh

422
00:25:21,201 --> 00:25:24,521
Speaker 4: camp site that they felt should be checked, and no

423
00:25:24,721 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 4: action was taken. And out of the events that occurred

424
00:25:30,521 --> 00:25:33,041
Speaker 4: up there, you have to say, well, this extreme event

425
00:25:34,201 --> 00:25:37,961
Speaker 4: is really stands out. You know, it's highly probable where

426
00:25:37,961 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 4: I was shot in that chaos. And he knew that track,

427
00:25:42,201 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 4: it's called Manda Track, and he talked about it because

428
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,241
Speaker 4: it's part of the National Hiking Trail which goes all

429
00:25:49,241 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 4: the way up to Cooktown in Queensland. He even showed

430
00:25:53,681 --> 00:25:56,721
Speaker 4: me where that hike starts from in Hellsville.

431
00:25:56,921 --> 00:25:58,641
Speaker 6: That was why he was talking about it.

432
00:25:59,321 --> 00:26:01,880
Speaker 1: And that's where they found the campsite on that track

433
00:26:02,681 --> 00:26:03,201
Speaker 1: that was.

434
00:26:03,201 --> 00:26:04,881
Speaker 6: Just outside the water catchment.

435
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,281
Speaker 4: Yes, it was about two hundred and fifty meters from

436
00:26:09,441 --> 00:26:10,761
Speaker 4: where he parked his car.

437
00:26:11,241 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: And the police what did they do when the residents

438
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:16,721
Speaker 1: contacted the police, They did nothing.

439
00:26:17,561 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 4: They did nothing, And we found out about it in

440
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:25,041
Speaker 4: October two thousand and eight. So that's from March to October.

441
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 4: That's about seven or eight months, and we only found

442
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 4: out about it because the residents approached us after I

443
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 4: did a current affair and they were apologetic. They said, well,

444
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,281
Speaker 4: we feel we need to tell you this, but we

445
00:26:40,481 --> 00:26:44,001
Speaker 4: don't want to disrupt your lives or make it difficult

446
00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:44,561
Speaker 4: for you.

447
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:46,441
Speaker 6: But it was a blessing.

448
00:26:46,521 --> 00:26:50,921
Speaker 4: They did speak up and they assumed the police may

449
00:26:50,961 --> 00:26:54,201
Speaker 4: have done something, but the police did not do anything.

450
00:26:54,801 --> 00:26:58,001
Speaker 4: So already eight months down the track, you're trying to

451
00:26:58,041 --> 00:27:00,801
Speaker 4: do a catch up on an extreme event that should

452
00:27:00,801 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 4: have been handled a week after Warren went missing. Of

453
00:27:05,201 --> 00:27:08,441
Speaker 4: the biggest regrets that we've lost all that time.

454
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,801
Speaker 1: It's crazy to think did the police do anything in

455
00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:14,641
Speaker 1: future forward from there?

456
00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:16,761
Speaker 6: No, they haven't done anything.

457
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,561
Speaker 4: Still today, Look, this sounds brutal, but I believe after

458
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 4: a five day search we were just dumped. We had

459
00:27:23,681 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 4: one local detective this was way out of his league

460
00:27:28,561 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 4: and also in country towns police dealing with all the

461
00:27:33,201 --> 00:27:37,041
Speaker 4: other stuff, and then you come along with this complex case.

462
00:27:37,921 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 4: It's too hard to handle, and so I think that's

463
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 4: what happened with our case. It was put in the

464
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,801
Speaker 4: too hard basket, hoping that we'd go away that we

465
00:27:47,801 --> 00:27:51,241
Speaker 4: weren't going away, and we still will not go away.

466
00:27:52,241 --> 00:27:54,001
Speaker 1: And I think that's where I sort of get on

467
00:27:54,001 --> 00:27:57,401
Speaker 1: my high horse a little bit about missing persons cases.

468
00:27:57,441 --> 00:28:00,681
Speaker 1: I don't believe should fall to general duty's police at

469
00:28:00,721 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: a local station, because they're not trained understand they probably

470
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: haven't dealt with the missing person's case before, and so

471
00:28:08,961 --> 00:28:10,521
Speaker 1: things get lost.

472
00:28:10,961 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 4: Yes, And I think that if local police are dealing

473
00:28:14,241 --> 00:28:18,801
Speaker 4: with missing persons cases, it's usually the lost hiker. I

474
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 4: can see where the prejudice comes from that, Oh, well,

475
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 4: they're you know, of a certain age. Why I was

476
00:28:25,521 --> 00:28:28,241
Speaker 4: fifty seven, He must have had a heart attack or something.

477
00:28:28,561 --> 00:28:31,121
Speaker 4: All the things that were put to you which were

478
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 4: a nonsense. And I actually went to a doctor and

479
00:28:35,241 --> 00:28:38,121
Speaker 4: I said, well, I was with Warren twenty four to seven.

480
00:28:38,681 --> 00:28:41,881
Speaker 4: What you been exhibiting something if you'd had before he'd

481
00:28:41,921 --> 00:28:45,801
Speaker 4: had a massive heart attack. And the doctor said, well, yes,

482
00:28:45,921 --> 00:28:50,081
Speaker 4: there'd be a general sense of unwellness somewhere. There'd be indicators.

483
00:28:50,841 --> 00:28:54,241
Speaker 4: People don't just drop dead like that like in the movies.

484
00:28:54,801 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 4: But also common sense tells you he should have been

485
00:28:57,241 --> 00:28:59,841
Speaker 4: on a track if that was the case, And so

486
00:29:00,241 --> 00:29:04,281
Speaker 4: you're arguing with not so much arguing, but you're debating

487
00:29:04,761 --> 00:29:09,161
Speaker 4: the it's of a very fit, healthy man who would

488
00:29:09,161 --> 00:29:13,161
Speaker 4: not bushbash now, would not have a heart attack, when

489
00:29:13,401 --> 00:29:16,721
Speaker 4: in fact there should be just this open mind there

490
00:29:16,961 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 4: and there isn't. But with local police usually they're dealing

491
00:29:20,521 --> 00:29:26,041
Speaker 4: with lost people or they certainly haven't been dealing with

492
00:29:26,081 --> 00:29:27,241
Speaker 4: the case like ours.

493
00:29:27,321 --> 00:29:29,041
Speaker 6: Ours is a very rare case.

494
00:29:29,121 --> 00:29:32,161
Speaker 4: I understand that, but you've still got to come to

495
00:29:32,201 --> 00:29:36,641
Speaker 4: it with an open mind because shutting it down abandons

496
00:29:36,681 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 4: a family and you're just left there. You know that

497
00:29:39,401 --> 00:29:41,401
Speaker 4: you have to work out how to get through the

498
00:29:41,441 --> 00:29:44,481
Speaker 4: rest of your life when the way you've been treated

499
00:29:44,921 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 4: makes every day just a torture just to get up

500
00:29:48,041 --> 00:29:53,681
Speaker 4: and face another day of fairness and loss and ambiguity.

501
00:29:53,921 --> 00:29:56,481
Speaker 6: It's a really horrible journey.

502
00:29:56,841 --> 00:30:02,881
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. So there is a second investigation that

503
00:30:03,041 --> 00:30:05,041
Speaker 1: was sort of looked into as well. There was an

504
00:30:05,241 --> 00:30:10,161
Speaker 1: a psychiatric patient that had a violent intentions I guess

505
00:30:10,241 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: potentially overlapping with Warren's path around that same time, and

506
00:30:16,121 --> 00:30:18,681
Speaker 1: the man had said to be planning to kill people

507
00:30:18,721 --> 00:30:23,361
Speaker 1: and kill strangers. Can you explain to us the timeline error,

508
00:30:23,721 --> 00:30:27,081
Speaker 1: because I think this is important to get people to

509
00:30:27,241 --> 00:30:30,921
Speaker 1: understand as well, and the police resistance to look further

510
00:30:30,961 --> 00:30:31,401
Speaker 1: into this.

511
00:30:32,441 --> 00:30:36,641
Speaker 4: Yes, well, this patient was an absconder. To actually abscond

512
00:30:36,721 --> 00:30:39,881
Speaker 4: out of the facility was this huge undertaking. You've got

513
00:30:39,921 --> 00:30:42,121
Speaker 4: to jump onto a tree and then onto a roof

514
00:30:42,161 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 4: and over a wall. It's not something simple like walking

515
00:30:46,041 --> 00:30:51,841
Speaker 4: out of a door. Anyway, he absconded and took someone

516
00:30:51,881 --> 00:30:55,121
Speaker 4: else's car and came to Nabathong, which is about two

517
00:30:55,241 --> 00:30:58,681
Speaker 4: k's north of dom dom Saddle, and he ran out

518
00:30:58,681 --> 00:31:03,601
Speaker 4: of petrol and he stayed there until he was seen

519
00:31:04,041 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 4: at the end of Easter Saturday on a road that

520
00:31:08,081 --> 00:31:10,281
Speaker 4: could have taken him down to dom Dom's Saddle.

521
00:31:11,041 --> 00:31:13,121
Speaker 6: What we know is that he was picked up.

522
00:31:13,041 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 4: By campers at around ten o'clock the next morning, and

523
00:31:17,481 --> 00:31:20,481
Speaker 4: he was hungry and really desperate, and they were quite

524
00:31:20,521 --> 00:31:23,601
Speaker 4: afraid of him. He was in a really bad state,

525
00:31:24,361 --> 00:31:28,641
Speaker 4: and they drove him to Warburton, where he then claimed

526
00:31:28,641 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 4: to have walked home to his ex's house and he

527
00:31:33,321 --> 00:31:37,761
Speaker 4: was readmitted to hospital. What I found out recently when

528
00:31:37,801 --> 00:31:40,401
Speaker 4: I got the police files, which I hadn't read before,

529
00:31:41,241 --> 00:31:44,121
Speaker 4: really shocked me about this man. The level of his

530
00:31:44,441 --> 00:31:48,561
Speaker 4: wanting to be violent was exposed and he was aiming

531
00:31:48,681 --> 00:31:54,521
Speaker 4: to kill countless strangers. That was really scary to read about,

532
00:31:55,321 --> 00:31:57,521
Speaker 4: and that all the time they were searching up at

533
00:31:57,601 --> 00:32:00,361
Speaker 4: dom Dom and the very last day when they're packing

534
00:32:00,441 --> 00:32:03,801
Speaker 4: up the search, he had been interviewed by police and

535
00:32:03,881 --> 00:32:07,201
Speaker 4: the very first thing he did was absconed. He absconded

536
00:32:07,241 --> 00:32:10,161
Speaker 4: about three times that week, and the family believed he

537
00:32:10,201 --> 00:32:13,161
Speaker 4: had been put back into hospital and was getting appropriate

538
00:32:13,241 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 4: care when every time the police were mentioned he'd abscone.

539
00:32:17,881 --> 00:32:19,881
Speaker 4: And as I said, it wasn't easy to do that.

540
00:32:20,521 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 4: He was in a high dependency board, and yet he

541
00:32:23,241 --> 00:32:26,481
Speaker 4: was able to trick his way out and climb over

542
00:32:26,601 --> 00:32:30,361
Speaker 4: a very high wall. But the crux came for me

543
00:32:30,521 --> 00:32:34,361
Speaker 4: when I read that he'd taken a vehicle and gone

544
00:32:34,361 --> 00:32:38,321
Speaker 4: bush for three days, and then under.

545
00:32:38,081 --> 00:32:39,921
Speaker 6: His own volition, he came back.

546
00:32:39,961 --> 00:32:42,841
Speaker 4: And he was in this facility for another two weeks

547
00:32:42,841 --> 00:32:48,041
Speaker 4: and never attempted to abscond again. That certainly raises huge

548
00:32:48,161 --> 00:32:52,361
Speaker 4: questions about his behavior, and he was quite gleeful that

549
00:32:52,441 --> 00:32:55,681
Speaker 4: he'd filled the police and he'd gone off for three

550
00:32:55,761 --> 00:32:59,561
Speaker 4: days and then come back. So there are serious questions

551
00:32:59,601 --> 00:33:01,601
Speaker 4: that still need answering to this day.

552
00:33:02,481 --> 00:33:04,561
Speaker 1: And so how frustrating is for you when you get

553
00:33:04,601 --> 00:33:08,321
Speaker 1: little or no communication from the police that this was happening.

554
00:33:08,361 --> 00:33:10,521
Speaker 4: I thought he was under control, and you know, here

555
00:33:10,561 --> 00:33:12,881
Speaker 4: he is. As soon as the search is packed up.

556
00:33:12,881 --> 00:33:16,681
Speaker 4: He's gone bush for three days, having escaped from hospital.

557
00:33:16,721 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 4: It's just shocking. And I find that out, you know,

558
00:33:20,361 --> 00:33:22,921
Speaker 4: seventeen years down the track, when I've finally got the

559
00:33:23,081 --> 00:33:28,241
Speaker 4: police file to tell me that. So, yes, there's elements

560
00:33:28,241 --> 00:33:30,921
Speaker 4: of that that could still be investigated today.

561
00:33:31,801 --> 00:33:33,481
Speaker 1: And is that man still alive today?

562
00:33:33,561 --> 00:33:36,921
Speaker 6: Do you know he suicided in two thousand and nine.

563
00:33:38,801 --> 00:33:42,761
Speaker 1: And the third one, which well, there's a couple there's

564
00:33:42,761 --> 00:33:44,641
Speaker 1: a couple more things we're going to talk about, because

565
00:33:44,721 --> 00:33:48,041
Speaker 1: I find that there's so many interesting facets of Warren's

566
00:33:48,041 --> 00:33:51,801
Speaker 1: disappearance that probably haven't been looked into properly from police.

567
00:33:51,801 --> 00:33:54,801
Speaker 1: And I'm sure that will roll you a little bit

568
00:33:54,841 --> 00:33:58,081
Speaker 1: as well, because I know it's very frustrating to go

569
00:33:58,201 --> 00:34:02,161
Speaker 1: back over that, So I apologize if that's upsetting in advance.

570
00:34:03,041 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 1: So more recently, you had HR dogs alert multiple times

571
00:34:09,561 --> 00:34:14,121
Speaker 1: on the Maunda Track area. Four separate occasions. The dogs

572
00:34:14,121 --> 00:34:17,161
Speaker 1: have alerted to finding human remains over a twenty two

573
00:34:17,241 --> 00:34:21,201
Speaker 1: month period. This is still being investigated, and we have

574
00:34:21,281 --> 00:34:24,401
Speaker 1: spoken a bit on the phone about this, and we've

575
00:34:24,441 --> 00:34:27,641
Speaker 1: had a few chats and the restrictions and the hurdles

576
00:34:27,681 --> 00:34:31,161
Speaker 1: you've had to face regarding this information. Can you tell

577
00:34:31,241 --> 00:34:31,801
Speaker 1: us about that?

578
00:34:32,881 --> 00:34:36,961
Speaker 4: Yes, well, yes, four times they've alerted over twenty two months,

579
00:34:37,001 --> 00:34:38,881
Speaker 4: and there's gaps of a year.

580
00:34:39,281 --> 00:34:40,401
Speaker 6: Before they've come back.

581
00:34:40,681 --> 00:34:44,561
Speaker 4: A black lab called Billy, who belongs to Sada, is

582
00:34:44,601 --> 00:34:49,161
Speaker 4: a very switched on dog and was taken out in

583
00:34:49,281 --> 00:34:53,161
Speaker 4: October twenty twenty three with many curtists and doing a

584
00:34:53,201 --> 00:34:58,241
Speaker 4: podcast on Warren's story, and they journeyed about six k's

585
00:34:58,361 --> 00:35:01,161
Speaker 4: and the dogs like a little machine and just sits

586
00:35:01,161 --> 00:35:03,921
Speaker 4: in and out of the bush and around go as.

587
00:35:03,961 --> 00:35:07,601
Speaker 4: She's also a water dog and went into water, didn't

588
00:35:07,641 --> 00:35:12,401
Speaker 4: alert at all, and then coming back she alerted in

589
00:35:12,481 --> 00:35:16,121
Speaker 4: the area that the residents had taken us to show

590
00:35:16,201 --> 00:35:19,921
Speaker 4: us where the shooting had originated from, and so that

591
00:35:20,081 --> 00:35:20,921
Speaker 4: shocked everyone.

592
00:35:20,961 --> 00:35:23,201
Speaker 6: Of all the places to stop, it was there.

593
00:35:24,441 --> 00:35:28,401
Speaker 4: And three more times she has gone back, and the

594
00:35:28,481 --> 00:35:32,561
Speaker 4: last two was with another dog, and the behavior is

595
00:35:32,681 --> 00:35:36,481
Speaker 4: the same. The complexity of it is that it's on

596
00:35:36,561 --> 00:35:38,881
Speaker 4: the side of a hill and they seem to be

597
00:35:38,921 --> 00:35:44,281
Speaker 4: reacting to water runoff from the hill down onto this track,

598
00:35:45,201 --> 00:35:47,361
Speaker 4: but they've been consistent in doing that.

599
00:35:48,641 --> 00:35:50,641
Speaker 6: So when the Missing.

600
00:35:50,361 --> 00:35:53,921
Speaker 4: Person squad and SADA and some members from Search and

601
00:35:53,961 --> 00:35:58,161
Speaker 4: Rescue came up there with the family recently, there was

602
00:35:58,201 --> 00:36:02,401
Speaker 4: an anthropologist there as well, we were hoping that something

603
00:36:02,481 --> 00:36:06,601
Speaker 4: might be revealed, but already there'd been fit fifteen months between.

604
00:36:06,241 --> 00:36:07,881
Speaker 6: The last two visits.

605
00:36:08,041 --> 00:36:09,841
Speaker 4: You know, no one's in a hurry are they to

606
00:36:10,041 --> 00:36:11,041
Speaker 4: get out there?

607
00:36:11,401 --> 00:36:11,881
Speaker 6: Anyway?

608
00:36:12,241 --> 00:36:15,081
Speaker 4: We had a debate over the merits of whether human

609
00:36:15,321 --> 00:36:21,081
Speaker 4: remains dogs could tell the difference between human bacteria, vegetation bacteria,

610
00:36:21,241 --> 00:36:26,561
Speaker 4: or animal bacteria. I hope that they will take it

611
00:36:26,641 --> 00:36:31,081
Speaker 4: to experts and have this clarified, because as a family,

612
00:36:31,161 --> 00:36:34,001
Speaker 4: you shouldn't be standing up there debating the merits of

613
00:36:34,041 --> 00:36:35,521
Speaker 4: whether these dogs.

614
00:36:35,161 --> 00:36:35,801
Speaker 6: Work or not.

615
00:36:36,121 --> 00:36:39,681
Speaker 4: You know that should be understood. Human remains dogs are

616
00:36:39,761 --> 00:36:44,161
Speaker 4: used all over the world. My feeling is that there's

617
00:36:44,441 --> 00:36:46,841
Speaker 4: high probability that the.

618
00:36:46,881 --> 00:36:48,361
Speaker 6: Dogs are onto something.

619
00:36:49,241 --> 00:36:54,481
Speaker 4: My feeling also is that there's entangled weeds and mess

620
00:36:55,161 --> 00:36:58,841
Speaker 4: that is going to make it hard to pinpoint the

621
00:36:58,881 --> 00:37:02,761
Speaker 4: exact area. So in terms of justifying bringing in a

622
00:37:02,801 --> 00:37:08,201
Speaker 4: bulldozer to strip a general area. I don't think that

623
00:37:08,281 --> 00:37:10,521
Speaker 4: will be accepted by many people.

624
00:37:11,041 --> 00:37:12,801
Speaker 1: Is that area of land protected?

625
00:37:13,921 --> 00:37:14,641
Speaker 3: Yes? It is.

626
00:37:15,441 --> 00:37:20,521
Speaker 4: So it's frustrating and we may feel highly that he's there,

627
00:37:20,561 --> 00:37:22,561
Speaker 4: but we can't access the.

628
00:37:23,121 --> 00:37:27,521
Speaker 1: Spot and there's no way of working like there's no

629
00:37:27,601 --> 00:37:30,841
Speaker 1: applications or things that we can do to help, you know.

630
00:37:32,121 --> 00:37:35,601
Speaker 4: I've been trying to think is their sown or is

631
00:37:35,681 --> 00:37:38,801
Speaker 4: there but I can't see that there's a solution to this.

632
00:37:40,001 --> 00:37:42,681
Speaker 4: But the police have said to me they will take

633
00:37:42,721 --> 00:37:46,561
Speaker 4: it away and get further expert opinion on it and

634
00:37:46,601 --> 00:37:51,401
Speaker 4: will listen to Sada. Sadas putting together a package to

635
00:37:51,641 --> 00:37:57,121
Speaker 4: also send to the Missing Persons squad. Unfortunately, that leaves

636
00:37:57,201 --> 00:38:01,321
Speaker 4: us with one out, one thing to do that I

637
00:38:01,361 --> 00:38:04,001
Speaker 4: feel is the only other way, and I'll put it

638
00:38:04,041 --> 00:38:04,601
Speaker 4: to police.

639
00:38:05,081 --> 00:38:06,761
Speaker 6: I said that I feel that.

640
00:38:06,801 --> 00:38:10,161
Speaker 4: We haven't been supported, that they should be doing a

641
00:38:10,241 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 4: publicity for us, which they have never done, going way

642
00:38:14,001 --> 00:38:17,761
Speaker 4: back to that first week of when while I went missing,

643
00:38:18,201 --> 00:38:22,521
Speaker 4: they did work, but nothing since, which is upsetting. I've

644
00:38:22,561 --> 00:38:25,761
Speaker 4: been doing it all myself, basically, and I'm exhausted after

645
00:38:25,801 --> 00:38:26,641
Speaker 4: all this time.

646
00:38:27,481 --> 00:38:28,761
Speaker 6: And I said that.

647
00:38:28,801 --> 00:38:33,161
Speaker 4: We should be able to talk with police about a

648
00:38:33,281 --> 00:38:38,241
Speaker 4: reward because there's a lot of unanswered stuff in amongst

649
00:38:38,321 --> 00:38:42,721
Speaker 4: all that that's never been investigated, and that leaves just

650
00:38:43,401 --> 00:38:45,881
Speaker 4: one thing that could help us, and that is people

651
00:38:46,001 --> 00:38:49,561
Speaker 4: out there who know something. There has to be someone

652
00:38:49,641 --> 00:38:52,761
Speaker 4: who knows something, especially if it's related to.

653
00:38:53,881 --> 00:38:56,361
Speaker 6: The shooting event. It was so extreme.

654
00:38:56,681 --> 00:38:59,961
Speaker 4: I can't see that people would go home after Easter

655
00:39:00,081 --> 00:39:04,001
Speaker 4: and not talk about it to someone, you know, relationships

656
00:39:04,481 --> 00:39:08,361
Speaker 4: chain and I feel that someone out there, or persons

657
00:39:08,561 --> 00:39:12,281
Speaker 4: other persons are sitting on information that it's time now

658
00:39:12,321 --> 00:39:16,841
Speaker 4: to come forward and say what you know, it's just terrific.

659
00:39:16,881 --> 00:39:20,081
Speaker 4: We can't shut this down. We'll continue any way we

660
00:39:20,161 --> 00:39:23,001
Speaker 4: can possible, but if people can give us a bit

661
00:39:23,041 --> 00:39:26,161
Speaker 4: of peace of mind, and as I've said, it's impacting

662
00:39:26,201 --> 00:39:31,241
Speaker 4: our grandchildren now that if they had any level of decency,

663
00:39:31,321 --> 00:39:32,721
Speaker 4: they would actually help.

664
00:39:33,321 --> 00:39:36,761
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think thinking about the shooting, it does

665
00:39:36,801 --> 00:39:39,121
Speaker 1: sort of give me the vibe that there's more than

666
00:39:39,161 --> 00:39:42,241
Speaker 1: one person there right there. Sounds like there's multiple going

667
00:39:42,281 --> 00:39:44,001
Speaker 1: off at the same time, So you'd have to think

668
00:39:44,001 --> 00:39:46,161
Speaker 1: that there would have been a few people. And even

669
00:39:46,201 --> 00:39:49,401
Speaker 1: if those people could come forward and say, well, yes,

670
00:39:49,481 --> 00:39:51,841
Speaker 1: we were there and we were doing this, but we

671
00:39:51,881 --> 00:39:55,041
Speaker 1: don't know anything, or we know something like it would

672
00:39:55,041 --> 00:39:59,521
Speaker 1: be very beneficial. So Zee there is currently no reward

673
00:40:00,201 --> 00:40:04,041
Speaker 1: for any information regarding Warren's disappearance.

674
00:40:05,081 --> 00:40:06,121
Speaker 6: There's no reward.

675
00:40:06,681 --> 00:40:10,601
Speaker 1: We need to push Victorian Police like we need to

676
00:40:10,681 --> 00:40:13,961
Speaker 1: help you and be a voice to help you push

677
00:40:14,001 --> 00:40:17,401
Speaker 1: for this. I think that's really important because I'm certain

678
00:40:17,441 --> 00:40:17,921
Speaker 1: people know.

679
00:40:19,001 --> 00:40:24,081
Speaker 4: Yes, I mean, because of those three events, they're so

680
00:40:24,241 --> 00:40:27,441
Speaker 4: extreme and out of the ordinary and not handled properly.

681
00:40:27,481 --> 00:40:30,641
Speaker 4: There was this era with the time frame with the

682
00:40:30,801 --> 00:40:34,881
Speaker 4: site patient Warren and he could have come across and

683
00:40:34,921 --> 00:40:38,161
Speaker 4: we always said there was a two hour window of opportunity,

684
00:40:38,201 --> 00:40:41,081
Speaker 4: and the police kept saying there was only one hour.

685
00:40:41,521 --> 00:40:44,921
Speaker 4: And because of that, it was dropped within five days

686
00:40:45,601 --> 00:40:49,361
Speaker 4: and it should not have been dropped, especially when the

687
00:40:49,681 --> 00:40:51,681
Speaker 4: patient was absconding like that.

688
00:40:52,481 --> 00:40:55,641
Speaker 6: It was an error made by the local detective.

689
00:40:55,121 --> 00:40:58,721
Speaker 4: Which was then passed on to Homicide, which was then

690
00:40:58,801 --> 00:41:02,041
Speaker 4: passed on to the coroner, and it was recorded in

691
00:41:02,121 --> 00:41:06,561
Speaker 4: the finding. And it was only when Valentine Smith came

692
00:41:06,601 --> 00:41:09,921
Speaker 4: on board in twenty eighteen and did a thorough review

693
00:41:09,961 --> 00:41:13,041
Speaker 4: of the case that he brought it to the attention

694
00:41:13,441 --> 00:41:18,001
Speaker 4: of the coroner. It took further years for the coroner

695
00:41:18,081 --> 00:41:21,641
Speaker 4: to finally alter it, and that was during the COVID years.

696
00:41:21,961 --> 00:41:22,961
Speaker 6: I mean, where is.

697
00:41:22,921 --> 00:41:26,401
Speaker 4: It in the whole journey we've done where someone has

698
00:41:26,481 --> 00:41:29,721
Speaker 4: stepped up and said we've got to help this family.

699
00:41:29,841 --> 00:41:32,681
Speaker 4: It just hasn't It just hasn't taken place.

700
00:41:35,841 --> 00:41:39,001
Speaker 1: Well, let's certainly put it out there into the universe,

701
00:41:39,081 --> 00:41:41,801
Speaker 1: because I think that's definitely something that should be happening.

702
00:41:41,841 --> 00:41:44,321
Speaker 1: I mean, the reality is, I'm doing this with every

703
00:41:44,361 --> 00:41:48,841
Speaker 1: case because not to bring upset or sadness to the case,

704
00:41:48,881 --> 00:41:51,921
Speaker 1: but just some reality for people who are listening to

705
00:41:52,041 --> 00:41:54,681
Speaker 1: think about it, because you know, with Warren, he's now

706
00:41:54,721 --> 00:41:58,001
Speaker 1: been missing for six three hundred and fifty five days,

707
00:41:58,481 --> 00:42:01,681
Speaker 1: and that is a long trauma for you Zee as

708
00:42:01,761 --> 00:42:06,881
Speaker 1: his wife, to be putting yourself through everything, your children,

709
00:42:07,041 --> 00:42:10,761
Speaker 1: your grandchildren, as you said, even you know Warren's friends.

710
00:42:10,801 --> 00:42:16,001
Speaker 1: I'm the trauma and the ambiguous feeling and the ambiguity

711
00:42:16,001 --> 00:42:19,161
Speaker 1: that we're living with extends, doesn't it. It just doesn't

712
00:42:19,161 --> 00:42:22,121
Speaker 1: stop with us as the next of kin or you know,

713
00:42:22,441 --> 00:42:25,241
Speaker 1: the people who are putting themselves forward, and it's very

714
00:42:25,281 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 1: stressful to do that. You have done such a great job,

715
00:42:28,281 --> 00:42:31,521
Speaker 1: like the amount of work and advocating you've done for

716
00:42:31,601 --> 00:42:35,721
Speaker 1: Warren is to be absolutely applauded, because you definitely stand

717
00:42:35,761 --> 00:42:38,081
Speaker 1: out for me, and, as I said to you before,

718
00:42:38,161 --> 00:42:40,961
Speaker 1: someone who I really looked up to. When you know,

719
00:42:41,041 --> 00:42:43,881
Speaker 1: I remember when Valentine was looking and digging deeper and

720
00:42:43,921 --> 00:42:46,121
Speaker 1: finding things, and I was like, oh, wow, that is

721
00:42:46,241 --> 00:42:49,441
Speaker 1: such good police work, you know, And it does happen,

722
00:42:49,601 --> 00:42:53,561
Speaker 1: but it's it's so rare, unfortunately, that we get that

723
00:42:53,601 --> 00:42:56,241
Speaker 1: person who's just prepared to sort of put their neck

724
00:42:56,281 --> 00:42:58,801
Speaker 1: out and actually say I'm going to do more than

725
00:42:58,841 --> 00:43:01,841
Speaker 1: the last person. Now, look, let's talk about the coroner's

726
00:43:01,841 --> 00:43:05,041
Speaker 1: court experience for you, because I know that's another area,

727
00:43:05,321 --> 00:43:08,801
Speaker 1: a whole other area of disappointment and stress that we

728
00:43:08,961 --> 00:43:11,041
Speaker 1: have to deal with in the missing space. But it

729
00:43:11,641 --> 00:43:16,441
Speaker 1: took you ten years to receive Warren's death certificate, and

730
00:43:16,481 --> 00:43:21,081
Speaker 1: I know you've spoken about the coroner's court being an

731
00:43:21,081 --> 00:43:25,321
Speaker 1: intimidating and unsupportive place for families. Can you describe for

732
00:43:25,401 --> 00:43:29,121
Speaker 1: me what that process was like and why it was

733
00:43:29,161 --> 00:43:30,001
Speaker 1: so difficult for you?

734
00:43:30,841 --> 00:43:34,401
Speaker 4: Yes, Well, how many people end up in the corners court,

735
00:43:34,441 --> 00:43:37,561
Speaker 4: I would say very few, But I felt that that

736
00:43:37,761 --> 00:43:40,841
Speaker 4: was the way of bringing all the issues we had

737
00:43:40,921 --> 00:43:44,961
Speaker 4: out into the open, and we had been promised an inquest,

738
00:43:45,641 --> 00:43:49,361
Speaker 4: which was then taken away, and we just saw one

739
00:43:49,481 --> 00:43:54,361
Speaker 4: year after another after another just disappear with poor communication,

740
00:43:55,201 --> 00:44:00,001
Speaker 4: lack of empathy. We were just shocked at how things

741
00:44:00,041 --> 00:44:03,281
Speaker 4: were conducted. And in the end, after ten years, you

742
00:44:03,401 --> 00:44:07,041
Speaker 4: just say, look, I wanted over with. I'm trying to

743
00:44:07,081 --> 00:44:11,601
Speaker 4: survive without Warne's death certificate or acknowledgment.

744
00:44:10,961 --> 00:44:11,641
Speaker 6: That he is dead.

745
00:44:11,761 --> 00:44:16,241
Speaker 4: I have battles with various institutions, even over the smallest

746
00:44:16,321 --> 00:44:21,801
Speaker 4: of things. This is traumatic and it finally came to

747
00:44:21,841 --> 00:44:26,361
Speaker 4: an end after ten years, and it was very unsatisfactory.

748
00:44:27,121 --> 00:44:30,401
Speaker 4: What I found out about Theer's Court over those years

749
00:44:30,561 --> 00:44:34,121
Speaker 4: was it was very dysfunctional. And I won't go into

750
00:44:34,121 --> 00:44:38,521
Speaker 4: the tragedies of what actually occurred, but the court was

751
00:44:38,561 --> 00:44:44,161
Speaker 4: actually find the maximum for an unsafe toxic workplace. Now,

752
00:44:44,241 --> 00:44:47,041
Speaker 4: all families should be able to walk into an institution

753
00:44:47,401 --> 00:44:51,041
Speaker 4: like that this and know that they will be listened to,

754
00:44:51,761 --> 00:44:54,361
Speaker 4: that there will be care taken, and above all, that

755
00:44:54,401 --> 00:44:58,041
Speaker 4: there will be empathy. Because we come with tragic deaths

756
00:44:58,041 --> 00:45:02,161
Speaker 4: of our loved once and that wasn't the case. I'm

757
00:45:02,241 --> 00:45:06,041
Speaker 4: told that the Coroner's court is a different place now

758
00:45:06,081 --> 00:45:09,761
Speaker 4: to then. I'm also told that the police handle things

759
00:45:09,841 --> 00:45:15,321
Speaker 4: differently to when we went through the system. But it happened,

760
00:45:15,521 --> 00:45:18,441
Speaker 4: and we are living with the ramifications of it, and

761
00:45:18,481 --> 00:45:23,401
Speaker 4: we're still living with unresolved grief, and we are unable

762
00:45:23,481 --> 00:45:26,321
Speaker 4: to say, well, this is what's happened to Warren one

763
00:45:26,401 --> 00:45:27,201
Speaker 4: hundred percent.

764
00:45:28,361 --> 00:45:30,121
Speaker 6: We should not be abandoned.

765
00:45:30,881 --> 00:45:33,441
Speaker 4: Issues need to be looked at more closely, even to

766
00:45:33,561 --> 00:45:36,481
Speaker 4: this day, because you never know how things turn around.

767
00:45:36,681 --> 00:45:40,401
Speaker 4: You know, many years later cases can be solved. It

768
00:45:40,681 --> 00:45:46,361
Speaker 4: just needs key points being highlighted and examined closely, and

769
00:45:46,881 --> 00:45:50,801
Speaker 4: luck and the willingness of people out there in the

770
00:45:50,841 --> 00:45:52,361
Speaker 4: community to step.

771
00:45:52,121 --> 00:45:54,281
Speaker 1: Up and people not giving up.

772
00:45:54,441 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 4: Right, you don't have the choice, I think that's the thing.

773
00:45:58,521 --> 00:46:00,921
Speaker 4: And you would know that you don't have any other choice.

774
00:46:00,961 --> 00:46:03,121
Speaker 4: You're on this treadmill and you just have to keep

775
00:46:03,161 --> 00:46:08,201
Speaker 4: going because you're instincts tell you need this solved, you

776
00:46:08,321 --> 00:46:11,641
Speaker 4: need to bring your loved one home. And I'm getting

777
00:46:11,641 --> 00:46:14,281
Speaker 4: to the end of my life and I think, well,

778
00:46:14,641 --> 00:46:17,401
Speaker 4: how many people do I know who've passed away that

779
00:46:17,481 --> 00:46:20,401
Speaker 4: I've read about that they never found out what happened

780
00:46:20,441 --> 00:46:21,641
Speaker 4: to their loved one.

781
00:46:21,841 --> 00:46:25,881
Speaker 6: And it's just a horrible, horrible journey to take.

782
00:46:26,441 --> 00:46:29,201
Speaker 1: That's happening more and more and more, isn't it. And

783
00:46:29,401 --> 00:46:32,081
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that always I remembered

784
00:46:32,081 --> 00:46:36,721
Speaker 1: about listening to your case, you're talking about your house,

785
00:46:36,801 --> 00:46:38,801
Speaker 1: and said it was about you trying to just simply

786
00:46:38,921 --> 00:46:42,801
Speaker 1: change your address on your mortgage, and you couldn't do

787
00:46:42,881 --> 00:46:46,281
Speaker 1: that because Warren's name was actually on the documents, and

788
00:46:46,321 --> 00:46:49,601
Speaker 1: because you didn't have a death certificate, and his privacy's

789
00:46:49,601 --> 00:46:53,241
Speaker 1: still mattered, and you know, you couldn't speak for him.

790
00:46:53,801 --> 00:46:57,441
Speaker 1: Just the trauma that brings to a family with just

791
00:46:57,481 --> 00:46:58,881
Speaker 1: the simplest of things.

792
00:46:59,241 --> 00:47:01,801
Speaker 6: And I had to keep paying his insurance.

793
00:47:01,921 --> 00:47:03,841
Speaker 4: He wasn't working, but I had to keep because I

794
00:47:03,841 --> 00:47:06,721
Speaker 4: couldn't shut it out because it was his you know,

795
00:47:06,801 --> 00:47:09,481
Speaker 4: the ironies of it. So I spent eight years paying

796
00:47:10,801 --> 00:47:16,361
Speaker 4: his insurance and the whole thing is mad. But I

797
00:47:16,441 --> 00:47:19,801
Speaker 4: actually my sister's friend was working, I think with the ATO,

798
00:47:20,001 --> 00:47:23,321
Speaker 4: and there was something came in about a missing person's

799
00:47:23,561 --> 00:47:27,241
Speaker 4: and a family member had a query and no one

800
00:47:27,281 --> 00:47:29,761
Speaker 4: wanted to touch it because no one knew the answer,

801
00:47:29,801 --> 00:47:33,401
Speaker 4: and get being passed around and put in someone else's basket.

802
00:47:33,441 --> 00:47:36,721
Speaker 4: And got passed on again until it got to her

803
00:47:36,761 --> 00:47:40,121
Speaker 4: and she said, because of what has happened to Warren,

804
00:47:40,161 --> 00:47:43,921
Speaker 4: and I know the case really intimately, I can't pass

805
00:47:44,001 --> 00:47:46,601
Speaker 4: this on to someone else. I'm not responsible for this,

806
00:47:46,761 --> 00:47:48,961
Speaker 4: but I will find an answer for that family.

807
00:47:49,681 --> 00:47:50,601
Speaker 6: So there's a lot.

808
00:47:50,441 --> 00:47:54,801
Speaker 4: Of ducking and diving and hiding away because it's all

809
00:47:54,801 --> 00:47:58,441
Speaker 4: too hard. But if you think it's hard, what do

810
00:47:58,481 --> 00:48:01,721
Speaker 4: you think it's like for a family. I couldn't settle

811
00:48:01,841 --> 00:48:04,521
Speaker 4: after Warren went missing, and I sold the house, and

812
00:48:04,561 --> 00:48:08,241
Speaker 4: I moved about three times, and of course I.

813
00:48:08,201 --> 00:48:10,801
Speaker 6: Had to deal with the same issues every time I moved.

814
00:48:11,161 --> 00:48:14,681
Speaker 4: I'm well settled now, but the trauma I had to

815
00:48:14,721 --> 00:48:18,601
Speaker 4: move away from a suburb we love dearly, but I

816
00:48:18,721 --> 00:48:21,241
Speaker 4: was out there on the radar and people would cross

817
00:48:21,281 --> 00:48:24,441
Speaker 4: the street if they saw me coming. And all this

818
00:48:24,601 --> 00:48:29,081
Speaker 4: because we went away for anista holiday. Like your world

819
00:48:29,161 --> 00:48:34,561
Speaker 4: is thrown into such extremes. It's I wanted to hide away,

820
00:48:34,641 --> 00:48:37,281
Speaker 4: I must say, for a long time. But when I

821
00:48:37,321 --> 00:48:40,241
Speaker 4: finally came out, I came out swinging and I'll just

822
00:48:40,601 --> 00:48:43,001
Speaker 4: keep doing that because I don't want any other family

823
00:48:43,081 --> 00:48:44,601
Speaker 4: to go through what we've been through.

824
00:48:44,761 --> 00:48:47,401
Speaker 6: Sale It's horrible.

825
00:48:47,321 --> 00:48:49,201
Speaker 1: And I think that's kind of what drives you, right,

826
00:48:49,241 --> 00:48:51,721
Speaker 1: I think if you've got that personality, and I totally

827
00:48:51,761 --> 00:48:57,041
Speaker 1: understand it's not everyone has that personality either, but I think,

828
00:48:57,761 --> 00:49:00,881
Speaker 1: you know, you're very similar to me where I just

829
00:49:00,921 --> 00:49:03,641
Speaker 1: see you just keep going, You just you get knocked down,

830
00:49:03,721 --> 00:49:06,721
Speaker 1: you get back up, you keep going, and I think

831
00:49:06,841 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: you're really you're a really strong human. Who oh, thank

832
00:49:10,521 --> 00:49:14,361
Speaker 1: you highly admire because this is very, very difficult. And

833
00:49:14,561 --> 00:49:17,441
Speaker 1: you know, I know your family, particularly Warren, would be

834
00:49:17,481 --> 00:49:21,081
Speaker 1: extremely proud of everything that you've done to date.

835
00:49:21,841 --> 00:49:24,321
Speaker 4: Well, I know it's all to do with love in

836
00:49:24,361 --> 00:49:26,201
Speaker 4: the end, isn't it Like you had a love for

837
00:49:26,281 --> 00:49:28,801
Speaker 4: your mum and you also had an understanding about your

838
00:49:28,881 --> 00:49:32,521
Speaker 4: mom and I had a deep understanding. I was married

839
00:49:32,521 --> 00:49:37,041
Speaker 4: for thirty one years and he really was my soulmate

840
00:49:37,201 --> 00:49:42,401
Speaker 4: and made me laugh every day. And it's been taken away.

841
00:49:42,481 --> 00:49:46,201
Speaker 4: It was stolen away in the most extreme manner, and

842
00:49:46,321 --> 00:49:49,881
Speaker 4: especially when you're on holiday, you don't expect something like

843
00:49:49,921 --> 00:49:52,801
Speaker 4: that to happen. You expect to come home and continue

844
00:49:52,841 --> 00:49:55,241
Speaker 4: on with your life, and it just didn't happen.

845
00:49:56,241 --> 00:49:58,081
Speaker 1: And I'm so sorry for that. I'm sorry you've had

846
00:49:58,121 --> 00:50:00,921
Speaker 1: to live that. You know, I was talking to you

847
00:50:01,001 --> 00:50:03,641
Speaker 1: and we were talking about that you would like to

848
00:50:03,681 --> 00:50:08,401
Speaker 1: scatter Warren's in the rockies near Bamff. I have been

849
00:50:08,441 --> 00:50:11,121
Speaker 1: to Banff. It's such a beautiful location, and I can

850
00:50:11,521 --> 00:50:14,801
Speaker 1: just imagine that he would love nothing more to do that.

851
00:50:15,001 --> 00:50:18,121
Speaker 1: But you know, you've said to me the fear is

852
00:50:18,201 --> 00:50:20,761
Speaker 1: of you know, it's becoming more unlikely with every passing

853
00:50:20,841 --> 00:50:24,921
Speaker 1: year because we still haven't found him yet. You know,

854
00:50:24,961 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: what would it mean to you if you could make

855
00:50:27,481 --> 00:50:28,041
Speaker 1: that happen.

856
00:50:28,841 --> 00:50:31,361
Speaker 4: I feel it would be the final gift I could

857
00:50:31,361 --> 00:50:34,521
Speaker 4: give him if we could go back and scatter his

858
00:50:34,641 --> 00:50:35,681
Speaker 4: ashes near Bath.

859
00:50:36,281 --> 00:50:38,721
Speaker 6: It's very sad that both his parents died.

860
00:50:38,961 --> 00:50:42,961
Speaker 4: They lived about nine years after a while I went missing,

861
00:50:43,161 --> 00:50:47,881
Speaker 4: and it was such trauma. Warren's mum got dementia in

862
00:50:47,921 --> 00:50:51,401
Speaker 4: the end, and the doctor felt that the tragedy actually

863
00:50:51,481 --> 00:50:55,801
Speaker 4: hastened that with her. One of Warren's sisters has passed

864
00:50:55,841 --> 00:51:01,281
Speaker 4: away now and these dreams of you know, us all

865
00:51:01,521 --> 00:51:05,801
Speaker 4: getting together and doing something special for wine has been

866
00:51:05,881 --> 00:51:10,801
Speaker 4: ripped away bit by bit. And now with the way

867
00:51:10,961 --> 00:51:13,721
Speaker 4: the hill is up there in dom Dom's saddle, to

868
00:51:13,801 --> 00:51:16,121
Speaker 4: actually get any further with it.

869
00:51:16,161 --> 00:51:18,361
Speaker 6: I'm thinking it won't happen.

870
00:51:20,121 --> 00:51:22,561
Speaker 1: You've been very brave to come and chat with me, Zee,

871
00:51:22,641 --> 00:51:28,121
Speaker 1: I'm really grateful. I want to end these podcast episodes

872
00:51:28,121 --> 00:51:31,521
Speaker 1: that we're doing to bring awareness to these cases are

873
00:51:31,561 --> 00:51:34,881
Speaker 1: so important and the more we talk about it, the

874
00:51:34,881 --> 00:51:37,041
Speaker 1: more people will talk about it, and the more hope

875
00:51:37,081 --> 00:51:40,081
Speaker 1: we might find that one person who might have heard something,

876
00:51:40,161 --> 00:51:43,041
Speaker 1: might have seen something that can go I remember, let

877
00:51:43,081 --> 00:51:47,001
Speaker 1: me come forward and talk about it. Can you tell

878
00:51:47,281 --> 00:51:49,601
Speaker 1: us why Warren matters?

879
00:51:51,641 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 4: Warren matters, like any human being on the planet, has

880
00:51:55,481 --> 00:51:59,881
Speaker 4: the right to live peacefully and live their days out,

881
00:52:00,081 --> 00:52:04,041
Speaker 4: and that was stolen away from him in his middle years.

882
00:52:04,761 --> 00:52:09,041
Speaker 4: He did not deserve what happened to him. Something was

883
00:52:09,081 --> 00:52:12,001
Speaker 4: thrust upon him in the most horrific manner when he

884
00:52:12,081 --> 00:52:17,041
Speaker 4: went on a morning's hike, and the tragedy of it

885
00:52:17,121 --> 00:52:21,961
Speaker 4: is really extreme, I believe. And he was a special

886
00:52:22,081 --> 00:52:25,921
Speaker 4: person to so many people, so well loved, and people

887
00:52:26,001 --> 00:52:28,361
Speaker 4: have said to me he'd light up the room whenever

888
00:52:28,401 --> 00:52:30,681
Speaker 4: he walked in. He had a great sense of humor,

889
00:52:30,721 --> 00:52:34,961
Speaker 4: a wonderful personality. He was a business owner that was

890
00:52:35,001 --> 00:52:38,561
Speaker 4: loved by his staff, and the staff used to always

891
00:52:38,601 --> 00:52:41,881
Speaker 4: say just treats us so equally, you wouldn't know it

892
00:52:42,041 --> 00:52:46,441
Speaker 4: was the boss. The children loved him, the extended family

893
00:52:46,481 --> 00:52:50,681
Speaker 4: loved him like he had just had special traits as

894
00:52:50,721 --> 00:52:55,681
Speaker 4: a human being. And we all have the right to

895
00:52:55,761 --> 00:53:00,881
Speaker 4: live peacefully and to have our death when it comes acknowledged,

896
00:53:01,121 --> 00:53:05,241
Speaker 4: and have our loved ones around. He died alone. He

897
00:53:05,321 --> 00:53:12,361
Speaker 4: died alone out there. Sorry, I don't see, and that

898
00:53:12,481 --> 00:53:18,001
Speaker 4: really breaks my heart. I've got to know the family

899
00:53:18,281 --> 00:53:21,321
Speaker 4: where the shooting took place, and I've said to them,

900
00:53:21,801 --> 00:53:25,321
Speaker 4: he was such beautiful people. If only he knew you

901
00:53:25,401 --> 00:53:29,841
Speaker 4: were just there, hidden by the trees, it would have

902
00:53:29,881 --> 00:53:37,361
Speaker 4: given him so much comfort. Yeah, it's terrible, terrible to

903
00:53:37,441 --> 00:53:41,361
Speaker 4: die alone when you were so loved, so many people

904
00:53:41,441 --> 00:53:48,201
Speaker 4: love you, so try not to cry. But his last

905
00:53:48,241 --> 00:53:52,841
Speaker 4: perments must have been just awful, and you have to

906
00:53:52,881 --> 00:53:55,481
Speaker 4: face it. And I have to say, well that that

907
00:53:55,641 --> 00:53:59,641
Speaker 4: was really terrible. What happened to him the worst, And

908
00:53:59,721 --> 00:54:02,521
Speaker 4: all he was doing was going for a morning's hike.

909
00:54:06,721 --> 00:54:10,801
Speaker 1: Sorry, you don't apologize to me, not at all. Gosh,

910
00:54:11,041 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: it's it's so raw, isn't it. It's just it's so raw,

911
00:54:16,201 --> 00:54:20,441
Speaker 1: and you know he matters, He matters. I'm really hoping

912
00:54:20,601 --> 00:54:23,681
Speaker 1: ze that we can put this out there and we

913
00:54:23,681 --> 00:54:26,561
Speaker 1: can find some peace and some solities.

914
00:54:26,601 --> 00:54:28,801
Speaker 4: It would help if we could bring him home or

915
00:54:29,161 --> 00:54:35,001
Speaker 4: we could you know, find answers that would help in

916
00:54:35,041 --> 00:54:35,761
Speaker 4: this journey.

917
00:54:35,961 --> 00:54:40,201
Speaker 1: But yeah, and it's such a bit it's a bittersweet,

918
00:54:40,241 --> 00:54:42,441
Speaker 1: isn't it, because you know so many people are like, oh,

919
00:54:42,481 --> 00:54:46,441
Speaker 1: well with my mum as well. It's so sad because

920
00:54:46,481 --> 00:54:48,721
Speaker 1: you want to you want to have that element of hope,

921
00:54:49,121 --> 00:54:52,681
Speaker 1: but it's very hard. It's a hard journey and you know,

922
00:54:53,001 --> 00:54:56,921
Speaker 1: I empathize with you. So have you tried doing a

923
00:54:57,041 --> 00:55:01,321
Speaker 1: petition to see if we could get a reward happening with.

924
00:55:01,481 --> 00:55:04,001
Speaker 4: Well, this is in the hands is the place at

925
00:55:04,001 --> 00:55:07,801
Speaker 4: the moment, And and I know in Western Australia they're

926
00:55:08,241 --> 00:55:12,441
Speaker 4: offering up rewards for certain cases that are missing persons

927
00:55:12,601 --> 00:55:18,041
Speaker 4: cases which really don't have as much often in terms.

928
00:55:17,721 --> 00:55:19,001
Speaker 6: Of clues as we do.

929
00:55:19,201 --> 00:55:22,041
Speaker 4: I really feel a reward is a way to go

930
00:55:22,121 --> 00:55:26,241
Speaker 4: with our case because we need to flush out something.

931
00:55:26,641 --> 00:55:29,801
Speaker 4: And there's no doubt when you look at the shooting,

932
00:55:29,841 --> 00:55:31,401
Speaker 4: for example, that people know.

933
00:55:32,841 --> 00:55:35,481
Speaker 6: The other two incidents that occurred.

934
00:55:35,681 --> 00:55:40,201
Speaker 4: There are people who probably sit on information as well, so.

935
00:55:41,361 --> 00:55:44,481
Speaker 1: Well we can only hope. I think you know there's

936
00:55:44,561 --> 00:55:47,721
Speaker 1: good people, you know, in our space, in the missing space,

937
00:55:47,761 --> 00:55:51,761
Speaker 1: and in our communities that we're growing through Facebook. And

938
00:55:51,881 --> 00:55:54,081
Speaker 1: you know it does fall on us as the family

939
00:55:54,201 --> 00:55:58,041
Speaker 1: to keep those pushes. Otherwise they would just be a

940
00:55:58,081 --> 00:56:01,561
Speaker 1: file at sitting collecting dust. So you know, good on

941
00:56:01,641 --> 00:56:05,921
Speaker 1: you for being a hero and moving forward and moving

942
00:56:05,961 --> 00:56:08,761
Speaker 1: mountains to find Warren. And I wish you, thank you

943
00:56:08,961 --> 00:56:13,881
Speaker 1: every success, and hope that we get some answers.

944
00:56:14,121 --> 00:56:17,881
Speaker 4: And I think if I can just say, it's not

945
00:56:17,961 --> 00:56:21,801
Speaker 4: just your case and my case. You don't want this

946
00:56:21,961 --> 00:56:26,161
Speaker 4: to happen to anyone else. You want your loved one understood.

947
00:56:26,241 --> 00:56:29,201
Speaker 4: You want to know their behavior, their love for family,

948
00:56:30,001 --> 00:56:34,001
Speaker 4: their skills that they had. In Warren's case, this ability

949
00:56:34,081 --> 00:56:39,001
Speaker 4: to hike through a very simple environment should have been understood.

950
00:56:39,841 --> 00:56:41,481
Speaker 6: You just don't want.

951
00:56:41,441 --> 00:56:43,881
Speaker 4: Other people to face the walls that you and I

952
00:56:43,921 --> 00:56:49,361
Speaker 4: have faced, watching every year go by, watching the fumbling

953
00:56:49,481 --> 00:56:53,961
Speaker 4: through by authorities when they haven't really looked at things closely.

954
00:56:54,761 --> 00:56:57,241
Speaker 4: You've got to approach it with an open mind. You

955
00:56:57,481 --> 00:57:01,961
Speaker 4: cast your net wide. You don't just bring these biases

956
00:57:02,161 --> 00:57:07,721
Speaker 4: into a case, especially to earl when other things have found.

957
00:57:07,721 --> 00:57:10,881
Speaker 4: You should have someone available to talk to you, to

958
00:57:11,001 --> 00:57:14,681
Speaker 4: go through things you don't hide away and hope it

959
00:57:14,721 --> 00:57:17,441
Speaker 4: will go away, because as you know, it will never

960
00:57:17,521 --> 00:57:22,841
Speaker 4: go away. When you are on this treadmill called the missing,

961
00:57:23,041 --> 00:57:26,001
Speaker 4: there's no part of you that can just walk away,

962
00:57:26,801 --> 00:57:30,441
Speaker 4: and so you will continue. I will continue until my

963
00:57:30,601 --> 00:57:35,321
Speaker 4: time has come because Whyine deserved it, my children deserve it,

964
00:57:35,841 --> 00:57:37,921
Speaker 4: and now my grandchildren deserve it.

965
00:57:43,681 --> 00:57:45,961
Speaker 3: Next week on the missing matter.

966
00:57:47,801 --> 00:57:51,001
Speaker 7: That's a tricky question to answer. I think because of

967
00:57:51,041 --> 00:57:55,241
Speaker 7: the circumstances, it's not been as conducive to having the

968
00:57:55,481 --> 00:57:59,481
Speaker 7: entire family support. My main support base has been my husband.

969
00:57:59,841 --> 00:58:02,721
Speaker 7: Without him, I wouldn't have been able to go through

970
00:58:02,761 --> 00:58:05,801
Speaker 7: this journey, and I probably wouldn't be to this day.

971
00:58:06,521 --> 00:58:07,481
Speaker 3: It was so tough.

972
00:58:07,761 --> 00:58:10,721
Speaker 7: I was trying to juggle a really different form of

973
00:58:10,801 --> 00:58:15,801
Speaker 7: grief while dropping my kids off at KINDI streaming with tears,

974
00:58:16,161 --> 00:58:19,161
Speaker 7: and then having to go to work face people, and

975
00:58:19,201 --> 00:58:21,881
Speaker 7: then come home and then try to still wrap my

976
00:58:21,881 --> 00:58:23,401
Speaker 7: head around all this craziness.

977
00:58:23,041 --> 00:58:24,401
Speaker 6: That was going on.

978
00:58:25,841 --> 00:58:27,801
Speaker 7: I had to make that decision, and that he working

979
00:58:27,841 --> 00:58:30,041
Speaker 7: on the case became a full time job because I

980
00:58:30,081 --> 00:58:31,721
Speaker 7: was like, no, what I was listening to me I

981
00:58:32,881 --> 00:58:35,601
Speaker 7: can't let this just go