Speaker 1: Michelle Payne, Welcome to straight Talk.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: You're most welcome.
Speaker 3: Actually, that's a real honor privilege to have someone like
Speaker 3: you sitting here in front of me. To be frank
Speaker 3: with you, I never thought. I never expected.
Speaker 1: Famous is not a good word. I don't like that
Speaker 1: word famous.
Speaker 3: But have someone as highly respected as you and having
Speaker 3: achieved the levels you've achieved, and you know, I don't
Speaker 3: mean this in a condescending way, but being female as
Speaker 3: well in a male sport, which you know, that's something
Speaker 3: that I never envisaged. And and thanks to our great
Speaker 3: friend Naneah Melton. I'm so happy that you're here. And
Speaker 3: bear with me because I mean everyone in Australia follows
Speaker 3: Melbourne Cup. Everyone Australia has a bit of a bet.
Speaker 3: But I don't know much about your game or the
Speaker 3: game you used to be in now you're a trainer.
Speaker 3: We just bear with me a little bit because maybe
Speaker 3: this is even better that I don't know, because I'm
Speaker 3: going to ask some questions you might think a bit naive,
Speaker 3: but the things I'm really curious about, and before, but
Speaker 3: before I do that part, there's something else I'm really
Speaker 3: curious about.
Speaker 1: What it's like.
Speaker 3: And I watched the Netflix show on you you know,
Speaker 3: and you know, I saw all that sort of stuff,
Speaker 3: But I'm so glad I actually got you here in
Speaker 3: front of me. What is it like to be the
Speaker 3: youngest of ten kids? I mean, that's like mental I
Speaker 3: just can't imagine. I just can't imagine what it'd be like,
Speaker 3: especially as well not having your mom there. From from
Speaker 3: you probably never would never really knew it. I will never
Speaker 3: had a chance of knowing you. What's that like when
Speaker 3: you reflect back.
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny you say that. Like, as I'm older now,
Speaker 2: I realized how unusual that is to have such a
Speaker 2: big family. But obviously I didn't know any different growing up,
Speaker 2: so it was it was all we knew. It was
Speaker 2: a madhouse. My dad did his best, raising all ten
Speaker 2: of us on his own. When Mom passed away, I
Speaker 2: didn't have a room for the first seven years of
Speaker 2: my life, didn't have a bed, so I just found
Speaker 2: somewhere to sleep. And then after that I shared with Stevie,
Speaker 2: my the second youngest, older brother, who has Down syndrome,
Speaker 2: and that in itself, you know, had it challenges because
Speaker 2: he would snore and talk to himself and whatever. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it was. It was fast paced kids everywhere. When I
Speaker 2: was born, my oldest sister, two older sisters were already
Speaker 2: riding in races, so they were fifteen and sixteen, so
Speaker 2: they were off to the races. So as I grew
Speaker 2: a lot of the other kids below them started racing.
Speaker 2: So we had a house full of jockeys. And my
Speaker 2: dad was a horse trainer, so up early training the
Speaker 2: horses with him. Us younger kids stayed in the house
Speaker 2: and cleaned it. We all had our chores while the
Speaker 2: older ones went out and did the stable work and
Speaker 2: got the horses done. So it was just a working family.
Speaker 2: My dad loved it. He said it was some of
Speaker 2: the best years of his life, even though he had
Speaker 2: obviously lost my mum, which was devastating. That a really
Speaker 2: good marriage and loving marriage. But yeah, it was. It
Speaker 2: was pretty fun, I have to say.
Speaker 1: It was fun. Always fun.
Speaker 2: Not always fun. You know, when we went to school
Speaker 2: and we were tired, falling asleep at school because we're
Speaker 2: up early doing our jobs, and thought we were a
Speaker 2: little bit hard done by that. We had to work
Speaker 2: in our school friends, you know, were having a sleep
Speaker 2: in and just had to get ready and off to school.
Speaker 2: But when we look back, we had so much fun.
Speaker 2: We were always you know, outside playing games and activities,
Speaker 2: and I think sometimes we look back and think we
Speaker 2: survived because obviously hard for dad to keep track of
Speaker 2: ten kids. He just had to let us go. Stevie
Speaker 2: and I were the youngest two, and he was, you know,
Speaker 2: older than me but down syndrome. So you know, we
Speaker 2: were off doing whatever we did out on the farm
Speaker 2: and having the time of our lives. But you know,
Speaker 2: looking back, you know it was probably a bit dangerous
Speaker 2: in a way, but at the same time a wonderful childhood.
Speaker 3: It's because not only were you one of ten, which is, like,
Speaker 3: as I not normal even back in that time, when
Speaker 3: if we go back twenty thirty years, that wasn't normal
Speaker 3: there neither. But then of course, no mother, your dad.
Speaker 3: I mean I got four kids, four sons, and I
Speaker 3: pretty much raised my four sons on mine. They live
Speaker 3: with me for a whole lot of complicated reasons, and
Speaker 3: that was enough for me. But I had, you know,
Speaker 3: a nanny and a driver pick him up from school
Speaker 3: to drop him to sport. Has someone to come and
Speaker 3: do all the washing and sort of all I did
Speaker 3: was go to work and have dinner with them at night.
Speaker 3: Your dad, do you sit back and reflect on how
Speaker 3: the hell did you do it?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Obviously the older you get, you realize. And he's
Speaker 2: a pretty amazing man in his own way. Like I said,
Speaker 2: to even be relaxed enough to let us go out
Speaker 2: and play here, he had to. I think he couldn't
Speaker 2: have survived if he was worrying about every one child.
Speaker 2: In a way, a bit of luck went our away
Speaker 2: with that, because you know, somebody could have got injured,
Speaker 2: sort of having that free rain on the farm, Like
Speaker 2: we had motorbikes and like four wheelers. There was a
Speaker 2: channel that ran beside our dairy farm, which we had
Speaker 2: at one point growing up, and yeah, you know, we
Speaker 2: didn't even know how to swim, but we learned to
Speaker 2: swim in the channel by ourselves. So a little bit
Speaker 2: of luck come his way as well. But yeah, when
Speaker 2: I look back and think what he did, you know,
Speaker 2: running the family, running the business, obviously having the dairy farm,
Speaker 2: which is relentless work, you know, morning and night. Not
Speaker 2: only with that, though, he raised us by giving us competitions, geography, competitions, spelling,
Speaker 2: these maths, competitions. He was never too tired to do
Speaker 2: that with us, and I just think that is amazing
Speaker 2: raising ten kids, running a business and being able to
Speaker 2: do that as well. I honestly take my hat off
Speaker 2: to him. And with that as well, he always made
Speaker 2: sure we had really good manners. You know, if you
Speaker 2: meet somebody, shake the hand with them in the eye,
Speaker 2: give them a good, firm handshake. He was never too
Speaker 2: tired to do that. And he is a remarkable man.
Speaker 3: What was his superpower when you think about it, he
Speaker 3: must have some sort of superpower, Like I mean, that's
Speaker 3: something like it looks like sound by the sound of it,
Speaker 3: and obviously from what I saw from the show, and
Speaker 3: I've heard nothing other than what I saw on the show,
Speaker 3: it's like he just jumped.
Speaker 1: Off the cross like he's so good. Well, what was
Speaker 1: his natural superpower?
Speaker 3: Was his endurance or was it his his ability to communicate?
Speaker 3: Or was it his ability to like a certain resilience
Speaker 3: or stamina that he had.
Speaker 2: I think probably a certain resilience and his capability to
Speaker 2: just handle hard times. Like obviously I used to think
Speaker 2: about when I was growing up and I was having
Speaker 2: tough times writing, had a bad fall or my writing
Speaker 2: career wasn't going as good as I'd like it to be,
Speaker 2: or just just down in the dumps. And I would
Speaker 2: think back to that day when they came to the
Speaker 2: door and said my mum had been killed taking the
Speaker 2: kids to school in a car accident, and just think,
Speaker 2: how would anybody get through that, and how he did.
Speaker 2: Would have just said to the kids, you know, we've
Speaker 2: got to stick together and get through it together. And
Speaker 2: that's his mindset. I've lost two sisters since then, and
Speaker 2: same thing. Devastating, and he's absolutely devastated, but he just
Speaker 2: stays so strong. And I think a big part of
Speaker 2: that is his faith. He is very religious, rare Catholic.
Speaker 2: We would always go to church every Sunday growing up,
Speaker 2: all the kids, and you know, we'd be sitting around
Speaker 2: watching TV or having dinner and he'd say, okay, kids,
Speaker 2: we'll say the Rosary, and we'd stop and say the
Speaker 2: Rosary three times all together, and he'd just always talk about,
Speaker 2: you know, his faith, and I think that is what
Speaker 2: got him through losing my mum and then again my
Speaker 2: two sisters that followed, and I think it's it's definitely
Speaker 2: helped me through my career as well, because you know,
Speaker 2: life is tough and having that faith is certainly a
Speaker 2: way of coping. For sure.
Speaker 3: With your older siblings, particularly the female ones, are they
Speaker 3: much more matriarchal to say the younger kids.
Speaker 1: As a result of your moum not being there. Do
Speaker 1: you think do they think they took.
Speaker 3: Up the flag for your dad realizing there was no
Speaker 3: leading woman in the family, so to speak, and that
Speaker 3: they knew that they had to do the work of
Speaker 3: what their mother would have had to do if the
Speaker 3: mother had been around.
Speaker 2: Definitely, they were remarkable, I think, having had the presence
Speaker 2: of her as they were growing up, and from what
Speaker 2: I've been told by Dad, she was an amazing lady.
Speaker 2: She had ten children, she ran the books of the business,
Speaker 2: She cooked and cleaned. Amazing cook They said she was
Speaker 2: Swiss and she cooked a lot of Swiss meals. And
Speaker 2: we had a cow. She'd milk the cow for the kids,
Speaker 2: and then she take the leftover milk into the homeless
Speaker 2: shelter in Ballarat. That just you know, and I don't
Speaker 2: know what spare time, you know, obviously it had a
Speaker 2: million clothes to watch with ten kids, So she sounded
Speaker 2: like a pretty amazing woman and I think, you know,
Speaker 2: my sister's had that role model growing up. And when
Speaker 2: I remember being sort of four as young as I
Speaker 2: can remember, sort of four or five, and my dad
Speaker 2: always used to talk about her. I think he wanted
Speaker 2: me to feel that presence of her and used to
Speaker 2: tell me every day, you know, how much he loved her,
Speaker 2: and how much she missed her, and how much she
Speaker 2: wished he told her more that he loved her. And
Speaker 2: then I think, yeah, my sisters saw the need to
Speaker 2: be nurturing to us younger kids, and especially probably the
Speaker 2: second oldest Trees, she really took the role of being
Speaker 2: the mother. She made sure we always had a meal
Speaker 2: on the table. She was full time race riding at
Speaker 2: the time, herself only a kid at the same time,
Speaker 2: and just remarkable. And I remember sort of being in
Speaker 2: younger primary school years and Mother's Day at school, I'd
Speaker 2: buy her a Mother's Day gift. I didn't feel like
Speaker 2: I didn't have a mom to buy a gift for.
Speaker 2: It was just I'd buy one for Trees. So, you know,
Speaker 2: I feel so lucky to have had their presence in
Speaker 2: our lives because their mothers now and get to watch that,
Speaker 2: and yeah, just remarkable. To think how they took that
Speaker 2: role on it at such a young age.
Speaker 3: Do those things in turn and have those things in turn,
Speaker 3: like your dad's resilience and these sort of mental toughness
Speaker 3: and your sister's ability to nurture the whole family? Do
Speaker 3: those Do you think those things stood by? Because you know,
Speaker 3: often parents tell kids, you've got to be this, and
Speaker 3: you can't do that, and.
Speaker 1: You've got to do that.
Speaker 3: But actually kids watch what their parents are doing, and
Speaker 3: or older brothers sisters for that matter too, and they
Speaker 3: tend to do what they see as opposed to what
Speaker 3: they're here. And do you reckon in some of those
Speaker 3: darker times that you've had, like when you've been injured,
Speaker 3: et cetera, when you're being rejected, or when you're trying
Speaker 3: to get on a group one that those observations stood
Speaker 3: by And was it conscious? Did you consciously think of that?
Speaker 3: My dad's done pretty tough. I owe it to him
Speaker 3: up here.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think I couldn't remember from as young as
Speaker 2: seven years old being out in the stables cleaning, you know,
Speaker 2: doing learning the chores and cleaning the boxes and just
Speaker 2: watching trees for example. Of all of them, she stood
Speaker 2: out to me the most because she was so no fuss.
Speaker 2: She'd get in there, she'd get the boxes done so
Speaker 2: quickly and efficiently. And I remember at that age, look,
Speaker 2: you know, thinking that is just amazing.
Speaker 1: He was cleaning the crab out basically, yeah, but quick.
Speaker 2: No fuss, just get in there, get it done. And
Speaker 2: I honestly remember thinking at the time, you know, how good.
Speaker 2: And that was my role model. So I always thank
Speaker 2: you her for a lot of my success and my
Speaker 2: other brothers and sisters, because especially my sisters, because you know,
Speaker 2: it was tough. It was much tougher for them riding
Speaker 2: back sort of ten years before I started, or even
Speaker 2: fifteen years before I started, because there wasn't many of them.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I didn't have a jockey's room to go into
Speaker 2: that there was like a trailer or something for them
Speaker 2: to change and prepare for their race. But they were
Speaker 2: just no fuss. They get out there, they go to
Speaker 2: the races. They didn't see themselves, you know, as a
Speaker 2: female jockey, and not poor me. Sometimes I get a
Speaker 2: bit frustrated because my brother Patrick would pinch their rights
Speaker 2: and they'd be a fair bit of swearing and carrying
Speaker 2: on at home. But you know, I think their presence
Speaker 2: and you know, watching and learning from them was just
Speaker 2: the best start I could have had to going into
Speaker 2: a career that is, you know, or was very very
Speaker 2: male dominated.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't mean to be condescending when I
Speaker 3: look back at when I look at what I know
Speaker 3: of your history and your life, it's just full of challenges,
Speaker 3: but more importantly full of conquering challenges, like just one
Speaker 3: half the other. So mom passed away when you're a
Speaker 3: young baby, not just pastway tragic accident, you're one of
Speaker 3: ten kids, that itself is a challenge. Then you've got
Speaker 3: you know, you observe your father dealing with that challenge,
Speaker 3: and that itself would have been a challenge because you
Speaker 3: probably feel guilty on occasions that had to do things
Speaker 3: that you know wouldn't ordinarily be wouldn't be asked of
Speaker 3: a father. While some might think is a challenge you had, Stevie,
Speaker 3: probably not a challenge because my.
Speaker 1: Interaction with.
Speaker 3: Boys and or girls or got men who have had
Speaker 3: who have had who have Down syndrome, they just tend
Speaker 3: to be some of the most loving, simple people get
Speaker 3: life really simple.
Speaker 1: They get it.
Speaker 3: They're generally speaking, they are the best to deal with.
Speaker 3: I have a great empathy for those children and adults
Speaker 3: in that situation, but some would see that as another challenge.
Speaker 1: But somehow you managed to conquer it.
Speaker 3: Out of all your brothers and sisters, it seems like
Speaker 3: you've got the closest relationship. Do you think that's because
Speaker 3: you were closest in age or just you two just
Speaker 3: hit it off.
Speaker 2: Definitely because we were close in age with little kids.
Speaker 2: Wasn't even Stevie Michelle. It's just like, has anyone seen
Speaker 2: the little kids? If one was somewhere, the other little
Speaker 2: girl's there, Yeah, little girl. So we just were together
Speaker 2: all the time, basically more so because the kids that
Speaker 2: were a bit older than us said, oh you sare
Speaker 2: any and go you know we did. We were too
Speaker 2: little to play their games with them, so it was
Speaker 2: just Stevie and I and obviously I didn't know the difference,
Speaker 2: so it was nothing for me. And to be honest,
Speaker 2: like you spoke about with down syndrome, so're the most beautiful,
Speaker 2: loving people in the world. And how lucky was I
Speaker 2: to grow up with Stevie and the empathy and everything
Speaker 2: he has. For example, this is what happens in a
Speaker 2: big family and where dad let us go a bit.
Speaker 2: Our brother bought us boxing goals for Christmas because we
Speaker 2: thought it would be funny if he put it up
Speaker 2: them on us to fight. Yep. I was five, Stevie
Speaker 2: was seven. And then they made a ring with all
Speaker 2: the kids because it was enough to make it a
Speaker 2: big enough ring for us, and had us fighting. And
Speaker 2: Steve didn't want to hit me because he just didn't
Speaker 2: want to, like it's not in his nature. And I
Speaker 2: get Steve getto and I'm like running around trying to
Speaker 2: poke one into him, and he got me connected and
Speaker 2: I started crying. Obviously he hurt me, and he felt
Speaker 2: that bad. I remember looking up at his face and
Speaker 2: he just devastated that he got me. Yeah, just an
Speaker 2: amazing person to share my life and grow up with.
Speaker 2: And you know, we've played you know, games together and
Speaker 2: we just had the best fun. And sometimes we'd be
Speaker 2: playing a game of cards and I might give him
Speaker 2: one card to start with and I'd have the pack
Speaker 2: because I knew that I was able to learn faster,
Speaker 2: but he caught up eventually. Now we play one on
Speaker 2: one fair even game and he's just remarkable and what
Speaker 2: I've been able to watch him face his challenges and
Speaker 2: grow and overcome things is just unbelievable, and even now
Speaker 2: like he's forty forty two and just continues to grow,
Speaker 2: get smarter. He's hilarious, He's so funny, quick witted, knows
Speaker 2: you know the right moments to say things. He can
Speaker 2: read people a lot better than a lot of people
Speaker 2: without a challenge have. So honestly, we're just so lucky
Speaker 2: to have him in our lives, especially me being so
Speaker 2: close with him. We own our farms together now, and
Speaker 2: he's just a pleasure and a privilege to be around
Speaker 2: and to have.
Speaker 3: And I hope you don't mind me just ask a
Speaker 3: couple of questions, because I'm actually fascinated by Stevie, And
Speaker 3: you know, like Stevie, you fascinating me. And you're right.
Speaker 3: I mean, I only know him from from the movie.
Speaker 3: I don't know him. But do you think that I know,
Speaker 3: I don't want to get too weird about God and
Speaker 3: stuff like that and your mom and your late mother,
Speaker 3: but do you think that to some extent, those people
Speaker 3: like Stevie who have such a good heart and have
Speaker 3: are so inspirational. I actually put there for a reason
Speaker 3: for you to think to yourself, get on with it
Speaker 3: and what you learn from those people if someone like Stevie,
Speaker 3: Like it seems to me that someone like Stevie can
Speaker 3: teach us all a lot of stuff, is it? Do
Speaker 3: you ever thank your mother for that outcome?
Speaker 2: I just think, like we say many times, he's a
Speaker 2: blessing and honestly, like in a way, a miracle to
Speaker 2: have in our lives. He's now home with Dad. Dad's
Speaker 2: eighty nine. I had a family, a house full of
Speaker 2: ten kids. Imagine, you know, being left alone and lonely.
Speaker 2: He has Stevie there living with him. They get on
Speaker 2: unbelievably well. Dad teases Stevie like you wouldn't believe. I
Speaker 2: know he's down syndrome, but we've never treated him like
Speaker 2: he's down syndrome. And I think that's that's really been
Speaker 2: the making of him and something I think that should
Speaker 2: be maybe more documented, because he's so capable and can
Speaker 2: handle so much responsibility because he's been given that chance
Speaker 2: in life. And they, yeah, they just have the best time.
Speaker 2: So for how the circumstances have unfolded with Mom pass
Speaker 2: away and Dad obviously being left all the kids have
Speaker 2: left home to now have him there with him is
Speaker 2: unbelievable and again like to have him there on the
Speaker 2: day of the Melbourne Cup strapping Prince of hens Ouce.
Speaker 2: You know, to imagine that could have ever possibly happened,
Speaker 2: you would give yourself tim into one chance growing up
Speaker 2: or even more than that. So it is in a
Speaker 2: way a bit of a blessing.
Speaker 1: And a miracle and fairy tale.
Speaker 2: Yeah it is. It's a fairy tale.
Speaker 3: I mean when I think of your dad at eighty nine,
Speaker 3: and my father got to eighty nine, and you know
Speaker 3: that eighty nine, they're a little frail and you know,
Speaker 3: you know there's a lot that needs to be done
Speaker 3: for them.
Speaker 1: They need a lot of assistance at that stage. And
Speaker 1: also they feel a bit.
Speaker 3: Mentally frail because you know it's getting on and you
Speaker 3: know they're not as strong as they were before. And
Speaker 3: for the fact that someone like Stevie can be there
Speaker 3: as his companion, so to call, is he still doing strapping? Like?
Speaker 1: Is he still strapping horses? Stevie?
Speaker 2: He hasn't in the last few years. He needs a
Speaker 2: knee operation, so he's not at the moment. He's still can,
Speaker 2: but he's just a bit slower. But even that in
Speaker 2: itself is amazing because the horses sense it and they
Speaker 2: just slowed down for him. And it's funny story. I
Speaker 2: think it was last year him and I took one
Speaker 2: of our horses to the races at Renney Valley and
Speaker 2: I laid it in with him, thinking, I'll just see
Speaker 2: if it's going to be too strong, because earlier in
Speaker 2: the day it was charging around and I was struggling
Speaker 2: to keep up, and I thought it might be a
Speaker 2: bit quick for him, and took it into the mounting
Speaker 2: under said if you need a hand, I'll just be
Speaker 2: in the middle watching it, and he's like you a rose.
Speaker 2: The horse was like twenty thirty meters behind the one
Speaker 2: in front of it slowed down that much just so
Speaker 2: Stevie could comfortably keep up with it and just sense that,
Speaker 2: you know, his you know, challenges. And one of the
Speaker 2: most amazing things about working with you know, the horses,
Speaker 2: the horses, how intuitive they are and how amazing you
Speaker 2: know his connection with them is can.
Speaker 3: I explore that because I don't know, I've never had experience.
Speaker 3: I have a bit of experience. It's in Turnial Park
Speaker 3: when I was younger, like going to the stables there
Speaker 3: and getting somebody to give us a horse and take
Speaker 3: us a tour around ten year old park, et cetera.
Speaker 1: But horses are.
Speaker 3: Like an amazing looking animal, unbelievably athletic. They're big, muscular.
Speaker 3: On one hand, they're really you know, you have a
Speaker 3: great amount of respect for them. But on the other
Speaker 3: they can be a bit scary too because they're so big,
Speaker 3: and you know, you're by no means a titan in
Speaker 3: terms of size. You're a jockey former jockey, and they're
Speaker 3: the opposite. They are titans in the animal kingdom, and
Speaker 3: they can do everything in an athletic sense. How is
Speaker 3: it that you seemed about it and someone like stupid too,
Speaker 3: and probably your brothers and sisters. I don't know much
Speaker 3: about them, but have the ability to sort of have
Speaker 3: command in relation to horses. About is it the fact
Speaker 3: that you have great knowledge of how they think and operate,
Speaker 3: or you have an empathy towards them, whether they have
Speaker 3: an empathy towards you.
Speaker 1: What does that old like? I don't understand it.
Speaker 2: I think it's a whole range of things. Really, we
Speaker 2: were brought up with them, so second nature to be
Speaker 2: around them, even though they are huge animals. As you said,
Speaker 2: But we were taught from a young age that they
Speaker 2: need to respect you. So there's that level of respect
Speaker 2: and then trust, they need to trust you as well.
Speaker 3: And actually, when you said you were taught from a
Speaker 3: young age that they need to respect you, which no
Speaker 3: doubt is what your dad told you. What does that
Speaker 3: mean they need to respect you? Like, is that an
Speaker 3: advice on as to how to approach the.
Speaker 2: Horse, how to handle them? Like if they just think
Speaker 2: they can pull you around, they'll just do that, like
Speaker 2: not not because they're bad animals, it's just because they
Speaker 2: that's you know, you just need to firm that form,
Speaker 2: that connection that they're not going to be able to
Speaker 2: get away with doing whatever they want to want to do.
Speaker 2: And even you know, from a five year old, no
Speaker 2: matter how big they were, they still respect if you
Speaker 2: show them that you're you know, strong enough and you'll
Speaker 2: stand up to them. But they'll sense fear in a
Speaker 2: second that they're unbelievably intuitive, Like obviously dogs are incredibly intuitive,
Speaker 2: but every much, every every bit as much that as them.
Speaker 2: So it's all about that they they and then once
Speaker 2: you've got that, it's about mutual respect and then they
Speaker 2: trust you and once you have their trust. It's the
Speaker 2: most amazing feeling in the world, Like you could ride
Speaker 2: a horse on a piece of cotton when when it,
Speaker 2: you know, responds to you. And that feeling is one
Speaker 2: of the best things about, you know, being a jockey,
Speaker 2: because you need everything to be going your way in
Speaker 2: a race. It's it's a game of inches. It's dangerous
Speaker 2: and pardon parcel of that is having a horse that
Speaker 2: will do what you want to do at you know,
Speaker 2: split second decisions and stuff like that. So it makes
Speaker 2: it a great sport in a way. In that way
Speaker 2: because you're working with an animal and not just any animal,
Speaker 2: you know, six hundred kilo beast And that's part of
Speaker 2: what I love so much about writing, because it's not
Speaker 2: easy and you have to work hard at it and
Speaker 2: one of the most beautiful things about working with the
Speaker 2: animals that we do.
Speaker 3: Do you know, we've just gone through maybe five factors
Speaker 3: or so, you know, at the risk of repeating myself,
Speaker 3: mother passed away at the age of six months, the
Speaker 3: youngest of teen kids. An unbelievable relationship with your down
Speaker 3: syndrome older brother too's older. Becoming a jockey, small, smallish
Speaker 3: person dealing with a massive beast. Every thing I've asked
Speaker 3: you about, most people would see as a challenge, some
Speaker 3: would feel feeling and there's a number of other challenges
Speaker 3: we're going to talk about a moment. Some people would
Speaker 3: feel as on some occasionally the victim. But for some reason,
Speaker 3: every one of them, you've turned into a good thing,
Speaker 3: like it's some sort of blessing. Like everyone, where the
Speaker 3: hell do you get that sort of mindset from? That's
Speaker 3: a mindset game? You're born that way? Or would you
Speaker 3: develop that way? Or did your dad drum it into
Speaker 3: you or did you dream about it? Is it part
Speaker 3: of your faith?
Speaker 1: What is it?
Speaker 2: Not sure? From a very young age, I was really
Speaker 2: a quiet kid. I think probably being the youngest of
Speaker 2: ten you'll put back into place pretty quickly. So I
Speaker 2: watched and learned and listened a lot, and I think
Speaker 2: that's a big thing. You obviously learn a lot more
Speaker 2: when you're quiet and you're listening. And I had a
Speaker 2: lot of brothers and sisters wanting to teach me too,
Speaker 2: like I was a little one, and they just wanted
Speaker 2: to help where they could. And I really am blessed
Speaker 2: to have had the upbringing that I've had because of that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think just you know, just sitting back
Speaker 2: watching it all, also believing I could do it. I
Speaker 2: think that was one of the biggest things. There's one
Speaker 2: line that I've said a few times about my dad
Speaker 2: and that he used to walk around the house saying,
Speaker 2: just daily, the girls are as good as the boys,
Speaker 2: they just need the opportunities. And you know, he was
Speaker 2: just saying it because my older sisters are right and
Speaker 2: they won't get in the riots. He thought sometimes they should,
Speaker 2: and he just would say it off the cuff, not thinking,
Speaker 2: you know, I would listen or take me so random. Yeah, ye,
Speaker 2: and yeah, I just grew up listening to those words, thinking, well,
Speaker 2: that sounds pretty good to me, sounds pretty right, so exactly,
Speaker 2: and I grew up thinking, you know, why couldn't I be,
Speaker 2: you know, as good as the boys. I work hard,
Speaker 2: I've grown up with all my life, watched my older
Speaker 2: sisters who did very well and just needed the opportunities
Speaker 2: to prove that. And I think that, you know, simple
Speaker 2: line of that as a young kid just embedded into
Speaker 2: my brain and gave me the confidence to believe in myself.
Speaker 3: So you're saying to me, he didn't sit you down
Speaker 3: and say to you, you can be as good as anybody,
Speaker 3: or you know you can if you get the opportunity,
Speaker 3: you can be as good as the boys or any boy.
Speaker 3: But you just sort of randomly hurt it like as
Speaker 3: part of his let's call it his pattern. You know
Speaker 3: that the way he spoke, and you obviously heard it
Speaker 3: a lot, and then there's something about your belief system
Speaker 3: and so you believed him. What is it that has
Speaker 3: gets a young kid? What do you think in your
Speaker 3: case at least, is that for you as a young child,
Speaker 3: believed in your dad Because you know, some times you
Speaker 3: tell kids.
Speaker 1: Things, you know, I said, we are four kids.
Speaker 3: I mean, they don't they say, yeah right, dad, Especially
Speaker 3: these days, they don't believe everything I say. You know,
Speaker 3: they believe in everything I say, particularly these days they
Speaker 3: are older. But when even when they were kids, and
Speaker 3: in fact, some personalities out of my son's would go
Speaker 3: the opposite direction no matter what I said, but I
Speaker 3: tended to say it to them as opposed to just
Speaker 3: sort of randomly saying it. What is it about you
Speaker 3: that allowed you to believe that what your dad said
Speaker 3: was correct?
Speaker 1: Because that's the biggest challenge that you've overcome.
Speaker 2: I think he wasn't, like you said, he wasn't saying
Speaker 2: it directly to me or any of us. And he
Speaker 2: probably even didn't even know I was listening, because we
Speaker 2: was busy.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: It was an noisy household. There was always fights and
Speaker 2: you know, kids everywhere. So if I asked him, yeah,
Speaker 2: I doesn't even know I tell that story because and
Speaker 2: if I asked him that, he probably wouldn't even nearly
Speaker 2: remember or think. You know, I was sitting there like, oh, yeah, right,
Speaker 2: that sounds pretty right, and yeah, probably just that fact.
Speaker 2: And you know, like I said, it was a busy household.
Speaker 2: Kids were coming and going all the time. There's cars
Speaker 2: everywhere in the front yard, race bags everywhere, saddles and
Speaker 2: stuff like it. It's hard to even explain, to imagine.
Speaker 2: The movie couldn't depict how crazy it really was, even
Speaker 2: though they tried. So, yeah, just in that madhouse, and
Speaker 2: you know, kids are coming home from the races. How'd
Speaker 2: you go today? You don't know? Good got taken off
Speaker 2: this one? So we were hearing all of those I
Speaker 2: was hearing all of those things, you know, of just
Speaker 2: every day working life. And you know, it wasn't pretend
Speaker 2: everything was you know, survival and you know, a real
Speaker 2: life job, and it's a tough job. You've got people
Speaker 2: putting a lot of money into their horses, people gambling
Speaker 2: on them, people yelling out over the fence at them,
Speaker 2: you know, giving them grief or whatever. So I think
Speaker 2: it was just a way of him supporting my older sisters,
Speaker 2: you know, to you know, you can be as good
Speaker 2: as the guys. You just need the opportunities and hopefully
Speaker 2: one will come their way. And he also trained a
Speaker 2: number of horses. I think he had around twenty five
Speaker 2: and shared them as best he could between them all
Speaker 2: as well. So he just needed a good horse to
Speaker 2: give them that. And one story that blows me away
Speaker 2: is my older sister Tree, So I spoke about she
Speaker 2: was fourteen when she started racing, which I started at fifteen,
Speaker 2: and I was such a baby. I thought I was ready.
Speaker 2: And you get thrown into the world of racing and
Speaker 2: you're inner field on this six hundred killer, out of
Speaker 2: control because you're still getting stronger, getting pushed around from
Speaker 2: pillar to post by the older job and I remember
Speaker 2: thinking stuff, Oh my god, I didn't think this. I
Speaker 2: wasn't going to be prepared because I've watched so many races.
Speaker 2: She rode as a fourteen year old, and she was
Speaker 2: riding for six months and dad had a horse going
Speaker 2: for the Adelaide Cut, which is a two mile race
Speaker 2: Group one at that point, which is top level, and
Speaker 2: he needed a rider at forty seven kilos and he
Speaker 2: was struggling to find somebody, and so he thought, I'll
Speaker 2: put trees on. So by this stage she was fourteen
Speaker 2: and a half years old've been riding six months going
Speaker 2: into a two mile race on a stallion, which is
Speaker 2: even bigger and stronger. To me, that blows me away
Speaker 2: that you know she was able to do that, And
Speaker 2: I asked her about it, she says, I was all right,
Speaker 2: she just just went out there and did it. So
Speaker 2: that was upbringing I had watching, you know, those those
Speaker 2: sort of things and wouldn't be heard of today. I
Speaker 2: think the younger ship can start riding at sixteen. So
Speaker 2: just remarkable.
Speaker 1: You just said just as it was forty seven and
Speaker 1: a half kilos.
Speaker 2: I think you said had forty seven, so she would
Speaker 2: have been around forty five forty.
Speaker 1: Five killows and just just on that.
Speaker 3: Just so we get a bit of an insight into
Speaker 3: a jockey's life and I'd like to actually cover off,
Speaker 3: you know, the training regimes, et cetera, in terms of
Speaker 3: time and all that sort of stuff and the competition
Speaker 3: around it. But just in terms of being forty five kilos,
Speaker 3: even a.
Speaker 1: Diminutive woman.
Speaker 3: Would struggle at forty four to get to forty five kilos.
Speaker 3: What does it actually mean like in terms of how
Speaker 3: you lead your life. Maybe for the week before the
Speaker 3: race and maybe maybe and I don't know, do you
Speaker 3: need to train at do you need to take the
Speaker 3: horse for training around the.
Speaker 1: Paddock at forty five as well?
Speaker 3: Or or the it' say okay for you to be
Speaker 3: much heavier before you lose weight, And what's the weight
Speaker 3: loss program look like?
Speaker 1: How intense and hectic?
Speaker 2: So for her, she was fourteen, so she was really light.
Speaker 2: For example, when I started racing, was forty seven at fifteen,
Speaker 2: so sort of the build of our family and at
Speaker 2: that age is still growing and you know she might
Speaker 2: be fifty fifty five now for kill those still small. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we're still small people. But as you get older and
Speaker 2: you're mature and you get to your full size, that's
Speaker 2: when the challenge comes to maintaining weight and being at
Speaker 2: the right weight on the day. That can be a
Speaker 2: whole range of challenges, and people do it in different
Speaker 2: ways to suit themselves, suit their bodies the best way
Speaker 2: that they're going to perform on the day. You have
Speaker 2: to sort of work that out along the way. One
Speaker 2: thing might work for somebody. Yeah, one thing might work
Speaker 2: for somebody not another. So yeah, it all just depends
Speaker 2: on the individual. But you're watching your learn things and
Speaker 2: you try if that works, that works, If it doesn't,
Speaker 2: try something else.
Speaker 3: Did you ever do anything that sort of resulted in
Speaker 3: you being not ready to write as a result of
Speaker 3: maybe pulling the punt in the punch, pulling the wrong
Speaker 3: rain on your own weight loss, So you know, like
Speaker 3: if you're not experiencing this sort of stuff and for
Speaker 3: some reason you decided, well, I'm just not going to
Speaker 3: drink any water for two days. And by the way,
Speaker 3: that top of weed stuff does happen in other sports,
Speaker 3: but it affects your brain. You thought by process is
Speaker 3: your strength, your ability to respond, your time to respond,
Speaker 3: which all those things are critical in what you were doing.
Speaker 1: Did you ever stuff it up?
Speaker 2: One time that I can recall is I had my
Speaker 2: first ride in the Corfield Cup at fifty kilos. I
Speaker 2: think I was twenty four at the time, and the
Speaker 2: fifty kilos I hadn't ridden for six years in the
Speaker 2: lead up to it, but it was one of my
Speaker 2: biggest opportunities to ride in a race like that. That
Speaker 2: then went on to race in the Melbourne Cup, so
Speaker 2: I definitely wasn't saying no, but getting to that was
Speaker 2: just one of the toughest things I've had to go through.
Speaker 2: I think the last half a kilo on the day
Speaker 2: took me seven hours to get off. It just wouldn't
Speaker 2: come off my body. Eventually got to the weight and
Speaker 2: rode the horse. She ran well, She ran top eight,
Speaker 2: which was really good. And then the next week I
Speaker 2: was riding. It was for champion trainer Buck Cummings, and
Speaker 2: you know, it was an unbelievable opportunity to ride for
Speaker 2: such a trainer of his caliber. And I was riding
Speaker 2: again for him the next week in the Mini Valley
Speaker 2: Cup and it had fifty one kilos and I thought
Speaker 2: that should be right. I've just ridden fifty should be
Speaker 2: piece of Kate get into fifty one. Anyway, the morning
Speaker 2: of the race, I had, I think a kilo to
Speaker 2: lose and I thought that was in range I usually
Speaker 2: could lose up to a killer and a half if
Speaker 2: I had to anyway, my body would not let go.
Speaker 2: I could not lose the weight, and I was running
Speaker 2: out of time. Ended up having to make my way
Speaker 2: to the track and I rang the foreman at the time,
Speaker 2: Redge Fleming, and I said, Redge, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: be able to make the weight. I don't even think
Speaker 2: I can be half over. I think I'm going to
Speaker 2: be a killer over. And he said, oh, but it's
Speaker 2: not going to be happy. We might have to try
Speaker 2: and find a replacement. But if there's not a replacement,
Speaker 2: you obviously have to ride it. But anyway got there,
Speaker 2: no one could ride the horse, so I wrote it
Speaker 2: a kill over. She ran third, she ran really well.
Speaker 2: I don't think it effective where she because she was
Speaker 2: beaten too far for a second. But I did lose
Speaker 2: the ride, I know the next start, but was then
Speaker 2: lucky enough to go on and ride the same horse
Speaker 2: for bart in the Melbourne Cup from the Corfield Cup
Speaker 2: at fifty and a half. But I had ten days
Speaker 2: then to try to get back down to that weight.
Speaker 2: So that's the whole thing about learning your body. I
Speaker 2: didn't realize because I'd done it so tough to get
Speaker 2: to the fifty my body didn't want to let go
Speaker 2: to get to fifty one the next week. So just
Speaker 2: things like that. A Yeah, crazy that it can make
Speaker 2: such a difference.
Speaker 1: And does it affect you sleep?
Speaker 2: You're exhausted, has a jockie, You're up at three three
Speaker 2: point thirty, you ride, ride all morning, you come home,
Speaker 2: you might get an hour's nap. You might not even
Speaker 2: get that. You go to the race all day, get
Speaker 2: home seven, eight, nine o'clock. So sleeping was the right
Speaker 2: of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you're exhausted, be you've.
Speaker 2: Go to bed hungry, you go to hit bed with
Speaker 2: this stomach churning most of the time.
Speaker 3: Do you feel as though sometimes whilst you choose, you
Speaker 3: choose at life everything to sort. Wow, I don't need
Speaker 3: permanent damage to myself from living that life during that
Speaker 3: sort of critical period of growth, growing, et cetera. Especially
Speaker 3: I shouldn't say it, but I'm going to say especially
Speaker 3: for a woman, because there's lots of other things going
Speaker 3: on for a female at the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I think definitely in some ways it's you know,
Speaker 2: it's tough. You're starving yourself sometimes it's healthier than eating
Speaker 2: bad things though. That's true, So it's probably the extreme
Speaker 2: way of looking after yourself. But you're healthy. You've got
Speaker 2: to be healthy to perform it. You're an athlete, you know,
Speaker 2: like you said before, you've got to be thinking split
Speaker 2: second decisions, decisions. You've got to be sharp, you've got
Speaker 2: to be alert, you've got to be strong. You're writing
Speaker 2: a six hundred killer animal, you're in a race. You've
Speaker 2: got to be agile. Everything has to work together. So
Speaker 2: whilst you know it could be seen as unhealthy in
Speaker 2: a way, I think it probably is not the worst
Speaker 2: way of living. But as a female, it can affect
Speaker 2: your cycle just because you're underweight. I haven't had any kids,
Speaker 2: but my sisters have had no trouble having kids and
Speaker 2: they live the same sort of similar life. And yeah,
Speaker 2: hopefully it's not going to be any effect on me.
Speaker 2: But yeah, in a way, I think overeating and eating
Speaker 2: bad foods is more unhealthy and going up partying than
Speaker 2: probably the life we were living.
Speaker 3: It's a good way to look at it. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's not the way I was thinking, but it's a
Speaker 3: good way to look at it. As typical from just
Speaker 3: this half hour conversation. So far, you look at everything
Speaker 3: from the bright side. You're optimistic about everything. I often
Speaker 3: want to know when you're sitting there ready to the
Speaker 3: race about to start and you're getting ready, are you
Speaker 3: excited or nervous or shitting yourself?
Speaker 1: What was going on?
Speaker 2: You know? Oh my god, I could tell you a
Speaker 2: whole range of feelings. The amount of thought you can
Speaker 2: have interest many times amazing, all of them exactly. So
Speaker 2: learning to deal with nerves was one of the biggest
Speaker 2: things that I found from a young age because I
Speaker 2: wanted it so bad. I tribe my whole life to
Speaker 2: be jockey and the best I could be. And finally
Speaker 2: you get opportunities and good ones and good races, your
Speaker 2: horses favorite. You're like, right, and you know nerves is
Speaker 2: going to, you know, get in the way of your thinking.
Speaker 2: You haven't got time to be nervous and have that
Speaker 2: cloud your judgment. In a race, You've got a second,
Speaker 2: split second to make a decision, sometimes quarter of a second.
Speaker 2: Should you take that run? Should you wait? So I
Speaker 2: knew from a young age had to conquer it because
Speaker 2: it was going to kill my game. And I love
Speaker 2: the tactical side of writing. It's one of my favorite things. Exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So clear thinking is basically one of the most important things.
Speaker 2: So behind the barriers, I used to get so nervous.
Speaker 2: Just deep breaths, think like, just slow down your breathing, relax.
Speaker 2: Whatever happens happens. If it's unlucky, if you don't get
Speaker 2: the run you want to have, you'll be okay after
Speaker 2: the race. Don't worry about it because worrying is not
Speaker 2: going to make you ride the horse, while it's going
Speaker 2: to make your stuff it up. So I years and
Speaker 2: years of practicing that and learning to just calm your
Speaker 2: nerves and not only that, your horse can feel it
Speaker 2: if you're nervous through your legs are that's sensitive, they
Speaker 2: can they can tell if you're a bit on edge. Wow,
Speaker 2: really exactly. Yeah, it's everything, And that's what I was
Speaker 2: trying to explain to you about racing. It's so there's
Speaker 2: so much involved that makes it so amazing and fun.
Speaker 2: So that was one of the biggest things to learn
Speaker 2: and to deal with. The other thing is fear, because
Speaker 2: it is dangerous. So here in the barriers. I think
Speaker 2: I had a bit of PTSD probably through my life
Speaker 2: from having so many bad injuries, and even though I
Speaker 2: have faith, you can't help but think you know what's
Speaker 2: going to go what could go wrong? When exactly when
Speaker 2: things have gone wrong, So that that was one thing
Speaker 2: that my faith come into it. I'd say a little prayer,
Speaker 2: say to mom, oh, wow, I had an older brother
Speaker 2: that passed away when he was three days so called Michael,
Speaker 2: who I was named after. I was born on his birthday,
Speaker 2: so she'll probably so I'd say a little friend of
Speaker 2: Mum and to Michael, and to God, you know, keep
Speaker 2: me safe out there. Please have to make the right
Speaker 2: decisions at the right time, and I instantly feel calm.
Speaker 2: So obviously the faith, you know, would help me through
Speaker 2: those times. But yeah, like because there was times having falls.
Speaker 2: One time in particular, this was I've probably been riding
Speaker 2: I think thirteen years, and it was in the barriers,
Speaker 2: had had it at this point, a fractured skull, fractured vertebrates,
Speaker 2: dessicated ankle.
Speaker 1: Not to welst you're on the horse. You'd had already
Speaker 1: previously had that had.
Speaker 2: These hors on from falls. So I was, you know,
Speaker 2: had had a lot go wrong and in the barriers,
Speaker 2: and this I remember it really clearly. Usually I couldn't
Speaker 2: remember the fall because it was knocked out through concussion
Speaker 2: and everything. But this day I remember, and the horse
Speaker 2: was having its first start in the country in Victoria,
Speaker 2: standing up really straight, ready to go, and I was
Speaker 2: I remember thinking himself, what a lovely little horse, three
Speaker 2: year old young horse given pat a thousand meter race,
Speaker 2: So you go to jump fast, get your spot anyway,
Speaker 2: he for some reason, and I've never seen it before
Speaker 2: after but when he went to jump, he didn't move
Speaker 2: his front legs. They just stayed straight and he just
Speaker 2: absolutely face planted. And usually when they stumble, you can
Speaker 2: pull their head up a bit and you've got a
Speaker 2: little bit of reaction time. But because I went to
Speaker 2: pull his head up, he just he catapuled me face
Speaker 2: first into the ground as fast as you could even imagine,
Speaker 2: and I woke up. So I don't even know if
Speaker 2: I woke up or I'll come to it on the
Speaker 2: track and I couldn't move my legs for about thirty seconds,
Speaker 2: and all the barrier attendants are there and the ambulance
Speaker 2: of there with you straight away, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I can't move my legs. I can't move my legs,
Speaker 2: and they they're like you' all right, don't panic, don't panic,
Speaker 2: or like, don't panic. I can't feel my legs and
Speaker 2: I think it was thirty seconds. It felt like five minutes.
Speaker 2: But the feeling came back, and I don't know whether
Speaker 2: it was shocked the spine or what happened, but I
Speaker 2: ended up fracturing five vertebrates and three ribs. So then
Speaker 2: when I came back from that fall, it couldn't help
Speaker 2: to think that, you know, pickure it up when you
Speaker 2: come out of the barriers. You didn't want to affect
Speaker 2: your horse's start because you were worried about it falling
Speaker 2: or stumbling. But it's very hard, you know, human nature
Speaker 2: protect you protect yourself, so it's hard to get over
Speaker 2: those those sort of things. And there were times when
Speaker 2: I went down the line of talking to a sports
Speaker 2: psychologist to help with that, and amazingly, you know, they
Speaker 2: had little tricks that would help me get through that,
Speaker 2: and obviously also having faith and saying a prayer would help.
Speaker 2: And I didn't want to be scared. I didn't want
Speaker 2: to be giving up my passion and what I loved
Speaker 2: because I was worried that something might happen like that.
Speaker 3: Again, is it Is it a matter of in your case,
Speaker 3: you are you love and you you love racing, You
Speaker 3: love horse racing, you love winning. You just love the
Speaker 3: sport generally, it's in your blood that you've been brought
Speaker 3: up with it. It is so powerful, they're pretty much nothing
Speaker 3: is going to stop me from doing. Whether it's fear,
Speaker 3: you know, the danger, the fact that you're female, you
Speaker 3: know the odds are against you even getting the getting
Speaker 3: the ride in the first place, whether you look after
Speaker 3: your weight you've had number of falls. Is that always
Speaker 3: overriding everything else? The fact that I love the sport
Speaker 3: and that's what I want to do. Yeah, so fun,
Speaker 3: so much conviction towards it and it's fun. Is it
Speaker 3: just because it's fun or is this is me I
Speaker 3: define myself Michelle Paint. I am a jockey and I
Speaker 3: win races.
Speaker 2: To be honest, I always thought after writing I could
Speaker 2: go on and do something else, so many things. I
Speaker 2: don't think that's definitive, but it was something that I
Speaker 2: found the passion in and loved, and I think how
Speaker 2: lucky I was to live a life of excitement like that,
Speaker 2: The feeling that you get when you cross the line,
Speaker 2: you know, you've you've really help that horse to achieve
Speaker 2: and win the race, and all the owners, the amount
Speaker 2: of effort the trainers put in, the stuff at home,
Speaker 2: everything that's involved, and to see that, you know, the
Speaker 2: happiness on their faces when you come back in. You
Speaker 2: can't put a price on that. It's it's unbelievable. And
Speaker 2: to have a job where you go to work and
Speaker 2: you're excited and you can't you know, it's so fun
Speaker 2: like it's you know, not a job. You know, even
Speaker 2: though you basically starving yourself and you're exercising off no
Speaker 2: energy because you can't eat much. And sometimes you might
Speaker 2: be lying on the couch and think I cannot be
Speaker 2: bothered to get off and go for a roun. But
Speaker 2: you just got to will yourself and get out there
Speaker 2: because if you don't make the weight or you're not
Speaker 2: fit enough, you don't have a job. So I just
Speaker 2: can't self so lucky to have found, you know, a
Speaker 2: passion that I could be so excited about.
Speaker 1: Happy.
Speaker 3: Part of being successful is actual fitness, like I'm I
Speaker 3: guess we're talking about aerobic fitness. Grip strength is probably
Speaker 3: pretty important. Strengthen your legs to be able to stay
Speaker 3: on the horse. How important is that in terms of
Speaker 3: like your regime during the week.
Speaker 1: And before the race.
Speaker 3: So I'm assuming you're racing on a Saturday. So I
Speaker 3: say the big races coming up in a month, do
Speaker 3: you like a fighter? You sort of say, Okay, I've
Speaker 3: got a month to get ready for this really big race,
Speaker 3: So I'm going to go into a proper environment. Now
Speaker 3: I'm going to do this every single day of the week.
Speaker 3: You know, if you've got to like a rich wal
Speaker 3: you go through for that month, for example, before the
Speaker 3: Melbourne cuple before whatever big event you're going to go in.
Speaker 2: I think if you want to be a jockey and
Speaker 2: achieve at the top level, you've got to dedicate your
Speaker 2: life to it. One thing I learned which I took
Speaker 2: away from my falls was that you have to have
Speaker 2: a balance. From a young age, I was so determined
Speaker 2: to do well. I didn't want to take any holidays.
Speaker 2: I was just wanting to do you know well, and
Speaker 2: not risk having time away that I get forgotten about.
Speaker 2: All the hard work you put in would be go
Speaker 2: to waste. But having the falls, you had no choice.
Speaker 2: You were forced to have that time and I traveled
Speaker 2: got to see the world and realized that there was
Speaker 2: something in that. Then really thought maybe that happened for
Speaker 2: a reason, Maybe it showed me that there's more to
Speaker 2: life than riding and racing every day. And from then
Speaker 2: I sort of tried to take a holiday every winter
Speaker 2: when I could, and basically nearly every winter from that
Speaker 2: went somewhere different in the world and explored and traveled
Speaker 2: and grew in myself a lot of the time on
Speaker 2: my own, because I thought that would be a better
Speaker 2: way to do it. You meet people, you're forced to,
Speaker 2: so it's all about the balance. But then when you're
Speaker 2: in it, you're totally in it. You don't hard. They
Speaker 2: can go out dinner. You know. I didn't get to
Speaker 2: see my friends from school nearly all of my teenage
Speaker 2: years because I was so dedicated to the job. But
Speaker 2: you want to do well, you have to do well,
Speaker 2: and that's getting up early. You've got to do the
Speaker 2: work behind the scenes to get the opportunities to get
Speaker 2: the race rides, to get your fitness up. There's only
Speaker 2: so much fitness you can get from track work because
Speaker 2: it's not like under race pressure. You're not you're obviously
Speaker 2: training the horse, you're holding them. Your positions in the
Speaker 2: same point. But there's no nerves, the dealer adrenaline. There's
Speaker 2: nothing like race fitness. But you can help yourself at
Speaker 2: home by doing I found for me the best way.
Speaker 2: I'm definitely not a very good athlete, so I to
Speaker 2: train harder, lots of high intensity works, sprint work, short
Speaker 2: sharp intervals, just any basic strength work that related to riding.
Speaker 2: You didn't want to be using false muscles, So you
Speaker 2: didn't want to be building muscles that weren't going to
Speaker 2: help your riding.
Speaker 1: Train specific exactly for what your sport is.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and that's like a lot of core strength, obviously,
Speaker 2: a lot of arm strength, chin ups, you know, really
Speaker 2: have to use all your muscles in your body. Really,
Speaker 2: when you're in that riding position and you're holding the horse,
Speaker 2: you're using everything without your Knowjeven so with that, you've
Speaker 2: got to be very agile because you want to be
Speaker 2: a part of the horse. You don't want them to
Speaker 2: even know you're you're on them. You don't want to
Speaker 2: be like you go for a run and you got
Speaker 2: some keys in your pocket, sort of unbalancing your stride
Speaker 2: or whatever. You want to be with them as one,
Speaker 2: so that you can get the best out of them.
Speaker 2: So for me, the best way I found was to
Speaker 2: do the track work that you had to do. Sometimes
Speaker 2: we had to do too much, like for example, some
Speaker 2: days I'd ride twenty horses in the morning and before
Speaker 2: you go to the races. That was an extreme Before
Speaker 2: you go to the races, Yeah, that was an extreme day,
Speaker 2: like one of you know, the toughest usually be five
Speaker 2: to ten or fifteen, and then you might have a
Speaker 2: little workout at home, have a little sauna or a
Speaker 2: spy to lose the weight that you need to lose.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you felt better if you had that anyway, even
Speaker 2: if you didn't have to lose weight, because you your
Speaker 2: body was more prepared. I found it helped me and
Speaker 2: then yeah, off to the races. But as I got
Speaker 2: older and didn't have to ride as much track work
Speaker 2: to get the opportunity to justly more. Post Mulbourne Cup,
Speaker 2: I realized it was easier to have a balance of
Speaker 2: track work, training yourself and then going to the races.
Speaker 2: So one of the toughest things about being female writers
Speaker 2: you had to really work hard behind the scenes. That's
Speaker 2: why I was riding twenty horses the morning to get
Speaker 2: the opportunities, But your bug advice. Time you get to
Speaker 2: the races, you know there's only so much exercise and
Speaker 2: work your body and your muscles can do, especially on
Speaker 2: very limited food. So all those things you just have
Speaker 2: to work out and learn along the way, and you
Speaker 2: know you have to really want it because you can't
Speaker 2: maintain that kind of lifestyle otherwise.
Speaker 3: If you just talk quickly about the Melbourne Cup win
Speaker 3: Princi Penzance, do you remember the first time you saw
Speaker 3: met the principendance met the horse and did you feel
Speaker 3: an immediate empathy towards that animal.
Speaker 2: I'm not even joking. The first time I saw him
Speaker 2: was it a real little country t called Collac. We
Speaker 2: were doing trials. I was coming back from another injury
Speaker 2: and I said to his trainer, Darren was such, that's
Speaker 2: a nice horse. So he was just on the other
Speaker 2: side of the mountain yard and he said, yeah, he's
Speaker 2: really nice. Threat.
Speaker 1: It's a nice horse. Mean, from your point of view.
Speaker 2: An athlete, you look at it, you can see it
Speaker 2: in three seconds. Do that horse move as well? Like
Speaker 2: everything works together. Got a nice big deep girth, which
Speaker 2: means I've got big lungs, big heart, can fit in there.
Speaker 2: Everything's just efficient and you could just tell the way
Speaker 2: he walked, and he was bold. He was really bold
Speaker 2: and wanted to get on means, wanted to get on
Speaker 2: with the job. Like he was bought by a guy
Speaker 2: called John Foot, who bought him because he said he
Speaker 2: walked through He'd run through a brick wall. He was
Speaker 2: that bold kind of horse. He said, yeah, No, he's
Speaker 2: a really nice horse. You can see how it goes.
Speaker 2: So I was trialing him this day. He hadn't had
Speaker 2: a race at this point, and we were later in
Speaker 2: the day and a bit unusual, but the track got
Speaker 2: a bit slippery as the day went on, and we
Speaker 2: were out wider so usually on the course as a canber,
Speaker 2: but because we were out so wide, the campra was
Speaker 2: running down the other way. As we were around in
Speaker 2: the corner with the greasy ground, he slipped and lost
Speaker 2: his balance and I swear I felt my knee and
Speaker 2: he touched the ground because he went down that far.
Speaker 2: But he picked himself back up and he was just
Speaker 2: so athletic and I hadn't come off him, and got
Speaker 2: himself back into stride in a few strides, picked up
Speaker 2: sprinted and galltz the line finished second and I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, what is this horse, because they just
Speaker 2: don't do that, and he said, yeah, he's a nice horse.
Speaker 2: So he kept try to keep with him because I
Speaker 2: thought he was pretty special. You know, you don't come
Speaker 2: across that very often in your career, and I've said
Speaker 2: many times like through my riding career, road seven and
Speaker 2: a half thousand races and probably over thirty thousand horses
Speaker 2: even more in track work and probably five in the
Speaker 2: lifetime gave you that X factor feel. And he did
Speaker 2: that right from the start his very first trial, that
Speaker 2: a road. So he was just a luckable horse, an
Speaker 2: unbelievable athlete, had a will to win, to want to
Speaker 2: do it, sometimes too much, he wanted to overdo it.
Speaker 2: So I think we were a good balance being a
Speaker 2: sort of soft touch with him and kind and you're
Speaker 2: always talking to him and patting him and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was just an unbelievable journey. And to
Speaker 2: think I come across a horse like that and later
Speaker 2: in my career.
Speaker 3: So when you win something as famous in Australia as
Speaker 3: the Melbourne Cup and probably believing globally in the horse
Speaker 3: racing world, what's the deal, like when you is the race,
Speaker 3: when it's over and you know you can see you won.
Speaker 3: Is it a bit of an anti climax because most
Speaker 3: of the thrillers during the race, or do you have
Speaker 3: or is it as big a thrill when they sort
Speaker 3: of announced it you're the winner and you know you won.
Speaker 3: But where's the thrill lie in the race itself and
Speaker 3: winning it actually taking him through to win. Or is
Speaker 3: it when it's all over and it's relief. Where's the
Speaker 3: biggest thrill?
Speaker 2: Honestly, I see right now today and can tell it
Speaker 2: gives me like butterflies in my stomach to think that
Speaker 2: I still have been lucky enough to win a great race.
Speaker 2: It was a dream of mine from a five year old,
Speaker 2: so to think twenty five years later I was able
Speaker 2: to cross that line in front on him, it blows
Speaker 2: me away. So honestly, I can't say the feelings died down.
Speaker 2: It was an absolute well wind from the moment I
Speaker 2: got off, And it's amazing to think that one race
Speaker 2: can change your life like it has. Obviously film being made,
Speaker 2: second book that I've written, been part of writing with
Speaker 2: the writer, and yeah, just incredible. Like honestly, I can't
Speaker 2: believe it.
Speaker 1: Did it change a world much?
Speaker 3: I mean apart from all the opportunities obviously obviously get
Speaker 3: apart from the factor you you now stand for something
Speaker 3: in relation to horse racing, with women involved in racing,
Speaker 3: particularly as jockeys.
Speaker 1: But how did it defect your life? Was it? Apart
Speaker 1: from the obvious positives?
Speaker 3: And many negatives come with that sort of stuff, like
Speaker 3: being in the limelight, how do you feel about that.
Speaker 2: I've sort of been prepared for the limelight through my career,
Speaker 2: just with earlier successes, so I was pretty okay with that.
Speaker 2: As in media, Yeah, with media, sort of being stopped
Speaker 2: on the street become something I struggled with because I'm
Speaker 2: a pretty private person. You know, as a jockey, you're
Speaker 2: self employed, you really focused, busy at your job, keeps
Speaker 2: yourself pretty quiet because usually you're hungry, so you don't
Speaker 2: have much conversation. It's taken away your personality. So I
Speaker 2: found it really tough, challenging. But the way it looks
Speaker 2: at it is you've got to take the good with
Speaker 2: it bad. People were lovely everywhere when you know, congratulations
Speaker 2: are so exciting, so inspired by When I couldn't believe
Speaker 2: it you know, the amount of good feeling that I
Speaker 2: got from it and people's reactions. So yeah, it was tough,
Speaker 2: but like you said, like I said, sorry, people were
Speaker 2: amazing and just blew me away. But I got tired also,
Speaker 2: so I just had to go home and rest a
Speaker 2: lot of the time because it was just a bit
Speaker 2: overwhelming to take on.
Speaker 3: You sort of like have to perform a little bit
Speaker 3: when you do something really good and everybody sort of
Speaker 3: wants to acknowledge it and hold up in a bit
Speaker 3: of a pedestal.
Speaker 2: That was one thing. Sorry. The people used to be
Speaker 2: so excited when they met me, and I feel like
Speaker 2: I let them down because I was like, thanks very much,
Speaker 2: but I couldn't be impressive right then and there. So
Speaker 2: I found it quite tough at the time that I
Speaker 2: was letting them down. They're like, oh my god, but
Speaker 2: what you did was so excited and again I'd say
Speaker 2: thank you very much, and they'd say it again sometimes
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I can't say anything more than thanks
Speaker 2: very much. Like I felt the pressure to live up
Speaker 2: to their excitement that that was really draining and tough.
Speaker 3: Is that because you're sort of a basically a very
Speaker 3: generous person I'm not sure do you feel do you
Speaker 3: think generosity is an important thing?
Speaker 2: Obviously my life's been made great from the generosity of
Speaker 2: my older brothers and sisters and people through my life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, like when and then you can
Speaker 3: only show gratitude once or twice, because otherwise, if someone's
Speaker 3: saying to you, how well done you've done, and you
Speaker 3: feel like you want to show them gratitude. But after
Speaker 3: your show once, if you're probably trying to show it
Speaker 3: a second time, you started to feel like you're faking it.
Speaker 2: Well you I don't know what else they wanted me
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 1: You can't say too many times? If can we just
Speaker 1: talk about your book?
Speaker 3: Obviously there's the Netflix show which I've watched and it's
Speaker 3: a great show to watch, worth watching. But the book
Speaker 3: right on, what made you feel as though that you
Speaker 3: should publish a new book?
Speaker 2: I think, like you said, I have a very positive,
Speaker 2: optimistic attitude and if how I got through some of
Speaker 2: my falls and tragedies could help other people, even if
Speaker 2: it's just one person, it was well worth the effort
Speaker 2: of writing the book for that's the main reason. So,
Speaker 2: you know, lots of people face challenges. Life's tough, and
Speaker 2: I've had many of them and talking about that, Yeah,
Speaker 2: like I said, if the way I coped and overcome
Speaker 2: things in a positive way could help others, And that's
Speaker 2: the main reason.
Speaker 3: Do you feel as though, you know sometimes when when
Speaker 3: I grow up a Catholic too, My min's a rash
Speaker 3: Catholic And there is this sort of concept in the
Speaker 3: Catholic family, I don't in the churches, in the family,
Speaker 3: within your own family, that you should pay forward the
Speaker 3: luck that you've received or the great things that you've
Speaker 3: had the opportunity to experience, and you pay forward, And
Speaker 3: that's sort of like a bit of a gratitude thing.
Speaker 3: One way showing your gratitude is share it, share others
Speaker 3: what you've learned. And it's sort of like a nearly
Speaker 3: like an ethic, a moral obligation from growing up in
Speaker 3: a Catholic family. Do you feel that too, like a
Speaker 3: little bit of an obligation to share with people something
Speaker 3: that might help them improve their lives if they're not
Speaker 3: as lucky as you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, why wouldn't you if you can share
Speaker 2: something that will help others make their life easier.
Speaker 3: Some people don't say that though, surely that a lot
Speaker 3: of people don't think that way. Do you think it's
Speaker 3: got some the way you were brought up and what
Speaker 3: you experience and maybe perhaps part of your faith.
Speaker 2: Definitely, Also like the luck I had in my life,
Speaker 2: and even though you know, I was unlucky to have falls,
Speaker 2: I was so lucky to recover from them and get
Speaker 2: back to doing what I loved. So, you know, probably
Speaker 2: it is a bit of gratitude for that luck and
Speaker 2: luck I had. On the day of the Melbourne Cup,
Speaker 2: in a way, I felt an obligation for being so
Speaker 2: lucky to then you do good with it. If I
Speaker 2: can inspire somebody to to look at their job in
Speaker 2: a different way, to strive to be the best, even
Speaker 2: if they feel like you know, they for some reason
Speaker 2: shouldn't or they can't. You know, why wouldn't you if
Speaker 2: you if you can believe in yourself. Yeah, just so
Speaker 2: many different reasons. And like I said, with my older
Speaker 2: brothers and sisters who helped me and taught me, I
Speaker 2: don't have any little brothers and sisters to help, but
Speaker 2: anybody else, any young apprentices coming through, you know, absolute
Speaker 2: privilege and pleasure to do that.
Speaker 3: Is this Michelle being Thereasa like you know, like paying
Speaker 3: forward the way your older sister showed you and helped
Speaker 3: you out to get to where you've got to and
Speaker 3: as an inspiration I'm talking about motivation. Yeah, definitely, because
Speaker 3: you don't have any younger brothers and sisters, So maybe
Speaker 3: it's an opportunity just sort of because we all repeat
Speaker 3: those good things and unfortunately repeat those bad things that
Speaker 3: happened in our lives.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately we just do. Unfortunately we just do.
Speaker 3: And I'm trust I'm just trying to because you know,
Speaker 3: I'm trying to get to the bottom of why you
Speaker 3: would do this book. Some people do these things out
Speaker 3: of guilt. Some people do these things to make money.
Speaker 3: Some people do these things to stay relevant. You know
Speaker 3: that they might have done something in their past, We've
Speaker 3: made them very famous, and they try to do something
Speaker 3: that's relevant. My gut feelings, that's not not your case.
Speaker 3: But also, you know what I did sort of land
Speaker 3: on was maybe that's that that upbringing obligation.
Speaker 1: We have to.
Speaker 3: Share with others what has helped us. And certainly, I
Speaker 3: mean I've experienced the same thing. So I'm trying to
Speaker 3: work and work out if that's that's your that's your
Speaker 3: mantra right now, right now, to.
Speaker 1: Help others.
Speaker 2: I think definitely, I think why are we here if
Speaker 2: we're not here to help others and to do good
Speaker 2: in life? So if I can use my platform in
Speaker 2: any way to do good and to help others, you know,
Speaker 2: why wouldn't I?
Speaker 3: And are there any particular parts of the book? I
Speaker 3: mean we, I mean I read the sort of praising
Speaker 3: of it. You know, we're talking about overcoming and for one,
Speaker 3: facing tragedy, diversity, and also and triumph triumph something you've got.
Speaker 1: To face into too.
Speaker 3: Well, it's not always perfect, but probably I would have
Speaker 3: added to that overcoming tragedy, diversity, and overcoming triumph too,
Speaker 3: because there's something you need to overcome. It doesn't define
Speaker 3: you because it's only there for a second.
Speaker 1: It happens on.
Speaker 3: A particular time, on a particular day, on a particular race.
Speaker 3: That's your big triumph, your biggest triumph, but it's also fleeting.
Speaker 3: It doesn't last the next day, race over the next year,
Speaker 3: someone else is going to win it. So overcoming those
Speaker 3: things is really important. And in writing this and putting
Speaker 3: this book together, is there a sort of a particular
Speaker 3: part of a chapter, perhaps a bit a particular part
Speaker 3: of the book that.
Speaker 1: Means more to you than any other part of the book.
Speaker 2: To be honest, I was really proud of it in
Speaker 2: the end. In the lead up it was something that
Speaker 2: I wasn't really looking forward to, to be honest. I
Speaker 2: love living on my farm in peace.
Speaker 1: That's Notingham Farm, Nottingham Farm, yep.
Speaker 2: But like I said, if it could do good, it
Speaker 2: was worth the effort to put in and to go
Speaker 2: back and to remember something's very traumatic to go back
Speaker 2: over my falls. Obviously my sister passed away recently. That's
Speaker 2: in there. And but one of the one of the chapters,
Speaker 2: which is the first one which I really love, is
Speaker 2: talking through the Melbourne Cup every thought the strategy, because
Speaker 2: as I spoke about earlier, I love the tactical side
Speaker 2: of racing, so many intricate details that can win and
Speaker 2: lose a race, especially race like the Melbourne Cup. So
Speaker 2: for me personally reading books sports people's books, was you
Speaker 2: know their feeling you you know, read an AFL player's
Speaker 2: book running out onto the field of a Grand final.
Speaker 2: You know the feeling of the grass under their feet,
Speaker 2: you know, the crowds growing, just getting the inside insights
Speaker 2: into their mind. So I wanted to give that to
Speaker 2: the readers, and I really pushed to have it as
Speaker 2: the first.
Speaker 1: Chapter because everything you experienced.
Speaker 2: Yeah, everything that's going through your mind, the feeling from
Speaker 2: what I spoke to you about, you know, your muscles
Speaker 2: being relaxed on Prince ap Penzance because he was a
Speaker 2: fiery horse anyway. Didn't need to be feeling me nervous
Speaker 2: on you know, the biggest day of our lives. So
Speaker 2: all of those things like from the mounting yard to
Speaker 2: the barriers to through the race tactically, you know, what
Speaker 2: can happen, what can unfold, like unbring your race, and
Speaker 2: those split second decisions that you've got to make. I
Speaker 2: really did my best to give the reader an in
Speaker 2: depth insight into that. So I'm really proud and I
Speaker 2: hope that readers will love that and take a lot
Speaker 2: away from it, especially young writers that are learning to
Speaker 2: deal with nerves and learning to you know, think about
Speaker 2: how a race is going to unfold. Sometimes really helped
Speaker 2: me to just visualize it. Lie down before you know,
Speaker 2: go to sleep, shut your eyes, visualize it in your brain,
Speaker 2: jumping from the barriers where you want to where you
Speaker 2: want to land, how you want the race to unfold,
Speaker 2: and that for me was a really good way of
Speaker 2: planning and preparing. So visualization exactly so that can help
Speaker 2: you know, another writer or even a sports person you
Speaker 2: know might have a swimmer that will be visualizing their
Speaker 2: stroke in a swimming race or a runa anything. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I was I was really keen to put that in
Speaker 2: the book, and I think we did a good job
Speaker 2: of it so bestly could come up with, so hopefully
Speaker 2: the other readers will really take something away from that.
Speaker 3: And I've only got a sort of a pre copy
Speaker 3: of it, and what we did was we running through
Speaker 3: ai by the way, just because I.
Speaker 1: Didn't get a time to read in it.
Speaker 3: But I have got the summaries of every chapter and
Speaker 3: just on that particular chapter that's rising to the occasion
Speaker 3: you really you relive the twenty fifteen Melbourne Cup win.
Speaker 3: I'm Prince Depanzence And one of the thoughts that I
Speaker 3: had when I was reading the summaries was I wonder
Speaker 3: whether Michelle her senses are so alert, so alert at
Speaker 3: the time. And I'm talking about all senses, probably even
Speaker 3: including the sixth sense, but all sense does all of
Speaker 3: a sudden your sense of smell become really strong, and
Speaker 3: you can smell the horse, you can smell the grass,
Speaker 3: you can smell the environment, you can feel things with
Speaker 3: your fingers. Is that an experience? Is that something that
Speaker 3: would happen to you when you're perhaps when you're walking
Speaker 3: to from getting your horse and walking out before you
Speaker 3: mount the horse. I mean, do your senses become extremely alert?
Speaker 2: I think you've become so focused in the zone. All
Speaker 2: that goes you can just focus on what you need
Speaker 2: to focus on senses through your hands, through your feet,
Speaker 2: and on the horse.
Speaker 1: But that's amazing.
Speaker 3: You are actually able to then put aside all that
Speaker 3: and actually sort of concentrate those senses that you need,
Speaker 3: that you know you need. So let's say we got six,
Speaker 3: you might be able to concentrate those senses into two
Speaker 3: or three that are just needed for that moment for
Speaker 3: the next few.
Speaker 2: Minutes, exactly like the crowd. You can't even hear the crowd.
Speaker 1: The crowd, well I could, Well, that's that's amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, A lot of writers will say they hear the
Speaker 2: aurora of the crowd and jumping barriers, But to me,
Speaker 2: the race is quiet. I could take through every single
Speaker 2: step of that race but I think there's so much
Speaker 2: happening in such a short period of time that you
Speaker 2: have to be able to just zone in on what
Speaker 2: you need to.
Speaker 1: And not waste time on other things.
Speaker 2: Exactly, you don't have time. You might think of a
Speaker 2: hundred things and you're like, sometimes I've even thought to
Speaker 2: myself in a race, how do you even think of
Speaker 2: so many things at one at one time in such
Speaker 2: a crazy environment of a race. But I think to
Speaker 2: do well, you have to be able to do that
Speaker 2: and to zone.
Speaker 1: In on it.
Speaker 3: Did at any stage in the race during that race,
Speaker 3: did you get a surprise of anything you did or
Speaker 3: anything that.
Speaker 1: The horse did well?
Speaker 2: Firstly, he walked down the barriers. We missed a start
Speaker 2: by three lengths and I was, oh God, can we
Speaker 2: stop and do that again? But yeah, that's it. It's
Speaker 2: gone game on. One thing that really surprised me and
Speaker 2: I didn't prepare for, but I was prepared to be
Speaker 2: prepared for anything, and that was at around the fourteen
Speaker 2: hundred twelve hundred meter mark. Our plan was to stay
Speaker 2: on the back of the horse I was following, which
Speaker 2: was Max s Darnamite who finished second in the end,
Speaker 2: but a run presented three off the fence behind the
Speaker 2: second favorite trip to Paris, and at that point I
Speaker 2: wasn't prepared to be making a move so far from home.
Speaker 2: We still had the big sweeping band of Flemington. But
Speaker 2: after watching so many replays of the Malbourne Cup, you
Speaker 2: had to be starting to get into the race. The
Speaker 2: speed had been really slow. He was traveling strong. In
Speaker 2: my mind, that is the that's the past we were so.
Speaker 1: You knew that the pace wasn't quick.
Speaker 2: Pace was very slow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you know that? Watch?
Speaker 2: No, you just learned to judge. So when we got
Speaker 2: to the winning post the first time, after say a
Speaker 2: thousand meters, it was steady already you could feel that.
Speaker 2: Then they stayed it up again and I just remember
Speaker 2: thinking down the backstreet cheezs were going slow.
Speaker 1: That's good because you know he's got more in his tank.
Speaker 2: True, but so does everybody else. Yeah, so you need
Speaker 2: to be getting into a position because the horses up
Speaker 2: front will sprint because they've had it easy. So we're
Speaker 2: back in the field. You need to be creeping. So
Speaker 2: I saw that opportunity, which surprised me because I wasn't
Speaker 2: prepared to do that. But in the in the pre
Speaker 2: race preparation. I knew every horse, every runner, and like
Speaker 2: I said, you only have a split second to make
Speaker 2: these decisions. And I spotted it behind that run behind
Speaker 2: trip to Paris and thought, I'm going to have to
Speaker 2: do that. And I had sort of pretty strict instructions
Speaker 2: to stay on the back of max Elamite, and I
Speaker 2: thought that was a good plan. I thought, I'm not
Speaker 2: going to go with going to change plan here and
Speaker 2: go to plan B, and that would just work it out.
Speaker 3: Is that the thought process that you're going you're actually
Speaker 3: going through that analysis. Whilst you're there holding the horse,
Speaker 3: everyone else is sort of are they yelling and screaming
Speaker 3: all the other jockeys? Can you hear people talking to
Speaker 3: you and say get out of the way.
Speaker 2: Or yeah, yeah, you're at that point. Look down the
Speaker 2: back straight. Usually everyone's in there. Spot's quite silent. No
Speaker 2: one's screaming unless you're trying to bump out or whatever.
Speaker 2: Everyone's trying to get the horse to relax, to breathe,
Speaker 2: you know, conserving all energy, so it's very quiet. You'd
Speaker 2: be surprised to hear the thunder of the hoofs And yeah,
Speaker 2: at that point, I thought well, I'm going to take
Speaker 2: you know, make this decision and you have to go
Speaker 2: with it. You can't you can't tacond guess yourself. Everything
Speaker 2: has to be done positively. And as we were rounding
Speaker 2: the corner and coming past the seven hundred, I was
Speaker 2: absolutely bolting and I thought the sash, she's we're a
Speaker 2: chance here, and don't get it too excited. Part of
Speaker 2: my preparation was, you know, if you're in that position,
Speaker 2: don't get carried away by the occasion and push the
Speaker 2: button too early. You know, take off. A home race
Speaker 2: can be won or lost in a second, and you
Speaker 2: start making contact with other runners, bumping into them, you're
Speaker 2: taking away your energy of a horse. So it was basically
Speaker 2: about composure and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good word, composure.
Speaker 2: Waiting until the time was right, and yeah, it was
Speaker 2: just all I think the preparation in the pre race
Speaker 2: that really helped on the day.
Speaker 3: I'm getting goosebumps thinking about the whole process. I mean,
Speaker 3: like some people have an opportunity run their business, you know,
Speaker 3: over a year, and they can make all those decisions
Speaker 3: over a year. Your business is one race, and you've
Speaker 3: got to make all those decisions and how many minutes.
Speaker 1: We're talking about now from beginning to end three minutes.
Speaker 3: So you're making all these tactical decisions, responding to opportunities,
Speaker 3: responding to threats, responding to risks, responding to the animal,
Speaker 3: your infantry, which is the animal you're writing. Then also
Speaker 3: your competition that's outside of you, it's your brain must
Speaker 3: be going at a million miles an hour. And the
Speaker 3: word you use, composure is really important word. And to
Speaker 3: be frank with you, you.
Speaker 1: Know, part of the.
Speaker 3: Importance of a book like this is teaching or sharing
Speaker 3: people how to maintain their composure under pressure. This is
Speaker 3: the most extreme version of pressure like you can possibly get.
Speaker 1: I mean, forget. We talked earlier about all the challenges
Speaker 1: you got got over and above.
Speaker 3: Which is great, But this is an example in a
Speaker 3: businessman should be reading this thing. This is an example
Speaker 3: of a person exercising composure and judgment under extreme circumstance.
Speaker 3: This is really extreme circumstances and it's a bit of
Speaker 3: like sort of it's nearly like climbing a mountain without
Speaker 3: any harnesses or something like that. And it was sort
Speaker 3: of to me in my mind, I'm aligning it to that,
Speaker 3: which is something I would never attempt and I've never
Speaker 3: really thought about a jockey's job in the way you've
Speaker 3: just described it in terms of that your mindset, your
Speaker 3: mindset at the beginning of the race, making sure that
Speaker 3: you don't you know, not everything's beating it once and
Speaker 3: you just considering those things that you need to have
Speaker 3: for the race, the build up to the race, of
Speaker 3: training programs once you're in the race, of tactics and
Speaker 3: not getting ahead of yourself, remembering what the I'm going
Speaker 3: to say, the coach, but the trainers told you to do,
Speaker 3: and probably the owners and based on But then you've
Speaker 3: got any expos you intuition because if you don't take
Speaker 3: that jump when you and you say, well, no, you
Speaker 3: told me, yeah, well.
Speaker 2: Did you tell you the truth? There were so many
Speaker 2: times previously in races where Darren had told me to
Speaker 2: do stuff and he said, what did you do that
Speaker 2: for us? You told me to do that because we
Speaker 2: don't listen to me you're out there.
Speaker 1: That's my point.
Speaker 2: Yes, I learned. And that's the funny thing about so
Speaker 2: many years and the Malvin Cup come at the right
Speaker 2: time because at the time I thought, I'm not listening
Speaker 2: to you. This time, Darren, following my judgment, and you
Speaker 2: know you're out there doing the job. You've got to
Speaker 2: go to back yourself. If you've done the work and
Speaker 2: you've done the preparation, that's up to you and you've
Speaker 2: got to have confidence in yourself to do that.
Speaker 3: Good only that you sharing all those things for people
Speaker 3: who pick up the book, and by the ways, an audiobook,
Speaker 3: because you've just had a text one.
Speaker 2: It is going to be in an audio audible. We've
Speaker 2: got Rachel Griffiths has put a hand up to read it.
Speaker 1: Which is why do it? I did one. I said
Speaker 1: it is the greatest pain in the neck of all
Speaker 1: times I had to do. I did a period about it.
Speaker 3: Takes a long time. It's really difficult to do because
Speaker 3: you're in a little booth. She's going to do it
Speaker 3: for it, she is. That's fantastic.
Speaker 2: I unbelieve. I'm so grateful to her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's great because because a lot of people like
Speaker 3: to listen to these things these days as opposed to
Speaker 3: sort of sit down and read stuff and can I
Speaker 3: just go back to Nottingham Farm.
Speaker 1: So how's life as a trainer?
Speaker 2: Amazing? It's really hard when you finish the job, that
Speaker 2: you're passionate about, like racing obviously explained it to you
Speaker 2: how fun it is and exciting and exhilarating. So it's
Speaker 2: tough when you stop, you know, life becomes a bit
Speaker 2: boring in a way because you've taken away that spark.
Speaker 2: But still being able to work with these incredible animals
Speaker 2: that we work with, like beasts that they are. That
Speaker 2: you get their trust and you see their kind eyes
Speaker 2: when you walk out to see them in the paddic and.
Speaker 1: You see kindness in their eyes unbelievable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they just soften, you know when you come up
Speaker 2: to give them a pat and just to have that
Speaker 2: every day in your life is just an absolute blessing.
Speaker 2: So training is the next best thing, I guess from
Speaker 2: riding in a race. You still get that same excitement
Speaker 2: when you see your horse go out basically for battle
Speaker 2: for you, and all that work that you've done behind
Speaker 2: the scenes in preparing them for that, strengthening them physically, mentally,
Speaker 2: having them prepared to really want to hit the line
Speaker 2: for you as best they can. So much is involved
Speaker 2: with that. It's not just a matter of getting a
Speaker 2: horse fit and sending them to the races. You've got
Speaker 2: to have them mentally coping and you never hurt them
Speaker 2: along the way because I remember if they race when
Speaker 2: they're not fit enough, and you know that they were
Speaker 2: sort of asked to extend when they didn't have enough
Speaker 2: enough fitness under their belt.
Speaker 1: So are they sensitive?
Speaker 2: So sensitive?
Speaker 1: I mean not, I guess emotionally as a word, but
Speaker 1: they are. Are they?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah? If you run a horse unfit, you know,
Speaker 2: it's the best way to teach them not to try,
Speaker 2: because I'll be like stuff this, you know that hurt
Speaker 2: less practical Yeah, exactly, so like riding, and it's still
Speaker 2: racing so much involved in so many intricate details that
Speaker 2: make you successful. So it just makes it fun and
Speaker 2: challenging and really rewarding when it all comes together.
Speaker 3: And if you as a trainer, do you have a
Speaker 3: soft spot then for a young short pain who might
Speaker 3: be said about there somewhere looking for a ride and
Speaker 3: doesn't get it. I mean, how do you play that part?
Speaker 1: I mean, do you probably a.
Speaker 2: Bit tough on young riders coming through to you know,
Speaker 2: go to work hard. It's not just you see all
Speaker 2: the fun and the glitz and glory that I want
Speaker 2: to do that. Of course, if somebody really wants to
Speaker 2: do it and do well, I'll give them every bit
Speaker 2: of advice and sit them down and talk them through
Speaker 2: everything that I've learned that could help them. But I
Speaker 2: also don't want to waste my time if somebody is
Speaker 2: just all bit airy fairy and thinks it's just, you know,
Speaker 2: a fun thing.
Speaker 3: And well that you owe them one because you know,
Speaker 3: because some people would think that, they would say, well,
Speaker 3: she had their glory run and she won the milk up,
Speaker 3: and Michelle's a female and she should be looking after
Speaker 3: me because I'm a female.
Speaker 1: It's not about that.
Speaker 2: Well, look, like I said, I'm happy to help anybody,
Speaker 2: but busy unless you know busy. But if it's somebody
Speaker 2: really wants to try hard to do well, give them
Speaker 2: all the time in the world, because to pass on
Speaker 2: the knowledge that I've learned over the years, and passing
Speaker 2: what I was taught is just one of the greatest
Speaker 2: gifts you can you can have and give people.
Speaker 1: Does your dad come out to Nodding Nottingham Farm?
Speaker 2: Yep. Dad lives down the road so you're not far
Speaker 2: from each other. No, No, that's very great.
Speaker 1: So Stevie still comes up.
Speaker 2: Yep. Stevie comes up, rides bike up there and he's
Speaker 2: got a little cabin on the farm and we own
Speaker 2: the farm together. So cool. It's it's honestly beautiful to
Speaker 2: have had the high of winning the Melbourne Cup and
Speaker 2: the fun and excitement that I get to do, but
Speaker 2: then go back to the peacefulness of the farm, with
Speaker 2: the serenity and the quietness. We have no street lights.
Speaker 1: It's it's that's the best.
Speaker 2: So quiet. It's honestly living my best life.
Speaker 3: Well, I guess from from the summaries that I've got
Speaker 3: too though, it's not just about winning the race on
Speaker 3: the particular day and how wonderful that was, et cetera.
Speaker 3: Because life's not just all shiny. Does the book lean
Speaker 3: into some of the more raw things that have happened
Speaker 3: to you in your in your career, and androbably even
Speaker 3: brought more broadly.
Speaker 1: Just your life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely does. We didn't want to just focus on
Speaker 2: all the positive things, because life's tough and people go
Speaker 2: through tough times, and that's why we I really wrote
Speaker 2: the book not just for the insights in the Melbourne Cup.
Speaker 2: That's just the first part of it. The rest of
Speaker 2: the book is a lot around the struggles and the
Speaker 2: challenges that I faced. One was the next year I
Speaker 2: had a really bad fall. At the time, I was
Speaker 2: struggling to deal with the Malbourne Cup in the way
Speaker 2: that it was just exhausting me. And it was such
Speaker 2: a life changing race that I didn't know how I
Speaker 2: was going to keep up with everything, all the opportunities,
Speaker 2: and you know, not make the most of them, because
Speaker 2: I thought, why wouldn't you, But you know, it was hard.
Speaker 2: So at the time I was wondering how I was
Speaker 2: going to keep going. And I was heading towards a
Speaker 2: huge troop in Europe where I was going to write
Speaker 2: in Sweden and England and many opportunities are so excited
Speaker 2: about but exhausted thinking about. And I'd written Prince of
Speaker 2: Penzance in Adelaide and had flown to Mildreurer on the
Speaker 2: Sunday to ride and unfortunately had an awful, horrible fall
Speaker 2: where I fell underneath my own horse and it stood
Speaker 2: on my stomach. Well, and this is a yeah, flat
Speaker 2: gallop and at the time when I felt like when
Speaker 2: I come to it and woke up on the track,
Speaker 2: I remember being called curled up in a ball and said,
Speaker 2: something's really bad and bleeding inside, and we talk about
Speaker 2: that and when you.
Speaker 1: Say you're bleeding inside, what does that mean.
Speaker 2: I didn't know. I just could feel something bad had happened.
Speaker 2: And as it turned out, I was flown to the
Speaker 2: Alfred Hospital later that night and operated on it twoesday.
Speaker 2: The next morning, I'd severed three quarters of my pangreas
Speaker 2: off and there was hanging by a thread and they
Speaker 2: had to remove it and sewed it to my stomach.
Speaker 2: So having that fall in a way saved me because
Speaker 2: I totally got peace for my recovery after nearly killing me.
Speaker 2: At the same time, the recovery of that was tough,
Speaker 2: unbelievably tough. I prayed to God every day to get
Speaker 2: through the pain. Each night. I didn't know how I
Speaker 2: was going to survive it, and you know, people go
Speaker 2: through many things that are hard, and I wanted to
Speaker 2: talk about that and how I dealt with it, and
Speaker 2: some of that was just taking my little trolley of
Speaker 2: you know, s bag of saline and tubes that were
Speaker 2: coming out of me and going for a walk around
Speaker 2: the ward. I just walk laps and laps to pass
Speaker 2: the time. When I was able to, you know, get
Speaker 2: up and out of bed and you know, just little
Speaker 2: tricks that might help others to get through really tough
Speaker 2: times that they get through. So talk about that in
Speaker 2: sort of pretty good detail. Talk about stalkers that I
Speaker 2: faced after.
Speaker 3: The race, as in people message you, you and Neil
Speaker 3: following you around the joint.
Speaker 2: Yeah, unbelievable. Like I never imagined how bad it could be.
Speaker 2: People jumping my gate at the farm coming in. One
Speaker 2: guy just wandering around. I could see him on the
Speaker 2: cameras in the middle of a Sunday. Another guy jumped
Speaker 2: the gate on a Sunday morning through COVID. We're in
Speaker 2: strict lockdown. Come to come around the back. It was
Speaker 2: just me and Stevie there, and you know, it was
Speaker 2: started chatting. I was like, sorry, mate, you're not supposed
Speaker 2: to be here and it's private property. And he started
Speaker 2: to sort of abuse me for being rude to him
Speaker 2: even though he was on my property, and later resulted
Speaker 2: in him messaging me and abusing me and passed out
Speaker 2: down on my on my dad's front lawn and had
Speaker 2: to be pulled in by the police. Yeah, drunk. So
Speaker 2: another guy went to jail. Another guy got arrested for harassment.
Speaker 2: So it was many times that I just couldn't even believe,
Speaker 2: so obviously talk about that and and overcoming that, especially
Speaker 2: you know, living living out on a farm. And one
Speaker 2: of the toughest chapters I think to write was a
Speaker 2: chapter on my sister who passed away this year through suicide,
Speaker 2: and the mental challenges and mental health challenges she faced,
Speaker 2: and how we tried to get through it as a family,
Speaker 2: and what maybe we could have done differently. Which sister
Speaker 2: was that my older sister Bernadette, who used to look
Speaker 2: after me when I was a baby, used to feed me.
Speaker 2: She was eleven years old when my mom passed away
Speaker 2: and took on the role of getting up in the
Speaker 2: middle of the night and looking after me and giving
Speaker 2: me a bottle. You know, whether maybe she should have
Speaker 2: had counseling back then, and we didn't know about it,
Speaker 2: just different things we thought we could have done through
Speaker 2: life that maybe could have steered her path in a
Speaker 2: different direction.
Speaker 3: We carried that drawing a whole life exactly because at eleven,
Speaker 3: you know what's going on.
Speaker 2: So whilst it was really traumatic to write, it was
Speaker 2: beautiful to talk about her because she was a beautiful
Speaker 2: person before mental health took over. So that that's the
Speaker 2: chapter I really wanted to write. And I spoke to
Speaker 2: the family, you know, do you think I should You know,
Speaker 2: is it okay? Is it respectful to her? Is it
Speaker 2: good because it will help other people? And they all
Speaker 2: agreed that if our what we face could could help others,
Speaker 2: then they were happy for me to write about it.
Speaker 2: And another one is talking about the mental health I've faced.
Speaker 2: Probably mental health is not the word I should use,
Speaker 2: but the concussions that I've had, and the worry about
Speaker 2: CTA CTE and what the unknownness of it and things
Speaker 2: I was feeling through that tough time of losing her
Speaker 2: and trying to figure out what was the best path
Speaker 2: to take. And one thing that I learned was knowledge,
Speaker 2: and you know, going and getting an MRI, seeing what
Speaker 2: they could find on there, investigating it further, doing further
Speaker 2: neurosyte tests. And I think your knowledge is power and
Speaker 2: it's helped me a lot to know when I need
Speaker 2: to rest and take it easy instead of pushing yourself
Speaker 2: through brands. Obviously a fragile thing and it has to
Speaker 2: be exercised, but it also has to be rested at
Speaker 2: the same time. So I try to talk as openly
Speaker 2: as account about that because you know, you know things
Speaker 2: that can happen with people with this CTE and.
Speaker 1: We're just concussions and dementia.
Speaker 2: Exactly and the scariness of it, and I knew what
Speaker 2: I was feeling, so I was very keen to write
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 3: So just on just on that one is it's great
Speaker 3: that you talk about it because it's rare women talk
Speaker 3: about it because it's usually footballers, guy footballers and stuff
Speaker 3: like that, but there are plenty of female soccer players
Speaker 3: and netball players get it too.
Speaker 1: Soccer girls get.
Speaker 3: It from soccer, from hitting the ball, AFL girls get it,
Speaker 3: Rugby league girls get it, et cetera. Boxes get it,
Speaker 3: female boxes get it. It's good to hear someone like
Speaker 3: you talk about it because it's more of a worry
Speaker 3: than most people give it credit for. And I think
Speaker 3: what you're saying is that you said knowledge is power.
Speaker 1: It's I think.
Speaker 3: Which you're sort of saying is don't just sort of
Speaker 3: locked up in the closet and forget about it.
Speaker 1: Do something about it. Perhaps gett an Ameria see if
Speaker 1: there's a you know, if the brain's.
Speaker 3: Looking looks normal, or do the neurosie test with a
Speaker 3: neurologist or a psychologist to see how you respond. Those
Speaker 3: sort of things empower you a bit, exactly. At least
Speaker 3: you can get a sense of how you feel about stuff.
Speaker 1: And maybe I love it.
Speaker 3: I love the fact that you did that because I'm like,
Speaker 3: I'm really intensely interested in taking control of our lives.
Speaker 3: Whether it's feeling like a victim, which you've never have,
Speaker 3: but you could have taken, a feeling as though you
Speaker 3: might be vulnerable to brain injury, which you know you
Speaker 3: could be, but you didn't. You don't feel victims that
Speaker 3: you take try to take control over. They're important chapters,
Speaker 3: that sort of sentiment. Whilst the winning part of really
Speaker 3: exciting and fun to listen.
Speaker 1: To or read that sort of stuff is it can
Speaker 1: be life changing for.
Speaker 2: Some people exactly. And I think you know, you got
Speaker 2: to live, you got to learn by what you live
Speaker 2: as well. And I haven't spoken about her at this point,
Speaker 2: but my oldest sister, Bridget, she passed away when she
Speaker 2: was thirty seven. She had a brain injury and complications
Speaker 2: of that led to her passing away seven months later
Speaker 2: I think it was. And after my sister Bernie passed
Speaker 2: away this year Bernie, Sorry, Pannadette. She I was obviously
Speaker 2: very upset and sad. I didn't know if I was depressed.
Speaker 2: I was trying to figure out all the feelings. And
Speaker 2: I remember lying in bed one day thinking, why wouldn't
Speaker 2: you go and investigate this like you're worried about it.
Speaker 2: I had been worried about it for a long time,
Speaker 2: because you know, you watch tragedies that happened through CT
Speaker 2: and if you get a chance to read the book,
Speaker 2: I don't know how my brain is so good considering
Speaker 2: the amount of falls I've had and traumas to my head.
Speaker 2: I just thought, you're so crazy and stupid not to
Speaker 2: go and get it checked out when you're worried about it.
Speaker 2: So the next day got up booked an appointment, was
Speaker 2: able to get in straight away for an MRI, which
Speaker 2: was just so nice to get in and not have
Speaker 2: to worry about it another day, and just to start
Speaker 2: the process of learning more about it. And it took
Speaker 2: a while. It wasn't an overnight fix where I just
Speaker 2: felt instantly better. Worked with the doctors from Racing Victoria,
Speaker 2: who obviously specialized in a very wide range of falls
Speaker 2: from horse racing, and yeah, we started a plan and
Speaker 2: it's yeah, like I said before, knowledge has just helped
Speaker 2: me feel so much more empowered and feel good about it.
Speaker 3: I think that's a really good point, the plan. You've
Speaker 3: got to have a plan. It might be perfect, you
Speaker 3: might change it, you might revise it, update it. But
Speaker 3: if you have a plan, you feel better, exactly for
Speaker 3: some reason, you just feel better. It may help you
Speaker 3: be better, but you actually feel better, and that's part
Speaker 3: of it feeling better exactly.
Speaker 2: You don't want to feel guilty if you know that
Speaker 2: you should be having arrest, but if I personally feel
Speaker 2: lazy if I'm not doing enough work, or you don't
Speaker 2: push through to get stuff done. But it's about listening
Speaker 2: to yourself, and it's stupid not not to listen to
Speaker 2: to what's working and what's not working. So that's something
Speaker 2: that I've really learned as well.
Speaker 3: I feel like this straight Talk episod has become a
Speaker 3: project one hundred episode, my other, my other project, my other,
Speaker 3: myther podcast. I mean here we are talking about health
Speaker 3: and not to mental health and to her brain health,
Speaker 3: and like that's pretty important. The brain is like runs
Speaker 3: the whole show. You can't replace a brain. You can
Speaker 3: replace it hard. You can get transplants all that sort
Speaker 3: of stuff, but the brain part is really important. And
Speaker 3: you know, like someone like you who's you know, I
Speaker 3: reckon if I fell off, also probably.
Speaker 1: Would never want to get up.
Speaker 3: Like the amount of resilience that you show and also
Speaker 3: being able to just take if you're going to do
Speaker 3: something about it.
Speaker 1: That's pretty tough.
Speaker 3: You're old man, he's a mister Payne. He's a tough dude.
Speaker 3: And your mom, who obviously I didn't see her in
Speaker 3: the show because she wasn't a low but she must
Speaker 3: have been pretty tough too, both of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so remarkable. Really obviously, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: What would you say to your mom now? Now?
Speaker 3: What would you want to say to your mom she
Speaker 3: was sitting here obviously, let's say she was interviewing you
Speaker 3: now and talking to you about two sisters and your
Speaker 3: life and all the stuff you had to deal with
Speaker 3: and all the stuff I've been dealt out to you.
Speaker 1: What would you say to your mom?
Speaker 2: You're going to make me a bit sad if I
Speaker 2: think it about too much sad. That's a good thing.
Speaker 2: I just hope she's proud of us. And what was
Speaker 2: Alma Stevie.
Speaker 1: And your dad.
Speaker 2: Well, I think I see doubt every day.
Speaker 1: But do you say things to him? Do you tell
Speaker 1: him what you think?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Pretty straight up with him.
Speaker 1: Don't worry about that because I one of the things.
Speaker 3: I lost my foont last year, you know, and I
Speaker 3: regret not telling him some things.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, to be honest, I live down the road,
Speaker 2: two kilometers down the road from him, and sometimes I'm
Speaker 2: at home, I'm tired, it's not time, I think the south.
Speaker 2: Don't be lazy, go down and see him, because I
Speaker 2: definitely would hate to live with regret. And it's interesting
Speaker 2: you say that about you know what I would feel
Speaker 2: that I haven't said to him. But yeah, I don't
Speaker 2: think too much. I think we're pretty open with each other.
Speaker 2: He's pretty straight shooter. Don't worry about that.
Speaker 3: I saw that on the show. I was wondering if
Speaker 3: that was a faithful way of depicting him.
Speaker 2: Kind version, like obviously he's a great man, really obviously
Speaker 2: kind And I kin't of even put into words what
Speaker 2: I feel about how how good he is. And even
Speaker 2: at eighty nine years old, he moves with the times,
Speaker 2: and he goes home and he thinks about things. But Yeah,
Speaker 2: he is a straight shooter and he definitely doesn't bounce
Speaker 2: around your feelings, that's for sure, but in a good way.
Speaker 2: I think he just tells you how it is and
Speaker 2: you just have to suck it up and take it
Speaker 2: on and find a positive from it, you know, get better.
Speaker 3: Maybe you don't need to tell him that. Maybe he
Speaker 3: just needs to look at the daughter he's race and
Speaker 3: that tells him everything.
Speaker 2: Well, he gets a reminder sometimes.
Speaker 1: Well, Jay, what I did.
Speaker 3: I started up a whiskey company for my dad. I
Speaker 3: don't know if that was telling him the right think
Speaker 3: or not. I built a whiskey business off the back
Speaker 3: of him because I know he like whiskey.
Speaker 1: Michell payin things for much.
Speaker 2: Thank you.