WEBVTT - Conversations with Cornesy - Peter Norris 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.720 Did I everyone, welcome to conversations. Today's guest has an 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:07.360 amazing story. It's been an amazing journey, really born into 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:09.640 a life of crime. I can't describe it in any 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:11.800 other way. Born into a life of crime. His dad 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:15.240 was a hardened professional criminal and was in and out 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:21.040 of jail, and Peter Norris, who's my guest, was dragged 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:24.439 around the country to various locations with his mum and 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.560 dad first and his dad then into institutions and then 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:31.360 into a foster home. But he emerged from that, and 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.559 we'll cover that story as we go. He's recounted the 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.720 journey in a book called The Bank Robber's Boy. Peter Norris, 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:38.960 good morning, how are you? 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.360 Yeah, good morning, Cornsey, I'm great, thank you, and yeah, 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:44.640 really appreciate your having them on your show. 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:49.159 It's an amazing story. I mean, it's what intrigues me 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:52.120 out the book. When you get to the epilogue, you're 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:57.120 only twelve. That life you fit into those years zero 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:00.840 to twelve, so jam pa, and then you cover the 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:03.760 rest of your life where you've emerged from such a 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:07.880 difficult upbringing to being successful as you are now. But 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:10.480 we'll come to that. You rely on your brother, your 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:14.600 brother Day's early memories for the first couple of chapters 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:17.360 to tell us about your dad. So, yeah, tell us 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:18.240 your early memory. 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:23.440 Yeah. I mean, as you just alluded to Cornsey, that 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:28.080 first sort of twelve years of life. Even looking back now, 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:30.840 I go, it feels like another lifetime because there was 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:34.400 so much packed into that. Yeah, and a lot of it, 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:40.240 you know, not necessarily positive experiences, some traumatic. But my 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:46.320 first memory as a child, as a four year old, 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:49.960 and I was living with people who I thought were 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:53.680 my biological family, and we were the Robinson's, and I 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.440 had a mom and a dad, and I had two siblings, 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:04.280 two brothers. And it's a really surreal memory that one 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:07.000 night I had a blood nose. I used to get 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:08.959 these blood noses as a kid all the time, which 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:12.160 is not uncommon. And I bled all over my sheets 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.480 and my pillowcase, and the person I thought was my 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:21.760 father gave me this strapping across the back of the legs, 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:26.440 which was a massive overreaction to an accident. And I 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:31.400 laid there that night and the next morning and I 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:35.760 had this powerful sense of I don't belong here. And 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.680 that's probably the best way I can explain it. Is 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:43.079 that I looked at my surroundings. I looked at Mum 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.760 and Dad and my siblings, and I went, why am 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:50.400 I tall and thin with dark curly hair. Why are 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:52.839 they short and round with red hair? So I had 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:56.960 this revelation of sorts that this is not where I'm 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:00.440 meant to be, and it was really strange. That was 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:01.440 my earliest memory. 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.880 It's you're only four then, I mean that InTru you've got. 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.440 You've got good memories of early good memories. You've got 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:13.520 clear memories of those early years. So so we'll come 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:15.400 to the we'll come to the Robinson's in due course. 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:19.600 We'll tell us about your dad. I mean those those 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.840 early years where your brother Dave recounts things that were 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.920 happening around the household and the different names that you 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:32.160 had to be known as. So you tell us about 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:32.519 your dad. 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:39.800 Yeah, look, dad, Dad had a similarly traumatic childhood, you know, 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:44.440 growing up in Grafton Jail and Tamworth Boys Home. And 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.600 it was in one of these places that he met 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:52.480 some fairly well known criminals like George Freeman. And as 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.160 you know, as my brother Dave tells it, George was 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:58.120 a young eighteen year old when he first went into jail, 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.000 and Dad was a bit more of a season criminal 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:03.400 at that stage, so they took young George under their 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:06.520 wing and got him a coveted job in the in 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.800 the bakehouse, so he wasn't cleaning toilets and scrubbing showers 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:13.320 and those sorts of things. So George kind of joined 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:16.599 that gang. But of course, you know, George went on 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:19.440 to become a lot, a lot sort of more famous 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:21.839 as a criminal, I suppose, and my dad who preferred 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:26.760 to stay in the background, but yeah, Dad and his crew, 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:29.159 and you know, they were bank robbers. 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:33.359 And did he ever did he talk about did you 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.119 have a chance to talk about his upbringing? You mentioned 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:38.919 a tough upbringing? Yeah, did you meet his Did you 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:41.640 meet your grandparents on your dad's side, for instance. 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:46.559 I met my grandmother on dad's side, and there wasn't 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.880 a lot of talk about family history those things. So 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:53.480 it was really only probably when I was in that 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:56.640 age of eleven to twelve where I started to really 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:59.960 dive into some of that family history. And I'm sure 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:04.080 will get to some of those stories. But yeah, I 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.960 suppose the way that that early part of life and 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:10.919 I came into the care of the family, like the 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:17.919 Robinson's dad was a hardened criminal, and my mum lived 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:22.640 with us up until the age of eighteen. And again, 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:25.520 you know, my brother recalls these memories really vividly that 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.839 mum actually had enough and went off and found another boyfriend, Tim, 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:34.560 who was a command an ex commando in the British Army, 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:37.479 and he'd moved to Australia and Mum and him met 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:42.360 and anyway, Dad sort of took a disliking to a 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:45.520 couple of things that happened over there and went around 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:49.320 with the tomahawk and smashed the door down and caved 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:51.720 a bit of him his head in with the tomahawk, 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:55.159 and and yeah, next thing the family were back together. 0:05:55.320 --> 0:06:00.440 But yeah, it certainly wasn't a happy environment for mum, who, yeah, 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:04.120 from that point formed a drug habit, and yeah, it 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:07.600 was obviously planning her escape as well. 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:11.240 There's a moment in the book, sad moment in the 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:14.719 book where your grandfather sets you down and says we 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.359 won't be seeing your mother again. And it leaves me 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:20.040 hanging right until the end, because I wondered what happened? 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:25.000 Did she die? Did she commit suicide? Did you a 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.160 young man and being told that you won't see your 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:29.120 mother again. How do you deal with that? 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:34.640 Yeah, she told her kids, all of us, so there's 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:37.039 four of us that she was going shopping for the day, 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:40.760 and yeah, grabbed her bag as she normally would, and 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:44.400 hopped on a bus and that was it. Cornsey, we 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:47.760 haven't seen or heard from her since. There hasn't been 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:51.000 a single She would only be in her seventies now, 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:56.840 so you know, likely alive, hopefully still alive, and yeah, 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:59.920 but just just disappeared off the face of the earth. Yeah, 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:01.839 to this very day. 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.200 Well, I kept waiting for her to reappear in the book, 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:07.600 to be quite honest, I kept waiting for you to 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:11.120 track it down and real did you try to do that? 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.760 Tried to do that early in life. There was a 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.880 few programs through the Salvation Army where you were able 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:22.920 to locate missing family members, and we tried everything we 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:29.240 could to find her. And look, I don't begrudge her 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:31.360 for making that decision. It would have been a pretty 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:35.200 tough environment for her. The only question that I would 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:39.000 have for her is, even at this stage, is how 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.200 you walk away from four children? You know, you've got kids, 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:44.200 I've got kids. We know how tough that would be 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:48.360 to leave them and never communicate with them again for 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:50.600 the rest of your life. So that would be a 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:52.920 tough one, I imagine, And I'm sure you know she 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.360 went through some hell with that decision herself. 0:07:56.360 --> 0:08:00.000 So the Robinson's is not a pleasant experience for you, 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.360 strapped for having a blood nose and bleeding all over 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.000 your sheet. So what happens then? I mean of it, 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.680 it's a journey from one place to the next. As 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:11.600 you're reading through this book, it's hard to settle because 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:14.320 you don't settle and your dad's there and then he's gone, 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:18.440 and then he reappears magically. So what happened after Robinson's. 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:23.160 Yeah, after the blood nos incident, there was a little 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:25.160 bit of time, a couple of weeks where you know, 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.360 I even went to school. I was going to kindergarten. 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:31.840 I went to my kindergarten teacher and my mood was 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:33.520 a bit down. And she said to me one day, 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:36.840 she said, oh, what's wrong, Peter. You're normally this happy 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:42.120 child who's running around the playground. And I said to her, 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:46.040 I said, I'm looking for my real family. I wanted 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.920 to get me And again it sounds really strange that 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:54.040 a four year old was so certain that he didn't 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:58.520 belong where he was. And I recall that day because 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:02.960 she was really kind and she said to me something 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:05.720 along the lines of, you know, if you're patient, the 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.960 things you wish for will come. And I looked turned 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:11.400 around and I was, you know, fifty meters away from 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:13.480 that conversation when I walked away, and she was still 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:15.280 just watching me, and I'm sure she was thinking, what 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:19.200 the hell is going on with that kid? And anyway, 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.640 it was the weekend after that conversation, and I was 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:26.200 running circles around the front yard. Was a very active child, 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:30.920 and the person I thought my mother was cutting roses 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:36.000 off the rosebush. And the front gate squeaked open, and 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:40.600 I turned around and there was this man with sort 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:46.560 of thick muscular arms and he was making a vline 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:48.800 straight to me, and he had this smile on his 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:52.800 face that I'll never forget. And not a word needed 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.400 to be exchanged. I knew, I just knew that that 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.240 was where I belonged, and he put his arms out, 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:03.320 I jumped into them. And that was Dad who spent 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:07.040 which I found out later spent eighteen months in the 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:11.640 New South Wales court system legally getting his kids back together. 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:13.360 So that was a really special moment. 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:15.599 He knew him straight away. 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:20.520 Obviously I didn't know the face. I hadn't didn't remember 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:24.440 the face, but you know, there's just something in my 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:27.520 gut that that's where I belong. I hopped, There was 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:31.320 no hesitation. I hopped into his arms. He was crying. 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:35.640 I was crying, and yeah, there was an exchange of 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:41.280 conversation between him and the Robinsons and maybe a social worker, 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:43.960 there was somebody else there, and I didn't hear any 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.600 of that. I was just caught him, you know, just 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:50.280 staring at this man and just this feeling of content 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:51.640 and happiness, and. 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:55.360 Just did he take your way straight away? He did? 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:57.960 Yeah, he walked me out. There was a car waiting 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:01.360 out the front, and you know that that moment got 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:03.920 even more special when we got to the car and 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:09.600 there was two little girl's faces pressed up against the 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:13.240 window and they were giggling and clapping and cheering, and 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:16.600 as I would learn in the the sort of half 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:18.840 an hour after that, they were my sisters who had 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:21.720 already been collected and knew that they were getting their 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:22.240 brother back. 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:24.880 And you never knew you had had a sister let 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:25.400 alone too. 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.240 Never knew I had a sister let alone too. So 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:33.800 it was again a strange experience for that journey in 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:36.000 that car back to the house that Dad had set 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:40.679 up for us to hear about what my family had 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.560 been doing. And you know, one of my sisters was 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:47.680 quite vocal, so she was telling me everybody's story, and 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:49.439 you know, I got a half an hour wrap up 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:52.800 of you know, how it came that I was back 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:55.560 in this car with my real family. So it was, yeah, 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:57.520 just a and still you know, one of the most 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:58.640 beautiful memories. 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:02.400 I have, your older brother, Dave. He seemed to he 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.440 seemed to be distant from the family from time to time. 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:08.760 It was there a reason for that, Yeah. 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:13.640 He had he had a really strong relationship with my 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:18.480 with my grandfather, which is my mother's father. So and 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:20.880 if we take a step back, you know, when mum 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:24.480 caught that bus, my grandfather took us to you know, 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:27.200 as we said, took us to a church and handed 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.280 us out to different families. That I went to the 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:32.959 Robinsons and my sisters went elsewhere, which even in itself, 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.280 was a strange thing to happen. And yeah, so Dave 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:40.320 remained with grandfather and did so for y you know, 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:43.319 a fair chunk of his childhood. He felt safe and 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:46.600 secure in that environment, so he stayed there. 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.040 Peter Norris is my guest. His book is called The 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.360 Bank Robber's Boy. It's a what's the story of a 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:57.640 young fellow who's affected by the the criminal aspect of 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:01.920 his father. He delves into little bit of crime himself 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:04.560 a bit later into the book, but has emerged successfully, 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:08.640 tremendously successfully. Back after the break. If you just tuned 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.960 into conversations, we're speaking with Peter Norris. Now, Peter is 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.400 the son of a man who was once shown on 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:18.360 that television show Australias Most Wanted. We'll talk about that 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:21.120 because that comes as a bit of a surprise to 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.280 a young fellow watching TV and his father's face pops up. 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:27.000 But if you just tuned in, Peter's four years of age. 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.520 His mum and dad have split up. He's been fostered out, 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:33.080 but his dad goes through the court system and finds 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:35.920 him and reunites the family, or two of the sisters 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:39.760 and Peter. But it doesn't seem to get any easier. Peter, 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.480 you're four years old, you with your sister and your dad. 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:45.840 He set up a house, but you go from place 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:50.560 to place, I mean tell us about the insecurity of 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:50.840 all that. 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:56.320 Yeah, and that was a challenging times as a four 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:58.560 year old child at this stage. You know, I had 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:02.080 no idea that our family was any different than any other. 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:05.720 I didn't I certainly didn't know that dad was a criminal. 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:11.360 So when we were told in the middle of the 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:16.040 night regularly, you've got ten minutes, grab one bag. You've 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:18.040 got a backpack, whatever you can fit in. That is 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:20.560 all you get to take, you know. So I'd grab 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.720 Tom the Turtle, my teddy bear, and a few you know, 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:26.680 a few bits of clothing and we'd be out the door, 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:31.000 and you know, no chance to say goodbye to any 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:35.120 friends that you'd made at school. Yeah, we're just just out. 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:38.160 And it was yeah, and all I've our belongings left 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.080 in the place and this this you know from there, 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:43.480 It's just a process that was repeated over and over, 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:48.040 which was really unsettling and took a little bit, certainly 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:49.080 a long while to get used to it. 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:51.600 If you ever do not for the fact you had 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.160 to change your your name regularly, how did you handle that? 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.720 Yeah, we'd have this briefing from you know, from Dad 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.000 if we started a new school all that. Okay, you know, 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:06.560 don't forget that today your surname is Reynolds or you know. Yeah, 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.760 I mean, you know, A funny part of the story 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.359 is is that Norris is actually not my surname. It's 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:16.440 not my birth name. My birth name is Pugh p 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:20.400 u g h. And but my birth Gibbie says Norris 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:22.440 because that's just the way Dad set it up at 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:26.400 the time. So I'm still running under a fake name 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:29.880 necessarily as as my children, but we've never never changed 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:30.360 it back. 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:34.560 If your birth certificate has got Norris on it, how 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.440 did that happen? Was it was he operating with a 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.080 fake name because you sign that as well. 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.680 Yeah, yeah, operating under a fake name. It was obviously 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.840 regularly wanted by the by the police for various things. 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:52.240 So it looks like just at the time, yeah, that 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:54.240 was the name that we were using, and it's it's 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:56.080 on my birth certificate, so it stays. 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:57.680 How did you find out your own name? 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:02.000 Well, I was for all well, when I had a 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:07.080 connection to some of Dad's family. Yeah, after we kind 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.520 of went our separate ways, and they were all pews. 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:12.840 And then I've had to look up dad's records. There's 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:17.600 an article actually in the Sydney Morning Harold where Dad 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.560 escapes from Long Bay jail. This is before my birth. 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:23.760 He knocked out one of the guards and put the 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:26.520 prison uniform on and just strolled out the front gate. 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.280 But as the article goes, it's, you know, Clarence Donald 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:36.320 Pugh escaped and he's and police are searching bush bush 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.080 around the abound the prison to see if they can 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:43.080 locate this escape prison. So yeah, there's all these things 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:46.320 that go, yeah, that that's you know. My surname is 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.040 not meant to be Norris, so it's. 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.200 Called the Bank Robbers. Boy. You don't talk much about 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.560 the banks that he robbed in the book. Yeah what did? 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:57.960 What did? What do you know about those crimes? 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:04.760 Yeah? I think the earliest memory I have of Dad 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:09.919 actually being a criminal was one evening one afternoon. Actually 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:12.919 Dad was having a little snooze on the couch. So 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:15.520 my sisters and I went looking for Christmas presents. It 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:17.920 was nearly Christmas time, and so as you do as 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:20.480 a kid, we're searching through the d and we thought 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.200 our dad's wardrobe is probably the spot where we'll find them. 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:26.159 So we pulled a chair out and climbed up on 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.359 top and had a look, and there was some blankets 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:32.000 and things that look like they're hiding something, so we 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:36.040 pulled them out and anyway, we found three brown bags 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:40.120 and they're all filled with cash, bundles of cash, and 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.920 we've wrapped up with elastic bands. I don't know how much, 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.760 but you know, there was bundles and bundles and bundles 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.760 of cash and two handguns in one of the one 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:54.560 of the bags. So we quickly put them back and 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:56.639 we made this little pack between the three of us 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:58.679 that we wouldn't mention it again, and we certainly wouldn't 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:01.800 be telling Dad that we knew about it. But it 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:05.639 was about that time that we realized that life probably 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:08.320 for us was not normal, and our family was a 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:14.800 little bit different than anybody else. And then from that 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.399 there was a few other moments. So Dad would always 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.679 so I was really, really really close to Dad. I'd sleep, 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:22.960 you know, in his bed every single night, cuddled up. 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:27.200 But almost every night, without fail, he'd think I was 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.760 asleep and he'd slip out and he'd be gone for 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:31.720 hours in the middle of the night and come back 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:34.800 in the early hours of the morning, and there'd be 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:38.840 new things in the house. There'd be new TVs, bikes 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:41.399 for us, There'd be all these this new stuff, and 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:43.399 then a week later it'd be gone again. 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.639 But as you're describing it, it seems more like a 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:49.960 petty criminal and than a bank robber. Did you read 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:52.080 did you research any of the bank jobs that he did? 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:56.600 Yeah, there's a few, and there's a few that I recall. 0:18:56.680 --> 0:19:01.080 And one there's a Petersham This a hospital, not a bank, 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:03.359 but this is one big one, an armed robbery where 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:06.320 and I remember going there with Dad and he was 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:08.720 he got a job as a cleaner, and it was 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:11.600 only for about two weeks, and I wondered why, But 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.880 what he was doing was watching the watching the staff, 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.520 and obviously the payroll system in that day was all 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:21.720 done in cash. And then two weeks later he didn't 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:25.640 work there anymore. And then on the news I saw 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:29.760 that two armed men had taken the ten thousand dollars 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:34.959 payroll by a shotgun. And then we were off again moving. So, 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:37.280 even at that age, and I think I would have 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.880 been about six at that point, I started to put 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:46.040 two and two together. Probably my main in terms of banks. 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:49.479 It was probably really talking to Dad. He was he 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:51.920 actually didn't get caught, and he got caught for one, 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.160 but a lot of the bank the bank were robbery 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:58.520 crimes he didn't get caught for. But you know, there 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:00.399 was one later on in life, when we were traveling 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:03.560 across the wa which will get to that. He told 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:08.320 me about that, just a bank in Sydney where Dad's 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:13.600 job was to subdue this one guard who was meant 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:15.199 to be pretty tough and was going to be the 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:18.840 main problem. And as Dad tells me, he said, you know, 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:20.560 I went in and I put a shotgun in his 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:22.680 face and told him to get down or I was 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:25.359 going to blow his head off. And he didn't move. 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:28.560 He just stood there looking at me. And then Dad said, okay, well, 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:30.720 the intel's right. He is going to be a problem. 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:33.360 So I said it again. Get on your bloody knees, 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.159 are I'm going to blow your head off? And again 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:38.080 he didn't move, And then Dad said, and then I 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:41.560 noticed something. His eyes just glazed over and he started 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:45.760 to piss himself. And I realized then that he'd gone 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:50.359 into this catatonic state of shock, and he wasn't, in 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:54.240 fact all that tough. He was scared, just like everybody else. 0:20:55.800 --> 0:21:00.040 Can you excuse that behavior though, where you're relating it 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:01.280 so matter of factly. 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:05.119 No, I can't. It looks I'm relating it as he 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:09.840 told me. But what I will say is on hearing 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:13.119 that that there was that moment and there was a 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:17.760 few others where that was really an indication to me 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:21.159 that I didn't want to be my father. I was 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:23.760 certainly not proud. And he had a little chuckle as 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:26.560 he told me that, thinking, you know, he wasn't so 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.119 tough after all, Pete, and on a little little hit 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:31.120 on the shoulder like he was proud of it. And 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:36.040 I actually felt shame and certainly some dread and sorrow 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:38.080 for the poor man who had to experience that. 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:41.280 You're just one of those that are a romantic air 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:45.280 about the you know, the criminal bank robbin, like the 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:50.920 Butch Cassidy Sundown's kid. Yeah, is there something remotely romantic 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:51.320 about that? 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:57.240 Look? I don't find anything too romantic about the crimes 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:00.919 because I've seen on too many Asians the impact it 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:04.919 has on the victims, you know, And I think another 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:07.239 one that sticks in my mind was you know we 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:10.960 were and it's not a you know, there's no weapons involved. 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:13.680 But we were driving to the races one day in 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:15.720 a taxi and Dad was a bit of a punter. 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:19.520 When he'd stolen enough money that he could punt. We'd 0:22:19.600 --> 0:22:21.720 be off to the races every weekend. And he had 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:25.359 this hot tip and he paid the taxi driver ten 0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:27.360 bucks to get there as fast as he could, and 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:31.199 one of my sisters she vomited all over the back seat. 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:34.399 We just put up at the races and it was 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:36.679 only a couple of minutes to Dad's hot tip was 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:38.879 about to jump, so he had to get the bed on, 0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:41.919