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Speaker 1: I get countered when I say do high intensity interval

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Speaker 1: training and spread interval training and heavy resistance training, because

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Speaker 1: these are the harm works we know that improve not

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Speaker 1: only muscle function and metabolic health, but also brain health.

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Speaker 1: And people are like, well, I don't.

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Speaker 2: Want to do it, doctor c C Simms, Welcome to

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Speaker 2: the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Hello, and thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: We are just across the ditch from each other. But

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Speaker 2: you wouldn't know what to listen to us, right, I

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Speaker 2: know we're.

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Speaker 1: Like on the very bottom of the world, but we

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Speaker 1: don't come from this area of the world.

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Speaker 2: So what brought you to New Zealand the.

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Speaker 1: First time around? Oh? So long ago. I was in

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Speaker 1: living in San Francisco and working and a job came

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Speaker 1: up and I was like, yeah, I'm twenty six single,

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Speaker 1: not atachments. Why not that I moved down here and I

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Speaker 1: did my PhD, and I got married, and then I

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Speaker 1: moved back to California and worked at Stanford for a while,

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Speaker 1: and then launched a company and closed it down, and

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Speaker 1: then got to a point where I was like, not

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Speaker 1: quite sure my husband really wanted to move back because

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Speaker 1: he's from here.

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Speaker 2: Ah, there we go. I was wondering why.

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Speaker 1: I came back, so we moved back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you are at AUT. You're an adjunt

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Speaker 2: profit aut with a good mair of mine who the

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Speaker 2: listeners will be very familiar with Grand Professor Grant Scholfield

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Speaker 2: because he's been on my podcast probably four times, five

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Speaker 2: times now maybe.

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Speaker 1: All right, nice, yes, I know great, he's yeah.

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Speaker 2: Very cool, very cool. So you let's just just tell

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Speaker 2: our listeners a little bit about your background. So obviously

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Speaker 2: we talked about the back and forth, but talk about

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Speaker 2: your kind of career to this point.

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Speaker 1: It has not been a smooth sailing path. If when

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Speaker 1: I was eighteen, I wouldn't tell you what I was

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Speaker 1: doing when I was nineteen. So I've just taken opportunities

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Speaker 1: because I look at it as the sliding doors phenomena. Right.

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Speaker 1: If you go through it right and you're like I

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Speaker 1: wish I had done X y Z, then you should

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Speaker 1: probably do the xyz because you can always come back

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Speaker 1: to where you are. So that's kind of how I

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Speaker 1: viewed things. So my career has been a little bit interesting.

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Speaker 1: Where I started as an athlete and in academia exercise physiology,

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Speaker 1: I worked outside of the academic scope, worked for an

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Speaker 1: obesity surgeon as an exercise physiologist for a while yep,

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Speaker 1: and then I worked cardiac rehab for a while, then

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Speaker 1: got back into more of the academic and sport focus.

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Speaker 1: So that's kind of like how I did my PhD

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Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff being an elite athlete

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Speaker 1: wanting to answer questions. Then when I got to Stanford,

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Speaker 1: I started as an exercise physiologist in the Human Performance Lab,

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Speaker 1: but then moved over to do a POSTOC in the

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Speaker 1: Prevention Research Center with Marshall Stefanik, who is known for

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Speaker 1: being the PI for the Women's Health Initiative. But I

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Speaker 1: had one hand in that database and the other in

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Speaker 1: human biology and human performance, so meshing those two worlds together.

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Speaker 1: So this is why all the conversation about menopause and exercise,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, why did people not know this? I've been

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Speaker 1: looking at this for like fifteen years. So the driver

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Speaker 1: really has been as an athlete wanting to understand answers

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Speaker 1: to a lot of the questions that I had as

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Speaker 1: a competitive athlete, and now wanting to know the answers

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Speaker 1: for my friends who have been olympians and now are coaches,

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Speaker 1: as well as getting older in the aging population, how

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Speaker 1: do we keep thriving as we get older instead of

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Speaker 1: being told that we've aged out. So it's all been

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Speaker 1: in the strive of what is human performance, how do

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Speaker 1: we optimize it and at the same time having the

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Speaker 1: availability to go to the lab or work with other

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Speaker 1: populations to see how we can merge the two ideas

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Speaker 1: together or not. So that's how I've kind of looked

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Speaker 1: at my career across the the different waves.

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Speaker 2: Very cool and in the last few years you kind

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Speaker 2: of have exploded onto the scene in terms of getting

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Speaker 2: out to the masses, which is quite cool, and particularly

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Speaker 2: with your research on the sex differences, which we are

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Speaker 2: are going to come back to. But I love what

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Speaker 2: you have right on the front of your website. Women

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Speaker 2: are not small men. And I first realized that, oh Jesus,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, fifteen years ago doing Malnutrition Masters, and

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Speaker 2: we looked at a study that was around sleeping tablets

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Speaker 2: and how all the research have been done on men

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Speaker 2: and then when they studied women in sleeping tablets, they

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Speaker 2: metabolize them completely differently and often end up with a

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Speaker 2: massive fog that lasts halfway through the next day. So

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Speaker 2: tell us just so our listeners understand why historically has

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Speaker 2: the vast majority of the research being done on man

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Speaker 2: and particularly coffee ghed Man. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I like to explain it as if we look

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Speaker 1: historically what has gone on with regards to modern medicine,

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Speaker 1: it was started by men and men in the room,

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Speaker 1: because historically women have been thought to have smaller brains,

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Speaker 1: be delicate, not as smart, all of these things. Even

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Speaker 1: I'm a fan of Darwin, but I'm not a fan

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Speaker 1: of the fact that he put out there that women

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Speaker 1: have smaller brains. So are there pretty Yeah, so therefore

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Speaker 1: not as intelligent as men? So what Yeah, So historically

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Speaker 1: we look at how research has been designed, right, and

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Speaker 1: so it has been designed and methodology has been kind

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Speaker 1: of evolved by who has been in the room. And

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Speaker 1: if we think about it, men have been in the room,

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Speaker 1: and so the studies have been very well designed and

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Speaker 1: thought as through the view of a male lens, like

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Speaker 1: how does the male body work? Men don't have minstrual cycles,

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Speaker 1: they don't have pregnancy, they don't have perimenopause, they don't

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Speaker 1: have menopause. So none of that came into the equation,

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Speaker 1: none of it came into the methods. So as we

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Speaker 1: start looking at the gender data gap and we start

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Speaker 1: looking at the lack of robust research on women. It's

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Speaker 1: because of this historical thread that keeps being pulled through.

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Speaker 1: Even to now twenty twenty four, Well, we're still seeing

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Speaker 1: an incredible gap in the research and the outcomes. And

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Speaker 1: now as we start getting more and more into AI

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Speaker 1: and how AI is learning and learning from the existing data,

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Speaker 1: is perpetuating that gap. So historically we've been aware of it.

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Speaker 2: Right, Sorry, is that stacy? Because AI all that can

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Speaker 2: do is troll through historical data, and the vast majority

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Speaker 2: of that historical data is man. So the stuff that

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Speaker 2: AI is coming up is meal centric, yes.

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Speaker 1: Which worries me when we start seeing companies like Thrive

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Speaker 1: in the US that's using AI driven information to push

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Speaker 1: out to women and to understand what are these diseases

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Speaker 1: that are coming on and how are we supposed to

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Speaker 1: accommodate for them when they're missing the mark on things

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Speaker 1: like cardiovascular disease which presents differitely in women than men,

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Speaker 1: and autoimmune disorders that have a higher incidence in women

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Speaker 1: than in men. So if the data is not taking

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Speaker 1: to account sex and ethnic differences, we're creating a greater gap.

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Speaker 1: So historically we've known, we started putting a fix to it,

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Speaker 1: and we're seeing this upsurge of really good robust research

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Speaker 1: on women. But then we're having this whole AI issue

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Speaker 1: that's coming in that's perpetuating the lack of closing this gap.

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Speaker 1: So I'm hoping the pendulum swings the other way and

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Speaker 1: we land back in the middle where we start going, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we see xx versus x y, and then we have

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Speaker 1: other perturbations of our chromosomes that affect different diseases different ways.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, and then as you said, there's the racial

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Speaker 2: differences as well, because I know that there are a

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Speaker 2: fur few differences when it comes to particularly to metabolic disorders. Yes,

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Speaker 2: so yeah, that's that's a very interesting indeed. Okay, let's

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Speaker 2: get onto the major topic of today, which is all

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Speaker 2: about exercise, given that you are a bit of an

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Speaker 2: exercise guru, and I think a good conversation starter would

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Speaker 2: be a twenty fifteen paper that I'm sure you will

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Speaker 2: have read that says exercise atten yates all the major

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Speaker 2: hallmarks of aging, right and back just before then, there

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Speaker 2: was a paper released about the major hallmarks of aging,

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Speaker 2: and then there were nine I think a paper last

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Speaker 2: year added another two. But exercise basically atten yates and

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Speaker 2: for the non academic people reduces or counteracts all of

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Speaker 2: those nine major hallmarks of euaging and the latest two

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Speaker 2: that came out, it also has positive effects on those

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Speaker 2: as well. Right, Why has exercise got such a broad

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Speaker 2: scope when it comes to these different ways that the

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Speaker 2: body edges.

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Speaker 1: Exercise is a stress and the way the body responds

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Speaker 1: to stress is to learn that stress and overcome it

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Speaker 1: and put in different mechanisms to survive. So if we're

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Speaker 1: thinking about using exercise as a means to attenuate cognitive

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Speaker 1: decline or cardiovascular risk factors, or look at DNA and

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Speaker 1: telemere length. Right, So if we're adding different intensities or

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Speaker 1: different modes of activity, it's creating different stresses, not only

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Speaker 1: in a whole systems level, but on that cellular level.

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Speaker 1: Body has to understand what is oxidative stress? What is

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Speaker 1: you know some of the feedback mechanisms, How do we

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Speaker 1: increase our MCT ones versus our mct fours for lactate transport.

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Speaker 1: So there's all these things that respond to intensity duration.

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Speaker 1: We look at resistance training versus aerobic all of those

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Speaker 1: encounter and create a different stress on the body. And

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Speaker 1: the body in itself is not like this linear algorithm

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Speaker 1: that's like, oh, you walk three times a week, so

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Speaker 1: we're going to allow you to walk three times a week.

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Speaker 1: It's like, oh, okay, you walk hills three times a week.

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Speaker 1: We want to overcome that and develop more bone density

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Speaker 1: and more muscle mass so when you go out again,

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Speaker 1: your heart rate doesn't go up as high. So it's

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Speaker 1: one of those things that people I don't really think

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Speaker 1: about understanding because we've been put in this sedentary box

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Speaker 1: and we have major farm and that's like here, take this,

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Speaker 1: Take this, take this. When we back it down and

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Speaker 1: look at how exercise creates this perturbation to the systems

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Speaker 1: and creates a catabolic response while we're exercising, creates these

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Speaker 1: oxidative responses, creates this incredible blood flow diversion from our

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Speaker 1: main central organs while we're exercising, and in response, the

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Speaker 1: body is like, wait, I need to be able to

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Speaker 1: overcome this and survive. So it puts in that adaptive response,

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Speaker 1: and this is how we get fitter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And I will often say to people, I've spoken

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Speaker 2: to thousands of people about exercise over the years, some

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Speaker 2: people go, yes, I love it, and others go, I

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Speaker 2: don't like it because that makes me uncomfortable. And my

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Speaker 2: response is it's supposed to be bloody uncomfortable, right, right, right.

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Speaker 1: And this is the thing I get countered when I say,

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Speaker 1: you know, do high intensity interval training and spread interval

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Speaker 1: training and heavy resistance training, because these are the harm

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Speaker 1: works we know that improve not only muscle function and

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Speaker 1: metabolic health, but also brain health. And people are like, well,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to do it. I'll like, you have

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Speaker 1: to challenge yourself. We're not designed to sit in a

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Speaker 1: chair in twenty degree celsius rooms all day, every day.

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Speaker 1: That's the body is just not going to adapt. What

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Speaker 1: it's going to do is become complacent, and it's not

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Speaker 1: going to respond to stress.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, you know, there's a quote that I will

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Speaker 2: often use from the stoic philosopher Epictitis that I think

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Speaker 2: you're going to love if you have aren't already familiar

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Speaker 2: with it. He said, we must all undergo a hard

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Speaker 2: winter training and not enter into lightly that for which

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Speaker 2: we have not prepared. And he was talking about life.

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Speaker 1: It's perfect, that is yeah, that is yeah, Okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to put that on the website.

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Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, I'll send that through. I thought you'd like that.

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Speaker 2: So when I did my Masters in Exercise science thirty

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Speaker 2: thirty years ago, I'm showing my age here. We were

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Speaker 2: taught about mio kinds back then, right, And the understanding

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Speaker 2: of myo kinds back then were that these are molecules

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Speaker 2: inside the muscle that helped to shake the lucose and

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Speaker 2: fat and turn it into energy for the muscle, for

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Speaker 2: cellular muscle contraction. And then those mayo kinds then help

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Speaker 2: your muscles get bigger, stronger, right, And we know that

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Speaker 2: that is still true, that is absolutely true. But we

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Speaker 2: now know that these myokinds get outside of our muscle

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Speaker 2: and into circulation. And I describe it as just widespread

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Speaker 2: magic that happens throughout the body and the brain. So

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Speaker 2: take our listeners through myokindes. Just give us the ten

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Speaker 2: thousand foot few of mayokines, and then feel three to

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Speaker 2: dive in wherever you want to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I explained it to my daughter the other day.

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Speaker 1: There are soldiers, So when your muscles under stress, right,

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Speaker 1: you have the soldiers that come and go what's going

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Speaker 1: on and want to protect it. I can't protect it

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Speaker 1: right here. I have to also go out and tell

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Speaker 1: the bigger system that something is going on. So the soldiers,

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Speaker 1: the maokines are trying to protect the muscle fibers by

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Speaker 1: creating a feedback mechanism to not completely destroy any of

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Speaker 1: the cellular components within the muscle so it can still

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Speaker 1: function when the stress is gone. But they also come

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Speaker 1: out because they're like, wait a second, I need more fuel.

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Speaker 1: I need to go find the bigger system and say

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Speaker 1: I need to bring some more fuel in so it'll

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Speaker 1: find like visceral fat and say hey, we don't need

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Speaker 1: fat to be stored there. We need it to be

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Speaker 1: deestrified and released so we can bring it to the mitochondria.

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Speaker 1: So you have this feedback mechanism that's telling the liver

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Speaker 1: not to take estterfied fatty acids and store it as

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Speaker 1: a visceral fat. We have things that the brain should require,

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Speaker 1: so we look at lactate and intensity of lactate production.

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Speaker 1: Most people think that lactate is a metabolic waste product,

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Speaker 1: but we know that it's not right. See, the brain

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Speaker 1: is a lactate producer at rest, and it's a lactate

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Speaker 1: user and uptake uptaker I guess is the best way

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Speaker 1: to put it during exercise. So the myicinds are like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's stimulate a leve percent more uptake into the brain

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Speaker 1: of lactate. So we have to stimulate some more of

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Speaker 1: the mct ones in fource, so let's get those going.

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Speaker 1: So we have these little soldiers that are really messengers

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Speaker 1: that affect every system the body when you're exercising to

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Speaker 1: create an adaptive response that we want. We want to

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Speaker 1: have better muscle function, We want to have better translocation

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Speaker 1: of those little glute for proteins that open up the

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Speaker 1: cell to bring more carbohydrate and glucose in to be stored.

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Speaker 1: We want to have the liver understand that we don't

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Speaker 1: want to circulate all these estrified fatty acids to be

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Speaker 1: stored as that deep abdominal fat. We want to be

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Speaker 1: able to convert it and use it and store it

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Speaker 1: within the muscle. So we have all these feedback mechanisms

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Speaker 1: that come and they're so incredibly important because they really

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Speaker 1: are only released when we are looking at exercise and

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Speaker 1: the muscle function that occurs during exercise. We see that

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Speaker 1: high intensity exercise increases more of the mykines that are

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Speaker 1: responsible for discussing with the brain in lactate uptake. We

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Speaker 1: see that super high sprint interval type training, so that

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Speaker 1: super super high intency creates more of a bigenetic signaling

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Speaker 1: and change to translocate more of those glute forward proteins

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Speaker 1: so that we have a reduction in the insulin resistance.

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Speaker 1: So there's so many things that occur with these signals

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Speaker 1: and these little soldiers that do their jobs.

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Speaker 2: So well, there's a few things I want to double

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Speaker 2: click on in there. The first one, let's just stick

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Speaker 2: the last one. You mentioned glute four protein. So I

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Speaker 2: remember finding out about these things and oh my god,

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Speaker 2: they're so cool. Right, And the way that I sort

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Speaker 2: of explain it to people is the way that glucose

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Speaker 2: generally gets into the sale. It's think of your trying

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Speaker 2: to get into a nightclub and there's bouncers on the door,

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Speaker 2: and the bouncers is basically the insulin receptor, right, So

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Speaker 2: we'd use insulin to get in, but then when that's

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Speaker 2: full of that line is is just jam packed, you

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Speaker 2: can actually sneak around the back and get in through

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Speaker 2: the glute forward door, right right. Talk to us about

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Speaker 2: Why this is so important, particularly given the high prevalence

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Speaker 2: of diabetes and then the cousin of diabetes type three

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Speaker 2: diabetes are Alzheimer's disease in the brion. Why is how

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Speaker 2: does coluct for play a role here?

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Speaker 1: They are specific proteins that when we see the muscle

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Speaker 1: needs more glucose for fuel, that there's that signal to okay,

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Speaker 1: let's translocate these little proteins from within the matrix to

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Speaker 1: the cell membrane. So when it gets translocated, that means

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Speaker 1: it comes to the cell membrane, pokes a little hole through,

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Speaker 1: opens it up, and it's like waving a flag going hello, glucose,

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Speaker 1: come on in, so we don't need insulin. And for

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Speaker 1: women we see there is estrogen alpha receptor, an estradyle

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Speaker 1: receptor that also signals that to happen. So this is

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Speaker 1: why we start to see that insulin resistance occurring when

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Speaker 1: we are hitting late perimenopause, when we start having a

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Speaker 1: decline in our estrogen, we are not stimulating those receptors.

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Speaker 1: We're not getting as much feedback for those glute for translocation,

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Speaker 1: which is why again we look at high intensity work

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Speaker 1: that uses a lot of glucose to translocate more of

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Speaker 1: those proteins to that cell wall to bring in more

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Speaker 1: glucose without insulin.

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Speaker 2: And is that one of the reasons that drop an

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Speaker 2: estrogen and that little pathway of glucose into the cell.

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Speaker 2: Is this one of the reasons, And we'll get into

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Speaker 2: this more in detailed liater, but is that one of

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Speaker 2: the reasons why women tend to put on we it

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Speaker 2: when they go through menopause? Is that one of the causes,

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Speaker 2: But it's more insulin resistance or just at a rise

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Speaker 2: in blood sugar.

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Speaker 1: Part of it is insulin resistance, but the other is

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Speaker 1: the anti inflammatory response that estrogen causes. And when you

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Speaker 1: drop estrogen, you have a little bit of mitochondrial dysfunction,

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Speaker 1: so now you're having extra free fatty acids. And then

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Speaker 1: when you have extra free fatty acids, their circulation becomes estrified, right,

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Speaker 1: and so you get those estrophied fatty acids that then

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Speaker 1: get picked up by the liver, and the liver's like, okay,

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Speaker 1: we're going to store you in around the organs as visceral.

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Speaker 2: Fat vistral fat. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, yeah, So it's the combination of the insulin resistance,

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Speaker 1: so you're not getting as much glucose in, so you're

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Speaker 1: not able to utilize free fatty acids because you need

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Speaker 1: glucose in order to make the mitochondria go oh yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: I need to bring in more free fatty acids. So

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Speaker 1: it's kind of a block. You're not getting the glucose

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Speaker 1: in because of insulin resistance, You're getting more free fatty

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Speaker 1: acid circulating, which then get switched over to estrophied fatty

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Speaker 1: acids and you get this cascade effect of insulin resistance

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Speaker 1: visceral fat. So we can change that through exercise.

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Speaker 2: And is this one of the reasons why that when

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Speaker 2: women go through men a pause, they're cardiovascar risk starts

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Speaker 2: to normalize towards man Yes.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we see a significant shift in the lipid profile

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Speaker 1: for women who are late perimenopause, where there's an increase

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Speaker 1: in our LDL, decrease in HDL, some changes in triglycerides,

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Speaker 1: but we're seeing a negative change in our cholesterol on

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Speaker 1: our blood lipids. Part of it is that whole issue

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Speaker 1: that I was talking about with the free fatty acids

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Speaker 1: and estrified fats and that kind of stuff and insulin resistance,

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Speaker 1: and then as we're having that downturn of estradyl's effect

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Speaker 1: on our cell and cell metabolism and anti inflammatory responses.

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Speaker 1: We start to see cardiovascular respectors across the board increase,

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Speaker 1: not only from the lipid profile but also cardiovascular function.

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Speaker 1: We see a decrease in our ability to have normal

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Speaker 1: blood pressure because of endothelial function that's controlled by estradyl.

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Speaker 1: So there's a cascade effect that estrogen and to the

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Speaker 1: extent their different receptors have with regards to cardiovascular health

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Speaker 1: and metabolic health. But again interesting, we can look at exercise.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and we will come back on that in terms

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Speaker 2: of exercise as an intervention, but let's not I mean,

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Speaker 2: we use the lactiat as an intro here, but let's

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Speaker 2: talk about more generally the role of exercise and Brian health.

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Speaker 2: Because I first came across this when was that I

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Speaker 2: started doing fables, maybe ten twelve years ago. I first

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Speaker 2: came across BDNF with the paper by Mark Mattson and

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Speaker 2: started diving into that and then just started really talking

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Speaker 2: about the impact of exercise on Brian health. So give

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Speaker 2: our listeners the overview and then again feel free to

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Speaker 2: dive in wherever you want. So why is it so

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Speaker 2: important for Brian health? Actually, let me let let me

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Speaker 2: dive firse. I remember a quote by Professor Frank Booth.

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Speaker 2: The human genome has not changed in over forty five

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Speaker 2: thousand years, and the current human genome requires and expects

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Speaker 2: us to be highly physically active for normal functioning. Right,

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Speaker 2: And I often say, nowhere is that statement more true

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Speaker 2: than in the human brain. So why is our brain

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Speaker 2: so dependent upon physical activity for normal function? And then

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Speaker 2: we can talk about optimal function?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I mean the neuroplasticity is a big thing

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Speaker 1: that keeps coming up in longevity. So what does that mean?

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Speaker 1: It means the brain changes with different stressors. Right, So

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Speaker 1: we're thinking about if we sit down all day and

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Speaker 1: we're at the computer screen, or maybe we do some

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Speaker 1: soduku or wordle or whatever it is, because we heard

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Speaker 1: that improves brain health. It only keeps it within the

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Speaker 1: confounds of a small box. There's no real stress on

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Speaker 1: when we look at exercise because exercise is such a

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Speaker 1: strong stress with blood flow diversion. Right, So we have

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Speaker 1: to find adequate and optimal blood flow to keep the

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Speaker 1: brain going as well as muscle metabolism and function. So

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Speaker 1: we're seeing a little bit of heated blood. Of course,

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Speaker 1: so the hypothalamus is reading it as an increase in

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Speaker 1: core temperature and the brain is like, how do I

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Speaker 1: deal with this? Okay, well, we have to find other

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Speaker 1: pathways to improve sweating. We have to find greater capacity

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Speaker 1: for increasing vasodilation. So it becomes very active in how

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Speaker 1: am I going to survive this increase in heat? So

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Speaker 1: you're getting this feedback to increase thermoregulatory aspects. Not only that,

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Speaker 1: we're having a lot of blood flow diversion from the gut,

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Speaker 1: which affects gut microbiome, right, And we're seeing that when

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Speaker 1: we have that hypoxym blood flow diversion, we increase our anaerobes.

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Speaker 1: So we're seeing an increase in our anaerobic bacteria and

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Speaker 1: we see more of the bacteria associated with positive health

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Speaker 1: outcomes lane mass and increased serotonin and B and F

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Speaker 1: when we have more of those anaerobs.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: So with that blood flow diversion away from the gut

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Speaker 1: and we have that hypoxia, we're getting the growth and

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Speaker 1: stimulus of the bacteria that's responsible for increased B, D

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Speaker 1: and F.

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Speaker 2: Are these aners sorry, are these anaerobes just in the gut.

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Speaker 1: For the most part, Yes, in the deep colon, so

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Speaker 1: it's not in the upper gut, it's in the lower got.

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Speaker 1: And then we also see the lactate aspect, right, So,

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Speaker 1: as I was saying earlier, when we're doing intensity or

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Speaker 1: even steady state with some lactate production, because it does happen,

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Speaker 1: we're seeing the brain using its preferred fuel. So people go, oh,

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Speaker 1: glucose metabolism, it's essential for brain health. That's why the

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Speaker 1: big ketogenic diet thing came out a while ago. But

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Speaker 1: now we're learning more and more about how lactate is

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Speaker 1: necessary for glial cell conversation. So these are our neurons

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Speaker 1: ability to have conversation. Not only does lactate improve that,

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Speaker 1: but lactate also stimulates BDNF production. So when we're looking

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Speaker 1: at exercise, there's so many different feedback mechanisms that create

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Speaker 1: the fertilizer for the brain. So BDNF is response before

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Speaker 1: increasing the volume and the tissue of the brain. But

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Speaker 1: then we also look at things like resistance training and

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Speaker 1: the neuroplasticity that that occurs, which increases the gray matter conversation. Right,

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Speaker 1: So we're looking at more dendrites that are having conversations,

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Speaker 1: and so we're putting down increased pathways of conversation, which

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Speaker 1: improves brain health. So when we're looking at brain health

434
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: and exercise, it's important to do both aerobic anaerobic activity,

435
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: more so anaerobic for women because we are born with

436
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: less glycolytic fibers, so we have to keep training them

437
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: to produce that tape. Yeah, and then we also have

438
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: to look at resistance training both men and women to

439
00:25:55,240 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 1: keep that neuroplasticity and keep the gray matter in those conversations.

440
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 2: Very interesting, and there's an independent mechanism for BD and

441
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 2: F production in the brand. I know lacked it, but aricent.

442
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 2: I don't know whether Americans pronounced that irison or whether

443
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: you say a risin, but that also is that's a

444
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 2: mile kind that also stimulates the production of BDNF.

445
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: Yes, it is. It is definitely, And I mean that's

446
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: something else where people.

447
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 3: Are like, well, you know, I'm just going to do

448
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 3: zone two, where it was like, okay, well you can

449
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 3: do zone two work for if you're a guy, because

450
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 3: you need that, but as a woman, you're not going

451
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 3: to get the same earson, and you're also not going

452
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 3: to get the same I guess conversation for BD and

453
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 3: F and increasing our LAC tape metabolism. So this is

454
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 3: where we start looking at the sex differences that come

455
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 3: into play for brain health.

456
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 2: I mean, the listeners might be going why they're majoring

457
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 2: so much on BDNF. I mean, BD and F does it?

458
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 2: Some people describe it as miracle grow for the briand

459
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 2: it is. You know that that thing that they is

460
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 2: like a fertilizer they had in America, but it is.

461
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: It does act like that, doesn't It helps new connections

462
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 2: between brain sales. It helps you to grow new brain sales,

463
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 2: which we didn't think was possible to in lightteen ninety seven.

464
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: And it actually protects the brain sales that you have

465
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:20,199
Speaker 2: against damage, either stress induced damage or traumatic brain injury.

466
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 2: So there are drug companies all around the world are

467
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 2: trying to synthesize BD and F and get it in

468
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 2: a pill form to deliver it to the brain. But

469
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 2: until then, the best source of it is physical activity.

470
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we do see that depending on where in

471
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: the brain that you're hit for a TBI in concussion

472
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: can directly affect your recovery because of BD and F,

473
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: So we see, you know, we're getting more and more

474
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: research about sex differences in recovery, but also where the

475
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: brain has been hit the most, like in a concussion,

476
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: is it rebound or is it directed? Because then that

477
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: can directly influence how fast you can recover from a concussion.

478
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: And they're tracing it down to BD and F how

479
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: it stopped and it's being produced again, And so when

480
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: they're looking at return to play with regards to brain health,

481
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: they're having to rethink what do we mean by that?

482
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 1: With return to play with intensity, we don't want to

483
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: hit the brain again, but we also want to encourage

484
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 1: BD and F. So do we do that through strength training?

485
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: Do we do that through low aerobic work? Do we

486
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: do a couple of twenty second surges? So it all,

487
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: you know, there's a whole bunch of really cool research

488
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: coming out in the TBI. Mild TBI research looking at

489
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 1: what do we actually mean by return to play and

490
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: concussion recovery?

491
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 2: Interesting, very interesting. So what's the leadest Because my finger

492
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: has been on the pulse in this for a couple

493
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 2: of years in terms of intensity and exercise type for

494
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 2: maximizing BDNF I, understanding loads a few years old, the

495
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 2: age that it really optimizes around that lacktiate threshold because

496
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 2: obviously lack t it is shot leading it into the

497
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 2: brand as is Arisen and maybe cathepsin B. But what's

498
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 2: the leadst thinking on modality of exercise intensityjuriation for optimizing

499
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 2: BD and F.

500
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Phil Ainsley and Jim Carter did this really

501
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: cool study. I think it was maybe three years ago,

502
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: maybe four years because time evades me. They looked at.

503
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 2: It's Jim catter ki we yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I

504
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 2: think I was wanting to Jim Carter before. Yeah.

505
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: Cool, he's down in the University of Otago.

506
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah cool.

507
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: So they looked at low intensity, modern intensity, and high

508
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: intensity training and wanted to see how bad and F

509
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: responded to these three different levels. Most people thought modern

510
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: intensity or modern intensity interval training would be the best

511
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: because it's it's taxing but not too taxing. And they

512
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: found that with true high intensity work that was the

513
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: biggest bang for your bucks with regards to how much

514
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: bad and F was produced and how long the curve

515
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: was to bring it back down. High intensity work is

516
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: where you want to go. Not only that, but we

517
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: see that with that lactate production and the increased amount

518
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: of lactate in the blood, that's what creates it transient

519
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: increase in the beating as your body's trying to clear it.

520
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 2: Right, Okay, And in terms of the intensity, which means

521
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 2: different things to different people, can you remember off the

522
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 2: top of your head what that the methods looked like they.

523
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: Were doing wingate sprints and was thirty seconds on one

524
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: minute off by twelve. Fuck, I know, not going to

525
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: get very many people doing that, but that's what like

526
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: when you talk about high.

527
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 2: Intensity, that's that's real high intensity, right.

528
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: That sprint interval stuff.

529
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So for the listeners are wingate, this is

530
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 2: thirty minutes of all out effort, and it's horrible. It

531
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 2: is absolutely horrible, Like because most people think, you know,

532
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 2: it's a thirty minute all out sprint, but your pow

533
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 2: drops off after ten fifteen seconds, right, so your muscles

534
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 2: are already struggling, and it is it's pretty brutal to

535
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 2: do that and then to backup, did you say a

536
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 2: minute rest? Wow? And into back up? How many repetitions to.

537
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: Do do so? They did? I think it was eight

538
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: to twelve.

539
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 2: It's twelve right, So that is that's proper. That's real

540
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 2: high intensity. I mean, because a lot of people talk

541
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 2: about high intensity interval training and it's not really high intensity, isn't.

542
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: I explained it to people. I'm like, if you think

543
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: Orange Theory F forty five CrossFit, your general gym class

544
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: is high intensity interval training, it's not. That's modern intensity.

545
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: If you can go and you're holding your heart rate,

546
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: you know, up and down for forty five to fifty minutes,

547
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: that's not incensity.

548
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 2: No, no way.

549
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: We're looking at one to four minute interval with one

550
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: to four minute recovery, and that's on the low end

551
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: of high intensity. For really strong impetus. We want to

552
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: do that sprintable training. And I teach people on the

553
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: assault bike, like how hard can you go for thirty seconds? Well,

554
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: your friends around you cheering you on, and you have

555
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: to beat your friends, have recovery and then beat the

556
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: meters you got the first time.

557
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 2: Wow, that's that's that's pretty evil. Because so I will

558
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 2: do so in the Norwegian four by four protocol, which

559
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 2: you'll be familiar with. Right, So that's four minutes of

560
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 2: full on work. But you know you're you're probably you're

561
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 2: only your heart rate between ninety and ninety five percent,

562
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: so it's tough. And then you three minute recovery and

563
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: you do that four times. That's a tough work. Guard.

564
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: I will also do this sixty second by ten, so

565
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 2: sixty seconds full on and in sixty seconds recovery and

566
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 2: do that ten times. I find that harder, significant harder

567
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 2: than then they're reaching four by four. I don't use

568
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 2: the selp out us a versa climber, which is the

569
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 2: only bit of equipment that is probably equally as evil

570
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 2: as the assault by because on both of them you

571
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 2: got all four limbs going yep.

572
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, yep. This I'd say, yeah, cross country skiing

573
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: would mimic it be. It's like, yeah, there isn't an

574
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: urg except the old fashioned Nordic tract sat there anymore.

575
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 2: That's right.

576
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

577
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 2: Versa climber is an evil piece of equipment. I've had

578
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: mine for about fifteen years and it's still so let's

579
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: I mean. The other thing I think about brain health

580
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 2: as well, which not a lot of people talk about,

581
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 2: is the neurosymphony that happens in the brain whenever you're exercising.

582
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 2: I mean, everybody hears about has heard of endorphins and

583
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 2: an endorphins get all the plaudits, But as I said

584
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: to people, your monomines do most of the heavy lifting

585
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 2: when it comes to the impact of exercise, seroton the

586
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 2: tope of me new adren and then you've got into

587
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 2: cannabinois and inca falons. So I have a theory and

588
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 2: I just wanted to rotest this with you that significant

589
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 2: amounts of the mental health issues that we are facing

590
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 2: today are that people are geos not physically active enough

591
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 2: because they're not producing. If we go back to the

592
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 2: quote by Professor Frank Booth, the human genome requires an

593
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,879
Speaker 2: expect should be highly physically active for normal functioning. Yeah,

594
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 2: what's your thoughts on that in terms of neurotransmitter release

595
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 2: in the brand and mood.

596
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: So, like I said before we came on air, like

597
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,439
Speaker 1: all day, I've been writing about brain health and looking

598
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: at the news research and especially in mental health and

599
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 1: depression and the past I guess beginning of twenty twenty

600
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: three to a study that was produced or published last month,

601
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: it was all looking at RTC's on depression, and the

602
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: common theme that kept coming up is when people are

603
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: severely depressed, it's and then they get put into either

604
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: resistance training or high intensity work. It brings them out

605
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: of depression, keeps them out of there. So we have

606
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: to look and say, well, why is that What is

607
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: happening to the brain the one it's being challenged. Two,

608
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: Like you said, it's creating an incredible uptake and production

609
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,720
Speaker 1: of our dopamine, are serotonin and all of the things

610
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: that encourage a boost in mood. Right, And because we're

611
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: having an increase in neuroplasticity from the stress that they

612
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: haven't had before, it's creating that adaptive response to say, hey, okay, yeah,

613
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: I need to keep this pathway because I don't know

614
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: when I'm going to get that stress again. So it's

615
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: creating that adaptive response. And we're saying how incredibly important

616
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: it is to have that higher stimulu us for brain

617
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: health to bring us out of that depression, helps with

618
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: anxiety as well. And then we can talk about like

619
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: using creatine to actually compound that effect, right, because we

620
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,879
Speaker 1: need creating for all those fast energetics, and we're seeing

621
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: the uptake in the saturation of creating is not where

622
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: it should be optimally because of the poor diet that

623
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 1: most people are eating now, the ultra process foods, the

624
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: lower intake of animal products that haven't been through the

625
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: US food system, right, yes.

626
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 2: Yes, And I think that is a really important point

627
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 2: the neuroplasticity side of things, because there's a lot of

628
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 2: bit about antidepressants. I had a professor Mark Hargreaves on

629
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 2: the podcast. He was one of the guys that completely

630
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 2: put a balm onto the serotonin theory of depression and

631
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 2: showed it was complete bullshit. You know. Their theory was

632
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: that it's mostly stress and that recovery from depression is

633
00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 2: a neuroplasticity process, and exercise creates all the conditions necessary

634
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 2: for neuroplasticity, right, which is why we see in the

635
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 2: research that exercise beats antidepressant medication hands down. I don't

636
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 2: know if you saw the paper recently on use with

637
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 2: depression and they put some of them, half of them,

638
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 2: it was an RCT. Half them did resistance training twice

639
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 2: a week and went into the remission that had an

640
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 2: effect size of one point seven or one point eight

641
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 2: like crazy. So to give the listeners some contexts, right,

642
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 2: Cohen's the effects size zero point two is a small

643
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 2: effects size, right, which means it's marginally better than placebo.

644
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 2: And we see with a lot of antidepressants they're not

645
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 2: point two. Zero point three zero point five is moderate

646
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 2: and correct me if I'm wrong and we're going off

647
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 2: the top of my head. Not point eight is a

648
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 2: large effects size like one point seven one point eight

649
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 2: it's created these bunkers. Right, If any drug came on

650
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 2: the market with an effects size with depression of one

651
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 2: point seven one point it would be an absolute blockbuster, right.

652
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: It would be a zimpeck all over again.

653
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 2: Yes, it would be a zimpic for the brie. And

654
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 2: absolutely can we do a little diversion into a zimpic?

655
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 2: Sure your thoughts, short term, long term probes and cons Yeah.

656
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 1: So, like I said at the beginning, I worked for

657
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: an obc surgeon way before any of the GPO ones

658
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: were available, and this was like full restructure obesity surgery,

659
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: and there were people who came in there were actually

660
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 1: still too heavy even though they were being they were

661
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,839
Speaker 1: seeking obesity surgery, they were too heavy to be able

662
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: to go through the surgery. So they had to follow

663
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: a high fiber, hyprotein diet and they lost a few pounds,

664
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: but enough to reduce their respector for undergoing a ruin

665
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: y or gastric bypass.

666
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 2: I had admit exactly the same thing, and he had

667
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 2: to lose to kilos shape and qualify for the surgery.

668
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 2: It was one hundred and fifty kilos and not very tall.

669
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So when we look at the effect of

670
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 1: high protein, high fiber, we see that increase in the

671
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: GLP one. Right, So when we're looking at ozimpac and

672
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: ozimpac is the same. You know, it's pretty much the

673
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 1: same as a high fiber, high protein diet, but works

674
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: a lot faster. And when I look at the outcomes, sure,

675
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 1: but it falls into that whole category where there isn't

676
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 1: any education around it, right, So you'll get people on it,

677
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 1: And I've worked with some who, like one was a

678
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: nurse who was involved in the research and she was overweight,

679
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, if you're involved in the there's

680
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: a big trials and why didn't you get on it.

681
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: So she got on it, and in the US culture,

682
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: right of the insurance companies, she went to go get

683
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: a renewal and they're like, wait a second, you weren't

684
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: pre authorized to be on this. So then she went

685
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: to go to pre authorization but she lost enough weight

686
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: that she didn't qualify. Shit, So then she came off

687
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: it because she couldn't get it and regained all this

688
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: weight and was freaking out. She's like, what because no

689
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: one educated her on the incredible amount of lean mass

690
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: you lose in this weightless yeah, right, and how important

691
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: that is for maintaining menabolic health. So what I find

692
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: really frustrating with the whole Ozmpic thing. One we have

693
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: the vanity pounds that people want to lose. Two for

694
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: individuals who really do need it and want to go

695
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 1: down that route, there also needs to be the education

696
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: of what kinds of exercise they need to do to

697
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 1: maintain lean mass and bone health.

698
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 2: One hundred percent gott to be doing resistance training on

699
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 2: this stuff, right.

700
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: So I always bring it back to if you remember

701
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: that movie Wally that came out like twenty twelve, It

702
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: was a little robot. Okay, So there's a little robot

703
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 1: and he escapes and he gets into the human world.

704
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 1: And when he gets into the human world, all the

705
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: humans are laying down on these floating platforms looking at

706
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: a screen, completely oblivious to anything is around them, and

707
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: Wally accidentally hits one and this guy falls off and

708
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 1: he suddenly looks up and around, but he cannot stand

709
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 1: up because he's been floating and he's so overese and

710
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: doesn't have any lean mass. He cannot stand up, so

711
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: the little robot has to help him. Macabon's platform. I

712
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,399
Speaker 1: like that is going to be the ozimbic, right. They're

713
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: going to lose weight, but they're not going to have

714
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: the lean mass for true function. So as an exercise physiologist,

715
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 1: you know, we need to teach people how to train

716
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: well while they're on it, so then when they can

717
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 1: and want to get off it, they can.

718
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, It's like the yu Yo dieting. Right. They

719
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 2: lose a hypow it, but they'll lose water first, then muscle,

720
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 2: lean mass, including bone sometimes, and then they'll lose some

721
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 2: fat and then when they know it's not sustainable, they

722
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 2: put it back on. The water comes back on, all

723
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 2: the fat comes on, an extra fat, and then nan

724
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,399
Speaker 2: muscle doesn't come back, and then they're back to their

725
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 2: original WIP, but they're proportionally more fat less muscle, which

726
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 2: means their metabolic ret has declined even if they eat

727
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: the same calories that then put on extra WIT and

728
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 2: then they go again and diet. That's what I see

729
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 2: as the future of this stuff, right, But the pharmaceutical

730
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 2: industry are loving it, right because they go, well, the

731
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 2: solution is just staying on for life.

732
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: Oh, I know. That's why Copenhagen's whole economic profile has

733
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 1: just suddenly boomed because of was impact coming out of Denmark, right,

734
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 1: And so we're looking at how much money is circulating.

735
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: Of course, there's a gazillion jobs that have been come up.

736
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: There's research job, there's production jobs, and it all has

737
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 1: to do with this pharmaceutical company and the fact that

738
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: there's so many people want it and they don't know

739
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: how to get off it. So it's the idea of

740
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: staying on it for life.

741
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is a brilliant business model for your pharmacuticlt right, Dant. Now,

742
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 2: actually you mentioned something there. We're going to take another

743
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 2: little diversion. Soccopinia and osteocyclopinia, so loss of bone and

744
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 2: lost soycopinia's loss of muscle. I did a podcast the

745
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 2: other day. I was just discussing research paper. I had

746
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 2: two research papers in sycopenia, right, which traditionally, so for

747
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 2: the lay people, that's a loss of muscle where it

748
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 2: starts to impact your functional ability, and we typically thought

749
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 2: of it as a geriatric disease. Right, it kicks in

750
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 2: sixty five And then I read this research paper and

751
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 2: it was like seven percent of people in their forties

752
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 2: had syclopedia, And then another one just came out that

753
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 2: they reckon at least one in ten youths have got syclopedia.

754
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 2: I nearly fell off my freaking chair, Like.

755
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 4: The future for these people is pretty disastrous, right, Can

756
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 4: you just talk our listeners through the impact of that

757
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 4: of getting syclopedia early, even in your forties, But then, like,

758
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 4: what's the future looked like if you have sarcopenia in

759
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 4: your teams?

760
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,800
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, I'll start at the end and work my

761
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: way back. We know that muscle and leg strength is

762
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: directly correlated to cognition in older age, and they're saying

763
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: that with.

764
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 2: Script strength, right yeah, and grip strength yeah yeah.

765
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: Yep, And it has to do with muscle function really, right,

766
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: So the more muscle function you have, or the more

767
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: muscle you have, the stronger you are, and the better

768
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: metabolism you have it feeds forward to Brainhow So we're

769
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: looking at teens and we used to call them skinny fat, right,

770
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: but now we have to say sarcopenia. Still the same thing,

771
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: where on the outside you look nice and thin, but

772
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 1: on the inside you have the profile of a very sick,

773
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 1: metabolically sick, and obese person. Yeah, I think about the

774
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 1: lack of quality of life because we're going to start

775
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 1: seeing increased cognitive decline at an earlier stage. We're going

776
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: to see an increase in all of our metabolic burden

777
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,720
Speaker 1: diseases on the public health care systems, you know, depending

778
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 1: on where you are, insurance company or not, lack of funding.

779
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: We're going to see an increase uptake of more drugs, to.

780
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 2: More drugs, and then more drugs for the secondary side

781
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 2: effects of the primary drugs.

782
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 1: Right, exactly, all of the things. This is cascade that

783
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: is starting earlier and earlier. And I'm like, well, maybe

784
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: it's Mother Nature coming in and going to kill us off, right,

785
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: because we're killing the planet. But in all regards, it's

786
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: like humanity is not being stressed in the way that

787
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: it needs to be. Well, I should say Western society humanity,

788
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: because if we think about the whole world in itself,

789
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: there's this incredible disconnect of everyone is there's so much

790
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: food available, but we see everyone is malnourished. We have

791
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: malnourishment with obesity, and we have malnourishment from lack of

792
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: calorie availability. But when we look at the health concern

793
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 1: that come with malnourishment and obesity, it's so much worse

794
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: than the health concerns that come with malnourishment from lack

795
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,800
Speaker 1: of calories, because with the lack of calories, we're still

796
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: able to have better insulin control, you know, we have

797
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: more movement for brain health, we have the availability to

798
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: maintain a better body composition because of the movement and

799
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: activity needed to find the calories. But when we have

800
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: the malnourishment with obesity, we're just having this cascade and

801
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 1: wide problem of metabolic syndrome or brain health, cognitive dysfunction,

802
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: or bone density. And both men and women. Osteoporosis is

803
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 1: not just a woman's disease. We're seeing significant increase in men,

804
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 1: younger men at that too. And then the biggest thing

805
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: when I tell men is like also low testostera, and

806
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,879
Speaker 1: no one wants to really acknowledge that, But we look

807
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: at the norms for iron and hormone function, the low

808
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 1: end of normal has shifted where things like iron needs

809
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: to be fifty for Fairton, it's now down to fifteen.

810
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 1: Because we're having a sicker and sicker population. So the

811
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: norms are being.

812
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 2: Known to dropping. Jesus Christ.

813
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,399
Speaker 1: So when we try to get someone to get help, right,

814
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: but you're in the low end of.

815
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 2: Normal, normal, which twenty years ago was shit us right. Yeah, yeah,

816
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 2: And that's what a lot of people don't understand is

817
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 2: those blood tests are based on the norms of the population,

818
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 2: so they will shift over time as we get worse.

819
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 2: But that was a beautiful description of what the future

820
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 2: looks like for somebody who's getting syclopedia early because, as

821
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 2: you said, metabolic dysfunction, and then because their muscles don't

822
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 2: work well to support them, they do less and less

823
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 2: physical activity. Then they put on we it. Then they're

824
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 2: going to end up on a zempic, right, and then

825
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 2: you know, the whole thing gets worse. And Jesus Christ,

826
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 2: if you're on a zempic in your twenties, oh my god.

827
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 2: The future. The future does not look bride right, it

828
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 2: really doesn't. And I don't think we can Actually one

829
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 2: other thing, I've read a research paper just today that

830
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 2: fifty percent of autism spectrum disorder is attributable to maternal

831
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 2: obesity and during pregnancy fifty percent, And it's something like

832
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 2: thirty percent of ADHD, Right, I believe it's attributable to

833
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 2: obesity during pregnancy, and so like this is just it's

834
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 2: that cascade that you talked about, right, is just there's

835
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 2: unintended consequences freaking left, right and center, isn't there?

836
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was doing a pregnancy lecture when I was pregnant,

837
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 1: so a while ago. I was showing the research that

838
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: was coming out then about how you shouldn't be afraid

839
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: to exercise, even at a higher intensity because of the

840
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: blood flow diversion that occurs at the uterus and the placenta,

841
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,760
Speaker 1: Because when you stop exercising, it's a signal to increase

842
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: the vascularization of the placenta, which improves the metabolic function

843
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 1: to and from the womb, which increases the baby's health

844
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: status as it's growing and developing, and also causes genetic

845
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 1: change or expression, you know, the epigen.

846
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 2: Cresha to.

847
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 1: More of a lean childhood into lean adults. So good

848
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: for the mom as she is pregnant, to help with

849
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: preclamsia and you know, not gaining a lot of weight

850
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,839
Speaker 1: and mental stability and all the things that we want

851
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: exercise for. But we need to disseminate it down that

852
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 1: exercise stress is incredibly beneficial for the developing fetus with

853
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 1: regards to after it's born and how it progresses through life.

854
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 2: Awesome. Just so is that some people may have just

855
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 2: kind of missed that with the terminology. So for the listeners,

856
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:08,760
Speaker 2: So genetic changes obviously are to do with your genes,

857
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 2: but then the epigenome sits above the genes. I like

858
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 2: to describe it as as genes are the hardware. Epigenomes

859
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 2: the software that tells the genes how they operate it.

860
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,280
Speaker 2: And we know from way back the Dutch hunger study

861
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 2: in the was it the First World War the Second

862
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 2: World War that the stee it the physical health state

863
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 2: of the parents then saying signals to the genes of

864
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 2: that unborn fetus that then continue to express through life

865
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 2: and can massively affect their health trajectory through life. So

866
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 2: that whole thing, and I think there's two sides of

867
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 2: the coin. There is that being OBEs is creating epigenetic

868
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 2: changes that predispose not just for per metabolic health, but

869
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 2: now also auto suspection of the sort of idiot. But

870
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,399
Speaker 2: the flip side of that, if you're as you're saying,

871
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 2: if you're exercizing regularly, you're then sending signals to that

872
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 2: fetus for its change to operate in a way that

873
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:08,919
Speaker 2: it will be healthier throughout its life.

874
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 1: Yes, more stress resilient. It comes down to the stress

875
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 1: resilience and how your genes are are being trained to

876
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 1: be super stress resilient.

877
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,399
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and that's why I wrote a book called

878
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 2: Death by Comfort while modern life is killing us and

879
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,399
Speaker 2: what we need to do about it. Ye, yes, that's

880
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 2: the fun. Hey, everybody. At the risk of making everybody

881
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 2: very grumpy, This is the end of part one of

882
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 2: the podcast.

883
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 5: Because there was just so much information in this, we're

884
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 5: going to split it into two, so make sure you

885
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 5: tune in next week where there's lots of extra information

886
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 5: and heaps of practical advice from doctor Stacey Simms.

887
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:49,879
Speaker 2: Catch you next time.