1 00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Appoche production. 2 00:00:14,681 --> 00:00:17,401 Speaker 2: Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand. I'm your host, 3 00:00:17,401 --> 00:00:21,521 Speaker 2: Adam Shand. Imagine you're the victim of a random crime 4 00:00:21,561 --> 00:00:25,561 Speaker 2: of violence, which is, sadly in Australia's capital cities are 5 00:00:25,561 --> 00:00:27,401 Speaker 2: pretty regular event these days. 6 00:00:28,281 --> 00:00:31,241 Speaker 3: A man bashed while walking home from a train station. 7 00:00:31,841 --> 00:00:36,001 Speaker 3: Police say the attack appears completely random. 8 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: What will be the long term effects on you? 9 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:39,881 Speaker 4: How will that change your life? 10 00:00:40,641 --> 00:00:45,521 Speaker 5: Victims of unprovoked assaults often suffer ongoing psychological trauma long 11 00:00:45,561 --> 00:00:46,801 Speaker 5: after physical injuries. 12 00:00:46,881 --> 00:00:51,881 Speaker 2: Here, perceptions of safety and security are being destroyed by 13 00:00:51,881 --> 00:00:55,561 Speaker 2: the reality that you can be attacked and seriously injured 14 00:00:55,801 --> 00:00:58,721 Speaker 2: by someone you don't know, simply because you're in the 15 00:00:58,761 --> 00:01:00,921 Speaker 2: wrong place at the wrong time. 16 00:01:01,561 --> 00:01:05,561 Speaker 3: Police say groups of youths have targeted strangers that trains, 17 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,481 Speaker 3: attacking simply for the thrill of violence. 18 00:01:09,961 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 2: My guest today knows exactly how that feels. A former 19 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 2: colleague from Radio six PR in Perth, newsreader Lance White 20 00:01:18,441 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 2: was a victim of a serious and unprovoked attack thirteen 21 00:01:22,121 --> 00:01:26,121 Speaker 2: years ago at a suburban railway station, Beaten. 22 00:01:25,881 --> 00:01:30,161 Speaker 3: By multiple attackers and left bleeding at the scene. 23 00:01:30,761 --> 00:01:32,881 Speaker 2: He was set upon by a group of young men 24 00:01:33,041 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: who just wanted to bash someone anyone. The offenders have 25 00:01:38,121 --> 00:01:42,001 Speaker 2: never been brought to justice, despite the police having CCTV 26 00:01:42,081 --> 00:01:46,801 Speaker 2: images and a detailed description. There's also a twist in 27 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,721 Speaker 2: this story where the victim becomes a suspect in another 28 00:01:50,801 --> 00:01:56,041 Speaker 2: crime because of DNA. For Lance White, this bizarre twist 29 00:01:56,121 --> 00:01:59,681 Speaker 2: has prolonged and deepened his trauma. I caught up with 30 00:01:59,761 --> 00:02:03,281 Speaker 2: Lance recently to discuss this story, which really is a 31 00:02:03,361 --> 00:02:05,241 Speaker 2: cautionary tale for our time. 32 00:02:08,481 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 6: Las. 33 00:02:09,041 --> 00:02:11,161 Speaker 1: It is so good to see. I'm seri you sayce 34 00:02:11,241 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: Perth six PR. 35 00:02:12,761 --> 00:02:14,561 Speaker 6: We go a long way back, don't we. 36 00:02:14,561 --> 00:02:16,921 Speaker 1: We do we do? It's what do you do these days? 37 00:02:17,321 --> 00:02:18,441 Speaker 6: Absolutely nothing. 38 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,601 Speaker 5: I've got my little sleeping bag here with me and 39 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 5: I'm out of radio and just wondering. 40 00:02:24,001 --> 00:02:26,041 Speaker 6: What's going to come next. Yeah, right enough, But you're 41 00:02:26,081 --> 00:02:26,761 Speaker 6: still living with. 42 00:02:26,721 --> 00:02:29,321 Speaker 1: The after effects of that incident out several years ago. 43 00:02:29,721 --> 00:02:31,561 Speaker 1: Yeah over in Western straight, tell me what happened? 44 00:02:31,921 --> 00:02:32,321 Speaker 6: Okay. 45 00:02:32,401 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 5: So going back to twenty twelve where we got six PR, 46 00:02:36,401 --> 00:02:40,521 Speaker 5: it was until twenty seventeen, okay, so this is a 47 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,841 Speaker 5: bit before you got there. So it's three News Saturday 48 00:02:43,881 --> 00:02:45,881 Speaker 5: night at six PR on the way home on the 49 00:02:45,921 --> 00:02:51,041 Speaker 5: train from Wellington, street to Glendalow station, and while I 50 00:02:51,081 --> 00:02:53,001 Speaker 5: was on the train that there was a big ruckus 51 00:02:53,481 --> 00:02:56,521 Speaker 5: and somebody who had been closet on the train. But 52 00:02:56,601 --> 00:02:58,761 Speaker 5: the person, the victim, Obbert, didn't want to take it 53 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,041 Speaker 5: any further. So there was about four years who got 54 00:03:02,201 --> 00:03:05,481 Speaker 5: kicked off the train by the guards and I haven't 55 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,281 Speaker 5: been getting off at the same station with all of them. 56 00:03:09,841 --> 00:03:12,921 Speaker 5: They went at Glendalow's station. It's on the upper level 57 00:03:12,921 --> 00:03:15,601 Speaker 5: of the train line. The street level is one level 58 00:03:15,641 --> 00:03:17,161 Speaker 5: down below. So I thought, I'll just wait at the 59 00:03:17,201 --> 00:03:19,801 Speaker 5: platform till they go, till things settle down. 60 00:03:20,721 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 6: Got on the escalator to go down, and sure enough, 61 00:03:23,561 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 6: these proof. 62 00:03:24,921 --> 00:03:26,881 Speaker 5: Of views are waiting at the bottom and I'll go, 63 00:03:27,001 --> 00:03:29,721 Speaker 5: oh no. So we get to the bottom of the escalator. 64 00:03:30,721 --> 00:03:33,201 Speaker 5: I'm walking out towards the street, trying not to make 65 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:37,001 Speaker 5: eye contact with them, and one of them says to me, 66 00:03:37,201 --> 00:03:40,441 Speaker 5: are you racist? And I said, no, mate, I'm just 67 00:03:40,921 --> 00:03:43,681 Speaker 5: heading home. Continued trying not to make eye contact, kept 68 00:03:43,721 --> 00:03:47,601 Speaker 5: walking and I just cleared the outside of the station, 69 00:03:48,121 --> 00:03:49,841 Speaker 5: felt this target on the back. 70 00:03:49,601 --> 00:03:51,681 Speaker 6: Of my shirt, right in the middle of my back. 71 00:03:52,201 --> 00:03:54,281 Speaker 5: One of them swung me around, punched me as hard 72 00:03:54,281 --> 00:03:57,761 Speaker 5: as he could in the left eye, and then it 73 00:03:57,881 --> 00:04:00,281 Speaker 5: just started so just being swung around. 74 00:04:01,001 --> 00:04:02,961 Speaker 6: It just seemed to be one main attacker, but yet 75 00:04:03,041 --> 00:04:06,601 Speaker 6: three events made with him. It kind of came. 76 00:04:06,441 --> 00:04:09,681 Speaker 5: To an end where there's a concrete wall at street 77 00:04:09,761 --> 00:04:12,801 Speaker 5: level at Glendalow training station which has sort of got 78 00:04:12,801 --> 00:04:17,521 Speaker 5: it's a jagged edge concrete scene, and they got me 79 00:04:17,601 --> 00:04:19,481 Speaker 5: up against back and then there was one sort of 80 00:04:19,641 --> 00:04:21,761 Speaker 5: final punch that bland in the left eye and my 81 00:04:22,681 --> 00:04:24,721 Speaker 5: gash to the back of my head opened with the 82 00:04:24,721 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 5: skin on the back of my head. I got some 83 00:04:27,761 --> 00:04:32,361 Speaker 5: sort of cuts to the forehead and I realized at 84 00:04:32,401 --> 00:04:34,601 Speaker 5: that point that there was pretty much no way out 85 00:04:34,601 --> 00:04:37,801 Speaker 5: of this because I was outnumbered and they're more powerful 86 00:04:37,841 --> 00:04:42,281 Speaker 5: than me. And you have that realization in your mind, 87 00:04:42,961 --> 00:04:44,161 Speaker 5: I think I'm going to die. 88 00:04:44,241 --> 00:04:46,201 Speaker 6: And I've heard this from a lot of people who've 89 00:04:46,201 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 6: been attacked. 90 00:04:47,521 --> 00:04:49,441 Speaker 5: The meuse It's a common thing I keep hearing over 91 00:04:49,481 --> 00:04:52,521 Speaker 5: and over again, and that seems to trigger a lot 92 00:04:52,521 --> 00:04:53,841 Speaker 5: of the trauma that goes on. 93 00:04:54,481 --> 00:04:57,201 Speaker 7: That feeling like you're going to die. And you said 94 00:04:57,201 --> 00:04:59,001 Speaker 7: that a lot of people feel that way. I think 95 00:04:59,001 --> 00:05:03,241 Speaker 7: that's absolutely true. Yes, And as I see you recount 96 00:05:03,281 --> 00:05:07,521 Speaker 7: this story. I can feel your visceral response to that moment. 97 00:05:07,561 --> 00:05:09,161 Speaker 7: It's still very real for you, isn't it. 98 00:05:09,241 --> 00:05:14,001 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's the only part of what happened that is 99 00:05:14,041 --> 00:05:17,281 Speaker 5: with me there every day, even this last year, now 100 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,321 Speaker 5: that I've got some distance from radio, I was thoroughly 101 00:05:19,401 --> 00:05:22,041 Speaker 5: spent a lot of time this last year just trying 102 00:05:22,041 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 5: to sort of make some more sense of it, see 103 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,761 Speaker 5: if I can speed up the recovery. 104 00:05:27,521 --> 00:05:32,721 Speaker 6: And for most of the bashing, I'm okay with that. 105 00:05:32,801 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 5: Now it's just this last punch and the reason why 106 00:05:34,641 --> 00:05:37,321 Speaker 5: I'm okay with the rest of the bashing. It is 107 00:05:37,761 --> 00:05:40,921 Speaker 5: actually like another incident that I had when I was 108 00:05:40,961 --> 00:05:42,881 Speaker 5: coming into the six PR. I was waiting at a 109 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,921 Speaker 5: bus stop in Mainstream Bolton Park and a guy had 110 00:05:46,961 --> 00:05:50,441 Speaker 5: just turned out and done a liquor store robbery and 111 00:05:50,801 --> 00:05:52,481 Speaker 5: came up to me and said you want to have 112 00:05:52,481 --> 00:05:54,281 Speaker 5: a go, mate, And I said no, I'm just waiting 113 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,241 Speaker 5: in for the bus and punched me as hard as 114 00:05:56,281 --> 00:05:58,841 Speaker 5: you could in the right eye. I managed to keep 115 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 5: my feet, I didn't go down on the back of 116 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,081 Speaker 5: my head. Cops got him a short time later and 117 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 5: find one thousand dollars for a common assault in the 118 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,481 Speaker 5: court the next day. But that incident in Mainstry didn't 119 00:06:11,521 --> 00:06:13,361 Speaker 5: bother me, and it hasn't bothered me, And there's been 120 00:06:13,361 --> 00:06:16,801 Speaker 5: other incidents that haven't bothered me. The glendalo Station one did, 121 00:06:16,961 --> 00:06:20,841 Speaker 5: so I've been able to match what happened for most 122 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,881 Speaker 5: of the Glendalow attack with the other incidents cleaning on 123 00:06:23,961 --> 00:06:27,681 Speaker 5: that this year that haven't bothered me. And just that 124 00:06:27,841 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 5: one punt for my head going back against that just 125 00:06:32,201 --> 00:06:36,881 Speaker 5: totally reverberated through my mind, every part of my be 126 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 5: and that's what still stays with me. 127 00:06:41,121 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 6: Anyway. 128 00:06:41,481 --> 00:06:44,041 Speaker 5: At that point, I realized, if I just give him 129 00:06:44,041 --> 00:06:47,601 Speaker 5: whatever money did he wants. One of the attackers actually 130 00:06:47,601 --> 00:06:50,601 Speaker 5: said stop, and that seemed to count things down. 131 00:06:50,841 --> 00:06:54,241 Speaker 6: But he reached into my wallet, got my five. 132 00:06:54,041 --> 00:06:56,161 Speaker 5: Dollars out that I had in there, and they lived 133 00:06:56,161 --> 00:06:59,361 Speaker 5: pretty happily and walked up the street. And I can't 134 00:06:59,521 --> 00:07:04,001 Speaker 5: describe the feeling of relief that I'm my goodness, I've 135 00:07:04,041 --> 00:07:07,121 Speaker 5: got out of this. You just go through so many 136 00:07:07,161 --> 00:07:11,401 Speaker 5: extreme abnormal emotions all at once. 137 00:07:11,441 --> 00:07:13,561 Speaker 6: The feeling of disorientation. 138 00:07:12,881 --> 00:07:16,401 Speaker 5: While you're being thrown around, the intensity of the hit 139 00:07:16,481 --> 00:07:20,401 Speaker 5: on the head, and that feeling of probably went around, 140 00:07:20,481 --> 00:07:26,201 Speaker 5: called cops on payphone. Yeah, you you're on the phone. 141 00:07:26,241 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 5: You look back and see the trail of blood coming 142 00:07:28,761 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 5: back from where you were. Some pool bathard in trans 143 00:07:32,881 --> 00:07:35,761 Speaker 5: Earth had to clean up. But you got me to 144 00:07:36,361 --> 00:07:40,081 Speaker 5: Charles Garden the hospital in the ambulance and just remember 145 00:07:40,081 --> 00:07:42,721 Speaker 5: going back in the in the ambulance. There were noticed 146 00:07:42,721 --> 00:07:45,481 Speaker 5: so many speed hunts in my life here. So we 147 00:07:45,761 --> 00:07:47,441 Speaker 5: get to hospital. Had a bit of a panic attack 148 00:07:47,481 --> 00:07:50,961 Speaker 5: at the hospital when because they really when they leave 149 00:07:51,001 --> 00:07:52,481 Speaker 5: you at Tacon while of the game dance, people do 150 00:07:52,561 --> 00:07:54,801 Speaker 5: the handover to the hospital staff and I just felt 151 00:07:54,841 --> 00:07:56,601 Speaker 5: abandoned and something I couldn't. 152 00:07:56,281 --> 00:07:59,841 Speaker 6: Breathe, and it's like and then in your you're in 153 00:07:59,841 --> 00:08:00,841 Speaker 6: the hospital. 154 00:08:00,801 --> 00:08:03,761 Speaker 5: Having great care, being taken obviously by the nurses, and 155 00:08:04,161 --> 00:08:05,681 Speaker 5: all thoughts about the word stuff. 156 00:08:06,241 --> 00:08:09,881 Speaker 1: So you call police which station, I don't know. 157 00:08:09,801 --> 00:08:11,801 Speaker 5: Which station they came from, but they were on the 158 00:08:11,841 --> 00:08:14,721 Speaker 5: scene pretty quickly and discorded me to hospital. It was 159 00:08:14,761 --> 00:08:17,521 Speaker 5: mirrorbook and detectives who later took up the investigation. 160 00:08:17,681 --> 00:08:19,041 Speaker 6: But I don't know if. 161 00:08:18,961 --> 00:08:21,321 Speaker 7: You're able to give a good description of your attackers. 162 00:08:21,361 --> 00:08:23,241 Speaker 7: I believe they're indigenous youth, is that correct? 163 00:08:24,201 --> 00:08:28,401 Speaker 5: They are of African descent, so it was dark, it 164 00:08:28,481 --> 00:08:32,041 Speaker 5: was out of camera range. But the authority transfers and 165 00:08:32,081 --> 00:08:36,001 Speaker 5: the police they had delusion of them going past the 166 00:08:36,041 --> 00:08:38,961 Speaker 5: cameras off the train. But the spot when batching happened, 167 00:08:39,081 --> 00:08:42,361 Speaker 5: it wasn't captured on video to my knowledge. 168 00:08:42,401 --> 00:08:44,881 Speaker 6: There was a car yard optic. I don't know. Police 169 00:08:44,921 --> 00:08:47,961 Speaker 6: try to access the car yard video of what happened. 170 00:08:48,041 --> 00:08:50,201 Speaker 1: Okay, so they've got video of these individuals. 171 00:08:50,201 --> 00:08:52,601 Speaker 7: There plenty of leads from mirror booker detectives to follow 172 00:08:52,601 --> 00:08:53,281 Speaker 7: what happened next. 173 00:08:53,841 --> 00:08:57,481 Speaker 6: Okay, so we do the hospital run. 174 00:08:57,641 --> 00:09:03,481 Speaker 5: The police take my clothes at the hospital for forensic analysis. 175 00:09:04,241 --> 00:09:07,041 Speaker 5: I'm standing out in front of Charli Gardener's hospital and 176 00:09:07,081 --> 00:09:11,081 Speaker 5: my hospital Breens to get a tax you home contacted 177 00:09:11,121 --> 00:09:13,841 Speaker 5: work the great Ron timing and I'm not going to 178 00:09:13,841 --> 00:09:15,841 Speaker 5: be in for a while. So I'm pretty shaken up 179 00:09:15,961 --> 00:09:19,401 Speaker 5: and had about a week and a half off work 180 00:09:19,481 --> 00:09:22,721 Speaker 5: and I did actually go into six PR Monday. I 181 00:09:22,721 --> 00:09:24,761 Speaker 5: thought it so this happened on the Saturday night. By 182 00:09:24,801 --> 00:09:26,641 Speaker 5: the Monday, I thought, I've got to get back on 183 00:09:26,681 --> 00:09:30,001 Speaker 5: the train. Do the commit to work, because you've got 184 00:09:30,041 --> 00:09:32,761 Speaker 5: to get back on the horse. And I remember going 185 00:09:32,801 --> 00:09:36,721 Speaker 5: back to Glendalow's station, feeling extremely self conscious with my 186 00:09:36,801 --> 00:09:41,641 Speaker 5: black eyes, and went into work and arrived there and 187 00:09:41,681 --> 00:09:43,601 Speaker 5: I think I've got a few double takes from the 188 00:09:43,801 --> 00:09:46,481 Speaker 5: John Nichols and John Tlvander and all the other people 189 00:09:46,481 --> 00:09:48,801 Speaker 5: who were worked with me, But I had to do 190 00:09:48,921 --> 00:09:51,121 Speaker 5: the journey back in straight away. 191 00:09:51,721 --> 00:09:53,641 Speaker 7: You got it in your living and it's important, as 192 00:09:53,681 --> 00:09:56,201 Speaker 7: you say not to, I guess give in to the 193 00:09:56,241 --> 00:09:59,721 Speaker 7: trauma that there must be really enveloping. 194 00:09:59,241 --> 00:09:59,881 Speaker 6: You at this time. 195 00:10:00,681 --> 00:10:02,841 Speaker 5: As I spoke to a psychologist later on, you know, 196 00:10:02,921 --> 00:10:04,121 Speaker 5: it's all about control. 197 00:10:04,481 --> 00:10:06,361 Speaker 6: You've got to feel as a victim, but. 198 00:10:06,361 --> 00:10:09,361 Speaker 5: You're in control of certain controlled with a certain extent 199 00:10:10,001 --> 00:10:15,201 Speaker 5: is taken away from you. Your personal space is seriously invaded, 200 00:10:15,241 --> 00:10:18,841 Speaker 5: and that seems to. 201 00:10:17,521 --> 00:10:20,361 Speaker 6: Correlate with the level of trauma that you feel. 202 00:10:20,601 --> 00:10:24,161 Speaker 5: Many other incidents, or a handful of an incidents that 203 00:10:24,201 --> 00:10:27,761 Speaker 5: I've had that have been similar to that invaded in 204 00:10:27,761 --> 00:10:30,361 Speaker 5: my personal space, but nothing like this. 205 00:10:31,521 --> 00:10:32,241 Speaker 6: It's like the. 206 00:10:32,241 --> 00:10:35,361 Speaker 5: Difference between if you're a minor bingle in a car 207 00:10:35,401 --> 00:10:37,321 Speaker 5: park and a shopping center, Oh, that's a bit of 208 00:10:37,361 --> 00:10:40,681 Speaker 5: a nuisance, but if you're in a serious crash where 209 00:10:40,801 --> 00:10:43,081 Speaker 5: you lost the ability to be able to walk rps, 210 00:10:43,121 --> 00:10:46,081 Speaker 5: you put severe burns. That's much more an invasion of 211 00:10:46,121 --> 00:10:49,401 Speaker 5: personal space. And I'm just seeing so much in the 212 00:10:49,441 --> 00:10:52,841 Speaker 5: last few months, even with talking about the crime problem 213 00:10:52,921 --> 00:10:56,201 Speaker 5: around Miltne, that people are feeling like their personal space 214 00:10:56,321 --> 00:10:58,481 Speaker 5: is being invaded. And that seems to me to be 215 00:10:58,521 --> 00:11:03,321 Speaker 5: at the core of the start of trauma and going 216 00:11:03,401 --> 00:11:05,201 Speaker 5: up in the grades to you you get to that 217 00:11:05,241 --> 00:11:10,601 Speaker 5: point where this trauma has totally invaded you and changed 218 00:11:11,081 --> 00:11:15,121 Speaker 5: who you are, and you're so hyper vigilance. I remember 219 00:11:15,201 --> 00:11:18,881 Speaker 5: walking down Hay Street to six pr and this is 220 00:11:18,921 --> 00:11:23,161 Speaker 5: about a week later. You get all these weird sensations, 221 00:11:23,481 --> 00:11:26,481 Speaker 5: like I had to suddenly grab onto the top of 222 00:11:26,521 --> 00:11:29,561 Speaker 5: my head because I thought the top of my head 223 00:11:29,761 --> 00:11:33,241 Speaker 5: was being pulled apart, sort of my left side going left, 224 00:11:33,281 --> 00:11:35,961 Speaker 5: my right side going right, like it was a coconut 225 00:11:36,001 --> 00:11:39,561 Speaker 5: being broken, and you know it wasn't, but that's what 226 00:11:39,601 --> 00:11:40,561 Speaker 5: my brain was thinking. 227 00:11:40,681 --> 00:11:42,201 Speaker 6: It's just the effect of the concussion. 228 00:11:42,841 --> 00:11:44,841 Speaker 7: I was going to say, concussion, yeah, And were you 229 00:11:44,921 --> 00:11:46,241 Speaker 7: getting medical treatments through this? 230 00:11:46,241 --> 00:11:47,441 Speaker 6: By the way, No. 231 00:11:47,921 --> 00:11:50,841 Speaker 5: I got a little pamphlet from police about two or 232 00:11:51,401 --> 00:11:53,601 Speaker 5: the government two weeks later about are you a victim? 233 00:11:53,641 --> 00:11:54,081 Speaker 6: Of crime. 234 00:11:54,201 --> 00:11:56,281 Speaker 5: Well, you know, these are the people you can call. 235 00:11:57,081 --> 00:11:59,361 Speaker 5: You just don't know what's happening to you. You don't 236 00:11:59,401 --> 00:12:03,681 Speaker 5: know who to approach or things have changed, but you 237 00:12:03,761 --> 00:12:06,921 Speaker 5: think I'll just get beyond. You know, things at settled 238 00:12:06,961 --> 00:12:09,521 Speaker 5: out normally. You don't realize that, you know, this is 239 00:12:09,681 --> 00:12:11,961 Speaker 5: actually a life changing thing. You don't realize that till 240 00:12:12,001 --> 00:12:14,681 Speaker 5: a lot later, right, Yeah. 241 00:12:14,561 --> 00:12:18,201 Speaker 7: And I think a lot of the recovery and the 242 00:12:18,241 --> 00:12:21,201 Speaker 7: progress afterwards is dependent on what sort of service you 243 00:12:21,241 --> 00:12:22,001 Speaker 7: get from the police. 244 00:12:22,441 --> 00:12:24,401 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, how did that transpire? 245 00:12:24,641 --> 00:12:27,761 Speaker 5: Okay, so it would have been I think it was 246 00:12:27,801 --> 00:12:31,161 Speaker 5: about two weeks later. They called up and said, can 247 00:12:31,161 --> 00:12:32,761 Speaker 5: you come into memory book to detect. 248 00:12:32,521 --> 00:12:37,361 Speaker 6: His And they took my DNA so that they. 249 00:12:37,281 --> 00:12:41,881 Speaker 5: Can examine well without breaching all their investigative techniques. They 250 00:12:42,121 --> 00:12:43,801 Speaker 5: they can look at the clothing and they look at 251 00:12:43,841 --> 00:12:47,081 Speaker 5: items on us if they can find any DNA, and 252 00:12:47,481 --> 00:12:50,481 Speaker 5: they get your as the victims DNA so that they 253 00:12:50,481 --> 00:12:55,321 Speaker 5: can exclude my own DNA from whatever they find. So 254 00:12:55,521 --> 00:12:58,721 Speaker 5: that when I was told at the time that your 255 00:12:58,801 --> 00:13:01,721 Speaker 5: DNA just relates to this crime. And I remember covering 256 00:13:01,761 --> 00:13:06,321 Speaker 5: the story when they first introduced DNA legislation in Western Australia. No, 257 00:13:06,481 --> 00:13:10,601 Speaker 5: it will just be part of that crime when you 258 00:13:10,601 --> 00:13:13,121 Speaker 5: give your DNA sampling, it won't be linked any further 259 00:13:13,201 --> 00:13:16,401 Speaker 5: than that. And there was a big bating point at 260 00:13:16,401 --> 00:13:20,121 Speaker 5: the time and got through parliament and yeah, I remember 261 00:13:20,121 --> 00:13:23,921 Speaker 5: the detectives giving me my clothes back after they forensically 262 00:13:23,921 --> 00:13:27,721 Speaker 5: analyzed it, and the closes of coming in blood. 263 00:13:28,721 --> 00:13:31,641 Speaker 6: It's just a huge refindwer of what happens. 264 00:13:32,241 --> 00:13:33,561 Speaker 1: Taken back into that moment again. 265 00:13:33,641 --> 00:13:36,201 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and you have to tell your story in 266 00:13:36,321 --> 00:13:39,801 Speaker 5: so many different people from the attending police at the hospital, 267 00:13:40,721 --> 00:13:43,401 Speaker 5: the nurse is curious about, oh, what happened, So you 268 00:13:43,441 --> 00:13:45,241 Speaker 5: told the story again. Then you're going to tell the 269 00:13:46,001 --> 00:13:49,601 Speaker 5: detectives again what happened. But you can't just tell your 270 00:13:49,641 --> 00:13:52,881 Speaker 5: story once. But I'm talking it out is a way 271 00:13:53,081 --> 00:13:55,201 Speaker 5: of processing it, but it means reliving it. 272 00:13:55,241 --> 00:13:57,481 Speaker 6: And I've seen since then. 273 00:13:57,721 --> 00:14:00,321 Speaker 5: I think one of the things that makes something go 274 00:14:00,481 --> 00:14:04,601 Speaker 5: from a bad incident to trauma is when you go 275 00:14:04,641 --> 00:14:08,761 Speaker 5: to school and you hear what's being taught and clart 276 00:14:09,281 --> 00:14:13,081 Speaker 5: you're gett encouraged to go home and do homework and 277 00:14:13,121 --> 00:14:15,041 Speaker 5: review it. And it's the reviewing of it which what 278 00:14:15,241 --> 00:14:17,241 Speaker 5: keeps it in your memory. What are people to learn 279 00:14:17,241 --> 00:14:20,201 Speaker 5: at school. I think it's the same thing in trauma. 280 00:14:20,281 --> 00:14:24,201 Speaker 5: Because you're reliving it over and over again, it's making 281 00:14:24,241 --> 00:14:27,881 Speaker 5: it permanent in your mind. So I don't know how 282 00:14:27,921 --> 00:14:30,041 Speaker 5: you get around that in being able to try and 283 00:14:30,081 --> 00:14:35,281 Speaker 5: think through the issue and resolver at the time and rehashing. 284 00:14:34,841 --> 00:14:37,481 Speaker 6: It all the time, you know, whether it's later going 285 00:14:37,521 --> 00:14:38,241 Speaker 6: to quart or whatever. 286 00:14:38,481 --> 00:14:40,121 Speaker 1: I think the past still exists. 287 00:14:40,121 --> 00:14:42,921 Speaker 7: That's my area around the relativity and so forth, you know, 288 00:14:43,041 --> 00:14:45,921 Speaker 7: the space time continuum. I think the past does exist 289 00:14:46,241 --> 00:14:48,481 Speaker 7: in our minds, particularly when we think about it all 290 00:14:48,481 --> 00:14:51,241 Speaker 7: the time, and it's very real, and it brings back 291 00:14:51,561 --> 00:14:56,241 Speaker 7: sensory memories of the moment, smells, sounds, this type of thing. 292 00:14:56,281 --> 00:14:58,561 Speaker 1: It's extremely real. I think this is what informs trauma, 293 00:14:58,601 --> 00:14:59,801 Speaker 1: the reality of these memories. 294 00:14:59,881 --> 00:15:01,721 Speaker 5: Yeah, I get your old sensation and it's like it's 295 00:15:01,761 --> 00:15:04,201 Speaker 5: sort of like an echo where you suddenly feel like 296 00:15:04,281 --> 00:15:07,441 Speaker 5: you act in the head a little bit, or even 297 00:15:08,401 --> 00:15:10,641 Speaker 5: The weird thing is that sometimes you want to sit 298 00:15:10,761 --> 00:15:14,001 Speaker 5: yourself in the head to try and recreate the moment 299 00:15:14,081 --> 00:15:17,401 Speaker 5: and resolve it. This is all the weird stuff that 300 00:15:17,481 --> 00:15:19,121 Speaker 5: if you've been through a trauma, that you go through 301 00:15:19,161 --> 00:15:22,881 Speaker 5: your mind there strange things to try and resolve the situation, 302 00:15:23,001 --> 00:15:27,001 Speaker 5: and it's outside the normal if your previous existence, and 303 00:15:27,001 --> 00:15:30,361 Speaker 5: you just feel like real weirdo when you're thinking of 304 00:15:30,401 --> 00:15:33,601 Speaker 5: these count of things and you can't tell your work 305 00:15:33,641 --> 00:15:37,121 Speaker 5: colleagues or you. 306 00:15:35,761 --> 00:15:38,761 Speaker 6: You're made too because it's just so far out to here. 307 00:15:40,441 --> 00:15:42,321 Speaker 7: And you want to go back to normal, and you 308 00:15:42,361 --> 00:15:43,761 Speaker 7: don't want us to come in there as the guy 309 00:15:43,801 --> 00:15:47,241 Speaker 7: who's got the trauma, the guy who's got the burden. 310 00:15:47,321 --> 00:15:48,921 Speaker 1: You know, you want to be able to be functional again. 311 00:15:48,961 --> 00:15:50,681 Speaker 1: I can see how that operates. 312 00:15:50,681 --> 00:15:53,201 Speaker 7: And you know, obviously, mobble out there you've gone through 313 00:15:53,241 --> 00:15:55,241 Speaker 7: exactly what you've gone through. I love to hear from them, 314 00:15:55,281 --> 00:15:57,361 Speaker 7: by the way, Adam chand Wright at gmail dot com. 315 00:15:57,441 --> 00:15:59,561 Speaker 7: And there's a lot of people out there who will 316 00:15:59,601 --> 00:16:02,241 Speaker 7: walking around just like you. And this is the importance 317 00:16:02,241 --> 00:16:06,801 Speaker 7: of this discussion. How important was it to your recovery 318 00:16:06,881 --> 00:16:09,561 Speaker 7: that justice be done somehow? Was that part of your thinking? 319 00:16:10,921 --> 00:16:15,601 Speaker 5: I thought that the bloke who was the main attacker 320 00:16:15,881 --> 00:16:16,761 Speaker 5: could kill someone. 321 00:16:17,001 --> 00:16:19,361 Speaker 6: I had no doubt about that. But this was one 322 00:16:19,481 --> 00:16:21,001 Speaker 6: savage bloke. 323 00:16:21,681 --> 00:16:24,881 Speaker 5: So I thought from that perspective that I was surprised 324 00:16:25,921 --> 00:16:29,721 Speaker 5: that there wasn't a greater effort put into the investigation, 325 00:16:29,841 --> 00:16:32,161 Speaker 5: knowing the direct threat. And it was at the time 326 00:16:32,201 --> 00:16:34,601 Speaker 5: where we were going through this whole thing of the 327 00:16:34,761 --> 00:16:39,161 Speaker 5: terrorism threat. If you see something, you say something. This 328 00:16:39,241 --> 00:16:43,081 Speaker 5: is something that actually happened on our streets. And I 329 00:16:43,161 --> 00:16:46,401 Speaker 5: was kind of expecting, all right, I've got to Monday. 330 00:16:46,441 --> 00:16:49,761 Speaker 5: I thought maybe the news services might run it, you know, 331 00:16:50,041 --> 00:16:53,201 Speaker 5: to you know, blood gets blash bashed in mindled station 332 00:16:53,321 --> 00:16:57,041 Speaker 5: that usually gets to run and didn't. I thought TV 333 00:16:57,201 --> 00:16:59,321 Speaker 5: might be onto it. I did find out later that 334 00:16:59,961 --> 00:17:04,401 Speaker 5: TV station's RAMSISPR and we're told that I wasn't interested 335 00:17:04,441 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 5: in talking. 336 00:17:05,801 --> 00:17:09,161 Speaker 6: They sp for you. They spoke for me, which I 337 00:17:09,201 --> 00:17:10,641 Speaker 6: was surprised by that. Bay. 338 00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 5: I did do an interview on the Monday. I was 339 00:17:13,961 --> 00:17:16,961 Speaker 5: talking to doing with the Perth Paul Murray an interview 340 00:17:17,001 --> 00:17:17,321 Speaker 5: on air. 341 00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:18,841 Speaker 6: But if there's. 342 00:17:18,681 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 5: Any audio still existing of that, I wasn't making a 343 00:17:21,681 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 5: heck of a lot of sense. 344 00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:25,721 Speaker 6: I was talking on there can cast. 345 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,561 Speaker 5: I was saying that I really feel sorry for these 346 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,281 Speaker 5: blokes for feeling that they had to attack someone because 347 00:17:32,321 --> 00:17:35,241 Speaker 5: they felt on the receiving end of racism. 348 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: So you're too nice of blow. That's the problem here. 349 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,321 Speaker 6: You have no way of thinking. 350 00:17:42,961 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 5: About something like this, You've never had to think about 351 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:49,161 Speaker 5: it before. There's no path to follow that you can 352 00:17:49,681 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 5: pull back from somewhere. Like I wasn't an angry person. 353 00:17:52,961 --> 00:17:57,201 Speaker 5: I wasn't a hateful person. It wasn't until I actually 354 00:17:57,241 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 5: got to the Mirror book and detectives and I was 355 00:17:59,241 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 5: trying out this line and I sort of felt sorry 356 00:18:01,961 --> 00:18:03,961 Speaker 5: for them, and the detectives said to me, look, there 357 00:18:03,961 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 5: are people who come from Africa to here that have 358 00:18:08,441 --> 00:18:11,441 Speaker 5: had a hard time in their country and they don't 359 00:18:11,481 --> 00:18:14,241 Speaker 5: feel the need to be able to have to attack 360 00:18:14,281 --> 00:18:14,761 Speaker 5: someone to. 361 00:18:14,681 --> 00:18:16,401 Speaker 6: Get it out of their system. 362 00:18:17,001 --> 00:18:20,961 Speaker 5: And that sort of helped me to think, oh, maybe 363 00:18:21,001 --> 00:18:23,401 Speaker 5: I should start a push and some blame to these 364 00:18:23,521 --> 00:18:26,841 Speaker 5: place because I just had no concept of what. 365 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:28,041 Speaker 1: I was dealing with now for sure. 366 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 7: And I think forgiveness is also a key element of 367 00:18:31,241 --> 00:18:33,721 Speaker 7: recovery as well, if you can take away that feeling 368 00:18:33,801 --> 00:18:35,561 Speaker 7: of anger and bitterness. Yeah, I mean, I think you're 369 00:18:35,561 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 7: going too far there, and I think, you know, the 370 00:18:37,481 --> 00:18:39,961 Speaker 7: detechnique was exactly right. We can talk about an African 371 00:18:40,001 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 7: crime problem, or we can talk about individuals within various 372 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,161 Speaker 7: communities who were dysfunctional who. 373 00:18:46,001 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 1: Think that randomly bashing people is okay. 374 00:18:49,001 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 7: The vast majority of the African communities and the Vietnamese 375 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:52,521 Speaker 7: and whoever else. 376 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 1: Want to mention, don't get involved in this. 377 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 5: You never ever hear of a white crime problem, and 378 00:18:58,761 --> 00:19:01,841 Speaker 5: this drives me nuts. And virtually every media release from 379 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:07,241 Speaker 5: police person whose community crime is Caucasian, we don't talk 380 00:19:07,281 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 5: about a white crime problem in this country. 381 00:19:10,041 --> 00:19:13,001 Speaker 1: We have a young man crime problems because. 382 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 5: In the other incidents where I was attacked, the bloke 383 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,761 Speaker 5: who did the liquor store robbery before punching me out 384 00:19:18,761 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 5: an Olphen Park, he was just a white, blonde hair blot. 385 00:19:23,561 --> 00:19:26,360 Speaker 5: The bloke had got me this year at the McDonald's 386 00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:28,321 Speaker 5: Intelimon has a bit off his face on drugs. Try 387 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,241 Speaker 5: to steal my bag and I got to when I 388 00:19:31,281 --> 00:19:33,241 Speaker 5: went to retrieve it got to kick in the. 389 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 6: Neck and chest. 390 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 5: But I was able to put into effect when this 391 00:19:38,921 --> 00:19:43,201 Speaker 5: year's incident happened. Everything I've learned, don't personalize it. It's 392 00:19:43,281 --> 00:19:46,521 Speaker 5: nothing to do with you. You're just random person with a 393 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,121 Speaker 5: random event that's happening. 394 00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 6: I treated it like that. I felt sore for a 395 00:19:50,921 --> 00:19:51,481 Speaker 6: couple of days. 396 00:19:52,001 --> 00:19:56,761 Speaker 5: It's a weekend for the injury, and by depersonalizing it, 397 00:19:56,761 --> 00:20:00,521 Speaker 5: it's just like just a polymic. Now it comes into 398 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,121 Speaker 5: that place of being an amusing incident that happened. 399 00:20:05,201 --> 00:20:07,801 Speaker 1: The crazy states. Someone is in in that moment to 400 00:20:07,921 --> 00:20:09,041 Speaker 1: randomly attack. 401 00:20:08,801 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 7: Somebody, and this is probably going to be one of 402 00:20:11,521 --> 00:20:15,321 Speaker 7: several incidents across this person's day and it's not going 403 00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 7: to end well for them. These are ways to rationalize it. 404 00:20:18,281 --> 00:20:21,041 Speaker 7: But you've still been attacked. And let's go back to 405 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:27,281 Speaker 7: the Glandelow incident. So detectives have got it and they've 406 00:20:27,281 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 7: done all the right things DNA samples and so and 407 00:20:29,721 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 7: so forth. 408 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 5: So I need ask the officer, Okay, so how are 409 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:34,481 Speaker 5: you going to follow this up? And his words were, 410 00:20:34,961 --> 00:20:37,001 Speaker 5: I'm night shoot in a couple of weeks, so we'll 411 00:20:37,041 --> 00:20:42,081 Speaker 5: go out and have a look. And from that reply 412 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:45,961 Speaker 5: to now, that's all I've gone directly from them. 413 00:20:45,961 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 6: I haven't heard from them since. 414 00:20:48,201 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 5: But a later incident, which I think we're going to 415 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,321 Speaker 5: go into, I was able to find out a little 416 00:20:52,321 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 5: bit indirectly about what happened with the police. 417 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,161 Speaker 7: But we've got in the interim, so they do nothing effectively, 418 00:20:59,241 --> 00:21:01,281 Speaker 7: or they don't tell you what they've done, and how 419 00:21:01,321 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 7: long it lapses before the next milestone in this story. 420 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 5: Okay, I was just throwing something else there which might 421 00:21:08,001 --> 00:21:09,921 Speaker 5: be of interest. The night I got back to six 422 00:21:09,961 --> 00:21:13,281 Speaker 5: Bigar so I think it was the Wednesday, week after 423 00:21:13,321 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 5: the attack, so it had about ten days. And got 424 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,441 Speaker 5: into the newsroom and I don't know how to put 425 00:21:20,481 --> 00:21:23,441 Speaker 5: a news bulletin together. It's just not in my hand. 426 00:21:23,721 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 5: You just do when you put a news bullets together, 427 00:21:25,961 --> 00:21:29,360 Speaker 5: get your weather, you get your intros and your outros, 428 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,041 Speaker 5: and you look through the stories of the day. 429 00:21:31,201 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 6: I'm sitting there. I didn't sell John. 430 00:21:34,441 --> 00:21:36,361 Speaker 5: Nichols or I think Amerew glen Cross was in there 431 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 5: two at the time that I can't remember how to 432 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:43,201 Speaker 5: put a bulletin together. So this is about I got 433 00:21:43,241 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 5: in at about five o'clock. 434 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 6: Or just before five o'clock. I'm sitting there going what 435 00:21:47,241 --> 00:21:47,721 Speaker 6: do I do. 436 00:21:48,521 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 5: So for the first couple of bulletins, I just read 437 00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:55,361 Speaker 5: some bulletins from earlier in the day, and about eight 438 00:21:55,521 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 5: thirty at night, it's just everything clicked back into place. 439 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,561 Speaker 5: It's like a part of my mind woke up again 440 00:22:01,321 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 5: and it had been shut down because of the concussion 441 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,161 Speaker 5: from the attack. But again, because you don't know what's 442 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,521 Speaker 5: happening to you, just go Not only do I not 443 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,001 Speaker 5: know what's happening to me, I don't know how to 444 00:22:13,041 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 5: respond or to you with this situation. 445 00:22:16,281 --> 00:22:18,521 Speaker 7: And one thing in media is you need to project 446 00:22:18,521 --> 00:22:21,521 Speaker 7: an air or competence at all times. 447 00:22:21,561 --> 00:22:22,441 Speaker 1: All times. 448 00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:27,241 Speaker 5: I don't feel like you know, sometimes when you talk 449 00:22:27,281 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 5: to police, they're great, and sometimes you talk to them 450 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:31,561 Speaker 5: and they're like, oh, I've had. 451 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 6: A bad day. 452 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,521 Speaker 5: I don't want to talk to you. No, with me, 453 00:22:33,801 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 5: you've got to be on all the time. So fast 454 00:22:37,721 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 5: forward the Big Boss for six PM. You express some 455 00:22:42,201 --> 00:22:44,881 Speaker 5: you know, this great sympathy for me, when about three 456 00:22:44,921 --> 00:22:47,321 Speaker 5: weeks after the tack when you visit in Perth and 457 00:22:47,681 --> 00:22:53,001 Speaker 5: got right in made me redundant. So I came back 458 00:22:53,041 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 5: to Victoria from closest job, like you get to my hometown. 459 00:22:57,281 --> 00:23:01,360 Speaker 1: And too long with colin the western districts of Victoria. 460 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 5: Yes, And we're in a staff meeting one day and 461 00:23:07,481 --> 00:23:10,281 Speaker 5: just talking about the usual crap and one of the 462 00:23:10,321 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 5: staff members walks into the Star being it says Lance, 463 00:23:14,321 --> 00:23:19,321 Speaker 5: there's two detectives from way at the door for you. Okay, 464 00:23:20,521 --> 00:23:23,360 Speaker 5: no idea. Maybe it was about the attack or something 465 00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:24,321 Speaker 5: in pintlope what. 466 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,441 Speaker 7: You're thinking, this is probably a good development. They got 467 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,721 Speaker 7: they caught the attackers. There's something going to happen now. 468 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,601 Speaker 6: No, I just thought I've got no idea to hear. 469 00:23:32,961 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 6: There was one thought about the gown. Lizy Well, I 470 00:23:35,481 --> 00:23:36,721 Speaker 6: just had no idea. 471 00:23:37,041 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 5: So I was We're the WA Sex Assault Squad and 472 00:23:42,281 --> 00:23:47,761 Speaker 5: we're here to investigate a sexual assault which happened this 473 00:23:47,921 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 5: time this date. So we go into the boardroom, we 474 00:23:50,801 --> 00:23:54,161 Speaker 5: sit down, and we start talking about the sexual assault. 475 00:23:54,201 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 5: And after about a minute of this, I'm. 476 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 6: Thinking, I know, I haven't done anything. 477 00:23:59,921 --> 00:24:02,041 Speaker 1: Did they tell you who the victim was? 478 00:24:02,681 --> 00:24:07,121 Speaker 5: Well, we're about a minute into this. Is the victim 479 00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:10,081 Speaker 5: a male or a female? Because I'm gay and if 480 00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:12,961 Speaker 5: it's a woman, I haven't so I asked them, is 481 00:24:13,001 --> 00:24:16,281 Speaker 5: the victim a male or a female? And I think, oh, 482 00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:19,281 Speaker 5: it's a woman. And it's like, I'm like, I don't 483 00:24:20,281 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 5: the kids have a term for a now gold and gay. 484 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,201 Speaker 5: So that's someone that's never had sex with a woman 485 00:24:26,241 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 5: and had no intention of It's just like, you know, 486 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,321 Speaker 5: you're just back for the one team. I fully intend 487 00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 5: to go out at the end of my life with 488 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 5: a you know, bout under my arm, back to the million, 489 00:24:37,441 --> 00:24:39,561 Speaker 5: holding my hea up with pride, you know, with a 490 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:40,241 Speaker 5: golden duck. 491 00:24:40,761 --> 00:24:42,521 Speaker 6: So as soon as they say it's a. 492 00:24:42,521 --> 00:24:45,481 Speaker 5: Woman, I just roll my eyes and I just told 493 00:24:45,921 --> 00:24:49,001 Speaker 5: one gay I could see the two detechnique to sort 494 00:24:49,001 --> 00:24:51,561 Speaker 5: of look at each other. They've traveled from Firth to 495 00:24:51,721 --> 00:24:53,401 Speaker 5: Melbourne too klak. 496 00:24:53,521 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 6: To talk to a gay guy about. 497 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,001 Speaker 5: So we go through the wig role, the process and 498 00:24:58,001 --> 00:25:02,281 Speaker 5: they show me pictures of the victim, the young lady. 499 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 5: I'm racking my brains. I'm thinking, because I'm taking you 500 00:25:05,921 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 5: it's just someone from I know, from six pr or 501 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 5: from church that I'm running to, or has made accusation 502 00:25:13,281 --> 00:25:18,761 Speaker 5: against me that I don't know. I don't recognize her anyway. 503 00:25:19,001 --> 00:25:22,360 Speaker 5: They I sort of half heard one of the detectives 504 00:25:22,441 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 5: on the phone outside the station is they say, we 505 00:25:25,801 --> 00:25:27,601 Speaker 5: were going to go down to Kolak Police station. We're 506 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:28,321 Speaker 5: going to interview you. 507 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:30,521 Speaker 6: So I could. 508 00:25:30,441 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 5: See since one of the detectives on his phone obviously 509 00:25:33,681 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 5: went back there office in perthday that's something guy. But 510 00:25:37,801 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 5: we go through the ring arole, we get down to 511 00:25:40,561 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 5: Klake Police station. I get a mug shot taken. We 512 00:25:44,041 --> 00:25:48,161 Speaker 5: go into an interview room. They asked me the hard questions. 513 00:25:48,761 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 5: It comes up that apparently how I'm linked to it 514 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:57,001 Speaker 5: is that they've found some DNA at the crime scene, 515 00:25:57,001 --> 00:26:01,641 Speaker 5: which is my DNA in bull Creek in What's and 516 00:26:01,801 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 5: I've found out since then by ringing about it in 517 00:26:04,441 --> 00:26:07,561 Speaker 5: media rating Will said what they were investigating was a 518 00:26:07,561 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 5: woman had told police that there was a bloke who 519 00:26:11,921 --> 00:26:14,761 Speaker 5: was whistling and acting like he was trying to find 520 00:26:14,801 --> 00:26:19,761 Speaker 5: his dog, and he threw her to the ground and 521 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,761 Speaker 5: sexually assaulted her. And that was the complaint that they 522 00:26:22,801 --> 00:26:27,561 Speaker 5: were investigation. This was the night before Australia Day in 523 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,841 Speaker 5: twenty sixteen. According to the article, this is what I'm 524 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:35,041 Speaker 5: going on. But my DNA is on a shoe at 525 00:26:35,041 --> 00:26:40,640 Speaker 5: the crime scene. So they go back and investigate on 526 00:26:40,681 --> 00:26:46,321 Speaker 5: their computer system. Right, DNA matches lands White. He's got 527 00:26:46,441 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 5: DNA at two crime scenes. That's what they can all. 528 00:26:49,761 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 5: Their computer tells them the crime scene in bull Creek 529 00:26:52,521 --> 00:26:55,321 Speaker 5: and the crime scene in Glendelow. But the police don't 530 00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:58,761 Speaker 5: know that I was the crime victim, victim, not perpetrator 531 00:26:59,721 --> 00:27:00,281 Speaker 5: in Glenlo. 532 00:27:00,441 --> 00:27:03,561 Speaker 6: So they're following a lee who've got a. 533 00:27:03,481 --> 00:27:08,321 Speaker 7: Bloke they like in these situations. They don't give advance warning. 534 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,521 Speaker 7: They're coming across from Perth to cool A, thinking, get 535 00:27:11,521 --> 00:27:14,081 Speaker 7: the handcuffs. Three, we've got the suspect. The DNA's there, 536 00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:14,841 Speaker 7: what else do we need? 537 00:27:14,961 --> 00:27:17,041 Speaker 6: Well, I did say that they were interviewing a number 538 00:27:17,041 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 6: of people. 539 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,201 Speaker 5: They did tell me that I wasn't the only person 540 00:27:20,241 --> 00:27:24,321 Speaker 5: being questioned about this, so I kind of knew straight away. Okay, 541 00:27:24,441 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 5: this hopefully will resolve pretty quickly. I'm laughing about it now. 542 00:27:28,681 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 5: It wasn't funny at the time because I was dreamely stressed. 543 00:27:32,241 --> 00:27:34,041 Speaker 7: They could be speaking your number of people, but they 544 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 7: come all the way from Perth to kol Act they're not. 545 00:27:37,681 --> 00:27:39,721 Speaker 1: You're the number one suspect, I can guarantee. 546 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,641 Speaker 5: Okay, that's interesting to know, right all right, Well, yeah, 547 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,201 Speaker 5: I didn't look at it that way at the time. 548 00:27:45,321 --> 00:27:47,641 Speaker 1: But otherwise the local compass could have could have dealt 549 00:27:47,681 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: with this. 550 00:27:48,281 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 7: They could say you aside, they wouldn't have to come 551 00:27:49,961 --> 00:27:52,601 Speaker 7: all the way from Perth, and so I think that 552 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,801 Speaker 7: that in the case they will ready to grab you 553 00:27:54,921 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 7: and extraduct you back to Perth. 554 00:27:56,441 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 5: Wow, okay, okay, so I'm pretty much again it's a 555 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,321 Speaker 5: personal spacing. I feel hugely in vain. I'm just nervous. 556 00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:09,281 Speaker 5: It's uncomfortable in the office with the poor old days 557 00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 5: because I don't explained to the rest of the staff 558 00:28:10,921 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 5: why the two cops from ware they nursed in the 559 00:28:14,281 --> 00:28:16,561 Speaker 5: middle of the start beating. So I was just up 560 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,041 Speaker 5: front with it, this is this is what's going on. 561 00:28:19,321 --> 00:28:21,681 Speaker 5: And to their credit, the guys in the office were great. 562 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,561 Speaker 5: Ladies were uncomfortable and we've got a potential sex attacker 563 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,561 Speaker 5: in the building. So I fully get that, fully understand that, 564 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 5: but it's still stressful, not knowing how long this was 565 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:34,761 Speaker 5: going to take to resolve. 566 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,561 Speaker 6: So it was about a month later I got call 567 00:28:39,881 --> 00:28:41,921 Speaker 6: that I've been eliminated as a suspect. 568 00:28:42,241 --> 00:28:45,881 Speaker 5: And on the article about the bull creep attacking Perth, 569 00:28:46,281 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 5: they had a photofit picture on the article. 570 00:28:48,281 --> 00:28:51,921 Speaker 6: Who was I'm dark haired, dark eyed, this guy was 571 00:28:52,081 --> 00:28:54,641 Speaker 6: having sort of Jiji hair like. They were looking poor, 572 00:28:54,761 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 6: seven years younger than me. 573 00:28:56,121 --> 00:29:00,001 Speaker 5: I didn't look so I'm assuming that the lady was attacked. 574 00:29:00,441 --> 00:29:02,041 Speaker 5: Was shown the photo of the make shot of me 575 00:29:02,081 --> 00:29:06,041 Speaker 5: and said, no, I don't know that, I'm assuming. 576 00:29:08,841 --> 00:29:10,081 Speaker 1: I wonder if they could. 577 00:29:09,921 --> 00:29:13,281 Speaker 7: Have done that before they you would let the birth 578 00:29:13,441 --> 00:29:17,561 Speaker 7: for Kolak. Maybe they had a footy game you go 579 00:29:17,641 --> 00:29:20,641 Speaker 7: to or something in Victoria. I was once actually, I 580 00:29:20,721 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 7: detectives come across from Victoria to Perth once actually to 581 00:29:23,841 --> 00:29:27,441 Speaker 7: talk about some information that I had regarding a murder. 582 00:29:27,721 --> 00:29:30,361 Speaker 7: And they came on the Friday when there was a 583 00:29:30,401 --> 00:29:33,881 Speaker 7: big game Collingwood was playing. I think that was the 584 00:29:34,161 --> 00:29:38,281 Speaker 7: I think that was the actual plan. A month after 585 00:29:38,321 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 7: they visited you, what happens there's another communication. 586 00:29:41,361 --> 00:29:44,521 Speaker 5: Okay, So I'm on a train back to Cola from 587 00:29:44,761 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 5: my home to long and I get a call on 588 00:29:47,201 --> 00:29:50,161 Speaker 5: the train and they start asking me more questions. 589 00:29:50,881 --> 00:29:52,801 Speaker 6: Have you been to poor Ragoon? 590 00:29:53,281 --> 00:29:55,721 Speaker 5: Oh, by the way, we eliminated you as a suspect 591 00:29:57,401 --> 00:30:02,201 Speaker 5: since a leaf the path over me. And the cop goes, oh, sorry, 592 00:30:02,321 --> 00:30:03,361 Speaker 5: I suppose I should. 593 00:30:03,081 --> 00:30:03,881 Speaker 6: Have opened up with that. 594 00:30:05,801 --> 00:30:09,881 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I tell my but it's at work. 595 00:30:09,881 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 6: It gets back to normal ish. It was still awkward 596 00:30:14,761 --> 00:30:16,881 Speaker 6: dealing with the police a little bit, just a part 597 00:30:16,881 --> 00:30:20,481 Speaker 6: of my job as a journalist. And then a few. 598 00:30:20,321 --> 00:30:23,841 Speaker 5: Weeks only a few days sorry, after the big boss 599 00:30:23,961 --> 00:30:27,481 Speaker 5: of the three csmes Ace radio came down. 600 00:30:27,961 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 6: So we're making redundant, so I think they panicked. 601 00:30:32,961 --> 00:30:35,681 Speaker 5: They never at any stage stopped for me to explain, 602 00:30:35,881 --> 00:30:37,281 Speaker 5: you know, the time of what happened. 603 00:30:37,321 --> 00:30:40,241 Speaker 6: They just thought this blokes a bit dodgy. Let's getting 604 00:30:40,281 --> 00:30:40,721 Speaker 6: out of here. 605 00:30:41,281 --> 00:30:45,241 Speaker 5: Because I was been praised so high heaven for turning 606 00:30:45,361 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 5: the Collac service from the worst in the network to 607 00:30:47,521 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 5: the best in the network. And I didn't know at 608 00:30:50,201 --> 00:30:53,081 Speaker 5: the time that I found out just after I'd been 609 00:30:53,161 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 5: made redundant, and I've been nominated for an ACRO for 610 00:30:55,761 --> 00:30:58,801 Speaker 5: a best News thread of the Commoscial Radio Awards, and 611 00:30:58,841 --> 00:30:59,401 Speaker 5: I found. 612 00:30:59,201 --> 00:31:00,041 Speaker 6: Out a little bit later. 613 00:31:00,041 --> 00:31:04,481 Speaker 5: I wasn't invited into the ceremony, but once so, I'm 614 00:31:04,561 --> 00:31:09,081 Speaker 5: confident that everything I did at Colact was as good 615 00:31:09,161 --> 00:31:12,241 Speaker 5: and professional and top munch as it could be. And 616 00:31:12,401 --> 00:31:15,161 Speaker 5: I just got seen as being damaged goods and you know, 617 00:31:15,921 --> 00:31:17,441 Speaker 5: a nuisance and you're out the door. 618 00:31:18,121 --> 00:31:21,201 Speaker 7: You could certainly come to that conclusion the sequence of events. 619 00:31:21,241 --> 00:31:23,961 Speaker 1: But I mean, the listeners and I are both wondering 620 00:31:24,001 --> 00:31:25,521 Speaker 1: that the DNA. 621 00:31:25,121 --> 00:31:27,801 Speaker 7: I mean, that's the thing, like they've bore. He's been eliminated, 622 00:31:27,841 --> 00:31:29,561 Speaker 7: But how the hell does his there? This is like 623 00:31:29,601 --> 00:31:31,881 Speaker 7: a movie. You got previr instancy how. 624 00:31:31,761 --> 00:31:34,721 Speaker 5: Do I get what I know in my head into 625 00:31:34,761 --> 00:31:38,241 Speaker 5: someone else's head that I'm innocent and this is what happened. 626 00:31:38,481 --> 00:31:41,681 Speaker 5: How do I get my knowledge of this into your 627 00:31:41,721 --> 00:31:44,241 Speaker 5: head so that you know exactly what I know about 628 00:31:44,281 --> 00:31:48,401 Speaker 5: what happened. So I tell them that, Well, I buy 629 00:31:48,441 --> 00:31:51,641 Speaker 5: my shoes at Murray Street Perth. I worked by the 630 00:31:51,641 --> 00:31:54,481 Speaker 5: same sort of shoe Murray Street per Target because they're 631 00:31:54,561 --> 00:31:58,241 Speaker 5: cheap and easy and comfortable into ten bucks. And they 632 00:31:58,321 --> 00:32:01,801 Speaker 5: tell me, and I show them my shoes. I was 633 00:32:01,801 --> 00:32:03,881 Speaker 5: still wearing the same type. I said, yep, it's the 634 00:32:04,001 --> 00:32:08,721 Speaker 5: same touch shoe, but a different size. So I put 635 00:32:08,801 --> 00:32:11,681 Speaker 5: together what's happened And I'll never know this for sure. 636 00:32:12,001 --> 00:32:14,801 Speaker 5: When I go to buy shoes, they hang from a 637 00:32:14,881 --> 00:32:19,721 Speaker 5: rat in the store. I'm shy at nine, so you 638 00:32:19,841 --> 00:32:22,921 Speaker 5: usually got six, seven, and eight. I put my finger 639 00:32:23,361 --> 00:32:26,721 Speaker 5: or my son in the shoe drag, the six long drag, 640 00:32:26,761 --> 00:32:28,921 Speaker 5: the seven long drag, the eight A long til I 641 00:32:28,921 --> 00:32:31,321 Speaker 5: get up side nine put my size nine. 642 00:32:31,641 --> 00:32:32,761 Speaker 6: I always wear a nine. 643 00:32:33,561 --> 00:32:38,361 Speaker 5: I don't know the size of the person's shoe that 644 00:32:38,521 --> 00:32:40,601 Speaker 5: was found at the scene. I don't know if it 645 00:32:40,641 --> 00:32:42,881 Speaker 5: was bigger than mine or smaller than mine. And I'm 646 00:32:42,921 --> 00:32:46,441 Speaker 5: assuming because it was my son had been in the shoe. 647 00:32:46,721 --> 00:32:49,601 Speaker 5: And they did tell me later that my thumb print, 648 00:32:49,721 --> 00:32:52,961 Speaker 5: my thumb print was inside the shoe, and they came 649 00:32:53,001 --> 00:32:55,801 Speaker 5: to the conclusion they told me that I must have 650 00:32:55,841 --> 00:32:58,841 Speaker 5: tried the shoe on. I don't try the shoes on. 651 00:32:58,921 --> 00:33:02,121 Speaker 5: I know I'm side nine. And the next time I 652 00:33:02,361 --> 00:33:05,481 Speaker 5: went to tay this is in gil on. You just 653 00:33:05,521 --> 00:33:08,001 Speaker 5: subconsciously did the same thing. And as soon as I 654 00:33:08,121 --> 00:33:12,361 Speaker 5: did it and draged you along with my thought, ah, 655 00:33:14,001 --> 00:33:16,161 Speaker 5: this is how it's got in there. And really a 656 00:33:16,201 --> 00:33:19,481 Speaker 5: bit more about DNA. It's a lot more sensitive apparently 657 00:33:19,801 --> 00:33:23,801 Speaker 5: in being able to detect DNA than when they first 658 00:33:23,841 --> 00:33:26,521 Speaker 5: when DNA first became a thing, so to the point 659 00:33:26,561 --> 00:33:30,801 Speaker 5: where it can become a hindrance to the investigation because 660 00:33:30,841 --> 00:33:34,081 Speaker 5: you got you've got DNA on everything. I've got DNA 661 00:33:34,121 --> 00:33:37,001 Speaker 5: on your furniture. Here in this there's probably some of 662 00:33:37,041 --> 00:33:39,561 Speaker 5: my DNA on you from when we shook hands. 663 00:33:39,721 --> 00:33:41,961 Speaker 7: I can be in trouble. You're you know, you're a 664 00:33:42,081 --> 00:33:43,521 Speaker 7: known person to the police. 665 00:33:44,721 --> 00:33:46,321 Speaker 5: Well seeking I was going to broke the news to 666 00:33:46,361 --> 00:33:49,641 Speaker 5: three I w's Ross Stephenson, who was he was using 667 00:33:49,681 --> 00:33:53,681 Speaker 5: the same panel in Coolak when he on the weekend 668 00:33:53,681 --> 00:33:56,281 Speaker 5: he did some Saturday morning kind of show where we 669 00:33:56,281 --> 00:33:58,081 Speaker 5: would go into three sis Kolak and use the same 670 00:33:58,121 --> 00:33:58,601 Speaker 5: panel in me. 671 00:33:58,881 --> 00:34:00,001 Speaker 6: Does the DNA. 672 00:33:59,761 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 5: Travel from me touching the desk to Ross touching the 673 00:34:02,481 --> 00:34:03,001 Speaker 5: same butt. 674 00:34:03,161 --> 00:34:03,801 Speaker 6: I don't know. 675 00:34:04,201 --> 00:34:06,881 Speaker 7: In this day, even with partial DNA, they're going to 676 00:34:06,921 --> 00:34:09,321 Speaker 7: be able to fill in the gaps with AI. So 677 00:34:09,761 --> 00:34:12,161 Speaker 7: it's an incredibly powerful tool and will only get more 678 00:34:12,161 --> 00:34:15,441 Speaker 7: powerful than I think. Unfortunately, it does have these little 679 00:34:15,481 --> 00:34:19,761 Speaker 7: quirks in it that the inadvertent transfer of DNA onto 680 00:34:19,881 --> 00:34:22,561 Speaker 7: other surfaces and items can lead to. 681 00:34:22,801 --> 00:34:23,521 Speaker 1: Just this situation. 682 00:34:23,601 --> 00:34:25,441 Speaker 7: I'm sure the people out there, or maybe there are, 683 00:34:25,481 --> 00:34:27,161 Speaker 7: maybe they are, they're the same experience. 684 00:34:27,161 --> 00:34:28,881 Speaker 1: Get in touch if you have Adam shand Rather at 685 00:34:28,881 --> 00:34:29,921 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. 686 00:34:30,441 --> 00:34:32,601 Speaker 7: Next time you go shoes shopping, mightn't suggest you wear 687 00:34:32,681 --> 00:34:34,921 Speaker 7: latex glass and maybe about lava as well. 688 00:34:35,001 --> 00:34:38,721 Speaker 1: Don't do that. But all of this doesn't help you 689 00:34:38,921 --> 00:34:40,161 Speaker 1: in your trauma because. 690 00:34:39,961 --> 00:34:42,361 Speaker 7: You're expecting those coppers are coming from Perth with news 691 00:34:42,401 --> 00:34:45,441 Speaker 7: about that they caught you a perpetrated So I mean, 692 00:34:45,481 --> 00:34:47,281 Speaker 7: I'm glad to hear that they're following up on. 693 00:34:47,241 --> 00:34:49,401 Speaker 1: This ball Greek section assault but yeah, so what had 694 00:34:49,521 --> 00:34:50,041 Speaker 1: happen to you? 695 00:34:50,081 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 6: A book? 696 00:34:50,521 --> 00:34:53,681 Speaker 5: I wish to put the same effort into investigating my 697 00:34:53,841 --> 00:34:57,841 Speaker 5: bashing as I did with this poor lady who I'm 698 00:34:57,841 --> 00:34:58,601 Speaker 5: glad they're going. 699 00:34:58,521 --> 00:34:59,681 Speaker 6: To that the effort to follow it up. 700 00:34:59,841 --> 00:35:01,881 Speaker 5: I hadn't done that part of the mixed feelings you 701 00:35:01,921 --> 00:35:04,161 Speaker 5: have about the whole thing. I'm glad you're doing your job, 702 00:35:04,481 --> 00:35:06,641 Speaker 5: and they did with the job in the end to 703 00:35:06,641 --> 00:35:10,481 Speaker 5: put me through just hell. In the meantime, I'm just 704 00:35:12,601 --> 00:35:17,921 Speaker 5: thinking about DNA now, as like with the officer who 705 00:35:18,361 --> 00:35:22,081 Speaker 5: asked me. The officer had to ask me what was 706 00:35:22,121 --> 00:35:25,841 Speaker 5: the crime scene at Glendalow, so that's not on his computer. 707 00:35:26,681 --> 00:35:30,321 Speaker 5: So I could walk now through another crime scene and 708 00:35:30,561 --> 00:35:33,761 Speaker 5: I avoid an if police are out doing a job, 709 00:35:34,441 --> 00:35:37,201 Speaker 5: I don't know whether you're the crime scene because I 710 00:35:37,241 --> 00:35:40,841 Speaker 5: could touch something. My DNA shows up on a computer 711 00:35:41,121 --> 00:35:44,881 Speaker 5: parnabas and now it's Sam's white. Three crime scenes and 712 00:35:44,921 --> 00:35:49,441 Speaker 5: the investigating officer of the third case doesn't know what 713 00:35:49,841 --> 00:35:53,601 Speaker 5: the second and the first crime scene once were. 714 00:35:53,681 --> 00:35:55,161 Speaker 6: Where I was the victim of. 715 00:35:55,161 --> 00:35:59,081 Speaker 5: Crime in one circumstance and an eliminated suspect of the second. 716 00:35:59,321 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 5: So I apparently got to go through the Supreme Court 717 00:36:02,001 --> 00:36:06,601 Speaker 5: in WA to get my DNA take off the register. 718 00:36:06,801 --> 00:36:08,841 Speaker 5: I don't want to go through that process. I just 719 00:36:08,841 --> 00:36:12,121 Speaker 5: to avoid crime scenes. There's no real sort of win 720 00:36:12,321 --> 00:36:14,001 Speaker 5: in this. Good plan avoid. 721 00:36:13,721 --> 00:36:16,881 Speaker 1: Crime scenes is avoid crime scenes. But you don't know 722 00:36:17,721 --> 00:36:21,161 Speaker 1: next the question, next the question that your. 723 00:36:21,001 --> 00:36:24,601 Speaker 7: Attackers man handled you or three of them, and their 724 00:36:24,681 --> 00:36:26,441 Speaker 7: DNA would have been all over you as well. 725 00:36:26,961 --> 00:36:28,081 Speaker 1: And you can't tell. 726 00:36:27,841 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 7: Me that they haven't already offended, since I'd be very 727 00:36:30,481 --> 00:36:31,521 Speaker 7: surprised if they hadn't. 728 00:36:31,721 --> 00:36:35,401 Speaker 1: You wonder whether or not their DNA has come up 729 00:36:35,801 --> 00:36:37,041 Speaker 1: in relation to your case. 730 00:36:37,161 --> 00:36:39,561 Speaker 5: I kind of looked at it like the Clarmont serial 731 00:36:39,641 --> 00:36:41,801 Speaker 5: killing scene, where I think it was about twenty years 732 00:36:41,841 --> 00:36:45,321 Speaker 5: the Kimodo on the closed line was the link that 733 00:36:45,801 --> 00:36:49,201 Speaker 5: said Bradley Edwards and but plants Williams. I think it 734 00:36:49,241 --> 00:36:52,401 Speaker 5: was the public servant who you know a lot, or 735 00:36:52,601 --> 00:36:55,601 Speaker 5: Peter Waigers. The Clermont man was a suspect. Nearly every 736 00:36:55,601 --> 00:36:59,961 Speaker 5: taxi driver in Perth had their taxi gone through. Lots 737 00:36:59,961 --> 00:37:02,081 Speaker 5: of people get caught up in these things and you 738 00:37:02,161 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 5: never hear about them. 739 00:37:04,441 --> 00:37:06,321 Speaker 6: So I know I'm not Robinson Crusoe. 740 00:37:06,361 --> 00:37:10,841 Speaker 5: But in terms of dealing with this, but it did 741 00:37:11,041 --> 00:37:16,921 Speaker 5: make the trauma from the original batching worse and still 742 00:37:16,921 --> 00:37:19,761 Speaker 5: does to this day. Because I've done dealing with I'm 743 00:37:19,801 --> 00:37:22,521 Speaker 5: still dealing with the collect thing to a lesser extent 744 00:37:22,521 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 5: than what I'm dealing with. 745 00:37:23,561 --> 00:37:25,721 Speaker 6: Particle and work is part of that. 746 00:37:25,841 --> 00:37:27,801 Speaker 5: Part of the reason why I'm not working not interested 747 00:37:27,801 --> 00:37:32,001 Speaker 5: in going back to work was the response from workplaces. 748 00:37:32,601 --> 00:37:35,641 Speaker 5: I made it worse, and I don't blame the workplaces 749 00:37:35,641 --> 00:37:38,441 Speaker 5: for that. They were dealing with something that did not 750 00:37:38,481 --> 00:37:41,761 Speaker 5: come across before. I was dealing with something that I 751 00:37:41,761 --> 00:37:45,321 Speaker 5: had not come across before. That they didn't know how 752 00:37:45,361 --> 00:37:47,121 Speaker 5: to help me. I didn't know how to help be 753 00:37:48,161 --> 00:37:52,601 Speaker 5: disappointed with Fairfax Media. We're the owners at the time, 754 00:37:52,681 --> 00:37:56,161 Speaker 5: and I would have thought the war correspondents coming back 755 00:37:56,201 --> 00:38:00,081 Speaker 5: from war zones, but his paper correspondents to the Age 756 00:38:00,081 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 5: Syney Morning Carol. Surely they know how to deal brief 757 00:38:03,481 --> 00:38:05,801 Speaker 5: people have been in traumatic seitu are, but there was 758 00:38:06,601 --> 00:38:11,641 Speaker 5: I know that the station in Birth was getting advice 759 00:38:12,321 --> 00:38:15,321 Speaker 5: externally about how to deal with me, but all the 760 00:38:15,401 --> 00:38:19,321 Speaker 5: advice was making everything worse for me. Because one of 761 00:38:19,321 --> 00:38:22,121 Speaker 5: the problems that came from the attack was when I 762 00:38:22,161 --> 00:38:24,561 Speaker 5: was been thrown around during the bashing. I didn't like 763 00:38:24,681 --> 00:38:28,321 Speaker 5: being disorientated, and what did they do? 764 00:38:28,481 --> 00:38:30,801 Speaker 6: Let's change answers ship. All I want to do was 765 00:38:30,841 --> 00:38:31,721 Speaker 6: get back to normal. 766 00:38:32,441 --> 00:38:34,481 Speaker 5: Let's change let's put in Let's have me reading the 767 00:38:34,521 --> 00:38:37,121 Speaker 5: six o'clock news and starting an hour earlier. Let's have 768 00:38:37,281 --> 00:38:39,641 Speaker 5: him going home. All I want to do is get 769 00:38:39,681 --> 00:38:43,001 Speaker 5: back to my same routine. I wasn't being consulted in this. 770 00:38:43,481 --> 00:38:47,281 Speaker 5: Decisions were being made for me. Again, I don't blame 771 00:38:47,321 --> 00:38:49,961 Speaker 5: anyone because but I hope we learned from it, and 772 00:38:50,521 --> 00:38:54,921 Speaker 5: the media organizations or any business, if they've got somebody 773 00:38:54,961 --> 00:38:58,241 Speaker 5: coming back to work, knows the best way that the 774 00:38:58,281 --> 00:39:01,801 Speaker 5: person needs to feel that they're in control, that they 775 00:39:01,801 --> 00:39:03,281 Speaker 5: had the backing at the workplace. 776 00:39:03,721 --> 00:39:07,281 Speaker 6: Fully the I'm a little bit wary of these. 777 00:39:07,121 --> 00:39:11,361 Speaker 5: Employment assistance programs because I've heard I didn't have enough 778 00:39:11,361 --> 00:39:15,361 Speaker 5: trust in them to approach them, because I'm aware that 779 00:39:15,801 --> 00:39:18,281 Speaker 5: you mist results with them. Some of them are UNI 780 00:39:18,401 --> 00:39:22,281 Speaker 5: students who've done a psychology degree whole dealing with people 781 00:39:22,281 --> 00:39:25,881 Speaker 5: who are ever inter organized. But trust is a big 782 00:39:25,881 --> 00:39:27,521 Speaker 5: thing that goes out of the window when you're dealing 783 00:39:27,521 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 5: with this kind of thing. So it's hard you need 784 00:39:30,561 --> 00:39:34,441 Speaker 5: other people in your life to be proactive inquiring, and 785 00:39:34,761 --> 00:39:38,721 Speaker 5: maybe you'll rebuff them, but eventually you'll just get to 786 00:39:38,761 --> 00:39:41,201 Speaker 5: a place of just mental exhausting. It's like I need 787 00:39:41,201 --> 00:39:44,921 Speaker 5: help that can come weeks, months, years later. I'm sort 788 00:39:44,961 --> 00:39:47,521 Speaker 5: of at that place now where I mean a thirteen 789 00:39:47,601 --> 00:39:49,921 Speaker 5: years later, we're in a much better place to deal 790 00:39:49,961 --> 00:39:52,121 Speaker 5: with it, and have been dealing with it this parts year. 791 00:39:53,001 --> 00:39:57,521 Speaker 6: So learned a lot about personal space. 792 00:40:00,041 --> 00:40:03,801 Speaker 5: I've heard from war veterans that when they go horseback 793 00:40:03,881 --> 00:40:05,921 Speaker 5: riding in the high ca trigger it seems to do 794 00:40:05,961 --> 00:40:10,721 Speaker 5: it good because they're getting out and reclaiming their personal space, 795 00:40:10,761 --> 00:40:21,201 Speaker 5: which after an attack, all your personal space previous limits, 796 00:40:21,321 --> 00:40:26,041 Speaker 5: like you know, uncomfortable sitting opposite you now. But if 797 00:40:26,521 --> 00:40:28,881 Speaker 5: I was at the beach at Ocean Grove the last 798 00:40:28,961 --> 00:40:34,881 Speaker 5: Christmas and there was a black father and son throughout 799 00:40:34,881 --> 00:40:37,241 Speaker 5: the service, they're three hundred meters away, they were in 800 00:40:37,321 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 5: my personal space. So getting used to walking past people 801 00:40:44,601 --> 00:40:47,601 Speaker 5: on the street who are not in control of their behavior, 802 00:40:47,841 --> 00:40:50,201 Speaker 5: or working for a radio manager who's not in control 803 00:40:50,241 --> 00:40:54,001 Speaker 5: of their behavior that will trigger you, and a trigger. 804 00:40:54,241 --> 00:40:57,361 Speaker 6: I've only had one full on trigger. That's when you 805 00:40:59,001 --> 00:41:02,081 Speaker 6: that's when I was at home with Mum, I was asleep. 806 00:41:02,481 --> 00:41:05,001 Speaker 5: She touched me on the back in the exact same 807 00:41:05,201 --> 00:41:07,601 Speaker 5: spot that the attackers did. For the next ten minutes, 808 00:41:07,801 --> 00:41:14,681 Speaker 5: I'm just almost screaming, crying, can't breathe can't catch my breath. 809 00:41:15,281 --> 00:41:18,681 Speaker 5: But i know from the psychology will help to receive. 810 00:41:19,841 --> 00:41:23,441 Speaker 5: These are just feelings. They will pass and that's probably 811 00:41:23,441 --> 00:41:25,041 Speaker 5: the best. And twice I've got hard to hear at 812 00:41:25,081 --> 00:41:30,921 Speaker 5: the time. But yeah, you can get to the point 813 00:41:30,961 --> 00:41:34,641 Speaker 5: where you always have a little sort of traces of 814 00:41:34,681 --> 00:41:36,921 Speaker 5: the traumas there, but it doesn't dial up, and for 815 00:41:37,081 --> 00:41:38,801 Speaker 5: hours of a day they can just you're not even 816 00:41:38,841 --> 00:41:42,401 Speaker 5: thinking about it. But usually every day something comes into 817 00:41:42,441 --> 00:41:47,161 Speaker 5: you your mindsector you think about either that or did 818 00:41:47,241 --> 00:41:49,121 Speaker 5: you see a police officer, and you're taken back to 819 00:41:49,201 --> 00:41:50,041 Speaker 5: cool Wak and. 820 00:41:55,561 --> 00:41:57,481 Speaker 1: Mats. Thank you for sharing the story. It's a very 821 00:41:57,481 --> 00:42:01,481 Speaker 1: important one. I think it's important for all victims of crime. 822 00:42:02,321 --> 00:42:06,761 Speaker 2: I think in some way, Truman Italy, these incidents will 823 00:42:06,841 --> 00:42:09,721 Speaker 2: leave an imprint on us, on our psyching, on our bodies, 824 00:42:10,281 --> 00:42:11,921 Speaker 2: physical scars, mental scars. 825 00:42:12,521 --> 00:42:14,161 Speaker 4: It's how we deal with it. And you've just given 826 00:42:14,161 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 4: a graphic depiction of. 827 00:42:16,361 --> 00:42:19,881 Speaker 8: The long term issues that are involved here, so thank 828 00:42:19,921 --> 00:42:22,161 Speaker 8: you for sharing it with me, and I want to 829 00:42:22,241 --> 00:42:24,721 Speaker 8: urge other people out there. If you've been a victim 830 00:42:24,721 --> 00:42:27,881 Speaker 8: of crime, if you haven't that good service from the police, 831 00:42:28,681 --> 00:42:31,081 Speaker 8: or you're still dealing with the trauma, I'd like to 832 00:42:31,081 --> 00:42:34,241 Speaker 8: hear from you. But also this extraordinary story of lands 833 00:42:34,361 --> 00:42:37,041 Speaker 8: is this twist in the story where he goes from 834 00:42:37,601 --> 00:42:40,401 Speaker 8: victim in one crime, doesn't get any service, becomes a 835 00:42:40,481 --> 00:42:41,441 Speaker 8: suspect in another. 836 00:42:41,881 --> 00:42:44,361 Speaker 4: If you've had the same experience, I'd love to hear 837 00:42:44,361 --> 00:42:44,641 Speaker 4: from you. 838 00:42:44,721 --> 00:42:46,961 Speaker 1: Adam Shanned writer at gmail dot com. 839 00:42:47,241 --> 00:42:50,641 Speaker 4: You can also report crime to crime stoppers one one hundred, 840 00:42:50,641 --> 00:42:53,641 Speaker 4: triple three, triple zero. But maybe you don't trust the 841 00:42:53,681 --> 00:42:56,641 Speaker 4: cops after this story, I understand that too, but you 842 00:42:56,681 --> 00:42:58,081 Speaker 4: can always call me or write to me. 843 00:42:58,121 --> 00:43:00,761 Speaker 1: Adam Shann writer at gmail dot com. Thank you lads 844 00:43:00,841 --> 00:43:01,641 Speaker 1: for coming in and sharing. 845 00:43:01,641 --> 00:43:06,481 Speaker 6: This one can hold up a lot of that. Not 846 00:43:06,521 --> 00:43:07,601 Speaker 6: a problem. 847 00:43:07,601 --> 00:43:08,801 Speaker 7: This is what I'm here for when I'm here for 848 00:43:08,881 --> 00:43:11,201 Speaker 7: the audience exactly in this way, So please don't instad 849 00:43:11,201 --> 00:43:11,721 Speaker 7: get in touch. 850 00:43:12,121 --> 00:43:13,561 Speaker 1: This has been adding sham for real crime