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Speaker 1: Bobby Capuccio, Hi, buddy.

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Speaker 2: See. I was just saying like, don't come on too strong,

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Speaker 2: and then you came on really strong, which like encourages

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Speaker 2: me to be full on.

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Speaker 1: In the introduction, how are you going made, I'm very good.

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Speaker 1: It's for those who are interested. It's six thirty three

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Speaker 1: in the PM where Bobby is yesterday my time, it's

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Speaker 1: twelve thirty three here in the thriving metropolis that is Melbourne,

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Speaker 1: twenty seventh, the twenty sixth. There, how's your day been?

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Speaker 1: Give my ol not my our listeners, a snapshot of

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Speaker 1: what you did today without divulging any state secrets.

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Speaker 2: Well, I got started pretty early, like five am, bayse

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Speaker 2: sx AM. I was pretty deep into it. Had an

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Speaker 2: event at a college which was great, great crew. It's

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Speaker 2: the second time I've been to this this school, like

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Speaker 2: working with them quite a bit. Then took it like

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Speaker 2: for me an epic drive because I'm not much of

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Speaker 2: a driver. I'm a New Yorker. We're not known for

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Speaker 2: our driving capabilities. And then went to another event at

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Speaker 2: a high school today that was nice, and then what are.

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Speaker 1: You doing at these school? Like? What are you doing?

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Speaker 2: Well? We provide, we provide services like my organization, to schools,

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Speaker 2: to law enforcement, emergency first responders, local government. We started off.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting because before they introduced me, they did this

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Speaker 2: game like two truths and one lie, and kind of

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Speaker 2: interesting like, so, yeah, you know the game, he says

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Speaker 2: the truth, but okay, right, it's a self explained story.

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Speaker 2: I thought, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna play this game today.

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Speaker 2: So I trashed my entire intro because I was like,

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Speaker 2: you know what, not interested in doing that anymore. Let

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Speaker 2: me play this game. And I think my my intro

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Speaker 2: kind of went, Okay, I'm I'm really excited to be here,

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Speaker 2: and I'm grateful to be here. I absolutely don't want

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Speaker 2: to be here right now. I literally rab to be

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Speaker 2: doing anything else. And this is a unique engaging topic.

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Speaker 2: And they had to guess, like what was the lie,

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Speaker 2: and the lie was the last statement, So the first

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Speaker 2: thing was completely true. I was excited to be there,

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Speaker 2: and I was grateful, and I absolutely did not want

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Speaker 2: to be there at the same time, and I'd rather

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Speaker 2: be doing literally anything else than hanging out there with them.

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Speaker 2: Because what I had lied about is this is not

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Speaker 2: a unique and engaging topic. What people are increasingly asking

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Speaker 2: for is around some form of how do we build

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Speaker 2: resilience and how do we stave off burnout? So people

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Speaker 2: are suffering, and they're struggling, and they're feeling a less

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Speaker 2: sense of control and agency. So as much as I

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Speaker 2: love a lot of these people I work with, I

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Speaker 2: hate the subject matter because it's indicative of the fact

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Speaker 2: that people are kind of on their knees and it's

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Speaker 2: been getting worse. So why do you talk about that

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Speaker 2: for a while?

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Speaker 1: What do you think? What do you think it's getting worse?

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Speaker 1: Why are people I don't know. Can we objectively say

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess so, But what is it?

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Speaker 1: Either it is or it seems like it is that

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Speaker 1: people are doing worse. What's your theory?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think one, You're right, I don't know if

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Speaker 2: it's getting worse, but it seems like it's getting worse.

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Speaker 2: I think everybody's competing for mind share, and like here

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Speaker 2: in the United States politically, people are becoming increasingly divided.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I don't want to talk about politics,

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Speaker 2: but no matter which side you associate or identify with,

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Speaker 2: they're constantly hitting the panic button to get your tune

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Speaker 2: into and in tune in and you listen to all

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Speaker 2: these threads, nobody's really talking to each other. They're talking

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Speaker 2: at each other. So I think there's a complete lack

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Speaker 2: of social cohesion, which I believe, regardless of the popularity

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Speaker 2: of a monomaniac on a MID, is one of the

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Speaker 2: greatest contributing factors to well being, longevity and long term

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Speaker 2: cognitive performance and emotional regulation. I think that fragmentization of

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Speaker 2: relationships at work, at home socially is devastating. I think

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Speaker 2: people feel more things are out of their control than

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Speaker 2: in their control because they're getting all of these inputs.

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Speaker 2: Now is that true? I don't know, Like Steven Pinker, well,

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Speaker 2: we'll show you how we've we've come from one place

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Speaker 2: a few hundred years ago to a much much better place.

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Speaker 2: The world has arguably never been as good as it

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Speaker 2: is now. But yes, a few hundred years ago, I

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Speaker 2: you know, I was kind of like contained within Dumbbar's number.

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Speaker 2: You know, you had about groups of what like maximum

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Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty people. Where now it's just you're

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Speaker 2: getting input from everywhere. And I think I think when

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Speaker 2: thinking as much.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that, Yeah, do you think that? Because

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Speaker 1: things are really presented now, irrespective of whether or not

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Speaker 1: they're fully true, partially true, completely untrue, Like things can

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Speaker 1: be presented in a really compelling way, Like certain things

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Speaker 1: get presented to my mum and dad on the TV

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Speaker 1: or even by someone on the phone or someone in

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Speaker 1: a shopping center. So mom and dad were at a

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Speaker 1: shopping center recently and they basically almost got well, they

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Speaker 1: someone was trying to sell them on this thing. Doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter what it was, but it's the thing you have

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Speaker 1: in the home. It does all this stuff to your air, apparently,

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Speaker 1: and you know, and it's amazing, it's incredible, right and

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Speaker 1: it's not. And fortunately I came up two days later

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Speaker 1: and I saw this brochure and I saw this appointment time.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, what's this. My mum said, Oh, it's amazing,

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Speaker 1: and I anyway, it's not amazing and it's a scam.

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Speaker 1: But you know, she's like, but the lady said, I go,

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Speaker 1: but the lady's selling you something, Mum. The lady her

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Speaker 1: job is literally to make money, and that's we shouldn't

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Speaker 1: begrudge her making money. But don't confuse a sales pitch

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Speaker 1: or an opinion or anecdotal evidence or whatever it is

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Speaker 1: with data or science or truth or I think that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because everything can be so well sold and produced and presented.

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Speaker 1: Like you look at the stuff that constantly. I don't

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Speaker 1: know about your feed, but I get a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff about supplements and training this, and like a lot

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Speaker 1: of stuff in the health, wellness, high performance space. And

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Speaker 1: you would think because it's almost presented as a mini

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Speaker 1: documentary rather than a sales pitch for something. So if

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Speaker 1: you don't really know what you're reading or what you're

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Speaker 1: listening to, it's so easy to lack the knowledge or

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Speaker 1: the discernment to be able to pick the bullshit from

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Speaker 1: the truth.

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Speaker 2: Well, one thing, I'm glad you get in my emails

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Speaker 2: you didn't respond. I'm glad you're actually receiving them.

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Speaker 1: Second, Yeah, that that plant thing that that I've been

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Speaker 1: taking that ancient Yeah, that's really it's helped.

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Speaker 2: Did you like the graphics, It's good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for the shot and the instructions.

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Speaker 2: The powder the powder blue font on like a lime

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Speaker 2: green background that was my own personal design, by the way.

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Speaker 2: Could so, I just don't think that we're engaging in

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Speaker 2: things that set us up psychologically or neurobiologically for to

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Speaker 2: feel like we're experiencing a state of well being. I mean, yes,

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Speaker 2: people are working very long hours and that you know,

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Speaker 2: if you're working constantly without a break, I think that

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Speaker 2: contributes to burnout. But in and of itself, it can

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Speaker 2: also do quite the opposite. And I've heard you say

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Speaker 2: this a thousand times. I think I've actually repeated it,

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Speaker 2: to be completely honest. Where you're working sixty hours a

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Speaker 2: week in a job that you can't wait to wake

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Speaker 2: up in the morning and you're just completely engaged, you're

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Speaker 2: in love with it, or you're working thirty hours a

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Speaker 2: week and a job that you absolutely can't stand and

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Speaker 2: sucking the soul. Idea which ones are going to contribute

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Speaker 2: to burnout? I think the answer for everybody listening to

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Speaker 2: this is pretty obvious. We don't you know, Robert Green.

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Speaker 2: This is just popping into my head. I am a

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Speaker 2: Robert Green fan for a few reals, and.

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Speaker 1: So I love that forty eight Loads of Power Everyone,

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Speaker 1: and a few other books as well.

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Speaker 2: Well. I'm talking specifically about mastery. We've removed apprenticeship and

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Speaker 2: mastery from our society. You know, We've We've got all

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Speaker 2: these tools and technologies and we're just going from one

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Speaker 2: task to another, never fully concentrating and focusing, and I

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Speaker 2: think that's really bad for us. So there was a

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Speaker 2: study published back in twenty twelve Nature, which is probably

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Speaker 2: one of the most reputable journals in the world, and

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Speaker 2: what it was showing is a correlation between higher levels

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Speaker 2: of dopamine like which rewards goal seeking behavior, and lower

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Speaker 2: corresponding levels of cortisol. So you know, like everybody's talking

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Speaker 2: about self care, I think, and I think self care

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Speaker 2: is really important. Like to meet you, Mendelief was working

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Speaker 2: on the periodic table and just grinding and grinding and grinding,

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Speaker 2: and it wasn't coming to him, and finally he just quit.

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Speaker 2: I don't think he quit forever. It's just like, okay,

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Speaker 2: I can't keep this up. So he just like dropped

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Speaker 2: it and went to sleep. So he goes to sleep

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Speaker 2: in a dream, the periodic table comes to him, and

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Speaker 2: that's your default mode network, like in operation, because like

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Speaker 2: when your your prefrontal lobes are overtasked, grinding hard or

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Speaker 2: is not going to help you. But when it comes

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Speaker 2: to most things, I think it is that immersive focus

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Speaker 2: and work an effort in something that's meaningful, Like if

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Speaker 2: I feel like life is happening to me rather than

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Speaker 2: I'm acting from a sense of agency. That's stressful. Or

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Speaker 2: if I feel like I'm at work and my relationships

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Speaker 2: are contentious rather than collaborative. I think that's a lot

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Speaker 2: to deal with, And I feel like people are going

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Speaker 2: into those environments increasingly or people are gonna hate me

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Speaker 2: for saying this. I think that when you structure work

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Speaker 2: around certain conveniences and you allow people to work from

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Speaker 2: a sense of freedom and autonomy, if you have the

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Speaker 2: right people on your team, performance will increase. But I

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Speaker 2: think what I struggle with is absolutes, like everybody needs

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Speaker 2: to come back to the office, Like if you're at home,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what you're doing, well, then man, you've

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Speaker 2: hired the wrong stem. And I also disagree with we

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Speaker 2: should never be in the office again. We could be

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Speaker 2: completely virtual because there is like there's research out of

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Speaker 2: MIT by Thomas Allen about proximity. We know from Paul

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Speaker 2: Zach's work on a moral molecule like like proximity and connection,

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Speaker 2: being face to face. It just does things that virtual

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Speaker 2: doesn't do for us. So I think there's no we

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Speaker 2: need to find a balance of how we work with

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Speaker 2: one another that makes.

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Speaker 1: I think also extrapolating on that which I completely agree

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Speaker 1: with you, you know, with and we've spoken about this many times,

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Speaker 1: and whether or not it's it's the work model, how

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Speaker 1: you work, where you work, you know, is it in

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Speaker 1: the three D version, is a virtual is it a

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Speaker 1: bit of both? Is it at work? Is it at home?

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Speaker 1: What do you eat? How much do you eat? When

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Speaker 1: do you eat? How do you train, how often? How hard?

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Speaker 1: What's your lifestyle? Do you drink booze?

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Speaker 2: Is it? You know?

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Speaker 1: I just think that there's no best model, but there's

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Speaker 1: the best model for each of our listeners, and it's

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out, like I've said many times, my

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Speaker 1: lifestyle and my job and the way that I live

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Speaker 1: and my diet and my habits and behaviors I would

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Speaker 1: not broadly recommend at all, not because it's not good,

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Speaker 1: because it's perfect for me, but it's not going to

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Speaker 1: be good for the majority. In fact, maybe hardly anyone,

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Speaker 1: because they're not me. So, you know, I think one

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Speaker 1: of these ideas that we need to get over in

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Speaker 1: personal development and self help and even behavioral psychology, is

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Speaker 1: that what's the best way too? Rather, it's like perhaps

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Speaker 1: what's the best approach for me rather than the best singular,

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Speaker 1: the best way, and trying to help people understand that,

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Speaker 1: and then to operationalize the idea that, yeah, there are

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Speaker 1: really broad kind of theories and ideas and habits that

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Speaker 1: in general terms create positive outcomes like being consistent with

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Speaker 1: good behaviors whatever they are. But then beyond that, you know,

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Speaker 1: should you train three days a week or seven days

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Speaker 1: a week, should you have you know, two big meals

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Speaker 1: a day or five small meals a day? Should you

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Speaker 1: you know, does running work for you? Or should you

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Speaker 1: do something that's no impact cardio? You know, It's like

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Speaker 1: there are just so many variables, and I think that

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Speaker 1: us learning how we work, Like because your body, you know,

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Speaker 1: and you're you know, you're subconscious and your you know,

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Speaker 1: your internal sat nab that wisdom that comes from who

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Speaker 1: knows where, Like that's all that stuff is always giving

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Speaker 1: us feedback and data and insight, you know, to then go, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: when I work around people, I'm I'm happier, I'm mentally

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Speaker 1: and emotionally I'm in a better place. Or when I

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Speaker 1: work around these people, I'm in a worse place. I

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Speaker 1: fucking dread going to work. But I did have a

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Speaker 1: job once where I was really excited to go to work,

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Speaker 1: So maybe it's not going to work that's the issue,

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Speaker 1: but rather this particular environment, culture, place, people, whatever, you know.

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Speaker 1: So I think this just thinking beyond the you know,

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Speaker 1: the global kind of this is good, that is bad,

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Speaker 1: this is better, that is worse, but trying to understand

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Speaker 1: our own individual responses and I guess reactions and our

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Speaker 1: own kind of I guess operating system that's optimal for

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Speaker 1: us around all of these other variables.

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Speaker 2: I think that level of self awareness, I mean self awareness,

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Speaker 2: it's like the key to the lock on transformation and

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Speaker 2: engagement in anything, you know, engagement being one of doctor

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Speaker 2: Martin Seligman's type criterias for truly living a life of

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Speaker 2: well being. I mean, I think he has five of

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Speaker 2: them represented in Perma, but engagement is definitely one, like

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Speaker 2: what really works for you. But within that there one

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Speaker 2: thing that you said that I grabbed onto was this

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Speaker 2: guy to be consistent and see and quote unquote good behaviors,

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Speaker 2: good behaviors, being supporting what you want. Because I'm all

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Speaker 2: for the breath work, I'm all for the day at

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Speaker 2: the spa. You would appreciate this. So one of the

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Speaker 2: executive leadership team that I was working with, I talked

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Speaker 2: to Tiff about this. I just love this lady. She

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Speaker 2: is so brilliant and so cool and just she's so effective,

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Speaker 2: but she's easy to be around. She actually looks and

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Speaker 2: has some of the mannerisms and characteristics of Lisa Stevenson.

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Speaker 2: And she had said she had said something to me.

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Speaker 2: I won't mention her name, so this is complete respect

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Speaker 2: for her privacy. But she said, oh, you know, over

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Speaker 2: the weekend, I spent the whole day learning how to

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Speaker 2: make sour dough bread. I thought, oh, wow, that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: So you're a baker. I'm not a baker. I was like,

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Speaker 2: you're a bread fan. She's like, nah, I'm all right

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Speaker 2: with bread. I was like, well, would you spend all day?

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Speaker 2: She said, because it's really really hard, and I like

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Speaker 2: doing really hard things that require a lot of effort.

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Speaker 2: And then we got into this, like she gets invited

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Speaker 2: to a spa age like that would just drive me

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Speaker 2: absolutely crazy to just sit there. And the conversation went

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Speaker 2: in a direction where self discipline is self care. You know,

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Speaker 2: we talk about self care. A lot of times people

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Speaker 2: confuse it with self indulgence. And this almost like pampering,

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Speaker 2: but it's really not one. It's an act of generosity

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Speaker 2: and responsibility too. It's kind of analogous to Stephen Covey

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Speaker 2: sharpening the saw. You know, if you're going to be effective,

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Speaker 2: you've got to take a step back. But leaning in

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Speaker 2: and having rituals and disciplines and exerting a lot of effort,

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Speaker 2: I think psychologically and biochemically sets us up for a

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Speaker 2: less stressful life. And I don't mean stress in terms

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Speaker 2: of in what we're putting forth, but distress rather than

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Speaker 2: you stress like stress can make our lives a hell

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Speaker 2: of a lot better. Stress can make us perform at

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Speaker 2: optimal levels, and it can do exactly the opposite. And

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Speaker 2: I think when we don't have discipline, we don't have effort,

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Speaker 2: we don't have rituals and consistency, we sacrifice you stress

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Speaker 2: for distress, and then we say, oh, well, stress is bad,

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Speaker 2: I need a break. How are you framing stress? What

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Speaker 2: does stress mean to you? And what are you doing

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Speaker 2: to contribute to that type of stress that some powerful?

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Speaker 1: Well? That is I love that idea. I love that

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Speaker 1: self care is not self indulgence because often when I

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Speaker 1: when I hear people talking about it's like, literally, what

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Speaker 1: you just said, I'm having a self care day. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to the spa. I'm like, oh, okay, And not

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Speaker 1: that I think that's a bad thing, right, I'm with you,

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Speaker 1: It's not a bad thing, and I'm all for it.

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Speaker 1: But also I think, you know, we know that life

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Speaker 1: life can be. Life can be amazing and beautiful and glorious,

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Speaker 1: but also life can be a fuck and difficult and

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Speaker 1: complicated and madness and mayhem and unfair and painful. Life

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Speaker 1: can be all of that. We don't want it, but

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter that we don't want it. It's coming for

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Speaker 1: all of us. And so you know, with that in mind,

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Speaker 1: how do we how do we build resilience. It's like

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Speaker 1: we talk about resilience a lot, but we also talk

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Speaker 1: about self care days. I'm like, where's the line, you know,

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Speaker 1: so tell me what self care is in the Bobby model.

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Speaker 1: And I know that it's an amalgamation of other people's

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Speaker 1: stuff as well, but just as you explain it, so

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Speaker 1: explain to me how to do self care in a

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Speaker 1: way that is and by the way, we're not saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, scrap the spa days. We're not saying that,

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Speaker 1: we're saying, on top of that, how do we do

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Speaker 1: self care in a way which is going to empower

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Speaker 1: us rather than just make out back more relaxed.

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Speaker 2: And it's different, it is different for everybody. But I

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Speaker 2: think self care starts with self awareness about what is

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Speaker 2: going on inside of us, right, what state are we in,

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Speaker 2: and taking that self awareness and putting it into regulated

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Speaker 2: actions that allow us to recharge. So this way we

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Speaker 2: can optimally re engage. To me, that is what self

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Speaker 2: care is. You know, and we talk about like resilience,

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Speaker 2: what is resilient. Resilience is adaptability. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: like bridges and buildings are built to be resilient, so

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Speaker 2: they bend with the imposition of stress and then they

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Speaker 2: return back to optimal function. Human beings can do that,

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Speaker 2: but sometimes with resilience, we don't return back to optimal function.

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Speaker 2: We return to optimal function in a little bit more aside.

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Speaker 2: So we actually experience growth as a stress response to

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Speaker 2: stress within limits. So the first thing I'm thinking about

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Speaker 2: is if you have rituals and you have frameworks for

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Speaker 2: your life, that gives you freedom because you need flexibility.

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Speaker 2: Adaptability needs frameworks. So if I'm driving like today, I

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Speaker 2: spent like a lot of time on the road and

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Speaker 2: it exhausts me. And as I'm driving down the road,

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Speaker 2: my sat nav said, well road is closed ahead. Well

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Speaker 2: it's not like, ohhez, I'm never going to get to

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Speaker 2: my next event. It was able to adapt and recalculate

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Speaker 2: and put me on another road and I didn't lose

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Speaker 2: it much time at all. Well what if I didn't

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Speaker 2: have that structure, I didn't have that road map, Well,

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Speaker 2: the roads closed, I'm screwed. So discipline lends the structure

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Speaker 2: from which adaptability can flow. So a lot of people think,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, all those rituals and structures, that's an

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Speaker 2: imposition on No, it's a mechanism for freedom, not an

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Speaker 2: imposition on it. So I think that's like one of

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Speaker 2: the concepts around structure and discipline being an element, one element,

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Speaker 2: not the element. Right, Like some people it is a

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Speaker 2: spa day, you know, for some people, it's a Netflix day.

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Speaker 2: For some people, you know what, it's just walking like

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Speaker 2: in the evening around something scenic and just not overthinking

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Speaker 2: and not being plugged in, leaving your phone at home.

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Speaker 2: But like, look at it this way, Bowmuster's research on

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Speaker 2: decision fatigue. So if discipline is glucose mediated functioning of

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Speaker 2: the prefrontal cortex, so we need glucose to regulate the

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Speaker 2: parts of our brain that allow us to say, Hey,

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Speaker 2: you know what I really want right now is a

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Speaker 2: piece of cake, but I also want to complete this project.

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Speaker 2: Let me delay gratification. Right. We make enough of these decisions,

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Speaker 2: and we're doing this throughout the day. We have a

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Speaker 2: limited reserve. So let's say I wake up in the

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Speaker 2: morning and it's like rather than just like hanging out

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Speaker 2: and joy my coffee, I could do that, but I

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Speaker 2: also know that that's where I'm most alert in those hours.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to study and work really hard for the

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Speaker 2: next two hours, and that's grueling. What did I do

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Speaker 2: for the rest of the day. I actually decrease cognitive

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Speaker 2: load because had I done that in the evening and

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Speaker 2: had to be done. And when I have the least

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Speaker 2: amount of mental reserve for discipline, I'm engaging in activities

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Speaker 2: that require high level of focus. I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: be optimal. But I just freed up all that cognitive

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Speaker 2: load by getting that done through my own volition rather

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Speaker 2: than being told to do that. I think that's powerful,

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Speaker 2: but it's even more than that because I plan to

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Speaker 2: do that. So that's an intention, right, So for neuroplasticity,

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Speaker 2: for brainer, you need an intention, you need focus, and

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Speaker 2: what really helps is relevance. So I'm doing this because

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Speaker 2: it's important to me. So I just elevated my dopamine levels,

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Speaker 2: dopamine and self efficacy. So look at how I'm priming

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Speaker 2: my brain. I'm priming my brain to scan my environment

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Speaker 2: for the rest of the day for goal seeking behavior

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Speaker 2: to get my next dopamine hit. So I'm motivated to

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Speaker 2: engage in goal seeking behavior. I've increased focus, I've increased awareness,

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Speaker 2: I've increased the biochemistry for learning, for development, And because

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Speaker 2: I'm elevating my dopamine levels, I'm also taking steps to

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Speaker 2: kind of mitigate some of the biochemical responses to stress

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Speaker 2: that make me less effective in everything. And I'm getting

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Speaker 2: more confident doing it because I have some wins early

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Speaker 2: in the day that makes my day easier, not harder.

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Speaker 2: Like people think about effort as it's like, oh, this

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Speaker 2: intense sacrifice. It is I need to choose one thing

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Speaker 2: in lieu of another, But it doesn't necessarily mean you're

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Speaker 2: suffering through it. It might actually alleviate some of that.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, there was a lot there. There'll be

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Speaker 1: a test everyone, it'll be emailed to you Tuesday. A

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Speaker 1: couple of things. So the first thing is, so if

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Speaker 1: we look at the analogy, which has been done a

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Speaker 1: lot on this show, but it's relevant for right now.

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Speaker 1: So let's go there again. You know, so I want

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Speaker 1: to build strength, I want to build function, I want

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Speaker 1: to build performance. I want to build muscular endurance, I

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Speaker 1: want to increase my sporting performance or whatever. So I

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Speaker 1: go to the gym and I do some kind of

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Speaker 1: strength training whatever, kettle bells, body weight, traditional bodybuilding, pinloaded,

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah. But the bottom line is I go

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Speaker 1: into the gym and I do something that's hard, and

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Speaker 1: over time I do this thing called progressive overload or

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Speaker 1: progressive resistance training. And over time, if I do it strategically,

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Speaker 1: intelligently and consistently, I start to explore my physical potential.

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Speaker 1: I get stronger, I build muscle, I get better. Right,

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Speaker 1: It's very strategic and we know that. Well, Bobby, you

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Speaker 1: were doing a ten kilo last week in the last

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Speaker 1: few weeks, so maybe we'll go to a twelve and

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Speaker 1: a half kilo dumbbell today. Let's see how that goes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're fine with that. Call. In two months now Bobby's

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Speaker 1: doing the fifteen. Then in six months he's doing the twenty.

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Speaker 1: It's been very strategic and there's a method, and it

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Speaker 1: all makes sense. How do we apply that to building

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Speaker 1: mental and emotional fitness and or resilience? Like, how do

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Speaker 1: we you know, because as you said at some stage

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Speaker 1: in that monologue, you know, too much is bad depending

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Speaker 1: on you know, you throw someone in a situation that's

427
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: they're just not mentally or emotionally ready for, that could

428
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: have a catastrophic outcome. You give them too little, there's

429
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: no adaptive response. So for people who go, you know what, Bobby,

430
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: that makes sense. I want to build. I want to

431
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: be more resilient mentally and emotionally. I want to be

432
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 1: able to deal with hard things. I want to be

433
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 1: able to navigate the bullshit and the mayem and the mess,

434
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: unfairness and the injustice, because that's just going to happen

435
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 1: along with the great stuff. Right, how do we is

436
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 1: there a conscious, intelligent strategic I know there's no one

437
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: process fits all, but how do we start the wheels

438
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: turning on becoming more of that.

439
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 2: I love that analogy, right because I bet at both

440
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 2: ends of that. I've sustained some serious injuries in the

441
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 2: gym because I'm an idiot. But if you spend six

442
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 2: hours in the gym and you think, oh wow, you know,

443
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 2: now I'm really going to see some results, you're going

444
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 2: to see a result. It's just not the one you want.

445
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 2: But you're better off spending a strategic sixty to eighty

446
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 2: minutes over the course of several months a year's lifetime.

447
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 2: You're gonna that's gonna be a payoff. I think when

448
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 2: when you take a look at what is that sweet

449
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 2: spot for me, it's where frustration meets curiosity. We're curious

450
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 2: about things that are important to us, things that we're

451
00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 2: interested in. But if we're really applying ourselves to the

452
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 2: point where we're facilitating learning because we are increasing our

453
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 2: epionephical levels, let's say as the tue coline as well.

454
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 2: So when you're like, you're like, when you're really focused

455
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 2: on something, and it's kind of creating a little bit

456
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 2: of frustration because it's hard to like get it and

457
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,479
Speaker 2: it's hard to stick with it. I think that's a

458
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 2: really good sweet spot when it goes to like overwhelm

459
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 2: that that's something that probably exceeds our adaptive capability and

460
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 2: it can have the set I mean, you're not going

461
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 2: to break your brain. Well, we hope not. So that's

462
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 2: a little bit dramatic. I think starting out with things

463
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 2: that reasonably fit. What's what's going on?

464
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,919
Speaker 1: Let me give you a specific question if I can

465
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: go answer, because this is very specific to your life.

466
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: In my life, public spaking. Not that someone's scared of

467
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 1: public spaking they need to do. They don't necessarily want

468
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: to become a bubby Capucco in front of audiences two

469
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: hundred days a year, but they just want to be

470
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: able to get in front of a group, maybe professionally

471
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: one day, but they're terrified. What might be a protocol

472
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: or a starting point for somebody in that position.

473
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,479
Speaker 2: I would test it. I would test it again in

474
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 2: environments that cause you a little bit of fear, frustration, curiosity,

475
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 2: but not overwhelmed. Start speaking up in a meeting. So

476
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,959
Speaker 2: when you say public speaking, I ask you from one

477
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 2: to ten, right, what what is a level ten presenter

478
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 2: in your mind? Right? So who would you describe aside

479
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 2: from Craig Harper, because it's your podcast that is a

480
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 2: level ten in public speaking? What is a what?

481
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: Oh do you want to answer that or you just

482
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: talking going sorry.

483
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, well who's who's a ten in your mind?

484
00:28:54,000 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: Well, I mean in terms of again, there's like, there's

485
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: so many forums like Joe Rogan's public speaker, but not

486
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: in the way that people think. But every day he

487
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: talks to a massive audience. It's got the biggest podcast

488
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: in the world. He goes okay, but people wouldn't think

489
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: of him when they think of a public speaker. But

490
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: I guess, at the risk of sounding.

491
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: Cheesy, and just see, he's a comedian.

492
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, that requires the time of scale, someone who's consistently

493
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: done it well forever, love him or hate him, but

494
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,959
Speaker 1: it is Tony Robbins. And I mean I've seen Tony Robbins,

495
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: as have you probably live and I've seen him talk

496
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: for fourteen hours with hardly any rest and magically be

497
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: just as good at the end as he was at

498
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: the start. And I've got no fucking idea how he

499
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: does it. So he'd be a ten on the in

500
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: this conversation.

501
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: And you know what, that's a safe choice. I mean

502
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 2: most people I speak to wake Tony Rabins in one.

503
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 2: But it doesn't matter what you think of him. The

504
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 2: gay is remarkable in his abilities. So let's take Tony Rabins, right, Yeah,

505
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 2: and then it's like, what does a one look like?

506
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 2: And where where do you think you are? Right? So

507
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 2: on a scale from one to ten, where are you

508
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 2: sometime OPPORTUNEERZ? I think I'm a three? Okay? Well, first

509
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 2: of all, what makes you with three? Right? We talked

510
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 2: about ten and one? What makes a three? Why did

511
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,719
Speaker 2: you not rate yourself a one? I think that's really

512
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 2: important because in between one and three is where you

513
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: have a level of confidential. You believe that there's ability.

514
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 2: Between one and three is what it is you want

515
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 2: out of speaking. Between one and three is why you

516
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 2: feel that you need to improve your skills. So let's

517
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,719
Speaker 2: take a look at what you already can do well

518
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 2: between one and three. Now, what would a four look like? Yeah? Yeah,

519
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 2: and walk me through what a number four would look

520
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 2: like and feel like if you were speaking at a

521
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 2: four level? What would happen and what would be the indicators?

522
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 2: What's an environment that is relatively safe still challenging, where

523
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 2: you could test that your next meeting, when you're sitting

524
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 2: around with your staff, you know that thing that you

525
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 2: don't want to say because you're worried about how it's

526
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 2: going to come out, Take a chance and say it,

527
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 2: but don't just say it. Practice saying it the way

528
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 2: a number four would say it. Now, come out of

529
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 2: that meeting. What happened, What was the result? What went

530
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: really well? What was surprising? How did people react to?

531
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: How did that feel in terms of what you were

532
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: able to contribute? Because if you sat there and didn't

533
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 2: say anything because you were worried about how you would

534
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: be perceived, that's normal, that's understandable. That's not generosity. It's

535
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 2: better to contribute when you're on a team. So how

536
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: did that feel? Now? What would have made that a five? Okay,

537
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 2: what's the next meeting after that? You know, so you know,

538
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: somebody in my organization she wanted to she wanted to

539
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 2: lead a mindfulness session for the organizations. It reached out, Hey,

540
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 2: does anybody Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and do that.

541
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 2: Now that might be a little bit of a bigger leap,

542
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: But what could you volunteer for? You know, like, what

543
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 2: is a small audience that you can get in front of,

544
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 2: and every time you're getting in front of something that

545
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 2: has relative safety but also a level of challenge, and

546
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 2: it scares you a bit, Go ahead and do it

547
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 2: and evaluate what did I do well? What would I

548
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 2: have done differently if I could do that again? And

549
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 2: now show me six, seven, eight, nine, ten one thing

550
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 2: that I use when I'm training speakers. And this works

551
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 2: because it's really funny and it kind of gamifies this

552
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 2: and it's silly, but I'll tell you why it works.

553
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 2: Where do you think you are as a presenter? Well,

554
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 2: I think I'm about a four. Okay, stand up in

555
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 2: front of this room of five, six, whatever. Sometimes it's

556
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 2: like fifty people, and show us a number four. Okay,

557
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 2: Now here's what I want you to do. Show us

558
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 2: a number three, ah, number three? All right? Now, show

559
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 2: us what a two and a one would look like.

560
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 2: And sometimes we get ridiculous. So if someone was like

561
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 2: a negative three public speaking, show me that. Now that's

562
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 2: clear why it works, because if we're so worried about

563
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 2: how we're being perceived, the assignment is screw up as

564
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 2: bad as you possibly can have fun exaggerating the worst

565
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 2: presentation you can ever imagine giving one, you're starting to

566
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 2: laugh at yourself. Two you realize it's not so bad.

567
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 2: Three if you really fail, you've just succeeded, so you

568
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 2: don't have to feel self conscious and insecure. And then

569
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 2: we take people back up. We take them back up

570
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 2: to a one, to a two, to a three, to

571
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 2: a four. But then we keep going. Now show me five,

572
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 2: Now show me six. What would what would seven be like? Stop?

573
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 2: Stop presenting just seven? Okay, demonstrate it. And then we

574
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 2: take them up to ten. And what's interesting, and we

575
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 2: don't expect anybody to be a level ten. It's like,

576
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 2: oh wow, we did that exercise and you know Tony

577
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 2: Robbins is a level ten. No, you're not going to

578
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:18,280
Speaker 2: be there. But what what you understand is by taking

579
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 2: a risk and amplifying the way you communicate, you improve

580
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 2: remarkably within the span of fifteen minutes. Now, if you

581
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 2: can do that, what could you do in fifteen months? Yeah?

582
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: I love it all right, I love that answer to

583
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: the question. No, No, I like it a lot. I

584
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: want to Okay. So with the same kind of question

585
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: around how do I build resilience or how do I

586
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: overcome this, whether it's social fear, anxiety, whatever it is,

587
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: it's an intersection of things. I don't think it's a

588
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: single thing. I think it's got to do with perceived

589
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: self work and self esteem and imposter syndrome and previous

590
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: experiences and it's a bunch of shit. But I think

591
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: it's fair to say that a percentage of my audience,

592
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: and maybe a percentage of the hosts on this show

593
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: have experienced people pleasing or are people pleasers. And obviously

594
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: it's not a great thing, and it gets in the

595
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: way of a lot of things, or it can get

596
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: in the way of a lot of things. As I

597
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: always say, it's nice to be nice, but it's not

598
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: nice to be a doormat. So how do we with

599
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: this same kind of not necessarily the same approach as

600
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 1: public speaking, but how would you work with somebody? And

601
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: I'm only bringing this up because I know right now

602
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 1: half of my audience are going, fuck, yes, Bobby, tell

603
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: me how to deal with this because I'm such a

604
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: people pleaser. Again, I know there's no simple solution or

605
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: three step protocol. But because I think you, over the

606
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: year have been a people playser a bit, and I

607
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: know I have. When you know, I think both of

608
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: us at times, and probably I don't know about you.

609
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: I think I'm better at it than I used to be,

610
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: but they're depending on the audience. Sometimes I'm still a

611
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: fucking wanna be and a tryhad.

612
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 2: For me, there's an irony there, if I'm honest with

613
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 2: myself when I look back, when the more I tried

614
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 2: to please people, the more I did the opposite. And

615
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 2: I think I heard something. I forgot where I heard it,

616
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 2: but was the other day it was like, and this

617
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 2: is not for coaches, this is not but as a

618
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,879
Speaker 2: speaker or making your way out in the world, your

619
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:47,280
Speaker 2: job is to be divisive. Your job is to polarize people.

620
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: And I love that, and they weren't talking about your

621
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: job is to, you know, be so divisive, Like people

622
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 2: listen to you and they're divided, but you are going

623
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 2: to Your job is to attract people. But that also

624
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 2: means you have to repel them, because if your message

625
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 2: is palatable for everyone and you're trying to please everyone,

626
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 2: you're not going to resonate with absolutely anyone. Really, And

627
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 2: I thought, wow, isn't that Isn't that a great way

628
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 2: of framing it? And I think when we look at

629
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 2: these things like if you are going to be your

630
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 2: own coach, you can use Whitmore's grow model, Like what

631
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 2: exactly do you want? Like, like, let's get clear on

632
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 2: the outcome first, Like what are we talking about to

633
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 2: find the conversation to find the outcome the experience that

634
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 2: you really want? What's most impactful to you about that?

635
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 2: Right when that happens? What's different? What do you gain?

636
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 2: What do you feel go through that? Who does it serve? Okay,

637
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 2: what's the reality? How far apart are we? Right? So

638
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 2: you could scale that if you want, Like I want

639
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 2: to be at an eight, but I'm over here. Okay, Well,

640
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 2: what are you What are some of your options, Like

641
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 2: if you wanted to get better at something, whether it's

642
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 2: like you know, not people pleasing as much because that

643
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 2: could be pretty debilitating after a while, or whether it's

644
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,439
Speaker 2: to get better at a certain skill, like do a little

645
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 2: brainstorm with yourself or someone else, What are all of

646
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 2: the options you have in front of you to develop that.

647
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,479
Speaker 2: It could be taking a course, it could be next

648
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 2: time I feel like I'm going to say no, I'm

649
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 2: going to politely, empathetically but directly say no and take

650
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 2: that risk and see that response, right, you know, keep

651
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 2: going until you get like half a dozen ideas. When

652
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 2: you look at that, what is what is the most reasonable,

653
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 2: most exciting, or maybe even the least threatening options you

654
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 2: just came up with. What are you willing to do

655
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 2: in the next seven days? How are you going to

656
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,439
Speaker 2: go out and test that in the world. I think

657
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 2: that's that's probable a pretty good system to use if

658
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 2: you're self coaching. Does that grow? Right? What's the goal,

659
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: what's the reality? What are your options? And what are

660
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 2: you willing to do? Because if you're going to meet

661
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 2: changes in any aspect of your life, you're going to

662
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 2: have to meet changes in your brain and behavior change

663
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:21,280
Speaker 2: is probably one of the most effective ways to facilitate neuroplasticity,

664
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 2: like to literally become someone different by doing something different.

665
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love the idea of doing different stuff,

666
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 1: being in different rooms with different people, experiencing different cultures,

667
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: different conversations, listening to people with different you know, opinions,

668
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: ideas like the and I wrote something the other day.

669
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: I can't remember the totality of it, but I was

670
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: talking about essentially so much of social media anyway, is

671
00:39:54,520 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: essentially opinions about other people's opinions right, It's like opinions

672
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: of opinions of opinions, right, there's not that that don't

673
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: confuse someone's opinion of someone else's opinion with information or truth.

674
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 1: But I think one of the challenges for us is

675
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 1: because we do, for better or worse, we do attach

676
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 1: ourselves emotionally to our beliefs. And so when you have

677
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 1: when your identity is somewhat intertwined with the thing that

678
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: you think is the right thing, well, now it's very

679
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: hard to be open minded because you don't want to

680
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 1: be wrong. It's very hard to unlearn when you already

681
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 1: know what the right thing is. So this and I've

682
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: spoken about this a bit in the last year, but

683
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: just the willingness to go I don't know or I'm wrong.

684
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: We spoke about this a little bit, you and I

685
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,439
Speaker 1: with sitting on the fence. What the benefit of fitting

686
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 1: sitting on the fence, I think, or maybe I was

687
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,439
Speaker 1: chatting with someone else, But just the willingness to go, look,

688
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: this is what I think and what I believe, but

689
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: I could be wrong. This is this has been my experience,

690
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: and so this is what I think, but somebody else

691
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: it could be different. And also you know, knowing that

692
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 1: historically for me personally, how many things I've gotten wrong

693
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: over the years, it would be one unintelligent to assume

694
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: that I'm not getting things wrong today just because I

695
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 1: don't want to get things wrong, or that I'm not

696
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: going to get a lot of things wrong or make

697
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: mistakes or be flawed moving forward despite my best effort

698
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 1: to be you know, right for one of a better term.

699
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 1: And so I guess that just that openness to be

700
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 1: able to be okay with imperfection and being wrong and

701
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: unlearning and saying, look, you know, I fucked up.

702
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 2: You know, I think self awareness is definitely wants that.

703
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 2: Reflection is another. Willingness is another. To make changes. Like

704
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 2: we've been talking about this whole conversation, it requires very

705
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 2: specific focus right around a specific thing and sustained effort.

706
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 2: For me, that shows up in actively looking to engage

707
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 2: with disconfirming evidence. And it doesn't mean when I do

708
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 2: that that I automatically have to agree with it. I'm

709
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 2: not looking to condone or condemn. I'm just looking to

710
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 2: seek out an opinion that is one hundred and eighty

711
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 2: degrees the opposite of mine and dig into why, what's

712
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 2: the rationale, I think, because if you don't do that,

713
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 2: I think there's a difference between having beliefs and beliefs

714
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 2: that have you, And I think when your identity is

715
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 2: inseparable with your belief system, your beliefs have you. And

716
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 2: I think one litmus test of this is take a

717
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 2: look at everybody around you. Does everybody around you believe

718
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 2: the same thing that you believe? And for you that

719
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 2: that can be very self affirming. Yeah, of course this

720
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 2: is right. Everybody around me believes what I believe. Well,

721
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 2: how much of an independent thinker am I if coincidentally

722
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 2: everyone I associate with in my life has the same

723
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 2: thoughts and opinions that I do. Yes, yes, First of all,

724
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 2: if you're hanging out with ten people and like they

725
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 2: all like think and believe exactly the same, none of

726
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 2: them are redundant. Yeah. So that's something that I always

727
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 2: ask myself, because I mean, I understand seeking consensus, this affirmation,

728
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 2: this security. When we go back to like where we

729
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:59,240
Speaker 2: started in this conversation, self discipline is in fact self care.

730
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 2: One of the reasons why is because it creates predictability.

731
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 2: There's so many things in our environment that are not predictable.

732
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 2: And the adverse effects of stress are not necessarily from

733
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 2: the stress itself. It's stress related to our locus of control.

734
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 2: The greater the lack of predictability, the greater the adverse

735
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:24,879
Speaker 2: response to stress. So like, when we have things within

736
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 2: our environment that we can predict, it kind of helps

737
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 2: us deal with stress. So if we look around and

738
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 2: everybody thinks the same way, we think, well, that adds

739
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 2: a little bit of predictability to the world.

740
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,879
Speaker 1: Did I ever tell you the time where I got

741
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: a lady up on this stage to deal with her

742
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 1: fear of public speaking and it didn't end well? Have

743
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: you ever heard this story? No?

744
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 2: I wonder why.

745
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: Okay, So one of the things that I've done, I've

746
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: not done it a lot since, but I've done it

747
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: at least fifty times. And that's over thirty years of

748
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: public speaking. So it's not actually maybe it's once a year,

749
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 1: maybe it's thirty or forty times, but I've done it

750
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 1: a fair bit. Where somebody and we talk about fear,

751
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 1: We talk about you know, leading into the thing that

752
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: you're scared of, the thing that's uncomfortable, and you know,

753
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 1: how do we grow, learn evolve? You do thing that's

754
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: a bit scary, and then you know, you get desensitized,

755
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: and eventually the thing that's scared you doesn't scare you anymore,

756
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: and your fear response goes from an eight down to

757
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,720
Speaker 1: a seven to a six, and then eventually it's a zero,

758
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: and then you might even enjoy that thing. So not

759
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 1: only are you not scared now, it's actually producing happy

760
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:42,240
Speaker 1: hormones and joyful hormones, not cortisole on adrenaline, this whole

761
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 1: thing right. And then I go, now, with that in mind,

762
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: who's terrified of public speaking? And I would get someone

763
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: down the front and I'd say, look, just come down

764
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,240
Speaker 1: and I would just put my hand on their shoulder

765
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: if that was appropriate, and i'd just talk to them.

766
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 1: I go, don't look at them, look at me. So

767
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 1: i'd do this and I'd say, where'd you draw from?

768
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: And that's how I go, Okay, how long you been

769
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: with the I go, no, worry about them, You're not

770
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: just you and me. So I would talk to them,

771
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 1: and then a minute or two in, I go, well,

772
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,320
Speaker 1: you know what you're doing. You're actually on a stage

773
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 1: talking into a microphone and four hundred people are listening,

774
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 1: and I go, so you're public speaking right, but but

775
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 1: your you know, so this whole thing and they're like,

776
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I go so, you know, still scary. But

777
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 1: so I did this with a lady. This was in Queensland,

778
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: Queenstown in New Zealand, at the Hilton, a big auditorium.

779
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: Lots of people get I do exactly what I just

780
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: described to you, and I just start talking to the

781
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: lady and then I see her face go white. So

782
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:46,240
Speaker 1: we're about forty five seconds in. Her face goes white,

783
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: her eyes go back in her head, and she's she faints.

784
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:55,240
Speaker 1: She faints on stage in front of four hundred people.

785
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: I catch her right, so she doesn't just clunk on

786
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: the floor. So I catch her and I lay her

787
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 1: on the And yeah, fair to say that wasn't the

788
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: pinnacle of my speaking career or the demonstrating how we

789
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 1: might overcome fear.

790
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,760
Speaker 2: I learned how to ski on the black double diamon.

791
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:25,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was as as okay as it could turn out.

792
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: It did. I ended up giving her half a dozen

793
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: free coaching sessions. I mean, she wasn't mad at me

794
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:39,399
Speaker 1: or anything. She was and obviously you know it did.

795
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: It was a complete fuck.

796
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 2: Up hot Like, did she ever get on a stage

797
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 2: again or so she relative stage?

798
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah she did. So we ended up doing obviously,

799
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 1: I came back and we did coaching. I can't remember

800
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: how much. I think it was like five or six sessions.

801
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: That was my way of apologizing and gifting her something

802
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 1: that might be of value to her. But even before

803
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 1: I left, she was fine.

804
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 2: She was more.

805
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: Not even embarrassed, but just like amazed. I guess, like

806
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 1: she wasn't angry at me or and she didn't get hurt,

807
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 1: but definitely you know one of those moments that you

808
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: have as a speaker and you're like, why the buck

809
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 1: did I do this? Like talk about Yeah, so that

810
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 1: was the talk of the conference. The lady that Craig

811
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: got on stage that he made faint so great, great example?

812
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,720
Speaker 2: Not it it made an impact?

813
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: It did it? Did? He made? I love chatting to you.

814
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: It's getting way towards or passed dinner time where you

815
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 1: are tell people how they can have a little bit

816
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:52,879
Speaker 1: more Bobby in their life.

817
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 2: You can go to Robert Caapuccio dot com. You can

818
00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 2: go to the stuff abantidote dot com, or just chat

819
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 2: me up on LinkedIn.

820
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:05,800
Speaker 1: Perfect Thank you as always, before we go what's for dinner?

821
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm having brisket, look at you and what else.

822
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 2: There's a lot to that story that I'm not going

823
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 2: to get into, but uh yeah, I'm probably gonna have

824
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 2: some corsa as well, maybe some broccoli.

825
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: You're making me hungry. We'll say goodbye Fair, but thanks again.

826
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 1: Thanks for being a big part of the show Mate.

827
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 2: We love you, love talking to you, Jess.

828
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:31,280
Speaker 1: Thanks buddy,