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Speaker 1: Approche production.

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Speaker 2: Before we begin, a warning. This episode discusses the death

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Speaker 2: of a woman and the discovery of her remains. If

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Speaker 2: these topics are unsettling, please take care while listening. On

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Speaker 2: the thirteenth of December twenty seventeen, Anna Jenkins left her

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Speaker 2: hotel in Penang, Malaysia. She was traveling with her husband.

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Speaker 2: She had an appointment at the dentists, where she'd been

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Speaker 2: many times before. Anna was a devoted mother of two,

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Speaker 2: deeply religious, and well traveled, but that day she never returned.

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Speaker 2: What began as a missing person report quickly became something

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Speaker 2: far more disturbing because as her family search for answers,

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Speaker 2: they were met with DeLay's, contradictions and silence. In this

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Speaker 2: two part episode of The Missing Matter, Ana's son Greg

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Speaker 2: takes us inside the year's long journey to uncover what happened.

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Speaker 2: Because Anna matters.

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Speaker 3: Welcome everybody to the Missing Matter podcast. Today, our conversation

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Speaker 3: is traveling all the way over to Baghdad to discuss

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Speaker 3: the case of Anna Jenkins, a devoted mother of two.

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Speaker 3: Anna was born in Malaysia, was fluent in five languages,

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Speaker 3: and was extremely religious, with a strong Catholic faith. After

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Speaker 3: moving back to Australia. In the late seventies, Anna would

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Speaker 3: often travel back to Malaysia to visit her elderly mother.

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Speaker 3: On the fifth of descent. In twenty seventeen, Anna and

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Speaker 3: her husband Frances flew from Adelaide Dupenang with Malaysian Airlines

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Speaker 3: and called her son Greg on the phone to let

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Speaker 3: him and his sister know that they had arrived safely

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Speaker 3: at the hotel, that it was nice, which was usual practice.

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Speaker 3: This would be the last trip Anna would ever make. Today,

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Speaker 3: I am very fortunate to be speaking to a man

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Speaker 3: who has a determination like no other in seeking justice

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Speaker 3: for his mum, doing his best to ensure that authorities

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Speaker 3: are aware of practices that need attention and change so

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Speaker 3: that no other families have to cope with what his

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Speaker 3: family have had to endure. Welcome to the Missing Mata Podcast,

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Speaker 3: Greg Jenkins.

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Speaker 4: Thank you very much for having me, and thanks for

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Speaker 4: giving Mama a voice to tell her side of the

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Speaker 4: story as well.

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Speaker 3: So appreciate it absolutely. And look, this is a very

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Speaker 3: big story, everybody. There's lots of information here. Greg is

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Speaker 3: an encyclopedia into his mom's case and my desk people

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Speaker 3: can't see it, but it's covered with documents and paperwork,

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Speaker 3: and I have tried my best to pull out the

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Speaker 3: key pieces of information that we're going to talk about.

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Speaker 1: I did want to acknowledge straight.

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Speaker 3: Up that it is your mum's birthday today and she

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Speaker 3: would be turning seventy four. That's always a hard time,

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Speaker 3: isn't it when we have a loved one who's no

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Speaker 3: longer with us and celebrating those big milestones.

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Speaker 1: So I hope you're doing okay.

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Speaker 3: And I actually thought it was kind of precious that

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Speaker 3: we were talking about her today in hope of doing

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Speaker 3: the right thing for her.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you.

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Speaker 4: When you're one hundred percent right, you always expect your

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Speaker 4: parents to be there, you know, and be unbreakable and

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Speaker 4: there forever, so whether it's a victim of crime or

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Speaker 4: whether they just passed away from old age, it's these

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Speaker 4: little moments of birthdays, Christmases, news like the small celebrations

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Speaker 4: where they say time hills the wounds, but to me,

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Speaker 4: time just opens them up even more because it makes

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Speaker 4: you miss them a lot more. And especially Mum was

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Speaker 4: such a good cook. Even on her birthday, she'd be cooking.

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Speaker 4: And now I'm going to do it myself, so little

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Speaker 4: selfish on her behalf, you know what I mean. But

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Speaker 4: it's those little things that you really miss and time

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Speaker 4: will never ever ever heal those types of wounds for

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Speaker 4: everyone that's lost a loved.

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Speaker 3: One, and my heart goes out to you and to

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Speaker 3: your sister Jen as well, who I've been chatting with

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Speaker 3: today and we're going to.

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Speaker 1: Sort of talk a little bit about her.

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Speaker 3: But I want to sort of keep this episode more

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Speaker 3: about you telling us the story without me sort of

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Speaker 3: putting my ten cents worth in which I usually do.

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Speaker 1: Because my mum is a missing person, like everyone.

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Speaker 3: Knows, I wanted to give you the platform to really

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Speaker 3: tell everybody as much detail in the space that we've

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Speaker 3: got to do it, and so I have been doing

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Speaker 3: lots and lots of reading. If I can start by

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Speaker 3: telling everyone that you and I we kind of didn't

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Speaker 3: meet properly, but we did meet at the Leave a

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Speaker 3: Light On event that Susie Ratcliffe and Brian Litley held

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Speaker 3: in Melbourne back in October last year. Your case is

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Speaker 3: unique in the point that your mum and dad traveled

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Speaker 3: overseas and we're going on a holiday. Your mum would

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Speaker 3: travel often back to Malaysia to go and visit your grandmother,

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Speaker 3: and so she was very well traveled and experienced in

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Speaker 3: that field and went on a trip with your dad.

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Speaker 3: A trip to the dentist on the thirteenth of December

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Speaker 3: in twenty seventeen changed everything. Do you want to tell

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Speaker 3: us a little bit about when your mum and I

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Speaker 3: disappeared and what was happening and what was everyone feeling.

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Speaker 4: So I was away at the time, So I was

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Speaker 4: doing a bit of decompression in Hawaii after doing a

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Speaker 4: trip with the Defense Force, and so we have to

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Speaker 4: put our phones away, and when we finally got access

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Speaker 4: to the phones, I had something like one hundred and

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Speaker 4: twenty odd miscalls and messages from a sister. Now, she

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Speaker 4: normally is very hard to get a hold of as

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Speaker 4: her brother, so normally it's just it's definitely something weird

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Speaker 4: if I get more than two miscalls from it. But

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Speaker 4: having all of those messages like something was off then,

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Speaker 4: and then that's how I first got notified. And Jim

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Speaker 4: was obviously talking weird dad and also the hotel staff.

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Speaker 4: So Mum went to the dentist. She'd been seeing that

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Speaker 4: dentist since twenty twelve. The dentist over there, the work

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Speaker 4: apparently is a lot better. It's a lot cheaper, and

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Speaker 4: she's just more comfortable because her and dad would travel there,

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Speaker 4: you know, four to six times a year. So she

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Speaker 4: just had an appointment. She was getting a retainer refitted,

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Speaker 4: so she had an appointment on the Wednesday, and then

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Speaker 4: that same Saturday, in the same week, she was going

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Speaker 4: to basically get a finalized and then pay the bill.

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Speaker 4: So she wanted to go out and have the appointment,

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Speaker 4: then see her mum, who lives in Malaysia, or used

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Speaker 4: to live in Malaysia, So she was going to do that,

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Speaker 4: see her mom, and then come back and then her

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Speaker 4: and dad were going to go for dinner. That's the

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Speaker 4: circumstances behind it. Dad at the time was suffering from

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Speaker 4: breast cancer, prostate cancer. There was onset of bow cancer

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Speaker 4: as well, so he had quite a lot of illments.

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Speaker 4: Plus he started having the onset of dementia at that time,

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Speaker 4: so he wasn't feeling one hundred percent. So he walked

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Speaker 4: Moum out to see her off, which he always does.

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Speaker 4: She got in a taxi, he went up for a

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Speaker 4: sleep and then that was pretty much the last he

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Speaker 4: had seen of her. So he received a phone call

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Speaker 4: at five twenty two pm on the thirteenth of December

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Speaker 4: twenty seventeen, with mum saying that someone was trying to

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Speaker 4: kidnap her and they wanted her passport.

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Speaker 5: That was basically the ransom.

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Speaker 4: So if I can fast forward after doing all of

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Speaker 4: my investigations myself, like just asking people, I traveled to

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Speaker 4: Indonesia to ask people about the human trafficking, etc. An

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Speaker 4: Australian passport is worth up to one hundred thousand US

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Speaker 4: in Malaysia, and because sex trafficking and human trafficking are

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Speaker 4: so fit through there, what they can do is they

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Speaker 4: can utilize an international passport ie Australian. An Australian passport

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Speaker 4: will give you access without a visa to one hundred

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Speaker 4: and sixty nine different countries leaving from Malaysia. That's the

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Speaker 4: way that they can kind of get the girls, the

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Speaker 4: children and the people out of Malaysia.

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Speaker 5: So for the young.

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Speaker 4: Girls, for instance, a person can imitate a school teacher.

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Speaker 4: They can utilize that passport and they can take up

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Speaker 4: to twenty to thirty people out of the country. And

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Speaker 4: those twenty to thirty young kids don't have to have

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Speaker 4: a passport, So that individual with the Australian passport. He

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Speaker 4: will be the adult in charge of them and that's

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Speaker 4: how they traffic it. And the girls move every twenty

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Speaker 4: four to forty eight hours around Malaysia until they do

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Speaker 4: have an opportunity, ie to grab a passport to get

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Speaker 4: them out of the country. Yeah, so mum made that

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Speaker 4: call to dad at five twenty two pm that day.

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Speaker 4: He said to come back to the hotel as quick

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Speaker 4: as possible, and then the phone cut out. And that's

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Speaker 4: a last that anyone had ever heard from mum.

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Speaker 3: And I've got in my notes here that she was

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Speaker 3: seen on the CCTV footage outside the hotel when she

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Speaker 3: was waiting for an uber at two forty seven with

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Speaker 3: your dad's in that footage as well. Yes, that's not

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Speaker 3: a very big timeline, is it. By the time she

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Speaker 3: leads she goes to the dentist. It's confirmed she turned

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Speaker 3: up and went to the dentist appointment and then left.

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Speaker 3: I know too that you spoke to the gentleman who

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Speaker 3: picked her up and drove her.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to talk about that a little bit?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's interesting you mentioned the photos. That was

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Speaker 4: a big thing when something like that happens, when you've

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Speaker 4: never been involved in an incident, or you've never been

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Speaker 4: involved as a victim of crime, something as big as

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Speaker 4: a missing person and kidnapp person, etc. You fall into

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Speaker 4: being naive that the authorities will take control of it.

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Speaker 4: Plus also the Australian government with their embassy or their

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Speaker 4: High COMMISSI will take control of the case and everything

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Speaker 4: will be okay, and you'll be fully informed and it'll

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Speaker 4: go as if it was something that occurred in Australia.

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Speaker 5: For instance.

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Speaker 4: We were very naive to that fact, and so all

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Speaker 4: of those photos that you see with the mum and

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Speaker 4: dad standing at the front of the hotel, that was

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Speaker 4: me getting that, not the police. They just decided that

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Speaker 4: Dad was lying. They accused us of thirty two false

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Speaker 4: allegations from me domestic violence, mum running away, Mum's found

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Speaker 4: someone else. The chief of police for the Panang District

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Speaker 4: said that she's just wandered into the jungle and there's

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Speaker 4: bananas and mangoes in there, So give it a couple

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Speaker 4: of days, she'll be fine and then she'll come back out.

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Speaker 5: And that struck me.

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Speaker 4: As disgusting as the chief of police from the Panang district.

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Speaker 5: That's his summary.

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Speaker 3: They're hard words to hear, Greg, like, that's not something

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Speaker 3: a family wants to hear when their mum is missing.

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Speaker 3: I mean I was reading too that they had mentioned

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Speaker 3: about the fact that her hair was thinning, so she

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Speaker 3: was wearing these clips with little hair extensions on them

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Speaker 3: and they were missing, and her deodorant was missing. So

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Speaker 3: they just assumed that she deliberately tried to disappear herself

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Speaker 3: and that there was no need for any search in

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Speaker 3: the comments by police, which really upset me to read that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and then just started making stuff up, which

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Speaker 4: came out in the coronial inquest, which we'll talk about later.

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Speaker 4: But a guy that can't speak English can't read English,

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Speaker 4: he's seen apparently mum had written on this imaginary diary

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Speaker 4: that they've made up that she was involved in drugs

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Speaker 4: in Australia, so both her and the family and she's

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Speaker 4: running away because of a potential arrest. All right, if

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Speaker 4: that's what you think, where's.

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Speaker 3: The actual evidence and just big assumptions.

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Speaker 4: There wasn't any, So they're just making up stories of

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Speaker 4: mom always buys clothes and she's got horrible taste, but

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Speaker 4: she will always buy me clothes and Jen clothes. It

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Speaker 4: was just because she's such a beautiful human. So she

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Speaker 4: bought me a T shirt. It was an orange T shirt.

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Speaker 4: I still got it in the wrapping and it's got

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Speaker 4: the word Escape on it, so Escapes a brand in Malaysia.

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Speaker 4: It's also to do with there's a butterfly farm over

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Speaker 4: an Inpenang and that's the link to it. So they've

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Speaker 4: seen the Escape T shirt and said, well, that's a

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Speaker 4: subliminal message that she's trying to send to everyone that

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Speaker 4: she's trying to escape.

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Speaker 5: That was the line of theory.

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Speaker 4: So going back to your original question, our start point

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Speaker 4: didn't actually start for a couple of months because we

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Speaker 4: just thought the police are going to handle everything and

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Speaker 4: then they'll just let us know, you know, where everything's at.

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Speaker 4: And then it wasn't until probably about a month later

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Speaker 4: where I realized that they weren't doing anything and had

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Speaker 4: to kind of take that on ourselves. So Jen was

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Speaker 4: a single mom with two young kids. I don't have

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Speaker 4: kids or anything like that, so we kind of sat

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Speaker 4: down and said, all right, well, how do we nut

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Speaker 4: this out? So we kind of made the split that

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Speaker 4: Gen will stay back with dad and look after him

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Speaker 4: and then come over whenever she has the opportunity to

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Speaker 4: which she did quite a few times, and then I

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Speaker 4: would basically continually go over there and do the searching

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Speaker 4: on our behalf and then we just bounce through ideas

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Speaker 4: between them. Also had help with writing the initial stages

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Speaker 4: with another company called Panoptic Solutions. So the CEO, the

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Speaker 4: founder of that company, is my best mate, so he's

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Speaker 4: got a lot of compacts and that's kind of where

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Speaker 4: we started from not having any experience in this as well.

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Speaker 4: So the other thing that you don't realize is the

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Speaker 4: lack of assistance from the Australian government or the High

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Speaker 4: Commission will not get involved in international cases. I was

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Speaker 4: banned from speaking to the Australian Federal Police that are

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Speaker 4: located in kl so when we're trying to get a

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Speaker 4: start point because I said, like, if this happened in Australia,

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Speaker 4: so I don't even talk about mum's case, what are some.

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Speaker 5: Things that I can do?

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Speaker 4: Because I've got no experience in looking for a kidnapped mother,

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Speaker 4: couldn't get anything. So that's where myself, my sister and Troy.

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Speaker 5: Clayden from Panoby's Solutions and his team.

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Speaker 4: That's when we sat down and then we started splitting

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Speaker 4: up Malaysia and that's kind.

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Speaker 5: Of where that started.

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Speaker 4: But we're probably about a month and a half behind

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Speaker 4: the apel.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's because you're putting your trust into the police,

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Speaker 3: right You're hoping that they're actually doing things and looking

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Speaker 3: at CCTV footage, I mean there are pages and pages

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Speaker 3: and pages I've read that you have written going through

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Speaker 3: all of the searches you were doing. At times, you

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Speaker 3: were searching twenty two hours a day, you know, and

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Speaker 3: going back and forth to Malaysia so many times, like

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Speaker 3: plus thirty times at that point, trying to actually do

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Speaker 3: the work yourself because the police seemingly we're making assumptions

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Speaker 3: and just brushed it off.

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Speaker 1: As not important.

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Speaker 3: And it makes it a whole another level of difficulty

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Speaker 3: because your mum was actually an Australian citizen by this point,

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Speaker 3: so technically you would hope that the Australian government would

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Speaker 3: actually be helping and assisting, but you found that that

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Speaker 3: still today is probably a problem in the case that

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Speaker 3: we're probably going to have a little bit of a

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Speaker 3: chat about further.

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Speaker 1: Down the track.

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Speaker 3: I know from what I've listened to you and we've

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Speaker 3: been talking and back and forth in emails and things

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Speaker 3: like that, that your mum was kidnapped. That's what the

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Speaker 3: status is that we believe. But she was also missing

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Speaker 3: for a period of time, and I calculated what that

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Speaker 3: timeline was for you. So she was technically missing from

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Speaker 3: the time she went missing on the thirteenth of December

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Speaker 3: to the time that you found her remains. We're talking

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Speaker 3: nine hundred and fourteen days, correct. What I wanted to

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Speaker 3: add to that, Greg is since she's been located, you've

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Speaker 3: now been seeking justice and finding help from authorities for

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Speaker 3: two thousand, nine hundred and seventy six days on top

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Speaker 3: of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is wild.

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Speaker 3: I'm so shocked that it's taken so long and you're

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Speaker 3: still right up until January this year, you're still getting

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Speaker 3: doors shut in your face, You're not being answered, you're

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Speaker 3: not being listened to. And that's why I wanted to

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Speaker 3: bring you into this space to try and tell people

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Speaker 3: about your journey, Jen's journey, your dad's journey as well

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Speaker 3: to find your mum and what happened after you actually

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Speaker 3: found her, the trauma that comes with that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So I know that we're nearing three thousand days.

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Speaker 4: The fact that what continually drives us is obviously Mum

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Speaker 4: and Dad were extremely stubborn, but the pen that you're

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Speaker 4: holding there now, like Dad would say it's blue, Mom

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Speaker 4: would say it's bluer, and I go, I think it's

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Speaker 4: the bluest scene that's ever been blue, you.

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Speaker 5: Know what I mean.

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Speaker 4: We're so stuff and especially when when we feel as

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Speaker 4: though we are right.

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Speaker 5: So if we feel it, like.

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Speaker 4: Strongly in our hearts and our minds, that what we

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Speaker 4: are doing is correct, then we will fight tooth and

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Speaker 4: nail to get the answers. And that's kind of ingrained

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Speaker 4: in me, It's ingrained in Gen, It's ingrained in Gen's boys.

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Speaker 4: The whole family is a bunch of stubborn pricks. But

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Speaker 4: that's what gives us the drive to keep going. And

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Speaker 4: the fact that although I'm getting doors slammed in my

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Speaker 4: face because no one wants to deal with it, there's

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Speaker 4: so many points of validation that going. You know what,

321
00:17:35,681 --> 00:17:39,080
Speaker 4: we are one on the right track. So as we

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Speaker 4: scale back to looking at the start of the search,

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Speaker 4: the fact that you know, I started identifying, like when

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Speaker 4: Mom first went missing, I got there within a day

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Speaker 4: and a half, Mon went missing, On the thirteenth, I

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Speaker 4: flew back from Hawaii. I had an hour and a

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Speaker 4: half I think back in Australia and then had people

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Speaker 4: meet me at the airport, give me some clothes, and

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Speaker 4: then off I went to Malaysia as soon as I

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Speaker 4: got there, picked up Dad and then we basically started

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Speaker 4: driving around because he was still there at the time

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Speaker 4: and he was beside himself. But we still managed to isolate.

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Speaker 4: So I found six CCTV cameras which would then identify

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Speaker 4: if Mum was forcibly taken, if she just went for

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Speaker 4: a walk, if she got lost, if she went with

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Speaker 4: someone else. All the directions were covered and the police

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Speaker 4: refused to even bother looking at it.

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Speaker 5: Because I kept probably.

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Speaker 4: Maybe three or four times a day I need answers

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Speaker 4: on the CCTV. They didn't get back to me till

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Speaker 4: six to twelve weeks later for some of them, and

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Speaker 4: then the rest of them they just never bother checking,

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Speaker 4: and after six weeks a lot of those CCTV reride herself, so.

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Speaker 5: It's gone forever. And that was the point.

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Speaker 4: Where we realized that this whole journey is going to

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Speaker 4: be isolated between us and what we do. So we

347
00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:00,920
Speaker 4: could either turn around and walk away and go all right,

348
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Speaker 4: well this is the end of the story. The chapter

349
00:19:03,721 --> 00:19:06,440
Speaker 4: closes here, or we could put on the gloves and

350
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Speaker 4: go you know what. This isn't right, and it's not

351
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Speaker 4: right for Mum, it's not right for every foreigner that

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Speaker 4: visits Malaysia, every Australian that visits Malaysia, and even the

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Speaker 4: locals in Malaysia, the amount of support that we've had

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Speaker 4: from them to go this is not right. This happens

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Speaker 4: so many times. It's such a broken system. Please don't

356
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Speaker 4: stop fighting the fact that we're able to be given

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Speaker 4: a platform because we are foreigners, so we don't have

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Speaker 4: to so much abide by the rules and regulations that

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Speaker 4: a lot of the locals get so they get intimidated,

360
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Speaker 4: they get bullied to the point.

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00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:41,080
Speaker 5: Where they just drop the case.

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Speaker 4: So the fact that we started getting all of these

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Speaker 4: little things that go, you know what, what we're doing

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Speaker 4: here is validated. That's kind of where it kicked off

365
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 4: with the searching. And like I said, we sat with

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Speaker 4: Troy and his team and the idea was I would

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Speaker 4: go there between two to four weeks, just take leave

368
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Speaker 4: from work, so go there for two to four weeks,

369
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Speaker 4: go home, have a sleep for a week, he come back,

370
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Speaker 4: and then just keep smashing as much as I can.

371
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Speaker 4: And so we'd section off parts of malays So always

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Speaker 4: start with Penang where mum was last or her last

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Speaker 4: known location, and then from there i'd go across the

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Speaker 4: bridge onto the mainland and then ended up. In three years,

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Speaker 4: we covered over one hundred and twenty thousand kilometers done.

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Speaker 4: I would probably say just over five thousand. I'll call

377
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Speaker 4: them interviews, but just talking to people that may be

378
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Speaker 4: able to give us some type of clue, whether that's

379
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Speaker 4: we thought we'd seen her, so possible sightings, et cetera,

380
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Speaker 4: et cetera. So that's kind of where it all began.

381
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Speaker 4: And then how we started to get momentum was those

382
00:20:47,241 --> 00:20:49,641
Speaker 4: little points of validation to go, hey, I think we're

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Speaker 4: onto something here.

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Speaker 1: And then you did.

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Speaker 3: You found the uber driver who took your mum in

386
00:20:55,521 --> 00:20:59,640
Speaker 3: the car and dropped her off. So tell us about

387
00:20:59,681 --> 00:21:02,281
Speaker 3: how you found him and the fact that the police

388
00:21:02,321 --> 00:21:05,400
Speaker 3: weren't really interested in finding him, and how important that was.

389
00:21:06,281 --> 00:21:09,561
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I managed to get his number. I was

390
00:21:09,561 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 4: sitting at the police station, so we would rock up

391
00:21:11,961 --> 00:21:16,120
Speaker 4: to have a meeting with the investigation officer who he

392
00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 4: was not right to be a police officer. So there

393
00:21:19,801 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 4: was a couple of times where we would rock up,

394
00:21:21,521 --> 00:21:23,440
Speaker 4: we'd organize a meeting and a time to do an

395
00:21:23,481 --> 00:21:25,120
Speaker 4: update on the case and what is it that we

396
00:21:25,201 --> 00:21:27,600
Speaker 4: can do to help, and then we would see him

397
00:21:27,681 --> 00:21:30,360
Speaker 4: driving out and he would just wouldn't answer our calls.

398
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Speaker 4: And it's like he just continually kept avoiding us. I

399
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,761
Speaker 4: can speak a little bit of Malaysian, or enough to

400
00:21:36,761 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 4: get me by. The Malaysian police don't know that. I

401
00:21:39,921 --> 00:21:43,001
Speaker 4: overheard him talking in his office to his other staff

402
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,961
Speaker 4: that this guy gives me a headache. I wish he

403
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:48,920
Speaker 4: would just go back to Australia, leave us alone, and

404
00:21:49,001 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 4: I want this case to go away. So there were

405
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 4: the three key things that he said during his conversation.

406
00:21:55,041 --> 00:21:57,321
Speaker 3: So I have written that in my notes because I

407
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,041
Speaker 3: was like, the police didn't know that you could speak

408
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 3: Malaysian and that you were listening to their language. I

409
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,640
Speaker 3: think it's valid to be able to sit there and

410
00:22:05,681 --> 00:22:08,361
Speaker 3: say they didn't realize and they were talking and this

411
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,481
Speaker 3: is what they were saying, and how derogative they were

412
00:22:10,561 --> 00:22:13,761
Speaker 3: of me as the son with a missing mum trying

413
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Speaker 3: to find his mum. They probably won't listen to this podcast.

414
00:22:17,241 --> 00:22:18,561
Speaker 5: They will because I send it to him.

415
00:22:19,521 --> 00:22:20,160
Speaker 1: Okay, good.

416
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,801
Speaker 4: Yeah, So every investigation officer, I've still got their number,

417
00:22:24,241 --> 00:22:27,561
Speaker 4: so anytime something comes out, I'll always send it to him,

418
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,761
Speaker 4: just to let them know that they may have moved on,

419
00:22:30,961 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 4: but I haven't forgiven them or forgotten the lack of

420
00:22:34,721 --> 00:22:38,241
Speaker 4: disrespect that they gave mum. So yeah, anything that comes out,

421
00:22:38,441 --> 00:22:40,881
Speaker 4: I'll always send it to them individually.

422
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,401
Speaker 5: Surprisingly, they haven't blocked me yet. So yeah.

423
00:22:44,441 --> 00:22:47,521
Speaker 4: So during one of the interviews with the investigation officer,

424
00:22:48,001 --> 00:22:50,521
Speaker 4: because they weren't doing anything, I just flat out asked,

425
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:52,521
Speaker 4: I said, can I grab his number? And I said,

426
00:22:52,521 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 4: I'll do it myself. He sent it to me via

427
00:22:55,201 --> 00:22:57,761
Speaker 4: text message. He kind of ignored me during our face

428
00:22:57,761 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 4: to face, but then I managed to finally, because I'm

429
00:22:59,721 --> 00:23:03,321
Speaker 4: quite persistent, just continually texted him and then he finally

430
00:23:03,961 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 4: gave me his name and he's what's app number. So

431
00:23:05,921 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 4: I spoke to this guy and he came out picked

432
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,641
Speaker 4: me up from the hotel, and then I just asked

433
00:23:11,721 --> 00:23:13,681
Speaker 4: him to take me on the route that you went.

434
00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 5: So I met with him four times.

435
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:19,241
Speaker 4: One of how not the Solutions Operations manager used to

436
00:23:19,321 --> 00:23:22,681
Speaker 4: be one of the lead detectives in the Northern Territory

437
00:23:22,761 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 4: Missing Persons Unit. I asked if he would come to

438
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,481
Speaker 4: Malaysia and if he would help me with questioning, because

439
00:23:29,921 --> 00:23:33,721
Speaker 4: I'm pretty direct with my questioning. It's like, did you

440
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,561
Speaker 4: kill my mum? And if he says no, it's like, well,

441
00:23:36,561 --> 00:23:38,281
Speaker 4: I don't believe you, you know what I mean, Like

442
00:23:38,281 --> 00:23:40,801
Speaker 4: I'm pretty I'm pretty blunt, and I don't have the

443
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,201
Speaker 4: experience to go all right, well, what's all the circumstances

444
00:23:44,201 --> 00:23:45,441
Speaker 4: surrounding that sought?

445
00:23:45,521 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 5: Brought him over and he did a line.

446
00:23:46,961 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 4: Of questioning and is he kept the same persona throughout

447
00:23:52,521 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 4: the four times, So same answers to the questions. But

448
00:23:56,441 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 4: it just the more I think about it, the more

449
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 4: strikingly odd it is. And again with my with my

450
00:24:01,961 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 4: research that I did so with affluent air, because the

451
00:24:06,321 --> 00:24:10,201
Speaker 4: taxi drivers work with the Chinese gangs.

452
00:24:09,761 --> 00:24:11,041
Speaker 5: That protect these areas.

453
00:24:11,281 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 4: Oh well, so if they see someone that's a foreigner,

454
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 4: or they see that they've got lots of money, what

455
00:24:18,721 --> 00:24:21,001
Speaker 4: they'll do is I've send the message to these gangs.

456
00:24:21,001 --> 00:24:25,761
Speaker 4: So with these gangs, they're allowed to commit crimes. But

457
00:24:26,001 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 4: it cannot be against anyone that lives within that state.

458
00:24:31,801 --> 00:24:34,961
Speaker 4: That's how they get their money, and so they get

459
00:24:35,001 --> 00:24:38,481
Speaker 4: tip offs from these taxi drivers. I thought Penang was

460
00:24:38,521 --> 00:24:42,681
Speaker 4: such a safe country, Like I had no idea about

461
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,481
Speaker 4: the level of crime and what happens.

462
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:50,281
Speaker 5: Behind closed doors. Like it just blows me away.

463
00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:52,721
Speaker 4: Like even some of the posts on TikTok that I do,

464
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,561
Speaker 4: there's people that go, there's no way this can happen.

465
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,641
Speaker 4: And then I'll do a private message and I'll send

466
00:24:57,681 --> 00:25:02,281
Speaker 4: them the actual factual documentation, whether that's transcripts, whether that's

467
00:25:02,681 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 4: news reports, whether that's text messages and police and it

468
00:25:06,281 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 4: blows their mind and going, I can't believe this is

469
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 4: happening in Penangular in Malaysia.

470
00:25:12,281 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 5: The crime there is out of control and it's all linked.

471
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:22,321
Speaker 3: So let's let's talk about how you cope with emotionally

472
00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:25,681
Speaker 3: not having any answers for so long. Were there any

473
00:25:25,761 --> 00:25:28,881
Speaker 3: specific moments that felt uniquely devastating for you?

474
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 4: So many every step of the way, I've felt as

475
00:25:34,921 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 4: though like we get one step forward and then somewhere

476
00:25:38,921 --> 00:25:42,121
Speaker 4: along the line, someone kicks us in the guts and pushes.

477
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,561
Speaker 5: Us, you know, two to three steps backwards.

478
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 4: There's been a lot of times where I've had conversations

479
00:25:47,681 --> 00:25:50,681
Speaker 4: with friends and a cycle why by the keep going

480
00:25:50,761 --> 00:25:54,360
Speaker 4: if you're fighting against a broken system, and like some

481
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 4: people understand that some people don't. The amount of roadblocks

482
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 4: that I've had just continually drives me to keep going,

483
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,241
Speaker 4: because if we've kind of run against the brick wall,

484
00:26:05,481 --> 00:26:08,801
Speaker 4: someone would say this is the end of it, this

485
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 4: is as far as this goes. But the fact that

486
00:26:11,521 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 4: I just get ignored or I just get told a

487
00:26:15,441 --> 00:26:20,281
Speaker 4: load of shit, so whether that's lies, whether that's false information,

488
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,441
Speaker 4: that's the trigger for me to go, hang on a second.

489
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,321
Speaker 4: I've just found a little thread and now I'm just

490
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:28,841
Speaker 4: going to keep pulling it until it basically opens up.

491
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,401
Speaker 5: So that there's been so many.

492
00:26:30,201 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 4: Heartbreaks along the way, and I can't think of the

493
00:26:33,441 --> 00:26:36,001
Speaker 4: amount of times where I've just bull myyes out, whether

494
00:26:36,041 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 4: that's out at a pub, whether that's I went to

495
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 4: an opera concert, heard some music and then just boom,

496
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,481
Speaker 4: just bull myyes out Brooklyn nine to nine, which is

497
00:26:46,521 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 4: a comedy show where I like to watch things like

498
00:26:48,921 --> 00:26:51,881
Speaker 4: that where your brain doesn't have to think because your

499
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 4: brain's constantly in that loop twenty four to seven for me,

500
00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:58,001
Speaker 4: So I try and watch things like Family Guy or

501
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 4: Brooklyn nine nine where my brain just doesn't have to

502
00:27:00,961 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 4: think about it. It's just and so, yeah, I've crashed times.

503
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,041
Speaker 4: Getting calls from defat is one of the big heartbreakers,

504
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:13,321
Speaker 4: because again, you're trying to fix a problem for someone

505
00:27:13,321 --> 00:27:15,721
Speaker 4: else as well as trying to get answers for your

506
00:27:15,721 --> 00:27:18,201
Speaker 4: own problem, and it's like, no one gives a shit.

507
00:27:19,961 --> 00:27:22,641
Speaker 3: Hard system, isn't it. There's a hard system to crack through,

508
00:27:22,721 --> 00:27:26,641
Speaker 3: and I know that all too well myself. Unfortunately, it's

509
00:27:26,761 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 3: not easy, and a bit like yourself, the brick walls

510
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,481
Speaker 3: are up and I'm kind of triggered as well by things.

511
00:27:33,521 --> 00:27:37,001
Speaker 3: So I keep pushing forward as well. But I would

512
00:27:37,001 --> 00:27:40,481
Speaker 3: say for me personally, it is very exhausting. How are

513
00:27:40,521 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 3: you coping at the moment.

514
00:27:43,521 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 5: I use humor a lot.

515
00:27:45,921 --> 00:27:49,681
Speaker 4: That's kind of mine and Gen's outlet, and that's how

516
00:27:49,681 --> 00:27:52,521
Speaker 4: we deal with drief and trauma, try.

517
00:27:52,321 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 5: And talk to people.

518
00:27:53,201 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 4: But yeah, I like to internalize things, and to be honest,

519
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,481
Speaker 4: I haven't dealt with it. If I'm straight up and honest,

520
00:28:01,521 --> 00:28:04,801
Speaker 4: I try and compartmentalize it. Sometimes it will come out.

521
00:28:05,041 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 4: If I drink alcohol so I've tried to limit that

522
00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:10,961
Speaker 4: as well. That's the easiest answer is I haven't dealt

523
00:28:11,001 --> 00:28:13,360
Speaker 4: with it yet because I don't know how to, and

524
00:28:13,441 --> 00:28:15,321
Speaker 4: I don't want to deal with it at the moment

525
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:17,881
Speaker 4: because I feel as though if I do, then I'll

526
00:28:17,921 --> 00:28:19,561
Speaker 4: come crashing down and I won't.

527
00:28:19,281 --> 00:28:22,601
Speaker 5: Have the energy or the drive to keep pushing.

528
00:28:22,681 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 4: So that's probably not the right answer.

529
00:28:26,281 --> 00:28:29,401
Speaker 3: But that's your answer though, that's how you feel. And

530
00:28:29,441 --> 00:28:34,521
Speaker 3: thanks for being so honest, because it is hard and verbalizing.

531
00:28:33,921 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 1: It is actually hard to write.

532
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:38,361
Speaker 3: It's hard to sit there and say I'm actually not

533
00:28:38,521 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 3: coping very well. Today, we wanted to bring Jen on

534
00:28:41,841 --> 00:28:45,641
Speaker 3: gener your sister. She's in Adelaide and we were trying

535
00:28:45,681 --> 00:28:48,241
Speaker 3: to see if we could make it work, but she's

536
00:28:48,281 --> 00:28:49,081
Speaker 3: extremely busy.

537
00:28:49,161 --> 00:28:50,281
Speaker 1: She's a single.

538
00:28:50,041 --> 00:28:53,881
Speaker 3: Mum, and I have been sort of chatting back and

539
00:28:53,921 --> 00:28:56,041
Speaker 3: forth with her on message today and I said to her,

540
00:28:56,081 --> 00:28:58,841
Speaker 3: would you be okay if I brought some of what

541
00:28:58,921 --> 00:29:02,241
Speaker 3: she told me into this chat today? And I feel

542
00:29:02,241 --> 00:29:06,041
Speaker 3: like it's probably a good space to talk about because

543
00:29:06,641 --> 00:29:09,721
Speaker 3: what she told me was that as a mother herself,

544
00:29:09,961 --> 00:29:12,641
Speaker 3: she's torn between the grief of not being able to

545
00:29:12,681 --> 00:29:16,561
Speaker 3: celebrate special days like Mother's Day and having to put

546
00:29:16,601 --> 00:29:19,041
Speaker 3: on a happy face for her kids who deserve to

547
00:29:19,081 --> 00:29:23,121
Speaker 3: feel like they've made her feel special too. It was

548
00:29:23,201 --> 00:29:26,361
Speaker 3: just such a crazy thought to think that it's actually

549
00:29:26,361 --> 00:29:28,721
Speaker 3: Anna's birthday today as well. And I just wanted to

550
00:29:28,721 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 3: wrap my arms around both of you and say, oh,

551
00:29:30,921 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 3: I really feel for you because it is very tricky

552
00:29:34,401 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 3: losing a mum and they're precious to us, and you know,

553
00:29:39,321 --> 00:29:41,881
Speaker 3: when something happens, we want to make sure that you

554
00:29:41,921 --> 00:29:45,081
Speaker 3: know we have followed through and we do everything we

555
00:29:45,161 --> 00:29:48,761
Speaker 3: possibly can to make sure that their names are not forgotten,

556
00:29:48,961 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 3: that they are, you know, deserving of justice and truth

557
00:29:52,761 --> 00:29:56,401
Speaker 3: as to what has happened. And we're talking a lot

558
00:29:56,481 --> 00:29:58,881
Speaker 3: because there's a lot of detail, as I said to

559
00:29:58,921 --> 00:30:02,401
Speaker 3: everybody who's following along. So what we're going to do

560
00:30:02,481 --> 00:30:06,161
Speaker 3: is we're going to explain to everybody now what has

561
00:30:06,201 --> 00:30:08,521
Speaker 3: actually happened with your mum's case. So we know that

562
00:30:08,601 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 3: she was last seen on the thirteenth of December in

563
00:30:11,441 --> 00:30:15,401
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, after going to the dentist. The uber driver

564
00:30:16,161 --> 00:30:19,641
Speaker 3: dropped her off. She's wrung your dad. A couple of

565
00:30:19,681 --> 00:30:22,681
Speaker 3: hours later, saying she's wrung your dad at five point

566
00:30:22,681 --> 00:30:26,161
Speaker 3: twenty two pm the same day, saying that she felt

567
00:30:26,241 --> 00:30:28,801
Speaker 3: like there was something wrong and she was panicked. Is

568
00:30:28,841 --> 00:30:31,521
Speaker 3: what your dad had relayed back to the police and

569
00:30:31,601 --> 00:30:36,361
Speaker 3: to you guys, let's talk about what has happened to

570
00:30:36,441 --> 00:30:42,241
Speaker 3: your mum, Like can you fast forward to letting everyone

571
00:30:42,281 --> 00:30:44,601
Speaker 3: know what's happened and then we're going to break that down.

572
00:30:45,721 --> 00:30:47,001
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

573
00:30:47,041 --> 00:30:50,321
Speaker 4: So when you mentioned that mum was dropped off by

574
00:30:50,361 --> 00:30:54,761
Speaker 4: the uber driver, there is nothing in evidence that suggests

575
00:30:54,801 --> 00:30:56,801
Speaker 4: that's exactly what happened, that he dropped her off at

576
00:30:56,841 --> 00:30:59,641
Speaker 4: that point. So that's one point of conjecture.

577
00:31:00,241 --> 00:31:04,601
Speaker 3: Is that just his statement is that he dropped her off, correct, Okay,

578
00:31:05,161 --> 00:31:07,641
Speaker 3: so there's nothing to prove that that actually happened.

579
00:31:08,081 --> 00:31:11,441
Speaker 4: No, so the police have taken that as fact because

580
00:31:11,681 --> 00:31:13,401
Speaker 4: he said it in his statement. And I said, but

581
00:31:13,921 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 4: you haven't done any searching at all, Like yeah, so

582
00:31:17,721 --> 00:31:20,721
Speaker 4: that's where I believe the handover was to the gang

583
00:31:20,801 --> 00:31:24,441
Speaker 4: that we believe kidnapped a murdered mum. That was late

584
00:31:24,481 --> 00:31:28,121
Speaker 4: in the afternoon on the thirteenth of December twenty seventeen.

585
00:31:28,761 --> 00:31:31,481
Speaker 4: Like I said, there was three years of us searching Malaysia,

586
00:31:31,521 --> 00:31:35,081
Speaker 4: like every part of Malaysia, was putting up posters, putting

587
00:31:35,121 --> 00:31:38,561
Speaker 4: up banners, was doing radio talks, was doing TV, was

588
00:31:38,561 --> 00:31:41,161
Speaker 4: trying to get as much exposure to try and work

589
00:31:41,201 --> 00:31:44,281
Speaker 4: out what had happened to mum because it was pretty

590
00:31:44,361 --> 00:31:46,921
Speaker 4: much the unknown. And so I put up over three

591
00:31:46,961 --> 00:31:52,841
Speaker 4: thousand posters, banners, flyers, stickers. When I was putting up stickers,

592
00:31:52,841 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 4: the police and the council were pulling them down. So

593
00:31:55,521 --> 00:31:59,521
Speaker 4: then I made up my own concoction of a clear lacker.

594
00:31:59,961 --> 00:32:02,361
Speaker 4: So once I put the sticker up, I then paint

595
00:32:02,441 --> 00:32:05,481
Speaker 4: over the top of it and it was literally possible

596
00:32:05,481 --> 00:32:07,801
Speaker 4: you'd have to get an angle grinder to get it off.

597
00:32:07,841 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 5: And to this day still they're still up on the

598
00:32:10,921 --> 00:32:11,681
Speaker 5: on the light poles.

599
00:32:11,801 --> 00:32:14,801
Speaker 4: But the beauty of that is I saturated the area

600
00:32:14,801 --> 00:32:19,161
Speaker 4: where they said Mum was last identified. Again, couldn't get

601
00:32:19,201 --> 00:32:22,481
Speaker 4: the police to do triangulation of her phone. So Mum

602
00:32:22,561 --> 00:32:24,881
Speaker 4: had two phones, so she had a Malaysian phone when

603
00:32:24,881 --> 00:32:27,401
Speaker 4: she went over there, and she had an Australian one.

604
00:32:27,761 --> 00:32:30,441
Speaker 4: Her Australian one she couldn't get working, so she left

605
00:32:30,441 --> 00:32:33,561
Speaker 4: that in the hotel. But we back then you could

606
00:32:33,601 --> 00:32:36,961
Speaker 4: buy a SIM card, but it wasn't registered anywhere. That

607
00:32:37,081 --> 00:32:40,241
Speaker 4: didn't come out till a year later, so we've got

608
00:32:40,281 --> 00:32:42,721
Speaker 4: no idea what sim card she was using all the

609
00:32:42,761 --> 00:32:46,001
Speaker 4: phone number because it wasn't registered and so whenever she

610
00:32:46,001 --> 00:32:48,161
Speaker 4: would call us, she would call us or message us

611
00:32:48,241 --> 00:32:51,201
Speaker 4: on her Australian phone. So we're trying to get the

612
00:32:51,281 --> 00:32:54,161
Speaker 4: police to a triangulation of all the phones that were

613
00:32:54,201 --> 00:32:58,081
Speaker 4: in around where mum was staying, around where the dentist

614
00:32:58,161 --> 00:33:00,401
Speaker 4: was at the time of her appointment, and where they

615
00:33:00,481 --> 00:33:03,761
Speaker 4: said the last drop off was, and then you should

616
00:33:03,801 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 4: be able to then identify the phones that were in

617
00:33:07,481 --> 00:33:10,881
Speaker 4: that same spot, which would then identify Mum's phone, and

618
00:33:10,881 --> 00:33:13,801
Speaker 4: then were there any phones or have a looked at

619
00:33:13,801 --> 00:33:16,321
Speaker 4: the phones around that time and there's some of your

620
00:33:16,321 --> 00:33:17,081
Speaker 4: prime suspects.

621
00:33:17,121 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 5: So the police couldn't do that.

622
00:33:18,321 --> 00:33:21,041
Speaker 4: So yeah, so we did the searching and then on

623
00:33:21,161 --> 00:33:28,721
Speaker 4: the fourteenth of June twenty twenty, I received a text message.

624
00:33:28,881 --> 00:33:32,041
Speaker 4: I'd just gotten back from a tour in Iraq and

625
00:33:32,081 --> 00:33:34,881
Speaker 4: I received a text message at about seven fifteen that

626
00:33:35,001 --> 00:33:41,201
Speaker 4: evening of pictures of items that they thought belonged to mum.

627
00:33:41,881 --> 00:33:45,001
Speaker 3: And this was an anonymous person, right, So was it

628
00:33:45,041 --> 00:33:45,641
Speaker 3: on WhatsApp?

629
00:33:46,001 --> 00:33:50,321
Speaker 4: Yes, it was Are you Greek Jenkins? Are you Anna

630
00:33:50,401 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 4: Jenkins family? So I just responded back and said, yes,

631
00:33:53,321 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 4: I'm the Sun. Have you got any information? And they

632
00:33:55,961 --> 00:34:00,481
Speaker 4: started sending photos of some of Mum's possessions or possessions

633
00:34:00,481 --> 00:34:03,401
Speaker 4: that they found at the site. As soon as we

634
00:34:03,521 --> 00:34:06,201
Speaker 4: looked at it, I sent it to send it to Troy.

635
00:34:06,681 --> 00:34:08,601
Speaker 4: I said, I think we've found it because there was

636
00:34:08,601 --> 00:34:11,481
Speaker 4: things in there, like Mum used to have asthma puffer.

637
00:34:12,001 --> 00:34:15,881
Speaker 4: She was addicted to impulse the spray. There was like

638
00:34:15,921 --> 00:34:18,801
Speaker 4: little purses. There was also a crucifix, so Dad made

639
00:34:18,921 --> 00:34:21,561
Speaker 4: Mama a crucifix that she would carry over like a

640
00:34:21,601 --> 00:34:25,521
Speaker 4: wooden cross. And she also had a rosary beads and

641
00:34:25,561 --> 00:34:28,481
Speaker 4: she used to carry rosary beads everywhere. So everything was

642
00:34:28,561 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 4: lining up to holy shit, I think we just found

643
00:34:32,001 --> 00:34:33,121
Speaker 4: the needle in a haystack.

644
00:34:33,761 --> 00:34:34,641
Speaker 5: That's where it stalled.

645
00:34:35,441 --> 00:34:40,201
Speaker 4: So it was on a multimillion dollar construction site owned

646
00:34:40,201 --> 00:34:43,561
Speaker 4: by one of the richest men in Malaysia and one

647
00:34:43,601 --> 00:34:47,641
Speaker 4: of the largest developers in Southeast Asia called ba Jaya Group.

648
00:34:48,281 --> 00:34:51,481
Speaker 4: It was basically the start of a construction site. And

649
00:34:51,601 --> 00:34:56,081
Speaker 4: so the story that I got told was January twenty

650
00:34:56,161 --> 00:34:59,241
Speaker 4: twenty they started clearing out. So they bought the land

651
00:34:59,281 --> 00:35:00,841
Speaker 4: off of the Pananga Turk Club, so it was just

652
00:35:00,841 --> 00:35:03,561
Speaker 4: behind that. They bought the land and they were clearing it.

653
00:35:03,641 --> 00:35:06,361
Speaker 4: While they were clearing it, the guys that were clearing

654
00:35:06,401 --> 00:35:10,961
Speaker 4: it found human remains. They let the project manager know.

655
00:35:11,081 --> 00:35:14,961
Speaker 4: They let the developer know, who then contacted the police.

656
00:35:15,681 --> 00:35:18,881
Speaker 4: They come fast. They said they had two paper bags.

657
00:35:19,361 --> 00:35:22,561
Speaker 4: They put the human remains in there, took them away,

658
00:35:22,761 --> 00:35:25,601
Speaker 4: and then with the rest of the possessions. The project

659
00:35:25,601 --> 00:35:29,521
Speaker 4: manager ordered them to put in another area where they

660
00:35:29,561 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 4: weren't building. So the reason for that is twofold one.

661
00:35:33,161 --> 00:35:35,401
Speaker 4: It was during COVID and they didn't want to stop

662
00:35:35,401 --> 00:35:38,481
Speaker 4: building because if they had to report the human remains,

663
00:35:38,841 --> 00:35:43,921
Speaker 4: then the construction stops. Secondly, under Chinese tradition, it's tabooted

664
00:35:44,001 --> 00:35:47,641
Speaker 4: by property that's had humor remains or animal remains on it.

665
00:35:48,281 --> 00:35:51,601
Speaker 4: So in order to protect their profits, they've moved it

666
00:35:51,681 --> 00:35:54,241
Speaker 4: to an area where they knew there wasn't going to

667
00:35:54,281 --> 00:35:55,961
Speaker 4: be any properties built on it.

668
00:35:56,041 --> 00:35:57,361
Speaker 5: That way, they protect their.

669
00:35:57,201 --> 00:36:00,361
Speaker 4: Profits because it's got a profit margin of over one

670
00:36:00,441 --> 00:36:04,761
Speaker 4: billion US. Because they're making it for Malaysian government officials

671
00:36:05,241 --> 00:36:10,641
Speaker 4: and government authorities, These exclusive villas and so in order

672
00:36:10,681 --> 00:36:11,841
Speaker 4: to protect their profits.

673
00:36:12,321 --> 00:36:13,801
Speaker 5: Yeah, the project manager ordered.

674
00:36:13,641 --> 00:36:17,441
Speaker 4: The construction workers to basically bury it and ordered them

675
00:36:17,721 --> 00:36:20,041
Speaker 4: never ever ever to speak of this again.

676
00:36:21,041 --> 00:36:23,241
Speaker 3: So they are you telling me that they picked up

677
00:36:23,521 --> 00:36:27,001
Speaker 3: the bones and put them in a bag. Yes, and

678
00:36:27,081 --> 00:36:30,281
Speaker 3: moved them to a different site because they didn't want

679
00:36:30,321 --> 00:36:30,641
Speaker 3: to profit.

680
00:36:30,721 --> 00:36:31,641
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.

681
00:36:31,761 --> 00:36:36,481
Speaker 4: The police took the majority of mums remains and the

682
00:36:36,521 --> 00:36:41,201
Speaker 4: construction workers with mums possessions basically collected them.

683
00:36:41,041 --> 00:36:44,001
Speaker 5: All up and was ordered to bury them.

684
00:36:44,041 --> 00:36:45,841
Speaker 4: And I can show you the pictures of them burying

685
00:36:45,841 --> 00:36:48,361
Speaker 4: it as well, because someone took photos and sent it

686
00:36:48,401 --> 00:36:48,641
Speaker 4: to me.

687
00:36:49,281 --> 00:36:49,841
Speaker 1: Wow.

688
00:36:50,321 --> 00:36:53,241
Speaker 4: So this is fact because it came out during the

689
00:36:53,321 --> 00:36:57,441
Speaker 4: Corona linquest that the project manager said, Yeah, that's exactly

690
00:36:57,521 --> 00:37:00,841
Speaker 4: what we did. We found human remains, we moved into

691
00:37:00,841 --> 00:37:04,721
Speaker 4: an area, we buried them, he said. He told the

692
00:37:05,041 --> 00:37:08,281
Speaker 4: construction workers say your prayer and no one has to

693
00:37:08,281 --> 00:37:09,681
Speaker 4: ever talk about it ever again.

694
00:37:11,601 --> 00:37:11,881
Speaker 3: Wow.

695
00:37:11,961 --> 00:37:13,121
Speaker 1: So he said that in court.

696
00:37:13,361 --> 00:37:15,801
Speaker 4: Yes, I thought that was a slam dunk for us,

697
00:37:15,841 --> 00:37:19,721
Speaker 4: because they've contaminated a crime scene, they've tampered with evidence,

698
00:37:19,761 --> 00:37:22,681
Speaker 4: and they've hidden a crime from the police.

699
00:37:23,841 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: And so what happened Everyone from.

700
00:37:25,961 --> 00:37:29,801
Speaker 4: The construction company was let off of court to say

701
00:37:29,801 --> 00:37:32,681
Speaker 4: they've got nothing to answer for because and it was

702
00:37:32,721 --> 00:37:35,841
Speaker 4: only through pressure from me and through media that they

703
00:37:35,881 --> 00:37:38,561
Speaker 4: finally went to the police. So to get them to

704
00:37:38,561 --> 00:37:41,561
Speaker 4: go to the police, that took ten days, ten days

705
00:37:41,561 --> 00:37:45,561
Speaker 4: of me going from the fourteenth to Zoo. So fast

706
00:37:45,561 --> 00:37:49,201
Speaker 4: forward six months. When I first got the pictures from

707
00:37:49,201 --> 00:37:52,321
Speaker 4: the anonymous tip off, it took ten days to convince

708
00:37:52,361 --> 00:37:55,881
Speaker 4: the police that this is real. They still refused to

709
00:37:55,921 --> 00:37:58,641
Speaker 4: go out to the site to check it when I

710
00:37:58,761 --> 00:38:02,521
Speaker 4: first gave them the information. The investigation officer at the time,

711
00:38:03,041 --> 00:38:04,841
Speaker 4: he then sent me a message back to say he's

712
00:38:04,841 --> 00:38:08,561
Speaker 4: going on two weeks leave ordered by his supervisor.

713
00:38:09,121 --> 00:38:11,881
Speaker 5: And it's like, what the what the hell?

714
00:38:12,001 --> 00:38:14,801
Speaker 3: Like that's a pretty common common thing, isn't it. They're

715
00:38:14,841 --> 00:38:16,721
Speaker 3: always on holidays whenever you need them.

716
00:38:16,921 --> 00:38:19,241
Speaker 5: Yeah, we've just found the needle in a haystack.

717
00:38:20,041 --> 00:38:22,481
Speaker 4: Like I've often said, like Mum's case is like the

718
00:38:22,481 --> 00:38:24,561
Speaker 4: needle in a haystack, and you don't know where the

719
00:38:24,561 --> 00:38:27,521
Speaker 4: haystack is or if there's a needle in it. And

720
00:38:27,561 --> 00:38:30,521
Speaker 4: that's how we kind of sum up our search for Mum,

721
00:38:30,921 --> 00:38:33,081
Speaker 4: and we finally found the needle in a haystack being

722
00:38:33,121 --> 00:38:37,161
Speaker 4: mum's possessions. Then when we do pass it on, they

723
00:38:37,241 --> 00:38:39,801
Speaker 4: just ignored it to go, well, I'm going on holidays.

724
00:38:39,801 --> 00:38:42,081
Speaker 4: I'll deal with it in two weeks. That's kind of

725
00:38:42,161 --> 00:38:44,881
Speaker 4: where it started. But with the possessions as well. There

726
00:38:44,921 --> 00:38:47,121
Speaker 4: was a coxic bone, so I sent that to Troy,

727
00:38:47,121 --> 00:38:50,881
Speaker 4: who's also a paramedic, and I said, mate, this looks

728
00:38:50,921 --> 00:38:52,041
Speaker 4: like a human bone.

729
00:38:52,081 --> 00:38:53,041
Speaker 5: Can you tell?

730
00:38:53,161 --> 00:38:55,041
Speaker 4: And he looked at it and it's like, one hundred

731
00:38:55,041 --> 00:38:59,161
Speaker 4: percent that's a human coxic bone. That then kind of

732
00:38:59,681 --> 00:39:01,961
Speaker 4: led to me trying to get to Malaysia because the

733
00:39:02,001 --> 00:39:05,241
Speaker 4: police weren't doing anything. The Israel government or the High

734
00:39:05,241 --> 00:39:08,401
Speaker 4: Commission in KL they still couldn't do anything. They were

735
00:39:08,441 --> 00:39:12,961
Speaker 4: astonished that nothing was happening. But being astonished and actually

736
00:39:13,441 --> 00:39:16,081
Speaker 4: some top of two completely different things.

737
00:39:16,561 --> 00:39:19,961
Speaker 3: And so am I right in reading that there was

738
00:39:20,041 --> 00:39:24,521
Speaker 3: a dentist appointment card for your mum with your mum's

739
00:39:24,601 --> 00:39:28,201
Speaker 3: name on it amongst those possessions. Do you think was

740
00:39:28,201 --> 00:39:29,881
Speaker 3: that what led them to you?

741
00:39:29,961 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: Do you think?

742
00:39:31,601 --> 00:39:32,161
Speaker 5: Apparently?

743
00:39:32,241 --> 00:39:35,561
Speaker 4: So, again, we can't confirm it, but from the story

744
00:39:35,601 --> 00:39:38,721
Speaker 4: that I got told from the guy that reported mums remains,

745
00:39:39,081 --> 00:39:41,761
Speaker 4: so he found mum's dental appointment card with a name

746
00:39:41,801 --> 00:39:45,881
Speaker 4: on it. So his wife speaks English, so he took

747
00:39:45,921 --> 00:39:50,161
Speaker 4: that card back home, typed it in and it come

748
00:39:50,241 --> 00:39:54,681
Speaker 4: up with all of mum's missing persons stuff. Oh, at

749
00:39:54,681 --> 00:39:59,121
Speaker 4: that time, we were offering the twenty thousand ring reward,

750
00:39:59,201 --> 00:40:01,961
Speaker 4: which ends up being about six thousand dollars, so we

751
00:40:02,001 --> 00:40:04,521
Speaker 4: managed to save up money and then put that aside

752
00:40:04,521 --> 00:40:07,161
Speaker 4: to go. Right, if someone uses information, this is the

753
00:40:07,201 --> 00:40:09,521
Speaker 4: money that will utilize to assist with that.

754
00:40:10,441 --> 00:40:12,641
Speaker 5: So he's seen that as a bit of a cash cow.

755
00:40:12,961 --> 00:40:15,521
Speaker 3: To go all right, Well, he is the information I

756
00:40:15,561 --> 00:40:19,881
Speaker 3: want make, okay, and you actually know who he is now, Yeah,

757
00:40:20,481 --> 00:40:22,601
Speaker 3: it's just wild to think. And you know what without

758
00:40:22,601 --> 00:40:25,121
Speaker 3: you putting all those posters up and lacquering them with

759
00:40:25,481 --> 00:40:28,761
Speaker 3: glue essentially so that people can't pull them off, and

760
00:40:29,041 --> 00:40:32,241
Speaker 3: pushing and pushing and pushing, and you know, I made

761
00:40:32,241 --> 00:40:35,801
Speaker 3: notes here to talk about your mate Troy, who runs

762
00:40:35,841 --> 00:40:40,001
Speaker 3: his Panatopic Solutions out of the Gold Coast, and you know,

763
00:40:40,561 --> 00:40:43,121
Speaker 3: reading about him saying let's set up for an operations

764
00:40:43,121 --> 00:40:45,761
Speaker 3: center here on the Gold Coast for you to work

765
00:40:45,841 --> 00:40:49,721
Speaker 3: through and support you. And what an amazing friend to

766
00:40:49,801 --> 00:40:52,561
Speaker 3: have and just having that as a backup to.

767
00:40:53,681 --> 00:40:54,681
Speaker 5: He's been phenomenal.

768
00:40:54,721 --> 00:40:57,401
Speaker 4: Like there was a time where, like especially early on,

769
00:40:57,881 --> 00:41:00,761
Speaker 4: and we sat down with him, my sister and his

770
00:41:00,841 --> 00:41:04,121
Speaker 4: operations manager and we just talked through it. And I

771
00:41:04,161 --> 00:41:05,921
Speaker 4: was in a little bit of a date because it's

772
00:41:05,961 --> 00:41:08,841
Speaker 4: like I was panicking and it's like, well, this trip,

773
00:41:08,881 --> 00:41:10,401
Speaker 4: I have to find mum, I have to do this,

774
00:41:10,521 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 4: have to do that, and just stressed out. So then

775
00:41:13,801 --> 00:41:15,401
Speaker 4: it was a couple of days later that I had

776
00:41:15,401 --> 00:41:18,361
Speaker 4: my flights booked and rocked up to Brizzy Airport and

777
00:41:19,361 --> 00:41:22,081
Speaker 4: he was standing there with a suitcase and he goes,

778
00:41:22,081 --> 00:41:24,841
Speaker 4: you're not doing this alone. So he traveled to Malaysia

779
00:41:24,961 --> 00:41:27,281
Speaker 4: with me. And that's that's the kind of bloke that

780
00:41:27,321 --> 00:41:30,121
Speaker 4: he is. That Yeah, he dropped everything, even though being

781
00:41:30,121 --> 00:41:32,721
Speaker 4: a CEO of his work and that was busy. Plus

782
00:41:32,721 --> 00:41:36,161
Speaker 4: he's got three kids and a wife who's got her

783
00:41:36,201 --> 00:41:39,361
Speaker 4: own job, just dropped everything to come over. And even

784
00:41:39,601 --> 00:41:42,281
Speaker 4: still to this day, I got a message from him

785
00:41:42,441 --> 00:41:45,801
Speaker 4: yesterday just giving like little points or like just doing

786
00:41:45,881 --> 00:41:49,161
Speaker 4: check ins. And there's been so many people along the

787
00:41:49,201 --> 00:41:52,761
Speaker 4: line that have jumped in and held us, especially since

788
00:41:52,761 --> 00:41:54,961
Speaker 4: we found a mum's remains.

789
00:41:55,801 --> 00:41:59,881
Speaker 5: That was a huge thing. So it was during COVID.

790
00:42:00,321 --> 00:42:02,361
Speaker 4: So once I got given the tip off, I put

791
00:42:02,361 --> 00:42:05,921
Speaker 4: in an application to get overseas because COVID kind of

792
00:42:05,921 --> 00:42:09,241
Speaker 4: cut off all the travel from the Australian side.

793
00:42:09,761 --> 00:42:11,161
Speaker 5: That was real easy.

794
00:42:11,561 --> 00:42:14,281
Speaker 4: Managed to get all the letters and did everything, and

795
00:42:14,321 --> 00:42:19,201
Speaker 4: they approved travel over Malaysian side just ignored me, continually

796
00:42:19,201 --> 00:42:22,281
Speaker 4: ignored me, and again like I was hassling the DEFAT

797
00:42:22,401 --> 00:42:24,281
Speaker 4: and the High Commission, you go, can we hurry up?

798
00:42:24,441 --> 00:42:25,281
Speaker 5: Can we hurry up?

799
00:42:25,681 --> 00:42:28,321
Speaker 4: We couldn't get a stop work order either, so construction

800
00:42:28,441 --> 00:42:31,001
Speaker 4: was still continuing while this was going on, and to

801
00:42:31,041 --> 00:42:33,601
Speaker 4: this day it's still continuing. I still haven't been able

802
00:42:33,921 --> 00:42:36,601
Speaker 4: to shut it down. So I finally got over there

803
00:42:36,721 --> 00:42:39,081
Speaker 4: and I had to do sixteen days in quarantine.

804
00:42:39,641 --> 00:42:41,601
Speaker 5: Finally got out. I b lined it.

805
00:42:41,761 --> 00:42:44,201
Speaker 4: Had a meeting with the Chief of Police for the

806
00:42:44,401 --> 00:42:47,361
Speaker 4: or the officer in charge of the Penang district. During

807
00:42:47,401 --> 00:42:50,721
Speaker 4: that meeting, bear in mind, this is after we'd just

808
00:42:50,841 --> 00:42:54,001
Speaker 4: given them, you know, all of the details about you know,

809
00:42:54,081 --> 00:42:59,201
Speaker 4: mum's possessions. There was a coxic bone he basically accused

810
00:42:59,281 --> 00:43:01,961
Speaker 4: us of because I said, does this mean like you'll

811
00:43:02,001 --> 00:43:04,441
Speaker 4: do a stop work order and then do a complete

812
00:43:04,441 --> 00:43:06,481
Speaker 4: search of the air. And he goes, no, that's the

813
00:43:06,561 --> 00:43:09,441
Speaker 4: developer could lose too much money. And I was like,

814
00:43:10,361 --> 00:43:15,681
Speaker 4: how can you put the developer's profits over an individual

815
00:43:16,281 --> 00:43:21,081
Speaker 4: who's lost their life, potentially murdered in that area, and

816
00:43:21,121 --> 00:43:24,401
Speaker 4: you're just going to ignore it because the developer will

817
00:43:24,401 --> 00:43:26,841
Speaker 4: lose too much money. So we had a little bit

818
00:43:26,881 --> 00:43:29,721
Speaker 4: of an argument to go, well, what happens now, and

819
00:43:29,761 --> 00:43:31,601
Speaker 4: he said, you know, we've done our searches, We've done

820
00:43:31,681 --> 00:43:34,761
Speaker 4: everything possible. The case is closed and has been given

821
00:43:34,801 --> 00:43:38,041
Speaker 4: to the Director of Public Prosecutions and it's up to

822
00:43:38,121 --> 00:43:40,041
Speaker 4: him to decide there. And I said, well, I want

823
00:43:40,041 --> 00:43:41,321
Speaker 4: to go out and have a look because at that

824
00:43:41,401 --> 00:43:43,721
Speaker 4: point I had to then do a DNA test.

825
00:43:44,121 --> 00:43:45,521
Speaker 5: Like I said, it was real aggressive.

826
00:43:45,561 --> 00:43:46,561
Speaker 4: And I said, I want to go out and have

827
00:43:46,601 --> 00:43:49,481
Speaker 4: a look at the site where you found mum's possessions.

828
00:43:50,961 --> 00:43:53,201
Speaker 5: There were three strict rules that he gave me.

829
00:43:53,641 --> 00:43:56,001
Speaker 4: He said, I'm not allowed to put it on social media,

830
00:43:56,641 --> 00:43:58,841
Speaker 4: I'm not allowed to tell the local media that I'm

831
00:43:58,881 --> 00:44:01,201
Speaker 4: heading out there, and I'm not allowed to take photos

832
00:44:01,241 --> 00:44:04,801
Speaker 4: with the construction site in the background. Again he reiterated,

833
00:44:05,041 --> 00:44:08,121
Speaker 4: but this is an important project for the Bijaya Group

834
00:44:08,521 --> 00:44:12,881
Speaker 4: who are trying to get their foothold within Panang. So

835
00:44:13,001 --> 00:44:17,201
Speaker 4: this is a key development for Panang and for the company.

836
00:44:17,721 --> 00:44:20,121
Speaker 4: And so if I was to take photos with the

837
00:44:20,121 --> 00:44:24,521
Speaker 4: construction site in the background, that would potentially make the

838
00:44:24,681 --> 00:44:27,641
Speaker 4: Jaya Group lose a lot of money. And again that

839
00:44:27,841 --> 00:44:31,961
Speaker 4: just screened in my ear to go, what's going on here?

840
00:44:32,121 --> 00:44:34,121
Speaker 4: Like a you two best friends?

841
00:44:34,161 --> 00:44:34,361
Speaker 2: Are you?

842
00:44:34,561 --> 00:44:35,401
Speaker 5: Like? What's a connection?

843
00:44:35,481 --> 00:44:38,161
Speaker 4: And why are you so protective of the profits of

844
00:44:38,361 --> 00:44:41,081
Speaker 4: Bajay Group. So anyway, we went out there. That was

845
00:44:41,081 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 4: twenty ninth of July. Was the first time I could

846
00:44:43,481 --> 00:44:46,361
Speaker 4: actually visit the site where they found a mum's possessions

847
00:44:46,361 --> 00:44:48,961
Speaker 4: and the coxic bone. We got out to the site

848
00:44:49,321 --> 00:44:51,081
Speaker 4: and I said, where about did you find it? And

849
00:44:51,121 --> 00:44:53,881
Speaker 4: they said it was over in this area and I said, cool,

850
00:44:54,281 --> 00:44:57,681
Speaker 4: I kid you not. It was less than two minutes

851
00:44:57,721 --> 00:44:59,801
Speaker 4: of me being there. So we partner the car got out,

852
00:45:00,081 --> 00:45:03,601
Speaker 4: he pointed, I walked and we had the defat staff there.

853
00:45:04,121 --> 00:45:08,601
Speaker 5: I found mum's shoot and it's like, well, what's going on?

854
00:45:09,241 --> 00:45:12,681
Speaker 4: So it clearly said that they have no interest in

855
00:45:12,721 --> 00:45:15,881
Speaker 4: doing the search. So I've got a water bottle put

856
00:45:15,881 --> 00:45:17,481
Speaker 4: it next to it, just so you can get the

857
00:45:17,601 --> 00:45:20,841
Speaker 4: size and the location and stuff like that. So then

858
00:45:21,161 --> 00:45:23,801
Speaker 4: I told the investigation officer. I told DFAT and I

859
00:45:23,881 --> 00:45:26,641
Speaker 4: thought this would be this is the straw. It's going

860
00:45:26,681 --> 00:45:28,201
Speaker 4: to break the camel back and they're going to go

861
00:45:28,201 --> 00:45:29,201
Speaker 4: all right, Yeah, you're.

862
00:45:29,121 --> 00:45:32,281
Speaker 3: Right, they're coming in. They're bringing everyone. They've got their

863
00:45:32,281 --> 00:45:34,761
Speaker 3: notebooks to take notes and get all the information.

864
00:45:34,881 --> 00:45:36,841
Speaker 1: They require nothing.

865
00:45:37,401 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 4: So I also found other things from mum's purse, so

866
00:45:41,641 --> 00:45:43,921
Speaker 4: I kind of walked away from that and then sitting

867
00:45:43,961 --> 00:45:46,401
Speaker 4: there and it's like, oh, there's more stuff out of

868
00:45:46,441 --> 00:45:48,921
Speaker 4: mum's person. I know it's mum's first, like packets of

869
00:45:48,961 --> 00:45:52,201
Speaker 4: extra she was addicted and she's passed it on to me,

870
00:45:52,361 --> 00:45:54,801
Speaker 4: like I love Vicks, vapor drops and soothings.

871
00:45:54,841 --> 00:45:55,881
Speaker 5: We hit them like lollies.

872
00:45:56,361 --> 00:45:59,921
Speaker 4: Haven't had a cough in twenty years, but Mum absolutely

873
00:45:59,961 --> 00:46:02,841
Speaker 4: loved them and found them scattered everywhere, and other things

874
00:46:02,841 --> 00:46:06,401
Speaker 4: that are predominantly Australian that come out of mum's purse

875
00:46:06,921 --> 00:46:08,561
Speaker 4: clear that nothing had been searched.

876
00:46:08,601 --> 00:46:11,241
Speaker 5: So I told them they need to get the Panang

877
00:46:11,241 --> 00:46:12,241
Speaker 5: forensic team out there.

878
00:46:12,281 --> 00:46:14,321
Speaker 4: So we sat off to one side and then the

879
00:46:14,361 --> 00:46:17,441
Speaker 4: Panang forensic team came out. When they came out, I

880
00:46:17,481 --> 00:46:20,081
Speaker 4: had to remind them to put on glove. This is

881
00:46:20,081 --> 00:46:24,401
Speaker 4: how I knew that this is going to be another

882
00:46:25,001 --> 00:46:27,841
Speaker 4: uphill battle rather than opening the flood gaze to go,

883
00:46:28,121 --> 00:46:30,041
Speaker 4: we're about to get all the answers that we want.

884
00:46:30,401 --> 00:46:32,641
Speaker 4: I had to remind the Panang forensic team to put

885
00:46:32,641 --> 00:46:37,761
Speaker 4: on gloves when they're handling mum's shoe for instance, and

886
00:46:37,801 --> 00:46:38,761
Speaker 4: doing this search around.

887
00:46:38,921 --> 00:46:41,201
Speaker 3: I was thinking that when you were talking about them

888
00:46:41,281 --> 00:46:43,721
Speaker 3: putting the bones in the bags, I'm like, were they

889
00:46:43,721 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 3: wearing gloves when they were touching these?

890
00:46:45,561 --> 00:46:46,121
Speaker 1: Like were they.

891
00:46:46,041 --> 00:46:49,561
Speaker 3: Contaminating the evidence as well? That's just wild, isn't it.

892
00:46:49,561 --> 00:46:52,321
Speaker 3: It's just crazy to think that you have to remind

893
00:46:52,561 --> 00:46:57,281
Speaker 3: the forensic team. Yeah, gosh, okay, I'm a bit speechless.

894
00:46:57,641 --> 00:46:59,081
Speaker 3: So I am here listening.

895
00:46:59,121 --> 00:46:59,761
Speaker 5: I am listening.

896
00:47:00,361 --> 00:47:02,601
Speaker 4: So then from that point on, when I found mum's

897
00:47:02,721 --> 00:47:05,801
Speaker 4: shoe and other thing from a purse, I thought, like,

898
00:47:05,841 --> 00:47:08,921
Speaker 4: I said, this is going to really get the ball rolling.

899
00:47:09,561 --> 00:47:13,081
Speaker 4: And like I said, they refused to reopen it. And

900
00:47:13,161 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 4: I said, yeah, we've just logged that, but the case

901
00:47:15,041 --> 00:47:18,241
Speaker 4: is closed. I said, how can be closed when clearly

902
00:47:18,401 --> 00:47:21,601
Speaker 4: your search hasn't been good enough where a guy comes

903
00:47:21,601 --> 00:47:25,601
Speaker 4: in never seen the place before, and I found mum shoe.

904
00:47:26,121 --> 00:47:30,001
Speaker 4: So anyway, nothing happened, and I thought, well, I'm going

905
00:47:30,041 --> 00:47:32,401
Speaker 4: to have to do this myself. So what I ended

906
00:47:32,481 --> 00:47:35,001
Speaker 4: up doing was I'd go back at night and there

907
00:47:35,041 --> 00:47:37,201
Speaker 4: was a security guard that was on site there, so

908
00:47:37,321 --> 00:47:38,201
Speaker 4: they had a boom gate.

909
00:47:38,721 --> 00:47:39,761
Speaker 5: I told him about.

910
00:47:39,601 --> 00:47:42,601
Speaker 4: Mum's story and he was a massive family man and

911
00:47:42,641 --> 00:47:44,521
Speaker 4: he said, you just do what you need to do.

912
00:47:45,081 --> 00:47:48,241
Speaker 4: And so one day I got there and so I

913
00:47:48,281 --> 00:47:51,281
Speaker 4: gave him fifty ring it, which is like twenty Australian bucks.

914
00:47:51,681 --> 00:47:53,761
Speaker 5: I said, thanks for all your help. I said, are

915
00:47:53,801 --> 00:47:54,601
Speaker 5: you able to come down?

916
00:47:54,681 --> 00:47:57,761
Speaker 4: And I just wanted to take some videos for a

917
00:47:57,801 --> 00:48:01,561
Speaker 4: news article that we're doing for Channel seven, And so

918
00:48:02,081 --> 00:48:04,921
Speaker 4: he come down and took some video for me, then

919
00:48:05,121 --> 00:48:07,521
Speaker 4: he left. I was pretty tired because it was late

920
00:48:07,521 --> 00:48:09,801
Speaker 4: in the day and I've just been searching all day

921
00:48:09,961 --> 00:48:14,481
Speaker 4: plus plus trying to get media involved, etc. And finished

922
00:48:14,521 --> 00:48:16,521
Speaker 4: it on my search and then just sat down and

923
00:48:16,561 --> 00:48:20,681
Speaker 4: then I'm not into weird signs or anything like that.

924
00:48:20,961 --> 00:48:22,321
Speaker 5: Mum and Dad.

925
00:48:22,041 --> 00:48:26,641
Speaker 4: Were very Christian orientated, where his mum's case has kind

926
00:48:26,681 --> 00:48:29,361
Speaker 4: of gone well, if there is a god, why would

927
00:48:29,361 --> 00:48:32,321
Speaker 4: they let something like this happen to someone that dedicated

928
00:48:32,321 --> 00:48:36,401
Speaker 4: their lives to helping the homeless, the refugees. Even when

929
00:48:36,441 --> 00:48:38,641
Speaker 4: she was in Malaysia, she would be buying things for

930
00:48:38,721 --> 00:48:40,841
Speaker 4: the homeless or for nursing homes.

931
00:48:41,241 --> 00:48:42,361
Speaker 5: Why would they let that happen.

932
00:48:42,401 --> 00:48:45,241
Speaker 4: So anyway, I sat there and just took a breath,

933
00:48:45,801 --> 00:48:48,841
Speaker 4: how a drink of water, and then the whole place

934
00:48:48,961 --> 00:48:52,961
Speaker 4: felt like it filled with these black butterflies.

935
00:48:52,321 --> 00:48:53,561
Speaker 5: With little blue spots on it.

936
00:48:54,481 --> 00:48:59,201
Speaker 4: My instant reaction was I hate this place even more

937
00:48:59,241 --> 00:49:02,001
Speaker 4: now because now it's full of pess. I didn't really

938
00:49:02,041 --> 00:49:05,601
Speaker 4: think about it till later. It's like that's annoying. Anyway,

939
00:49:06,921 --> 00:49:10,201
Speaker 4: Literally only a couple of seconds later and it feels

940
00:49:10,201 --> 00:49:12,241
Speaker 4: like I'm making this story up. But I looked down

941
00:49:12,561 --> 00:49:15,641
Speaker 4: and then I've seen something that it kind of looked

942
00:49:15,681 --> 00:49:18,641
Speaker 4: like a rock, but it wasn't a rock, And it's like,

943
00:49:18,761 --> 00:49:19,721
Speaker 4: that looks a bit weird.

944
00:49:19,721 --> 00:49:20,521
Speaker 5: So I went down and.

945
00:49:20,481 --> 00:49:23,921
Speaker 4: Had a look and it's like holy shit, and Senator

946
00:49:24,041 --> 00:49:26,921
Speaker 4: took a picture, Senator Troy, and I said, mate, is

947
00:49:26,961 --> 00:49:30,401
Speaker 4: this a bone? And he goes, yeah, that's a vertebrate.

948
00:49:31,001 --> 00:49:36,681
Speaker 4: So ended up finding mum's vertebrate. And this is so

949
00:49:36,761 --> 00:49:42,241
Speaker 4: that occurred on the on the eighth of August is

950
00:49:42,281 --> 00:49:45,361
Speaker 4: when I found that. And it's like holy shit, like

951
00:49:45,441 --> 00:49:49,281
Speaker 4: they keep slamming doors, and I felt as my mum

952
00:49:49,561 --> 00:49:51,841
Speaker 4: kept trying to jam a foot in it to go.

953
00:49:51,961 --> 00:49:53,521
Speaker 5: No, not just yet.

954
00:49:55,601 --> 00:50:00,961
Speaker 2: Next time on the Missing Matter, an anonymous message arrives

955
00:50:01,081 --> 00:50:04,601
Speaker 2: out of nowhere. It leads Greg to a place authorities

956
00:50:04,681 --> 00:50:09,641
Speaker 2: never searched, and what's uncovered there raises questions that still

957
00:50:09,841 --> 00:50:15,681
Speaker 2: haven't been answered, because in this case, finding Anna was

958
00:50:15,881 --> 00:50:20,161
Speaker 2: only the beginning. That's next time on the Missing Matter,