Speaker 1: Three years ago this month, Susan Lee stood beside Peter
Speaker 1: Dutton as his deputy, the newly installed pair, appearing confident
Speaker 1: of the contest ahead.
Speaker 2: I'm really proud of the fact that Susan Lee as
Speaker 2: my deputy will not only be the Deputy leader, but
Speaker 2: the Shadow Minister for Industry, for Skills and Training and
Speaker 2: Shadow Minister for Women.
Speaker 1: Lee backed Dutton enthusiastically.
Speaker 3: Can I thank you Peter for your leadership to date
Speaker 3: and say that you are absolutely the best person for
Speaker 3: this job.
Speaker 1: But now it's twenty twenty five and she faces the
Speaker 1: public as the coalition's new leader after voters rejected the
Speaker 1: Dutton Lee project and inflicted the party's worst defeat on record.
Speaker 1: The task ahead for Lee is threefold. Hold the coalition together,
Speaker 1: reset the policy platform, and win back the city women
Speaker 1: and younger voters who have abandoned them. From Schwartz Media,
Speaker 1: I'm Michael Williams, filling in for Daniel and Ruby. This
Speaker 1: is seven am today, Chief political correspondent for the Saturday Paper,
Speaker 1: Karen Barlow on Susan Lee's uphill battle to rebuild the coalition.
Speaker 1: It's Thursday, May fifteenth. Karen, thanks for speaking with me. Now,
Speaker 1: Susan Lee might arguably have the toughest job in politics.
Speaker 1: That's bringing the Liberal Party back to life after what
Speaker 1: can generously be called a route. So what she said
Speaker 1: since she won the leadership about how she's going to
Speaker 1: approach that mammoth.
Speaker 4: Task, well, in short, Susan Lee says she is up
Speaker 4: for the job. So big statement, big job absolutely with
Speaker 4: her stepping into it. There's a number of firsts. She's
Speaker 4: a first female opposition leader, first female leader of the
Speaker 4: Liberal Party, and first regional MP as leader since Malcolm Fraser.
Speaker 3: It is an enormous privilege to have been elected the
Speaker 3: leader of the parliamentary Liberal Party.
Speaker 5: I am humbled, I am honored, and I am up.
Speaker 1: For the job.
Speaker 4: She says. This thumping election lost to Labor was a
Speaker 4: significant defeat and it's not lost on anyone in the
Speaker 4: Liberal Party. She says that the Liberals respect the result.
Speaker 4: I guess they have to, and they're going to reflect
Speaker 4: with humility.
Speaker 3: We have to have a Liberal Party that respects modern Australia,
Speaker 3: that reflects modern Australia, and that represents modern Australia.
Speaker 4: Susan Lee says, it's time to listen. It's time to
Speaker 4: develop robust policy processes.
Speaker 5: And we have to have a fresh approach.
Speaker 3: I want to harness the talents of every single person
Speaker 3: in our party room going forward.
Speaker 4: Flex this criticism within the party that the leadership under
Speaker 4: Peter Dutton did not talk to the back bench, didn't
Speaker 4: really talk to anyone outside the leadership office. So that's
Speaker 4: something that they're going to go forward on. Susan Lee
Speaker 4: also saying that there'll be no more captain picks, so
Speaker 4: that's also reflecting on this call for unity and to
Speaker 4: be collegiate. So it's time for a different approach, she says,
Speaker 4: and time to be more consultative.
Speaker 1: Preaching the need to do things differently seems pretty wise
Speaker 1: at this point. She spoke quite a bit in the
Speaker 1: press conference about her upbringing and her career, So tell
Speaker 1: us a bit about that and about how that shaped
Speaker 1: how she's going to approach doing things differently.
Speaker 4: Yeah, look, it was really interesting the way she presented herself.
Speaker 4: We immediately got a reintroduction to Susan Lee. Certainly for
Speaker 4: many Actually it's an introduction. This is about not just
Speaker 4: her as a politician, but her as a person. She
Speaker 4: told us sis story about her as a migrant someone
Speaker 4: who came to Australia as a teenager.
Speaker 3: I stepped out of the airplane at Brisbane Airport and
Speaker 3: I looked at this brilliant blue sky. I knew that
Speaker 3: I'd come to the best country on Earth, and I
Speaker 3: knew that Australia was a place where I could dream
Speaker 3: my biggest dreams.
Speaker 4: And she was actually born in Nigeria. Her dad was
Speaker 4: a British intelligence officer and she also spent time in
Speaker 4: the United Arab Emirates, so she's done a lot. She
Speaker 4: became an aerial stock muster pilot. She still flies to
Speaker 4: this day. She flies all around her electorate, which is
Speaker 4: very large. Pharah is a very large regional electorate. She
Speaker 4: was also a shearer's cook. Sometime in the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 4: She had a brief punk rock phase, which is very interesting.
Speaker 4: Not many photos of that exist publicly, but I'm sure
Speaker 4: they're out there somewhere. She has master's degrees in taxation
Speaker 4: and accountancy before getting elected in two thousand and one,
Speaker 4: and that's now a twenty four year political career in
Speaker 4: Federal Parliament, the same as Peter Dutton. So she's had
Speaker 4: an interesting ascension into politics. She's had various roles in
Speaker 4: opposition and in government under various Liberal leaders, notably Minister
Speaker 4: of Health, Minister of Age Care, and Minister of the Environment.
Speaker 4: Straight after that she ascends to be Deputy Opposition Leader,
Speaker 4: and right here and now as the new federal leader
Speaker 4: of the Liberal Party.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I always remember about Susan Lee,
Speaker 1: fairly or unfairly, is around the irregular spelling of her
Speaker 1: first name, And I was wondering if you could talk
Speaker 1: us through that, because that's something that has stuck in
Speaker 1: the mind.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think this aspect of Susan Lee is getting
Speaker 4: a lot of attention at the moment. I think it's
Speaker 4: one of the big Google hits. Certainly there's a lot
Speaker 4: of memes going around at the moment. In short, Susan
Speaker 4: with two essays came from a dabble in numerology. Lee
Speaker 4: gave an interview in twenty fifteen where she said that
Speaker 4: she was advised that if you add the numbers which
Speaker 4: matched the letters in your name, it could lead to
Speaker 4: her having an incredibly exciting and interesting life and that
Speaker 4: nothing would ever be boring. So I guess if you
Speaker 4: can reflect on the fact that she's now ascended to
Speaker 4: the leader of the Liberal Party. She definitely is not
Speaker 4: having a boring life. But this is something that conservative
Speaker 4: bos were putting around in this dirt sheet on Susan
Speaker 4: Lee when she was vying for the job she now has,
Speaker 4: and they were pointing to the Essa's mocking it, and
Speaker 4: I guess it just points to the detractors that she
Speaker 4: still has within the party.
Speaker 1: She was, of course Peter Dutton's deputy, so some of
Speaker 1: it must stem from that. How different is she ideologically
Speaker 1: to Dutton and what does she need to do now
Speaker 1: to distance herself from him?
Speaker 4: I mean, immediately, the first job after such a devastating
Speaker 4: loss is to unify, unify what's left of the Liberal
Speaker 4: Party and the coalition, remembering that the federal Liberal leader
Speaker 4: is the leader of the coalition and it's something that
Speaker 4: has to be united as a first responsibility, and that
Speaker 4: will be a mammoth job. Lee is a moderate, unlike
Speaker 4: Peter Dutton, who is of the hard right. Moderates are
Speaker 4: on the decline. They have been for a while, especially
Speaker 4: after the twenty twenty two Teal wave, and the party
Speaker 4: room leans right. So there is strong internal and external
Speaker 4: urgings for the Liberal Party to lean further into the
Speaker 4: right and probably will shift more so after some Senate
Speaker 4: changes in June. But the big job after ascending is
Speaker 4: to sort out the shadow cabinet who's going to be
Speaker 4: a front bench. Lee's job is to listen, to stop
Speaker 4: and to pause and you know, really bring the party
Speaker 4: together as it faces this existential crisis.
Speaker 1: After the break, is Susan Lee breaking the glass ceiling
Speaker 1: or being pushed off the glass cliff? Karen, The first
Speaker 1: question in Susan Lee's presser as leader was about the
Speaker 1: nuclear policy. What sense do you have about whether the
Speaker 1: Liberal Party is willing to walk away from what Peter
Speaker 1: Dutton was so enthusiastically prosecuting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's having interest in this and at this point
Speaker 4: we don't know.
Speaker 5: We'll just hearing this party Ramoni.
Speaker 3: A couple of hours ago, I committed to my colleagues
Speaker 3: that there would be no captain's calls from anywhere by me,
Speaker 3: and I also.
Speaker 4: The Nationals still appear keen and they didn't lose any
Speaker 4: seats in the twenty twenty five election. Lee has not
Speaker 4: committed either way. She did say that energy policy is
Speaker 4: part of the review that will be done after the
Speaker 4: election loss.
Speaker 3: There is going to be sound, sensible consultation and I
Speaker 3: undertake one hundred percent to do that.
Speaker 4: She did say, however, that there is not going to
Speaker 4: be any climate wars going forward. The big task for
Speaker 4: the Labor Party at the moment in the field of
Speaker 4: climate is to present a twenty thirty five net zero target,
Speaker 4: So we're waiting on that on the Labor side.
Speaker 1: Karen, I'd love to touch on the gender question for
Speaker 1: a moment. You know, there is a real temptation to
Speaker 1: see Lee's appointment as the first woman to lead the
Speaker 1: Liberal Party as being an example of that phenomenon of
Speaker 1: the glass cliff. Only when things are pretty dire does
Speaker 1: a woman finally get elevated to the top job. But
Speaker 1: as you've outlined, she's hugely experienced and appealing to women
Speaker 1: is a key priority to the Liberal Party at this
Speaker 1: point in time. What do we know about how she
Speaker 1: might try to appeal to female voters.
Speaker 4: Well, look, this will be a huge part of the
Speaker 4: review going forward. There were lots of messages in the
Speaker 4: twenty twenty two election review done by frontbencher Jane Hume
Speaker 4: and former Director of the Federal Party Brian Lockney. They
Speaker 4: had lots of ideas about getting back women and they
Speaker 4: were pretty much ignored. Lee was the shadow spokesperson for women.
Speaker 4: She is aware of the problems.
Speaker 3: And I said in my statement for candidacy for this
Speaker 3: position that we did let women down.
Speaker 5: There is no doubt about that. And it is true
Speaker 5: that the.
Speaker 3: Numbers of women who are supporting us is declining, and
Speaker 3: I want to rule a line under that. I don't
Speaker 3: want to see that decline for one more day.
Speaker 4: This new agenda to bring back women inside and outside
Speaker 4: the party is something that she says that she will
Speaker 4: personally drive. There is inside the party strong support from
Speaker 4: the women that are left inside the party for Susan Lee.
Speaker 4: I understand a lot of them voted for her in
Speaker 4: the leadership ballot. And you know, when we talk about
Speaker 4: this being an existential crisis for the Liberal Party, this
Speaker 4: issue of women will be absolutely front and center.
Speaker 1: In many ways. Susan Lee will been an interesting opponent
Speaker 1: for Anthony ALBERNIZI. He's been used to sparring at times
Speaker 1: in fairly aggressive terms with Peter Dutton. So how would
Speaker 1: you describe her parliamentary approach? What kind of performer is
Speaker 1: she in the room.
Speaker 4: It's going to be really interesting seeing Lee in Parliament
Speaker 4: and whether she's going to change. Lee, so far as
Speaker 4: we've seen her in Parliament is not afraid to get
Speaker 4: in there for a scrap. She does things to unsettle
Speaker 4: people in Parliament, particularly Tanya Plitisk.
Speaker 3: A point of order in relevance, Mister Speaker, and I
Speaker 3: respectfully submit that the Minister was going nowhere near the question,
Speaker 3: which was quite straightforward and quite simple. Does she still
Speaker 3: support the introduction of a federal EPA.
Speaker 4: They've been sparring all over the past term. The deputy
Speaker 4: leader of the Opposition Order, there's.
Speaker 5: A difference between Strong and Agro.
Speaker 4: The Agros constantly order. I would say that there will
Speaker 4: be some sort of change and we have to see
Speaker 4: who she assembles on her front bench and how she
Speaker 4: operates with them. She's already indicated that Angus Taylor will
Speaker 4: have an integral role and Justinta nampajinpur Price really did
Speaker 4: want to get the deputy position so much so she
Speaker 4: had to move from the National Party Room to the
Speaker 4: Liberal Party room and upset people on both sides to
Speaker 4: do so. Then there's a question of Ted O'Brien as
Speaker 4: Deputy leader. He has a choice of whatever role he
Speaker 4: would like to do. He is the chief promoter, or
Speaker 4: has been the chief promoter of the nuclear energy policy,
Speaker 4: which has proved so unpalatable with the electorate. And the
Speaker 4: other thing I would say is it'll be interesting to
Speaker 4: see how Albanezi changes, because I think he's found it
Speaker 4: difficult to attack women in Parliament, and whenever he has
Speaker 4: done so, even if it's reasonably mild, he has come
Speaker 4: under sustained attack from the opposition for doing so. So
Speaker 4: it will be a sight to see. But we've got
Speaker 4: a few weeks to see them all assemble again.
Speaker 1: Karen, what's your sense? Obviously day one, Susan Lee couldn't
Speaker 1: be more determined, more eye on the task, knows what
Speaker 1: to be done. But the litany of jobs ahead of
Speaker 1: her that you've just described seems pretty daunting. Party cohesion,
Speaker 1: bringing women back, the policy staff, thinking about uniting the
Speaker 1: center and the right of the party, all of these things,
Speaker 1: not to mention getting to a position where they might
Speaker 1: be able to pick up another thirty four seats before
Speaker 1: the next election. Do you see Susan Lee going the
Speaker 1: distance and do you think that she might be able
Speaker 1: to get them within coui of government again after a
Speaker 1: term well.
Speaker 4: She says that she is not being presented just as
Speaker 4: the female leader to be set up to fail or
Speaker 4: set up to clean up the men's mess. But the
Speaker 4: party is certainly united by being winded by this loss.
Speaker 4: Certainly they see this as a wake up call. They
Speaker 4: just have to do something differently, because they've had these
Speaker 4: warnings at least since twenty sixteen and look at them now.
Speaker 4: But I see very much division about the direction of
Speaker 4: the party, about what it needs to do, and I
Speaker 4: certainly see naked ambition from survivors of the party. So
Speaker 4: you know, never discount a political party's ability to find
Speaker 4: more enemies within it. Then without.
Speaker 1: Karen, thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Also in the news today and your wage growth has
Speaker 1: hit three point four percent over the past year, the
Speaker 1: first time wage growth has ticked up since the June
Speaker 1: quarter of twenty twenty four. The data from the ABS
Speaker 1: shows wage growth is outpacing inflation, with consumer prices rising
Speaker 1: just two point four percent over the same period, meaning
Speaker 1: the gap between Australians living costs and pay packets is
Speaker 1: gradually narrowing. And a Queensland man is feared to have
Speaker 1: been killed while fighting in Ukraine. Sources in Ukraine have
Speaker 1: told Australian media that Kleb Blist, who joined the Ukrainian
Speaker 1: Foreign Legion in twenty twenty two, is currently missing and
Speaker 1: believed to have died in heavy fighting last month. The
Speaker 1: Department of Foreign Affairs says it's providing consular advice to
Speaker 1: the families of those missing in Ukraine and is urging
Speaker 1: Australians not to travel to the region. I'm Michael Williams
Speaker 1: seven am, will be back tomorrow and Daniel James will
Speaker 1: be back in the chair. Thanks for listening.