WEBVTT - Can Sussan Ley rebuild the Coalition? 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.360 Three years ago this month, Susan Lee stood beside Peter 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:09.200 Dutton as his deputy, the newly installed pair, appearing confident 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:10.680 of the contest ahead. 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:14.239 I'm really proud of the fact that Susan Lee as 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:18.840 my deputy will not only be the Deputy leader, but 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:23.479 the Shadow Minister for Industry, for Skills and Training and 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:24.880 Shadow Minister for Women. 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.640 Lee backed Dutton enthusiastically. 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:30.680 Can I thank you Peter for your leadership to date 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:33.920 and say that you are absolutely the best person for 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:34.480 this job. 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:38.640 But now it's twenty twenty five and she faces the 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:42.600 public as the coalition's new leader after voters rejected the 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:47.120 Dutton Lee project and inflicted the party's worst defeat on record. 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:51.720 The task ahead for Lee is threefold. Hold the coalition together, 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:55.600 reset the policy platform, and win back the city women 0:00:55.760 --> 0:01:02.880 and younger voters who have abandoned them. From Schwartz Media, 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:06.160 I'm Michael Williams, filling in for Daniel and Ruby. This 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:11.200 is seven am today, Chief political correspondent for the Saturday Paper, 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:15.839 Karen Barlow on Susan Lee's uphill battle to rebuild the coalition. 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:26.199 It's Thursday, May fifteenth. Karen, thanks for speaking with me. Now, 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:31.320 Susan Lee might arguably have the toughest job in politics. 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:35.200 That's bringing the Liberal Party back to life after what 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:39.040 can generously be called a route. So what she said 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:41.679 since she won the leadership about how she's going to 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:43.119 approach that mammoth. 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:47.039 Task, well, in short, Susan Lee says she is up 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:52.000 for the job. So big statement, big job absolutely with 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:55.000 her stepping into it. There's a number of firsts. She's 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:58.600 a first female opposition leader, first female leader of the 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:03.480 Liberal Party, and first regional MP as leader since Malcolm Fraser. 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:08.359 It is an enormous privilege to have been elected the 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:10.880 leader of the parliamentary Liberal Party. 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.960 I am humbled, I am honored, and I am up. 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:16.360 For the job. 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:19.840 She says. This thumping election lost to Labor was a 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:24.960 significant defeat and it's not lost on anyone in the 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:28.640 Liberal Party. She says that the Liberals respect the result. 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:32.079 I guess they have to, and they're going to reflect 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:32.840 with humility. 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:38.240 We have to have a Liberal Party that respects modern Australia, 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:43.160 that reflects modern Australia, and that represents modern Australia. 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.640 Susan Lee says, it's time to listen. It's time to 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:50.160 develop robust policy processes. 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:51.679 And we have to have a fresh approach. 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.720 I want to harness the talents of every single person 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.120 in our party room going forward. 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:05.600 Flex this criticism within the party that the leadership under 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:08.480 Peter Dutton did not talk to the back bench, didn't 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:13.400 really talk to anyone outside the leadership office. So that's 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:16.679 something that they're going to go forward on. Susan Lee 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.640 also saying that there'll be no more captain picks, so 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:23.320 that's also reflecting on this call for unity and to 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:27.000 be collegiate. So it's time for a different approach, she says, 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.760 and time to be more consultative. 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:33.720 Preaching the need to do things differently seems pretty wise 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:36.000 at this point. She spoke quite a bit in the 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:40.320 press conference about her upbringing and her career, So tell 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:43.080 us a bit about that and about how that shaped 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:46.200 how she's going to approach doing things differently. 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.800 Yeah, look, it was really interesting the way she presented herself. 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:53.960 We immediately got a reintroduction to Susan Lee. Certainly for 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:57.760 many Actually it's an introduction. This is about not just 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.520 her as a politician, but her as a person. She 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:03.680 told us sis story about her as a migrant someone 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:05.680 who came to Australia as a teenager. 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:08.480 I stepped out of the airplane at Brisbane Airport and 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:10.920 I looked at this brilliant blue sky. I knew that 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.360 I'd come to the best country on Earth, and I 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:16.000 knew that Australia was a place where I could dream 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:17.320 my biggest dreams. 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:21.839 And she was actually born in Nigeria. Her dad was 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:25.719 a British intelligence officer and she also spent time in 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.760 the United Arab Emirates, so she's done a lot. She 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:32.600 became an aerial stock muster pilot. She still flies to 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:35.120 this day. She flies all around her electorate, which is 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:39.320 very large. Pharah is a very large regional electorate. She 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:42.320 was also a shearer's cook. Sometime in the nineteen eighties. 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:45.880 She had a brief punk rock phase, which is very interesting. 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:48.680 Not many photos of that exist publicly, but I'm sure 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:52.880 they're out there somewhere. She has master's degrees in taxation 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:56.960 and accountancy before getting elected in two thousand and one, 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:01.560 and that's now a twenty four year political career in 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:04.640 Federal Parliament, the same as Peter Dutton. So she's had 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:08.800 an interesting ascension into politics. She's had various roles in 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:14.080 opposition and in government under various Liberal leaders, notably Minister 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:19.240 of Health, Minister of Age Care, and Minister of the Environment. 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:23.000 Straight after that she ascends to be Deputy Opposition Leader, 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:27.000 and right here and now as the new federal leader 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:27.920 of the Liberal Party. 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:33.839 One of the things that I always remember about Susan Lee, 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:37.880 fairly or unfairly, is around the irregular spelling of her 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.600 first name, And I was wondering if you could talk 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.440 us through that, because that's something that has stuck in 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:43.880 the mind. 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:47.440 Yeah, I think this aspect of Susan Lee is getting 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:49.320 a lot of attention at the moment. I think it's 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:51.680 one of the big Google hits. Certainly there's a lot 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:54.680 of memes going around at the moment. In short, Susan 0:05:54.760 --> 0:06:00.280 with two essays came from a dabble in numerology. Lee 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:04.359 gave an interview in twenty fifteen where she said that 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:09.080 she was advised that if you add the numbers which 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:13.080 matched the letters in your name, it could lead to 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:17.920 her having an incredibly exciting and interesting life and that 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.520 nothing would ever be boring. So I guess if you 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:24.359 can reflect on the fact that she's now ascended to 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.280 the leader of the Liberal Party. She definitely is not 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:33.640 having a boring life. But this is something that conservative 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:39.680 bos were putting around in this dirt sheet on Susan 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.279 Lee when she was vying for the job she now has, 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:47.360 and they were pointing to the Essa's mocking it, and 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.480 I guess it just points to the detractors that she 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:51.960 still has within the party. 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:55.719 She was, of course Peter Dutton's deputy, so some of 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:59.560 it must stem from that. How different is she ideologically 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:02.520 to Dutton and what does she need to do now 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:03.960 to distance herself from him? 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.400 I mean, immediately, the first job after such a devastating 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:11.200 loss is to unify, unify what's left of the Liberal 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:15.600 Party and the coalition, remembering that the federal Liberal leader 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:19.440 is the leader of the coalition and it's something that 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:22.920 has to be united as a first responsibility, and that 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:27.560 will be a mammoth job. Lee is a moderate, unlike 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:32.040 Peter Dutton, who is of the hard right. Moderates are 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.960 on the decline. They have been for a while, especially 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:39.240 after the twenty twenty two Teal wave, and the party 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:44.360 room leans right. So there is strong internal and external 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:47.480 urgings for the Liberal Party to lean further into the 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:50.800 right and probably will shift more so after some Senate 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:56.200 changes in June. But the big job after ascending is 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:59.160 to sort out the shadow cabinet who's going to be 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:03.080 a front bench. Lee's job is to listen, to stop 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:06.760 and to pause and you know, really bring the party 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.920 together as it faces this existential crisis. 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.240 After the break, is Susan Lee breaking the glass ceiling 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:27.400 or being pushed off the glass cliff? Karen, The first 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:30.600 question in Susan Lee's presser as leader was about the 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:33.840 nuclear policy. What sense do you have about whether the 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:36.880 Liberal Party is willing to walk away from what Peter 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.160 Dutton was so enthusiastically prosecuting. 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:43.360 Yeah, there's having interest in this and at this point 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:44.080 we don't know. 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:45.880 We'll just hearing this party Ramoni. 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:49.079 A couple of hours ago, I committed to my colleagues 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:53.240 that there would be no captain's calls from anywhere by me, 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:54.719 and I also. 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:58.800 The Nationals still appear keen and they didn't lose any 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:03.320 seats in the twenty twenty five election. Lee has not 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:07.200 committed either way. She did say that energy policy is 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.280 part of the review that will be done after the 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:11.160 election loss. 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:17.160 There is going to be sound, sensible consultation and I 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:19.679 undertake one hundred percent to do that. 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:22.880 She did say, however, that there is not going to 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:27.960 be any climate wars going forward. The big task for 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:31.360 the Labor Party at the moment in the field of 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:36.920 climate is to present a twenty thirty five net zero target, 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:39.920 So we're waiting on that on the Labor side. 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.959 Karen, I'd love to touch on the gender question for 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.040 a moment. You know, there is a real temptation to 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:49.560 see Lee's appointment as the first woman to lead the 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:52.480 Liberal Party as being an example of that phenomenon of 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.319 the glass cliff. Only when things are pretty dire does 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:57.920 a woman finally get elevated to the top job. But 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:03.080 as you've outlined, she's hugely experienced and appealing to women 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.120 is a key priority to the Liberal Party at this 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:08.720 point in time. What do we know about how she 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:10.960 might try to appeal to female voters. 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:12.800 Well, look, this will be a huge part of the 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:15.400 review going forward. There were lots of messages in the 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:20.400 twenty twenty two election review done by frontbencher Jane Hume 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:24.240 and former Director of the Federal Party Brian Lockney. They 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:28.000 had lots of ideas about getting back women and they 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:33.439 were pretty much ignored. Lee was the shadow spokesperson for women. 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:37.520 She is aware of the problems. 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:39.760 And I said in my statement for candidacy for this 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:41.960 position that we did let women down. 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:44.640 There is no doubt about that. And it is true 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:45.240 that the. 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:49.400 Numbers of women who are supporting us is declining, and 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:51.640 I want to rule a line under that. I don't 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.560 want to see that decline for one more day. 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:58.960 This new agenda to bring back women inside and outside 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.480 the party is something that she says that she will 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:07.000 personally drive. There is inside the party strong support from 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:09.720 the women that are left inside the party for Susan Lee. 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:12.880 I understand a lot of them voted for her in 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.160 the leadership ballot. And you know, when we talk about 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:20.440 this being an existential crisis for the Liberal Party, this 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:24.440 issue of women will be absolutely front and center. 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.280 In many ways. Susan Lee will been an interesting opponent 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:31.600 for Anthony ALBERNIZI. He's been used to sparring at times 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:35.800 in fairly aggressive terms with Peter Dutton. So how would 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:39.480 you describe her parliamentary approach? What kind of performer is 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:40.079 she in the room. 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:43.560 It's going to be really interesting seeing Lee in Parliament 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:46.839 and whether she's going to change. Lee, so far as 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:49.120 we've seen her in Parliament is not afraid to get 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:52.640 in there for a scrap. She does things to unsettle 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:57.000 people in Parliament, particularly Tanya Plitisk. 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:58.920 A point of order in relevance, Mister Speaker, and I 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.800 respectfully submit that the Minister was going nowhere near the question, 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:05.240 which was quite straightforward and quite simple. Does she still 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:07.679 support the introduction of a federal EPA. 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:12.960 They've been sparring all over the past term. The deputy 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.880 leader of the Opposition Order, there's. 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:18.600 A difference between Strong and Agro. 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:24.560 The Agros constantly order. I would say that there will 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:27.040 be some sort of change and we have to see 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:29.720 who she assembles on her front bench and how she 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:33.680 operates with them. She's already indicated that Angus Taylor will 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:38.360 have an integral role and Justinta nampajinpur Price really did 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:41.880 want to get the deputy position so much so she 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:44.520 had to move from the National Party Room to the 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:48.560 Liberal Party room and upset people on both sides to 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.600 do so. Then there's a question of Ted O'Brien as 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.480 Deputy leader. He has a choice of whatever role he 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:59.400 would like to do. He is the chief promoter, or 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:02.600 has been the chief promoter of the nuclear energy policy, 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:07.840 which has proved so unpalatable with the electorate. And the 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:10.280 other thing I would say is it'll be interesting to 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:14.200 see how Albanezi changes, because I think he's found it 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:18.480 difficult to attack women in Parliament, and whenever he has 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:22.320 done so, even if it's reasonably mild, he has come 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:25.560 under sustained attack from the opposition for doing so. So 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:28.440 it will be a sight to see. But we've got 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:30.720 a few weeks to see them all assemble again. 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:35.320 Karen, what's your sense? Obviously day one, Susan Lee couldn't 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:38.560 be more determined, more eye on the task, knows what 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:42.760 to be done. But the litany of jobs ahead of 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:46.400 her that you've just described seems pretty daunting. Party cohesion, 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:51.160 bringing women back, the policy staff, thinking about uniting the 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:54.080 center and the right of the party, all of these things, 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:56.439 not to mention getting to a position where they might 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.400 be able to pick up another thirty four seats before 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.840 the next election. Do you see Susan Lee going the 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:05.680 distance and do you think that she might be able 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:09.319 to get them within coui of government again after a 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:10.240 term well. 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:14.160 She says that she is not being presented just as 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:19.040 the female leader to be set up to fail or 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.520 set up to clean up the men's mess. But the 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:27.560 party is certainly united by being winded by this loss. 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:32.000 Certainly they see this as a wake up call. They 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:36.000 just have to do something differently, because they've had these 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:40.520 warnings at least since twenty sixteen and look at them now. 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:45.800 But I see very much division about the direction of 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.920 the party, about what it needs to do, and I 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:54.400 certainly see naked ambition from survivors of the party. So 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:58.480 you know, never discount a political party's ability to find 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.600 more enemies within it. Then without. 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:06.960 Karen, thanks so much for your time. 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:07.640 Thank you. 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:19.280 Also in the news today and your wage growth has 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.320 hit three point four percent over the past year, the 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:24.840 first time wage growth has ticked up since the June 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:28.440 quarter of twenty twenty four. The data from the ABS 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:33.040 shows wage growth is outpacing inflation, with consumer prices rising 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.480 just two point four percent over the same period, meaning 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:40.240 the gap between Australians living costs and pay packets is 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:44.000 gradually narrowing. And a Queensland man is feared to have 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.680 been killed while fighting in Ukraine. Sources in Ukraine have 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:51.440 told Australian media that Kleb Blist, who joined the Ukrainian 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.960 Foreign Legion in twenty twenty two, is currently missing and 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:58.400 believed to have died in heavy fighting last month. The 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.800 Department of Foreign Affairs says it's providing consular advice to 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:04.640 the families of those missing in Ukraine and is urging 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:08.880 Australians not to travel to the region. I'm Michael Williams 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:12.040 seven am, will be back tomorrow and Daniel James will 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:14.480 be back in the chair. Thanks for listening.