1
00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,920
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to The Australian's Money Puzzled podcast. I'm

2
00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,200
Speaker 1: James Kirby. Welcome aboard everybody. There's so much I want

3
00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:17,800
Speaker 1: to talk to you about this week. I think we're

4
00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,159
Speaker 1: going to have to actually break it up. We have

5
00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:24,680
Speaker 1: some really interesting changes in the property market happening before

6
00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,960
Speaker 1: our eyes, and to be honest, perhaps not entirely reported

7
00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:30,720
Speaker 1: on or fully analyzed yet, and hopefully we can get

8
00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,920
Speaker 1: you ahead of the pack here on this I'm talking

9
00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,480
Speaker 1: about changes in relation to property taxes that are coming

10
00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,960
Speaker 1: down the line, property grants that are coming along, both

11
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:46,479
Speaker 1: federal and state, and also some very really bad results

12
00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:48,960
Speaker 1: coming out of the unit and apartments market, which again

13
00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,200
Speaker 1: we haven't had a chance to talk about on the show.

14
00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:53,920
Speaker 1: Just quickly. Also, we had a response, We had a

15
00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:58,320
Speaker 1: storm of response I think on Jackie Clark's most recent

16
00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,720
Speaker 1: featuring on the show, which was the show where she

17
00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,200
Speaker 1: was talking about crypto, that is, she was talking from

18
00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:08,440
Speaker 1: the skeptic side about crypto, and we will deal with

19
00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,520
Speaker 1: it afresh on Thursday's show. There's a lot to talk

20
00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,039
Speaker 1: about both the markets and I think perhaps the changing

21
00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,320
Speaker 1: certainly among our audience here changing response to crypto, But

22
00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:22,520
Speaker 1: on property, I want to get straight into it.

23
00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:23,160
Speaker 2: I have.

24
00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,840
Speaker 1: I thought I had everything, actually all my ducks in

25
00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:27,479
Speaker 1: a row here, and then just as we were about

26
00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,959
Speaker 1: to start the show, I see the Queensland premiere in

27
00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,120
Speaker 1: a race, perhaps to exceed the generosity of the Albanesi

28
00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:41,119
Speaker 1: government has this morning announced a first home buyer guarantee scheme.

29
00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,440
Speaker 1: We do you hear this? And all you need is

30
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,920
Speaker 1: a two percent deposit up to a million bucks, so

31
00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,920
Speaker 1: you can buy a million dollar home on a ninety

32
00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,000
Speaker 1: eight percent deposit and if that is good for the market,

33
00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,160
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I know someone who will know, though,

34
00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,200
Speaker 1: which is Cameron Kusher. How are you Cameron?

35
00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm both like Gimes. How are you good?

36
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,360
Speaker 1: And good to have you on the show, folks. Cameron

37
00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,280
Speaker 1: is with Cameron Kusher of Kusher Consulting. He is someone

38
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,520
Speaker 1: who is an expert in property analysis and I've known

39
00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,160
Speaker 1: him for a long time. Goes back to at least

40
00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,280
Speaker 1: ten years ago with Core Logic, where he seemed to

41
00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,200
Speaker 1: be there for a decade or so. I would think

42
00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,959
Speaker 1: he was with Ria or real estate dot com dot you,

43
00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,240
Speaker 1: a neose core company for several years, and now he

44
00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:25,919
Speaker 1: has gone out on his own. And I love when

45
00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,040
Speaker 1: people go out on their own because they are free

46
00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,880
Speaker 1: to talk in a much in a much easier fashion

47
00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,840
Speaker 1: than when they are inside a larger company. And that

48
00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,919
Speaker 1: goes for anything. If we could, Although I've already teased

49
00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,640
Speaker 1: people with this home loan guarantee, what's going on there?

50
00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:43,520
Speaker 1: I really would like to talk to you about taxes

51
00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,880
Speaker 1: and property. I'll tell you why. I mean, everyone's always

52
00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,040
Speaker 1: talked about land tax in property, and that was people

53
00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,239
Speaker 1: are always unhappy with it, in it on realized gains

54
00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,800
Speaker 1: basically paper gains that you end up tax on the

55
00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:56,880
Speaker 1: unimproved value of the land. And now the new super

56
00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,200
Speaker 1: tax is a similar sort of thing. But also well

57
00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,160
Speaker 1: there's the gym Chalmers. It's going to do a major

58
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,079
Speaker 1: review of tax. Tell me you've got instinct justical where

59
00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,200
Speaker 1: property investors will be in this review.

60
00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,280
Speaker 2: Look, I think in terms of property investors, there's probably

61
00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,320
Speaker 2: a risk that tax on investment properties go up. We

62
00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,320
Speaker 2: have already seen in Victoria obviously that the state government

63
00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:25,040
Speaker 2: there has increased taxes on property investors quite substantially. And look,

64
00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,000
Speaker 2: I think if any tax is going to any tax

65
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,040
Speaker 2: change is going to come for the property sector. It's

66
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,079
Speaker 2: probably not going to be a blanket move to land

67
00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,280
Speaker 2: tax and removing stamp duty, although I think that's the

68
00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,960
Speaker 2: thing that probably makes most sense. I think it would

69
00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,600
Speaker 2: likely be some sort of increase in taxes on investors,

70
00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,120
Speaker 2: and I think the reasoning that they would give for

71
00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,800
Speaker 2: that is that we try to level the playing field

72
00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,760
Speaker 2: for first home buyers. Whether that actually does happens or

73
00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,640
Speaker 2: not probably debatable. And I think the other thing when

74
00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:59,880
Speaker 2: you lift taxes on property investors is that you get

75
00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,800
Speaker 2: rests or fewer rental properties. Now that might not actually

76
00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,040
Speaker 2: be an issue if you're getting more people buying first times.

77
00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,440
Speaker 2: But at the same time, the federal government and state

78
00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,320
Speaker 2: governments are giving a lot of tax breaks to build

79
00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,640
Speaker 2: to rent developers, which are institutional investors from overseas. And

80
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,320
Speaker 2: one of the analyzes I'd love to see is how

81
00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,440
Speaker 2: do the tax breaks that individual investors get for property

82
00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:26,240
Speaker 2: stack up to how many tax breaks we're giving overseas

83
00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,120
Speaker 2: capital as tax breaks to come in and build to rent.

84
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:30,880
Speaker 2: And I haven't seen that analysis anyway.

85
00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,000
Speaker 1: Yes, because they do it at a big level, don't they,

86
00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,400
Speaker 1: And they get some exemptions that people wouldn't be familiar with.

87
00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:40,919
Speaker 1: But in terms of the perceived vulnerability if you like,

88
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,520
Speaker 1: of the property investment residential property investment sector two tax lifts.

89
00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:50,040
Speaker 1: We've seen them in state governments. If Chudres was to

90
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,479
Speaker 1: find it a way to do that in property, what

91
00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,400
Speaker 1: do you think would be the route.

92
00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,560
Speaker 2: Look, I think if that was the reasoning for doing

93
00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,000
Speaker 2: it would, as I said, I think, be about leveling

94
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,480
Speaker 2: the playing field. But really it's probably more about revenue raising,

95
00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,120
Speaker 2: and what you would see is people that own investment

96
00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,200
Speaker 2: properties currently they would probably change their plans and look

97
00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,040
Speaker 2: to exit those investment properties and they go and park

98
00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,880
Speaker 2: their capital somewhere else, and then over time you would

99
00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,560
Speaker 2: get fewer people investing in property. And I think that's

100
00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:24,320
Speaker 2: probably more problematic because yes, there's a big encouragement of

101
00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,520
Speaker 2: buil to rent here in Australia at the moment, but

102
00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,040
Speaker 2: it's still very much at its infancy and a lot

103
00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:30,880
Speaker 2: of what is being delivered in the build to red

104
00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,760
Speaker 2: space is premium rental product, so it's actually cheaper than

105
00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,239
Speaker 2: what the established market already has and it's.

106
00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,960
Speaker 1: Not at a big enough scut But in terms of

107
00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,120
Speaker 1: the tax for investors, what do you think you'd go for?

108
00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,120
Speaker 1: Is it downe tax, is it stamp duty, negative gearing.

109
00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,680
Speaker 2: Look, I think it'll be a move on land tax

110
00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,760
Speaker 2: and possibly negative gearing. But I don't think he'd be

111
00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,800
Speaker 2: brave enough to change negative gearing or capital gains tax

112
00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:59,520
Speaker 2: discount without taking that to an election first, because I

113
00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,159
Speaker 2: think if they they did that, they would blow an

114
00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,159
Speaker 2: awful lot of their political capital. So I think the

115
00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,480
Speaker 2: most likely one is landtak.

116
00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:10,320
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, yeah, interesting, And I suppose the precedent

117
00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,800
Speaker 1: is there. They put the superinuation tax up on Riolann's

118
00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,600
Speaker 1: gains fifteen percent on a month's on earn ex months

119
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,480
Speaker 1: above three million, they put it up, they won the election,

120
00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,240
Speaker 1: so that is a very kind of sound process for

121
00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,080
Speaker 1: them politically to move the pump. Okay, yeah, interesting. Now

122
00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:36,279
Speaker 1: you've said in the past the property isn't effectively taxed anyway, So.

123
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,880
Speaker 2: What's from I view? I think, and not looking necessarily

124
00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,640
Speaker 2: just from an investor's perspective. Obviously, investors do play land tax,

125
00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,560
Speaker 2: whereas owner occupiers don't. I think if we look at

126
00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,640
Speaker 2: the tax system with property, the biggest challenge or the

127
00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,400
Speaker 2: biggest problem, is that we still rely on stamp duty. Now,

128
00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,120
Speaker 2: if you look in any given year, only about four

129
00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,159
Speaker 2: and a half percent of all the properties in the

130
00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:59,200
Speaker 2: country transact, and that accounts for the state and local

131
00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,440
Speaker 2: governments through about twenty five to thirty percent of their

132
00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:06,159
Speaker 2: tax revenue, So you're getting so you're basically relying on

133
00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,480
Speaker 2: four and a half percent of the people that transacted

134
00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,280
Speaker 2: property a year to fund your coffers. Now, that leads

135
00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,600
Speaker 2: to very volatile revenue year to year depending on how

136
00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,240
Speaker 2: the housing market's going. I think you should scrap stamp

137
00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:21,880
Speaker 2: duty completely and replace it with a land tax on

138
00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:26,280
Speaker 2: all properties, not just on investment properties. That way, state

139
00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,080
Speaker 2: governments have got guaranteed revenue. In fact, if you've got

140
00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,240
Speaker 2: land tax in place, one of the ways to grow

141
00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,560
Speaker 2: that land tax revenue will be to approve more housing

142
00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,880
Speaker 2: and encourage more people to come and build new houses

143
00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,760
Speaker 2: in your market. So I think moving the land tax

144
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,680
Speaker 2: is both a good efficiency for the housing market, but

145
00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,120
Speaker 2: it could also really be good for delivering a lot

146
00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,800
Speaker 2: more housing in the market as well, because you might

147
00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,400
Speaker 2: find that all of a sudden, local and state governments

148
00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,960
Speaker 2: become a lot more pro adding new housing supply because

149
00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:58,960
Speaker 2: that means more people paying land tax.

150
00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:00,560
Speaker 1: A lot of people on the show I've complained that

151
00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,280
Speaker 1: in Victoria it's actually a model of what you don't do.

152
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,240
Speaker 1: They just stacked property taxes up, ten of them in

153
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,120
Speaker 1: a rule on property and guess what, it's got the

154
00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,720
Speaker 1: lowest investor activity. It's got the worst numbers there is there.

155
00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,800
Speaker 1: Do you think that's the explanation or do you think

156
00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,280
Speaker 1: that one led to the other? Look.

157
00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,960
Speaker 2: I think in Victoria definitely led to another, but it

158
00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,360
Speaker 2: was more it was very much just focused on the

159
00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,080
Speaker 2: investor market. I think that if I think there should

160
00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,280
Speaker 2: be land tax on all properties, at the moment you're

161
00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,800
Speaker 2: only paying land tax on investment properties, not on own

162
00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,880
Speaker 2: or occupied properties. I think it's a much more reasonable

163
00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,200
Speaker 2: system to have land tax on all properties, but have

164
00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,280
Speaker 2: it and do away with stab duty.

165
00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:42,200
Speaker 1: Right, So, if we're listening listeners who have investment property

166
00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,680
Speaker 1: in terms of the outlook for tax, then you what

167
00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,600
Speaker 1: do you think is this sort of most likely tax

168
00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:51,440
Speaker 1: issue forming for them?

169
00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:53,920
Speaker 2: I think that the most likely tax issue forming for

170
00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,959
Speaker 2: them is that there is an increase in land tax

171
00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,600
Speaker 2: to investors. But there's no introduction of land tax for

172
00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:02,720
Speaker 2: owner occupiers. So we're not going to do away with

173
00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,199
Speaker 2: stamp duty. But what the federal government potentially looks at

174
00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,400
Speaker 2: is just lifting land tax further on investors and discouraging

175
00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,320
Speaker 2: investment further. And I think for investors that's problematic. I

176
00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,600
Speaker 2: think what we really need to be doing is removing

177
00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,400
Speaker 2: stamp duty and having a land tax on all properties,

178
00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,240
Speaker 2: not just on investment properties.

179
00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,119
Speaker 1: Okay, very good, and I suppose I know it's unfortunate.

180
00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,000
Speaker 1: But one thing that backs into what you're saying that

181
00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,680
Speaker 1: land tax could lift is that there is a precedent

182
00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:35,520
Speaker 1: with the supertax where there is unrealized gains tax, and

183
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,120
Speaker 1: that is they're sticking with that, so it would actually

184
00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,120
Speaker 1: be consistent. The last thing I imagine many investors want

185
00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:42,760
Speaker 1: to hear. Okay, we'll take short break with me back

186
00:09:42,760 --> 00:10:00,000
Speaker 1: in a moment. Hello, Welcome back to the Australians Money.

187
00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,680
Speaker 1: I'm James Kirby and I'm talking to Cameron Kusher of

188
00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:08,080
Speaker 1: Kusher Consulting, a veteran of the property analysis market in

189
00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,520
Speaker 1: Australia and well known by investors and property professionals alike.

190
00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,080
Speaker 1: Now we were just talking there just in the first segment.

191
00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,080
Speaker 1: I think we were talking about tax. What might happen

192
00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,040
Speaker 1: with tax in this big review in relation to property

193
00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:23,720
Speaker 1: for you as an investor and how does that matter.

194
00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:28,440
Speaker 1: It's interesting. I talked to Louis Christopher SQM, another very

195
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,440
Speaker 1: well known researcher Friday. He said capital gainst tax for sure,

196
00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:36,120
Speaker 1: he thought it was a probability over a possibility. Cameron

197
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,200
Speaker 1: is actually of the opinion it will be land tax.

198
00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,160
Speaker 1: And how that would work, of course, is that it

199
00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,959
Speaker 1: would be fed camer in conjunction with state governments, and

200
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,240
Speaker 1: that is entirely possible of course with the current sort

201
00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,240
Speaker 1: of political alignment that we have across the country. So

202
00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,880
Speaker 1: stand by. But I think it's pretty clear property is

203
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,360
Speaker 1: not going to escape a major tax review. Okay, Now

204
00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,200
Speaker 1: another thing I wanted to talk to you about. This

205
00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,400
Speaker 1: oneing Cameron was about the ullnits market. I had no

206
00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,920
Speaker 1: idea it was so bad. The apartment loss is g

207
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,640
Speaker 1: I mean, one in five apartments sold in Melbourne sort

208
00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,240
Speaker 1: in a loss. Ninety percent of all loss making properties

209
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,520
Speaker 1: in Sydney apartments. What's going on?

210
00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is actually a trend that's been

211
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,080
Speaker 2: around for a while. I think it's being exacerbated at

212
00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,480
Speaker 2: the moment by the fact that the Melbourne housing market

213
00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:28,040
Speaker 2: is generally quite weak. But this really is driven by

214
00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,600
Speaker 2: the fact that what drives the increase in property values

215
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,760
Speaker 2: is the increase in land value. And when if we

216
00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,400
Speaker 2: have a look at apartments, they've got a very tiny

217
00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,800
Speaker 2: component of that property, which is land, so typically they

218
00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,640
Speaker 2: don't appreciate, and especially when you buy brand new properties,

219
00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,559
Speaker 2: they will typically depreciate because the idea is you buy

220
00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,680
Speaker 2: a brand new property, you pay a premium for that

221
00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,920
Speaker 2: brand new property, and you'd depreciate all the fixtures within

222
00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,960
Speaker 2: that property and it's generally reduces in price over time.

223
00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:02,800
Speaker 2: So I think firstly, from an investment perspective, we find

224
00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,439
Speaker 2: that apartments tend to not be as good of an

225
00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:09,240
Speaker 2: investment as houses because houses sit on land, the land

226
00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,160
Speaker 2: increases in price. And secondly, I think there is this

227
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,240
Speaker 2: big push at the moment to get more housing density

228
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,080
Speaker 2: into our cities, get more people living in apartments, and

229
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,319
Speaker 2: I think there's a limit to how strong that push

230
00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:23,240
Speaker 2: is going to be because I think most people in

231
00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,520
Speaker 2: Australia want to buy a property and want that property

232
00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,360
Speaker 2: to increase in price over time to make them feel wealthier.

233
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,120
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people realize if they

234
00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,320
Speaker 2: go and buy an apartment, they're not going to get

235
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,520
Speaker 2: that same level of capital growth as they would get

236
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:38,040
Speaker 2: with a house.

237
00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:39,920
Speaker 1: All right, So it sounds to me I think you're

238
00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,080
Speaker 1: a faitalistic or whatever, but you're not of only opinion

239
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:43,880
Speaker 1: that this gap has gone to narrow. There was this

240
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,720
Speaker 1: theory that, you know, units would surely catch up with

241
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,400
Speaker 1: houses and the gap would niril and that maybe first

242
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,720
Speaker 1: tom buyers would move in and buy off investors. That's

243
00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,880
Speaker 1: not clearly not happening in the big cities, no.

244
00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,719
Speaker 2: I mean, I think some first home buyers buy an

245
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,840
Speaker 2: apartment initially mainly because they want to live close to

246
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:04,880
Speaker 2: a certain area and they can't afford a house in

247
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,040
Speaker 2: that market. But I think a lot of the apartments

248
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,400
Speaker 2: that are being built now you know you've got smaller

249
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,800
Speaker 2: one and two bedroom apartments, there's not a lot of

250
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,800
Speaker 2: those being built at the moment. And they might be

251
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,000
Speaker 2: good when you're young, when you sing, or when you're

252
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,800
Speaker 2: in a couple, but once you get to this point

253
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,640
Speaker 2: where you're having kids, they're no longer really viable to

254
00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,360
Speaker 2: live in those properties. A lot of what else is

255
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,040
Speaker 2: being built at the moment is large three and four

256
00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:31,760
Speaker 2: bedroom product, and that's largely targeted at people downsizing out

257
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,960
Speaker 2: of big homes in premium locations into these and they're

258
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,120
Speaker 2: just not affordable for most people that are on a budget.

259
00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,360
Speaker 2: And realistically, a lot of those new apartments that are

260
00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,680
Speaker 2: being built, when you look at the price of them

261
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,480
Speaker 2: and you compare it to the price of a house

262
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:46,840
Speaker 2: in the suburb they're in, or a house in a

263
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,599
Speaker 2: suburb reasonably close by, you're probably going to find the

264
00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,640
Speaker 2: people are going people that are not downsizing are going

265
00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,080
Speaker 2: to preference buying a house in a nearby suburb rather

266
00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:58,880
Speaker 2: than the apartment in that suburb.

267
00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,720
Speaker 1: Right, yes, yeah, yeah, So one of the underlying things

268
00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,640
Speaker 1: there I think you're saying is that it's also deer anyway,

269
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,079
Speaker 1: it's also expensive, and so your yields are poor, right,

270
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:13,000
Speaker 1: its are pretty bad in any event. Yeah, yeah, I mean.

271
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,800
Speaker 2: There's some exceptions. Obviously, Apartments in places like Darwin have

272
00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,320
Speaker 2: very good yields. Even Canberra has quite good yields on

273
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,320
Speaker 2: apartments as well. And surprisingly, or maybe not surprisingly, rental

274
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,840
Speaker 2: yields on apartments in Melbourne at the moment are really high.

275
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,120
Speaker 2: They're quite strong. So if Victoria didn't have this higher

276
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,440
Speaker 2: rate of land tax to invest it, you would probably

277
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,680
Speaker 2: actually see quite a lot of people investing in inner

278
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,960
Speaker 2: city Melbourne apartments at the moment, I think the yield's

279
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,480
Speaker 2: the best it's been in about twenty five years. But

280
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,200
Speaker 2: obviously people are not doing I mean that's the gross yield.

281
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,720
Speaker 2: The net yield obviously, because you've got that higher land

282
00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:47,920
Speaker 2: tax is going to be lower. But just looking at

283
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,560
Speaker 2: the figures, it actually stacks up pretty well in Melbourne

284
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,280
Speaker 2: at the moment, but you're not getting people investing in

285
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:54,600
Speaker 2: that product type at the moment.

286
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,760
Speaker 1: What are the grosser yields compared to national average?

287
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,240
Speaker 2: So I haven't looked for couple of months, looking at

288
00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,400
Speaker 2: about five and a half percent in Melbourne at the

289
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,440
Speaker 2: moment the groscio for a unit nationally you're probably looking

290
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,920
Speaker 2: at about four point four percent, so it is significantly high.

291
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,400
Speaker 1: So half for a city of five million. It sounds

292
00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,320
Speaker 1: at face value very good. But of course the reason,

293
00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:16,880
Speaker 1: as you say, as you imply, the reason is what

294
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,720
Speaker 1: the prices have been going nowhere and the gap between

295
00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,880
Speaker 1: the gross and the net has probably widened. That's very

296
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:25,840
Speaker 1: interesting now at this point, I ask you, so we

297
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,120
Speaker 1: know that the market is sort of distorted in various ways.

298
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,920
Speaker 1: Like you mentioned, how people will clearly overpay for properties

299
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,160
Speaker 1: that are downsized of properties in the suburb they used

300
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,000
Speaker 1: to live in. People are not prepared to overpay for

301
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:42,080
Speaker 1: inner city units and we've seen very poor turns in

302
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,320
Speaker 1: that market. I guess the backdrop of a passable, relatively

303
00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,560
Speaker 1: solid market for dwellings generally because that is underpinned by

304
00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,960
Speaker 1: house prices. Now into this mix we get something that

305
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,080
Speaker 1: someone has pointed out to me, which is there's going

306
00:15:58,120 --> 00:15:59,960
Speaker 1: to be because we have, first of all, a unit

307
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,680
Speaker 1: versal federal first Home Buyer scheme. Now where all you

308
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,600
Speaker 1: need is five percent, anyone or you need is five

309
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,920
Speaker 1: percent and you can buy your first home anywhere in Australia.

310
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,280
Speaker 1: There's no limit to how many people can participate in

311
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,360
Speaker 1: the scheme. The only issue is that the limit, there's

312
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,120
Speaker 1: a limit, and how much the house is worth. The

313
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,360
Speaker 1: deerest the house can be is nine hundred grand in

314
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,160
Speaker 1: Sydney and then it drops from there. So this is

315
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,480
Speaker 1: going to disturb the market. Then on top of that,

316
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,360
Speaker 1: this morning, just this morning, you pointed out that the

317
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:36,040
Speaker 1: Queensland government has just introduced a new scheme, same deal,

318
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:40,240
Speaker 1: excepted to two percent deposit two percent and you can

319
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,960
Speaker 1: buy up to a million dollar property that means they

320
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,520
Speaker 1: are encouraging people. Yes, they are encouraging people to become

321
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,320
Speaker 1: first owners and that's all fine. They are also encouraging

322
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:55,080
Speaker 1: ninety eight percent mortgages. So tell me what will the

323
00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,280
Speaker 1: impact of that be and what I'm driving towards. Is

324
00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,200
Speaker 1: it true that there will be a lot of demand

325
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,360
Speaker 1: basically immediately below the threshold, and then when you get

326
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,080
Speaker 1: to the threshold there's a big drop.

327
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,720
Speaker 2: I think that's Firstly, I think these schemes are going

328
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,680
Speaker 2: to be well supported because we know that one of

329
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,320
Speaker 2: the biggest barriers to entering home ownership is the fact

330
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,119
Speaker 2: that you have to pay. You have to pay lenders

331
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,520
Speaker 2: mortgage insurance, and obviously people have a preference to save

332
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,440
Speaker 2: a bigger deposits, so they have to pay a lower

333
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,520
Speaker 2: amount of lenders mortgage insurance. Now, if you don't have

334
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,080
Speaker 2: to pay lender's mortgage insurance, you'll be able to buy sooner.

335
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:34,000
Speaker 2: So the national the federal scheme doesn't start until January

336
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:38,000
Speaker 2: next year. The Queensland budget hasn't actually been announced just yet.

337
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,480
Speaker 2: This was a leak from the budget which comes out today.

338
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,040
Speaker 2: I suspect it we'll be starting sometime next year as well,

339
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,400
Speaker 2: but I think for me, the problem with these schemes

340
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,480
Speaker 2: is all they do is encourage more people to buy

341
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,719
Speaker 2: at the high prices we've got at the moment. And

342
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,720
Speaker 2: also when you're getting the federal government or the state

343
00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:01,800
Speaker 2: government involved in housing and effectively on the book for housing,

344
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,800
Speaker 2: there's they're going to be more encouraged to push property

345
00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,200
Speaker 2: prices higher. Now, I know, listen this to these podcasts.

346
00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:14,520
Speaker 2: Your podcast are investors, and higher property prices will help investors.

347
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,600
Speaker 2: But from a more holistic position, you know, is that

348
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,439
Speaker 2: really what we need getting more people into the housing

349
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,160
Speaker 2: market at already very high prices. And you know, all

350
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,199
Speaker 2: of basically everything that any government in Australia does at

351
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,639
Speaker 2: the moment is trying to get more first home buyers

352
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,680
Speaker 2: in the market at higher prices rather than lowering prices.

353
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,200
Speaker 2: And I think the other challenge is that every time

354
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,040
Speaker 2: they do this, next time prices are more expensive, so

355
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,359
Speaker 2: you have to give an even greater stimulus. So we're

356
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,040
Speaker 2: at a ninety two percent deposit, you know, do we

357
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 2: then get to the zero percent deposit that the government

358
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,560
Speaker 2: is actually covering all of your deposit, you don't have

359
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:55,560
Speaker 2: to have any money down. Do we get to the

360
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,720
Speaker 2: point where you've got ninja loans like they had in

361
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:01,560
Speaker 2: the US during the GFC, you know, no job loans,

362
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,960
Speaker 2: and I feel like it's a slippery slope. When I

363
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,480
Speaker 2: first started in property, it was the seven thousand dollar

364
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,840
Speaker 2: first home bio grant, then it was fourteen thousand, and

365
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,120
Speaker 2: then it was twenty one thousand. Here in Queensland it's

366
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,320
Speaker 2: now a thirty thousand dollar first home bio grand. If

367
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,399
Speaker 2: you're buying a brand new property and it's a two

368
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,360
Speaker 2: percent deposit, I feel like you're just kicking the can

369
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,800
Speaker 2: down the road. And every time, you know, every couple

370
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,399
Speaker 2: of years, they have to go to something bigger and

371
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,720
Speaker 2: more outlandish to try and help people get into the

372
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,880
Speaker 2: housing market. And at the end of the day, it's

373
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,359
Speaker 2: not actually increasing home ownership rates, particularly for younger people.

374
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,199
Speaker 2: So whilst it looks good, it's not really addressing the

375
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,879
Speaker 2: slide in home ownership we're seeing here in Australia, and

376
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:43,520
Speaker 2: just on.

377
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,119
Speaker 1: The investment point of view. So is there a merit

378
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,639
Speaker 1: in that argument that when you have these schemes, that

379
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,480
Speaker 1: it's the strata just above the threshold where the value

380
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 1: is because everybody's competing, but they have the grant in mind,

381
00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,800
Speaker 1: they know what the top lot is. You can't be

382
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 1: more the nine hundred thousands in Sydney, you can't be

383
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 1: more than a million in Brisbane, and then the million

384
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:10,200
Speaker 1: ten thousand is certainly sort of wide open opportunity I think.

385
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 2: So I think, you know, for anyone looking to invest

386
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,320
Speaker 2: I think there's a great opportunity for them because they

387
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 2: know where these caps are and you know that you're

388
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:19,600
Speaker 2: probably not going to have any, or if you do

389
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,640
Speaker 2: have any, it's going to be very little competition from

390
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,000
Speaker 2: first time buyers. So it's kind of this forgotten pocket

391
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,639
Speaker 2: in the market. So that's where the investor opportunity is.

392
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 2: And obviously the other opportunity for investors is governments have

393
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,680
Speaker 2: now got a lot more skin in the game as well, so.

394
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,359
Speaker 1: You think coming back that keep coming back with a

395
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 1: larger space of incentives as you suggest, all exactly. Yeah,

396
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 1: very good, really interesting insights there from Cameron. Thank you Cameron. Okay,

397
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:48,879
Speaker 1: we're going to stick with us for some questions. I

398
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 1: have some very good curated property questions from our ever vigilant,

399
00:20:54,960 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 1: highly intelligent audience back in the moment. Hello, welcome back

400
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 1: to the Australian's Money Puzzled podcast James Kirby with Cameron

401
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,640
Speaker 1: Kusher of Kusher Consulting. You probably know Cameron, You've known

402
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,200
Speaker 1: that he's been associated with the both RIA and Chre

403
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 1: logic over the years. Than he is now an independent

404
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:22,119
Speaker 1: consultant in this space. Brest asks, I recently purchased one

405
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 1: hundred acre rural land property outside of Perth. The price

406
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:30,200
Speaker 1: was comparable to bind five acres elsewhere. Seemed like a

407
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 1: great opportunity. However, he now realizes a few things and

408
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 1: he lists them out worth hearing. Number one, insurance is

409
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,719
Speaker 1: classified as rural is more expensive. Two, building costs are

410
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 1: cons significantly higher in rural areas. Three, there are ongoing

411
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,359
Speaker 1: requirements in terms of maintenance of course over a larger space.

412
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 1: And perhaps most surprisingly, banks seem hesitant to lend on

413
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 1: land of this size. Interesting, he said he'd like to

414
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 1: hear what we have to see about these issues, except

415
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 1: I would just preface whatever coment says that. I'm sure Brett,

416
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 1: you were quite aware that ruralaland was actually rural farmland

417
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 1: has been a hot property, hasn't it. It's been the

418
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 1: best performing over quite a few years until very recently.

419
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 1: Is that right? Comment?

420
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, it has. It's been incredibly well performing. But you know,

421
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 2: as Renton's kind of highlighted here, there's certainly some risks

422
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 2: by that property. Your insurance costs are higher, obviously, your

423
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 2: maintenance costs are a lot a lot greater. The build

424
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 2: costs probably depending on how close this property actually is

425
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 2: to Perth, it shouldn't be significantly higher. But you know,

426
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 2: he said it's rural and near Perth. I don't know.

427
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 2: Obviously w A is big. The idea of near to

428
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 2: Perth might be different.

429
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 1: They might be different than someone else's, Yes.

430
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 2: But I mean wa in general, you know there's an

431
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 2: undersupplied people building houses. We've seen really rapid escalation and

432
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 2: construction costs over recent years.

433
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 1: I imagine that's something that probably a general issue that

434
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 1: in genuinely rural areas, obviously the supply skills would be

435
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 1: less and more of an issue to get people. Quite simply,

436
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 1: there's always been the case. This is never investment advice

437
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 1: across information only. All right, thank you Brett, and best

438
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 1: of luck with that. I think it was very useful.

439
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 1: Thank you for writing in and telling the audience our

440
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: listeners your experience. Paul are grants for houses and he

441
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 1: also adds house batteries and electric vehicles. These grants are

442
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,400
Speaker 1: there always just for people who are working? I think

443
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 1: broadly the answer is yes on that one.

444
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, as far as I'm aware, it's mainly for working people,

445
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 2: not for people in retirement phase.

446
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yes, that is the nature that the logic

447
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: I supposed behind most of these grants is to assist

448
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: certain people and certain demographics at certain times of their lives.

449
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: So it's not so much that it's exclusionary, but it

450
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 1: is effectively exclusionary at the end of the day. Okay,

451
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: thank you, Paul Carl with the ccarlital gains tax a

452
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: key issue for all property investors, and we mentioned on

453
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 1: the show that some analysts believe that capital gains could

454
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,719
Speaker 1: be in the sights of the Treasury in this forthcoming

455
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,199
Speaker 1: tax review, that it would be perhaps one of the

456
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: easier moves on the sector compared to other things like

457
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: negative gearing or stamp duty, and the political sort of

458
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 1: politically expedient one is often the one to hang on

459
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 1: to folks. But we'll see. Carlas, can you have a

460
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: capital gainst tax with no taxable income if you don't

461
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: have a taxable income do you still pay capital gains? Well,

462
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 1: if you have a capital gain, you pay capital gainst

463
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 1: tax and it is autonomous to anything else in your life.

464
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: But that's basically it isn't it.

465
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 2: I don't know of any other loopholes. I think, you know,

466
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 2: if you're making a capital gain, the government wants a

467
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 2: little bit of that capital gain.

468
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 1: Whether I think you make a capital gain and you're alive,

469
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: then you are, you are up for capital gains tax

470
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: and you're or nothing else really matters. It's the best

471
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: of my knowledge. If anyone can dispute that, let's here

472
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: it all right, terrific. Hey, and thank you very much

473
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: Cameron Kusher of Kusher Consulting to be on the show

474
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: this morning. Thanks for having me, James lovely to talk

475
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 1: to you. Okay, folks, we will, as I say, on Thursday,

476
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: we're going to have a look at well, very lively markets.

477
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: Actually they're not very lively markets. That's the irony. Very

478
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 1: very lively news, global news around markets that are oddly

479
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 1: complacent and relatively now volatility considering what's happening that we

480
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 1: will cover and also we will cover crypto. And on

481
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: the last show we had someone who's skeptical of crypto.

482
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: In the next show, I'm going to have Shane Oliver

483
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 1: from AMP and AMP was the first major financial institution

484
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: in Australia to actually make a investment in crypto, and

485
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 1: he will actually cover the other side of the argument,

486
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: just to be fair. Okay, talk to you soon. Remember

487
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: the email the money puzzle at the Australian dot com

488
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: dot a U, the s of the Wood, the

489
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 2: S