WEBVTT - If Trump loses, will Fox News admit it?

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<v Speaker 1>From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones.

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<v Speaker 2>This is seven am on the eve of the American election.

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<v Speaker 2>Poles say Harris and Trump are neck and neck. But

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<v Speaker 2>of course if you listen to Donald Trump, he says

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<v Speaker 2>that's not true.

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<v Speaker 1>Just a fake. Paul Hey, think of it right before

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<v Speaker 1>the election.

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<v Speaker 3>Then I'm three points down.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not down in Iowa. It's nothing new for the

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<v Speaker 1>former president.

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<v Speaker 2>But what is new is the way America's biggest cable

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<v Speaker 2>news network is handling it.

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<v Speaker 1>So there is former President Trump and Pennsylvania.

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<v Speaker 2>Fox News has started cutting away from rallies where Trump

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<v Speaker 2>tells lies.

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<v Speaker 1>But if Trump.

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<v Speaker 2>Loses the election and refuses to admit it, the real

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<v Speaker 2>test will be in what Fox does next. Their support

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<v Speaker 2>of the Big Lie, and the hundreds of millions of

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<v Speaker 2>dollars they had to pay to settle a defamation lawsuit

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<v Speaker 2>leaves them in a tricky spot. Tell MAGA supporters what

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<v Speaker 2>they want to hear, even if it isn't true, or

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<v Speaker 2>risk losing a huge audience.

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<v Speaker 1>Today.

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<v Speaker 2>Author of the successor and host of Rupert the Last Mogul,

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<v Speaker 2>Paddy Manning on Fox's role in the US election and

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<v Speaker 2>how the Murdock's secret court case could shape the future

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<v Speaker 2>of democracy. It's Wednesday, November sixth, so, Patty, it's election week.

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<v Speaker 1>We've arrived, terrifying.

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<v Speaker 2>We're about to find out who will win. So as

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<v Speaker 2>we get closer and closer to that moment, can we

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<v Speaker 2>talk about how much influence the Murdoch cable network Fox

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<v Speaker 2>has on this race? Yes?

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<v Speaker 4>Absolutely, I mean, as the leading cable news channel, which

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<v Speaker 4>it has been for almost twenty years, it's nothing new

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<v Speaker 4>that Fox News is setting the agenda through this US

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<v Speaker 4>presidential election. Fox News was alone amongst American cable networks

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<v Speaker 4>in really covering President Biden's increasing age fragility, questioning is competence.

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<v Speaker 5>The White House has a massive problem with Joe Biden.

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<v Speaker 3>It's an age problem, and it's bad, and it's now

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<v Speaker 3>obvious that Joe Biden is not fit to serve as

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<v Speaker 3>or president.

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<v Speaker 4>And then, of course Fox also would feel that the

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<v Speaker 4>southern border and illegal immigration is one of their top issues.

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<v Speaker 4>Fox News has been throughout the Biden presidency stoking that issue.

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<v Speaker 3>Wait until you hear this. The Director of Immigration and

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<v Speaker 3>Customs Enforcement confirms that more than thirteen thousand illegal immigrants

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<v Speaker 3>convicted of murder have been caught at the border and

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<v Speaker 3>then released into the United States.

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<v Speaker 4>So I think Fox News has had a big impact

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<v Speaker 4>on the support for Trump, but they have been a

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<v Speaker 4>little bit careful when it comes to the dangerous territory

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<v Speaker 4>of election denial, and that looks like a policy position

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<v Speaker 4>that they've taken.

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<v Speaker 5>And then from that moment, donn it was a whole

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<v Speaker 5>different ballgame in Texas and all over all.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, well, considering a monitor of this, just one slight

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<v Speaker 1>thing I just wanted to add because when you hear it,

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<v Speaker 1>and you heard it from Donald Trump about the twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty election, and it got millions and more vaulted. In act,

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<v Speaker 1>he did get millions and more vaults he still lost

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<v Speaker 1>that election.

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<v Speaker 2>That yeah, Well, let's talk about what happened in the

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<v Speaker 2>last election briefly in twenty twenty, because I think that

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<v Speaker 2>is relevant here. When Fox called Arizona for Joe Biden,

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<v Speaker 2>that turned into a watershed moment for the network, didn't it.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, When the decision desk called Arizona our swing state

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<v Speaker 4>for Biden, which made it almost impossible for Trump to win,

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<v Speaker 4>that was a absolutely critical moment in the history of

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<v Speaker 4>Fox News as well as in the history of US

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<v Speaker 4>politics because the ratings for Fox News plunged and Fox

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<v Speaker 4>News panicked. We know now that from the very top,

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<v Speaker 4>at the level of Rupert Murdoch and Lachlan Murdock themselves

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<v Speaker 4>and all the executive leadership at Fox News, they were

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<v Speaker 4>panicking about the hemorrhaging of viewers to the right. And

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<v Speaker 4>what we saw then was the beginning of the Big Live.

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<v Speaker 3>An intel source telling me that President Trump did in

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<v Speaker 3>fact win the election.

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<v Speaker 2>We're talking about the alteration and changes and millions of votes,

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<v Speaker 2>some being dumped that were for President Trump, some being

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<v Speaker 2>flipped that were for President Trump.

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<v Speaker 4>We don't know how many votes were stolen on Tuesday night.

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<v Speaker 4>We don't know anything about the software that many see

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<v Speaker 4>was rigged.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't know.

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<v Speaker 4>And that was a baseless conspiracy theory. And we saw

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<v Speaker 4>that culminate, of course in the insurrection where Trump's supporters

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<v Speaker 4>stormed the Capitol, And that was the moment when Lachlan

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<v Speaker 4>proved himself as Rupert's successor. Because Fox News did succeed

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<v Speaker 4>in winning back the MAGA audience, the big Lie. It

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<v Speaker 4>did work, but it also led to one of the

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<v Speaker 4>biggest defamation settlements ever in American history.

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<v Speaker 2>So what lessons do you think that the murdocks took

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<v Speaker 2>from having to pay that huge amount of money.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, since then, a lot has happened. Fox News avoided

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<v Speaker 4>Trump for a long time. They wouldn't put him on air,

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<v Speaker 4>and then when they did put him on air, they

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<v Speaker 4>would not carry him live to make sure that they

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<v Speaker 4>had a chance to edit out any damaging or dangerous

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<v Speaker 4>election denial, for example, that he might spout.

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<v Speaker 5>The polls are just as corrupt as some of the

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<v Speaker 5>writers back there.

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<v Speaker 4>Just in the last twenty four hours, we've seen an

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<v Speaker 4>example where there's just been a pole that's come out

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<v Speaker 4>that Kamala Harris is ahead in Iowa, and he started

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<v Speaker 4>at a rally dissing that pole.

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<v Speaker 5>I got a pole him ten points up in Iowa.

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<v Speaker 5>So my enemies just pushed out upon.

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<v Speaker 4>Him, free down and at that point they cut away

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<v Speaker 4>from his comments. And they've done that a few times

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<v Speaker 4>this year. So they are clearly watching like hawks for

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<v Speaker 4>those moments where Trump is straying into He's lying right.

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<v Speaker 2>So Fox is being more careful than it has been

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<v Speaker 2>in the past.

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<v Speaker 1>How is Trump handling that?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, Democrats in this cycle, rather than seeing Fox News

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<v Speaker 4>purely as the enemy, have realized that they need to

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<v Speaker 4>be there. And so Trump is constantly taking shots at

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<v Speaker 4>Fox News on his Truth social platform, For example, with

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<v Speaker 4>the interview that Brett Bair did with KRMLA Harris.

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<v Speaker 1>You're not Joe Biden, You're not Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 5>But nothing comes to mind that you would do differently.

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<v Speaker 5>Let me be very clear, my presidency will not be

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<v Speaker 5>a continuation of Joe Biden's presidency.

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<v Speaker 4>Trump was complaining that Democrats appearing on Fox News were

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<v Speaker 4>having quote a negative effect on the election, and he

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<v Speaker 4>has complained about the Harris campaign running ads on Fox News.

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<v Speaker 5>For nineteen days. I don't think we should do that anymore.

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<v Speaker 5>I think you shouldn't plan their goative ads because by

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<v Speaker 5>time on Fox you know, by the time you do it,

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<v Speaker 5>you said what are you doing?

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<v Speaker 4>And met actually personally with Rupert Murdoch and told him,

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<v Speaker 4>don't put on negative commercials, don't put on there the

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<v Speaker 4>horrible people that come in.

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<v Speaker 5>There are horrible people that come and lie. I'm going

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<v Speaker 5>to say, Rupert, please do it this way right, and

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<v Speaker 5>then we're going to have a victory. Because they think

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<v Speaker 5>everyone wants to that.

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<v Speaker 4>He just doesn't want to see democrats on Fox News

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<v Speaker 4>at all. Now, whether you know, Rupert Murdock obviously prepared

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<v Speaker 4>to sit down with Trump. That doesn't mean that Trump will.

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<v Speaker 1>Get his way.

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<v Speaker 4>Nonetheless, he's getting lots of soft coverage, some of it

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<v Speaker 4>kind of cringe worthy. And last week he was on

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<v Speaker 4>Fox and Friends and I was asked by a viewer

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<v Speaker 4>what his favorite farm animal was.

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<v Speaker 1>What is it?

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<v Speaker 4>Cows?

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<v Speaker 5>I love cows, But if we go with Kamala, you

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<v Speaker 5>won't have any cows. And I don't want to ruin

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<v Speaker 5>this kid's day.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, inside Fox News, they would probably feel that

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<v Speaker 4>they're doing something right if they're getting criticized on the

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<v Speaker 4>left and right by Democrats and also, you know, by Trump.

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<v Speaker 4>But the real test will be how Fox News covers

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<v Speaker 4>Trump if he loses and refuses to accept.

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<v Speaker 2>Defeat after the break the family battle. That could determine

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<v Speaker 2>the future of Fox News.

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<v Speaker 3>They are fighting so hard to steal this damn thing.

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<v Speaker 5>Look at what's going on, Look at what's going on.

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<v Speaker 1>In your state.

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<v Speaker 5>Every day they're talking about extending hours and so what

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<v Speaker 5>whoever heard of this stuff?

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<v Speaker 1>Patty?

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<v Speaker 2>In recent days, we've been hearing Donald Trump and his

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<v Speaker 2>team laying the groundwork for another stolen election claim should

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<v Speaker 2>he lose So if that possibility does come to pass,

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<v Speaker 2>how do you think that Fox News will react this time? Well?

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<v Speaker 4>I think this is the biggest test for Lochlan Murdoch,

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<v Speaker 4>who is indisputably now in charge of the Murdoch media

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<v Speaker 4>empire since Rupert retired at the end of last year.

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<v Speaker 4>This is the first US presidential election in which Lochlan

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<v Speaker 4>Murdock has the ultimate say, and is Fox News does

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<v Speaker 4>again what it did in twenty twenty and allow baseless

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<v Speaker 4>claims of a stolen election to go to air and

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<v Speaker 4>to gain traction within the MAGA audience. I think Fox

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<v Speaker 4>News's position in the coverage of the aftermath of this

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<v Speaker 4>election will be absolutely critical to the acceptance of the

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<v Speaker 4>election result on the right. And I think that is

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<v Speaker 4>the test for Lochlan Murdock this time around. Are we

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<v Speaker 4>going to see a repeat of twenty twenty in twenty

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<v Speaker 4>twenty four?

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<v Speaker 2>And there are many tests for Lachlan Murdock lining up.

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<v Speaker 2>There is, of course, a court case in Nevada happening

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<v Speaker 2>right now. Can you tell me about that?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, and I think they're connected Ruby. So since July

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<v Speaker 4>we've known since the New York Times broke this incredible

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<v Speaker 4>story that the Murdoch family themselves are at war in

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<v Speaker 4>court over an attempt by Rupert and Lachlan Murdock to

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<v Speaker 4>amend the terms of the Murdoch family Trust.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, in the real life succession battle playing out a

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<v Speaker 3>Nevada court room, Rupert Murdoch is fighting to change his

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<v Speaker 3>family trust so that his eldest son gets controlled of

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<v Speaker 3>his media empire.

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<v Speaker 1>The ninety three year old tycoon wanting to protect the

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<v Speaker 1>conservative leanings of his media portfolio, which includes Fox News,

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<v Speaker 1>The Wall Street Journal, and New York Post. The family

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<v Speaker 1>feud pitts Murdoch and his eldest son Lachlan against.

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<v Speaker 3>The three other siblings, James, Elizabeth, and Prudence, his eldest

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<v Speaker 3>child joining.

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<v Speaker 4>Me now is what we found out was Rupert had

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<v Speaker 4>gone to a Nevada court to amend the family trust

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<v Speaker 4>so that when he died, Lachlan would get unassailable control

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<v Speaker 4>of the trust and could not be outvoted by his siblings.

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<v Speaker 5>Murdoch, are you confident of victory?

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<v Speaker 4>We saw in September an extraordinary saying of something out

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<v Speaker 4>of succession, all sides of the Murdoch family arriving in

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<v Speaker 4>their big black cars trundling up to give evidence in

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<v Speaker 4>these sealed proceedings, and we're waiting for news as to

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<v Speaker 4>how that court case will result. And you know, either way,

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<v Speaker 4>the likelihood is, given the caliber of the lawyers on

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<v Speaker 4>both sides here, that you will see an appeal. So

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<v Speaker 4>this could drag on for months, right.

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<v Speaker 2>So it seems like, depending on what happens with this case,

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<v Speaker 2>on who comes out victorious, this could be the last

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<v Speaker 2>election that Fox will wield this level of influence within

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<v Speaker 2>the American ride.

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<v Speaker 4>That's an interesting question. So it depends on your interpretation

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<v Speaker 4>of what the siblings are trying to achieve here. So

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<v Speaker 4>James Murdoch has been outspoken. He and his wife Catherine

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<v Speaker 4>have been prominent donors to the Democrats that have been

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<v Speaker 4>critical of the Murdock media or over the election denial,

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<v Speaker 4>over coverage of race issues, and conspiracy theories like the

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<v Speaker 4>Great Replacement theory. But they also have an argument that

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<v Speaker 4>bears on the business of Fox News itself, which is

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<v Speaker 4>that if you could preserve the center right politics but

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<v Speaker 4>just dial down the crazy, you might be able to

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<v Speaker 4>avoid expensive defamation payoffs. And it might be that that

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<v Speaker 4>is a better way to run Fox News longer term.

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<v Speaker 4>Of course, the proceedings are sealed, so it's all speculation,

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<v Speaker 4>but I think that will be part of the argument

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<v Speaker 4>that James and the siblings are making inside that Nevada

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<v Speaker 4>court room. Rupert's argument is that Lachlan is the best

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<v Speaker 4>steward of the Murdoch media assets. They argue it would

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<v Speaker 4>be economic suicide to try and tack Fox News back

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<v Speaker 4>towards the middle. So if Fox News was undermining the

0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.800
<v Speaker 4>election result, I don't think that would be a great

0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:57.199
<v Speaker 4>look for their legal team inside that Nevada court room.

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<v Speaker 4>And I think that Fox will not want to have

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<v Speaker 4>a repeat of twenty twenty. They don't want to be

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<v Speaker 4>writing any more defamation checks. They don't want any more

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<v Speaker 4>litigation coming out of this election. But also I think

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<v Speaker 4>it must be in the back of Lachlan Murdock's mind

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<v Speaker 4>how irresponsible coverage of the twenty twenty four election might

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<v Speaker 4>sound inside the Nevada court room, in that court case

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<v Speaker 4>that he is now embroiled in with his siblings.

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<v Speaker 2>Patty, thank you so much for your time today.

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<v Speaker 4>Thank you. Ruby.

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<v Speaker 2>To hear more about that court case, you can listen

0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:36.680
<v Speaker 2>to Paddy Manning's three part podcast series murdocks endgame, which

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<v Speaker 2>Aird on ABC's background briefing. Also in the news today,

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<v Speaker 2>a legal challenge against Elon Musk's million dollar voter giveaway

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<v Speaker 2>has failed in a court in Pennsylvania, with a judge

0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:00.920
<v Speaker 2>ruling the election stunt can continue. Pledged to hand out

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<v Speaker 2>one million dollars daily to registered swing state voters who

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<v Speaker 2>signed his petition, with the pack already giving away seventeen

0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:11.880
<v Speaker 2>million dollars us Musk's lawyer argued that the giveaway was

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<v Speaker 2>not an illegal lottery, revealing that the winners were not

0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:19.240
<v Speaker 2>chosen by chance, as Musk had previously implied, but instead

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<v Speaker 2>pre selected based on who would make an effective spokesperson

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<v Speaker 2>for the campaign. And Opposition leader Peter Dutton has warned

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<v Speaker 2>the Coalition party room against speaking out on abortion laws,

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<v Speaker 2>following comments made by National Senator To Center and avadeber

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<v Speaker 2>Price in a media interview condemning late term abortions. In

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<v Speaker 2>a private party room address leaked to the media, Dutton

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<v Speaker 2>confirmed that there will be no changes to their policies if.

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<v Speaker 1>They win government.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Ruby Jones, thanks for listening, and seven AM will

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<v Speaker 2>be back tomorrow with coverage of the US election results.

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<v Speaker 5>A low