Speaker 1: From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones.
Speaker 2: This is seven am on the eve of the American election.
Speaker 2: Poles say Harris and Trump are neck and neck. But
Speaker 2: of course if you listen to Donald Trump, he says
Speaker 2: that's not true.
Speaker 1: Just a fake. Paul Hey, think of it right before
Speaker 1: the election.
Speaker 3: Then I'm three points down.
Speaker 1: I'm not down in Iowa. It's nothing new for the
Speaker 1: former president.
Speaker 2: But what is new is the way America's biggest cable
Speaker 2: news network is handling it.
Speaker 1: So there is former President Trump and Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2: Fox News has started cutting away from rallies where Trump
Speaker 2: tells lies.
Speaker 1: But if Trump.
Speaker 2: Loses the election and refuses to admit it, the real
Speaker 2: test will be in what Fox does next. Their support
Speaker 2: of the Big Lie, and the hundreds of millions of
Speaker 2: dollars they had to pay to settle a defamation lawsuit
Speaker 2: leaves them in a tricky spot. Tell MAGA supporters what
Speaker 2: they want to hear, even if it isn't true, or
Speaker 2: risk losing a huge audience.
Speaker 1: Today.
Speaker 2: Author of the successor and host of Rupert the Last Mogul,
Speaker 2: Paddy Manning on Fox's role in the US election and
Speaker 2: how the Murdock's secret court case could shape the future
Speaker 2: of democracy. It's Wednesday, November sixth, so, Patty, it's election week.
Speaker 1: We've arrived, terrifying.
Speaker 2: We're about to find out who will win. So as
Speaker 2: we get closer and closer to that moment, can we
Speaker 2: talk about how much influence the Murdoch cable network Fox
Speaker 2: has on this race? Yes?
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I mean, as the leading cable news channel, which
Speaker 4: it has been for almost twenty years, it's nothing new
Speaker 4: that Fox News is setting the agenda through this US
Speaker 4: presidential election. Fox News was alone amongst American cable networks
Speaker 4: in really covering President Biden's increasing age fragility, questioning is competence.
Speaker 5: The White House has a massive problem with Joe Biden.
Speaker 3: It's an age problem, and it's bad, and it's now
Speaker 3: obvious that Joe Biden is not fit to serve as
Speaker 3: or president.
Speaker 4: And then, of course Fox also would feel that the
Speaker 4: southern border and illegal immigration is one of their top issues.
Speaker 4: Fox News has been throughout the Biden presidency stoking that issue.
Speaker 3: Wait until you hear this. The Director of Immigration and
Speaker 3: Customs Enforcement confirms that more than thirteen thousand illegal immigrants
Speaker 3: convicted of murder have been caught at the border and
Speaker 3: then released into the United States.
Speaker 4: So I think Fox News has had a big impact
Speaker 4: on the support for Trump, but they have been a
Speaker 4: little bit careful when it comes to the dangerous territory
Speaker 4: of election denial, and that looks like a policy position
Speaker 4: that they've taken.
Speaker 5: And then from that moment, donn it was a whole
Speaker 5: different ballgame in Texas and all over all.
Speaker 1: Right, well, considering a monitor of this, just one slight
Speaker 1: thing I just wanted to add because when you hear it,
Speaker 1: and you heard it from Donald Trump about the twenty
Speaker 1: twenty election, and it got millions and more vaulted. In act,
Speaker 1: he did get millions and more vaults he still lost
Speaker 1: that election.
Speaker 2: That yeah, Well, let's talk about what happened in the
Speaker 2: last election briefly in twenty twenty, because I think that
Speaker 2: is relevant here. When Fox called Arizona for Joe Biden,
Speaker 2: that turned into a watershed moment for the network, didn't it.
Speaker 4: Yes, When the decision desk called Arizona our swing state
Speaker 4: for Biden, which made it almost impossible for Trump to win,
Speaker 4: that was a absolutely critical moment in the history of
Speaker 4: Fox News as well as in the history of US
Speaker 4: politics because the ratings for Fox News plunged and Fox
Speaker 4: News panicked. We know now that from the very top,
Speaker 4: at the level of Rupert Murdoch and Lachlan Murdock themselves
Speaker 4: and all the executive leadership at Fox News, they were
Speaker 4: panicking about the hemorrhaging of viewers to the right. And
Speaker 4: what we saw then was the beginning of the Big Live.
Speaker 3: An intel source telling me that President Trump did in
Speaker 3: fact win the election.
Speaker 2: We're talking about the alteration and changes and millions of votes,
Speaker 2: some being dumped that were for President Trump, some being
Speaker 2: flipped that were for President Trump.
Speaker 4: We don't know how many votes were stolen on Tuesday night.
Speaker 4: We don't know anything about the software that many see
Speaker 4: was rigged.
Speaker 1: We don't know.
Speaker 4: And that was a baseless conspiracy theory. And we saw
Speaker 4: that culminate, of course in the insurrection where Trump's supporters
Speaker 4: stormed the Capitol, And that was the moment when Lachlan
Speaker 4: proved himself as Rupert's successor. Because Fox News did succeed
Speaker 4: in winning back the MAGA audience, the big Lie. It
Speaker 4: did work, but it also led to one of the
Speaker 4: biggest defamation settlements ever in American history.
Speaker 2: So what lessons do you think that the murdocks took
Speaker 2: from having to pay that huge amount of money.
Speaker 4: Well, since then, a lot has happened. Fox News avoided
Speaker 4: Trump for a long time. They wouldn't put him on air,
Speaker 4: and then when they did put him on air, they
Speaker 4: would not carry him live to make sure that they
Speaker 4: had a chance to edit out any damaging or dangerous
Speaker 4: election denial, for example, that he might spout.
Speaker 5: The polls are just as corrupt as some of the
Speaker 5: writers back there.
Speaker 4: Just in the last twenty four hours, we've seen an
Speaker 4: example where there's just been a pole that's come out
Speaker 4: that Kamala Harris is ahead in Iowa, and he started
Speaker 4: at a rally dissing that pole.
Speaker 5: I got a pole him ten points up in Iowa.
Speaker 5: So my enemies just pushed out upon.
Speaker 4: Him, free down and at that point they cut away
Speaker 4: from his comments. And they've done that a few times
Speaker 4: this year. So they are clearly watching like hawks for
Speaker 4: those moments where Trump is straying into He's lying right.
Speaker 2: So Fox is being more careful than it has been
Speaker 2: in the past.
Speaker 1: How is Trump handling that?
Speaker 4: Well, Democrats in this cycle, rather than seeing Fox News
Speaker 4: purely as the enemy, have realized that they need to
Speaker 4: be there. And so Trump is constantly taking shots at
Speaker 4: Fox News on his Truth social platform, For example, with
Speaker 4: the interview that Brett Bair did with KRMLA Harris.
Speaker 1: You're not Joe Biden, You're not Donald Trump.
Speaker 5: But nothing comes to mind that you would do differently.
Speaker 5: Let me be very clear, my presidency will not be
Speaker 5: a continuation of Joe Biden's presidency.
Speaker 4: Trump was complaining that Democrats appearing on Fox News were
Speaker 4: having quote a negative effect on the election, and he
Speaker 4: has complained about the Harris campaign running ads on Fox News.
Speaker 5: For nineteen days. I don't think we should do that anymore.
Speaker 5: I think you shouldn't plan their goative ads because by
Speaker 5: time on Fox you know, by the time you do it,
Speaker 5: you said what are you doing?
Speaker 4: And met actually personally with Rupert Murdoch and told him,
Speaker 4: don't put on negative commercials, don't put on there the
Speaker 4: horrible people that come in.
Speaker 5: There are horrible people that come and lie. I'm going
Speaker 5: to say, Rupert, please do it this way right, and
Speaker 5: then we're going to have a victory. Because they think
Speaker 5: everyone wants to that.
Speaker 4: He just doesn't want to see democrats on Fox News
Speaker 4: at all. Now, whether you know, Rupert Murdock obviously prepared
Speaker 4: to sit down with Trump. That doesn't mean that Trump will.
Speaker 1: Get his way.
Speaker 4: Nonetheless, he's getting lots of soft coverage, some of it
Speaker 4: kind of cringe worthy. And last week he was on
Speaker 4: Fox and Friends and I was asked by a viewer
Speaker 4: what his favorite farm animal was.
Speaker 1: What is it?
Speaker 4: Cows?
Speaker 5: I love cows, But if we go with Kamala, you
Speaker 5: won't have any cows. And I don't want to ruin
Speaker 5: this kid's day.
Speaker 4: You know, inside Fox News, they would probably feel that
Speaker 4: they're doing something right if they're getting criticized on the
Speaker 4: left and right by Democrats and also, you know, by Trump.
Speaker 4: But the real test will be how Fox News covers
Speaker 4: Trump if he loses and refuses to accept.
Speaker 2: Defeat after the break the family battle. That could determine
Speaker 2: the future of Fox News.
Speaker 3: They are fighting so hard to steal this damn thing.
Speaker 5: Look at what's going on, Look at what's going on.
Speaker 1: In your state.
Speaker 5: Every day they're talking about extending hours and so what
Speaker 5: whoever heard of this stuff?
Speaker 1: Patty?
Speaker 2: In recent days, we've been hearing Donald Trump and his
Speaker 2: team laying the groundwork for another stolen election claim should
Speaker 2: he lose So if that possibility does come to pass,
Speaker 2: how do you think that Fox News will react this time? Well?
Speaker 4: I think this is the biggest test for Lochlan Murdoch,
Speaker 4: who is indisputably now in charge of the Murdoch media
Speaker 4: empire since Rupert retired at the end of last year.
Speaker 4: This is the first US presidential election in which Lochlan
Speaker 4: Murdock has the ultimate say, and is Fox News does
Speaker 4: again what it did in twenty twenty and allow baseless
Speaker 4: claims of a stolen election to go to air and
Speaker 4: to gain traction within the MAGA audience. I think Fox
Speaker 4: News's position in the coverage of the aftermath of this
Speaker 4: election will be absolutely critical to the acceptance of the
Speaker 4: election result on the right. And I think that is
Speaker 4: the test for Lochlan Murdock this time around. Are we
Speaker 4: going to see a repeat of twenty twenty in twenty
Speaker 4: twenty four?
Speaker 2: And there are many tests for Lachlan Murdock lining up.
Speaker 2: There is, of course, a court case in Nevada happening
Speaker 2: right now. Can you tell me about that?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 4: Well, and I think they're connected Ruby. So since July
Speaker 4: we've known since the New York Times broke this incredible
Speaker 4: story that the Murdoch family themselves are at war in
Speaker 4: court over an attempt by Rupert and Lachlan Murdock to
Speaker 4: amend the terms of the Murdoch family Trust.
Speaker 3: Now, in the real life succession battle playing out a
Speaker 3: Nevada court room, Rupert Murdoch is fighting to change his
Speaker 3: family trust so that his eldest son gets controlled of
Speaker 3: his media empire.
Speaker 1: The ninety three year old tycoon wanting to protect the
Speaker 1: conservative leanings of his media portfolio, which includes Fox News,
Speaker 1: The Wall Street Journal, and New York Post. The family
Speaker 1: feud pitts Murdoch and his eldest son Lachlan against.
Speaker 3: The three other siblings, James, Elizabeth, and Prudence, his eldest
Speaker 3: child joining.
Speaker 4: Me now is what we found out was Rupert had
Speaker 4: gone to a Nevada court to amend the family trust
Speaker 4: so that when he died, Lachlan would get unassailable control
Speaker 4: of the trust and could not be outvoted by his siblings.
Speaker 5: Murdoch, are you confident of victory?
Speaker 4: We saw in September an extraordinary saying of something out
Speaker 4: of succession, all sides of the Murdoch family arriving in
Speaker 4: their big black cars trundling up to give evidence in
Speaker 4: these sealed proceedings, and we're waiting for news as to
Speaker 4: how that court case will result. And you know, either way,
Speaker 4: the likelihood is, given the caliber of the lawyers on
Speaker 4: both sides here, that you will see an appeal. So
Speaker 4: this could drag on for months, right.
Speaker 2: So it seems like, depending on what happens with this case,
Speaker 2: on who comes out victorious, this could be the last
Speaker 2: election that Fox will wield this level of influence within
Speaker 2: the American ride.
Speaker 4: That's an interesting question. So it depends on your interpretation
Speaker 4: of what the siblings are trying to achieve here. So
Speaker 4: James Murdoch has been outspoken. He and his wife Catherine
Speaker 4: have been prominent donors to the Democrats that have been
Speaker 4: critical of the Murdock media or over the election denial,
Speaker 4: over coverage of race issues, and conspiracy theories like the
Speaker 4: Great Replacement theory. But they also have an argument that
Speaker 4: bears on the business of Fox News itself, which is
Speaker 4: that if you could preserve the center right politics but
Speaker 4: just dial down the crazy, you might be able to
Speaker 4: avoid expensive defamation payoffs. And it might be that that
Speaker 4: is a better way to run Fox News longer term.
Speaker 4: Of course, the proceedings are sealed, so it's all speculation,
Speaker 4: but I think that will be part of the argument
Speaker 4: that James and the siblings are making inside that Nevada
Speaker 4: court room. Rupert's argument is that Lachlan is the best
Speaker 4: steward of the Murdoch media assets. They argue it would
Speaker 4: be economic suicide to try and tack Fox News back
Speaker 4: towards the middle. So if Fox News was undermining the
Speaker 4: election result, I don't think that would be a great
Speaker 4: look for their legal team inside that Nevada court room.
Speaker 4: And I think that Fox will not want to have
Speaker 4: a repeat of twenty twenty. They don't want to be
Speaker 4: writing any more defamation checks. They don't want any more
Speaker 4: litigation coming out of this election. But also I think
Speaker 4: it must be in the back of Lachlan Murdock's mind
Speaker 4: how irresponsible coverage of the twenty twenty four election might
Speaker 4: sound inside the Nevada court room, in that court case
Speaker 4: that he is now embroiled in with his siblings.
Speaker 2: Patty, thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker 4: Thank you. Ruby.
Speaker 2: To hear more about that court case, you can listen
Speaker 2: to Paddy Manning's three part podcast series murdocks endgame, which
Speaker 2: Aird on ABC's background briefing. Also in the news today,
Speaker 2: a legal challenge against Elon Musk's million dollar voter giveaway
Speaker 2: has failed in a court in Pennsylvania, with a judge
Speaker 2: ruling the election stunt can continue. Pledged to hand out
Speaker 2: one million dollars daily to registered swing state voters who
Speaker 2: signed his petition, with the pack already giving away seventeen
Speaker 2: million dollars us Musk's lawyer argued that the giveaway was
Speaker 2: not an illegal lottery, revealing that the winners were not
Speaker 2: chosen by chance, as Musk had previously implied, but instead
Speaker 2: pre selected based on who would make an effective spokesperson
Speaker 2: for the campaign. And Opposition leader Peter Dutton has warned
Speaker 2: the Coalition party room against speaking out on abortion laws,
Speaker 2: following comments made by National Senator To Center and avadeber
Speaker 2: Price in a media interview condemning late term abortions. In
Speaker 2: a private party room address leaked to the media, Dutton
Speaker 2: confirmed that there will be no changes to their policies if.
Speaker 1: They win government.
Speaker 2: I'm Ruby Jones, thanks for listening, and seven AM will
Speaker 2: be back tomorrow with coverage of the US election results.
Speaker 5: A low