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Speaker 1: So Greenberg. Welcome to straight Talk.

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Speaker 2: Mark Forrest, thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: As a feeling of being on the other side of

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Speaker 1: the mic.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I love it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. Really, I love it.

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Speaker 3: But you don't get it like a bit weird and

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Speaker 3: you want to start asking questions.

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Speaker 4: Yes, like I do, because that's obviously naturally what I do.

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Speaker 4: But at the same time, it is nice to be

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Speaker 4: able to talk and give more of my opinions as well.

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Speaker 4: I love telling my story too, So you know this

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Speaker 4: feels very normal to me, with the microphone and all

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Speaker 4: of the setup.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's probably it's funny, I get quite. I

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Speaker 3: don't feel comfortable on the other side. Really, yeah, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: I don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't come.

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Speaker 1: I would never have thought.

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Speaker 3: I don't really like talking about what I've done and

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Speaker 3: stuff like that just doesn't interest me. I'm more interested

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Speaker 3: in having a guest so I can find out what

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Speaker 3: their deal is. Yes, I'm not interested in in myself.

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Speaker 3: It's funny, I take I have a view on conversation,

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Speaker 3: which is what podcasts are.

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Speaker 1: But I have a view on conversation.

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Speaker 3: I think conversation generally, especially if you're speaking to an audience,

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Speaker 3: a live audience is it's the person's doing the talking

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Speaker 3: is actually having a conversation with themselves. So when I'm

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Speaker 3: talking to you now, I'm actually having a conversation with

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Speaker 3: myself about what I want to know about you about Sarah. Yes,

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Speaker 3: if I'm doing the talking, you're asking me a question.

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Speaker 3: I mean having a conversation about myself. And I find

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Speaker 3: that myself really boring because I know about it. I'm

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Speaker 3: not learning anything, I'm not finding anything out about myself,

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Speaker 3: but I find it really boring. So for me, conversations

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Speaker 3: are not two way. I find all conversations that I

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Speaker 3: think in theory. My theory is that all conversations are

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Speaker 3: one way, but they somehow blend. So I'm talking about

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Speaker 3: what I'm talking about is right now, I'm talking about

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Speaker 3: my own thoughts, and you're talking about what your thoughts are.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes the audience are listening to them, they're trying to

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Speaker 3: put them together all the time. The audience is trying

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Speaker 3: to put it together for us all the time. But

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Speaker 3: really everything we talk about is what's going on in

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Speaker 3: my own head.

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Speaker 2: That's so interesting.

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Speaker 4: I do think a really good interviewer will ask you

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Speaker 4: questions that make you think, and so then you might

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Speaker 4: go back in your mind and either maybe too many

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Speaker 4: years ago or to something that you've never contemplated before.

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Speaker 4: And then you discuss that and you feel really good

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Speaker 4: about it, hopefully, and then it kind of is something.

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Speaker 1: New, you realize something about yourself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I got interviewer though.

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Speaker 3: I think the reason why I say though, is because

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Speaker 3: people want to talk to me about what happened twenty

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Speaker 3: years ago, like back in the Wizard days and all

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Speaker 3: sort of stuff. Yeah, and I've told that story so

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Speaker 3: many times that I just find it incredibly boring just

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Speaker 3: for me, that's all. It's just a personal thing. I'm

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Speaker 3: probably being selfish, but personal thing. And I'm so selfish though,

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Speaker 3: I actually want to learn about everybody else. I want

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Speaker 3: to know what their deal is. And speaking of that,

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Speaker 3: So you were the executive producer of The Hamish Andy Show.

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Speaker 3: I was that's four years biggest podcast in the country and.

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Speaker 2: Has been since it started and I start with it.

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Speaker 1: So what year was that?

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Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness, that's a good question.

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Speaker 4: It was six and a half years ago, six and

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Speaker 4: a half seven, about seven years ago now that I

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Speaker 4: moved into podcasting, and when I moved into podcasting. They

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Speaker 4: said to me when they were trying to get me

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Speaker 4: to move over to that department. They said, look, no

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Speaker 4: one knows this but Haimi, she and you're about to

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Speaker 4: finish up on radio, and we would love you to

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Speaker 4: be their executive producer. And you know, if anyone gets

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Speaker 4: offered that job, it's like the best thing in the world.

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Speaker 4: So I'm I as a producer, couldn't believe that I

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Speaker 4: was getting offered this role and took it in the second.

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Speaker 4: But the funniest bit was seven years ago, podcasting wasn't

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Speaker 4: that big, and I kind of was like podcasting and.

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Speaker 2: I'd only listened to Cereal.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if you remember that podcast, but it

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Speaker 4: was like one of the only like decent ones back

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Speaker 4: in the day. And then I moved over to podcasting.

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Speaker 4: I started with The Boys, which you know.

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Speaker 1: This podcast one.

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Speaker 2: This is podcast one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you were there. I was the first.

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Speaker 3: They got me to change my podcast name to The

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Speaker 3: Mentor so it used to be called the Mark Borers Show.

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Speaker 3: So I got a call from what's the guy's name

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Speaker 3: is otters He and he said, we'd like to do

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Speaker 3: your podcast and this is the business model blah, blah blah. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and in those days prior to that, we used to

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Speaker 3: do our podcast up here in King's Cross on top

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Speaker 3: of the underneath the Co Cola sign, and we did

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Speaker 3: all ourselves. But and he offered me a good deal,

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Speaker 3: so I thought I'd do it, and that was to

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Speaker 3: launch podcast one, which is a platform which is like

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Speaker 3: has become listener.

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Speaker 1: It's a different platform, but it has become listener.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and yeah, and Haimer Sandy were we all start

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Speaker 3: around at the same time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly correct.

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Speaker 1: Six seven years ago.

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Speaker 2: It was seven years ago.

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Speaker 4: And then six months, three months into me producing Hami Shenandy.

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Speaker 4: Because I'd had my own experiences of burnout and a

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Speaker 4: few other things, and I'd really gotten into personal development

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Speaker 4: work and the idea of mindset, I said to Todtter's

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Speaker 4: grant Todd Hill, who I had worked with for years, Hey,

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Speaker 4: I've got this idea for a podcast. And I told

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Speaker 4: him the idea and I put together a plan because

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Speaker 4: you know, I knew how to do all that, because

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Speaker 4: I had done so many years of producing. And he said,

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Speaker 4: you know, just give it a go, but you'll have

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Speaker 4: to produce it yourself. For the time being and I did.

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Speaker 4: And it's funny how things work. I'm not sure if

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Speaker 4: you would know this guy, but he's huge in the

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Speaker 4: personal development word world. The first person that I had

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Speaker 4: on my podcast, A Life of Greatness was Joe Despenser. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, ye, yeah, he's massive, So, like, what

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Speaker 4: a great get for the first person to have on

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Speaker 4: your podcast. You know, I don't know if you were

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Speaker 4: like this because you've had a lot of experiencing TV

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Speaker 4: and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: But I'll never forget. He was doing a show in Melbourne.

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Speaker 4: He'd come from the States, and I had gone down

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Speaker 4: with my audio producer and we had like twenty minutes

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Speaker 4: in the break for an interview.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I would never do a twenty minute interview now.

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Speaker 4: I was so nervous, you know, the first time, like

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Speaker 4: you do something like that. I was so nervous and

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Speaker 4: we did it so well and I still can't believe

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Speaker 4: that was like the first interview I ever did, when

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Speaker 4: he is like one of the biggest names in personal

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Speaker 4: development and the podcast took off from there.

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Speaker 3: It's just prior to that, though You're you said you

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Speaker 3: were an executive producer producer.

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Speaker 1: Were you producing radio show.

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Speaker 2: I was producing radio at for.

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Speaker 1: The Southern Cross Oostereo A grip.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so it was so this was an interesting thing.

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Speaker 4: I had worked for them for years, Fox, Triple M,

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Speaker 4: Southern Cross Ostereo. I had worked in corporate before and

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Speaker 4: then I always wanted to work in media and I

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Speaker 4: got the role when I was a decade No, I

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Speaker 4: think it was like fourteen years ago, and I started

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Speaker 4: doing activations on all these kind of things, and I

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Speaker 4: really wanted to do producing and I really wanted to

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Speaker 4: understand how that world worked.

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Speaker 1: Because we explained to audience, what is a producer?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, great quest. So a producer basically someone who puts

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Speaker 4: the show together. For example, for a podcast, it could

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Speaker 4: be getting the guests, editing the podcast before it then

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Speaker 4: goes to an audio editor doing a first edit on it.

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Speaker 4: It'd be everything from booking studios to organizing lighting to

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Speaker 4: making sure that everything runs efficiently. And it's kind of

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Speaker 4: like a lot of admin is required for that, but

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Speaker 4: a lot of personal skills are required for that. Because

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Speaker 4: you're dealing with talent majority of the time. You need

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Speaker 4: to be able to deal with any of the talents

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Speaker 4: requests or demands and make sure that they're in a

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Speaker 4: situation when they do either their radio show or the

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Speaker 4: podcast that they feel that they're taking care of right.

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Speaker 4: So it's actually quite high pressure, but you know, if

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Speaker 4: you're working with great people, it can be absolutely so

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Speaker 4: fun and vibrant.

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Speaker 2: And so this is what I wanted to do.

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Speaker 4: And so I was doing my day job of activations

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Speaker 4: and things at the radio show and I had said,

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Speaker 4: I really want to try out producing, and they're like,

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Speaker 4: all right, will you sit with the Hot Breakfast This

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Speaker 4: is back in the day with Eddie Maguire Lee Darcy

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Speaker 4: and they had like Jay Mueller as their EP.

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Speaker 2: Who for anyone that doesn't.

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Speaker 4: Know Jay, which is probably the majority of people listening,

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Speaker 4: he is like the best producer, one of the best

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Speaker 4: in the country. So I unpaid, woke up at like,

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Speaker 4: you know, four at thirty in the morning, sat with them,

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Speaker 4: watched some of the world.

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Speaker 2: Well Australia's best producers do their thing.

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Speaker 4: And then I would also unpaid stay later and then

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Speaker 4: sit with other producers at nighttime for the nighttime shows

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Speaker 4: and watch them. And I loved it. I absolutely loved it.

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Speaker 4: And I asked good questions, that's what they told me.

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Speaker 4: And after a while they Dave Cameron, who at the

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Speaker 4: time was I think the general manager of Osterio, said

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Speaker 4: we've got a producing role if you want to take it.

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Speaker 4: And I thought, okay, great and again and I was

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Speaker 4: working on weekends doing the weekend breakfast show. And so

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Speaker 4: I was working Monday to Friday and then Saturday doing

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Speaker 4: the show. But I loved it so much, and you know,

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Speaker 4: sometimes you have to put in the hard yards when

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Speaker 4: you're young to get to where you want to go.

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Speaker 2: And then we got the tap on the shoulder. I

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Speaker 2: was doing a show.

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Speaker 4: On the weekend that they wanted this show to be

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Speaker 4: the breakfast Show of Sydney, but it was going The

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Speaker 4: talent were in Melbourne and this was the first time

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Speaker 4: that they were going to broadcast to Sydney from Melbourne.

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Speaker 2: So the producers and a lot of the team were

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Speaker 2: in Sydney.

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Speaker 4: But then I was in Melbourne with the talent and

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Speaker 4: like the digital producer and you know, an assistant.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know if you know.

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Speaker 4: Much about breakfast radio, but it is grueling, absolutely grueling.

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Speaker 4: And at the time I had a two year old

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Speaker 4: and a four year old and I was waking up

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Speaker 4: at like three three thirty am five days a week,

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Speaker 4: and it was just it was hard, and it was

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Speaker 4: long hours and very hard with young kids. And it's

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Speaker 4: a kind of job where you never turn off. It's

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Speaker 4: not like if something big happens that you can just

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Speaker 4: miss it. You need to be on top of the news.

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Speaker 4: You need to be on top of what's happening in sport,

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Speaker 4: in entertainment. And it was just really full on, and

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Speaker 4: I got really sick and ended up just having this

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Speaker 4: moment where I was so burnt out and so unhappy.

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Speaker 4: And with all that came the fact that I'd never

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Speaker 4: done any inner work on myself. It was all about

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Speaker 4: trying to achieve these great things, the big producing role.

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Speaker 4: I was getting paid more money than I ever had

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Speaker 4: at the time, and it ended up in me getting

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Speaker 4: unbelievably unwell and just really like what they call a

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Speaker 4: dark knight of the soul, looking at my life and

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Speaker 4: kind of saying, how did it become so empty? You know,

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Speaker 4: on the outside it looked perfect, but inside everything I

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Speaker 4: felt was crumbling, my relationships. I was so tired the

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Speaker 4: whole time, And it was then that I decided that

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Speaker 4: I needed to do something with my life that would

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Speaker 4: be able to change the way that I thought and

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Speaker 4: the way that I lived.

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Speaker 3: How do you know if you've got burnout? Because people

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Speaker 3: say it all the time. Yeah, it's sort of overused

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Speaker 3: to some extent, yes, potentially.

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Speaker 1: How did you know?

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Speaker 3: And how does another person know if they actually are

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Speaker 3: suffering from burner because some people are suffering, they just

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Speaker 3: keep going.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And I felt like I was like that.

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Speaker 4: So my health was becoming not great, you know, which

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Speaker 4: ended up in what I mean, so I yeah, it

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Speaker 4: was started getting like a lot of colds and even

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Speaker 4: to just like look at myself, like my skin looked bad,

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Speaker 4: and you know, I've never had those kind of issues.

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Speaker 2: I felt like I had permanent jet lag.

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Speaker 4: And the worst bit was that when I would go

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Speaker 4: to sleep, I couldn't sleep because my mind was just

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Speaker 4: swirling with all the work and things that I had

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Speaker 4: to do. And so it was like one day to

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Speaker 4: the next to the next, I just felt so depleted,

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Speaker 4: and then it was this feeling of complete apathy where

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Speaker 4: I didn't care about anything anymore. And it's interesting when

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Speaker 4: you talk about emotions, they actually say that that emotion

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Speaker 4: is kind of worse than being angry or you know, sad,

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Speaker 4: because then it's an actual emotion that you have this

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Speaker 4: strong feeling towards. But apathy is like you stop caring, right,

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Speaker 4: You stop caring, you stop enjoying. Like I remember, everything

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Speaker 4: became hard, even my kids, who I loved dearly. It

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Speaker 4: became hard looking after them. Like nothing was fun, nothing

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Speaker 4: was exciting to me anymore. I was so tired, and

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Speaker 4: I was all I could think about was work twenty

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Speaker 4: four to seven and that moment where I got a

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Speaker 4: really bad case of the flu. This is the pre

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Speaker 4: COVID times, and I could barely walk to the count

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Speaker 4: I remember, as I said, in that moment, just thinking

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Speaker 4: I can't do this anymore. It was a light bulb moment,

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Speaker 4: but also one of the worst moments of my life,

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Speaker 4: where I thought this, I just can't go on like this.

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Speaker 2: I need to make a change in my life. And

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Speaker 2: I did.

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Speaker 1: But did you look at it, like, did you think

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Speaker 1: to yourself, this is a failure?

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Speaker 4: Did you?

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Speaker 1: Did you?

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Speaker 3: And if so, did you have to struggle with what

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Speaker 3: is failure as opposed to being successful by actually recognizing it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's real. That's a great question.

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Speaker 4: I think at the time I probably did feel like

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Speaker 4: it was some sort of failure because, as I mentioned,

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Speaker 4: I always wanted to achieve that. I always wanted to

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Speaker 4: be this well. I wanted to do a lot of

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Speaker 4: acting and things like that when I was young, but

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Speaker 4: I wanted to the show to work, and I wanted

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Speaker 4: to be the best producer I could, and I thought

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Speaker 4: that I had built something that would would allow me

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Speaker 4: to do that. And what I realized is that I

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Speaker 4: was completely crumbling inside. So I one hundred percent felt

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Speaker 4: like I had failed, and yet at the same time,

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Speaker 4: I also was still.

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Speaker 2: Too scared to let go of that job.

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Speaker 4: Why because I was scared to go into the unknown,

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Speaker 4: and I was scared that I was at the best

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Speaker 4: show that I could be on for radio at the time,

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Speaker 4: and I wouldn't maybe get another job anywhere else, And

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Speaker 4: it was very it was very safe for me. You see,

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Speaker 4: going into the unknown is scary for majority of people,

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Speaker 4: and it's something at that time and even now still

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Speaker 4: when I know all about the unknown and how a

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Speaker 4: lot of potential comes from going into places that we fear.

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Speaker 2: For me, that was scary. So you know what happened.

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Speaker 4: This is quite a funny in hindsight story. I didn't

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Speaker 4: want to leave that job even though I hated it

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Speaker 4: and I felt so unwell and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 4: So when I had that dark night of the soul

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Speaker 4: moment when I was very unwell, the decision that I

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Speaker 4: made was, I want to understand the mind body connection.

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Speaker 4: I want to understand why some people are happier than others.

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Speaker 4: I had had a friend that was doing a lot

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Speaker 4: of personal development work, and so I went and dived

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Speaker 4: into every personal development book, anything on psychology that I

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Speaker 4: could study, because I wanted to understand how I could

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Speaker 4: change the way that I was thinking one thing about me.

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Speaker 2: If I do something, I go all in, right.

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Speaker 4: I don't just like read a book or listen to

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Speaker 4: a podcast and sure I understand it, but make no

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Speaker 4: changes in my life. I am that sort of person

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Speaker 4: where I make a decision to do something, I'm going

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Speaker 4: to do it. And I thought to myself, I need

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Speaker 4: to change my behaviors and my habits because they have

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Speaker 4: led me to this point of burnout. For example, for example,

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Speaker 4: I had a mind that was running wild.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: There's a beautiful Sufi poet from the nineteenth cent called Rumy,

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Speaker 4: and he has this saying which was my mind.

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Speaker 2: It says, why do you put yourself.

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Speaker 4: In jail when the door is wide open, And that

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Speaker 4: is talking about the mind, where the way that we

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Speaker 4: are thinking is how we perceive things on the outside. Right,

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Speaker 4: we can change that in a second. And for me,

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Speaker 4: I had grown up in a family who was so

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Speaker 4: loving and beautiful, but they were worried about everything, right.

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Speaker 4: So it was like, you know, worried about me driving

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Speaker 4: at nighttime, worried that I was too cold, worried that

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Speaker 4: I was too hot, whatever it was. So I grew

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Speaker 4: up with this understanding of worrying. So I would worry

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Speaker 4: about everything. I would constantly worry about my job. I

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Speaker 4: would worry about things that hadn't happened. Say, for example,

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Speaker 4: I'd get an email from someone that I worked with

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Speaker 4: that might have been more superior to me, and it

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Speaker 4: would be like something like I want to see you

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Speaker 4: tomorrow to discuss a project we're working on. I wouldn't

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Speaker 4: be able to sleep that night, and then I would

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Speaker 4: drive to work thinking that I was probably going to

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Speaker 4: get fired or some other negative thing. Right, And this

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Speaker 4: was all because an email said I want to meet

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Speaker 4: you tomorrow to discuss a project. So my mind was

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Speaker 4: so wide marked towards the negative rather than the positive.

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Speaker 4: That was just my way of coping. But it was

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Speaker 4: driving me mad, and it was making me sick. Right,

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Speaker 4: everything I would worry about, even the smallest things, right,

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Speaker 4: you know, Oh my god, my kids are going to

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Speaker 4: this excursion today, will they be okay? The worst case

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Speaker 4: scenario always playing in my head. It was a safety mechanism.

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Speaker 4: And then the more I studied the mind body connection,

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Speaker 4: the more I realized, hold on the way that I

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Speaker 4: think is my choice, not someone else's. I have the

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Speaker 4: ability to change the way that I think. And we

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Speaker 4: know now through neuroscience and neuroplasticity that the mind can

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Speaker 4: rewire itself to the day that you die. You just

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Speaker 4: need to know how to use it properly. So I

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Speaker 4: started to learn about how do.

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Speaker 2: We do that?

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Speaker 4: When we get negative thoughts, how do we get rid

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Speaker 4: of them and replace them with a positive feeling thought?

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Speaker 2: What happens when we're ruminating?

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Speaker 4: How do we get out of the cycle of having

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Speaker 4: this negative thought when it's three point thirty am and

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Speaker 4: not being able to sleep. And the more I studied that,

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Speaker 4: and the more I learnt about it and how to

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Speaker 4: undo that, the more that I was free and it

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Speaker 4: wasn't free from any person. It was free from myself, right,

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Speaker 4: And it was the most deliberating thing that I've ever experienced.

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Speaker 4: And so going back to the story about what happened

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Speaker 4: is I was still the only thing I was still

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Speaker 4: scared of was moving out of that role, right.

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Speaker 2: So I was holding on to.

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Speaker 4: Dear life to a role, which sounds so crazy even

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Speaker 4: now when I'm telling this story, I'm like, why would

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Speaker 4: I have done that that I did not like? But

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Speaker 4: it was security for me. I was getting paid a

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Speaker 4: lot of money. And then the boss came from Sydney

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Speaker 4: to Melbourne and he says, your role is moving to Sydney, so.

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Speaker 2: You know, do you want to move to Sydney? And

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I can't move to Sydney.

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Speaker 4: I'm my whole family's in Melbourne, and it's just not

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Speaker 4: going to happen. And it was interesting because I'd been

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Speaker 4: maybe two months or so on this, studying the mind

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Speaker 4: and learning about psychology and all these other different bits

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Speaker 4: and pieces exactly, and I would have normally have freaked

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Speaker 4: in a situation like that, but for some reason I

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Speaker 4: felt okay, and I reckon. It was one and a

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Speaker 4: half two weeks later, when I got a call from

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Speaker 4: Dave Cameron and Totter's saying, hey, we're just started podcast

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Speaker 4: one and Hami Shehnandia moving from radio into podcasting. Do

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Speaker 4: you want to be their executive producer? And I was like,

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Speaker 4: oh my God, of course I do. And like I said,

401
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,159
Speaker 4: three months into being their EP, I came up with

402
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Speaker 4: the idea for my podcast because I could not believe

403
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Speaker 4: these changes in my life that were happening when I

404
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Speaker 4: started to change the way that I viewed the world

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Speaker 4: and the way that I thought about myself.

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Speaker 3: You talked about europlasticity before, and that's obviously what you've done.

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Speaker 3: You've got to change the way you think and the brain.

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Speaker 1: Can do that. But what's the step before it?

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Speaker 3: Like, do you have to have a catastrophe around you

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Speaker 3: such as so much so that you're at the lowest

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Speaker 3: point you just got nowhere to go except do something

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Speaker 3: like this or further demise. Or do you get inspired

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Speaker 3: by somebody else and hopefully someone could be listening to

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Speaker 3: this right now, we'll read your book, which we'll talk

415
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Speaker 3: about a little bit later, or listen to your podcast

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Speaker 3: might get inspired by you and make a change. How

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Speaker 3: do most people decide that they're going to make that

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Speaker 3: mindset change.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question.

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Speaker 4: So, as you would know from your podcast and I

421
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Speaker 4: know from mine, I would say ninety five percent of

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Speaker 4: people that come on have some hardcore story and it's

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Speaker 4: a negative one that has made them look within to

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Speaker 4: then make changes in their life. But your work and

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Speaker 4: my work, we don't want people to get to that point.

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Speaker 2: Right.

427
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Speaker 4: You can change yourself at any stage in your life

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Speaker 4: by listening to a podcast or reading a book, But

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Speaker 4: a lot of us won't change if we're comfortable. We

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Speaker 4: change because we're uncomfortable and we don't want to go

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Speaker 4: on like this. And some people don't change at all,

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Speaker 4: you know, and that can be detrimental to them because

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Speaker 4: they can get into a point where they're in a

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Speaker 4: really bad situation and they don't know how to get

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Speaker 4: out of it, or they you know, thinking really badly

436
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 4: of themselves and they don't know how to rewire their

437
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Speaker 4: mind or make any sort of changes in their life,

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Speaker 4: and they lead the rest of their life not being

439
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Speaker 4: very happy people.

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Speaker 3: How important is it for say, like someone like you,

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Speaker 3: and given that you now talk about this a lot,

442
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 3: how important is it for us to have a good

443
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 3: community around us to help us sort of either recognize

444
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,320
Speaker 3: this issue or have someone to talk about this issue,

445
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 3: even if it's only one person, and or once we

446
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,360
Speaker 3: make the decision, have people to support a sleep, husband

447
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 3: and wife, a friend, a brother, sister, mates, whatever deal is.

448
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's unbelievably important. Oh had helped me immensely.

449
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,199
Speaker 4: I was really lucky, and I think about this a

450
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,199
Speaker 4: lot that I had friends that were interested in the

451
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 4: same things as me. So I had a friend in particular,

452
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 4: as I mentioned, that was really getting into personal development works.

453
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 4: So she said, why don't you read this book? Why

454
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 4: don't there's another book that's great. So she was guiding

455
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 4: me a little bit.

456
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 1: Because she thought you needed it, or because I reached

457
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 1: out to it.

458
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 4: Yeah. I reached out to her because I knew she

459
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 4: had started really getting into this stuff, and she seemed

460
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:43,160
Speaker 4: very happy as well.

461
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 1: How did you know you should do that? Because some

462
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: people don't even know.

463
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 2: I know, it's interesting instinct. It was instinct. It was instinct.

464
00:22:51,880 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 4: I've always had an interest in personal development and never

465
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 4: at all religion, but I really do understand and appreciate it.

466
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 4: And so there were when I was eighteen I studied

467
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 4: the coupler. I'm a Jewish person, and there was this

468
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 4: very well renowned still exists rabbi in Melbourne, where I'm from,

469
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 4: and he was teaching the Coverla and it was the

470
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 4: spiritual teachings of you know, the Jewish religion, and that

471
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 4: really interested me for some weird like it seemed quite

472
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 4: strange because no one else was into it except maybe

473
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 4: Demi Moore and Madonna.

474
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 2: At the time. It was not a bad company, yeah exactly.

475
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 4: And I remember like studying with him and really enjoying it,

476
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 4: and then it kind of lay dormant.

477
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 2: I did that for a year or so, and I

478
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 2: was young.

479
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,239
Speaker 4: I just finished school, and so I always had that

480
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 4: interest in learning about things to do with the mind,

481
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,199
Speaker 4: things that were slightly esoterical.

482
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 2: It just interested it interest me. And so when I

483
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 2: was at my darkest point and I saw that my

484
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 2: friend had been doing some other work on herself, and

485
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 2: I thought, you know what, I was thinking about this

486
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 2: for a little bit of time, and now that I'm

487
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 2: at a point where I really need help, this is

488
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 2: what I'm going to do.

489
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 3: Did you see did your friend does that deduction or

490
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 3: that conclusion to do that once you're experiencing what you're experiencing.

491
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 3: Does that come about as a result of having someone

492
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 3: within your community where you have observed that person going

493
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 3: through either something similar or alternatively going having made the

494
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 3: decision to work on their personal self, and then observe

495
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 3: that it looks like they are enjoying themselves a lot better?

496
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 2: Is it?

497
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: And therefore how important is the whole community thing?

498
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 3: Because if some people don't have you've ever been, If

499
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 3: you hadn't been sort of open to this individual and

500
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 3: didn't have a relationship with this individual, then you may

501
00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 3: have never gone down this track.

502
00:24:59,160 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

503
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 4: Look, I think fifty percent was seeing her working on

504
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 4: herself and how well she was doing. And fifty percent

505
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 4: was also me understanding that this personal development world existed

506
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 4: and always having a slight fascination with it, you know,

507
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 4: because the couple art stuff really talks to that as well.

508
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 4: So I think it was both the social proof that

509
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 4: she was doing well and I.

510
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: Trust her good sentence social proof like that, and.

511
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 4: Then also my own inkling that this was kind of

512
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 4: an area that also interested me, and I think now

513
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 4: seven years later, no, it's more than that. For people

514
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 4: that don't have community, they have podcasts, they have live shows.

515
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 4: There's so many more books out there. It's become so

516
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 4: mainstream personal development wellness. It's you know, you know, when

517
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 4: you sell a podcast. We were talking about that before

518
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 4: we started. It is one of the top tiers of

519
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 4: things that people are interested in. I think coc yeah, exactly,

520
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 4: crime is always the first one. I think COVID really

521
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 4: helped that too. People had good awareness. Yes, people looked

522
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 4: within and they realized that a lot of people suffered

523
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 4: during that time, you know. So it then really builds

524
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 4: out this understanding of what more can I do for myself?

525
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 4: And you know, how can I get my inside secure

526
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:25,959
Speaker 4: to make the noise of the world and what happens

527
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 4: on the outside which we don't have a lot of

528
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 4: control of, How can I deal without knowing that I've

529
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 4: got a deep inner core that I've worked on.

530
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 2: So you.

531
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 3: Launched before covid. You launched your podcast before covid, albeit

532
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 3: sort of in a very modest way initially, I guess.

533
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 3: But it sounds like you had some pretty big guests

534
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 3: early up. But how much do you think that covid

535
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 3: has conditioned our minds or listeners' minds to be far

536
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 3: more open and have a not even a prepare something

537
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 3: greater than a preparedness, like nearly like a punch on

538
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 3: a penchon to find out more about mindset and wellness

539
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 3: and mental wellness and and having good balance.

540
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,239
Speaker 1: How do you how important you think COVID was for that?

541
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 2: Because I think huge?

542
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think.

543
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 4: Huge, right, Because firstly, people were in crisis because they

544
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 4: were locked up or good reason.

545
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 2: Right, you know we weren't, you know down in Victoria,

546
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 2: especially down where I was. People still talking about that.

547
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 4: Now and the fact that we talked about community and

548
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 4: how important that is. We were taken away from that, right.

549
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 4: You know, you were lucky if you had a family

550
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 4: or someone that you lived with, but otherwise if you didn't,

551
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 4: that was very hard. So what happens again, people go

552
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 4: through crisis, and what happens when you go through crisis.

553
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 4: Crisis is the touchstone of spiritual expansion of some sort,

554
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 4: and you know through that is personal development work. I

555
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 4: can only control what's I do. I can't control the

556
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 4: outer world, So how do I make my inner world

557
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 4: as strong as possible? And that's what happened during COVID.

558
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 4: So I do think for sure, everything from wellness to

559
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 4: personal development to mindset boomed after.

560
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 3: That and do you think it? Certainly is my case.

561
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 3: But do you think that your podcast is a form

562
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 3: of therapy for you?

563
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely.

564
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,239
Speaker 4: My podcast brings me so much joy because it's not

565
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 4: like work.

566
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 2: Firstly, I get to meet the most amazing people.

567
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 4: I choose who I have on, so I'm not It's

568
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 4: not like producers are saying, yeah, they might give me ideas, sure,

569
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 4: but no one's forcing me to have certain people on.

570
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 4: And I think that makes such a difference in the

571
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 4: quality of the conversations. I remember back in the radio

572
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 4: days when I was producing, they had to have certain

573
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 4: people on, right, you know, you've got to do this

574
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 4: for Channel nine, You've got to do this and that.

575
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 4: There's none of that in podcasting, so I mean maybe

576
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 4: some podcasts, but not ours. So I love that, And

577
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 4: I have an interest in all different types of people,

578
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 4: and I honestly love conversations like you. I love hearing

579
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 4: about what makes someone tick. I love hearing about how

580
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 4: they went through adversity and then climbed out of it.

581
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 2: And I love listening as well.

582
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 4: I honestly do so when I have a conversation with

583
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 4: a person, I just love hearing what they have to

584
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 4: say and engaging with them in that So it is

585
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 4: absolutely a form of therapy. And is that podcast has

586
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 4: done so much for me.

587
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 2: It's funny because.

588
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 4: A lot of people they have a brand and they

589
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 4: create a name for themselves and then they do a podcast.

590
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 4: Whilst I didn't have that because I was a producer

591
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 4: and I had an idea, and I also had been

592
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 4: through my own stuff and I had, you know, this

593
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 4: knowledge of mindset and personal development, and I started the

594
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 4: podcast like that, and then that podcast has turned.

595
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 2: Into a book.

596
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 4: I do live shows now, you know, with thousands of

597
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 4: people in the audience.

598
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 2: I'm a keynote speaker.

599
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 4: That podcast has been the door to open so many

600
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 4: opportunities for me, and I love it still more than anything.

601
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 3: Do you think that maybe when you look back on

602
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 3: at those things, is that it was always you always

603
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 3: meant to be a podcaster, which is sort of like

604
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 3: a semi performance. I think it is anyway in my case,

605
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 3: and therefore you were probably always meant to be a

606
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 3: performer of some type.

607
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny you say that as opposed to me

608
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: on the other side.

609
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, And when I was on the other side, I

610
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 4: enjoyed it a lot, so I wasn't you know some

611
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 4: people that kind of go on the other side, but

612
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 4: they always want to be in front.

613
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 2: I wasn't like that at all.

614
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 4: But when I was young, I loved acting, right, So

615
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 4: I was at a big drama school in Melbourne from

616
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 4: four or five years of age. I did all the

617
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 4: school plays. I went to UNI and did you know,

618
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 4: marketing and all these other things. But I also studied

619
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 4: film when I was there. I absolutely loved that. But

620
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 4: then a drama teacher said to me when I was

621
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 4: at UNI, so I would have been you know, around

622
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 4: eighteen ninety nine percent of actors are unemployed. If you

623
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 4: think about doing this, you should think again. And I

624
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 4: was shattered. But I also didn't want to do a

625
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 4: job where I wasn't going to earn money and you

626
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 4: have to waitress on the side. I didn't want to

627
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 4: do that. So then I moved into corporate like marketing.

628
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 4: I did that at a bank, I did it at

629
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 4: real estate, dot com and all these other places. And

630
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 4: then it wasn't till maybe ten years of working within

631
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 4: that kind of very corporate sector that I got the

632
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 4: job at Southern Crosso Stereo. But you know what, Mark

633
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 4: and I talk about this often, and from a business perspective,

634
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 4: I think you could.

635
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:56,959
Speaker 2: Relate to it.

636
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 4: Doing the hard yards in corporate, which at times was

637
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 4: not fun and it was definitely not exactly what I

638
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 4: wanted to do, gave me the most unbelievable skills.

639
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: Right, What skills do you get from that?

640
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 4: So even things like being able to write an email properly,

641
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 4: being able answering the email, an efficient amount of timing,

642
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 4: understanding where you have bosses, just how to speak to

643
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 4: them what's expected.

644
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 2: It's quite rigid in those places.

645
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 3: Can't just stop you there there for sir, because you've

646
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 3: glossed over something and you're being very modest about it.

647
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 3: But it's an interesting point of being able to read

648
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 3: an email and then being able to craft a response. Now,

649
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 3: some people do get stuck because they overthink the response

650
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 3: and as a result of that, the response is late

651
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 3: and it's no better. But they might do twenty drafts.

652
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 3: That's a skill. But to be able to hit it

653
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 3: up in one draft, two drafts, small changes, but do

654
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 3: it quickly and efficiently. But get back to the individual

655
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 3: who's asked sent you the email. Yes, because because if

656
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 3: you get twenty emails or thirty emails in a day.

657
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 3: These just just back up. Yeah, and that's a new

658
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 3: form of stress and anxiety. And look, I haven't answered

659
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 3: all the questions, I haven't answered all the emails. I

660
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 3: can't get on top of this. It's getting too much

661
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 3: for me. How did you learn that skill about how

662
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 3: to be efficient around what is good enough as opposed

663
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 3: to what's perfect?

664
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 4: So working at places like Census, real estate dot com,

665
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 4: Like I worked at all of them, and they were,

666
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 4: you know, big corporates, and they expected a lot from you,

667
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 4: and I was junior going into these roles, and so

668
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 4: basically I just was at the understanding that if someone

669
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 4: emails you, you need to get back to them that day, right.

670
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 4: And you know, I was always a good writer, so

671
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 4: I knew how to put an email together. But I

672
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 4: just became unbelievably efficient because I never wanted anyone to

673
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 4: have to wait around for some email from me or

674
00:33:58,600 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 4: whatever it was.

675
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 2: So it just became practice.

676
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 4: I'm sure the first couple of emails, the first year

677
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 4: of emails, wasn't as good as the year after that.

678
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 4: And you know, I think I got in trouble here

679
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 4: and there. I remember a lawyer at one of the

680
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 4: places I worked. You know, I got in trouble because

681
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 4: I didn't put something within an email. So you learn, right,

682
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 4: You learn when you make little mistakes along the way,

683
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 4: and it's enough to kind of scare you a little

684
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 4: bit to go, Okay, I'm going to do better at

685
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 4: this time. I'm going to make sure that I include

686
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 4: whatever it is that they wanted. I might read over

687
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 4: the email a couple of times to make sure all

688
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 4: the spelling and grammar is good. I mean, these are

689
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 4: way before AI days, and you just learn how to

690
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 4: do that. I find now and I was talking about

691
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 4: it with a girlfriend the other day who also worked

692
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 4: in corporate.

693
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 2: It allows you to be unbelievably efficient.

694
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,479
Speaker 4: And these days, a lot of people you might wait

695
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 4: three weeks and get an email back, and this is

696
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 4: like an opportunity for them. And you're asking, you know,

697
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 4: quote me on something, or can you do this?

698
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 2: You're like, don't.

699
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 4: There was not even an acknowledgment like, hey, I've got

700
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 4: your email. I'm so snowed down at the moment, I'll

701
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 4: send you something next week.

702
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 2: Nothing.

703
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 4: You're like, did I even have the right email address?

704
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 4: There was no bounce back things have changed, and I

705
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 4: think working in that corporate role being unbelievably efficient. It

706
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,240
Speaker 4: being quite strict and rigid, which you know, I felt

707
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 4: was boring at times. Then when I moved over to

708
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 4: the Southern Cross Steria, I was like, this is the

709
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 4: most relaxed place I've ever worked. Right, But I was

710
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 4: an amazing producer because I'd come from that very strict,

711
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 4: rigid things have to be done perfectly, and it ended

712
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 4: up leading me to this point because of all the

713
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 4: knowledge I got in those other roles, especially.

714
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 2: I worked in PR.

715
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 4: For a period of time, I worked in marketing, so

716
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 4: I can think like that when I have my podcast. Now, okay, marketing,

717
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 4: what will work?

718
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 2: PR? What's going to work? So everything leads you to

719
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 2: this point.

720
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 4: So for anyone listening that might not have gotten their

721
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 4: dream job straight away, I mean I didn't get it.

722
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 2: It took me years to get to wherever I wanted to.

723
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 2: It's an evolution. But I learned so much from those

724
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 2: roles that I didn't love.

725
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 3: So that's you talked about routine. So how important do

726
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 3: you think working in the corporate environment actually taught you

727
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 3: and actually enabled you to get a proper mindset as

728
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 3: to how to structure your email answering process.

729
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: Let's call it that. It's not all you did in

730
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: the day, but how to structure that part of your day.

731
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 3: In other words, every day nine am, or every day

732
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,439
Speaker 3: six pm, or every evening at eight pm, or every

733
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 3: certain time, I'm going to go through more emails, emails

734
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 3: and make sure everything's been answered. That mindset of efficiency,

735
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 3: because the only way you get efficiency is through.

736
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: Structure and structure ISO it comes from the right mindset.

737
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 3: And that goes back to what you were talking about

738
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 3: mindset for yourself relative to know how you were suffering

739
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 3: when you do in the radio.

740
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 1: Show, changing your mindset.

741
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 3: But this is a learned skill, yes, and I put

742
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:00,320
Speaker 3: it down a mindset and mindset.

743
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: To me, it's about structure. How do I set my mind?

744
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

745
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 4: And I think when you have people around you, you know,

746
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 4: like I said, I was young, these were like the

747
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,879
Speaker 4: first jobs besides you know, doing bits and pieces when

748
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 4: you're at UNI, these were the first like proper corporate

749
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 4: jobs that I had. Watching people who are above me

750
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 4: in the way that they were behaved, you know, they

751
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 4: guide you human behavior. It was everything. I can't I

752
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 4: feel bad if I have left an email without a

753
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 4: response for more than two days.

754
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 2: I feel bad.

755
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 4: Yet I see that that behavior not from other people. Right,

756
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 4: So it was so good in getting me to where

757
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 4: I am, and it absolutely allowed me to have the

758
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 4: mindset of, Okay, this is how you work in a business,

759
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 4: in a corporate business, in one that's very successful, in

760
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 4: one where you know they're dealing with other things that

761
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 4: are very very important, and this is the way I

762
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 4: need to show up for that.

763
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 2: So I learned a huge amount, a huge amount.

764
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 3: So just a quick observation from my point of view

765
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 3: in relation to you, how important do you think in

766
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 3: your case it has been for you to succeed through

767
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 3: various ups and downs, for you to have this one

768
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 3: characteristic that is the ability to be an observer. In

769
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 3: other words, you observe your girlfriend who was going through

770
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 3: some challenges, she changed her mindset. You observe the people

771
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,399
Speaker 3: in the corporate environments and which behaviors were successful, which

772
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 3: weren't successful successful?

773
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: How important?

774
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 3: And by the way, podcasting is all about observations your

775
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 3: most but how important do you think stepping back and

776
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 3: just looking at what's going on around you being a

777
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 3: really good observer as opposed to a participant, because you know,

778
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 3: some people just want to be the participant. They want

779
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 3: to be in the front or front row, participating, involved,

780
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 3: But sometimes you need that's important to be that, but

781
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 3: sometimes you've got to be able to step back and

782
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 3: be observed.

783
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: How important is that to you?

784
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 2: Oh?

785
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 4: Everything? And no one's ever asked me that question. I

786
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 4: love it everything, you know, how imported.

787
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: I've got that question.

788
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 2: I was like, God, this is good.

789
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 4: You know.

790
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 2: It made me a very good interviewer.

791
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 4: And I'll tell you why, because as a producer, I

792
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 4: used to sit there and this is when I was

793
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 4: on radio and they have like six minute breaks. I mean,

794
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 4: just to think that we do podcasts that go for

795
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 4: an hour or so and we get into the topics

796
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 4: and it's, you know.

797
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: Really thoughtful.

798
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 4: You go on a radio show and god forbid, you're

799
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 4: trying to like promote a book or whatever it is.

800
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 4: I mean, they ask you one question, they say the

801
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 4: name of your book. You you know, they greet you,

802
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 4: and it's time to go.

803
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 1: It's transactional.

804
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 2: It's so transactional.

805
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 4: And it was interesting because I would think, why is

806
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 4: the host cutting them off?

807
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 2: They didn't even ask a good question. This person has

808
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 2: so much to say.

809
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 4: And they haven't read the notes properly because usually in

810
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 4: radio it's the producer that's writing the questions. And you know,

811
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 4: I'm not always but a lot of the time, and

812
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 4: I observed so much, and I always would think they

813
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 4: should have done this, or maybe they could have done that,

814
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 4: but also maybe that was really good. And I love

815
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 4: the way they interacted with that person. And so again

816
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 4: not really realizing, I wasn't so conscious about it, but

817
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 4: I was picking up so much knowledge by observing what

818
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 4: these people were doing over however many years, and then

819
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 4: working even on Haymish and Andy. They didn't really interview

820
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:42,919
Speaker 4: people on their podcast, but what I observed from them

821
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 4: was how to be a good boss because the two

822
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 4: of them, yeah, yes, the two of them, they weren't

823
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 4: even really my boss, to be honest with you, but

824
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 4: they were just talent that we were working with. But

825
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 4: the way that they there was ten of us, and

826
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 4: the way they ran the show was unbelievable.

827
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 2: It was efficient.

828
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 4: You had a laugh every single day because they're so

829
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 4: naturally funny. They were kind, they were generous, and you

830
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,280
Speaker 4: wanted to work hard for them, even though they didn't,

831
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 4: you know, tell you that or anything like that because

832
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 4: you adored them. And I remember thinking, because I'd had

833
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 4: some crumby bosses over the years as well as some

834
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 4: really nice ones, and I remember thinking, when I build

835
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 4: my team, that's how I want to be because they

836
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 4: are they are leading through kindness, and we were efficient

837
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 4: for them, not fear. And it was so old school

838
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 4: to lead through this fear kind of mindset. And if

839
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 4: I scare the person, they're going to work harder for me.

840
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,919
Speaker 4: Because those boys, they've still got people on their team

841
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 4: that have worked for them, I think for like nearly

842
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 4: twenty years, and it's a young team. So these people

843
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 4: who have worked with them since they were just out

844
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 4: of UNI or whatever, because they love them. And so

845
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 4: that from an observation perspective was life changing for me

846
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 4: as well.

847
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 3: Would you say to people, how would you say to

848
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 3: people to get the right balance between being a participant

849
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 3: because you've got to be a participant too and end

850
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 3: or being an observer man, how do you work out

851
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 3: when I should sit back and observe or when I

852
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 3: should jump in and participate Because some people are shy,

853
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 3: they don't like to participate, they like to observe. Some

854
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 3: people around the other way. They've got no sense of

855
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 3: awareness and all they want to do is participate all

856
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 3: the time. I don't want to step back and observe.

857
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 3: But getting that balance, there's a bit of balance involved here,

858
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 3: A lot of balance evolved in here. You've learned it

859
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 3: because you've had the opportunity to work with.

860
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 1: All these various people, these great people you've worked with.

861
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 3: But how would you say to an average person who

862
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 3: or a young person might be listening to this now.

863
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 3: It might be thinking, I want to go and do

864
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 3: a podcast, I want to either be an executive producer

865
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 3: or podcast or want to become a podcaster.

866
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 1: What would you say to those individuals about getting that

867
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: balance right?

868
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 4: Look, I think observing, as we said, it's a great

869
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 4: thing because that's where you learn from. And then if

870
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 4: you have questions to ask through your observations, then absolutely

871
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 4: ask them because you know, if you're asking them to

872
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 4: people who are wise or experience, you're going to get

873
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 4: great answers. But you don't need to be the loudest

874
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 4: person in the room, right. I think a lot of

875
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 4: people think that if I talk a lot, if I

876
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 4: ask like a huge amount of questions, it seems like

877
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 4: I have high self esteem and that I'm really, you know,

878
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 4: very curious and into it. That's not true. You know,

879
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 4: the people that feel the best about themselves and have

880
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 4: the most confidence are usually the ones that sit back

881
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 4: and don't need to prove anything. But if there is

882
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 4: something that you have a question about, then for sure

883
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 4: ask it. But do a kind of dance between the

884
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 4: balance between both, because you're going to learn a lot

885
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 4: by observing what's going on, and then ask the question

886
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 4: and make sure you think about the question before you

887
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 4: ask it.

888
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:01,320
Speaker 3: So your book, so first, your book is called Living

889
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 3: a Life of Greatness, Living a Life of Greatness, which

890
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 3: is steps to fulfilling existence. Your podcast is called the same,

891
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 3: A Life of Greatness, A life of greatness?

892
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: What does that mean? A life of greatness?

893
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 3: So maybe you can because I'm sure it doesn't mean

894
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 3: you want you're going to turn people into Donald Trump

895
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,919
Speaker 3: or assuming he's great, or whoever else could be great

896
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 3: in the world.

897
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: You know, what does that mean?

898
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's interesting because I asked this question at

899
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 4: the end of my podcast to every single person, what

900
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 4: is a life of greatness to you? And I think

901
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 4: I've done five hundred and something interviews and you'll get

902
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,959
Speaker 4: similar answers from a lot of people. But I think

903
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 4: a life of greatness is about doing work or living

904
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 4: a life that has purpose and meaning in it. You know,

905
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 4: doing something that you love and even if it's not

906
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 4: an actual something to do with work, doing something in

907
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 4: your spare time that fulfills you allows you to want

908
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 4: to weigh up in the morning, and also having an

909
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 4: element of that that is of service. So everything you

910
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 4: do helps people right, helps them in their own lives

911
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 4: in so many different ways. With all the avenues of

912
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 4: the businesses and things you do. I mean, how much

913
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 4: would it fulfill you when you get an email or

914
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 4: you see someone in the street and they said, you

915
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 4: know what that podcast episode or the TV show or

916
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 4: whatever it was that changed my life And I am

917
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,240
Speaker 4: now doing X, Y and Z because of something you said.

918
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 2: I mean, you don't need any more than that to

919
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 2: keep you going right.

920
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 4: So being able to do anything that has an element

921
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 4: of service attached to it is going to make your

922
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 4: life great. And you know, within my book, I realized

923
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 4: there were certain pillars that I found in my life

924
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 4: through my own work as a mindset coach, but also

925
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 4: from interviewing people A life of greatness where I thought,

926
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 4: if people have these certain pillars, and that's the different

927
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,959
Speaker 4: chapters in the book, then they'll be able to lead

928
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 4: a fulfilling and great life. But you know, showing up

929
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 4: and doing things of servers are always going to make

930
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 4: you feel more enriched than doing something that's just for you.

931
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 3: And do you lean into your podcast stories or some

932
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,839
Speaker 3: of your podcasts some of them, yeah, into your book, Yeah,

933
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 3: some of them I do.

934
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you're you.

935
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 3: Know, you're taking some of those things that experiences out

936
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 3: that you have experienced and or the guest's experience and

937
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 3: put them into the book. And who and who do

938
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:38,399
Speaker 3: you think your book or who is the book sort

939
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 3: of directed to apart from just anyone who wants to

940
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,359
Speaker 3: read it. But did you have in mind I want

941
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 3: to share this with certain Cohorter people.

942
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, look, I think it Basically, I thought, it's for

943
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 4: anyone that wants to better their life, right, anyone that

944
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 4: wants to work on themselves and they don't, as we said,

945
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 4: have to go through a crisis or anything like that.

946
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 4: Someone that just wants to have a life that is

947
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 4: better than it is. Now, that was it. It wasn't

948
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 4: just for females or just for males, or for a

949
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 4: certain age demographic. I wrote it in a way that

950
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 4: I wanted to make it easy to understand for most

951
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 4: people and that they could pick it up and also

952
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 4: have elements that they could relate to. Right, So I

953
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 4: think when I write, people say to me, you know,

954
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,320
Speaker 4: I could relate to that story. I saw myself within

955
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 4: something that you wrote about. They'll say that with the

956
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 4: podcast as well. And we know when we relate to something,

957
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 4: we go, oh, I'm not alone, Sarah went through that too,

958
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 4: or whoever.

959
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 3: My guess, I can't believe you went through it, but

960
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 3: the fact that you said you went through it.

961
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 2: It gives them hope.

962
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's very.

963
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 3: Very interesting so that you've done this and obviously your

964
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 3: podcast as well. But what's interesting about this type of

965
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,439
Speaker 3: thing is that there's a lot of When you write

966
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 3: these books, as I've written a couple Boks, it's requires

967
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,439
Speaker 3: a lot of honesty and you have to dig deep

968
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 3: and you have to be honest with yourself and whoever

969
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 3: the book. And that also makes you start to thinking

970
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 3: about what courage is, how does courage fit into my life?

971
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 3: And you know, I'm going to say something in my

972
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 3: courageous enough to say that or admit that, especially if

973
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 3: you're admitting what would normally considered be considered not to

974
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 3: be success or challenges. And because that's what people want

975
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,479
Speaker 3: to read about, they're not really interested about reading about

976
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 3: your success.

977
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:26,240
Speaker 2: No, it's true.

978
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,399
Speaker 3: They want to relate to what I experienced that too,

979
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 3: and she got over and I can get over it.

980
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: So sort of off the back of that you get

981
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: hope as well.

982
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 3: So honesty, courage, hope, and they're the sort of things

983
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 3: we don't talk about much these days. We want to

984
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 3: talk about everything else, but we don't talk about virtues enough.

985
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 1: And that probably brings me.

986
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 3: Right back to the Kabbala and or the Bible, or

987
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 3: or any of those great scriptures that have been written.

988
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 3: Even if you go back to you know, the stories

989
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,919
Speaker 3: by Homer, they're all about the same thing. They're sort

990
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 3: of they and they your every generation for thousands and

991
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 3: thousands of years, and it could be in any text,

992
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 3: could be Buddhism for that matter, basic virtues.

993
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 4: It's all the same sentiment. Someone said this beautiful quote

994
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 4: to me once. It was don't take away someone's hope.

995
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 4: It might be all that they have.

996
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 2: You know, and.

997
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 4: You write these stories to allow people to know that

998
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 4: it's okay and that we all go through hard times.

999
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 4: And I had this beautiful lady on the podcast one

1000
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 4: day and she said this really profound line to me.

1001
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 4: She said, no day of your life will ever come again.

1002
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 4: And it sounds so simple, No day of your life

1003
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 4: will ever come again. But the more you think about it,

1004
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 4: the more you're like, oh my god, that's so right.

1005
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 4: Why do I sweat the small stuff? You know, if

1006
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 4: any of us have come into a situation where health

1007
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 4: comes into question, or someone we love suffers something that

1008
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 4: scares us, you know, to do with their health or

1009
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 4: whatever it is, mortality, we realize that all the things

1010
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 4: we were worried about and.

1011
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 2: All those little things they don't matter, right.

1012
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 4: And having knowing that again, it allows you to change

1013
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,879
Speaker 4: the way that you live your life thinking not going

1014
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 4: to be worried about those things anymore. There are bigger

1015
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 4: things that play here, more important things, and not everything

1016
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 4: in life has to be, you know, with a silver

1017
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 4: bowl around it and perfect. It's okay. It's okay to

1018
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 4: go through life and have hiccups and all of that

1019
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 4: along the way, but to show up as a good person,

1020
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 4: to serve other people and do the best that we

1021
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 4: can in something that we enjoy and love the people

1022
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,399
Speaker 4: around us. That's the most important thing.

1023
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 3: Some of the greatest gifts in life, don't do not

1024
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 3: come in activity. Bag, Yeah, in some other form of

1025
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 3: some of the fashion and hopefully it's after listening to

1026
00:50:56,239 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 3: your fabulously successful podcast and now you're really successful book.

1027
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 4: Thanks very much, Sarah, thank you so much for having me.

1028
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 4: I love this conversation a lot.

1029
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: You're welcome