1 00:00:03,990 --> 00:00:07,800 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear & Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. It's that time of year 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,969 Sean Aylmer: again when Australia's richest people are identified and ranked. I'm 3 00:00:11,969 --> 00:00:14,339 Sean Aylmer: sure they love it. Well, some like it, some don't. 4 00:00:14,429 --> 00:00:16,289 Sean Aylmer: But, there's one thing they hate more and that's falling 5 00:00:16,289 --> 00:00:20,430 Sean Aylmer: off the list altogether. The list, Australia's richest 250 has 6 00:00:20,430 --> 00:00:23,488 Sean Aylmer: been released by The Australian today and this year. There 7 00:00:23,489 --> 00:00:25,950 Sean Aylmer: are a few new names and some fascinating stories to 8 00:00:25,950 --> 00:00:28,950 Sean Aylmer: go with them. John Stensholt is the editor of the 9 00:00:28,950 --> 00:00:31,049 Sean Aylmer: list. John, welcome back to Fear & Greed. 10 00:00:31,650 --> 00:00:33,120 John Stensholt: Sean, a pleasure as always. 11 00:00:33,509 --> 00:00:36,870 Sean Aylmer: Am I allowed to ask John, how many years in 12 00:00:36,870 --> 00:00:39,479 Sean Aylmer: one form or another have you been doing this? 13 00:00:40,350 --> 00:00:44,370 John Stensholt: Oh, goodness me. I was a researcher at the BRW back in about 14 00:00:44,670 --> 00:00:50,519 John Stensholt: 2001, was probably the first list I worked on. You 15 00:00:50,519 --> 00:00:52,890 John Stensholt: can imagine how young I was then. 16 00:00:52,890 --> 00:00:56,790 Sean Aylmer: I was surprised you were born. Fantastic! Okay. So, tell us the list. Who are the top five 17 00:00:56,790 --> 00:00:57,270 Sean Aylmer: this year? 18 00:00:57,930 --> 00:00:59,700 John Stensholt: Well, I don't think it's any surprise to see Gina 19 00:00:59,700 --> 00:01:02,370 John Stensholt: Rinehart at number one, but she's worth $ 50 billion now. 20 00:01:02,850 --> 00:01:02,970 Sean Aylmer: Wow! 21 00:01:02,970 --> 00:01:04,979 John Stensholt: I think that's pretty big number, right? 22 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:05,580 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 23 00:01:05,580 --> 00:01:09,660 John Stensholt: That's on paper, but still it's just shows you how the mining boom 24 00:01:09,660 --> 00:01:12,238 John Stensholt: keeps going for her. So, it's a huge number. Biggest 25 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:12,990 John Stensholt: number ever, clearly. 26 00:01:13,290 --> 00:01:15,960 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. What about the two, three, four and five? 27 00:01:16,530 --> 00:01:18,929 John Stensholt: So two and three, we've got Nicola Forrest and Andrew 28 00:01:18,930 --> 00:01:20,759 John Stensholt: Forrest together. So, Nicola's on the list for the first 29 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,059 John Stensholt: time, because her and Andrew have split up. So, she 30 00:01:24,059 --> 00:01:26,340 John Stensholt: has wealth in her own name these days. And so 31 00:01:26,340 --> 00:01:27,929 John Stensholt: we put them together for now, because they want to 32 00:01:27,929 --> 00:01:32,730 John Stensholt: keep their wealth together. So, $ 37 billion combined. So, that's 33 00:01:32,730 --> 00:01:35,220 John Stensholt: two and three. Number four, we've got Anthony Pratt and 34 00:01:35,220 --> 00:01:40,080 John Stensholt: his family. So, 27 billion. And number five, Harry Triguboff. 91- year- 35 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:44,429 John Stensholt: old. Still going strong, $ 26 billion, still building and building 36 00:01:44,429 --> 00:01:46,499 John Stensholt: and building, Sydney apartments mostly. 37 00:01:46,980 --> 00:01:49,080 Sean Aylmer: Now, John. One of the first times I ever worked 38 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,140 Sean Aylmer: with you, you took me to a lunch in Sydney 39 00:01:52,260 --> 00:01:56,580 Sean Aylmer: with Harry Triguboff and he loved you. You were great 40 00:01:56,580 --> 00:01:59,460 Sean Aylmer: mates and you and he just laughed at each other. 41 00:01:59,460 --> 00:02:01,619 Sean Aylmer: And I was totally flummoxed by the whole thing, because 42 00:02:01,620 --> 00:02:03,810 Sean Aylmer: he is quite a character, Harry Triguboff. Would you agree? 43 00:02:04,500 --> 00:02:08,580 John Stensholt: Oh, look. He's 91 and he's still charging around like he's, I don't know, 30, 40 years 44 00:02:08,580 --> 00:02:12,030 John Stensholt: younger. Yeah. He's not the tallest guy, but when he 45 00:02:12,030 --> 00:02:15,360 John Stensholt: puts the base on, he's really ... It's the energy though, isn't it, 46 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,360 John Stensholt: really? That's the thing about people like him. He's 91. He's 47 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,089 John Stensholt: got no intention of ever retiring and he's still got 48 00:02:21,089 --> 00:02:23,339 John Stensholt: that energy and passion to keep running his business and 49 00:02:23,340 --> 00:02:26,160 John Stensholt: it's going better than ever. It's making more money, it's 50 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,830 John Stensholt: building more. If anything, he probably gets frustrated that he 51 00:02:28,830 --> 00:02:30,931 John Stensholt: can't grow it quickly enough for him. 52 00:02:30,931 --> 00:02:34,080 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, what about the total wealth of the 53 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,108 Sean Aylmer: list? Has it gone up? Has it increased or decreased 54 00:02:37,110 --> 00:02:37,560 Sean Aylmer: this year? 55 00:02:37,860 --> 00:02:41,549 John Stensholt: Yeah. So, it's gone up a bit. It's about $ 590 billion now between the 56 00:02:41,549 --> 00:02:45,030 John Stensholt: 250. So, that's up about 30 billion or so from last 57 00:02:45,030 --> 00:02:48,630 John Stensholt: year. It's probably reflective of some of the big people 58 00:02:48,630 --> 00:02:51,450 John Stensholt: like Gina going up and a couple of others. The 59 00:02:51,450 --> 00:02:54,540 John Stensholt: cutoff actually goes up to 590 million this year. So, 60 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:56,460 John Stensholt: look. It's a lot of money. Some of it's obviously 61 00:02:56,460 --> 00:02:58,709 John Stensholt: shared by people on the list, but when there's joint 62 00:02:58,709 --> 00:03:01,859 John Stensholt: entries, husband and wives or business partners or whatever ... But, 63 00:03:02,220 --> 00:03:04,560 John Stensholt: look. It's a substantial amount of money and it probably 64 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,339 John Stensholt: shows you what's happening in Australian business. That's the beauty 65 00:03:08,340 --> 00:03:09,450 John Stensholt: of the list, I think. It gives you a whole 66 00:03:09,450 --> 00:03:11,489 John Stensholt: lot of trends, which we can talk about if you like? 67 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,239 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. So, tell me, what are the sectors? Property traditionally 68 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,699 Sean Aylmer: has always had a big chunk of the very, very 69 00:03:17,699 --> 00:03:18,869 Sean Aylmer: rich. Is that still the case? 70 00:03:19,350 --> 00:03:22,500 John Stensholt: It is still the case. Look, it's about a quarter 71 00:03:22,500 --> 00:03:25,680 John Stensholt: of the list. But, what I like is that retail 72 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,459 John Stensholt: and technology, the next couple of cabs off the rank, 73 00:03:29,460 --> 00:03:31,619 John Stensholt: so to speak. And some of that mixes together. So 74 00:03:31,620 --> 00:03:34,409 John Stensholt: if you think about how companies sell these days, obviously 75 00:03:34,410 --> 00:03:37,110 John Stensholt: a lot of e- commerce or retail that's promoted online. 76 00:03:37,860 --> 00:03:39,090 John Stensholt: A couple of the younger guys that are on the 77 00:03:39,090 --> 00:03:42,510 John Stensholt: list, the Hismiles duo, Alex Tomic and Nik Mirkovic. And 78 00:03:42,510 --> 00:03:47,370 John Stensholt: they're only 29, 30. And it's toothpaste, but with flavors and 79 00:03:47,370 --> 00:03:51,900 John Stensholt: colors. And they do so well promoting it online, effectively 80 00:03:51,900 --> 00:03:53,849 John Stensholt: what is an old product. And so, all of a 81 00:03:53,850 --> 00:03:57,510 John Stensholt: sudden they're selling this amazing flavored toothpaste to places in 82 00:03:57,510 --> 00:04:01,320 John Stensholt: America. It's in Walmart and Boots in the UK. So, 83 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:05,520 John Stensholt: that also helps that the younger guys take their companies 84 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,099 John Stensholt: overseas earlier. So, it's almost being born global, some of 85 00:04:08,099 --> 00:04:08,849 John Stensholt: these entrepreneurs. 86 00:04:09,660 --> 00:04:11,339 Sean Aylmer: Are there more younger people on the list than they 87 00:04:11,340 --> 00:04:12,839 Sean Aylmer: used to be 20 years ago? 88 00:04:13,110 --> 00:04:15,510 John Stensholt: Yeah. I think there is. And technology plays a part. 89 00:04:15,510 --> 00:04:20,460 John Stensholt: If you talk about Harry Triguboff, he probably took 20 years 90 00:04:20,460 --> 00:04:23,039 John Stensholt: to really build that company. These days if you've been 91 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,779 John Stensholt: in technology for 20 years, you're an absolute veteran. The 92 00:04:27,779 --> 00:04:29,910 John Stensholt: Hismiles guys started 10 years ago, and that's actually a 93 00:04:29,910 --> 00:04:32,100 John Stensholt: long time. There's other people who have started five, six, 94 00:04:32,100 --> 00:04:35,130 John Stensholt: seven years ago. They get that startup funding. Atlassian has 95 00:04:35,130 --> 00:04:37,200 John Stensholt: been around for 20 years, but those guys are only 96 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,599 John Stensholt: in their early forties, right? So Mike Cannon- Brookes and 97 00:04:39,599 --> 00:04:43,020 John Stensholt: Scott Farquhar. So, yeah. I think there's younger entrepreneurs. The 98 00:04:43,020 --> 00:04:46,770 John Stensholt: Internet's clearly helped. Harry is probably one of the few 99 00:04:46,770 --> 00:04:49,680 John Stensholt: people at the top echelons of the list that just 100 00:04:50,220 --> 00:04:52,678 John Stensholt: cater for the domestic market only. Everyone else, or a 101 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,760 John Stensholt: lot of others, the world is their marketplace. There's no 102 00:04:56,849 --> 00:04:57,660 John Stensholt: barriers in that way. 103 00:04:58,139 --> 00:04:59,789 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, John. We'll be back in a minute. 104 00:05:05,940 --> 00:05:08,670 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is John Stensholdt, Editor of the 105 00:05:08,670 --> 00:05:13,440 Sean Aylmer: list, Australia's Richest 250. What about the surprises on the 106 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,349 Sean Aylmer: list? Was there anyone that you, particularly up towards the 107 00:05:16,349 --> 00:05:18,870 Sean Aylmer: top of the list, that had a big jump, that 108 00:05:18,870 --> 00:05:20,010 Sean Aylmer: you were a bit surprised by? 109 00:05:20,910 --> 00:05:23,009 John Stensholt: Oh, there's a guy called Tim Heath who's based in 110 00:05:23,010 --> 00:05:27,659 John Stensholt: Estonia. He's a crypto cryptocurrency gambling magnate. He's only 45. 111 00:05:27,660 --> 00:05:31,560 John Stensholt: He's worth, just uncovered him, 2. 15 billion. And he 112 00:05:32,339 --> 00:05:35,309 John Stensholt: makes his money from the gambling. He runs a sports 113 00:05:35,309 --> 00:05:38,219 John Stensholt: book. It's actually banned in Australia, because the government doesn't 114 00:05:38,219 --> 00:05:41,128 John Stensholt: allow people to gamble with crypto here. But, he's also 115 00:05:41,129 --> 00:05:44,070 John Stensholt: got about $1- billion worth of investments on the side. So, 116 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,640 John Stensholt: he's a serial investor. He's got about 100 investments in 117 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,868 John Stensholt: startups and other venture capital sort of things. So, I 118 00:05:51,870 --> 00:05:54,029 John Stensholt: think for someone like that, they make their money pretty 119 00:05:54,029 --> 00:05:55,770 John Stensholt: early and then they want to invest it and create 120 00:05:55,770 --> 00:05:58,980 John Stensholt: this investment ecosystem, I suppose. I think someone like that's 121 00:05:58,980 --> 00:05:59,760 John Stensholt: pretty interesting. 122 00:06:00,089 --> 00:06:02,580 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Okay. You have to tell us a little bit 123 00:06:02,580 --> 00:06:06,360 Sean Aylmer: about putting it together. You have instructed me, many years 124 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,309 Sean Aylmer: ago on how to help you and how to do 125 00:06:08,309 --> 00:06:10,649 Sean Aylmer: it. Man, it is painstaking! 126 00:06:11,670 --> 00:06:13,830 John Stensholt: Yeah. Well, there's 250 people on the list. Some of them 127 00:06:13,830 --> 00:06:17,189 John Stensholt: go together. But, yeah. It's taken quite a few months 128 00:06:17,190 --> 00:06:21,089 John Stensholt: of work, particularly I think while everyone's on their summer 129 00:06:21,089 --> 00:06:23,159 John Stensholt: holidays, I feel like I'm just slaving around this list 130 00:06:23,159 --> 00:06:23,488 John Stensholt: all the time. 131 00:06:23,488 --> 00:06:24,900 Sean Aylmer: You are, John. You are. 132 00:06:24,990 --> 00:06:27,210 John Stensholt: But, yeah. Look, we try and speak to most people 133 00:06:27,420 --> 00:06:29,370 John Stensholt: on a background basis. Obviously, I know some that won't 134 00:06:29,370 --> 00:06:31,500 John Stensholt: speak, but a lot of them do, and you will 135 00:06:31,500 --> 00:06:35,099 John Stensholt: not believe the amount of balance sheets or information and 136 00:06:35,100 --> 00:06:38,760 John Stensholt: other asset valuations that I'll be sent. I remember one 137 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,940 John Stensholt: year someone actually got an investment bank to value their 138 00:06:41,940 --> 00:06:43,950 John Stensholt: company for them, just for the purposes of sending it 139 00:06:43,950 --> 00:06:47,070 John Stensholt: to me for the list. That would've cost, I don't know, 140 00:06:47,700 --> 00:06:50,249 John Stensholt: thousands of thousands of dollars I'm sure. There's other sorts 141 00:06:50,250 --> 00:06:53,070 John Stensholt: of examples like that. So, yeah. You're right. People don't 142 00:06:53,070 --> 00:06:55,378 John Stensholt: want to necessarily be on the list. I think they 143 00:06:55,649 --> 00:06:57,690 John Stensholt: tolerate it and they probably don't want to be off 144 00:06:57,690 --> 00:06:58,290 John Stensholt: it once they're on it. 145 00:06:58,740 --> 00:07:00,690 Sean Aylmer: For sure. Once you've been doing it for so long. 146 00:07:00,690 --> 00:07:04,950 Sean Aylmer: No disrespect, of course, John, people probably expect their call 147 00:07:05,428 --> 00:07:07,889 Sean Aylmer: of February, March. " John Stensholt's going to give me a 148 00:07:07,889 --> 00:07:08,579 Sean Aylmer: ring at some point." 149 00:07:08,790 --> 00:07:10,889 John Stensholt: Yeah. Absolutely. And if you don't, then they'll let you 150 00:07:10,889 --> 00:07:13,649 John Stensholt: known, which obviously we try and do. But, the few 151 00:07:13,650 --> 00:07:15,270 John Stensholt: that I have to remind that, " Yes. I did call you 152 00:07:15,270 --> 00:07:17,130 John Stensholt: in January," and I don't know, maybe they were on 153 00:07:17,130 --> 00:07:18,630 John Stensholt: their yacht or something like that and they missed the 154 00:07:18,630 --> 00:07:22,380 John Stensholt: call, but I do try. And, yeah. There is a 155 00:07:22,380 --> 00:07:24,240 John Stensholt: perennial thing now, I suppose, that, " Oh, yeah. Here we 156 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,729 John Stensholt: go again." It's just something to deal with or they'll 157 00:07:26,730 --> 00:07:29,730 John Stensholt: get someone from their company or an underling or something 158 00:07:29,730 --> 00:07:32,460 John Stensholt: like that to take that call and have that negotiation, 159 00:07:32,460 --> 00:07:35,820 John Stensholt: so to speak. But, yeah. There's a lot of information 160 00:07:35,820 --> 00:07:38,880 John Stensholt: that gets exchanged in the background, that obviously as the 161 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,520 John Stensholt: journalist you have to treat on a confidential basis, and that's 162 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:41,939 John Stensholt: what we do. 163 00:07:42,389 --> 00:07:44,610 Sean Aylmer: I always remember when the list comes out talking to 164 00:07:44,610 --> 00:07:46,830 Sean Aylmer: Rich Listers and saying, " The problem with it not being 165 00:07:46,830 --> 00:07:50,850 Sean Aylmer: correct is that the tax office and others look at 166 00:07:50,850 --> 00:07:54,540 Sean Aylmer: it and they cross- reference it." So, in a sense, 167 00:07:54,540 --> 00:07:57,389 Sean Aylmer: there's an incentive for the rich listers who you're talking 168 00:07:57,389 --> 00:07:59,729 Sean Aylmer: to make sure it's reasonably correct? 169 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:01,709 John Stensholt: I think there's a bit of a ... Yeah. There's several 170 00:08:01,709 --> 00:08:03,299 John Stensholt: that say, "Oh, look. If you're going to do it, you may 171 00:08:03,299 --> 00:08:07,079 John Stensholt: as well get it right," so to speak. " We want 172 00:08:07,589 --> 00:08:10,560 John Stensholt: other people to know what it is. It helps either their businesses, 173 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,410 John Stensholt: or you're right, that relationship with the tax office. Now 174 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:15,990 John Stensholt: people say, " Oh, you must talk to the tax office 175 00:08:15,990 --> 00:08:17,880 John Stensholt: all the time." Well, I don't think the tax office operate 176 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:19,739 John Stensholt: that way. But, there's always those tales isn't there of 177 00:08:20,580 --> 00:08:22,949 John Stensholt: we sell a lot of copies that are near the 178 00:08:22,949 --> 00:08:24,840 John Stensholt: ATO headquarters or something like that, I suspect. 179 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:26,190 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Yeah. 180 00:08:26,190 --> 00:08:28,740 John Stensholt: And, yes. You're right. But then again, if you're wealthy 181 00:08:28,740 --> 00:08:30,420 John Stensholt: enough to be on this list, you're probably wealthy enough 182 00:08:30,420 --> 00:08:32,488 John Stensholt: to get some accountants to deal with the ATO too. 183 00:08:32,940 --> 00:08:36,629 Sean Aylmer: That's very true. What about, many people whose wealth dropped 184 00:08:36,630 --> 00:08:38,639 Sean Aylmer: severely during the year? 185 00:08:39,059 --> 00:08:41,490 John Stensholt: Look, I think you find companies that have been in 186 00:08:41,490 --> 00:08:43,559 John Stensholt: industries that are struggling a bit more, like construction for 187 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:48,449 John Stensholt: example. It's been very well newsworthy about how construction companies 188 00:08:48,450 --> 00:08:50,970 John Stensholt: have maybe getting a lot of revenue, but very, very 189 00:08:50,970 --> 00:08:53,759 John Stensholt: hard to make profits. So, you get companies like Hutchinson's 190 00:08:53,759 --> 00:08:55,620 John Stensholt: in Queensland, where it fell off the list, just because 191 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,499 John Stensholt: it's hard going out there for a company like that. 192 00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:00,450 John Stensholt: So, that's the beauty of the list. I think it 193 00:09:00,660 --> 00:09:03,150 John Stensholt: encapsulates what's going on in business. You'll see the ups 194 00:09:03,150 --> 00:09:05,910 John Stensholt: and downs of what's happening on the ASX or others, 195 00:09:06,450 --> 00:09:10,199 John Stensholt: of companies that share prices plunge. Worley's down, so John 196 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:14,070 John Stensholt: Grill's off the list, for example. There's other examples that 197 00:09:14,099 --> 00:09:17,160 John Stensholt: really just shows you what issues there are and what 198 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,250 John Stensholt: fractures there are in business, or the economy, where maybe 199 00:09:20,250 --> 00:09:22,410 John Stensholt: the trends are going upwards as well. It can be 200 00:09:22,410 --> 00:09:24,150 John Stensholt: a bit of a leading indicator and also a lag 201 00:09:24,150 --> 00:09:24,780 John Stensholt: indicator, too. 202 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,170 Sean Aylmer: So, John. You're not allowed to answer " Harry Triguboff" to 203 00:09:28,170 --> 00:09:30,420 Sean Aylmer: this question. You've been doing it a long time. Do 204 00:09:30,420 --> 00:09:32,849 Sean Aylmer: you have someone or a couple of people that you 205 00:09:32,849 --> 00:09:36,659 Sean Aylmer: just really enjoy working with during this process? Because I'm 206 00:09:36,660 --> 00:09:37,949 Sean Aylmer: sure they enjoy it. 207 00:09:38,610 --> 00:09:41,490 John Stensholt: I always like finding the new people. And there's a couple of 208 00:09:41,490 --> 00:09:44,578 John Stensholt: guys out in Sydney, Jason and Elvis Bey, who are 209 00:09:44,580 --> 00:09:48,689 John Stensholt: just a couple of mid- thirties, mid- to-late-thirties guys. They 210 00:09:48,690 --> 00:09:51,630 John Stensholt: own Sydney Tools, which is just like you think about, 211 00:09:51,630 --> 00:09:53,369 John Stensholt: it's a bit of an old- fashioned retail business. But, 212 00:09:53,369 --> 00:09:57,630 John Stensholt: they make $ 800- million revenue, $ 60- million profits. Just good 213 00:09:57,630 --> 00:10:00,390 John Stensholt: down to earth blokes just having a crack and they're 214 00:10:00,390 --> 00:10:03,569 John Stensholt: just doing an amazing job. And they just keep expanding, but 215 00:10:03,570 --> 00:10:07,468 John Stensholt: also running the business well as well. There's a lot 216 00:10:07,469 --> 00:10:11,429 John Stensholt: of discipline behind it, but they're self- made. Their parents 217 00:10:11,429 --> 00:10:13,860 John Stensholt: were tool repairers and they thought, " Well, we don't want 218 00:10:13,860 --> 00:10:15,959 John Stensholt: to repair tools. Let's sell them." And here we are. 219 00:10:17,010 --> 00:10:19,650 Sean Aylmer: John, congratulations on the list. And thank you very much 220 00:10:19,650 --> 00:10:20,819 Sean Aylmer: for talking to Fear & Greed. 221 00:10:21,270 --> 00:10:21,810 John Stensholt: Thanks, Sean. 222 00:10:22,410 --> 00:10:25,499 Sean Aylmer: That was business journalist John Stensholt, Editor of the list, 223 00:10:25,500 --> 00:10:29,759 Sean Aylmer: Australia's Richest 250, out now in the Australian newspaper. This 224 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,250 Sean Aylmer: is the Fear & Greed business interview. Join us every morning 225 00:10:32,250 --> 00:10:35,100 Sean Aylmer: for the full episode of Fear & Greed, Australia's best business 226 00:10:35,100 --> 00:10:37,770 Sean Aylmer: podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.