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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives

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Speaker 1: detective sy aside of life. The average person has never

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Speaker 1: exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.

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Speaker 1: In part two of my chat with Korein Hofstrand, we

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Speaker 1: learn about BDSM clubs, which has been a real eyepner.

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Speaker 1: We talk about managing brothels and the time in prison.

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Speaker 1: We also get her thoughts on drugs and the sex

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Speaker 1: indust and a whole lot more that we talked about. Now,

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Speaker 1: get ready for an insight into a world most people

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Speaker 1: don't get to experience. Corinn Yes, no, I don't worry.

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Speaker 1: This is not the police interview. You don't have to

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Speaker 1: deny that allegation. I'm making no allegations.

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Speaker 2: I deny nothing anyway. I admit everything.

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Speaker 1: So you would have been a great one to interviewed

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Speaker 1: from a cops point of view.

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Speaker 2: I had the best time with the two cops, the

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Speaker 2: two detectives. They were both Look, as I said to

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Speaker 2: you before, I have nothing bad to say about the

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Speaker 2: guys who busted me, the minions, the minions that came

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Speaker 2: in there may had a problem with you, the ones

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Speaker 2: who actually sat me down at Major Crime and talked

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Speaker 2: to me and threatened me and did everything in a

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Speaker 2: nice way. And then when I was in that hell

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Speaker 2: whole called SPC, they came down. I don't know what

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Speaker 2: was happening upstairs. I have no clue who detected who whatever,

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Speaker 2: but one of them, the other guy, came down and

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Speaker 2: he said, Korean, why the fuck didn't you tell me

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Speaker 2: who your father was? I said, what are you going

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Speaker 2: to let me out now? And I was just like,

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Speaker 2: you know, they were really all the way through.

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Speaker 1: Ye. Look, I like it when I hear stories like that,

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Speaker 1: because cops are doing their job as everyone appreciates, and

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Speaker 1: if they're doing it but they're fair. They can they

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Speaker 1: can be hard, but fair.

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Speaker 2: With me.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, clearly you're not a fan of the holding

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Speaker 1: cells at this SPC. But we'll move on. Those that

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Speaker 1: were listening to Part one would have heard about your

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Speaker 1: journey on the way to New York and you got distracted.

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Speaker 1: In Hawaii, you studied to become a nurse, you worked

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Speaker 1: in an ICU unit. You also worked as a waitress

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Speaker 1: and a stripper, and you started dealing drugs on a

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Speaker 1: cruise that you recommend to anyone.

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Speaker 3: Ye seven days America, do it now?

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm not sure if they've still got the drug

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Speaker 1: dealing on that.

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Speaker 2: I don't think they do.

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Speaker 3: I think it's pretty claim warning.

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Speaker 1: You don't go there for the drive, but the actual

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Speaker 1: trip the cruise. So when you came back to Australia,

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Speaker 1: was that when you realized that drugs got hold of it.

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Speaker 1: Chris and Chris and your breaken up with Mark and

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Speaker 1: you started seeing Chris. You met him on the cruise.

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Speaker 1: I think it's important to say here that Chris has

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Speaker 1: never been accused of any wrongdoing. He sent you back

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Speaker 1: and said you just need to sort yourself out.

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Speaker 2: So that was nineteen ninety.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and you've come back here, but you didn't quite

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Speaker 1: sort yourself out.

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Speaker 2: No. I came back here and I lived with my

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Speaker 2: grandmother yep. And so this is early nineteen ninety, like

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Speaker 2: late eighty nine, ninety Christmas basically, and I was working

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Speaker 2: cocktail waitressing, waitressing. I was working in some really good

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Speaker 2: restaurants actually, like Cables of the Regent. I was working

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Speaker 2: at the Clock Hotel in the I had used to

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Speaker 2: have this great steak house downstairs, and a couple of

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Speaker 2: other restaurants up in the Cross that were really good.

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Speaker 2: And through doing that, I started or because I was

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Speaker 2: here by myself, like Chris was still back there and

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Speaker 2: I was here by myself, and I kind of didn't

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Speaker 2: really have a I had girlfriends that I knew, but

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Speaker 2: they kind of weren't in the same scene as me.

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Speaker 2: I was not in any drug scene of any description,

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Speaker 2: but I was because of Chris, in the gay scene.

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Speaker 2: And I then found out about Oxford Street. And then

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Speaker 2: I met who was still one of my friends today,

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Speaker 2: who was the manager of the Albrey. And I met him,

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Speaker 2: and through him, I met other guys and just became

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Speaker 2: a bit of a party scene. Marty grow and Slee's

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Speaker 2: Ball became a thing. And that's when I met Ed,

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Speaker 2: and Ed came over from the United States. This was

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Speaker 2: the start of it. So I was just a normal

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Speaker 2: person doing normal ecstasy like everybody else on Oxford Street.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't trying to find coke because I knew the

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Speaker 2: coke here was crap. So coke was out of my life,

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Speaker 2: gone goodbye. So that this guy, So I was just

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Speaker 2: like buying ecstasy like everybody else was like this. This

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Speaker 2: was the drug of choice. You didn't have to drink

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Speaker 2: with it.

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Speaker 1: That met the needs of the party scene.

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Speaker 2: And it was a clean party scene. It was fun.

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Speaker 2: Everybody was in a good It was called the I

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Speaker 2: Love You Tree drug for a reason, you know. And anyway,

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Speaker 2: so I met this guy named Ed and he'd come

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Speaker 2: over from the United States with I don't know how many,

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Speaker 2: and I was a connection to a lot of friends

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Speaker 2: on Oxford Street who were working because it was Marti

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Speaker 2: Gras and who were working couldn't get off work, and

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Speaker 2: so I'd buy ten for him, ten for him whatever,

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Speaker 2: you know, whatever they needed. And Ed got to know

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Speaker 2: me through that, and so anyway it went on. I

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Speaker 2: was just you know, we went to Mardi Gras, and

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Speaker 2: then I.

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Speaker 1: Was again that sort of you just start off, you're

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Speaker 1: enjoying the scene, you're using, and then it became available

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Speaker 1: to you started selling it. All of a sudden, you

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Speaker 1: find yourself as a drug dealer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah because of Ed. Yeah, well I'm blaming it because

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Speaker 2: he's the one that sent them over to me.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: So he was from the United States, and we were

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Speaker 2: sitting out the front of what used to be a

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Speaker 2: cafe on the corner of Crown and Oxford Street, and

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Speaker 2: it was now it's a little seven to eleven, and

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Speaker 2: we were sitting on the steps out of it, high

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Speaker 2: as a kite on ecstasy. And he said to me, Karin,

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Speaker 2: if I sent you over three hundred ecstasy a week,

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Speaker 2: would you send me the money back. I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: sureuse I will a kite on your ekis of course

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do that for you. Yep, no problem,

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Speaker 2: thinking it's just ecstasy post Mardi Gras talk. This was

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Speaker 2: a Sunday morning after you right, So I went home

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Speaker 2: on the Tuesday, or whenever I got home, and I

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Speaker 2: said to Chris, you know, Ed said to me, he's

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Speaker 2: going to send over you know whatever, yeah, yeah, la

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Speaker 2: la la, you know, a talk talk talk. So about

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Speaker 2: a week later I get a phone call from the

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Speaker 2: United States from Ed and he goes, okay, so I

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Speaker 2: need you to go to Bondo Junction post Office or

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Speaker 2: Bondo Post Office post A Restonte under this name and

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Speaker 2: this name being whatever it was, and you're going to

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Speaker 2: take this letter saying you are who you are, and

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Speaker 2: you have the the authority to pick this up. And

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Speaker 2: there's going to be six macadamia nut canisters, right, okay,

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Speaker 2: all right, yeah whatever post a post a Restonte is

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Speaker 2: and they still have it to this day. I didn't

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Speaker 2: think they still had it, but they do. And it

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Speaker 2: is where people who don't live here. So say, for instance,

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Speaker 2: you're in America and you want to send something here

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Speaker 2: to yourself, right, and you've got no address here, your

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Speaker 2: holidaying over there, but your flat you don't have a

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Speaker 2: flat ear and so you need to get this delivered somewhere.

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Speaker 2: So it's delivered to post Averstonte kind of like those

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Speaker 2: postbox I suppose now I don't know, but in the

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Speaker 2: day it used to be you could send something to

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Speaker 2: post A Restonte. So what Ed used to do was

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Speaker 2: he would body up a name, So say Julie Smith

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Speaker 2: and he'd go use the name Julie Smith. So I

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Speaker 2: would go to whatever post office, and I went to

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Speaker 2: every post office in the eastern suburbs and I would

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Speaker 2: go and say right out, I Julie Smith, give Kareingo

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Speaker 2: Hofstrand the okay or whatever to pick up my package

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Speaker 2: and then sign it.

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Speaker 3: And that was and in those days you could do

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Speaker 3: that because you.

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Speaker 2: Didn't have a photo ID. You just had ID and

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Speaker 2: it didn't even happen.

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Speaker 1: It was a simpler time, a simpler time.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And so I go and pick it up, bring

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Speaker 2: it home. We were living on Stanley Street and I'm

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Speaker 2: opening them and you know when you open cans, they go,

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Speaker 2: So I'm opening them and I'm going, yeah, whatever. And

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Speaker 2: we get to like the third or fourth one and

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Speaker 2: we go and tip it out and it's only like

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Speaker 2: this full of Macademian nuts and the rest is ecstasy.

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Speaker 2: He has done the perfect job of ceiling that back

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Speaker 2: and there was three hundred ecstasy in there. And so

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Speaker 2: that's how.

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Speaker 1: It's And how often would this take place.

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Speaker 2: It took place about once every two weeks. And he

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Speaker 2: would send it in so many different things, like it'd

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Speaker 2: be a chocolate box.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and everything was mixing, was mixing it.

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Speaker 2: Up all the time, and every time he did it,

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Speaker 2: and like, okay, so for instance, say this was not true,

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Speaker 2: but say it was one of those fantails things that

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Speaker 2: you get the favorites. But the ceilant on the plastic

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Speaker 2: was like it had never been opened. He was a

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Speaker 2: brilliant person at doing these repackaging. I have no clue

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Speaker 2: how he did it. And then every couple of weeks

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Speaker 2: after that, I'd send him back. I'd go to different banks,

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Speaker 2: and I'd send him back when I got to that

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Speaker 2: point nine dollars because keeping it under the ten thousand slightly.

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Speaker 1: Flagger exactly right, Okay, did you appreciate that's this and

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Speaker 1: you started to roll in the money? I would imagine

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Speaker 1: when this. Did you appreciate how deep you were getting

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Speaker 1: into what you were getting? Did you even think about

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Speaker 1: the consequences? Did you like the drugs that you're dealing?

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Speaker 1: Did you worry about the harm? Was it okay?

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Speaker 2: Because and as I said in my statement to the

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Speaker 2: judge when I was sentenced, I was dealing ecstasy, a

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Speaker 2: dance party drug, and LSD right because his brother had

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Speaker 2: bought over all these LSD which were terrible, which ended

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Speaker 2: up sitting in my drawer, which they ended up finding anyway,

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Speaker 2: they found it. Whatever, two people over the age of

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Speaker 2: twenty one or at least over the age of eighteen,

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Speaker 2: who were in a scene being the gay scene of

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Speaker 2: Oxford Street. I was not standing at a kindergarten gate

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Speaker 2: selling heroin.

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Speaker 3: And that's how I.

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Speaker 2: Felt about it. I didn't feel I had felt absolutely

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Speaker 2: no remorse about selling ecstasy because it wasn't a bad

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Speaker 2: drug in those days, not now, not talking about now,

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Speaker 2: not condoning that now, But in those days, you couldn't

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Speaker 2: get anything more pure as a drug, as a party

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Speaker 2: drug that you only had to do a half of

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Speaker 2: to do eight hours of fun with no alcohol, with

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Speaker 2: a chopper chop in your mouth and a lemonade and

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Speaker 2: go to Marty Grreslea's ball or any of the dance

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Speaker 2: parties that were on every Friday and Saturday night.

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Speaker 1: You didn't see there's any any harm? No, right, No,

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Speaker 1: Did you understand that how the law would come down

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Speaker 1: on you. Did you understand that you're now in the

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Speaker 1: international drug deal?

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Speaker 2: Yes? But I was never charged with international Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: but that was the good thing.

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Speaker 1: Did that did it weigh on your mind.

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Speaker 2: If you're a drug dealer and you don't have that

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Speaker 2: in the back of your head at every minute of

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Speaker 2: every day, you're an idiot. Don't care how far up

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Speaker 2: the chain you are. And I was just a dance

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Speaker 2: party drug dealer who had the Oxford Street bartenders working

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Speaker 2: for me. Every bartender on Oxford Street was working for me.

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Speaker 2: I dropped ten a day into each bartender, one bartender

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Speaker 2: or shift, and they would sell ten, they'd get one free.

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Speaker 2: I'd go back down during the night pick up because

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Speaker 2: the tenant go like that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, how did you get into that? You said? It

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Speaker 1: was sent.

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Speaker 2: Because ED got me into it. Ed because it was

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Speaker 2: apparently something that was happening in the States. Yep, right,

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Speaker 2: and so this is like not.

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Speaker 1: On do you drug deal or say to each other, Hey,

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Speaker 1: this is good shit.

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Speaker 2: Well yes, basically basically he said to me, I think,

246
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Speaker 2: but from memory, it was a phone call. He said

247
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Speaker 2: to me, there's this new stuff going around and it

248
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Speaker 2: is actually just horse tranquilizer, but it's taken in conjunction

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Speaker 2: with an ecstasy because it puts you in a k hole,

250
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Speaker 2: and the k hole you really do kind of lose

251
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Speaker 2: lose everything. So everybody at dance parties would have like

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Speaker 2: a scarf or something, not a scarf, but a tie

253
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Speaker 2: of some description of four pieces of four square and

254
00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,120
Speaker 2: they'd have it in their mouths like that. So you

255
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Speaker 2: all went down the K hole together because you literally

256
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,520
Speaker 2: felt like you were going down the K hole. And

257
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Speaker 2: then you've got the ecstasy on top of it. But anyway,

258
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Speaker 2: you only ever did a little bump. It wasn't like

259
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Speaker 2: a line. It was just a little bump and you

260
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Speaker 2: just went I used to call it the snap, crackle

261
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Speaker 2: and pop drug because you just felt like whee, you know.

262
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,560
Speaker 2: And he sent it over to me and he said, okay,

263
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,960
Speaker 2: so this is the chemical formula. You put this much

264
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Speaker 2: in to make this much whatever. He sent me over

265
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Speaker 2: the bouch and lawn borels and I cooked it up

266
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Speaker 2: and I told everybody because a gram was two hundred

267
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Speaker 2: dollars now ninety ninety one. Two hundred dollars was a

268
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Speaker 2: lot of money. Like ecstasies were only fifty bucks, so

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Speaker 2: this was this was an investment, you know. I think

270
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,120
Speaker 2: coke was about the same, but this was a new

271
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Speaker 2: drug and so we could charge that much. And I

272
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Speaker 2: used to say to everybody who came in to try

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Speaker 2: it into my house at twenty five West Street in Bandington.

274
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Speaker 2: I used to say, just do a bump like this. No,

275
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Speaker 2: don't listen to Quinn. Don't listen to quin. Let's just

276
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Speaker 2: do a line like we do coke because I'm so

277
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Speaker 2: experienced at what I do. And then they'd be stuck

278
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Speaker 2: in my house for two or three hours at a

279
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Speaker 2: time because they were down that k hole. That was

280
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Speaker 2: sweet and you couldn't go anywhere, you know.

281
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Speaker 1: Break the night, damn them. Okay. And you think that

282
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,120
Speaker 1: was the that was when it was first came in

283
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Speaker 1: to Australia.

284
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was the first because I wasn't busted for it.

285
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Speaker 2: They didn't know about it.

286
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:12,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.

287
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,040
Speaker 2: I didn't know about it. And Michael, my lawyer, I

288
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:17,920
Speaker 2: came down and said, you're the first person I know

289
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,640
Speaker 2: that hasn't even been hasn't even gone to court yet,

290
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,240
Speaker 2: and has had two laws changed because the MDMA thirteen

291
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,280
Speaker 2: Dust twelve law changed. I mean, I'm pulling those numbers, transitor.

292
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Speaker 1: I was, Yeah, okay, I always looked at it. You

293
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,320
Speaker 1: put it, You put a lot of trust in people

294
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Speaker 1: that you're working with, as in you dealing with the

295
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,560
Speaker 1: drugs and all that, because in my experience with police,

296
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Speaker 1: you catch one person that's shitting themselves and they go,

297
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,520
Speaker 1: I'll tell you who the dealer is, and that that's

298
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Speaker 1: pretty easy investigation.

299
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Speaker 3: The follow up once.

300
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Speaker 2: But how I got caught was I was put in

301
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Speaker 2: by In those days, they had a thing called dubin

302
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Speaker 2: a dealer.

303
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Speaker 1: I worked on that in early stage as in my

304
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Speaker 1: police career. Maybe maybe, but this is right at last.

305
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,440
Speaker 2: So that's how I got caught, and I got I

306
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,440
Speaker 2: knew that from one of these two detectives that were

307
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,000
Speaker 2: the good detectives.

308
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,680
Speaker 1: Just to let me, let me explain what Dobbin the

309
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:18,320
Speaker 1: Dealer was it was, and I disc well, it's still

310
00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,120
Speaker 1: still runs in some form today.

311
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,160
Speaker 2: But then it was advertised on TV.

312
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,400
Speaker 1: But yeah, they did a real promotion. And that's where

313
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,800
Speaker 1: you just got dragged in from everywhere and we're literally

314
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,960
Speaker 1: bank of telephones. It was like a telephone exactly. It

315
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,960
Speaker 1: was literally like that, and people are just phane up

316
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,600
Speaker 1: and say, this person's been selling drugs at this address

317
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,440
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and we gal all the information and

318
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Speaker 1: that's how you go.

319
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Speaker 2: It was another dealer who did it.

320
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Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad I didn't waste my time going there

321
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,440
Speaker 1: that day. I wasn't sure if there was any arrests

322
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,240
Speaker 1: that came from that, but well that's another risk that

323
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Speaker 1: you take.

324
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Speaker 2: So the other drug dealer who I know, and I

325
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,040
Speaker 2: always say, revenge is a better dish serve cold, but

326
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,840
Speaker 2: it's very cold right now because I I'll haven't done it,

327
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,399
Speaker 2: but I know who it was because he went and

328
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,639
Speaker 2: mouthed off after and I had more friends on Oxford

329
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,159
Speaker 2: Street than he did, and so they all told me

330
00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:16,359
Speaker 2: that he'd mouthed off up after it, right, And so

331
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Speaker 2: that Dobin Adler was the only thing that brought me down.

332
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:21,520
Speaker 2: It wasn't any of the guys.

333
00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:21,959
Speaker 1: Then.

334
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:26,480
Speaker 2: What happened was they apparently so they always ran that

335
00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,080
Speaker 2: in the May. For some reason, I had a certain

336
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,520
Speaker 2: weekend they did it, so they had a month of

337
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,560
Speaker 2: surveillance because I wasn't busted till June eighth. And apparently

338
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:38,800
Speaker 2: I lived on West Street, which a very small street

339
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Speaker 2: in Paddington, and so there's I lived in a terrace house.

340
00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:46,359
Speaker 2: There's terrace houses across the road, terrace houses everywhere. And

341
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,720
Speaker 2: apparently they'd got the okay from the terrace house across

342
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:54,119
Speaker 2: the road to do surveillance to my bedroom, which was

343
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,960
Speaker 2: the top bedroom, which I had no qualms about sitting

344
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,960
Speaker 2: there counting my extasy because there was nobody around.

345
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:08,199
Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm just sitting in there game again with the binoculars.

346
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,040
Speaker 2: And I had draw as I said, I had draws

347
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,440
Speaker 2: of LSD because the LSD was crap and I didn't

348
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,800
Speaker 2: sell it. It was just there. They came across it

349
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:17,120
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh my god. I didn't even

350
00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:22,280
Speaker 2: realize I was there anymore. And then so they came in.

351
00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,280
Speaker 2: So they had this month long surveillance. Apparently they came

352
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,160
Speaker 2: in at seven o'clock in the morning. When I say

353
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,359
Speaker 2: seven o'clock could have been seven thirty. I was up

354
00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,400
Speaker 2: in the top bathroom. I lived with three guys, Chris

355
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,320
Speaker 2: and two other gay guys who were a couple, and

356
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:41,239
Speaker 2: I thought it was one of them wanting to use

357
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,800
Speaker 2: the bathroom. And I was in my pink flamingo pajamas

358
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,359
Speaker 2: and I said just and they knocked at the door

359
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,800
Speaker 2: and they said get out now, and I said, just

360
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,520
Speaker 2: hold on a minute, guys, and they said it's the police.

361
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:53,760
Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, I got to clean the

362
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,600
Speaker 2: teeth anyway, so they're saying, now, so I just put

363
00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,760
Speaker 2: some toothpaste on my thing. And then they held the

364
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,600
Speaker 2: warrand up in front of me, the search warrant, and

365
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,400
Speaker 2: for some reason, although somebody corrected me on TikTok, for

366
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:11,639
Speaker 2: some reason they they I thought it said a year,

367
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,720
Speaker 2: that they had a warrant for a year, but somebody

368
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,080
Speaker 2: said no, it had to be a day or forty

369
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:22,480
Speaker 2: eight hours or something whatever it was. Anyway, the date

370
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,359
Speaker 2: was wrong. So it was the seventh of June. It

371
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 2: was dated, and this was the eighth of June. So

372
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,119
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, no, it's dated. I said to him, it's

373
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,800
Speaker 2: stated wrong, it's the seventh of June. Yeah, I'm thinking yes.

374
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,439
Speaker 2: But anyway, then he explained it to me and I

375
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,800
Speaker 2: was like, okay, well whatever. So then we all sat around.

376
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,880
Speaker 2: There was people there from the night before. I was

377
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,320
Speaker 2: in bed, but there was people from there from the

378
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,119
Speaker 2: night before. So I'm walking around the house with them, right,

379
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 2: and we will go out. So we've gone from the

380
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 2: front to the back of the house, and in the

381
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,440
Speaker 2: back of the house, in the oven there was special K.

382
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,919
Speaker 2: So then not special K as in the the not

383
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,439
Speaker 2: the corn flakes so they are opened they'd seen. I

384
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,679
Speaker 2: don't know what they saw, but they opened up the

385
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,439
Speaker 2: oven obviously because they're opening up everything, and they're like,

386
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,640
Speaker 2: what's this. And I had been cooking it the night

387
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 2: before and turned it off and left it there because

388
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,119
Speaker 2: it had to cool down anyway. And so I because

389
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 2: that's the kind of trust I had with everybody, like

390
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 2: I didn't. It was nothing to me that there's like

391
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,600
Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars worth of special K sitting in.

392
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 1: The oven and the special K kem.

393
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,240
Speaker 2: Ketm and so they said to me, what's that and

394
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,800
Speaker 2: I said it's special K and they said, what like

395
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 2: the corn flakes? I said, no, like the ketamine that

396
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 2: you give horses. It's a dance party drug. And they

397
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,199
Speaker 2: went all right, okay. So I was the first person

398
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 2: in Australia to be busted with ketamine. And so they

399
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 2: changed the law to make ketamine illegal. So the kenemine

400
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 2: that I had, I couldn't be busted for right, And

401
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,640
Speaker 2: so in those days, it's funny when I go in

402
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 2: those days. In those days, we didn't have mobile phones

403
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 2: and we had answering machines, and so the answering machine,

404
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 2: my answering machine was always on volume on. I suppose

405
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 2: thinking back, I think you could have it on volume off.

406
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,880
Speaker 2: I can't remember, but I think you could. But anyway,

407
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,120
Speaker 2: so while they were there, because it was a queen's

408
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 2: birthday weekend and everybody was coming to get their drugs

409
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,439
Speaker 2: or alternatively wanted to order them, there came through, like

410
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 2: in the time, like twenty calls and it was like Korean,

411
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 2: are you there, Korean? I need to pick it up Korean.

412
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,719
Speaker 2: Then we were all just laughing really because it was

413
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,879
Speaker 2: just ridiculous. So what they did, apparently again I don't know,

414
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 2: was they went back and traced the calls to whatever

415
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:54,119
Speaker 2: phone number it was.

416
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:56,400
Speaker 1: That's probably what they did.

417
00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 2: So anyway, and Ed was hand I was not handcuffed.

418
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 1: At all, Pink Flamingo, but they let me change.

419
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,119
Speaker 2: It was about two o'clock in the afternoon. Ed was

420
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 2: still handcuffed to the bottom of the stairs. It was

421
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 2: to terrace, you know, and he had had an accident

422
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 2: because he was so scared. And I was actually as

423
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 2: cool as a cucumber. When they took us down to

424
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,679
Speaker 2: Major Case across from SPC on that little road that

425
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 2: goes down to Central. I'm sure you know it well,

426
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 2: when they took me in there, they'd gone through my

427
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 2: house like literally, and I was at one desk and

428
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 2: Chris was at another desk, and all of a sudden,

429
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,199
Speaker 2: I see this thing come down in front of my

430
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 2: face and it is a storage locker receipt. And whoever

431
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 2: was standing behind me said what's this? And I said

432
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 2: it's a storage locker receipt and I said, I said, yeah, right,

433
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 2: and he said and it's dated, say, the twenty third

434
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 2: of June. I said yeah, but I don't have anything

435
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 2: in there anymore. And he goes, why don't we go

436
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:04,640
Speaker 2: and find out?

437
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:05,919
Speaker 1: I didn't trust you.

438
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 2: I didn't trust me, I tell you. So anyway, they

439
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,719
Speaker 2: get the search warrant. We're in the car. I'm in

440
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 2: the car with the two detectives, and one turns around

441
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 2: to me and goes, what the fuck are we going

442
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 2: to find in that storage locker? Career? And tell us now.

443
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 2: So we're driving along Darlinghurst Road down to Boundary Street

444
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 2: where the storage locker was, and Ed was in another car.

445
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 2: Chris was still back at the major case and I said, okay,

446
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 2: can we just stop for a packet of cigarettes? And

447
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 2: I'll tell you maulburh read soft pack, thanks, because they

448
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,880
Speaker 2: sold soft pack in those days. So one of them

449
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:51,719
Speaker 2: got out on the corner of Darling Hert Liverpool Street

450
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 2: and Darling her Throats and got a packet of cigarettes

451
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 2: and I said, okay, so what you're going to find

452
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 2: is about one hundred thousand dollars in cash, about four

453
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 2: one hundred ecstasies, and about one thousand hits of LSTO.

454
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 1: Yep.

455
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 2: What they I didn't say anything about were the two

456
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 2: bottles of Boush and Lomb which were what you put

457
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 2: in contact lenses, which was still were there, which I

458
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 2: didn't know at the time they weren't going to bust

459
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 2: me for because it wasn't illegal. I had no clue.

460
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 2: But that was the liquid form of special K. So

461
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 2: when we went down to the storage locker, they waited

462
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 2: for Ed to come in in his handcuffs and me

463
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 2: without handcuffs, and the manager of the storage locker. So

464
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 2: there's all these cops there. There's a search warrant there,

465
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 2: and I said, oh, how's tod they going? He goes, Oh,

466
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 2: it's a bit slow. I said, not anymore, huh. So Anyway,

467
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 2: they snapped the lock and I went this, this, this,

468
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 2: and this, and then they left.

469
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: Your time in prison. How long did you get sentenced for? Three?

470
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 2: It was three years eight months on the top, two

471
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 2: and a half years in jail.

472
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: Okay.

473
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: My lawyer came down after and I was sentenced to

474
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 2: King Streets Courts, and my lawyer came down and he went, oh,

475
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:02,719
Speaker 2: my god, Karen, I thought you were going to get

476
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 2: seven to ten. He said, I was sure you were

477
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 2: going to get ten.

478
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: It was pretty pretty lenient.

479
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 2: Yes, it was. Well, it was Judge More and in

480
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 2: the day they used to say get more, get less.

481
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 2: So my lawyer followed his circuit until we got Judge

482
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 2: More and then they I went to two. I pleaded

483
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 2: guilty at committal, right, and then I went to two

484
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 2: sentencing because the first sentencing they said this woman had

485
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 2: millions and millions and millions of dollars worth of ecstasy

486
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 2: in LSD. And he said stop right there, and he

487
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 2: said how many millions? And the prosecution didn't know, and

488
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 2: the prosecution said, well, the chemists. This is the chemist report. Yeah,

489
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 2: but it says no amount of millions. And unless you

490
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 2: come back to me in seven days with the correct

491
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 2: amount of millions, I'm letting this woman walk from court, right,

492
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 2: so this is Judge Moore to get judge more. This

493
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 2: has get more, get less and anyway, So it was

494
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,360
Speaker 2: about seven to ten days I went back and they'd

495
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 2: gotten it down to one million and thirty thousand dollars

496
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 2: worth of ecstasy in LSD. Yep, that's what I was

497
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 2: busted with sentence, and that's what I was sentenced for.

498
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 2: And that's when I went down to the cells and

499
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 2: I said what was the bottom sentence? And the sheriff

500
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 2: so two and a half years, and I said great,

501
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 2: And in my head, I'm thinking that's too Marti Grau

502
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 2: and one sleeves ball.

503
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 1: That's all that was your mindset at the time.

504
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 2: It's all I thought.

505
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: Looking back, Now, does that show the state that you're in? That?

506
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 2: Yeah? That was Yeah, of course it does. But see

507
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 2: this is thirteen months. I've already been in JAF for

508
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 2: thirteen months by this time, and I still had that mindset.

509
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I'm missing.

510
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 2: What I'm missing out on. Not that I wanted to

511
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 2: get back on the drugs, not that I wanted to

512
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 2: do another ecstasy, not that I wanted to get back

513
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 2: into the scene, but that's what I'm going to miss

514
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 2: out on party wise, right, you know what I mean?

515
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 2: Like it wasn't about doing another reki. I could do

516
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 2: another reki anytime I wanted to, even in jail. You know,

517
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 2: if you really wanted to, you'd find that you.

518
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 1: Could get it. But it's not how is jar? Was

519
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: it scary for you? Like it's you're hanging out with

520
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: the dance scene and party scene and all that, friends people,

521
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: good people around Oxford Street.

522
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 3: Then you end up with murderers.

523
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, we scared.

524
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 2: I was scared shitless in SPC and the first night

525
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 2: in Conlin. So you go into Malowa which is now

526
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 2: called silver Water, but you go into Mulowah and the

527
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 2: first place you go to other than Reception where I

528
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 2: ended up working five weeks later, And even though I

529
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 2: wasn't a trustee, you end up where all of the

530
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 2: heroin atticts of Sydney who have had warrants and they've

531
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 2: been arrested on their warrants and are doing ten days

532
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 2: or they're doing three months or two months, are all

533
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 2: coming down and it is hell. It is absolute screaming hell.

534
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 2: And I was in a cell by myself because I

535
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 2: came in quite late at night and I was in

536
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 2: a cell by myself, and I thought, Okay, how am

537
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 2: I going to deal with this? In my head like

538
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 2: still not knowing what's going on. So the next morning

539
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 2: I came out and I just shook everybody's hand and

540
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 2: I went, Hi, how are you on Korean? I've just

541
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,199
Speaker 2: been busting for d You know, I had to. I

542
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 2: had to get on top because I had no clue

543
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 2: who these people were.

544
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 1: And wouldn't know how to surviving.

545
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 2: No, So I got along with everybody. And then a

546
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 2: week later my father came out for a visit and

547
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: a country practice.

548
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 3: Was really big watching it, and they were the word.

549
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 2: Got around, came back down into Conlin all of a sudden,

550
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you're Bob Hatfeld's daughter. Why didn't you

551
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 2: tell us? You know, a la lie, you know all

552
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 2: these methodonies. I'm going go in, Yeah, your mom hat Fields, Dawner.

553
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 2: I was in with three hundred of them, And so

554
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: then it got to the screws, obviously because they were

555
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 2: up there visits with me, and it got to the

556
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 2: screw So then the screw started doing this, you know,

557
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 2: thinking I'm better than anybody else, like just poking me

558
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: all the time. Like poking the bear, and I said,

559
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,479
Speaker 2: so I'm still in Conlin. Dad's been to visit, so

560
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 2: it's already out. Dad came to visit another once before

561
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 2: I was sentenced. He came out after Supreme Court bar.

562
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 2: That's right, because he didn't he was going to do

563
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 2: Supreme Court bar for me and then pulled it on me.

564
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: Another story. We won't go there anyway. So the other

565
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 2: time he came out, I knew he was coming out,

566
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: so I said to everybody, Dad's coming out for a

567
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: visit next Saturday. So all of a sudden, a whole

568
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 2: heap of people have visits. Because what the screws were

569
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 2: doing on the visits was when Gordon was there and

570
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 2: with carin, they were wandering up to say hello to Gordon,

571
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 2: make sure everything was okay. So everybody down this end

572
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 2: and having big kisses and big drops. So all the

573
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: drops were going on over this.

574
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: Let's break that down. They worked out, and I suppose

575
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: this is a cunniness of being kept crims that okay,

576
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: when Bob's coming, the screws are going to be so.

577
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: Their first phone calls to their girlfriend because they were

578
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 2: all lesbians, Like I'm talking really literally, all lesbians and

579
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 2: they're all coming out. You're not allowed to kiss number one,

580
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 2: number two, the screws are all with Gordon. So we're

581
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 2: kissing and we're dropping and then all of a sudden,

582
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 2: it's vomiting in Conland, like all the stuff, all the stuff.

583
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 2: So that was wild, But anyway, they kept pushing me.

584
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 2: They kept doing this. So I was in Conland for

585
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 2: about five weeks. Now, usually you're in Conlin until you

586
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 2: at least go to committal. Well I hadn't even been

587
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 2: to Supreme Court Bale, but they knew that I was

588
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 2: Gordon Piper's daughter. But they still kept doing this. And

589
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 2: I said to one of them, I said, you keep

590
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,719
Speaker 2: doing this. I said, I get one phone call a week,

591
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 2: and that one phone call can go in those days

592
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 2: to the Sun, to the Daily Mirror, to Channel seven

593
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 2: or Channel nine. You pick which one you want me

594
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: to go to, because I will. And so all of

595
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 2: a sudden I'm working in reception. That's a trustees job.

596
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: The girl I worked with had been in jail for

597
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 2: four years. People that worked in those kind of jobs

598
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 2: had been four and five years in jail at least.

599
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 2: And I'm there four weeks, five weeks, and I'm up

600
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 2: there at reception and also I'm in stage two. I'm

601
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 2: in my own cell in stage two in five weeks

602
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: because they want to shut me up. Because there's nothing

603
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,719
Speaker 2: worse than a screw that works in a women's stale. Nothing.

604
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've come out pretty strongly about that. That was

605
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: your experience.

606
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 2: My experience with women's jails is all the money is

607
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 2: given to men's chaild. Yeah, there's no money given to

608
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 2: women's jails. The girl that I worked with in reception, Leanne,

609
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 2: she started the first aerobics class. She was given the

610
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 2: right to work in some bloody probably hallway. I never

611
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 2: went to the classes, but hallway to give the girls

612
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: exercise because there was no exercise at men's jails. They've

613
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 2: got weights, they've got whatever they've got.

614
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: You've brought up something that I've got to say I

615
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: was naive to before I've started this, and speaking to

616
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: some women that had been in prison, Like when we

617
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: talk prisoners, we think men's prison like all the issues

618
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: or as any issues, it's generally something that's happened in

619
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: the men's prison. And I do take on board what

620
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: you're saying that women's inmates get neglected.

621
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. I have nothing. There's one screw out

622
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: of all the screws that I could say I actually liked,

623
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 2: and the rest treated every girl in there like pieces

624
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: of shit. And I used to do. They have things

625
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,959
Speaker 2: in jail called Bluey's. Bluey is a piece of paper

626
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 2: that's blue and it is address and it's addressed to

627
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: the governor, so the head of the jail that you're in,

628
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,959
Speaker 2: So it's addressed to the governor and it's I care

629
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 2: in gay Hofstrand would like an extra pair of pants

630
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 2: because might have worn out whatever, or alternatively, ikering gay

631
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 2: Hostrand would would require a legal aid lawyer because minds

632
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:53,479
Speaker 2: just dropped me. Could be anything, could be anything. So

633
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: I used to do the blue eyes for the girls

634
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 2: because I was in reception. I saw girls all the

635
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 2: time because they come up for stuff right. And we

636
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 2: were also the best dressed wing because I could get

637
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 2: everything from reception.

638
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: But is there a best dressed There is stressed.

639
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 2: Wing because we got the new greens and also we

640
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 2: got lighters which we couldn't have, and also we got

641
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 2: perfumes from the Colombian drug mules that came through and

642
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 2: had bought perfumes and you knew they were going to

643
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: be in for twenty years. So Leanne and I go

644
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 2: through the bags because that was our job, going through

645
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 2: the bags and documenting everything. So we'd get the perfume

646
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 2: put that down too, so we smelt really nice too,

647
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 2: and just have to hide it on master days, you know.

648
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 2: So I used to when the girls came up and go,

649
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,919
Speaker 2: oh God, this has happened. Whatever, I'll go, I'll write

650
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 2: a bloey for you. And the screws hated me for

651
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 2: it because these are girls that were heroin addicts, that

652
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 2: were on methadone supplied by the state right, who didn't

653
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 2: know even how to spell half the time. So I

654
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 2: would write them out and they would at them in

655
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: and they knew it was me because it was my writing,

656
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: and they hated me for it. I did two for

657
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 2: two girls who got out on appeal. I did their

658
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 2: appeal bluies, and the screws just hated me. The screws

659
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 2: absolutely hated me because in jail also they can control

660
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 2: the heroin addicts because they give them methodone if you're

661
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 2: not on heroin. And I went in there drinking a

662
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: bottle of Stolies a day because I was up.

663
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: All night Runner vodka.

664
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: Dolly's Russian vodka. So I do double stolies on the

665
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 2: rocks with a splash of line. And every time I

666
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 2: walked into any club in Oxford Street, that drinkerd be

667
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 2: waiting for me, right, because that's how it was. But

668
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 2: I wasn't a drug dealer, but anyway, so I went

669
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 2: in drinking a bottle of alcohol to day. Now, coming

670
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 2: down from a bottle of alcoholiday is a lot. But

671
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 2: you're not on heroin. So therefore, no, we don't do

672
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: anything for you. And it's like girls who you know,

673
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 2: have gone through domestic violence and coming down from the

674
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 2: PTSD of that. None, we've got nothing for you. We've

675
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 2: only got something for the heroin addicts. We can give

676
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 2: you methadone because the state supplies it, but we can't

677
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 2: supply you with a psychiatrist for your PTSD. We can't

678
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:22,720
Speaker 2: supply you with alcoholics, an alcoholic counselor with your alcoholism. Nothing.

679
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 2: So no, I got nothing good to say.

680
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 1: Okay, what years were you in prison?

681
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 2: Ninety one to ninety three?

682
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: Okay, look, hopefully it's improved.

683
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 2: Well, hopefully it has, But then again I've seen people

684
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 2: talking and it doesn't seem like it's improved that much.

685
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 2: Again with women's prisons, don't know about men's prison in them.

686
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,760
Speaker 1: Look, I'm happy to say that in the my knowledge

687
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,720
Speaker 1: of it, I think they're probably. Yeah, the focus hasn't

688
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 1: been on what goes on in women women's prison because

689
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: the attention goes to the men's prison. So yeah, it's

690
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: about valid point.

691
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and something has to be done. I mean, you've

692
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 2: got three hundred women on their period at the same time.

693
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 2: Imagine what that's like.

694
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: That's all because you've been living together.

695
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 2: It just happens normally in people's cycles throughout life. It

696
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 2: doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter what you're doing.

697
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 2: But three hundred women also happened together at the same time,

698
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 2: and nothing's being done there is. There's nothing good that

699
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 2: I can say about a women's prison. Nothing good because

700
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: unless they've changed radically in thirty years, which I very

701
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: much doubt because the men's prisons seem to get all

702
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 2: the attention, then I think this women are going through

703
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 2: exactly the same thing. The only thing that's changed is

704
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,919
Speaker 2: the area. Like now Park Lee, which used to be

705
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 2: a young offenders prison, is now a women's prison. And

706
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 2: the normal Parka which was at North Parramatta, which was

707
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 2: the minimum security is now EMU Planes, which in my

708
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 2: day EMU Planes was a male minimum security.

709
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 1: So moved it round. Yeah, you got to prison, you

710
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: got picked up in the car. And what was the

711
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: song I read in the notes?

712
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 2: Everyone's Free to Feel Good?

713
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: That was It must have come from your TikTok that

714
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: describe it well, I got because I should browse that

715
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,439
Speaker 1: you're saying, you've been in prison for a reason, stop

716
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: complaining about prison, and then you've been released, and we're

717
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: going to preface this that we would have a laugh

718
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 1: at some things. What was the song that you played

719
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 1: when you were released from prison?

720
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 2: I got First of all, I had a limousine picked

721
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 2: me up with two friends and Chris right, and I

722
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 2: had sent them a tape like because it was a

723
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 2: minimum security, we had more access to people, and so

724
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 2: Chris had come out or somebody had come out and

725
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 2: got this tape from me, and it was on replay

726
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 2: Everybody's Free to Feel Good by Roseanne, which was really

727
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 2: big at the time. I had a seven hundred dollars

728
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,800
Speaker 2: Carlos and Patty suit on and one of the screws said,

729
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 2: And I was talking to her like the week before,

730
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 2: and she said to me, I said, oh, yeah, so

731
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 2: I've got this coming. And you know, I didn't tell

732
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 2: him about the music. I got this coming, and I've

733
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 2: got this Carlors and Patty suit. And she said, yeah,

734
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,280
Speaker 2: we had a girl in here who had a limousine

735
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,879
Speaker 2: pull up, but she had class. I said, what unlike you?

736
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,879
Speaker 1: Ah? Right, So still having digs with each other.

737
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 2: Still, And when you leave prison, you get an opportunity

738
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 2: in your parole statements, you get an opportunity to complain

739
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 2: about whatever is wrong. And I made like a five

740
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 2: page complaint about certain screws. Where that went. Who knows

741
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 2: who cares? At least I got it out of me.

742
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 2: But still to this day I hate them.

743
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: But no, this is the beauty of a podcast. You

744
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: I want to hear your story.

745
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 2: No, it's just people need to put more money into

746
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 2: women's prisons. Into story. I'm sure it's the same nationwide.

747
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 2: I'm not sure it's not just New South Wales, you know,

748
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's worldwide because there's more male criminals than

749
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 2: there are females.

750
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: I definitely I think there's been that neglect there. I'm

751
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 1: just going through the notes, and let's let's find the

752
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: easiest subject. A new job opportunity working in BDSM club No.

753
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 2: Not clubs in okay.

754
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: Explain you just take it from here, because this is

755
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: going to be an interesting discussion.

756
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 2: So when I got out, I decided that I wanted

757
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 2: to work in bondage and discipline. I had done some

758
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 2: because of my stripping, I had done some full service work,

759
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 2: and I had friends who were doing bondage and discipline,

760
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 2: And there was a couple of clubs around there. They're

761
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 2: not clubs, they're actually salons. So there's only one now

762
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 2: still working, but there was three at the time, right So,

763
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 2: and then they had parties. There was parties everywhere, but

764
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 2: these were actual play is where people who didn't know

765
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 2: anybody could go, just like brothels. But in those days

766
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 2: there was three kinds of development applications. There was you

767
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 2: could run a massage parlor there was no sex, no

768
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,720
Speaker 2: hand relief. You could run a brothel, which is full service,

769
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 2: or you could run bondage and discipline, which was full service,

770
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 2: a hand relief and also temporary piercings, whippings, etc. So

771
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:32,800
Speaker 2: it was much more policed by the council. They came

772
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 2: in and you had to have everything correct. There had

773
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 2: to be synks in every room. You had to have

774
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,879
Speaker 2: the yellow sharpie things, you know what I mean. It's

775
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 2: like beyondage and discipline is a graduate school of sex

776
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 2: because there is no sex. It's playtime. It's hard playtime,

777
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,280
Speaker 2: but it's playtime. So anyway, I got into it because

778
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:55,800
Speaker 2: I enjoyed it. I have trained apprentice when I was

779
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 2: working in one of them, I trained apprentices, and I

780
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 2: would always my first question is, I would why do

781
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 2: you want to do a bunch of discipline because I

782
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 2: really want to hurt a man. It's like, okay, you're

783
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 2: not going to be a mistress, because that's not what

784
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,760
Speaker 2: it's about. It's not about hurting anybody. Everybody has different

785
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 2: kinds of pain thresholds. There's things that there's different kinds

786
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 2: of bondage and discipline, like this what we call slap

787
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 2: and tickle, which is honestly probably what most people do

788
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 2: at home anyway, you know, it's just normal. And then

789
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 2: there's really heavy, heavy stuff one hundred and fifty cuts

790
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 2: of the cane down the back of your legs, temporary

791
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 2: piercing deprivation like you know, being put into a latex

792
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 2: bag and all air taken out except for this, I

793
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 2: mean full on. There's different levels of bondage and discipline

794
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 2: that even I don't get involved with. There's like massive

795
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 2: bondage that I wouldn't even know how to do. Like

796
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 2: people are experts at this kind of bondage. It's a

797
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 2: Japanese kind of bondage. But I got into it because

798
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 2: I was interested in it, because it's an interesting part

799
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 2: of the sex industry. Did that for oh, probably so

800
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 2: ninety four to two thousand.

801
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: And one, okay, two thousand and one, okay, so a

802
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 1: long time. And you said, it's something that you can't

803
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: just walk into. You've got to be training.

804
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you've got to be trained and you

805
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 2: so you walk into the place and there's always a

806
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 2: head mistress, right, And people who do it from home

807
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 2: have read a book. People who do it in salons

808
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 2: have been trained. So you can only become a mistress

809
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 2: after about six months of training. And so that six

810
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 2: months of training you're doing training on the weekend.

811
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: Is that in that environment, mistress is the title that you.

812
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 2: So the mistress is the title you earn, and you're

813
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 2: an apprentice before that, and you go in with a

814
00:43:54,960 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 2: trained mistress to learn, so the guy know, you go, look, yes,

815
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 2: this is the kind of session you want. Yeah, that's fine.

816
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 2: I'm just going to bring my apprentice in. He just

817
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 2: chip her one hundred bucks, you know what I mean,

818
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 2: And they do. That's just how it works. Or alternatively,

819
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 2: most mistresses are submissives. There's very few mistresses in Sydney

820
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 2: that I know. I don't know now, but in those

821
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 2: days that I know that weren't submissives. So they would

822
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 2: have a sex. So a guy would come in, apprentice

823
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 2: would come in with the mistress, and if the sex

824
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 2: was negotiated and was paid for, then there would be

825
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 2: the apprentice having the sex with the with the guy.

826
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 1: And it's not this just hello, I did people come

827
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: in in dressed up and go I want to be whipped?

828
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, no, no, it's a full on conversation. And

829
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 2: one of the first books you read as a new

830
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: mistress is a book called BDS N one oh one,

831
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 2: and literally you have to read it page to page

832
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 2: and as well as your training. You can't just go

833
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 2: in and slap somebody. It just doesn't work like that.

834
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: Okay, So you worked at is it called the Castle.

835
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 2: I worked at the Castle, the Castle, I worked at Salon.

836
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 2: I worked at the Castle as a manager. I worked

837
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 2: at Salon Kiddies, and I worked at a Enigma. A

838
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 2: enigma is where I learnt my trade.

839
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: So you when you say it as a manager, you're

840
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,919
Speaker 1: not involved in not involved, okay, But other places.

841
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,959
Speaker 2: When I was a manager at the Castle, I used

842
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 2: to have I used to train apprentices on the weekend,

843
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 2: and I used to have a crash test dummy come in,

844
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 2: like the guy come in who had a certain profession.

845
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask it, and I don't want names,

846
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:42,919
Speaker 1: but you told me that the other other day.

847
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 2: So a car used to be my crash test dummy.

848
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 2: And he could take more cuts of the cane on

849
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 2: his penis than any man I've.

850
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:51,479
Speaker 1: Ever seen cops.

851
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 2: It tough, yeah, and he was only short anyway. And

852
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,879
Speaker 2: he used to do a lot of stuff, a lot

853
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 2: of temporary piercings. He was my crush test dummy. He

854
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 2: was great. I mean that he had no pain threshold,

855
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 2: so it was really good because apprentices make mistakes, you

856
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 2: know what I mean. And his pain threshold was so

857
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 2: high that that's why we used him as a crush

858
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 2: test dummy. They were good days.

859
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 1: Well, you've said about some people and you mentioned the

860
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: Japanese where they get tied.

861
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 2: Up in the I can't remember the name of the rope.

862
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, seeing something on that. What's the weirdstening that you've

863
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: seen that we mightn't be the right word because.

864
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 2: Really bad.

865
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, side catch killers. We've heard some.

866
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 2: Bad so when I was working at a Enigma.

867
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 1: No, yeah, okay, this is what I'm saying, all right,

868
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: that might be something for our listeners, even with a

869
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 1: listener warning.

870
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 3: That's the worst thing, okay, the top second worst.

871
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,280
Speaker 1: Thing type of pain, type of pain.

872
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 2: Oh, the type of pain probably. Look, there was a

873
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 2: lot of guys who could take a lot, like a

874
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 2: lot of whipping, a lot of caning, probably two hundred

875
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,959
Speaker 2: cuts on the bomb, which you know when I say

876
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty cuts of the cane on your legs,

877
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 2: there's nothing like on your bum on your bum's fine,

878
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 2: like there's a lot of fat there. Tryed on the

879
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,720
Speaker 2: back of your legs. So there a lot of guys

880
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 2: could take that kind of pain, I think, but I

881
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 2: never did it because I wasn't experiencing and this is

882
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:34,320
Speaker 2: where where mistresses know their limitations. I worked with women

883
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 2: who did the breathing thing where everything's taken away, you're

884
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 2: stuck in a piece of latex like this, and that

885
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: you suck all the airs sucked out and you've got

886
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 2: this thing to breathe right. Very few mistresses are.

887
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: Good enough to do that wrong.

888
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 2: That to me, that can go horribly wrong. That to

889
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 2: me is the epitome of whatage and discipline can get to.

890
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,840
Speaker 2: But with me, I was more about the caning, the whipping,

891
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 2: temporary piercing, that kind of stuff. So probably middle ground,

892
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 2: not low ground, not high ground. High ground is that

893
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 2: kind of bondage. Bondage and that kind of sensory deprivation

894
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 2: is incredible to look at, incredible to watch as a

895
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 2: session because a lot of times when those kind of

896
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 2: sessions come in, they'll only send so when you do

897
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 2: those interviews, they'll only send out the people who are

898
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 2: qualified to do it. So it might be two people

899
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 2: on a shift of five, Well, those other three, including myself,

900
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 2: would go and watch it because it was so interesting

901
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,879
Speaker 2: to see, and they don't mind. The submissive doesn't mind,

902
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 2: the nail doesn't mind, because that's part of his turn

903
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 2: on is seeing other people see this. But you know,

904
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 2: to be tied up like that and to be in

905
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 2: that sensory deprivation is next level to me.

906
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 1: And what do you think the clients were getting from

907
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: it then and people participating.

908
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 3: In it, Well, it's a turn on.

909
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 2: Sexual it's a sexual component, and they will come.

910
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:15,280
Speaker 3: Men will come from the pain, from the pain or.

911
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 2: From the discomfort. It's not even you know, yes, it

912
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 2: can be painful, and that's the whole thing. And then

913
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 2: there are safe words. If it gets too bad, they

914
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 2: go mercy mistress. And any mistress who doesn't stop after

915
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 2: mercy mistress is not a real mistress because that is

916
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 2: like a no. Whereas you know, in full service, there's

917
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 2: no such thing as a stop because men don't know

918
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 2: how to stop in full sight.

919
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:41,839
Speaker 1: Okay, so what what what you're saying here is it's

920
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: because it is so on the it has to be

921
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 1: more more regulated. Regulated type of people that come there

922
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 1: without naps.

923
00:49:52,800 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 2: Your lawyers, politicians, people who have to doctors, lawyers, people

924
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 2: who have to think every day. Like I like doing

925
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 2: submissive work myself when I was not anymore at seventy

926
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 2: not anymore, but I like to be a submissive because

927
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 2: I'm a thinker, and so you just switch off and

928
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 2: you just like, let somebody else do the thinking for

929
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 2: me for an hour, please, And it's just the best release.

930
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 2: It's absolutely the best release. And when my grandmother died,

931
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 2: I used to have this was privately was I wasn't

932
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 2: working for anybody at the time. I was actually managing

933
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 2: massage parlors. But I had a master and he was great,

934
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 2: and his wife used to send him to me because

935
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 2: his wife would go, Krinn, he needs to come and

936
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 2: see you now, you know. So anyway, he was great,

937
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 2: and I had after my grandmother died. So she died

938
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 2: in the April, and in the September, I saw him

939
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 2: and I said, this is it. This is our last session.

940
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 2: And I made it the most cathartic session, like, hurt

941
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 2: me as much as you want, because I need to

942
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 2: get it out of me. And I cried for the

943
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 2: whole three hours, just because my grandmother's death had done

944
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 2: so much damage to me that I needed this to

945
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 2: get through. And I never saw him again, and we contact.

946
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 2: We were in contact for a few years after, but

947
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 2: I never saw him physically again.

948
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: Well it's interesting and thank you for giving us an

949
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: insight into that world, because I'm sure a lot of

950
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: people haven't experienced that. But the being curious of people.

951
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 2: Need to People need to broaden their outlook or broaden

952
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 2: their mind on what sex involves or sexuality involves. Sexuality

953
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 2: is not all wham bam, thank you, ma'am. Sexuality comes

954
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 2: in many forms, and BDSM is just one of them,

955
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 2: and it is the Graduate School of Sex.

956
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 1: Okay, interesting, where do I go from there? I'm lost

957
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 1: for I'm lost for words. Let me check my notes. Looking.

958
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 1: First of all, I just want to talk about your sorry,

959
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,720
Speaker 1: going from that topic into your father that was charged

960
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: very publicly with a sexual assault to.

961
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 2: Seven and fourteen year old.

962
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,320
Speaker 1: Yes, talk us about that, because I know you're passionate.

963
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 2: It was really good. We were getting ready. I know

964
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 2: it was Marti Gras time and we were getting ready

965
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 2: because I was in the Martyro Parade for eight years

966
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 2: up until nineteen ninety nine OHET ninety nine, two thousand

967
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,359
Speaker 2: and two. So I was in the parade, and in

968
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 2: the parade there was dikes on bikes, and then there

969
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 2: was the Red Ribbon Ladies. So we were the Red

970
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 2: Ribbon Ladies, and each year. We used to make out

971
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 2: fits and I was the only girl. The rest of

972
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 2: them guys, and we all got dressed up and made

973
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 2: money for charity. Da Da Da da da. Anyway, and

974
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 2: I know it was around that time because we were

975
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 2: making outfits and there was a thing on the news

976
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 2: about my father about being charged with sexual assault or

977
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 2: sexual interference or whatever the wording was of two miners.

978
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 2: And then there was a picture of Dad. And then

979
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 2: I rang my grandmother, who is my mother's mother, who

980
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 2: doesn't like my father, remember, yeah, And I said, then

981
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 2: Dad's on the news, and she goes, I know because

982
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 2: I know, I just saw it. And I said, what

983
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 2: is going on? And she said, I know one hundred

984
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 2: percent he didn't do it. And this is the woman

985
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,919
Speaker 2: who did not like my father. And I said, how

986
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 2: do you know that he didn't do it? She said, well,

987
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 2: first of all, he never touched you, or he never

988
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 2: touched my brother, right, And she said, second of all,

989
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 2: he doesn't have it in him, because then he was

990
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 2: he had type two diabetes. He was one step away

991
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 2: from being an amputee. He ended up being a bilateral amputee.

992
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:56,280
Speaker 2: He had no interest in sex or whatsoever, so anyway,

993
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 2: I called the cops. This happened in Penrith. I call

994
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 2: the cops in Penrith. I said, I'm god in Pipe's daughter.

995
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 2: Can you tell me what's happening? They set up we

996
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 2: really can't give out any details. I said, okay, can

997
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 2: you tell me the age of the people the children?

998
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 2: And they said eleven and fourteen. I said, right, thank

999
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 2: you very much. I rang my father and I said,

1000
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 2: my father and I were on tenuous terms at this time.

1001
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 2: And I rang my father and I said, and he goes,

1002
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 2: I know, what do you want to know? And I said,

1003
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 2: I want to know if it's true. And he goes, well,

1004
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 2: what do you think bugs? I said, no, I don't

1005
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 2: believe it, but i'd like to know because I'm going

1006
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 2: to get interviewed, I'm sure by Channel seven, Channel nine

1007
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 2: or Channel ten. Being sarcastic, you know, anyway, he goes,

1008
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 2: it's not true. So this was front page news for

1009
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:47,760
Speaker 2: over a week. However, many months later, after he's already

1010
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,359
Speaker 2: had one leg taken off, he's wheeled into course. You

1011
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 2: see there's a photo of him being wheeled up the gangway.

1012
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 2: And then there was no case to be found, and

1013
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 2: there that came out on page twelve in this.

1014
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:06,280
Speaker 1: Much there's a disparity of the way.

1015
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 2: So then I went and changed his Wikipedia.

1016
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 1: Page right because it still had those allegations, because I

1017
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 1: don't know anything about the case, but I remember it

1018
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 1: being very from a policing point of view, but I

1019
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:21,720
Speaker 1: remember it being very big in the media.

1020
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very big in the media until it

1021
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 2: came to there's no case to be heard, and then

1022
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 2: it was on page twelve in a paragraph, this bit.

1023
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 1: I've got to say that you have lived a interesting life.

1024
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:37,879
Speaker 1: You're very forthright. Have you always been forth right? Yeah?

1025
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:39,879
Speaker 1: It served you well.

1026
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 2: Well, I just believe that if you don't if you

1027
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 2: don't tell the truth, then you're lying. And lies are

1028
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 2: harder to keep up on than truth is. And why

1029
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:55,799
Speaker 2: am I I've lived it? And like people will go,

1030
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:59,320
Speaker 2: you know, I say I've been busted, you know, or whatever.

1031
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 2: You know, it's usually about the bust or you know

1032
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 2: about me, and I'll go, yeah, I was busted. Why

1033
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 2: do you tell people that? Because I was? What am

1034
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 2: I going to tell them? Happened from the eighth of

1035
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 2: June nineteen ninety one to the eighth of Deceeven nineteen

1036
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 2: ninety three.

1037
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,400
Speaker 3: What that I just went off the you're busy.

1038
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: I know, drugs.

1039
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 2: What do I think of them? Now?

1040
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 1: Whether you think of them now, do you subscribe to

1041
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 1: legalizing drugs or what do you? How do you do?

1042
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:31,359
Speaker 2: I live in the cross, so to me, they're kind

1043
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 2: of legalized anyway. I mean, you know, I have my

1044
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 2: CBD or also, I know that's legalized, and I have

1045
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 2: flowers what they call flowers, which are bards, which you know,

1046
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 2: I get from my doctor, so that's legalized. And in

1047
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 2: regards to heroin, they've got the injecting room, so that's

1048
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 2: not legalized, but I mean, at least there's the government

1049
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 2: doing something about it. I've lived up there when there

1050
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 2: was no injecting room and they had the garbagemen on

1051
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,320
Speaker 2: hazard pay on the Saturdays and Sundays because of the

1052
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:02,720
Speaker 2: amount of syringes. So I'm all for the injecting room.

1053
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 2: I live across the road from it, so I don't

1054
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:07,839
Speaker 2: like what comes out of the back of it, but

1055
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 2: it is what it is, you know. I'd rather have

1056
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 2: it there than not. In regards to things like ecstasy

1057
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 2: or ice or I don't even know what the drugs

1058
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 2: are around these days, but all I know is whatever

1059
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 2: is around these days is crap, like the if you

1060
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 2: take an ecstasy now like they're taking four a night.

1061
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 2: Like I still have contact with the girls that I

1062
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 2: worked with in the massage pilots, right, they're in their

1063
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 2: thirties and forties, so they're like still out partying and

1064
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, yeah, I just had a really good weekend,

1065
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 2: or you have many a kissy to take ten on

1066
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 2: the weekend in Owaday, you took.

1067
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 3: The quality the quality.

1068
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 1: What about pill testing?

1069
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 2: I know that they do that.

1070
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 1: Now do you agree with it?

1071
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 3: Do you one hundred?

1072
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 2: I agree with people being at the start of of

1073
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 2: festivals and stuff like that, not to bust them, but

1074
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 2: let's get a test in there, because there's people, as

1075
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 2: we know, these festivals that are going on now, not

1076
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 2: like our day when it was like rave parties of

1077
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 2: a night. These festivals of a day, there's eight and

1078
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 2: ten people oding. So there's eight or ten people who

1079
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 2: have dealt with somebody just there at the festival. So

1080
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 2: why are they instead of freaking everybody out to bust

1081
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 2: them at the beginning. Why aren't you pill testing at

1082
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 2: the beginning or powder testing at the beginning.

1083
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 3: You're not going to stop it.

1084
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 1: I think if I was a parent, I had kids

1085
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 1: are going to a rave party or whatever, I'd feel

1086
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 1: more comfortable with them on.

1087
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 2: Testing them, because the other option is them getting no,

1088
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 2: you can't come in, you're busted, or no you can't

1089
00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 2: come in, leave, and then going to pick up another

1090
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 2: one on they're you're not going to stop it. It's

1091
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 2: not like it's not I saw something on something the

1092
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 2: other day and said that it's not something about the

1093
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 2: war on drugs, and it's not the war on drugs,

1094
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 2: it's the war on addiction. Well it's not even a

1095
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 2: war on addiction anymore. It's the war on quality. If

1096
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,479
Speaker 2: the drugs were the quality of what I was brought

1097
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 2: up with being when I was feeling when I was

1098
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 2: brought up, when the ecstasy were around, with the cooke

1099
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 2: was around, when all the drugs were around in those days,

1100
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 2: and nobody was stamping on it a hundred times, then

1101
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 2: you could feel safe about people taking them. Now I

1102
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:41,439
Speaker 2: wouldn't know, Sorry, I wouldn't trust anything on the streets now,

1103
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 2: especially anybody who gets involved with eyes is just a

1104
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 2: goddamn idiot, absolute idiot.

1105
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 1: Well you see the effects effects of that the effects

1106
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, why would you want to go down

1107
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 1: that path? What about education? Do you think that makes

1108
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 1: a difference.

1109
00:59:55,760 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 2: Nobody listens. You're talking about kids, talking about you and

1110
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 2: me at eighteen to twenty two or fifteen to twenty two.

1111
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 2: At twenty two, you start thinking a little bit more sensibly,

1112
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 2: a little bit more sensibly. But fifteen to twenty two,

1113
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 2: or however old you are that your parents let you

1114
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 2: out from one of these festivals, you're not thinking sensibly.

1115
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 2: You're not thinking about ending up in hospital with intubated,

1116
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 2: oded and brain dead. You're not thinking about that. You're

1117
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 2: thinking about the party. There's no education, because education goes

1118
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 2: in one ear and out the other. It's just it's

1119
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,320
Speaker 2: not comprehending. It's like, yeah, sure, that's not going to

1120
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 2: happen to me, not at all. It's like being a

1121
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 2: drug dealer and going, yeah, it's not going to happen

1122
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 2: to me.

1123
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: Wow. Fascinating, fascinating discussion, a fascinating conversation with people want

1124
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 1: to follow you more on TikTok? How do they find you?

1125
01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 2: My TikTok name is Korean Kae in nineteen fifty four,

1126
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 2: because that's a year I was born cool.

1127
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 1: Okay, so if I do a quick calculation, I'm only

1128
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 1: pretending here because you've already said that you're seventy any

1129
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 1: other adventures you've got planted?

1130
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 3: No.

1131
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 2: People tell me I should write a book. People tell

1132
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 2: me that all the time. But it's like, somebody give

1133
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 2: me a million dollars or a couple of and not

1134
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 2: even a million, even two million, and I'll sit and

1135
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 2: write it. But right now I don't have the money

1136
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 2: to sit and write a book.

1137
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 1: You know.

1138
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 2: I have other things and going on in my life.

1139
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 2: But my thing, my passion, pre COVID. I haven't been anywhere.

1140
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:38,280
Speaker 1: Well.

1141
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,920
Speaker 2: I've been to New Zealand. I've been to Perth. I've

1142
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 2: been to Melbourne because I love Melbourne. But my passion

1143
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 2: is travel, My passion, absolute passion is travel. I've traveled

1144
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 2: since two thousand and eight. I've traveled every fifteen months

1145
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 2: overseas for at least two months a year up until COVID.

1146
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 2: Now I'm too scared to get on a plane for

1147
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 2: that long because everybody that gets on a plane for

1148
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 2: thirty hours seems to end up with COVID one way

1149
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 2: or another. They're either on their way over on Korean

1150
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 2: I'm here, but I'm sick, and then take four days

1151
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 2: out of your vacation to get better or ten days

1152
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,160
Speaker 2: out of your vacation to get better, or get it

1153
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:17,080
Speaker 2: on the way back. And I'm just not prepared to

1154
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 2: do it, even traveling business class, I won't do it,

1155
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 2: and you wouldn't get me traveling economy.

1156
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 1: So I'm sorry, ladies.

1157
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 2: I can't do it. I just I'm six foot all.

1158
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 1: Back.

1159
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 2: There is not that far. I only go north.

1160
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure you're still going to have a lot

1161
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 1: of fun whateverever you do. Your outlook on life it

1162
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 1: seems to be very positive and take what's out there

1163
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: on offer with life and enjoy yourself.

1164
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 3: So thank you.

1165
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you coming on. That's been a lot

1166
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 1: of fun, as I suspected it would be. And good

1167
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 1: luck with your TikTok and everything else you do. But

1168
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 1: thanks for being so far right and what you've what

1169
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 1: you've told us about, and uh yeah, it's been interesting.

1170
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 2: Thanks so much. Been good here. H m m m hmmm,

1171
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 2: mhm