Speaker 1: Why on Sky News This is Sharry.
Speaker 2: Good Evening will tonight Anthony Albinizi has lost his composure
Speaker 2: when grilled about breaking his promise on negative gearing. That
Speaker 2: was bad enough. Now the explosive story that labor insiders
Speaker 2: are calling for the Prime Minister to be rolled to
Speaker 2: stop the party losing. I'll bring you that full story
Speaker 2: in a moment and it will rattle the PM. Also tonight,
Speaker 2: it's the tragedy Petty Wong and the international community keep
Speaker 2: forgetting about twelve Israeli children murdered by Hesbelah while playing soccer. Well,
Speaker 2: one mother whose beautiful little girl was killed will join
Speaker 2: me live on the show tonight. You don't want to
Speaker 2: miss this. And Tel Aviv hit by an unprecedented Hesbela
Speaker 2: ballistic missile. I'll take you live to Israel for the latest,
Speaker 2: but first tonight. An under pressure prime minister has apt
Speaker 2: while being grilled about plans to change negative gearing and
Speaker 2: capital gains tax. After facing scrutiny all day, Albanezy this
Speaker 2: afternoon lost his call. In a heated interview, he admitted
Speaker 2: he had no idea whether his treasurer had requested modeling
Speaker 2: on changes to the controversial tax policies here. He was
Speaker 2: on ABC Radio with Richard Glover this afternoon.
Speaker 3: The department, like all departments, look at various things at
Speaker 3: various times. Is this government policy or government request to
Speaker 3: examine potential policy announcement? No it's not.
Speaker 4: But it's a fair question to ask you whether you
Speaker 4: or your treasurer has requested this this study.
Speaker 3: Sure, and I've answered that you've asked.
Speaker 5: You've answered it for yourself, but not for the treasurer.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not the treasurer.
Speaker 6: You must have said to hey, Jim, did you ask
Speaker 6: them to do this?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: No, not at all.
Speaker 5: Sorry, you don't know whether your treasurer has asked them.
Speaker 6: To do this work or not.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know because I'm not the treasurer, and
Speaker 3: the Treasurer is on his way to China as we speak.
Speaker 3: But what we have done is to concentrate on our
Speaker 3: homes for Australia Plan.
Speaker 2: So he doesn't know whether his own government is re
Speaker 2: examining negative gearing policy. That was a train wreck interview
Speaker 2: and that is what a Prime minister under pressure looks like.
Speaker 2: And he's certainly feeling the heat. Along with bad polls,
Speaker 2: there are now even calls within Labor for his removal
Speaker 2: as PM. Senior Labour figure from er Queensland State Secretary
Speaker 2: Cameron Milner wrote a public article saying that it was
Speaker 2: time for the Labor Party to take the nuclear option
Speaker 2: and force Albanese's exit. Milna writes that Albaneze he criticized
Speaker 2: the extreme Greens, but his only viable plan to remain
Speaker 2: PM will see him govern with the extreme Greens. Labour
Speaker 2: simply can't let him do that to our party. So
Speaker 2: to reanergize the base, lift the Labour primary and put
Speaker 2: it in a position to win a second term in office,
Speaker 2: they need to take the nuclear option. Albenizi has tried
Speaker 2: his best, but his best isn't good enough.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 2: With concern growing about Albanesi's ability to lead the country,
Speaker 2: it's likely we're going to see more of his temper,
Speaker 2: more of him losing his call over the next few months.
Speaker 2: Ahead of the election, the Prime Minister is frustrated that
Speaker 2: pesky journalists keep asking questions about tax policy, questions that
Speaker 2: are clearly in the public interest, questions that are legitimate.
Speaker 2: Given Labour's flip flopping on policies like negative gearing over
Speaker 2: the years, the reality is Labor is obsessed with class
Speaker 2: war and as such has always despised negative gearing. Ahead
Speaker 2: of the twenty nineteen election, Labor promised to scrap it.
Speaker 6: You've invested under the cool of tax laws.
Speaker 1: They're the rules that will apply going forward. Our changes
Speaker 1: to negative gearing are prospective.
Speaker 7: This is the most generous property tax concession in the world,
Speaker 7: in effect, very few.
Speaker 6: Countries do it.
Speaker 2: And Albanez he mounted the case himself as well, saying
Speaker 2: that scrapping negative gearing was a priority. His word priority,
Speaker 2: you'll hear it in a minute, and the right thing
Speaker 2: to do here. He was making those remarks on both
Speaker 2: The Today Show and on Sky News ahead of the
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen election.
Speaker 1: Well, where about line, Lisa.
Speaker 7: Our policies, including the quite controversial policy according to Christopher,
Speaker 7: of doing something about housing affordability, for example, in terms
Speaker 7: of changes that we would make to negative gearing and
Speaker 7: to capital gains in terms of those concessions, that's pretty
Speaker 7: brave for an opposition to do.
Speaker 1: But it's the right thing to do gearing policy.
Speaker 8: I see that there's another report that's come out claiming
Speaker 8: that it will put downward.
Speaker 1: Pressure on house prices.
Speaker 8: That's what label wants, though, isn't it for it to
Speaker 8: put downward pressure on house prices?
Speaker 1: That's the purpose.
Speaker 7: Well, I think what it will clearly do is mean
Speaker 7: that the increase in housing prices will be less than
Speaker 7: they would have been without this, and I believe it's
Speaker 7: a strong policy.
Speaker 2: That election was considered unlosable for Bill Shorten, yet lose
Speaker 2: it he did thanks to voters roundly rejecting tax changes
Speaker 2: like on capital gains and negative gearing, because it turned
Speaker 2: out that it wasn't only the wealthy who had investment properties.
Speaker 2: Many Australians do and it would have been a hit
Speaker 2: to the hip pocket for one point two million voters.
Speaker 2: That's how many people negatively gear their properties.
Speaker 9: Well.
Speaker 2: In the wake of Bill Shorton's crushing loss, he sees
Speaker 2: the Labor leadership and dumped the party's radical tax plans,
Speaker 2: and suddenly he was arguing there'd be no change to
Speaker 2: negative gearing.
Speaker 7: Gearing now gliding without help to buskiing. Negative gearing is
Speaker 7: a good thing, but it wasn't the years negative gearing.
Speaker 7: We had a policy that we took to the election
Speaker 7: where we were not successful.
Speaker 10: Why was negative gearing and capital gains tax breaks a
Speaker 10: bad idea in twenty nineteen, and a good idea in
Speaker 10: twenty twenty.
Speaker 7: Seen, well, we've found a better idea arrange of them.
Speaker 2: But now it seems this may be another broken promise
Speaker 2: because we learned today that Treasury is examining options to
Speaker 2: change negative gearing. The Herald reporting that federal officials have
Speaker 2: started work on options to scale back negative gearing and
Speaker 2: capital gains tax concessions, preparing the ground for a bold
Speaker 2: new housing policy that could define the federal election. They
Speaker 2: report that a request for modeling on the potential change
Speaker 2: to negative of gearing has been made and that it
Speaker 2: could canvas changes to the concessions on capital gains tax well.
Speaker 2: When asked about this explosive report today, the Prime Minister
Speaker 2: didn't deny it.
Speaker 7: I've seen those reports and what we do is we
Speaker 7: value the public service, so from time to time, I'm
Speaker 7: sure the public service are looking at policy ideas.
Speaker 2: But then by this afternoon his message was confused, and
Speaker 2: he all but admitted he had no idea if his
Speaker 2: Treasurer or anyone else in his government was re examining
Speaker 2: negative gearing. In the past week, the Prime Minister was
Speaker 2: asked several times if he was looking at changes to
Speaker 2: this policy, and he was annoyed at the ABC for
Speaker 2: even asking.
Speaker 8: Are you saying negative gearing and capital gains tax concessions
Speaker 8: are absolutely off the table for you.
Speaker 7: Well, they're tax policies.
Speaker 1: But are those tax policies? Are those tax policies completely
Speaker 1: off the table.
Speaker 7: For you, Patricia, I don't answer the sort of those
Speaker 7: sort of questions.
Speaker 2: In another ABC radio interview, Albaneze seemed to rule out changes.
Speaker 7: Well, one analysis is certainly the Property Council argue that
Speaker 7: that would have a negative.
Speaker 1: Impact on supply.
Speaker 7: So that is one of the reasons why we're very
Speaker 7: cautious about that.
Speaker 2: So at the same time Albaneze was all but ruling
Speaker 2: out negative gearing changes, Treasury was reportedly looking at options
Speaker 2: to do precisely that. It's incredible how Lucy is with
Speaker 2: his word ruling it out at the same time as
Speaker 2: his government considers major change. This is misleading to the
Speaker 2: public and it says a lot about Alberneze's character. He's
Speaker 2: already once lied about the changes to Stage three tax cuts.
Speaker 2: As you know, he pledged over and over again that
Speaker 2: he wouldn't touch them until the day he changed them dramatically.
Speaker 2: Now clearly Albin Eazy is worried about the Greens taking
Speaker 2: votes off labor thanks to the perception that they care
Speaker 2: more about the housing crisis. But if he does go
Speaker 2: ahead with this broken promise, it would unleash a world
Speaker 2: of political pain on Albanzi. Peter Dutton's Liberal campaign team
Speaker 2: is already thinking about reprising this advert from the shot
Speaker 2: in era.
Speaker 11: Bill Shorten's new housing tax would take a wrecking ball
Speaker 11: to the economy. Some experts believe it could even lead
Speaker 11: to a recession. With their higher capital gains taxes and
Speaker 11: ending negative gearing as we know it, labor would cut
Speaker 11: the value of your home and push up rents. A
Speaker 11: softer housing market means now it's the worst time for
Speaker 11: Labour's housing tax. Labour can't manage money. That's why they're
Speaker 11: coming after yours, labor. It's the bill Australia can't afford.
Speaker 2: Yep. That would be a scare campaign, But the reality
Speaker 2: is that changes to negative gearing have two immediate consequences
Speaker 2: that would be detrimental to our economy and the housing market.
Speaker 2: It could lead to a collapse in house prices and
Speaker 2: it would decrease the value of people's own homes, and secondly,
Speaker 2: it wouldn't help renters because rents inevitably would go up.
Speaker 2: In terms of the hit to the hip pocket for
Speaker 2: families it'd be massive, and the budget revenue wouldn't be
Speaker 2: immediate because the scheme would have to be grandfathered. This
Speaker 2: debate and uncertainty over tax policy comes at a time
Speaker 2: when the Australian economy is already stagnant. But there was
Speaker 2: good news today that inflation has come down dramatically. Headline
Speaker 2: inflation has fallen to two point seven percent last month,
Speaker 2: while underlying inflation fell from three point eight to three
Speaker 2: point four percent, and this was welcomed by the Treasurer.
Speaker 12: The new inflation numbers for August showed that headline and
Speaker 12: underlying inflation both went down substantially. These are very welcome,
Speaker 12: very encouraging and very heartening numbers.
Speaker 2: RBA Governor Michelle Bullock made the point this week that
Speaker 2: headline inflation has been driven down temporarily by the government's
Speaker 2: energy rebate, and this will rise again by around half
Speaker 2: a percentage point when the rebate ends. The RBA isn't
Speaker 2: expecting inflation to return to the target band until late
Speaker 2: next year, and Michelle Bullock doesn't expect it'll be at
Speaker 2: a sustainable level until mid twenty twenty six.
Speaker 13: I think the point I would make is that if
Speaker 13: tomorrow we get an inflation number which has got a
Speaker 13: two in front of it, so it's back in the band,
Speaker 13: that doesn't mean that we've got inflation under control. It
Speaker 13: doesn't mean that inflation is sustainably back within the band.
Speaker 13: It just means it's back there at the moment.
Speaker 2: And in the media there's been criticism today of the
Speaker 2: Treasurer for art officially or temporarily lowering inflation. But the
Speaker 2: point is this, Jim Chalmers was trying to find a
Speaker 2: way to provide cost of living relief without contributing to inflation.
Speaker 2: Any cash handout would certainly have been inflationary. Energy rebates
Speaker 2: were quite a genius way to offer relief, and the
Speaker 2: beauty of it was that, yes, it temporarily reduced inflation.
Speaker 2: But as the IBA governor said, inflation is persistent, it
Speaker 2: is sticky, and this means there won't be a rate
Speaker 2: cut anytime soon, and possibly not before the federal election.
Speaker 2: And you can bet that if there's no rate cut,
Speaker 2: Albanezi will point the finger, will point the blame at
Speaker 2: his treasurer. Political editor Simon Benson writes that ironically, to
Speaker 2: guarantee inflation and rates come down would require the government
Speaker 2: to do the exact opposite of what it's doing spending,
Speaker 2: and with an election campaign to think of, the government
Speaker 2: is hardly likely to do that, And that's the catch.
Speaker 2: The Treasurer has managed to mostly stop his radical and
Speaker 2: ambitious colleagues from going on a massive spendeth on in
Speaker 2: their own portfolios. That's notwithstanding that eighty two million dollars
Speaker 2: Penny Wong has given to the terrorist controlled Gaza. But
Speaker 2: with the election coming up, it's not clear how long
Speaker 2: he'll be able to hold them off, with Labor and
Speaker 2: PAS clearly caring more about staying in office than bringing
Speaker 2: down the cost of living. All Right, it's a jam
Speaker 2: packed show tonight. We've got a lot of news coming up.
Speaker 2: But right now let's bring in my regular Wednesday panel,
Speaker 2: former Victorian Liberal Party president Michael Kroger and former Labor
Speaker 2: Minister Graham Richardson. Welcome to you both. Mike, I want
Speaker 2: to get your reaction to the comments that I've just
Speaker 2: made there and also this idea that alban Easy Today
Speaker 2: has refused to rule out changes to negative gearing. What
Speaker 2: do you think about this?
Speaker 4: Well, this is a disastrous idea. You know, as Richo knows,
Speaker 4: at least in my lifetime, Labor have only one election
Speaker 4: on tax at a federal level. That was in ninety
Speaker 4: three when they opposed a new tax. But I don't
Speaker 4: think Labor have ever won an election by proposing a
Speaker 4: new tax themselves, which is what they're doing here, an
Speaker 4: increase in tax, a change in tax. As Albanezy has
Speaker 4: hinted at today, this is electorally disastrous for Labor. As
Speaker 4: I said, They've never won an election proposing.
Speaker 6: A new tax.
Speaker 4: And the bigger issue I think is this, it's a
Speaker 4: question of trust. I mean, I can see the federal
Speaker 4: Liberal Party running a brilliant campaign on can you trust
Speaker 4: this bloke? I mean, he promised no changes to super,
Speaker 4: He promised no changes the tax stays, three tax cuts.
Speaker 1: He promised he wouldn't.
Speaker 4: Bring in changes to negative gearing. He promised that, and
Speaker 4: we've seen the clips tonight. He promised the Aboriginal community
Speaker 4: the oral statement in full. Never promised changes to the
Speaker 4: IR system, which is now done. Et cetera, et cetera,
Speaker 4: et cetera, this bloke can't keep a consistent line because
Speaker 4: he gets pushed and pulled. These two weak and so
Speaker 4: a campaign based on that, you can't trust a word
Speaker 4: this bloke says, is going to defeat alban easy. Maybe
Speaker 4: not seventy two seats for Dutton, maybe a few more
Speaker 4: than that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be very political, politically risky to pursue
Speaker 2: changes to negative gearing, even if it might hold off
Speaker 2: the Greens to some extent, Richo.
Speaker 10: Yeah, that looks they're all maybe true, but the reality
Speaker 10: is out there in the real world they like Alba.
Speaker 10: They're not going to dump Albo at this stage of
Speaker 10: the game. No way in the world.
Speaker 6: People like this.
Speaker 10: Fella, and that likability factor is going to keep him
Speaker 10: in government for a while.
Speaker 2: Yet you always mentioned this likability factor. I just don't
Speaker 2: see it, Richo. But rich think you're gonna like this
Speaker 2: story we're going to talk about now now. As I
Speaker 2: spoke about just then, there are calls by some inside
Speaker 2: Labor for the PM to be removed. My regular guest
Speaker 2: on this show, Cameron Milner, writes in The Nightly that
Speaker 2: Labour should take the nuclear option and ask Albanesi to
Speaker 2: gracefully step aside. Or otherwise blast him out of office
Speaker 2: with a caucus vote. And Richo he writes that this
Speaker 2: is in fact the same option that Graham Richardson delivered
Speaker 2: to me when I was Bill Shorton's chief of staff,
Speaker 2: when he was shilling for Albanezi to take over from Bill.
Speaker 2: In February twenty sixteen, just four months before the federal election,
Speaker 2: Camra Milna writes that's sitting down at Richo's local Harveside restaurant, Catalina.
Speaker 2: Richo opined that Bill has two news polls left. When
Speaker 2: he falls shot, he can resign for elbow or will
Speaker 2: blast him out with the message delivered Richo that encouraged
Speaker 2: me to order Andre and Maine and proceeded to tell
Speaker 2: me what a talent Scott Morrison was. I have to say,
Speaker 2: rich O, it does sound like you. You've taken me
Speaker 2: to Catilena before. But on a serious note, Gray and Richardson,
Speaker 2: is this true? Did you threaten to roll Bill Shotton
Speaker 2: for Albo?
Speaker 6: That certainly doesn't sound like me.
Speaker 10: So I think, as I kept hearing in America once
Speaker 10: upon a time, I just don't recall that.
Speaker 2: So you're genuinely denying this because this is you know,
Speaker 2: a story that would go down in the history books.
Speaker 2: Four months out from the election, did you say that
Speaker 2: Bill Shotton had two news polls left.
Speaker 6: I don't recall.
Speaker 1: Did you did.
Speaker 2: Think that Albanezy should replace Shorten?
Speaker 10: That's true, Yeah, that's true. I certainly had that view
Speaker 10: for quite a long time.
Speaker 2: And you may have made that threat to Cameron Milner,
Speaker 2: Shorton's chief of staff at Catalina.
Speaker 6: Well, it's possible.
Speaker 2: You remember the lunch you took him.
Speaker 6: No, I don't particularly remember the lunch.
Speaker 10: I've had so many at Catalina, it's so hard to
Speaker 10: remember them each one individually.
Speaker 2: Basically your touch up, Michael Kroger, would removing Albert easy
Speaker 2: Hirst or help Labor at this point?
Speaker 4: Well, Milner's a very smart blake. Let's let's be He's
Speaker 4: not my politics. He's Labor, of course, but he's a
Speaker 4: very smart blake. And he was Albert. He was Shorten's
Speaker 4: advisor in the sixteen election, not the nineteen election, the
Speaker 4: sixteen election where they almost had a miraculous win. So
Speaker 4: he's a very bright blake. Would it help them? Probably not,
Speaker 4: for the reason that historically in Australia, to change leader
Speaker 4: if there's going to be an argument. There's always got
Speaker 4: to be one standout. I mean we slapped snedd and
Speaker 4: for Fraser Howard Peacock. On labour side, you had you
Speaker 4: had Hawk Keating, et cetera. Rud Gillard on this occasion,
Speaker 4: You've got alban easy in about eight hours, So who
Speaker 4: would be the leader? You're never going to have a
Speaker 4: proper leadership ballot challenge to Albanize, et cetera. When no
Speaker 4: one's got any idea who would take over, they won't
Speaker 4: be able to agree amongst themselves, which means Albo will
Speaker 4: Albau will stay there. That's that's the main problem with changing,
Speaker 4: because there's no one person to gravitate around and labor
Speaker 4: and not going to go through months of arguing about
Speaker 4: you know, which part of which faction should have their
Speaker 4: candidate up against it, and the others will get that,
Speaker 4: you know, get chief stuff and say, well we're not
Speaker 4: if it's not me, I'm still supporting Albo. So the
Speaker 4: whole thing will collapse. So it's not going to happen.
Speaker 4: But you know, there are a couple of people who
Speaker 4: would do better.
Speaker 2: The story is going to rattle alban Eazy, no question. Look,
Speaker 2: I want to turn to Israel and Lebanon now and
Speaker 2: specifically Penny Wong's reaction to the latest developments and quite
Speaker 2: outrageous comments, Patty Wong has wanned that Lebanon cannot become
Speaker 2: the next Gaza. According to a report in The Herald,
Speaker 2: as she said, and I'm quoting Penny Wong, now, the
Speaker 2: global community is clear, this destructive cycle must stop. All
Speaker 2: parties must show restraint and de escalate. Lebanon cannot become
Speaker 2: the next Gaza.
Speaker 10: Now.
Speaker 2: I spoke about Pennywong's approach at length last night and
Speaker 2: the night before. But the Australians cartoonist Johannes Leek summed
Speaker 2: it up in one image. Have a look at this
Speaker 2: and you might have seen it already. And the cartoon says,
Speaker 2: there's a Taiwan representative there saying, will you put in
Speaker 2: a good word for us at the UN Penny and
Speaker 2: Pennywong replies, if you were a quasi state run in
Speaker 2: part by terrorists hell bent on the annihilation of your neighbor,
Speaker 2: and not a peaceful, vibrant democracy, then maybe I could
Speaker 2: help you. I mean, Richo. She does seem to be
Speaker 2: confusing the good guys with the bad guys, doesn't she Oh.
Speaker 10: I think that's a bit harsh. I'm a fan of Pennies.
Speaker 10: You got to remember she came from the left. Sometimes
Speaker 10: it's hard for them the shit at all. All of
Speaker 10: those views, even if they're as crappy as I think
Speaker 10: most of them are, they'll hang on to them. But look,
Speaker 10: she's doing a pretty good job. There's no issue around
Speaker 10: around Pennywong. You don't walk down the street and people
Speaker 10: rush up you and say, gee, you've got to get
Speaker 10: rid of her. It doesn't happen. Penny Wong's as safe
Speaker 10: as houses as they say.
Speaker 2: I couldn't disagree with you more. I think Pennywong is
Speaker 2: the worst foreign minister this country has ever had. She's
Speaker 2: just abandoned long standing bipartisan policy, particularly when it comes
Speaker 2: to our ally Israel. People do on the street talk
Speaker 2: about what about job she's doing. Michael Kroger, Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think she's.
Speaker 4: The worst foreign minister ever. I mean, look, as foreign minister,
Speaker 4: as prime minister, you've got to have some moral clarity.
Speaker 4: You know, Australia is a democratic country. We stand with
Speaker 4: democratic countries. Democracies are hard fought gains and you have
Speaker 4: to defend democracy, and you've got one democracy in the
Speaker 4: Middle East being a sale by terrorists, countries, organizations, et cetera,
Speaker 4: funded by Iran, et cetera. I mean, if you can't
Speaker 4: stand unequivocally with another democracy like Israel, well you know, really,
Speaker 4: you just you're not worthy of being a minister in
Speaker 4: a democratic government in a democratic country like Australia. I
Speaker 4: think Wong's performance has been not just disgraceful, I just
Speaker 4: think it's been discussing and as I've said, he before
Speaker 4: she was in Israel at the same time I was
Speaker 4: there in January, and she wouldn't visit Kafar as Are,
Speaker 4: she wouldn't visit the Nova Music Festival. She went to
Speaker 4: Ramala and Jerusalem. Wong has no moral clarity on this
Speaker 4: at all. I think she's been disgraceful. And what another
Speaker 4: Gaza hang on Hesbla have been firing rockets into Israel
Speaker 4: four years and eight or nine thousand of them since
Speaker 4: October seven. What do you think Australia would put up
Speaker 4: with someone nearby if there was someone firing rockets, you know,
Speaker 4: really nearly into Sydney or Melbourne or Adelaide or Perth and
Speaker 4: not I mean, there's a point at which Israel had
Speaker 4: to defend itself and they've drawn the line in the
Speaker 4: sand now and there's nothing else Israel can do that
Speaker 4: defend itself, and they're doing exactly what they need to
Speaker 4: do and should do.
Speaker 2: That's true, It's.
Speaker 4: Wrong again, as she is on every occasion.
Speaker 2: Completely agree. Well said, Well done, Michael Kroger. But Richo,
Speaker 2: what about what Michael Kroger just said is wrong? I mean,
Speaker 2: Israel is dealing with almost daily rocket attacks from Hasbela.
Speaker 2: Twelve children were killed. I'm going to speak to the
Speaker 2: mother of one of them a bit later in the show.
Speaker 2: Why should it put up with this? Eighty thousand families
Speaker 2: have had to leave their homes.
Speaker 6: I'm not saying it should.
Speaker 10: Sometimes you've got to disagree with where your party is going.
Speaker 10: I've always been and always will be rock solid on
Speaker 10: standing with Israel. I'm not going to be altering that
Speaker 10: stance one iota.
Speaker 2: So then you can't think Pennywong's doing a good job
Speaker 2: as Foreign minister, then.
Speaker 10: Well, I think she's doing a great job as Foreign minister.
Speaker 10: With one exception you can think that that's legitimate is
Speaker 10: the middle legs.
Speaker 4: She hasn't been to lunch with you at Catalina's, rich O, No,
Speaker 4: she hasn't.
Speaker 2: Have you Michael or you are you the what about
Speaker 2: you are? You're the only one who hasn't been on
Speaker 2: set right now?
Speaker 4: Well, Richard, Richo and I meant to be having lunch,
Speaker 4: but he told me he was going to take me
Speaker 4: to a Chinese restaurant, which I mean, nothing wrong with Catalina's,
Speaker 4: but the Chinese restaurant, and they are in near Sussex Street.
Speaker 4: You're old, You're old, stamping ground.
Speaker 2: Shut didn't go through an entry shut down.
Speaker 10: Yeah, but across the road that's got a sister a road.
Speaker 6: Don't worry.
Speaker 2: Okay, as long as you do have your lunch sorted,
Speaker 2: we can get on with the show, all right. Michael, Croagan,
Speaker 2: Gray and Richardson, thank you so much. Now let's turn
Speaker 2: to the big news of the week that the A
Speaker 2: Triple C has launched legal action against Coles and wool Wars.
Speaker 2: The supermarkets are now scrambling to try and gain back
Speaker 2: the trust of customers. Now, if the A Triple C's
Speaker 2: allegations are true, it is without question misleading and manipulative behavior,
Speaker 2: especially during a cost of living crisis. But to make
Speaker 2: the scandal even worse, former chairman of the A Triple C,
Speaker 2: Alan Fell's points out that the prices that were temporarily
Speaker 2: increased before being discounted, but discounted to prices well above
Speaker 2: their original level were household staples like wheatbigs and noodles.
Speaker 2: And I'm pleased to say that the farmer. A Triple
Speaker 2: C chair Alan Fells joins me. Now, Allan, thank you
Speaker 2: very much for your time this evening. Now, firstly, what
Speaker 2: is your You did a lot of work on price
Speaker 2: gouging of the supermarkets. What's your reaction to this new
Speaker 2: case by the A Triple C against Coals and Woolworths.
Speaker 5: Well, they've obviously got a very strong case. They've got
Speaker 5: a lot of information from consumers and the Internet. And
Speaker 5: then under the law, Coles and Woolies, having made their
Speaker 5: claims about discounts, have to be able to substantiate them.
Speaker 1: I don't think.
Speaker 5: Cos and Woolies will be able to come up with
Speaker 5: any evidence that is helpful to them. On the contrary,
Speaker 5: the opposite to me, it's a rather clear breach of
Speaker 5: the law, likely to be upheld by the courts and
Speaker 5: likely to result in high funds.
Speaker 2: Now, if it is, you know, in many cases it
Speaker 2: was obvious to consumers that this practice was happening. How
Speaker 2: is it possible that wiol Wars and Cole's directors senior
Speaker 2: managers wouldn't have known about this. Do you think that
Speaker 2: this is an issue that there should be scrutiny on
Speaker 2: what they knew.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's a very good point.
Speaker 5: As you said, if consumers knew about it, if you'd
Speaker 5: look up the internet and prove it, I would have
Speaker 5: thought any director, any senior manager worth their salt, would
Speaker 5: know at it. I mean, as a minimum, surely they
Speaker 5: would have asked, hey, we sell all these big, down, down,
Speaker 5: down price campaigns. Are they affecting our profits or not?
Speaker 5: And it seems that they didn't because they weren't really
Speaker 5: reducing their prices, So I am. And the behavior went
Speaker 5: on for well every year, probably much longer. It was
Speaker 5: systematic because across numerous product product categories. So it's hard
Speaker 5: to see how senior executives and indeed members of the
Speaker 5: board didn't know and didn't know that. This is a
Speaker 5: standard illegality under the consumer law. It's mentioned even if
Speaker 5: you do high school consumer law. This is one of
Speaker 5: the behaviors that's cited off and false discounts.
Speaker 2: Do you think there should be some accountability for them
Speaker 2: personally if it's found that they did know.
Speaker 5: Yes, the competition and consumer law is quite clear that
Speaker 5: people who in a business that participate or simply help
Speaker 5: or know about aid and abent some behavior, they're liable.
Speaker 5: So I think consideration should be given to taking out
Speaker 5: liability and the form of fines and so on to
Speaker 5: individuals who were knowingly involved, no matter what their level
Speaker 5: in the business.
Speaker 2: Do you think that is something the HP will see
Speaker 2: The current leadership there would be considering.
Speaker 5: Well, they've done it in other cases. I also think
Speaker 5: that they're now in a position where a lot more
Speaker 5: information will have to be provided to them by Cole's
Speaker 5: and Woolli's, and that information may bring out individual culpability.
Speaker 2: That's quite strong, comments former chair of the HP c
Speaker 2: Alan Fels, joining us now saying that if senior management
Speaker 2: at Cole's or Willwards knew about this, then they should
Speaker 2: be personally liable and accountable and even face fines as well.
Speaker 2: Do you think that if this is proven and it
Speaker 2: looks like it would because the case is so strong,
Speaker 2: the figures are so clear cut. Do you think the
Speaker 2: fines would have to be so large to deter the
Speaker 2: companies and others like it from engaging in this sort
Speaker 2: of conduct in the future.
Speaker 5: In short, yes, And I just go back on one
Speaker 5: point that very often when they're caught doing this, companies
Speaker 5: just cave in agreeance happen, get the thing into court
Speaker 5: settled quickly. I just see some signs of reluctance by
Speaker 5: Coles and Woolies to do that, and I suspect it's
Speaker 5: because not because they're worried about fines, but because of
Speaker 5: individual liability. The top people probably very unwilling to just
Speaker 5: walk into court with that around their neck. But on
Speaker 5: your biggot point, I think it's obvious if the claims
Speaker 5: hold up, that there will be very large fines for
Speaker 5: the businesses because the business is tender. Regard it as
Speaker 5: a cost.
Speaker 6: Of doing business.
Speaker 4: We're going to do something.
Speaker 5: Very profitable, there's a low cost, low probability of being caught,
Speaker 5: and the fines aren't that big, so our calculus is
Speaker 5: it's worth taking the risk. Now, recently the law was
Speaker 5: changed that a court in setting a fine can take
Speaker 5: into account this cost of doing business. Psychology and set
Speaker 5: a really high fine. That means that companies will pay
Speaker 5: so much that they have to take real notice of
Speaker 5: breaking the law.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they'd have to change practices, so potentially hundreds
Speaker 2: of millions of dollars presumably, Alan Fell's really appreciate your
Speaker 2: time and insights tonight. Thank you. Now still to come.
Speaker 2: We thought the pandemic made us miserable, but according to
Speaker 2: new analysis, we are now more miserable. I'll tell you
Speaker 2: I a little later, plus two months on from the
Speaker 2: horrific Gollen Heights attack, and the community is still really
Speaker 2: mourning the twelve Israeli Drew's children who were killed by Hesblah.
Speaker 2: I'm going to speak right after the break with one
Speaker 2: of the mothers who lost her little girl. Stay tuned,
Speaker 2: welcome back. Well, no one knows more about the threat
Speaker 2: of Hesbela than the parents of the twelve children who
Speaker 2: were happily playing soccer when they were massacred. A Hesbela
Speaker 2: strike killed these beautiful twelve young children and injured twenty others.
Speaker 2: The mother I'm about to speak with had three children
Speaker 2: outdoors playing on the day the Hesbela strike hit. Here
Speaker 2: was how that missile hit her community in marj Del
Speaker 2: Charms in northern Israel.
Speaker 8: W Hey Hey and me.
Speaker 2: And her daughter Alma was among the twelve young children killed.
Speaker 2: Nayala fakr Alden joins me. Now, Nayella, firstly, we are
Speaker 2: so terribly sorry for your lost such an unnecessary tragedy day,
Speaker 2: and thank you for having the courage to speak about
Speaker 2: this just a couple of months later. Can you take
Speaker 2: us back to July twenty seven and what happened that day.
Speaker 9: Thank you sheriff for having me in the meeting, and
Speaker 9: thank you for your condolences. I appreciate a lot, and
Speaker 9: I wish none of us will will live like this experience.
Speaker 9: It's really hard to express.
Speaker 2: And hard to.
Speaker 9: Talk about it. On the Saturday on July twenty seventh,
Speaker 9: a tragedy had been that that might can hardly comprehend.
Speaker 9: It claimed the lives of twelve angels. There are ages
Speaker 9: between ten and sixteen years old. On the day, everything
Speaker 9: was normal. In the morning. I brought her breakfast, kissed
Speaker 9: her and woke her up. She told me, Mom, I
Speaker 9: feel like having a breakfast in the balcony, and that's
Speaker 9: exactly what we did. Later that day, I was attending
Speaker 9: in relatives, wedding.
Speaker 14: And our house.
Speaker 9: Their house actually had a view of my se chance. Suddenly,
Speaker 9: the warning seriens went on and a few seconds later
Speaker 9: the exeplusion occurred. I felt like the explosion happened in
Speaker 9: my heart.
Speaker 2: You could feels so instinctively feel like it was something worse.
Speaker 9: Sure, I'm talking to you right now, and I feel
Speaker 9: the beating of my heart. It's really something hard to
Speaker 9: leave it again, It's really hard.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, sorry, thank you for reliving it again to
Speaker 2: share the story.
Speaker 9: I have to because I have a message for Alma
Speaker 9: to reach her voice to the whole world. Alma and
Speaker 9: the others. Of course, I immediately started running and crying,
Speaker 9: not knowing why I started running. And I know my children,
Speaker 9: Ryan and Eleanne were at the field. So Ryanne called
Speaker 9: me and said, Mom, we are okay, don't worry about us.
Speaker 9: He also spoke to her to his father and reassure
Speaker 9: him that they are okay. But my heart keep bounding
Speaker 9: and the tears keeped falling, and I don't know why.
Speaker 9: I called Alma to check on her. Alma didn't answer.
Speaker 9: I thought that she as usual, dancing, sleeping, watching movie.
Speaker 9: So I went down to my house downstairs to the
Speaker 9: second floor. I opened the first room, There's no Alma.
Speaker 9: The second room, Alma on the roof, No Alma. There
Speaker 9: was no Alma. I hobely wanted to hear her voice.
Speaker 9: Tell me, Mom, I'm here, don't worry. I am afraid,
Speaker 9: but I am not here. I am There was no
Speaker 9: answer there. There was no Alma here.
Speaker 2: So how did you learn that beautiful Alma was among
Speaker 2: those he'd been killed?
Speaker 9: I called Aman, my husband, and I told him I
Speaker 9: am an Alma isn't answering, and Alma isn't at home.
Speaker 9: He told me he had arrived to the to the blackground.
Speaker 9: I went down to the blackground also and asked about her.
Speaker 9: They told me there there were no girls among the
Speaker 9: victims at the moment. I was calling her all the time,
Speaker 9: but she still wasn't answering. One time, I can remember
Speaker 9: that her phone rang and was busy, so I felt
Speaker 9: a little comfortable that maybe she's talking to someone else.
Speaker 9: But no, no, no, my heart tell me something else
Speaker 9: that if she could call someone, she's going to call
Speaker 9: me first. At this time, I'm arrived to the field
Speaker 9: and was carrying her his Elma and his arms. I
Speaker 9: waited a bit and went to that clinic mini hospital
Speaker 9: in my town. They told me she was in one
Speaker 9: of the rooms. Actually, I told them I wanted to
Speaker 9: go and I was ready for any possibility, but just
Speaker 9: needed to be by her side, telling her I'm here, mom,
Speaker 9: I'm holding her hand and comforting her. Unfortunately, everyone knew,
Speaker 9: everyone know, but no one had the carriage to tell
Speaker 9: me that she's gone. Its so one of my ilities, yes, yes,
Speaker 9: one of the of my relatives took my hand and
Speaker 9: tell me, you have to be strong. Then I was shocked,
Speaker 9: and I know that something bad happened.
Speaker 2: I saw her, Sherry, I.
Speaker 9: Saw my angel. She was living like an angel, with
Speaker 9: her beautiful face like she used to just sleep the
Speaker 9: same way. I started to cry a lot, to cry
Speaker 9: and to cry and cry. But I remember very well
Speaker 9: that I pray for her and telled her that I wish,
Speaker 9: I wish my prayers that God have mercy on her
Speaker 9: and send you and send you kind.
Speaker 14: Souls just like the way you were to us.
Speaker 9: Kissed her and tell her God gives us and God
Speaker 9: takes from us. We accept our destiny.
Speaker 2: Nailah, really beautiful. Yes, I'm so so sorry you have
Speaker 2: been through this with sending all our love to you
Speaker 2: in northern Israel. I don't know how you continue on
Speaker 2: as a mother to two other children with what's happened
Speaker 2: to your daughter, Alma. There's no reason for this tragedy,
Speaker 2: no reason for the Hasbelas strike, and we just send
Speaker 2: you all of our love and all of our prayers
Speaker 2: and strength to keep going. Thank you very much for
Speaker 2: speaking out tonight. I can see how difficult it is.
Speaker 14: Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 2: This is what they're dealing with in Israel. And by
Speaker 2: the way, Nayala is from the Juruis community, not Jewish.
Speaker 2: By the way, this is affecting all of Israel, and
Speaker 2: yet the international community says Israel should just put up
Speaker 2: with this and shouldn't fight back against Hezbela try and
Speaker 2: remove the threat. I mean, this is why it's important
Speaker 2: to bring these interviews to you now after the break,
Speaker 2: how Labor is reacting to today's inflation data and what
Speaker 2: it means for the upcoming election. My political panel will
Speaker 2: join me next right, plenty more to get through tonight.
Speaker 2: Let's bring in our political panel, Labor MP Daniel Malino
Speaker 2: and Liberal MP Andrew Wallace. Welcome to you both. Look,
Speaker 2: let's turn to today's inflation data falling to two point
Speaker 2: seven percent. Daniel, there is criticism that this is just
Speaker 2: a temporary drop. What's your response to this.
Speaker 1: Well, Hi Sharian, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 8: So look, I think it is welcome that the headline
Speaker 8: inflation number came down, But the number that I actually
Speaker 8: looked at first was what happened to the trimmed mean inflation.
Speaker 8: And as we all know, the RBA is really focused
Speaker 8: on core or underlying inflation, and that dropped from three
Speaker 8: point eight to three point four. And indeed, if you
Speaker 8: look at the last couple of months, it came down
Speaker 8: from four point one in June to three point eight
Speaker 8: last month to three point four.
Speaker 1: So the trajectory is good.
Speaker 8: Now, of course you've got to be careful with monthly readings,
Speaker 8: but we're seeing core inl heading in the right direction
Speaker 8: and getting close to that two to three band, and
Speaker 8: that's really what the RBA is focused on. And the
Speaker 8: RBA is said all along that its interest rate rises
Speaker 8: are having an impact, but also that the government surpluses
Speaker 8: are helping in this fight against inflation. The fight against
Speaker 8: inflation is the number one economic priority, and I think
Speaker 8: today's numbers reflect the fact that the Government and the
Speaker 8: RBA are working together and that we're on the right path.
Speaker 2: Andrew Wallace, do you give the government credit for the
Speaker 2: fact that the underlying inflation has come down from three
Speaker 2: point eight to three point four percent.
Speaker 15: Well, it's good that the headline inflation has come down
Speaker 15: to three point four percent, But Michelle Bullock has bilt
Speaker 15: the cap. She's consistently said that, look, it doesn't matter
Speaker 15: what sort of measures that Jim Chalmers is putting in
Speaker 15: as temporary measures to try and get a sugar hit.
Speaker 15: She's looking to see those inflation levels come down and
Speaker 15: stay down. And she herself has said that one swallow
Speaker 15: does not make a spring, and this reduction just in
Speaker 15: the last couple of months is not giving her any
Speaker 15: comfort that it's going to stay down. So it's pretty
Speaker 15: clear from Michelle Bollyoke that she's not going to move
Speaker 15: on a reduction of interest rates anytime soon, because clearly
Speaker 15: she is concerned about that sugar hip that we may
Speaker 15: be experiencing right now.
Speaker 2: Well, there's new research that says that Australians haven't been
Speaker 2: so miserable in over a decade. This is called the
Speaker 2: misery index and it measures inflation's interest rates, unemployment and
Speaker 2: other factors to then determine the national mood, and it
Speaker 2: says that we're living through the most protracted period of
Speaker 2: economic misery since twenty eleven. Daniel, you know you don't
Speaker 2: really need research to know that families are doing it
Speaker 2: tough at the moment.
Speaker 8: Well, exactly, I was going to say, Shari, Look, I
Speaker 8: remember the misery index from back when I was both
Speaker 8: an undergraduate and when I was teaching economics, and we
Speaker 8: used to have a simple misery index which was unemployment
Speaker 8: plus inflation. But as you say, look, I don't think
Speaker 8: either I, nor Andrew nor other members of parliament or
Speaker 8: members of the community need that index to.
Speaker 1: Know that people are doing it tough.
Speaker 8: But just going back to a comment I made previously,
Speaker 8: that's why fighting inflation is so critical, because high inflation
Speaker 8: is going to be the most damaging economic phenomenon for
Speaker 8: people's quality of life. So it's imperative that we bring
Speaker 8: inflation back to the two to three percent band. But
Speaker 8: also when you think about the misery index, which is
Speaker 8: inflation and unemployment, what we're trying to do is to
Speaker 8: bring inflation down with the minimum increase in unemployment possible.
Speaker 8: So I think we have seen a lot of progress
Speaker 8: on inflation, and while there is a lot of difficulty
Speaker 8: out in the community, I would simply say that it's
Speaker 8: a good thing that unemployment hasn't risen as much as
Speaker 8: many forecasts had predicted.
Speaker 1: So people are doing it tough.
Speaker 8: That's why we've put in place so many cost of
Speaker 8: living measures, which often the opposition criticized but won't tell
Speaker 8: us which ones they'd get rid of. But people are
Speaker 8: doing it tough.
Speaker 2: But Andrew, I mean, the reality is it doesn't look
Speaker 2: like inflation is going to come down to the target
Speaker 2: band until at least the end of next year twenty six. Well, yes, exactly,
Speaker 2: So we're not looking at a rate cut anytime soon.
Speaker 15: No, and Shari, as I make my way around electorate
Speaker 15: and in fact I was up in North Queensland yesterday
Speaker 15: and the same applies families. Everybody that I talk to
Speaker 15: is talking about one thing and one thing only, and
Speaker 15: that's cost of living. And look, I like Daniel, but
Speaker 15: I think on this point is he's got it wrong
Speaker 15: because it's because of the policies of this government that
Speaker 15: we are seeing interest R remaining higher for longer. If
Speaker 15: you compare astral to other advanced economies, the US, New Zealand, Canada.
Speaker 15: You know we are we have higher inflation and many
Speaker 15: advanced economies and those those countries are seeing reduction interest rights,
Speaker 15: but we're not seeing them here and we're not seeing
Speaker 15: them failed economic policies of this way of government.
Speaker 2: All right, and the political fight over this will continue.
Speaker 2: Daniel Malino Andrew Wallace really appreciate your time. Thank you. Now,
Speaker 2: after the break, we'll go live to tell Aviv for
Speaker 2: the latest on the war between Israel and Hasbela. Stay tuned,
Speaker 2: all right, let's bring in now live from Tel Aviv,
Speaker 2: Israeli news anchor Littel, SCHAMESH. Littel. Great to see you again. Look,
Speaker 2: can you tell us about the news today? Unprecedented a
Speaker 2: has ballistic missile in Tel Aviv. What happened?
Speaker 14: Yes, so we.
Speaker 16: Had an alarm at around six thirty in the morning.
Speaker 16: It's actually the first time that we are getting rockets
Speaker 16: from Lebanon towards aiming towards Tel Aviv. We got sirens
Speaker 16: in Tel Aviv in the past, rockets that are coming
Speaker 16: from Gaza. But it's actually the first time that chrisbala
Speaker 16: is firing Tel Aviv.
Speaker 14: One of the heads of Risbellae is.
Speaker 16: Saying today we were aiming Israeli Mosad. It was basically
Speaker 16: just one rocket, and they're claiming that it was a.
Speaker 14: Response for the Beepers operation.
Speaker 16: But you have to understand, Israel is striking the south
Speaker 16: of Lebanon and Lebanon for the past three days, striking
Speaker 16: Risbela facilities, weapons facilities and taking.
Speaker 14: Down the heads of Risbella.
Speaker 16: Just last week we saw the elimination of Ibra Ibra
Speaker 16: Mkil was the head of operations of Chris Bla.
Speaker 14: He was wanted.
Speaker 16: There was a bounty on his head by the US government,
Speaker 16: a bounty of seven million dollars.
Speaker 14: He was responsible off the killing of.
Speaker 16: Hundreds of Americans in the embassy, the American embassy in Beirut.
Speaker 14: So the matter of fact, Israel.
Speaker 16: Is doing an amazing job, not just helping the safety
Speaker 16: of Israel, but also taking heads of Chrisboela that were
Speaker 16: responsible for a variety of attacks, killing American citizens, killing
Speaker 16: French citizens.
Speaker 14: And the operation goes on.
Speaker 2: Yet we've seen the international community put pressure on Israel
Speaker 2: to de escalate. How can the international community, including by
Speaker 2: the way, our Foreign Minister here in Australia. How can
Speaker 2: they expect Israel to do nothing when there's been this
Speaker 2: almost daily constant barrage from Hesbela ever since October seven.
Speaker 16: Exactly constant barrage. We're talking about hundreds of missiles who
Speaker 16: are being fired from the south of Lebanon by his
Speaker 16: Bala towards Israel on daily basis. This is actually the
Speaker 16: first time that we are seeing Israel striking back and
Speaker 16: striking hard, and the people of Israel are saying, eventually,
Speaker 16: after eleven months of getting rockets aiming towards US, Israel
Speaker 16: is doing something, and Israel is taking down heads of Chrisbala.
Speaker 16: Israel is taking down weapons, weapons and missiles, and according
Speaker 16: to our recent recent headlines, Israel managed to take down
Speaker 16: at least fifty percent of the rockets that Isbelah has.
Speaker 16: We cannot allow ourselves to get people to leave in
Speaker 16: their houses. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of people
Speaker 16: who are evacuated from their houses in the northern part
Speaker 16: of Israel, and they will not be able to return
Speaker 16: to their house safely if we won't take down all
Speaker 16: of US missiles facilities Letta.
Speaker 2: I've only got about forty seconds left, and I just
Speaker 2: want to ask you, is there concern that Iran will
Speaker 2: now step in to help Hezbella.
Speaker 16: There is a major concern, and that's why the US
Speaker 16: is sending more equipments because the US at the moment,
Speaker 16: as you've said, they don't want to see any escalations. Obviously,
Speaker 16: the upcoming elections in America on November fifth is also
Speaker 16: a major factor of them.
Speaker 14: Don't want to see an escalation.
Speaker 16: And if you're asking me, the only way to prevent
Speaker 16: a larger war is to strike his Belah and to
Speaker 16: get them to surrender.
Speaker 14: That's the only.
Speaker 16: Way we will achieve any sort of agreements on our border.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Letoshamesh really appreciate your time. Thank you.
Speaker 2: I'll see you tomorrow at eight o'clock. And here is
Speaker 2: Pomar