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Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to Bounce Forward with me.

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Speaker 2: Tip four, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional custody into

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Speaker 2: the land in which I'm.

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Speaker 1: Recording this podcasts, So we're undring people of the cooler nation.

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Speaker 1: I pay my respects to elders past and present.

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Speaker 2: Now today we're hitting up part two of my chat

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Speaker 2: with Lindy Cohen, the Nude Nutritionist, and there is so

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Speaker 2: much to chat about, so let's get stuck straight into it.

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Speaker 2: I've heard of you talk about different types of hunger,

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Speaker 2: emotional hunger, mouth hunger.

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Speaker 1: Can you explain these a little bit better for us?

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Speaker 3: Well, physical hunger is the one we're all familiar with, right,

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Speaker 3: It's when we go, okay, there's a little pang in

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Speaker 3: my stomach. But if you are a dieter, you might

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Speaker 3: not even know what hunger feels like because typically we

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Speaker 3: eat in case of hunger because hunger has felt so

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Speaker 3: scary to us, we've let ourselves get so hungry in

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Speaker 3: the past. We can eat preemptively. We go I don't

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Speaker 3: want to get hungry, so I eat in case of hunger.

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Speaker 3: And so I think it's about forming a healthier relationship

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Speaker 3: with hunger as well. Ideally, you are going to be

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Speaker 3: hungry before every single time you eat. You know, You're

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Speaker 3: not just hop into the bathroom and going you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm just gonna wing in and see if something comes out.

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Speaker 3: You are waiting until you feel the urge do we

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Speaker 3: to go to the toilet, And generally we're waiting until

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Speaker 3: we get tired before we go to sleep. So I

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Speaker 3: want the same to be for hunger. You should be

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Speaker 3: feeling really hungry before every time you eat, so we

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Speaker 3: can start to develop that healthier relationship with hunger and

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Speaker 3: comfortable fullness. It can help you eat to comfortable fullness

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Speaker 3: and not overeat. If you're not letting yourself get comfortably hungry,

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Speaker 3: then you might be someone who goes I just can't

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Speaker 3: stop eating once the food's there. It's just so delicious,

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Speaker 3: and you overeat again and you get stuck in that

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Speaker 3: all or nothing mindset. So the healthy relationship with physical

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Speaker 3: hunger is important now. Emotional hunger is a different thing.

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Speaker 3: You might say to me, But Lindy, I am eating chocolate,

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Speaker 3: I am eating all the things. I'm binging on them

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Speaker 3: all the time. They are constantly in my life. And

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Speaker 3: if you emotionally say yourself, oh I shouldn't have done that.

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Speaker 3: I really screwed up. That was way too many calories.

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Speaker 3: That was naughty. That was bad. I'm really gonna have

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Speaker 3: to be good tomorrow. This is emotional restriction, and it

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Speaker 3: causes emotional hunger, and that emotional hunger is what drives

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Speaker 3: us to have these intense, constant cravings. Cravings are normal, right,

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Speaker 3: we all have craves. If it feels constant, if you

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Speaker 3: don't see any varians in it, and it feels very powerful,

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Speaker 3: then I think there is a large degree of emotional

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Speaker 3: restriction probably going on for you. And while you have

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Speaker 3: emotional restriction, it's near impossible, No, it is impossible to

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Speaker 3: turn off this starvation switch. So your body remains thinking

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Speaker 3: that you're in this famine state, which means you have

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Speaker 3: that increased hunger, slow metabolism, and all the stuff we

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Speaker 3: talked about. So helping to eliminate the diet voice inside

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Speaker 3: your brain says why I shouldn't be doing this, and

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Speaker 3: having to retorts to come back at it, so that

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Speaker 3: it can start to rewire. Your brain will will rewire,

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Speaker 3: You'll start to think differently about food so it doesn't

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Speaker 3: feel so exhausting. I think it's a way to go.

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Speaker 3: I will just say as well, I think diets are

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Speaker 3: very easy to start. They get very hard to maintain.

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Speaker 3: What I talk about is the opposite. The hardest it

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Speaker 3: is getting started. You're learning how to think differently about food,

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Speaker 3: learning about your hunger. Oh my goodness, it can feel

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Speaker 3: like a lot. But the longer you do this easier,

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Speaker 3: the more intuitive, the more relaxed you become, and that

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Speaker 3: is what makes it sustainable over the long term.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's amazing advice and emotional restriction. I'd never thought

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Speaker 2: of it in terms like that, and even I've had

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Speaker 2: it moments in my life where you know, I come

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Speaker 2: from a sport that is weight divisions and we would

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Speaker 2: have to diet for weight divisions and getting out of

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Speaker 2: that mindset and still sometimes thinking oh, I shouldn't have

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Speaker 2: that food. There are good and bad foods, and it

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Speaker 2: is something that is exhausting.

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Speaker 1: And fatiguing, and it's just, oh, not a happy life,

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Speaker 1: is it.

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Speaker 2: So it's a.

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Speaker 3: Binge eating, And yeah, I want people to know that

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Speaker 3: binge eating is a very normal, natural response to when

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Speaker 3: your body fears that food is not plentiful. It is

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Speaker 3: so normal and so incredibly common, and some people like

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Speaker 3: me have binge eating disorder. In fact, I was I

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Speaker 3: had extreme binge eating disorder, and some of us just

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Speaker 3: b ed occasionally when we notice that restriction gets a

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Speaker 3: little bit more intense and irrespective if you're having any binges,

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Speaker 3: what I'm teaching you is going to be able to

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Speaker 3: reduce the binges so that they don't happen anymore.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, and that feeling, that starving stuffing cycle, and

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Speaker 2: that feeling that that food will never be there, like chocolate.

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Speaker 2: And then I saw a fantastic tip on your Instagram

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Speaker 2: where you said, buy three packets of chocolate and just

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Speaker 2: have it there. It's not going to run out, like

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Speaker 2: you can have a little bit and you know you

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Speaker 2: don't have to eat the whole block.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is such a great packet principle because what

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Speaker 3: we do as a dieter we go, oh, I'm just

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Speaker 3: going to finish the pack so it's not a temptation

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Speaker 3: and I'll start fresh tomorrow. This is so the common

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Speaker 3: thinking trap of the all or nothing diet. So the

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Speaker 3: three packet principle gets in the way of that, because

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Speaker 3: even if I finish this packet, I have two more packets,

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Speaker 3: and even if I finish the next packet, there's another packet,

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Speaker 3: and you have to commit to this process and you

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Speaker 3: keep having to rebuy, but with time you will stop

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Speaker 3: being as obsessed with food. I talk about this in

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Speaker 3: my book. There is a study called the Macaroni and

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Speaker 3: Cheese Study. What they did is they gave participants macaroni

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Speaker 3: and cheese delicious. Yeah, I love mac and cheese, and

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Speaker 3: they said, eat as much as you want. And what

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Speaker 3: do you know, as the days went on, the participants

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Speaker 3: ate less and less. The beginning they gorged themselves and

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Speaker 3: then at the end they're like, oh, you know what,

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Speaker 3: I know, mac and cheese is always available to me.

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Speaker 3: I can eat it whenever I want. This is what

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Speaker 3: I want you to do with every single food you

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Speaker 3: feel a little bit crazy about, like the example of

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Speaker 3: eating peanut butter in a restaurant, by giving yourself permission

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Speaker 3: to it. You think, I'm just gonna if I give

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Speaker 3: myself permission to eat whatever I want, I'm not going

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Speaker 3: to be able to stop. I'm going to gain so

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Speaker 3: much weight. And this is the fear, the thing that

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Speaker 3: stops us from doing this, But in fact, the exact

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Speaker 3: opposite happens. We start to go oh, mac and cheese,

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Speaker 3: that's just another food. Anytime I want mac and cheese,

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Speaker 3: I can have it. And this is a phrase I

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Speaker 3: really want you to use. Anytime I want this food,

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Speaker 3: I can have it, and you have to truly mean it.

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Speaker 3: If there is emotional restriction going on, it's going to

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Speaker 3: sabotage this thinking. But that full permission allows your body

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Speaker 3: to go, oh, okay, I know it's in the fridge.

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Speaker 3: I'm now the person who can have Natella Bisco chocolate.

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Speaker 3: I can have all foods in my house, whereas before

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Speaker 3: I used to, they used to all get destroyed and gone.

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Speaker 3: And being jeating is one of those things. If you

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Speaker 3: don't get support, if you don't take action, it gets worse.

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Speaker 3: With time, it gets worse. And so that's how I

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Speaker 3: got to the point that I was been jeating multiple

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Speaker 3: times a day, So you can't diet yourself out of it.

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Speaker 2: Lastly, I want to pick your brain a little bit

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Speaker 2: about weight loss, because you know, there's this big push

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Speaker 2: I've seen on social media lately in trainers and influencers saying, look,

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Speaker 2: you have to be in a calorie deficit to lose weight,

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Speaker 2: which is true. So what are your feelings about tracking

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Speaker 2: foods and tracking apps? Are they harmful? How do you

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Speaker 2: suggest people approach if they do want to lose a

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Speaker 2: little bit of weight, like knowing their food intake? How

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Speaker 2: do you do that?

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Speaker 3: So, I mean, I've lost a bunch of weight twice.

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Speaker 3: One was once I recovered from binge eating disorder. You know,

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Speaker 3: I was now much heavier, and I over a very

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Speaker 3: long period of time, I lost twenty kilograms. So I

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Speaker 3: got back to weight. I was go, Okay, this is comfortable.

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Speaker 3: And then recently I had my kids, and with each

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Speaker 3: of my kids, I gained about twelve kilograms, and over

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Speaker 3: the year that followed afterwards, I've now just been going

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Speaker 3: chipping away. And you know, I think the non diet

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Speaker 3: world can be so anti weight loss or any talk

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Speaker 3: about weight loss, that we totally ignore the elephant in

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Speaker 3: the room, which is that if we don't talk about

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Speaker 3: healthy ways to achieve long term sustainable weight loss, people

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Speaker 3: just run back to diets and extreme approaches. That I'm

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Speaker 3: against stream approaches on either ends of the spectrum. Now,

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Speaker 3: what I think is we kind of need to trick

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Speaker 3: ourselves into losing weight. I think so people create this

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Speaker 3: goal weight and I'm very much against the idea of

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Speaker 3: tracking our calories and tracking our weight. I think it

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Speaker 3: is near and possible to do those activities without becoming

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Speaker 3: preoccupied with them and wanting to do it daily and

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Speaker 3: then you know, then lying in bed at night doing

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Speaker 3: the arithmetic of what we ate that day or yeah,

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Speaker 3: fitness power kind of stuff. So I don't think that

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Speaker 3: that is the way to do it. I think instead

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Speaker 3: of the goal weight, we need to determine a goal

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Speaker 3: lifestyle and what is the lifestyle that you want to lead?

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Speaker 3: Credit Pinterest board of that lifestyle. What are you doing,

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Speaker 3: what you what places are you going, what are you eating?

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Speaker 3: Kind of imagine it and don't get sucked into the

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Speaker 3: wellness girly Instagram trap of you know, the perfect days

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Speaker 3: in the plate. That's not what I'm talking about. But

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Speaker 3: we're going to start to take little actions to get

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Speaker 3: you closer to that lifestyle that your goal lifestyle that

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Speaker 3: you want. And the beauty of this is it means

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Speaker 3: that it should all be sustainable, it should be doable.

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Speaker 3: I want you to make little habit tweaks, bit by

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Speaker 3: bit instead of focusing on what you're not allowed to have.

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Speaker 3: I'm all about crowding crowding is the act of adding,

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Speaker 3: not restricting. So eat more vegetables, eat more fruit. I

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Speaker 3: think you know, the fear mongering we've had around carbohydrates

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Speaker 3: around fruit means that I'm not loudly carbohydrates for lunch

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Speaker 3: and then we faceplane into the pantry and we eat

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Speaker 3: all the chocolate. But what if you ate a sandwich

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Speaker 3: for lunch and that was really satisfying and you actually finished,

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Speaker 3: you felt full, and you felt emotionally satisfied. I think,

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Speaker 3: like I talked about those sacrificial calories, you're probably going

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Speaker 3: to eat less and not go crazy around food at nighttime.

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Speaker 3: When you integrated some chocolate into your afternoon snack, and

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Speaker 3: then we build it out with a handful of fruit,

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Speaker 3: a handful of nuts. You pop it on a plate,

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Speaker 3: because binge eating doesn't happen on a plate. It always

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Speaker 3: happens like a squirrel in the pantry. So pop it

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Speaker 3: on a plate, and then you're going to find that

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Speaker 3: all right, Maybe I skipped a binch, okay, And if you,

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Speaker 3: as I said, you add in two hundred calories, you

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Speaker 3: save two thousand. Many people who stop binge eating, who

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Speaker 3: break free of the all or nothing mindset, naturally do

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Speaker 3: go on to lose weight, but you're not going to

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Speaker 3: lose weight by continuing to do that restrictive dieting. And

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Speaker 3: I'd say to anyone who goes, well the calorie counting

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Speaker 3: thing does work, I'd say, well, if it worked, wouldn't

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Speaker 3: you be your goal weight by now? If it truly worked,

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Speaker 3: you'd be maintaining that weight. And only a very small

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Speaker 3: number of people can actually maintain that weight. I would

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Speaker 3: argue for many people it is through obsessive and sheer,

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Speaker 3: just like grit. And what I'm interested in is to

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Speaker 3: help you be healthy but not sacrifice ninety five percent

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Speaker 3: of your life to weigh five percent less. So it's

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Speaker 3: also this idea of finding a weight that is comfy

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Speaker 3: for you, and you might not be your leaner self,

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Speaker 3: but your life is good. Your thoughts don't keep coming

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Speaker 3: back to food. You're not obsessed with how many reps

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Speaker 3: you get at the gym. Health is something that makes

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Speaker 3: your life better, not something that gets in the way

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Speaker 3: of you living your lid life. That's what I'm interested in,

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Speaker 3: and I think over time I help people find their

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Speaker 3: happy weight, which is probably not the way you wait

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Speaker 3: in high school, and it's probably not your way to

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Speaker 3: your wedding day, but it is a weight that you

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Speaker 3: feel comfiat and where your weight is non issue, it

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Speaker 3: doesn't it's not something you have to think about. That

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Speaker 3: is my goal and what I help people do, that's

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Speaker 3: a fantastic goal. So lastly, I just want to ask

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Speaker 3: you about alcohol. I don't drink myself, so it is hard.

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Speaker 3: It's hard for me to relate to this. But what

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Speaker 3: is the connection between alcohol.

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Speaker 1: And weight loss? And I mean, you know, are people

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Speaker 1: drinking too much?

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Speaker 2: And is that something that they should assess.

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Speaker 3: I mean, absolutely people are drinking way too much. I

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Speaker 3: used to have chronic anxiety and then I stopped drinking,

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Speaker 3: and then I had no anxiety. And I just wish

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Speaker 3: someone had told me that will transform your life, This

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Speaker 3: seemingly small change will have this massive impact on you.

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Speaker 1: So you don't drink at all, Lidy, not anymore.

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Speaker 3: Now. I had my kids, and I realize anxiety poof

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Speaker 3: it disappeared when I was pregnant, and I was wondering

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Speaker 3: is it hormonal or is it just the only time

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Speaker 3: in my life where I've gone an extended period of

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Speaker 3: time and not drunk alcohol. So I had to do

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Speaker 3: the experiments. So I've been doing like a booze break

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Speaker 3: now for like a year and a half foremost no

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Speaker 3: longer too, and I love it now. When it comes

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Speaker 3: to weight, you know, we talk about alcohol being empty calories,

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Speaker 3: but I also think that don't quit alcohol to lose weight.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that is the right reason to do it.

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Speaker 3: Reduce alcohol because you like how it makes you feel,

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Speaker 3: because you like waking up with energy, because you're going

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Speaker 3: to trade a handful of tipsy moments for feel good

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Speaker 3: high that honestly doesn't wear off. Now that I don't drink,

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Speaker 3: I go why would I trade how good I feel

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Speaker 3: for a drink for a little more feeling. It's just

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Speaker 3: that little blip is not worth how good I feel.

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Speaker 3: And then just become curious about going. Okay, well, these

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Speaker 3: people feel pretty smug about their alcohol free life. Maybe

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Speaker 3: there's something in it. And if you've never got a

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Speaker 3: stint in your adult life where you haven't drunk alcohol,

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Speaker 3: just give it a well, just give it a well,

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Speaker 3: become curious if you did a little booze break how

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Speaker 3: good you could feel, because I think you could feel

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Speaker 3: bloody fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's such good advice. Well, Lindy, I just want

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Speaker 1: to ask you one more question.

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Speaker 2: I know I've been saying one more question, one more question,

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Speaker 2: but I love talking to you, and this question is

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Speaker 2: around a zepic and everything that's going on with a zempic.

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Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on it.

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Speaker 3: I think ozenbic is incredibly interesting at the moment. I

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Speaker 3: think ozenbic can change lives. One of my issues is

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Speaker 3: I don't think we know the long term impacts of ozeenpic,

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Speaker 3: so it kind of feels to me like this grand

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Speaker 3: social experiment that's happening at the moment. I know we

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Speaker 3: have doctors who really struggle with weight stigma, who are

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Speaker 3: going to totally miss the fact that the majority of

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Speaker 3: people who they are putting on ozenbi have underlying eating disorders.

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Speaker 3: You put them on ozebic and then at some point

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Speaker 3: they're going to have to come off ozembic and all

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Speaker 3: those eating disorder symptoms are still going to be there untreated,

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Speaker 3: And what do we think is going to happen. What

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Speaker 3: we see from the research is that the weight rebound

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Speaker 3: is just equivalent to any other methods we've seen before.

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Speaker 3: So it's the lack of long term planning. That really

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Speaker 3: blows my mind. So if you ask someone who is

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Speaker 3: on ozempic, I would highly encourage you to get support

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Speaker 3: for what may be an underlying binge eating disorder, which

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Speaker 3: is the most common eating disorder by a landslide, and

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Speaker 3: it is so underdiagnosed and misunderstood by doctors, so they're

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Speaker 3: not be eared up and you're not getting that adequate

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Speaker 3: emotional support that you need. I will also say that

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Speaker 3: one of the challenges is when someone's on ozempic, food

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Speaker 3: noise disappears, so that feeling disordered around food also disappears. Therefore,

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Speaker 3: the motivation to recover can also disappear as well. So

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Speaker 3: that is a bit of an interesting thing to consider.

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Speaker 3: But if you are going to come off ozebic, I

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Speaker 3: think there needs to be this long term strategy of Okay,

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Speaker 3: what are we going to do to create a healthier

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Speaker 3: relationship with food where we're no longer getting that rebound

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Speaker 3: we're seeing before.

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Speaker 1: Oh I'm so glad I asked that question. That was

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Speaker 1: great answer. One more thing I want to add as well.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a little bit scary we're seeing from

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Speaker 3: the research because ozembic slows gastric emptying what we're seeing

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Speaker 3: is huge malabsorption issues where like let's say calcium for example,

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Speaker 3: Let's say you're a woman who's our age, your thirties,

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Speaker 3: your forties, you're breastfeeding, well maybe not breastfeeding ozbic, but

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Speaker 3: calcium is an incredibly important nutrients and it's probably not

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Speaker 3: getting properly absorbed while you're on ozmbic. And then you

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Speaker 3: get to become a sixty year old woman who did

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Speaker 3: not get adequate calcium needs, and the bone density impacts

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Speaker 3: can be quite severe. And I don't think we're talking

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Speaker 3: about bone density because we can't see it, we can't

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Speaker 3: feel it until it's too Yes, we're not taking this

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Speaker 3: into consideration. So I'm very concerned about the mass, macro

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Speaker 3: and micronutury in deefficiencies that can emerge from taking ozebic,

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Speaker 3: especially when it's not done correctly.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Lindy, Thank you so much for coming on

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Speaker 2: Bounce Forward and.

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Speaker 1: For all of your tips and all of your advice.

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Speaker 1: It's just fantastic and transformative. Oh such a pleasure.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, dear, thanks so much for tuning in to

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Speaker 2: Bounce Forward. I love having your company, So please DM

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Speaker 2: me on Instagram at Tiphul Underscore XO.

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Speaker 1: Let me know any questions you'd love me to cover.

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Speaker 2: Don't forget to rate and review me on your podcast

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Speaker 2: app Speak soon, Happy days,