1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Rule is his life in crimes Now. We 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 1: tackled the thorny issue of youth crime recently, but since 3 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: then this topic has absolutely taken off. In my colleague 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 1: SHENNONDERI unearthed excellent new figures which show that youth crime 5 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: in Victoria has exploded. It's gone up one thousand percent 6 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: in a decade, and so the precise figures of these. 7 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: In the year twenty fifteen there were only one hundred 8 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: and nineteen youth crime offenders or offenses, and that figure 9 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: in the most recent financial year had leapt to twelve 10 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty, so just over one hundred to just 11 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 1: over twelve hundred, an amazing leap. We could all see 12 00:00:52,880 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: it coming. But the authorities and the officials, the apologistsandemic lawyers, 13 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: the senior police who were trying to massage the message 14 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: for politicians, they didn't really want to acknowledge it. They 15 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: wanted to say nothing to see here, this is not 16 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 1: a big deal. This is all about perspective and statistics 17 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: and this and that and the other thing. But the 18 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: brutal raw facts cannot be hidden anymore. And we know 19 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: that people who as recently as twenty eighteen or even later, 20 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: were pooh poohing the idea of youth gangs and youth 21 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: ethnic gangs and all the rest of it are now 22 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: either acknowledging they were wrong, or they have fallen silent. 23 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: They are saying nothing because the writing's on the wall. 24 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: And it struck me this week while I was away 25 00:01:55,080 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: in rural Victoria looking for the property the country high 26 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: away of an old murderer. Incidentally, it struck me while 27 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: I was driving back to Melbourne from the Country that 28 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: every phone call that I received while I was driving, 29 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: the person I spoke to, and these are all different people, 30 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: and I did not instigate the subject of conversation. It 31 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: just came up. Each person I spoke to in a 32 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: couple of hours brought up youth crime. And one guy, 33 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: ex detective, he said to me, all these young people 34 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: that were gathered at this demonstration in South Bank, you 35 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: know many of them were young, not all, but many 36 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: of them were young, and their lack of respect for 37 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: authority and for the police and for the community stands out. 38 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: They just don't care. And that is the same attitude 39 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: that we see in youth offenders. We see it with 40 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: the Eggbergs. We see it with the people who steal cars. 41 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: They break into your house with or without weapons, then 42 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: they take your keys, then they take your car. Then 43 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: they drive far because they'd lunatics and just want to 44 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: have the thrills. And of course sometimes they run into 45 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: innocent people and kill them. He just made that point 46 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: about that. The next conversation I had within twenty minutes 47 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: was with another caller who mentioned that someone they knew, 48 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: a relative or a friend, it doesn't matter. Someone they 49 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: knew had been drugged and mugged in the inner suburbs. 50 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: They'd been slipped some sort of drug which knocked them out, 51 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: maybe in a drink, I think, and they woke up 52 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: in a back lane uninjured, thank god. But their phone 53 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: was gone, their sneakers were gone, and their wallet was gone, 54 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: so their credit cards and everything was gone. So that 55 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: person saw as a youth crime thing. People who steal 56 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: sneakers are generally not you know, senior fifty year old criminals. 57 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: It's the young brigade. And then I got another call, 58 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: and this was from a woman who I'd arranged to 59 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: meet and to interview about the pet Gill family, the 60 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,839 Speaker 1: notorious Pett and Girls, Cath pet and Gill, of course, 61 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: is the mother of bad guys that were drug dealers 62 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: and killers and thieves and all the rest of it. 63 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: And I was to interview this woman about one of 64 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: those children, one who went straight interestingly, and the lady 65 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: rang up and was apologetic. He said, I can't meet 66 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: you today or tomorrow. I'm sorry. I'm at the hospital. 67 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: I said, oh, it's everything, okay. She said, I know. 68 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: It's not me. It's my son. He's been stabbed. Now 69 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: it turns out a son is an adult. He's not 70 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: a youth who's been fighting in the street. He's someone 71 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: in his thirties who's a social worker. And he's been 72 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: stabbed by some mad kid, by some teenager, and he's 73 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: in hospital and he ill survive, but it's sufficiently serious 74 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: that he's been in hospital several days, and his mother 75 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: he's visiting him because she's so concerned about him. That 76 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: was the third conversation I had in the space of 77 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: a couple of hours. Then I get to work, and 78 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: I get to the Herald's son office and I go 79 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: to my office and I'm sitting there working out what 80 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: to do, and along comes one of my colleagues and 81 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: she says, Oh, this is something you'd be interested in. 82 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: I said, what's that and she said, well, a friend 83 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: of mine is visiting Australia from England. He's doing the 84 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: big tour of Australia. He saved up his money, he 85 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: came out here recently and he bought a camp a 86 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: van and he's doing the trip of a lifetime around Australia. 87 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: And he thought it'd be great, and it was great 88 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: until he parked and camped at a spot near Newcastle 89 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: in New South Wales. Now this is not Victoria, but 90 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: it's you know, Australia's East Coast is probably similar in 91 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: many ways crime wise. And poor old mate from Yorkshire, 92 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: I think he's from. He's asleep in his nice camper 93 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: van that he bought and late at night, middle of 94 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: the night, after midnight, bang bang bang, very rough knock 95 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: and he thinks, oh, somebody's in trouble. They need help. 96 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: And he opens the door and says, oh, can I 97 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: help you, and three young men dragged him out at 98 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: knife point or machete point, dragged him out of the 99 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: car and said we're taking a van and he's just 100 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: wearing a pair of jocks. And one of them said oh, 101 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: let him put his jeans on and a jumper, but 102 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: he was still barefoot. He put on his jeans and 103 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: jump up, but was still barefoot. And they left him 104 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: there in the middle of the night, out somewhere, you know, 105 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: camping bush somewhere, and he had to go and find 106 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: other campus, and they of course didn't want to help 107 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: him because they were frightened that he was a bad guy. 108 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 1: And the bad guys, the three took his van and 109 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: they just trashed it. They drove it fast, then they 110 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: smashed it, and then they trashed it and they just 111 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: buged up his van. So this is the fourth conversation 112 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: I've had in one day to people I know, none 113 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: of whom know each other. And in each case they 114 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: have brought up the subject. I haven't raised it with them. 115 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: The fourth one, Oh God, there's a pattern here. The 116 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: damn has burst. And I thought of that, Hemingway saying. 117 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: Hemingway once said, you go broke slowly at first, and 118 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: then you go broke all at once. And I think 119 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: it's the same with this youth crime explosion. For years, 120 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: it was building up for years. We could see it coming, 121 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: and the naysayers said, oh, it's not that bad, it's 122 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,679 Speaker 1: not really happening much, etc. But all of a sudden 123 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: the levee has burst and we're surrounded by it. That 124 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: same day, same day, I'm thinking about this, and I'm 125 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: thinking I should write something about this, because Shennondery's story 126 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: with the statistics is being born out by personal experience. 127 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: It seems everybody I know he's got a story to tell. 128 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: And I ring an old friend of mine. He's by 129 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: way of being a cartoonist, and I rang him and 130 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: we had a chat about something, and he said, what 131 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: are you doing? And I said, I'm thinking about writing 132 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: something about youth crime, the rise in youth crime. He said, oh, 133 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: tell me about it. I said what he said, Oh, 134 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: I was in Williamstown the other day and I was 135 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: in a store there and this bunch of kids, a 136 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: bunch of teenagers they weal seen and just pick up 137 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff and then just brazenly steal it. 138 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: They just walked out of the shop without paying. And 139 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: he said. I went over to the counter and said, 140 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: did you see that? Did you see those kids? And 141 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: they said, yeah, we saw it, but we've been told 142 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: don't interfere, don't get in their way. It's not worth it, 143 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's not worth the risk, etc. And so 144 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: basically it seems that a lot of stores have got 145 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 1: that attitude that when certain groups steal stuff, they don't interfere, 146 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: they don't try and stop them. When they call the police, 147 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: the police know exactly who it is, but they've lost 148 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: the taste for the fight too, because a lot of 149 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: these kids are relatively young, and the police are tired 150 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: of grabbing them arresting them because they know that they 151 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: go into a revolving door where they just automatically get 152 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: bail because of their relative youth. Some listeners might think 153 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: that that's just a bald assertion that it's a revolving door, 154 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: and that we're exaggerating this. Well, you can think that, 155 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: but a person got in touch with me recently. Now, 156 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: this person, I've got to be careful not to identify 157 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: this person, but this person has a very good first 158 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: hand understanding of bail and bail justice work and all that. 159 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: This person is a sort of an official who gets 160 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: to see bail justices at work firsthand. This person named 161 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: a night and said, on that night, youth is brought 162 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: in by the police, clearly a problem child for the community, 163 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: steals cars, does Agberg's home invasions a real problem. You know, 164 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: a dangerous person in many ways and the potential to 165 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: hurt people because they steal cars and drive fast and 166 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: just go through red lights. They're very dangerous. And this 167 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: person said that youth was held for the night, but 168 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: next day he faced children's court and he faced a 169 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: magistrate and a bail application was made for him, and 170 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: the magistrate let him walk, put him back on the street. 171 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:48,959 Speaker 1: So nighttime, held overnight, next morning face caught. Magistrate says, yeah, 172 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 1: go in the revolving door. You're back on the street. 173 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: Guess what happened. By the night after that, that kid 174 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: was back in business. Let's to say he had a 175 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: big night out, been grabbed after stealing cars, home invasion. 176 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: He's grabbed, next day, faces court, he's released on bail, 177 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: he goes out. Let's say, within twenty four hours, does 178 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: the same stuff, same offenses. He's grabbed again. And so 179 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 1: by the next night, and I'm making those days up. 180 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: By the next night, he's back in custody. Now, whether 181 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: he stayed in custody or that third night, I don't know, 182 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: but on form he won't have because that youth. His 183 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: record of offenses is eight pages long of very closely 184 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:44,599 Speaker 1: typed material, so he has dozens and scores of offenses already, 185 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: which is staggering. But as my colleague Mark Butler points out, 186 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: there is a youth out there somewhere who has got 187 00:11:55,640 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: at least four hundred offenses on his record, his docket 188 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: as we used to call it, as four hundred offenses. 189 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: He will hit five hundred pretty rapidly and keep going 190 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: because at his age and stage, the magistrates are virtually 191 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: told to not lock them up, put them back on 192 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: the street, give them bail. And this is the problem. 193 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: And the person that contacted me, the whistleblower that contacted 194 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: me about this, is someone who is involved in that 195 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: process up close and personal, but feels that that level 196 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: bail justices and magistrates sort of had their hands tied 197 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: by policies imposed on them from above. And that is 198 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: the reality of youth crime in Victoria and to a 199 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: large extent in Australia. Thanks for listening. 200 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 2: Life and Crimes is a Sunday Herald Sun production for 201 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 2: True Crime Australia. Our producer is Johnty Burton. For my columns, 202 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 2: features and more, go to Haroldson dot com dot au, 203 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 2: forward slash, Andrew rule one word. For advertising inquiries, go 204 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 2: to news Podcasts sold at news dot com dot au. 205 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: That is all one word news podcast's sold. And if 206 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 2: you want further information about this episode, links are in 207 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 2: the description.