1 00:00:03,870 --> 00:00:06,510 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview, I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,510 --> 00:00:09,360 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. The soaring cost of living has seen plenty of 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,750 Sean Aylmer: people turn to creative ways of making some additional cash, 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,928 Sean Aylmer: and while we're often talking about the labor shortage with 5 00:00:15,929 --> 00:00:19,860 Sean Aylmer: the unemployment rates so low, apparently the flex economy is 6 00:00:19,860 --> 00:00:23,970 Sean Aylmer: seeing large spikes in people competing for extra work. Tim 7 00:00:23,970 --> 00:00:27,119 Sean Aylmer: Fung is the co- founder and Chief Executive Officer of 8 00:00:27,179 --> 00:00:29,729 Sean Aylmer: Airtasker. Tim, welcome back to Fear and Greed. 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:31,050 Tim Fung: Thanks for having me. 10 00:00:31,500 --> 00:00:35,068 Sean Aylmer: So tell me all about these spikes in people looking 11 00:00:35,070 --> 00:00:37,800 Sean Aylmer: for extra work. You're seeing a surge in people wanting 12 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,409 Sean Aylmer: to make extra money. Is that about the cost of 13 00:00:40,409 --> 00:00:41,098 Sean Aylmer: living, do you reckon? 14 00:00:42,030 --> 00:00:45,659 Tim Fung: Absolutely. So I think we've seen the, as interest rates 15 00:00:45,659 --> 00:00:48,809 Tim Fung: have gone up, we've seen two things start to happen. 16 00:00:49,019 --> 00:00:51,149 Tim Fung: I think the cost of certain things has started to 17 00:00:51,150 --> 00:00:54,990 Tim Fung: taper off as we're seeing. We've also started to see 18 00:00:54,990 --> 00:00:58,290 Tim Fung: that people are very, very much interested in ways to 19 00:00:58,290 --> 00:01:01,470 Tim Fung: be able to earn some extra money using their skills. 20 00:01:02,099 --> 00:01:05,459 Tim Fung: One of the interesting things about Airtasker is that we 21 00:01:05,459 --> 00:01:08,729 Tim Fung: see the data in real- time. And you think about 22 00:01:09,030 --> 00:01:11,190 Tim Fung: the Reserve Bank and the people who are making decisions 23 00:01:11,190 --> 00:01:15,390 Tim Fung: about interest rates, they're generally getting data on a quarterly 24 00:01:15,390 --> 00:01:18,810 Tim Fung: basis based on statistics that are rolled up over a 25 00:01:18,810 --> 00:01:22,288 Tim Fung: long period of time, and they're very much lagging indicators. 26 00:01:22,289 --> 00:01:25,110 Tim Fung: So it's really interesting on Airtasker because we're seeing this 27 00:01:25,110 --> 00:01:28,980 Tim Fung: data in real- time every single day, and we've certainly 28 00:01:28,980 --> 00:01:31,169 Tim Fung: got some interesting observations that we're seeing through that data. 29 00:01:31,169 --> 00:01:34,830 Sean Aylmer: So before we get onto the services that people are 30 00:01:34,830 --> 00:01:37,590 Sean Aylmer: offering, is it something that you've seen in the last 31 00:01:37,770 --> 00:01:40,110 Sean Aylmer: three months, has it been happening over the last year? When 32 00:01:40,110 --> 00:01:42,479 Sean Aylmer: did you really start seeing a pickup in people offering 33 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,059 Sean Aylmer: their services? Because as you say, as an indicator of 34 00:01:45,059 --> 00:01:48,990 Sean Aylmer: the macro- economy, it's really pretty good in real- time. 35 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,340 Tim Fung: Absolutely. So we measure the demand in our marketplace by 36 00:01:53,340 --> 00:01:55,980 Tim Fung: the number of tasks that are being posted, and we 37 00:01:55,980 --> 00:01:58,860 Tim Fung: measure the supply in our marketplace by the number of 38 00:01:58,860 --> 00:02:02,580 Tim Fung: active Taskers who are making offers to complete those posted 39 00:02:02,580 --> 00:02:06,600 Tim Fung: tasks; the work that they're offering to do. And what 40 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,419 Tim Fung: we started seeing is from about September of last year, 41 00:02:09,660 --> 00:02:13,169 Tim Fung: we started to see a counter seasonal trend where the 42 00:02:13,169 --> 00:02:15,569 Tim Fung: amount of supply, the number of active workers, just started 43 00:02:15,870 --> 00:02:18,989 Tim Fung: moving up and up and up. And then into January 44 00:02:18,990 --> 00:02:21,690 Tim Fung: where we usually see a lot of people interested, we 45 00:02:21,690 --> 00:02:25,410 Tim Fung: saw enormous surge in supply. So the number of people 46 00:02:25,410 --> 00:02:30,480 Tim Fung: working just increased massively up about 40, 50% compared to the 47 00:02:30,750 --> 00:02:33,780 Tim Fung: prior year. And on some pretty big numbers, we have 48 00:02:33,780 --> 00:02:37,918 Tim Fung: tens of thousands of weekly active workers on our platform. 49 00:02:38,219 --> 00:02:40,139 Tim Fung: So that was really from September of last year, but 50 00:02:40,139 --> 00:02:43,440 Tim Fung: really picked up in January and has not relented. It's 51 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,560 Tim Fung: been at that really high and elevated level all the 52 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,080 Tim Fung: way through to where we are now, the back end 53 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:53,340 Tim Fung: of May. And we've seen consumer demand, which is interesting, 54 00:02:53,820 --> 00:02:56,129 Tim Fung: that's starting to soften a little bit. As of January 55 00:02:56,130 --> 00:02:59,400 Tim Fung: this year, it was super high going into Christmas, but 56 00:02:59,579 --> 00:03:01,079 Tim Fung: this year has been a little bit softer. 57 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,540 Sean Aylmer: Is there any way you can break that down by geography? 58 00:03:04,110 --> 00:03:07,680 Tim Fung: For sure. Well, I can say very simply, Airtasker is 59 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,410 Tim Fung: all across the world now. So we operate in the UK 60 00:03:10,410 --> 00:03:13,199 Tim Fung: and the US, in the Northern Hemisphere as well as 61 00:03:13,410 --> 00:03:17,220 Tim Fung: the Southern. And that's pretty interesting because as much as 62 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,130 Tim Fung: humans, we like to think that we're doing our own 63 00:03:20,130 --> 00:03:23,400 Tim Fung: thing, it turns out that basically everyone does do all 64 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,740 Tim Fung: of their spring- cleaning and all their spring chores in 65 00:03:25,740 --> 00:03:29,488 Tim Fung: spring, and in winter, people tend to do air conditioning 66 00:03:29,490 --> 00:03:32,999 Tim Fung: and bunker down. And so what we're seeing is, in 67 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,570 Tim Fung: Australia, this is definitely the quieter period as we head 68 00:03:36,570 --> 00:03:40,440 Tim Fung: into winter, but things are going absolutely bonkers in the 69 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,540 Tim Fung: UK and the US where we're going into the Northern 70 00:03:42,540 --> 00:03:47,369 Tim Fung: Hemisphere's summer. That said, I would say the overall supply 71 00:03:47,370 --> 00:03:50,849 Tim Fung: and demand dynamics are reasonably similar in all of these 72 00:03:50,849 --> 00:03:54,149 Tim Fung: markets, in the sense that demand is getting softer, I 73 00:03:54,150 --> 00:03:56,910 Tim Fung: think customers are definitely watching their wallets and wanting to 74 00:03:56,910 --> 00:03:59,310 Tim Fung: earn some more money, and we're seeing that reflected on 75 00:03:59,310 --> 00:04:02,970 Tim Fung: the supply side of our marketplace where record levels of 76 00:04:02,970 --> 00:04:04,229 Tim Fung: people wanting to work. 77 00:04:05,010 --> 00:04:08,159 Sean Aylmer: What services do they offer? I'm just interested. 78 00:04:08,820 --> 00:04:12,449 Tim Fung: I mean, Airtasker is a genuinely what we call infinitely 79 00:04:12,449 --> 00:04:16,859 Tim Fung: horizontal marketplace. So we have everything on our marketplace from 80 00:04:16,860 --> 00:04:20,190 Tim Fung: everyday jobs, it might be moving some boxes, lifting some 81 00:04:20,190 --> 00:04:23,580 Tim Fung: plants, all the way through to cleaning and gardening; household 82 00:04:23,580 --> 00:04:27,900 Tim Fung: services. Through to white collar work like accountants and lawyers. 83 00:04:28,109 --> 00:04:30,059 Tim Fung: And now we're getting some really, really high- tech work 84 00:04:30,059 --> 00:04:33,900 Tim Fung: coming through our platform, whether that's help with artificial intelligence 85 00:04:33,900 --> 00:04:37,529 Tim Fung: type prompting work, or whether that's 3D printing. So we 86 00:04:37,529 --> 00:04:40,380 Tim Fung: get everything along that scale. But where's the bulk of 87 00:04:40,380 --> 00:04:43,230 Tim Fung: the work? It's in the everyday jobs. It's things like 88 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,529 Tim Fung: cleaning, gardening, removals, handyman and deliveries. 89 00:04:47,820 --> 00:04:50,880 Sean Aylmer: And mostly it's sort of project work, one- off work? 90 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:55,380 Sean Aylmer: Or is it actually many people with ongoing commitments to people? 91 00:04:55,860 --> 00:04:59,279 Tim Fung: What's really cool is that Airtasker enables people to connect 92 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,009 Tim Fung: for that first time, and that that's traditionally where most 93 00:05:02,009 --> 00:05:04,709 Tim Fung: of our business has been. Over the last year, we've 94 00:05:04,709 --> 00:05:08,130 Tim Fung: actually developed a new feature in our app where you 95 00:05:08,130 --> 00:05:11,370 Tim Fung: can just stay in touch with Taskers that you've worked 96 00:05:11,370 --> 00:05:14,578 Tim Fung: with before on Airtasker. We charge much lower fees for 97 00:05:14,580 --> 00:05:18,000 Tim Fung: that, to help cover things like payments and insurance, and 98 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,539 Tim Fung: it's just a convenient way to have your pocketbook full 99 00:05:21,570 --> 00:05:23,760 Tim Fung: of Taskers that you can call on any time that 100 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,010 Tim Fung: you need them. So we have a mix of both 101 00:05:26,010 --> 00:05:28,650 Tim Fung: first time work as well as ongoing work now as well. 102 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,080 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Tim, we'll be back in a minute. 103 00:05:36,900 --> 00:05:39,659 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Tim Fung, co- founder and 104 00:05:39,660 --> 00:05:43,680 Sean Aylmer: Chief Executive Officer of Airtasker. What I always find interesting about 105 00:05:43,860 --> 00:05:46,409 Sean Aylmer: Airtasker is, there are people out there that do stuff 106 00:05:46,410 --> 00:05:49,260 Sean Aylmer: that I would never have dreamed of. There was one 107 00:05:49,260 --> 00:05:51,209 Sean Aylmer: I saw as the flow and effect of the rental 108 00:05:51,210 --> 00:05:54,750 Sean Aylmer: crisis, people paying Taskers to do the rental inspections for 109 00:05:54,750 --> 00:05:55,650 Sean Aylmer: them, for example. 110 00:05:56,219 --> 00:05:59,729 Tim Fung: For sure. I think one of the things traditionally about 111 00:05:59,730 --> 00:06:03,060 Tim Fung: the local services or the labor economy is there's a 112 00:06:03,060 --> 00:06:06,960 Tim Fung: high degree of friction. In order to find someone just 113 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,659 Tim Fung: to help you with a hundred dollar job or a 114 00:06:09,660 --> 00:06:11,759 Tim Fung: job that might take a couple of hours, it was 115 00:06:11,759 --> 00:06:15,150 Tim Fung: so hard to find and discover that person, super hard 116 00:06:15,150 --> 00:06:18,419 Tim Fung: to connect with them, really hard to trust them, be 117 00:06:18,420 --> 00:06:20,880 Tim Fung: able to process payment, have insurances and all that kind 118 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,610 Tim Fung: of thing. And what Airtasker has done is just lower 119 00:06:23,610 --> 00:06:28,530 Tim Fung: that friction so that people can share skills for transactions. 120 00:06:28,770 --> 00:06:31,950 Tim Fung: It might be two or $ 300 which just weren't possible 121 00:06:31,950 --> 00:06:33,150 Tim Fung: to happen before. 122 00:06:33,630 --> 00:06:36,630 Sean Aylmer: And obviously good for consumers. So on the demand side, 123 00:06:37,139 --> 00:06:37,860 Sean Aylmer: it is good news. 124 00:06:38,460 --> 00:06:40,860 Tim Fung: Look, I think it's genuinely great on both sides of 125 00:06:40,860 --> 00:06:43,890 Tim Fung: the marketplace. So for customers, you can go and discover 126 00:06:43,890 --> 00:06:46,919 Tim Fung: a lot more people. In the old days, you might 127 00:06:46,950 --> 00:06:49,920 Tim Fung: have to rely on the one person that your cousin 128 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:54,450 Tim Fung: has used before that's trusted to do some plumbing for 129 00:06:54,450 --> 00:06:57,359 Tim Fung: you. Now you can access all of the plumbers in 130 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,570 Tim Fung: your local area with a couple of taps. But from 131 00:07:00,570 --> 00:07:03,539 Tim Fung: the worker side of things, it's also really good. And 132 00:07:03,540 --> 00:07:05,610 Tim Fung: what Airtasker enables you to do is really build up 133 00:07:05,610 --> 00:07:09,000 Tim Fung: your brand and your reputation, rather than doing a job 134 00:07:09,178 --> 00:07:11,699 Tim Fung: and then doing another job and then never being able 135 00:07:11,699 --> 00:07:15,360 Tim Fung: to be recognized for your experience. Airtasker is letting you 136 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,510 Tim Fung: log all of that experience and build your profile. And 137 00:07:18,510 --> 00:07:21,570 Tim Fung: what we've seen directly is that once you can build 138 00:07:21,570 --> 00:07:23,969 Tim Fung: up that profile, you can monetize it. You can basically 139 00:07:23,969 --> 00:07:26,820 Tim Fung: make a lot more money from your skills if you 140 00:07:26,820 --> 00:07:29,730 Tim Fung: are building up that online reputation. 141 00:07:30,359 --> 00:07:34,170 Sean Aylmer: So looking at Airtasker, the proprietary limited, the corporate entity, 142 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,730 Sean Aylmer: you listed back in 2021, I think it was, and 143 00:07:38,730 --> 00:07:41,939 Sean Aylmer: it's been a tough ride. What's the outlook for Airtasker? 144 00:07:42,719 --> 00:07:45,329 Tim Fung: Yeah, well the first thing to clarify, which is quite 145 00:07:45,330 --> 00:07:48,840 Tim Fung: interesting, is that we listed the company at about 65 146 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,770 Tim Fung: cents a share, and we are down significantly since then, 147 00:07:53,550 --> 00:07:56,520 Tim Fung: it's a very, very tough market for tech and growth 148 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,960 Tim Fung: companies. But actually, the journey was that we actually spiked 149 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:05,669 Tim Fung: on day one, and we went from 65 cents to about $2 on the first day of trading. 150 00:08:05,670 --> 00:08:08,190 Tim Fung: And so it looks like we've kind of gone from $2 to 151 00:08:08,850 --> 00:08:12,540 Tim Fung: 20 cents. The reality is that we actually listed at 65 cents, 152 00:08:12,540 --> 00:08:15,660 Tim Fung: and it's still been a tough journey, but certainly not 153 00:08:15,660 --> 00:08:18,480 Tim Fung: to the extent that the charts on the ASX actually look 154 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,509 Tim Fung: like. In terms of that, I think it's been the 155 00:08:21,509 --> 00:08:25,830 Tim Fung: story across pretty much the entire growth and tech market. 156 00:08:25,830 --> 00:08:29,400 Tim Fung: And whilst I would say that some of the valuations 157 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,790 Tim Fung: and some of the multiples that people were valuing these 158 00:08:32,790 --> 00:08:35,760 Tim Fung: stocks on back in 21 was probably a little bit 159 00:08:35,940 --> 00:08:39,149 Tim Fung: overinflated, but now where it's come to is it's probably 160 00:08:39,150 --> 00:08:41,939 Tim Fung: quite undervalued. And so having been through one of these 161 00:08:41,940 --> 00:08:45,390 Tim Fung: cycles before back in the financial crisis, I think it's 162 00:08:45,390 --> 00:08:48,870 Tim Fung: the time to think long term, focus on the mission 163 00:08:48,870 --> 00:08:51,120 Tim Fung: of the company, make sure you've got a great team 164 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,940 Tim Fung: of people behind you, and if you do those things, 165 00:08:54,270 --> 00:08:56,879 Tim Fung: the market will take care of itself over the coming months. 166 00:08:57,690 --> 00:09:01,230 Sean Aylmer: And in terms of earnings for Airtasker and projected earnings, 167 00:09:01,230 --> 00:09:03,960 Sean Aylmer: is it just about flow- through, so more and more 168 00:09:04,020 --> 00:09:06,809 Sean Aylmer: jobs? Is that basically how you make money? 169 00:09:07,410 --> 00:09:09,809 Tim Fung: Well, one of the interesting things about Airtasker is that 170 00:09:09,809 --> 00:09:14,339 Tim Fung: we're an incredibly high operating leverage business. We've invested into 171 00:09:14,340 --> 00:09:17,070 Tim Fung: building a piece of software, an app, and building a 172 00:09:17,070 --> 00:09:22,740 Tim Fung: brand, which is the Airtasker brand. And every additional transaction that 173 00:09:22,740 --> 00:09:26,280 Tim Fung: goes through our marketplace, 94% of that drops to the 174 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,730 Tim Fung: bottom line. So it's really a very high operating leverage 175 00:09:29,730 --> 00:09:32,790 Tim Fung: business model. What we're really excited about at the moment is 176 00:09:32,790 --> 00:09:35,759 Tim Fung: taking this app, this software that we've built and that 177 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,939 Tim Fung: we continue to invest a lot of capital into, and 178 00:09:38,940 --> 00:09:42,210 Tim Fung: taking that into new markets around the world. So we've 179 00:09:42,210 --> 00:09:45,300 Tim Fung: got some exciting announcements happening soon in the UK and 180 00:09:45,300 --> 00:09:48,179 Tim Fung: the US as well. And we're seeing our marketplaces over 181 00:09:48,179 --> 00:09:51,959 Tim Fung: there really thrive. As I mentioned, it's springtime in London 182 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,740 Tim Fung: at the moment, so that's going absolutely berserk. I think 183 00:09:56,100 --> 00:09:58,710 Tim Fung: what's great is that being a high operating leverage business 184 00:09:58,710 --> 00:10:01,350 Tim Fung: model means, when we go into the UK, we don't 185 00:10:01,350 --> 00:10:05,280 Tim Fung: have to build up more people, more expensive, more apps. 186 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,289 Tim Fung: We're using all of the same stuff and we're just scaling. 187 00:10:08,009 --> 00:10:09,750 Sean Aylmer: Tim, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 188 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:11,309 Tim Fung: Thanks so much for having me. 189 00:10:11,940 --> 00:10:15,540 Sean Aylmer: That was Tim Fung, co- founder and CEO of Airtasker. 190 00:10:15,780 --> 00:10:18,030 Sean Aylmer: This is the Fear and Greed daily interview, join us 191 00:10:18,030 --> 00:10:20,010 Sean Aylmer: every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, 192 00:10:20,010 --> 00:10:23,939 Sean Aylmer: Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer, enjoy your day.