WEBVTT - The sun erupted. A plane suddenly fell. Should we worry? 

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<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Monday, December one, twenty twenty five. China has seized

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<v Speaker 1>a commanding lead over the United States in sixty six

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<v Speaker 1>of the seventy four critical technologies that will define the

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<v Speaker 1>coming era, like AI, space research, environmental engineering and quantum computing.

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<v Speaker 1>Australia is likely to fall short of the government's twenty

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<v Speaker 1>thirty target for renewable energy. The Clean Energy Regulator says

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<v Speaker 1>it's hoping for a better year in twenty twenty six.

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<v Speaker 1>Those stories are live now at the Australian dot com

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<v Speaker 1>dot AU. As aircraft become more computerized and even pilotless,

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<v Speaker 1>they're also more vulnerable to space events like the giant

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<v Speaker 1>solar flare that put an air bus into an commanded

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<v Speaker 1>dive and grounded thousands of flights over the weekend. So

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<v Speaker 1>should we praise the manufacturer for acting quickly or rethink

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<v Speaker 1>the risk of autopilot systems altogether. Robin eInsight is The

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<v Speaker 1>Australian's aviation writer and she's joining me on what turned

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<v Speaker 1>out to be a chaotic weekend for anyone who was

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<v Speaker 1>trying to fly in America. It's been Thanksgiving weekend and

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<v Speaker 1>a whole lot of families plans have been thrown into

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<v Speaker 1>chaos by the sudden grounding of thousands of aircraft made

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<v Speaker 1>by the European manufacturer Airbus Robin What happened at airports

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<v Speaker 1>around Australia and around the world on the weekend.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, this directive from Airbus went out late Friday that

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<v Speaker 2>all air Bus A three twenty aircraft, and that was

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<v Speaker 2>a variety of models from the A three one nine,

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<v Speaker 2>the A three one eight and the three twenty one

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<v Speaker 2>as well as the H three twenty that they required

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<v Speaker 2>software update. That was about five one hundred aircraft worldwide,

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<v Speaker 2>and another nine hundred of the older models actually needed

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<v Speaker 2>a new on board flight computer altogether. So that directive

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<v Speaker 2>went out and as a result, airlines had no choice

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<v Speaker 2>but to ground those aircraft and carry out the update,

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<v Speaker 2>which in Jetstar's case, had to be carried out for

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<v Speaker 2>thirty four of its A three to twenty aircraft, which

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<v Speaker 2>took a considerable amount of time given each of the

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<v Speaker 2>software updates took about an hour to carry out.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of these aircraft that were affected are single

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<v Speaker 1>aisle kind of workhorse planes. What kind of routes are

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<v Speaker 1>they flying in Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, they fly predominantly domestic routes in Australia, and they

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<v Speaker 2>also do some short haul international routes, say to Bali,

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<v Speaker 2>to New Zealand, to Fiji. So all of those routes

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<v Speaker 2>were impacted by this directive.

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<v Speaker 1>So what it precipitated this was a sudden loss in

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<v Speaker 1>height on a Jet Blue flight a couple of weeks earlier.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell me about that what had happened there?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, the flight was going from Mexico to New Jersey

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<v Speaker 2>and shortly, probably about less than an hour into the flight,

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<v Speaker 2>they experienced this uncommanded loss of altitude that was so

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<v Speaker 2>sharp a number of passengers were injured, had cuts and bruises.

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<v Speaker 2>So the pilot elected to make an emergency landing at

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<v Speaker 2>Tampa in Florida, and when they arrived, the aircraft was

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<v Speaker 2>looked at. It was grounded until the Federal Aviation Administration

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<v Speaker 2>and Jet Blue carried out an investigation. In the course

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<v Speaker 2>of this investigation, it was discovered that solar radiation had

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<v Speaker 2>impacted a digital component in the onboard computer, and it

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<v Speaker 2>just happened to be that digital component that effects the

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<v Speaker 2>elevator and eleron of the aircraft so affects its ability

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<v Speaker 2>to go up and down.

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<v Speaker 1>The word uncommanded is absolutely terrifying, Robin. It must have

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<v Speaker 1>been horrendous being on that plane.

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<v Speaker 2>It would have been, and particularly so for the pilots

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<v Speaker 2>who wouldn't have really known what was happening. All of

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<v Speaker 2>a sudden, it felt like the aircraft would have taken

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<v Speaker 2>over and it had suddenly started descending despite their best

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<v Speaker 2>efforts to keep it on a steady course. So you

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<v Speaker 2>can understand why they would have been keen to land

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<v Speaker 2>as soon as possible.

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<v Speaker 1>Airbus A through twenty is use something called fly by wire,

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<v Speaker 1>which is the sophisticated computer I guess interface between the

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<v Speaker 1>pilot and the parts of the plane that make it

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<v Speaker 1>go up and down and make it go flaps, elerons

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<v Speaker 1>and so on. The fly by wire is designed to

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<v Speaker 1>almost soften a pilot's reactions to things, so to interpret

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<v Speaker 1>what the pilot is doing or telling it to do,

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<v Speaker 1>and then to make that happen. And it's designed to

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<v Speaker 1>avoid any sudden changes or drops in altitude or anything

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<v Speaker 1>like that. The fact that in this instance, the fly

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<v Speaker 1>by wire system is what was operating the air bus

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<v Speaker 1>at the time that it suffered this dive. It speaks

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<v Speaker 1>to how sophisticated modern airplanes are, but it also speaks

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<v Speaker 1>to the fact that the pilot sometimes doesn't actually have

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<v Speaker 1>any control at all.

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<v Speaker 2>It's pretty terrifying when you think about it, and that,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess has been an ongoing criticism of Airbus aircraft

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<v Speaker 2>that they do rely so heavily on computers, bowing to

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<v Speaker 2>an extent, still uses more of a manual operation. I've

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<v Speaker 2>heard it described as using pulleys and cables. I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>quite sure that it's that basic, but the Airbus is

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<v Speaker 2>very much their fly by wire model, where the pilot

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<v Speaker 2>is almost secondary to the computers in some instances.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it possible that at some point in the future,

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<v Speaker 1>as planes become more and more sophisticated, that there won't

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<v Speaker 1>actually be human being sitting in cockpits.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's certainly the case, and already Airbus is developing

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<v Speaker 2>a freighter aircraft that will only require one pilot, and

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<v Speaker 2>pilots themselves are very concerned about this move. But this

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<v Speaker 2>particular freighter aircraft is very much in demand by airlines

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<v Speaker 2>who see considerable financial benefits to it. They see that

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<v Speaker 2>it's a safe aircraft because of the technology that's used.

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<v Speaker 2>But how long it is before we move to that

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<v Speaker 2>for commercial passenger aircraft is certainly a cause for concern

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<v Speaker 2>within the pilot community and probably in the passenger community too.

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<v Speaker 1>Robin, why was it airbus planes that were so strongly

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<v Speaker 1>affected by this as opposed to other manufacturers like Bowling.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's a good question. It sounds like it was

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<v Speaker 2>a time and place issue. It has been described to

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<v Speaker 2>me that solar radiation is the high energy particles that

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<v Speaker 2>collide with the Earth's atmosphere, generating a cascade of secondary particles,

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<v Speaker 2>including neutrons, protons, ions, and photons, And in the context

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<v Speaker 2>of Adonix, neutrons are the primary concern.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just going to pause here for a sec to

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<v Speaker 1>tell you about solar flares. Now this is coming from

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<v Speaker 1>someone who isn't that interested in space, but I'm suddenly

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<v Speaker 1>paying a lot of attention. A solar flare is when

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<v Speaker 1>a dark spot on the Sun suddenly errupts. Right now,

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<v Speaker 1>the Sun is nearing the peak of its eleven year

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<v Speaker 1>cycle of activity, and throughout November there were solar flares

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<v Speaker 1>and something called coronal mass ejections, where huge volumes of

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<v Speaker 1>plasma exploded out into space. That phenomenon is normal. It's

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<v Speaker 1>what causes the beautiful northern and southern lights, the auroras.

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<v Speaker 1>But it can interfere with electronics, computers, and radio transmitters

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<v Speaker 1>down here on Earth. Our atmosphere blocks most of that,

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<v Speaker 1>but satellites and high flying aircraft are less protected and

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<v Speaker 1>their computers can be seriously affected.

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<v Speaker 2>And in this instance, neutron struck a digital component in

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<v Speaker 2>the plane, so it may have been a case of

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<v Speaker 2>bad luck rather than something that would have happened more

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<v Speaker 2>in a more widespread Nature's that's my very layman's understanding

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<v Speaker 2>of it, anyway.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, my layman's understanding is that it does something. Potentially,

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<v Speaker 1>if this happens, it can cause something called a bitflip,

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<v Speaker 1>where a zero and a one in a computing system

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<v Speaker 1>are transposed and the computer gets confused. In an airbus

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<v Speaker 1>A three twenty, there are at least three computers on

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<v Speaker 1>board that are flying the plane, and they're supposed to

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<v Speaker 1>be able to override an accident like this happening to

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<v Speaker 1>one computer, it would suggest that the problem is bigger

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<v Speaker 1>than Airbus could have possibly anticipated.

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<v Speaker 2>Right Indeed, And I guess that's why it's taken the

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<v Speaker 2>action that it has to do its best to safeguard

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<v Speaker 2>the computers in all other aircraft perhaps didn't have this

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<v Speaker 2>protection before, and to ensure that the chances of something

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<v Speaker 2>like this happening again is very very much minimized.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm hearing praise for Airbus for having taken action quickly

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<v Speaker 1>and for having grounded planes, even turning planes around that

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<v Speaker 1>were in the air at the time that the recall

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<v Speaker 1>was announced. But what's your view, Robin, as someone who's

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<v Speaker 1>covered aviation for a long time. Should we be praising

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<v Speaker 1>Airbus here or should we be concerned that Airbus had

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<v Speaker 1>allowed itself to be in a situation where perhaps its

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<v Speaker 1>computers were not properly protected from solar radiation.

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<v Speaker 2>I do think in this instance they do deserve praise.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, we look back at the Boweing seven three

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<v Speaker 2>seven Max eight episode where there was one fatal crash

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<v Speaker 2>and it was very much linked to this new system

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<v Speaker 2>that Boeing had put on the plane without telling a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people, and rather than taking action then they

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<v Speaker 2>waited until there was a second fatal crash before more

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<v Speaker 2>action was taken to ground the aircraft and to rework.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess the computers on board, so they didn't have

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<v Speaker 2>this fault in them. So in that context, I think

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<v Speaker 2>you have to praise Airbus for not mucking around for

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<v Speaker 2>sort of as soon as it realized what was the

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<v Speaker 2>likely cause of this uncommanded drop and altitude for the

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<v Speaker 2>Jet Blue flight, it released the direction to pretty much

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<v Speaker 2>ground most of the A three twenty fleet and make

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<v Speaker 2>these corrections.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you think other manufacturers will be responding now?

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<v Speaker 1>Will they also be looking at the hardening that their

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<v Speaker 1>computer systems have from solar radiation? For example?

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<v Speaker 2>Within the airline community, there's always learnings taken from any

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<v Speaker 2>sort of incident, So there would certainly other aviation companies

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<v Speaker 2>such as Boeing and Braier they would be looking closely

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<v Speaker 2>at this and making a decision as to whether they

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<v Speaker 2>have to take action against their own onboard computers and software.

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<v Speaker 2>That the sort of computers we're talking about, that they're

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<v Speaker 2>closely guarded secrets in the airline industry. So just exactly

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<v Speaker 2>you know, how the Airbus computers differ from others, we

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<v Speaker 2>don't know, but that they would certainly be trying to

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<v Speaker 2>take any lessons that could be learned from it.

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<v Speaker 1>This incident reminds me of other sort of sudden loss

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<v Speaker 1>of altitude moments that have happened in the air in

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<v Speaker 1>recent years. Do you think any of those might have

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<v Speaker 1>been connected to a similar situation?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I did wonder if they would go back and

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<v Speaker 2>look at other other episodes of sudden losses in altitude

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<v Speaker 2>that didn't have an obvious explanation. Often we put them

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<v Speaker 2>down to clear air turbulence. So it will be interesting

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<v Speaker 2>to see if they go back and review some of

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<v Speaker 2>those instances through this lens.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up? Will this moment cause airlines and manufacturers to

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<v Speaker 1>rethink the trend towards fully automated flying. You're a regular

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<v Speaker 1>passenger as well as an aviation expert, Robin does knowing

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<v Speaker 1>a lot about the way planes work and the safety

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<v Speaker 1>of ours guys make you a more nervous flyer or

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<v Speaker 1>a less nervous flyer. And how do you behave on

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<v Speaker 1>a plane with all of this in the back of

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<v Speaker 1>your mind.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, to an extent, it makes me more confident because

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<v Speaker 2>I know that the chances of anything going wrong greatly

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<v Speaker 2>minimized in the air, just because it does have such

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<v Speaker 2>a safety first focus. But also knowing that take off

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<v Speaker 2>and landings are that the highest risk phases of the

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<v Speaker 2>flight makes me very nervous. On landing, I have to

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<v Speaker 2>say I do get a bit anxious until that the

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<v Speaker 2>plane actually, you know, comes to a stop. But during

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<v Speaker 2>the cruise flight, you know, the chances of anything going

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<v Speaker 2>wrong is so small that you're better off up there

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<v Speaker 2>than you would be down on the road.

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<v Speaker 1>Will this be an inflection point do you think, Robin?

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<v Speaker 1>In the way we think about the computerization of flying

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<v Speaker 1>and perhaps the measures that manufacturers and operators need to

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<v Speaker 1>take to keep their aircraft safe.

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<v Speaker 2>It's hard to imagine them stepping back from computerization because

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<v Speaker 2>it is such an integral part of aircraft manufacturing. So

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<v Speaker 2>it's hard to imagine this would and especially given the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that there weren't any fatalities involved. There wasn't a

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<v Speaker 2>whole loss. Makes me suspect that although it's been taken

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<v Speaker 2>very seriously, it's not going to result in a dramatic change.

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<v Speaker 1>Robin Einside is The Australian's aviation writer. You can check

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<v Speaker 1>out all Robin's reporting, plus the rest of Australia's best

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<v Speaker 1>journalism anytime at the Australian dot com dot au