WEBVTT - The Late Debate | 11 November 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:05.000 Lately. General, welcome the late base. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:08.320 Well good Evin, great to have your company. 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:11.639 I'm James Macpherson with Liz Storer and Caleb Bond coming 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:15.239 up tonight. The Taliban accuse Americans of being sexist in 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:18.800 the wake of Kamala Harris's election loss. We'll try to 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:21.720 get our heads around that one a little later. Plus 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:24.960 when we look at the papers, Indigenous leaders wanting to 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.840 restore Aboriginal rock art that is invisible to the naked 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:32.199 eye but has still been used as justification to close 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:35.360 down a whole lot of Victorian climbing routes. Plus an 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:38.760 incredible story about stalking on the front page of Tomorrow's 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.239 Australian that you have to hear it to believe. And 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:44.159 as you can imagine, a number of newspapers tomorrow marking 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:46.960 today's remembrance memorial. 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:48.120 Will get to all of that. 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:50.440 In the papers, but first I want to get your 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:52.879 thoughts on a council story. I think we're going to 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:56.040 disagree on this one, Caleb and Liz. But Brisbane City 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:59.760 Council have said they will charge rate payers one dollar 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:04.440 and ninety eight cents to receive their rates notice on paper. 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:06.360 Now, the Liberal Lord mayor. 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:10.200 Says he's simply covering rising printing and postage costs, but 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.959 the opposition argue it's a low blow for elderly people 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:16.720 who either don't have access to the Internet or simply 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:21.679 can't work their emails. Opposition leader Jared Cassidy told The 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.920 Courier Mail it's a cost of living crisis and the 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:28.559 LNP Council is squeezing money out of pensioners via hidden 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:29.920 fees on their rates bill. 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:31.800 It's disgusting, he said. 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:34.160 Do they really think it's helpful to stick a QR 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:36.400 code on the rates notice or offer a token gift 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:39.280 card to try to make people go paperless and avoid 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:43.160 their sneaky fees. Many of our local pensioners don't even 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:49.360 have the Internet. Not to be outdone, local retiree Veldi Switzkoski, 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.840 he told The Career Mail paper rates notices have been 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.200 issued free since Brisbane City Council was founded one hundred 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.960 years ago, but now will be penalized for the same service. 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:02.920 I don't recall any mention of this new tax during 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:06.560 the election campaign only seven months ago. While the Council 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:09.359 may see it as a trivial amount, many will find 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:11.760 it just another expense to add to the cost of 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:14.959 living crisis. Now, I think Calebin Liz are going to 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:17.120 disagree with me on this one, but I personally don't 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:21.800 have a massive problem. Pensioners qualify for a rebate under 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.239 rules put in place by the Brisbane City Council. There's 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:27.680 plenty of other companies that charge you to receive your 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:33.440 bill via paper, your power company, your phone company and others. 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:36.480 On top of that, postage costs have gone up I 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:39.640 think in Queensland about thirty five percent in the past 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.799 two years, and it's the way of the future. Most 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:47.239 people are issuing bills online now. Anyway, before I get 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:49.160 to you, Caleber and Liz and you pounce al over 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.600 me and accuse me ofvy no empathy for the elderly 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:56.280 people in Queensland. Some people who are really upset about 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:58.280 this have organized an online petition. 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:01.040 If you don't see the irony of that. 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:03.960 They've organized an online petition for people who don't have 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:08.919 access to the internet to protest this Sipplay decision. Okay, Calebern, Liz, 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:09.680 go at me. 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:10.200 This. 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:14.040 Why am I wrong is because it is inarguably agis. 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:19.920 Whenever something like this comes up, I think of my grandparents. Okay, 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:23.639 there's an entire section of society we cannot even comprehend 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:27.160 the leaps and bounds technology has taken in their lifetimes. 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:30.680 When they were born, computers didn't exist, much less smartphones. 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.320 When I was born, smartphones didn't exist. And these guys 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:38.080 are trying to just live their lives, pay their bills, 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:41.520 and they're copying these what I would call a fine 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:45.840 for simply saying, we've always received our bills on a 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.840 piece of paper. If we can keep doing that, please 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:53.440 check out this list of utilities companies that are currently 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:57.520 doing this. This adds up over the years, and so 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:02.600 it's not just one or two, it's this fee again 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:05.440 and again and again that you're being charged. Now, I'll 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:09.320 take the argument that these are private companies, but when 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:11.720 we're talking about councils, the. 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:14.640 Vast majority of us ought to get our bills via 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:15.800 email anyway. 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:20.640 So the council isn't spending millions of dollars on paper bills. 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:24.920 It is inarguably agous because that certain section of our 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.520 community don't have the first clue about how should I 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:29.880 access my bill online? 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:31.359 Pay my bill online. 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:35.240 I genuinely feel for these guys We've got banks closing, 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:36.720 We've got banks that. 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:40.600 Are open that don't do cash. You don't carry cash, 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:43.400 what is the purpose of you. We've now got parking 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:45.200 meters here in Sydney. 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:48.560 You can't pay in cash, and you can't even just 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:50.360 blip your phone to pay anymore. 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.240 It just says scan this QR code. 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:55.800 Now, I'm not a senior, but the camera on my 0:04:55.920 --> 0:05:00.320 phone hasn't worked since June last year, so I'm well, 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:01.600 I just can't park. 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:02.720 Here, then, can I. 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:06.760 We are making systems that simply do not service the 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:08.080 most vulnerable. 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:08.560 In our community. 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:11.440 And if it doesn't work for the most vulnerable, it 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:12.360 doesn't work at all. 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:14.479 This is a new technology five minutes ago. 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:16.800 I might buy your argument, but we've had smartphones for 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:19.480 more than a decade, an email for longer than that. 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.640 So if you ever joined on, then stuff you. It's 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:29.480 just mean and nasty, like I'm sorry. The council compulsorily 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.239 takes those rates from you. R you know, never choice 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:33.880 in whether you. 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:34.920 Get a service, and well. 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:41.359 The country yeah, exactly exactly right, So they're going to 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:47.479 take that in the country cocted, but they take that 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.480 money from you against your will, and then they're going 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:53.440 to charge you for the privilege of doing so because 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.600 you want it on a piece of paper instead of online. 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:57.359 I'm sorry. 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:00.400 If the if the government or the council or whoever 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.080 wants to come and take my money for the privilege 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:06.200 of living in my own home that I bought myself, 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:08.600 thank you very much, then they can send it to 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:11.360 me on a bloody piece of paper and not charge 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:12.120 me for doing so. 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:14.839 You can't tell me the Brisbane. 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:17.679 City Council, which is the biggest council in the sun. 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:21.440 It's huge, right, biggest, it's got more than a million 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:23.760 people in it, right, you can't tell me that they 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:27.040 can't absorb the one dollar fifty it cost to put 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:28.800 that thing in an envelope and put it in an 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:30.160 Australia Post post spot. 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:32.480 To be fair, according to the Careermaw, they offer pensioners 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:33.880 rebates to cover this. 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:35.839 Then they've got to go and ask for the rebate. 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:37.560 They're going to go and ask for a rebate. 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:41.760 I form line or call and spend half an hour 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:45.960 on the phone, and that had the money, couldn't give 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:46.839 a toss. 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:48.320 That's another nightmare. 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.320 Even when you call these places, you've got five options 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.039 and then if you press the wrong number, well you're 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:56.599 down the wrong rabbit hole. 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.159 Then you wait for another twenty minutes online. 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:02.000 This person said, I've got to transfer you somewhere else. 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:04.160 It is a night mayre. 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:06.640 It's a nightmare for a young person just trying to 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:08.800 navigate if you want to call Telstra or whatever. 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:10.440 It's an absolute night there. 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:14.320 But for our seniors, which again, if these systems aren't 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.640 put in place to service those. 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:18.840 Who aren't like, oh, I'm a total. 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:22.720 Techie, then they're not serviceable at all. Everyone should be 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:24.680 able to use these And if you need your bill 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.960 on a piece of paper for whatever reason, you shouldn't 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:30.920 be slapped with a fine. I'm calling it a fine, 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:31.200 all right. 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.520 Let me give you another council story. This one I 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:36.080 think the council are totally in the wrong. A South 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:40.480 Australian couple in the area of Prospect. They have spent 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.760 eight and a half thousand dollars repairing plumbing on their 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:48.720 house that's been disrupted by roots from a council tree. 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:52.400 Now this couple are in their sixties. She's in a wheelchair. 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:54.880 They've gone to the council and said, look, it's a 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:58.480 tree on council property. The roots have gorown into our plumbing. 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:00.480 We've spent eight and a half grand which we don't have. 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:02.600 Would you be able to help us out with this? 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:04.960 And the council have said no because, and this is 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:09.040 their reasoning. Council they say are caretakers of trees, but 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:14.120 not responsible for the naturally occurring behavior of trees. Council 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:16.200 have said they won't block the roots of this particular 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:18.600 tree because that would damage the health of the tree. 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:22.160 They certainly won't remove the tree. And so this couple 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:25.200 in their sixties not only are having to pay a 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.920 tax to pay their rates bill on paper, now they're 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:30.760 having to pay eight and a half grand to fix 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.679 their plumbing. They have told the Odelaide Advertiser that's a 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:35.520 lot of money for us. We have to pay for 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:38.960 medical bills and treatment. Sherry, that's the wife spent six 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:42.080 months in hospital with COVID. If I touch that tree, 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:44.800 they'll take me to court. I'm not asking to bulldoze it, 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:46.520 but just to see if they could remove some of 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:50.359 the roots. It's not just impacting us, this could potentially 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:55.000 impact everyone in South Australia, in every council area. 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.200 What I don't understand about this Calebn Liz. 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:59.599 If I own a tree on my property and the 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:04.040 roots over to your part of the property and damage your. 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:05.440 House, I'm liable. 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.800 But when it's a tree on council property, somehow they're 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:09.320 not liable. 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:12.280 And I think the reason is counsel right the rules. 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:14.200 Well, well, the state government writes the rules. So it's 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:18.320 apparently in the Local Government Act they have indemnity against 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.000 this kind of thing, which is utterly ridiculous. Right, And 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.400 even if the Local Government Act provides that they are 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:28.000 allowed to be indemnified against damage caused by a council tree, 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:31.040 you would think if a letter comes across a phone 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:34.400 call order email comes across the desk of the council 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:37.480 worker and it says, you know, here, we've got an 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:41.079 aging couple, one of whom is in a wheelchair, and 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:43.960 the trees are not only damaging their plumbing which they 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.280 paid eight and a half grand for, it's pulling up 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.480 the footpath, which means poor old Sherry in her wheelchair 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:51.839 can't get in and out of the joint without assistance 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:54.040 because she can't wheel it over the top of the 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:57.520 now heavily damaged footpath. You'd think they just go all right, 0:09:57.600 --> 0:09:59.640 we'll pay for it and sort it out, even if 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.360 we don't legally have to do so. The right thing 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:05.920 is to pay for it and sort it out once again. 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:10.600 You know, once upon a time, public service meant service. 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:14.280 I mean it is the operative word in public service. 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:14.560 Right. 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:16.560 Service has just gone out the window. 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:19.200 Whether it's charging you to send you your own rates 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:22.240 notice or refusing to pay for the damage that a 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:26.120 council tree has caused your property, they find every way 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:29.600 to avoid actually providing service to people. What am I 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:33.040 paying rates plus the cost of having the letter delivered 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:35.560 to me for If you can't even pay for the 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:39.560 damage that your trees cost. Surely at some point you've 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.000 got to put humans first. And I'll be the first 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.760 to say that I don't like trees being cut down 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:47.440 willy nilly, because they are really important in the environment. 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.480 They provide shade, they're a lovely thing. I don't want 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.720 trees being cut down. But surely they could do something 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.719 to alleviate this problem. But no, oh, you poor old 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:59.960 rate payer, We can compulsorily take money from you. Stuff 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:01.920 you you just under our thumb all the time. 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:04.160 Yeah, and here they are saying, oh, well, where the 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:08.600 caretakers of the tree? How about caretakers of the people 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:12.760 in your jurisdiction. That is the crux of your job, 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:16.160 although they've clearly forgotten, and this is what councils do 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.480 time and time again. It's why we keep having these 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:22.200 stories at least three per week in terms of regularity. 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:24.320 They don't care. 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:26.960 You're right, the service has gone out of the public service. 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:31.720 You're here to serve the people we elected you, reminder, 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:33.960 and they simply. 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:34.240 Do not care. 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:35.360 It is pretty miserable. 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:37.640 It makes you wonder do miserable people get elected the 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:41.840 council or do people become miserable having entered council. 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:47.200 It's a little bit of both. Little bit from having 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:48.120 served on a council. 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.360 Were you miserable before you joined a miserable effort your life? 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:51.880 Neither. 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:54.880 I loved the job, and I got into it because 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:55.959 I wanted to help people. 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:57.880 I was already working for a state member. 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:00.200 And the reason why I ran was because we had 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:02.720 so many people in the local community coming into the 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:07.079 electorate office to regale us with tales of local government issues, 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.520 and I was like, not a state issue, and then 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:12.640 they would just think you were yanking their chain, you're 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:14.560 having one on, You're just trying to brush them off 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:16.719 and get them out the door. So for as long 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:19.880 as I was then a counselor, we were basically double 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:21.000 barreled in that office. 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:23.160 And I spent a lot of time in my I 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:25.400 was going to say younger days. It's probably a bit 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:29.080 of a misnomer. I still like to think of myself 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:31.200 as a young man, even though in spirit I maybe 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:34.319 about eighty five. But in my early days as a reporter, 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.200 I spent a lot of time at council meetings because 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.120 I was a local government reporter. And I tell you what, 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:42.679 I saw some strange things in those council meetings, and 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.839 the later it got into the night, the stranger those 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:46.439 meetings got. 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:47.760 I can tell you that for free. 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:48.000 Now. 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:49.480 One bloke who seems to be in a little bit 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:51.520 of trouble at the moment is Jamie Oliver. 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:53.200 Of course, the celebrity chef. 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:58.160 He's in Australia at the moment, spreaking, spooking his newest cookbook. 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.640 But it's not the cookbook that's got him in trouble. 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.440 It is a kid's book. Yes, of course, it seems 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:05.160 to be the thing now that when someone goes, oh, 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:07.240 you know, what can I do to make some easy money, 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:08.520 I'll go and write a kid's book. 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.360 Well, that's exactly what Jamie Oliver has done. 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.200 And in the course of writing this book, he's seemingly 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:15.520 tried to, you. 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:17.559 Know, appeal to the woke, appealed to. 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:19.880 The left by saying, oh, well, we'd better have a 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:24.560 subplot in this book that involves an indigenous kid in Australia. 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:26.480 Let's tick all the boxes. Now, I haven't read the 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:26.839 whole thing. 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:29.199 I don't know whether he's done the same with Indians 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:30.840 in the US or whatever, but he thought, you know, 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:33.440 I'll take a few boxes here, we'll check an Indigenous 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.600 character in this book. Well, guess who's taken issue with 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:38.600 the indigenous character being in the book? 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.000 Indigenous people. I'm not joking. 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:45.840 The National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Education Corporation has 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:49.000 taken it up with mister Oliver that he's actually, through 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:52.520 the course of writing this book, included stereotypes and tropes 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:56.160 that are damaging to Indigenous people. Now I'll tell you 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.359 what was in the book. This is how The Guardian 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:03.840 describes this particular section of his book. It says Billy 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:06.160 in the epic Escape that is the book, a humorous 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:08.960 fantasy adventure novel, is set in England, but involves a 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:12.840 subplot where a wicked woman with supernatural powers teleports herself 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:16.640 to Alice Springs to steal a child from a fictitiously 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:21.680 named community called Bori Lama. She wants an Australian indigenous 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:24.840 child to join her press gang of kidnapped children who 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:28.440 work her land because quote First Nation's children seem to 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.160 be more connected with nature. 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:31.920 You can see where this is going. 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:34.600 The adults responsible for Ruby, a young girl who lives 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.160 in foster care and likes to eat desert bush food, 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.360 are distracted by the woman's promise of funding for their 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:41.720 community projects. 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:46.080 My god, that sounds slightly familiar, doesn't it, mister Alberizi voice. 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:50.280 Once subducted, Ruby tells the English children who rescue and 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:54.800 repatriate her that she can read people's minds and communicate 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:59.280 with animals and plants, because quote that's the Indigenous way 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.480 to me. She also tells them she is from m Barntois, 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:07.000 which is the Indigenous word for Alice Springs. It uses 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.960 words from the Gamalari people of New South Wales and 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.960 Queensland when explaining her life in Australia. In other words, 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:16.520 Jamie Oliver has thought, well, we've better check an indigenous 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:19.920 character in here, but we'll do no work to make sure. 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.040 That we actually get it right. 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:24.920 He says, I am devastated to hear I have caused 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:28.440 defense and wholly apologize for doing so. I am listening 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:33.160 and reflecting and working closely with my publisher on next steps. 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:35.360 I think it rather proves the point, doesn't it that 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:35.760 when you. 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:39.240 Try to appease the left, it doesn't usually work. 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:42.040 They come and get you anyway. I mean, how good 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.160 is oh well, we'll have an indigenous character in here? 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:47.040 How good am I? He can't even get the languages right. 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.720 He's got them all over the place, weird stuff about 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.280 indigenous kids being able to read minds, And where the 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:54.320 hell does this stuff come? 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:56.440 Can I just say, after listening to you read that portion, 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:58.120 I reckon you'd be good for the audio book. 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.520 You can give them a contract. Oh yeah, and kids 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:02.000 could stare a sleep at night. 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:06.240 To the dulcet tones of Caleb Bond, it's fiction, for goodness. 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:09.880 Sake, It's not real, So who cares if it's not factual, 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:11.960 it's fiction. That's the point. 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:13.600 One of the reasons why the woke is so on 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.080 the nose, and part of the reason Trump won is 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.520 people are sick of how nasty they are. I mean, 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:22.000 they're complaining that this book is damaging, disrespectful, and it's 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:26.760 contributing to the quote erasure of First Nations people's experiences. 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:31.040 It's a fictional, science fiction children's book, for goodness sake. 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.520 I don't think they're upset that Jamie Oliver wrote it. 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:36.040 I think they're upset that they didn't get paid to 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.040 be consulted on the writing of the book. 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:40.360 They say that when. 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:44.600 Aboriginal characters included in books, even fictional books, that there 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.880 must be respect. There must be and here's the consultation 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.480 with cultural experts, and I dare say they won't do 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:55.320 that without a fee, and there must be permission. So 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.880 now you have to have permission to include an Indigenous 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:01.560 character in a work of fiction. 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:02.720 Here's what will happen. 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:06.000 Fictional writers will decide, you know what, we won't include 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.879 any Indigenous characters because it's just too much of a risk. 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.520 And then indigenous activists will complain that they're not being 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:14.440 represented in. 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:17.679 Fiction exactly, which is why it was so ironic that 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:21.760 Natsek use the word erasure. This is indicative of the 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:27.120 erasure of Indigenous Australians. You've just guaranteed here because you've 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.400 just announced on the world stage, Jamie Oliver, there isn't 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:32.959 a more famous chef in the world, I don't think, 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:36.320 And you've just told everyone if you try this on, 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.400 will come after you. We'll never be happy with what 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.480 you do, will never be happy with the representation. And 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:46.840 Penguin Random Books, the publisher, has also come out and 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:48.280 said we are so sorry. 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:51.679 We normally do an authenticity. 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:53.320 Reading which would have picked up on this kind of thing. 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:55.320 It's completely our bad. 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:58.199 We are so sorry. Of course, Jamie Oliver and the 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:02.240 publisher have not committed to taking the book off the shelves, 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:05.040 which is what Natsek is demanding. 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:05.880 But here's the thing. 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:11.800 Had Penguin actually done that authenticity reading, it would have 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.200 depended on which indigenous group you asked for their opinion 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:18.120 as to whether they liked it or not, because, as 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:22.000 we know, by virtue of having the same ethnicity doesn't 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:23.240 mean everyone agrees. 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:24.960 We haven't got. 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:30.840 Indigenous consensus on a certain mind that is currently on hold. 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:31.840 Here in Australia. 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:34.800 So the very idea that you have to ask for 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:39.200 permission get the blessing of Indigenous Australians as a whole, 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:40.680 it's a complete furfy. 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:42.000 You can't. 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:44.840 For every group that would have said, read the book, 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:48.679 love it, bonds away, go for it, you'd find another 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.080 Indigenous group who was like, actually, this is really insensitive, 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.440 it's trivializing, it's stereotyping. 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:56.000 We don't like it at all. 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.240 So what have you achieved in the end, except for 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:02.359 paying a lot of Indigenous groups for their opinions, and 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:04.560 then you've got to decide which one to go with 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:09.040 to the States now, where the endless autopsies of the 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:13.480 Democrats demise is still underway, with one of the most 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:17.440 prevailing questions being how on earth do you raise over 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:21.480 a billion dollars and blow even more of that and 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:29.840 still lose. Here's DNC spokesperson Lindy Lee asking this very question, saying, heck, 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:32.639