Speaker 1: Oh good everyone. It's Craig, Anthony, Harpert, Tiffany and cook
Speaker 1: at David Bryan Gillespie. We should really learn his middle
Speaker 1: name at some stage in the future so I can
Speaker 1: be somewhat accurate. TIF, how are you going? You finished
Speaker 1: eating lunch about seven seconds ago.
Speaker 2: I'm still eating it, bro, I'm still eating it.
Speaker 1: What are you shoving in?
Speaker 2: There's a little bit of a little bit of a
Speaker 2: like a chucky moose, just a little snack to stop
Speaker 2: me from getting angry mid gilespo episode.
Speaker 1: Nobody needs that. No, no, we definitely don't. And what
Speaker 1: a wonderful choice chocolate moose in the middle of the day.
Speaker 1: I mean, surely if that's not the height of nutritional
Speaker 1: honey performance.
Speaker 2: Hey, what could I say? I'm just you know, bowles
Speaker 2: of kale and avocado all over the place.
Speaker 1: I think you've told me this before. But being the
Speaker 1: efficionado of chocolate that I know anyway, what's the number
Speaker 1: one and two for you in terms of not necessarily
Speaker 1: the fanciest or the most expensive, but just that you
Speaker 1: like the most.
Speaker 2: I've been I've been on the old gold lately. Just
Speaker 2: this deard old old gold.
Speaker 1: That's your basic that's your running the mill. Ron Harper
Speaker 1: eats that you and Noms could get together have an
Speaker 1: old Gold party.
Speaker 2: I'll bet you has Old Jamaica. Though you know I
Speaker 2: spend an obscene amount of money on the what's it
Speaker 2: called ceremonial grade cockow for my hot chocolates? That cow
Speaker 2: cockow so expensive, But you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It sounds it sounds like a raught. But what is
Speaker 1: I mean? I'm sure I'm the only one who doesn't know,
Speaker 1: but ceremonial grade cockow doesn't really what does that mean?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: If they're just great marketing and I'm spending I'm paying
Speaker 2: through the nose for it.
Speaker 1: Okay, hell gless, but that'll be. That'll be on buddy
Speaker 1: substack next week. Ceremonial grade ceremonial grade cockw cock cow
Speaker 1: Do you have giless? Buddy? You eat chocolate or no?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I do eat chocolate, but not not commercial chocolate.
Speaker 4: One of my daughters is very very good at making
Speaker 4: chocolate with dextros rather than sugar, and so she hand
Speaker 4: makes it.
Speaker 3: I don't think she uses ceremonial grade cocal though.
Speaker 4: I think she just buys Woolworths grade cockw.
Speaker 1: Does it taste like normal chocolate?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it tastes exactly like normal chocolate.
Speaker 4: So there's absolutely no reason to poison yourself just to
Speaker 4: eat chocolate.
Speaker 1: And so there's no there's no comparable commercial equivalent of
Speaker 1: what she makes.
Speaker 3: There is, but you can only buy it in Germany.
Speaker 4: So there seems to be for some reason, an enormous
Speaker 4: market for froctose free chocolate in Germany, and there's a
Speaker 4: manufacturer there who makes a lot of it. So whenever
Speaker 4: you're in Germany, you can always pick up a burrow
Speaker 4: of chocolate there, but no one imports it to Australia,
Speaker 4: so you have to make it yourself.
Speaker 1: What's your favorite, both of you, if you could, we'll
Speaker 1: get to the actual show in a minute, but if
Speaker 1: you could have a cheap food if you probably don't
Speaker 1: care because you've got veins on your fucking and eyebrows. So,
Speaker 1: and I've never seen Gillespie. I think he's actually some
Speaker 1: kind of cyborg. But imagine if I saw gilespo and
Speaker 1: he just looked like Brad Pitt and he had abs
Speaker 1: on his eyelids, and ow, I'd have to.
Speaker 3: It's actually what I look like exactly exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: What's your favorite cheap food? Tip? Like, if you could
Speaker 1: have a food whatever it was, that that magically didn't
Speaker 1: have any calories or negative impact, but you could scoff
Speaker 1: it once a week, what would that be?
Speaker 2: You say it like, I don't do that. That's not It's.
Speaker 1: All right, all right, Well forget the the precursor. What's
Speaker 1: your favorite binge food other than chocolate?
Speaker 2: Other than chocolate, pistachio cookies from the cookie Hey there
Speaker 2: cookie up the road?
Speaker 1: Do you have the binge gialspow?
Speaker 3: Not really?
Speaker 4: I mean I have a favorite food. There's probably two.
Speaker 4: I really like hot chips, yeah, and I don't mind
Speaker 4: the occasional bowl of ice cream.
Speaker 1: Hot chips are kind of like there's a really broad
Speaker 1: from the big fat wedges which you dip a little
Speaker 1: bit of sour cream on or whatever, to the skinny
Speaker 1: fries which are kind of disgusting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I prefer the sort of the in between ones,
Speaker 4: you oldie traditional Australian hot chip shop chips, you know,
Speaker 4: the sort of medium sized ones and.
Speaker 1: They come out and they look a bit yellow and
Speaker 1: they're cooked in vegetablel.
Speaker 4: No, we don't do that, cook them in tallow a
Speaker 4: bit and makes them very nice.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if anyone anything.
Speaker 4: I came across a restaurant the other day, I'll give
Speaker 4: them a bit of a plug on your show, because
Speaker 4: I think I like to encourage this sort of behavior.
Speaker 4: I was in Sydney and I went to a place
Speaker 4: called twenty four York and it is remarkably inexpenser for
Speaker 4: a steak restaurant. And they have a menu which is
Speaker 4: very straightforward. It's steak and only one kind. The only
Speaker 4: choice you get it whether or not to have an
Speaker 4: extra side, to have a side slid with it, and
Speaker 4: it comes with bottomless chips cooked in tallow.
Speaker 1: Oh that's what you need. So I don't know everybody
Speaker 1: needs that, but a one off can't hurt.
Speaker 3: I like the concept of bottomless chips. I mean they
Speaker 3: give you such an enormous.
Speaker 4: Amount anyway that I didn't actually take advantage of that,
Speaker 4: but I know people who.
Speaker 1: Would some there. Someone can go there with a friend
Speaker 1: and just share, so the friend to eat the stakes
Speaker 1: out bottom Yeah yeah, yeah, that's what if we just
Speaker 1: sit there for four hours reordering chips.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't like that experience because I've got no self control,
Speaker 2: so that just the idea of that almost piques my
Speaker 2: anxiety uncontrolled, unsupervised chip.
Speaker 4: But the big thing about it from my perspective was
Speaker 4: not the nice way of doing a menu, which keeps
Speaker 4: it really simple. It was the fact that the chips
Speaker 4: cooked in tellow so I genuinely could eat as many
Speaker 4: chips as I wanted, Not that I wanted that many, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I liked the idea. And all of that was
Speaker 3: for like twenty four bucks, which I think is a bargain.
Speaker 1: That is very cheap. And for the seven people who've
Speaker 1: been living under a rock and do not know why
Speaker 1: tallow and chips are acceptable on the Gillespie protocol, just
Speaker 1: remind us why that's okay.
Speaker 4: So, the dangerous thing about chips is when they're cooked
Speaker 4: in seed oils, and almost all chips in Australia now
Speaker 4: are cooked in seed oils because the Heart Foundation has
Speaker 4: been running around forcing people to do it. McDonald's sorry.
Speaker 4: The last major chain to switch from animal fat to
Speaker 4: seed oil was a KFC who did it in twenty twelve.
Speaker 4: McDonald's did it in two thousand and four where they
Speaker 4: switched from animal fat to seed oils. Now, if they'd
Speaker 4: stuck with animal fat. I'd be telling you it's perfectly
Speaker 4: fine to go and eat your chips at McDonald's because
Speaker 4: animal fat is very very low in the Amiga six fats,
Speaker 4: which are quiteangerous for us unfortunately.
Speaker 3: See it.
Speaker 4: Oil is a chock full of them, and so you're
Speaker 4: really doing it yourself and your children and your grandchildren
Speaker 4: an enormous amount of harm every time you have anything
Speaker 4: in that stuff.
Speaker 1: You have you I mean, we're going to talk about well,
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about a few things, but before
Speaker 1: we go there, have you ever kind of I know
Speaker 1: you're always analyzing the habits and behaviors and patterns of
Speaker 1: Australians and beyond, but you never looked at what like
Speaker 1: the typical ossie eight one hundred years ago and compared
Speaker 1: it to now just in terms of the nutritional value
Speaker 1: in micros and macros and calories, and like, what do
Speaker 1: you think in eighteen or nineteen twenty six, like a
Speaker 1: daily intake compared to now.
Speaker 4: There's not good data for Australians, but there is good
Speaker 4: data for Americans, which is probably a reasonable proxy. They've
Speaker 4: been measuring this sort of thing since nineteen oh nine.
Speaker 4: And if you have a look at the nineteen oh
Speaker 4: nine data for an American You mind it pretty surprising
Speaker 4: because they ate an awful lot of meat and eggs
Speaker 4: because breakfast cereal didn't exist or barely existed, or only
Speaker 4: for whack jobs. Who are you imprisoned in mental facilities?
Speaker 4: You know the story of why corn flax was invented? Right,
Speaker 4: people masturbating, And there's quite a story to that's just.
Speaker 1: Leaned in and opened her eyes this story.
Speaker 3: So there was there was a a church.
Speaker 2: So now you sound like a corn flake eater because
Speaker 2: you do a lot of stuttering.
Speaker 3: And I'm trying to remember the names.
Speaker 4: I don't want to get the names wrong, and I
Speaker 4: wasn't really prepared to be talking about this, but I'm
Speaker 4: pretty sure it's correct. Me if I'm wrong, Craig, is
Speaker 4: it Seventh day Adventist? I really don't want to get
Speaker 4: that wrong.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll check you too, you to check.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it is.
Speaker 4: So there was a church had a real problem with
Speaker 4: people eating meat as a because they felt that it
Speaker 4: increased the propensity to masturbation and other things, and so
Speaker 4: a part of their diet was that they had to
Speaker 4: come up with an alternative to what was then the
Speaker 4: standard American breakfast, which was basically meat and eggs, and
Speaker 4: they invented what we now call corn flakes, which was
Speaker 4: a vegetarian version of you know, the standard American breakfast.
Speaker 4: And so yeah, that's just check on that religion that
Speaker 4: I've got the right religion there.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to go. Yes, conflicts are strongly connected
Speaker 1: to the Seventh.
Speaker 4: Day a Day Adventist and one of their founders was
Speaker 4: one of the Kellogg brothers.
Speaker 1: That's right, yes, well two of them, invented by doctor
Speaker 1: John Harvey Kellogg and his brother will Keith Kellogg in
Speaker 1: the eighth nine. In the late nineteenth century, the brothers
Speaker 1: are working out Battle Creek Sanitarium in Michigan, USA, experimenting
Speaker 1: with foods for patients. In eighteen ninety four, they accidentally
Speaker 1: discovered that cooked wheat left sitting too long could be
Speaker 1: rolled into flakes. They later switched from wheat to corn,
Speaker 1: creating what became corn flakes. Well, what an interesting genesis
Speaker 1: that was for the old breakfast cereal.
Speaker 4: Hey, and now it's what we all have. We're all
Speaker 4: accidentally vegetarian for breakfast. But at the turn of the century, Americans, sorry,
Speaker 4: excuse me, Americans and presumably Australians, probably Australians were eating
Speaker 4: mostly cooked breakfasts, breakfasts for breakfast, cooked food for breakfasts,
Speaker 4: and wash.
Speaker 1: You never get tongue tied. I'm making a bloody reel
Speaker 1: out of that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I got a frobm a throat. Must have eaten
Speaker 4: too many frogs for breakas anyway, So the diet has
Speaker 4: changed fairly significantly because we've transitioned away from a diet
Speaker 4: which was largely centered around the idea that you have
Speaker 4: two main meals in a day, So an agricultural focused
Speaker 4: diet which was to give you a big, heavy meal
Speaker 4: for breakfast to keep you going when you're out in
Speaker 4: the fields all day, and then give you a follow
Speaker 4: up meal at nighttime when you came home. So there
Speaker 4: wasn't really any sort of a real sense of something
Speaker 4: called lunch, and we've sort of inserted that. As the
Speaker 4: Industrial Revolution took over and people started to have long
Speaker 4: shifts in factories, they sort of inserted a meal in
Speaker 4: the middle. But what's in those meals is quite interesting
Speaker 4: because it's transitioned away from a largely meat an egg
Speaker 4: based diet with vegetables. If you couldn't get meat and
Speaker 4: eggs into what would own be described if you were
Speaker 4: looking at it from their perspective. A vegetarian diet which
Speaker 4: is largely wheat based, flour based, bread based, that kind
Speaker 4: of thing, which is now the majority of the modern diet.
Speaker 1: Just remind me what the original intention was behind the
Speaker 1: corn flakes and the masturbation? What was it to reduce masturbation?
Speaker 4: Well, because they were vegetarian, so they had to have
Speaker 4: something that you could eat for breakfast that was vegetarian.
Speaker 1: What has that got to do with massive?
Speaker 4: Sorry they felt I know you're focusing on this, but.
Speaker 1: I just want to see if it worked out as
Speaker 1: a concept.
Speaker 4: They believed that meat inflame of the passions, so to speak,
Speaker 4: r and would cause you to indulge.
Speaker 3: A little bit more than would otherwise be the case.
Speaker 1: Right, So we're going to take it from a tasty
Speaker 1: meat based diet to corn flakes and that should take that.
Speaker 3: That's just sort that out.
Speaker 1: That should fix that quick sticks. Have you ever just
Speaker 1: out of interest how to look at One of my
Speaker 1: friends is a farmer, and he's always, not always, but
Speaker 1: talking about semi regularly about the quality of the soil
Speaker 1: and what things are grown in and the difference between
Speaker 1: something you know, a crop might be a good environment,
Speaker 1: might be good weather and all of that and good planning,
Speaker 1: but the soil's crap is our soil getting crapper and
Speaker 1: crapper and doing giving us poorer and poorer yields.
Speaker 3: Probably not. I mean, Australia starts really behind.
Speaker 4: The eight ball there because we've got the worst soil
Speaker 4: for growing stuff in in the world, all continent with
Speaker 4: bad soil with not much nutrients.
Speaker 3: So we're in a bad way.
Speaker 4: So we have to en nutrient, which we do with
Speaker 4: fertilizers to get the kind of production we have. But
Speaker 4: if you just step back and say, let's ignore the
Speaker 4: fact that we're pumping a lot of fertilized are into
Speaker 4: the soil, Australia's soil is probably better now than it's
Speaker 4: ever been because of all of that, right right, all.
Speaker 1: Right, Well, I want to touch on something you wrote.
Speaker 1: It's about five or six days ago, now, seven days ago,
Speaker 1: a week ago, the tech to meth pipeline. If you
Speaker 1: could give us a snapshot this. Every time Australia flushes,
Speaker 1: the truth comes out. And right now our sewers are
Speaker 1: spilling our darkest secrets. The latest national wastewater data is
Speaker 1: exposed an eleven billion dollar catastrophe Australians are quietly consuming.
Speaker 1: Listen to this tip, This fucking mind blowing five hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty three million hits of methan fetter many year,
Speaker 1: securing our grim title as the second highest consumer of
Speaker 1: the drug meth on Earth. But this story isn't about
Speaker 1: illegal drugs or organized crime. It's terrifying. Look at what
Speaker 1: happens when big tech breaks our brains, the medical system
Speaker 1: hits its legal limit, and the dopamine star population turns
Speaker 1: to the black market just to function. And here's a
Speaker 1: couple of stats. Australian's consumed, as it said, five and
Speaker 1: twenty three million doses of myth last year. That equates
Speaker 1: to roughly twenty hits for every single man, woman and
Speaker 1: child in the country. The illegal drug market is now
Speaker 1: worth fourteen point three billion, with meth accounting for eleven
Speaker 1: billion of that fourteen point three A technologically induced focus
Speaker 1: epidemic has driven unprecedented demand pharmaceutical stimulants. Strict legal limits
Speaker 1: on ADHD medications are inadvertently funneling desperate patients in to
Speaker 1: the black market. Because they can't get enough of what
Speaker 1: they want legally or by prescription, I guess. And the
Speaker 1: pipeline is fast tracking and general general sorry, generational mental
Speaker 1: health crisis and skyrocketing rates of permanent psychosis. So nothing
Speaker 1: at all to worry about, David.
Speaker 4: No, nothing to worry about at all. Let's start at
Speaker 4: the top with the report. So you and I think
Speaker 4: have talked about this before, that the National Crime Commission
Speaker 4: conducts this survey of our wastewater and has been doing
Speaker 4: it for quite some time. So they've got really high
Speaker 4: quality long term stats about not what we say we do,
Speaker 4: but what our toilets tell the Crime Commission we do.
Speaker 4: And so they know exactly what people are taking based
Speaker 4: on what chemicals are in the sewer system.
Speaker 3: And they're not the only ones. This is done all
Speaker 3: around the world.
Speaker 4: There's now twenty six countries involved in this, and so
Speaker 4: they've got really really accurate long term measurements of this.
Speaker 1: And I've got a new I've got a new title
Speaker 1: for you next article, a book. It's called Your Poo
Speaker 1: and you the great self, the Great Revealer of the bog.
Speaker 4: I mean, most people will be surprised that they do it,
Speaker 4: but they do, and the reason they do it is
Speaker 4: it's the only way you can get really statistically accurate
Speaker 4: information about illegal drugs, and so they measure for everything.
Speaker 4: But the one that's just absolutely blowing them away is meth.
Speaker 4: It's now responsible for eight out of every ten dollars
Speaker 4: spent on drugs in this country. It grew by twenty
Speaker 4: three percent in the last year. The consumption of myth
Speaker 4: grew by twenty three percent. That's never happened before in
Speaker 4: the history of this report. They normally get, you know,
Speaker 4: sometimes it goes up a little bit and sometimes it
Speaker 4: goes down a little bit, but this kind of absolute
Speaker 4: extreme growth and not just the you know, the others
Speaker 4: grew as well, heroin and cocaine, we're all up in
Speaker 4: the twenty percents as well, but to have something growing
Speaker 4: that fast to those levels, and like I said, now
Speaker 4: number two in the world for per capita consumption of myth.
Speaker 4: Number one is the United States, but we're giving them
Speaker 4: a run for their money. And that's a real concern
Speaker 4: because one in three meth users as a psychotic event.
Speaker 4: So psychotic events just so everyone knows, I mean, people
Speaker 4: throw those terms around without really understanding what they mean.
Speaker 4: A psychotic event means the person believes that the people
Speaker 4: around them are actively trying to harm them, and that
Speaker 4: it is perfectly acceptable to harm them in return to
Speaker 4: defend yourself. So a psychotic event is not nothing. It
Speaker 4: is a very dangerous thing to have occur and having
Speaker 4: people then it's not something that they can control. They
Speaker 4: genuinely believe that they are in danger and must do
Speaker 4: whatever it takes to defend themselves. So increasingly we hear
Speaker 4: about crimes being committed by people, and the crime is
Speaker 4: often described as some of the person was having a
Speaker 4: mental health episode, and usually what they mean is a
Speaker 4: psychotic event. So we are ramping up the number of
Speaker 4: people in our society exposed to drug that producers a
Speaker 4: psychotic event one in three times.
Speaker 3: That's dangerous. That is really dangerous.
Speaker 4: But the interesting thing from the perspective of someone who
Speaker 4: writes about mental health is why, why is this suddenly happening?
Speaker 4: Why in Australia we've always had access to meth, we've
Speaker 4: always had access to cocaine and heroin as illegal drugs.
Speaker 4: Why is it suddenly happening when we've got better and
Speaker 4: stronger law enforcement than we've ever had before. Better border
Speaker 4: controls than we've ever had before. What's causing this to happen?
Speaker 4: And I'm putting it together with something else in this article,
Speaker 4: which is I'm saying we've got another type of emfetamine
Speaker 4: drug which is exploding in use. Legally prescribed ampheta means
Speaker 4: for ADHD grew more than thirty percent in the last year,
Speaker 4: and more than thirty percent the year before that, and
Speaker 4: more than thirty percent the year before that. We are
Speaker 4: on a runaway train with legally prescribed and phetamines for ADHD. Yes, Now,
Speaker 4: as I said to you before, and some of your
Speaker 4: listeners will understand this, and I'll probably bored to death
Speaker 4: for the next minute or so, but let's just step
Speaker 4: back as to why ADHD people are being given amphetamines.
Speaker 4: Because it's sort of counter and churitor. You've got a
Speaker 4: kid bouncing off the walls. You don't sit to say
Speaker 4: to yourself, well, you know what that kid needs is
Speaker 4: a bit of speed.
Speaker 3: That's really going to help. But that's in fact how
Speaker 3: it works.
Speaker 4: So the reason that this works is that when you
Speaker 4: become addicted to something, which is what happens when you're
Speaker 4: programmatically addicted to social media, or gaming or gambling or
Speaker 4: anything else, nicotine, alcohol, anything. The level of dopamine required
Speaker 4: by your brain in order for you to function normally increases.
Speaker 4: You become you become immune the effects of dopamine, and
Speaker 4: you require more, and that chasing of more and more
Speaker 4: and more is what we call addiction. But that moving
Speaker 4: of the baseline level means that in order for you
Speaker 4: to just function, you need a massive dopamine hit. The
Speaker 4: fastest way to get that is to take an amphetamine,
Speaker 4: which is a dopamine stimulant. So that's what's happening in
Speaker 4: the illegal drug market, which is it's growing massively the
Speaker 4: number of stimulants. We're up to two hundred million doses
Speaker 4: a year of legal amphetamine doses. That's people being handed
Speaker 4: for their ADHD.
Speaker 1: One hundred million.
Speaker 4: Yes, so this is you know, it's still not a
Speaker 4: patch on the illegal market. But what happens is that
Speaker 4: once you're on that conveyor belt, the amphetamine hit makes
Speaker 4: things worse longer term because it also ratchets up you're
Speaker 4: required for dopamine. So you need a little bit more
Speaker 4: next time, in a little bit more next time, a
Speaker 4: little bit more next time. The trouble is doctors can't
Speaker 4: keep up in your dose of amphetamines because it's a
Speaker 4: dangerous thing to do.
Speaker 3: They're highly addictive.
Speaker 4: Drugs and they're not going they wouldn't be medically responsible
Speaker 4: to do it, and it is illegal.
Speaker 3: So there are strict prescription.
Speaker 4: Limits on how much amphetamine a doctor can give you
Speaker 4: for your ADHD, And when they hit those limits, you
Speaker 4: just don't suddenly get better. You're just told, unfortunately, I
Speaker 4: can't give you any more. And I believe that's what's
Speaker 4: driving the demand in the illegal meth amphetamine market, where
Speaker 4: we now have more than twice as much mess being
Speaker 4: sold illegally as we have amphetamines being sold legally. And
Speaker 4: by the way, I keep using the terms meth for
Speaker 4: illegal and antheta means for legal.
Speaker 3: They're twins. They're identical, twin cousins.
Speaker 4: Right, They're not exactly chemically the same, but they have
Speaker 4: exactly the same effect. The myth just the meth addition
Speaker 4: to the structure of the molecule just lets it get
Speaker 4: across the blood brain barrier a little bit quicker, so
Speaker 4: it's a little bit more potent, but it's essentially the
Speaker 4: same chemical.
Speaker 1: Can I ask you just a couple of questions I'm
Speaker 1: going to sound even dumber than usual here, but I've
Speaker 1: never used recreational drugs ever, and I think the only
Speaker 1: time I've ever been around drugs is a couple of
Speaker 1: times when people are smoking dope or something. So I
Speaker 1: am genuinely ignorant in this space. But why is meth
Speaker 1: so popular? Is it because it's easily available and it's
Speaker 1: relatively cheap, or like or it gives people the best high?
Speaker 1: Or I don't know, why is it such a standout?
Speaker 1: That's the wrong term, But you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I don't know is the answer. I think it's probably
Speaker 3: all of the above.
Speaker 4: I think it's the most it's the closest equivalent to
Speaker 4: the legal drugs people have been being prescribed and for
Speaker 4: mean in terms of its effect, and I think it's
Speaker 4: relatively available and relatively cheap, and it is also there's
Speaker 4: also probably it's probably got a bit of an image
Speaker 4: for advantage as well, in that it's, you know, I
Speaker 4: guess someone's selling it would say this is the same
Speaker 4: as the stuff you've been legally permitted to take. This
Speaker 4: is not heroin or cocaine, you know, So I guess
Speaker 4: there's that marketing advantage to it as well. But I'm
Speaker 4: not intimate enough with the details of the drug market pace.
Speaker 4: We could ask tiff, you know, to know which is
Speaker 4: cheaper or more expensive, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2: But I don't think that meth has had a good
Speaker 2: pr manager. I wouldn't say that meth has any.
Speaker 1: Good branding about it.
Speaker 2: I think what the opposite is it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they're doing okay, aren't they.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, it's eight out of ten, every
Speaker 4: eight out of ten dollars spent on drugs in Australia
Speaker 4: going on men.
Speaker 1: That's selling like hotcakes, so to speak.
Speaker 2: I'll stick with my Pistacia cookies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, Sorry, back to the tech meth pipeline.
Speaker 4: Okay, So, if you're going to give a kid something
Speaker 4: that drives up their both mean levels to the point
Speaker 4: where they need medication just to function, which is what's happening,
Speaker 4: and then that medication eventually eats its legal limits in
Speaker 4: terms of how much you get, then you're manufacturing meth addicts.
Speaker 3: That's what's going on. We're manufacturing meth addicts.
Speaker 4: And if that was just unfortunate or a waste of
Speaker 4: time or jeez, that's that's not a good thing, then
Speaker 4: I guess you know, people could go test tisk, But
Speaker 4: meth addicts become psychotics, becomes itzophrenics, and we are converting
Speaker 4: a large percentage and growing every day of our youth
Speaker 4: into ultimately drug induced psychotics. And that is not a
Speaker 4: good thing for our society at all. And these numbers
Speaker 4: are proving it out. This is it's not like me
Speaker 4: having a theory and then saying and then the number
Speaker 4: is not coming out. You know, if we had numbers
Speaker 4: that showed that myth was actually going down in consumption,
Speaker 4: then we've got to look somewhere else. But growing at
Speaker 4: twenty three percent a year, that's incredible. That's beyond anything
Speaker 4: we've ever seen before. And what I'm putting forward is
Speaker 4: there's a really good reason for it, which is that
Speaker 4: most people who need amphetamines as a stimulant drug just
Speaker 4: to get through the day. We'll tell you this thing.
Speaker 4: These things work like magic. They take the drug and
Speaker 4: straight away they are back to the way they used
Speaker 4: to be. Straight Away they've lost all the mind fog
Speaker 4: and the inability to focus, and for the duration or
Speaker 4: the for hour duration of that drug, they can feel normal.
Speaker 4: So this is what's going on and when a person
Speaker 4: hits the prescribing limit for that, and the alternative is
Speaker 4: to crash out without any thing, or obtain an equivalent
Speaker 4: on the black market. It seems that's what they're doing.
Speaker 1: Yes, And it's one of the ever present problems with
Speaker 1: anything that gives you that greater impact almost instantly and
Speaker 1: at last, you know, for four hours. But there's, like
Speaker 1: you did, over time, obviously there's diminishing return. As you said,
Speaker 1: So the dose that you were prescribed worked, and then
Speaker 1: you needed a bit more and a bit more, and
Speaker 1: then it didn't. And then so we're kind of we're
Speaker 1: kind of pushing people into a box that they can't
Speaker 1: get out of because it's it's not like, well, they
Speaker 1: can take this and they'll be good moving forward now,
Speaker 1: because they've always got to take more and more to
Speaker 1: you know, offset the diminishing kind of capacity of the
Speaker 1: receptors to get the same like effect.
Speaker 4: Well, that's the reality of what we're in. So we've
Speaker 4: got a band aid that is in fact making the
Speaker 4: problem worse, and there are no solutions to the rest
Speaker 4: of it other than stopping it happening in the first place,
Speaker 4: or somehow coming up with a unified national program to
Speaker 4: get people off these drugs. But that's going to start
Speaker 4: with stop giving them to them in the first place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And is there any I mean, is
Speaker 1: there any foreseeable kind of solution or strategy that's going
Speaker 1: to be somewhat effective to this, because it doesn't like,
Speaker 1: it doesn't paint a great picture for the future.
Speaker 4: The best solution is just coincidentally in my latest book,
Speaker 4: which is you're not the Prime minister, not last time
Speaker 4: I looked, and you're not the government, and you can't
Speaker 4: set policy and you can't do any of the things
Speaker 4: that I just suggested. But what you can do is
Speaker 4: fix yourself. What you can do is get off the
Speaker 4: things that are the start of this pathway, regain control
Speaker 4: over your dopamine in summation. The good news out of
Speaker 4: this is that yes, whilst the brain is actually rewired
Speaker 4: by this addiction, it can be wired back again by
Speaker 4: just staying away from dope meine stimulation for three months.
Speaker 3: That's it. And in the book I do set out a.
Speaker 4: Plan for how to do that, and it starts with
Speaker 4: a thirty day period of absolute abstinence and then controlled reintroduction.
Speaker 4: So it is possible to turn it around. It's very,
Speaker 4: very much harder if you're addicted to methamphetamine. But if
Speaker 4: you start at the start and acknowledge that what's going
Speaker 4: on in your relationship with technology, alcohol, cigarettes, etc. Is
Speaker 4: in fact addiction, then and break that, then you're taking
Speaker 4: yourself off the conveyor belt.
Speaker 1: It's theoretically right, of course, but experientially and practically super difficult,
Speaker 1: because you're kind of saying to an addict, don't be
Speaker 1: an addict. Don't see what addicts do, Like, I know
Speaker 1: you're addicted, but just stop it.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, if we were easy, you wouldn't be an addict.
Speaker 4: I have absolutely no trouble at all stopping eating broccoli.
Speaker 4: It's no trouble at all because I'm not addicted to it.
Speaker 4: The definition of addiction is it's hard to stop, which
Speaker 4: is why you need a plan for how to do it,
Speaker 4: which is why I bothered writing a book about it.
Speaker 1: I guess this is a bit of a left term,
Speaker 1: but just and this is not advice or anything everyone,
Speaker 1: but just a broad opinion of the effectiveness or otherwise
Speaker 1: of treatment centers, rehabs, Like have you opened the door
Speaker 1: and had to look at that at.
Speaker 3: All I have. I have and done it quite thoroughly.
Speaker 4: It depends what they do and how they do it.
Speaker 4: But if what is going on in that treatment center
Speaker 4: is keeping you away from all forms of dopamine stimulation
Speaker 4: for at least thirty days, then you have a significantly
Speaker 4: higher chance of breaking in an addiction. There are other
Speaker 4: things that work that we know work. So I did
Speaker 4: a thorough analysis of all of the things that people
Speaker 4: have ever done for breaking addictions of all kinds, and
Speaker 4: the one that comes up absolute top is alcoholics anonymous.
Speaker 4: Not because of the particulars of how it's done, which
Speaker 4: is a heavily religious oriented thing because it started with
Speaker 4: a church group, but if you just look at exactly
Speaker 4: what they're asking you to do, and the important things
Speaker 4: are regular meetings in person where you are accountable for
Speaker 4: what you've done in the last set even days, So
Speaker 4: that accountability thing is a strong factor in its success.
Speaker 4: Now they claim that they achieve rates of up to
Speaker 4: thirty percent, so one in three people who do this
Speaker 4: actually do manage to break their alcoholism. Now, by definition,
Speaker 4: they're anonymous, so it's very hard to verify that, but
Speaker 4: it seems consistent with the research in this area that
Speaker 4: suggests a methodology like that will work. What doesn't matter
Speaker 4: is the qualifications of the person who's leading the group,
Speaker 4: whether they're a psychologist, doctor, whatever, or just a person
Speaker 4: who was once an addict to themselves. It's all fine.
Speaker 4: It's important though, to have that accountability element to it,
Speaker 4: which is why in the plan that I put together,
Speaker 4: accountability is one of the core features of it. You
Speaker 4: have to have a mechanism where you are publicly accountable
Speaker 4: to someone other than yourself or the fact that you
Speaker 4: have stayed off the addicting thing.
Speaker 1: Kind of a silly analogy, but kind of true. Is
Speaker 1: the fact that, like when I started personal training back
Speaker 1: when you were in your twenties and so was I,
Speaker 1: there were no personal trainers in Australia, so there was
Speaker 1: that we kind of it would have happened despite me anyway,
Speaker 1: but I introduced you know where, Now people have got
Speaker 1: structure and process and accountability. They've got appointment times two
Speaker 1: or three days a week or whatever it was. So
Speaker 1: people who had access to the gym before but didn't go,
Speaker 1: now they've got someone waiting for them on a set
Speaker 1: data to set time, and not because they got better
Speaker 1: genetics or necessarily even better information. But just because they
Speaker 1: were required to be with somebody for an hour three
Speaker 1: times a week, people got drastically better results than the
Speaker 1: regular gym members who didn't have that accountability. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm with you. I think some having someone or someone's
Speaker 1: else kind of invested in, or at least supportive of,
Speaker 1: or curious about your endeavors to change and get clean
Speaker 1: and sober, or improve or get more muscle or get
Speaker 1: fit or whatever it is. I reckon it. It's a
Speaker 1: big part of it. I think that social kind of
Speaker 1: intersection of people on a similar path is really important.
Speaker 3: There's oh no, no, let's dig into that one a
Speaker 3: little bit.
Speaker 4: So there's good neuropsychology behind that, which is we get
Speaker 4: an oxytocin hit when we do something that other people
Speaker 4: tell us they like. So if you have a gym buddy,
Speaker 4: if you have someone who is going to turn up
Speaker 4: and expect you to be there and is going to
Speaker 4: support you and doing it, and you're going to support them,
Speaker 4: you're both giving each other oxytocin hits. It's why there's
Speaker 4: plenty of studies on this. You probably know them better
Speaker 4: than I do. The people who work out alone are
Speaker 4: much less likely to stick out it than people who
Speaker 4: work out with a partner. And it's that oxytocin feedback
Speaker 4: loop where social animals neurochemicals which are designed to reinforce
Speaker 4: that social aspect to our lives, and so being accountable
Speaker 4: to somebody is a big part of why alcoholics anonymous works.
Speaker 4: It's a big part of why that gym thing works.
Speaker 4: It's you get feedback from that person, which is positive
Speaker 4: because you showed up. And eventually, with jimming, you get
Speaker 4: to the point where you're also generating pheromones from doing it. Pheromones, pheromones,
Speaker 4: you're not a cat were You're also generating orphans endorphins. Sorry,
Speaker 4: see Midday, I'm off, I'm completely off my game here,
Speaker 4: and do orphans from doing it, because you know, the
Speaker 4: harder and harder it gets, the more endorphins you've produced
Speaker 4: as painkillers essentially, and they themselves are addictive, so you
Speaker 4: convert the mild head of the oxytocin to the stronger
Speaker 4: head of the endorphins.
Speaker 1: I might call this episode pheromones and endorphins, and then
Speaker 1: in brackets wait for it, I think also, I don't
Speaker 1: know what it is now, but there was a period
Speaker 1: over the last twenty years in Australia, where the average
Speaker 1: active gym membership GLESPO was fifteen percent, which meant that
Speaker 1: for every hundred current gym members so people who currently
Speaker 1: have a membership, eighty five of them didn't go either
Speaker 1: at all or more than once a week. So the
Speaker 1: people who set out where they went, they joined a gym,
Speaker 1: they paid their money, they got a program, they were
Speaker 1: fully intended that they would go and train three or
Speaker 1: four days a week. They changed their body life thinking
Speaker 1: habits da dada. Yeah. Well, and truly more than half
Speaker 1: the people have a membership don't go at all. And
Speaker 1: you think about the little gym that I train at.
Speaker 1: I'll give them a shout out snap, which is a
Speaker 1: little gym up in Moravin, but well it's not that
Speaker 1: little actually used to be one of my gyms. But anyway,
Speaker 1: it's not a huge gym. But I don't know what
Speaker 1: they would have, but it would have to be well
Speaker 1: over twelve thirteen to fourteen handred members. And you think, wow,
Speaker 1: if even a tenth of them rock up tonight for
Speaker 1: a workout, like, we're in trouble. Because they know that
Speaker 1: and this is not the fault of the gym's But
Speaker 1: I had this sorry this is I'm trying not to
Speaker 1: drag this on, but I had basically a teacher, a
Speaker 1: mentor who I worked for in the eighties and he
Speaker 1: had the biggest gym in Australia was called Ringwood Supergym
Speaker 1: and forty four thousand square feet. Anyway, one day, we're
Speaker 1: doing this sales thing and we're just selling the shit
Speaker 1: out of memberships and people were coming in. And even
Speaker 1: though it was huge, I said to him one day, like,
Speaker 1: when do we stop selling memberships? And he looked me
Speaker 1: like I was a Martian and he goes, we don't.
Speaker 1: And I go, but how many people can we fit in?
Speaker 1: And he said, it doesn't matter. They won't come. He goes,
Speaker 1: like a lot of them, like a lot of them
Speaker 1: that come through the door, all enthusiastic. And I was
Speaker 1: in my twenties. I'm like what he goes, Yeah, you watch,
Speaker 1: most of them won't come. They'll say they'll come, they
Speaker 1: sign up, they'll pay their dough and it's here for them.
Speaker 1: We're here for them, the facilities here, the resources are here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's that oh yeah, And I think back to
Speaker 1: the you know when personal training started in Australia. A
Speaker 1: lot of people were critical, saying, well, basically, you're just
Speaker 1: it's more to it than this. But in a way,
Speaker 1: I understand the obception. You're standing next to someone while
Speaker 1: they do a workout and getting whatever. Back in the day,
Speaker 1: it was like forty bucks when gym instructors were earning
Speaker 1: twelve bucks, right, and I'd say, yeah, that's kind of right.
Speaker 1: It's a bit more than that's kind of right. But
Speaker 1: the truth is, if I'm not standing here, they won't
Speaker 1: come in and they won't turn up and they won't
Speaker 1: do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people are like, ah, just do it yourself. What's
Speaker 1: the I'm like, I agree with you. Theoretically that is brilliant. Practically,
Speaker 1: in the real world people don't show up.
Speaker 4: Yeah, accountability matters, And I guess the other stat is
Speaker 4: probably that most of those gym memberships are required.
Speaker 3: In January.
Speaker 4: There's a stat in book industry that you sell more
Speaker 4: diet books in January than you sell in the rest
Speaker 4: of the year combined.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, of course, of course. Now before we go,
Speaker 1: so your new book is just out a week ago
Speaker 1: now or so. The attention recovery plan you've generously given
Speaker 1: or donated five books to some of my listeners. We
Speaker 1: did a little kind of you know what was funny.
Speaker 1: We did a thing on my Facebook page for the
Speaker 1: U Project and I said to them, I was trying
Speaker 1: to think, how do I give away books? So it's
Speaker 1: like totally random and I'm not preferencing anyone, and nobody's
Speaker 1: got any advantage. And I said, here's the thing. So
Speaker 1: I said, I used to live in this house in
Speaker 1: the tro Valley, and the number of the house is
Speaker 1: between one and one hundred. So the person who guesses
Speaker 1: the number, the five people who get closest to the
Speaker 1: number get the number, or get closest to the number,
Speaker 1: we'll get a book. And as I after I've done that,
Speaker 1: I thought, fuck, what if six guests the right number,
Speaker 1: I'm in trouble. But anyway, so we had about I
Speaker 1: think somewhere like one hundred and fifty or sixty people
Speaker 1: came in and guessed the number between one and one hundred,
Speaker 1: and not one of them guessed the number, like nobody
Speaker 1: guessed the number, which I well, the number was thirty six,
Speaker 1: but you're going.
Speaker 3: To say it was one hundred and five.
Speaker 1: No, No, no, yeah, thirty six. I think four people
Speaker 1: guess thirty seven and one maybe guest thirty three or
Speaker 1: something like that. But yeah, anyway, so how has it gone.
Speaker 1: Are you selling a few?
Speaker 3: Well, absolutely no idea. It's been out there for a week.
Speaker 4: And the publisher of the last thing in the world
Speaker 4: they will tell me is anything after it's only been
Speaker 4: out there a week.
Speaker 3: So absolutely no idea.
Speaker 4: Look, look, I don't as you know, Craig, you don't
Speaker 4: become a billionaire from selling books. The only reason I
Speaker 4: write them is in the hope that the problem that
Speaker 4: the book identifies, you know, that the book can help you,
Speaker 4: at a personal level, solve that problem. And as I said,
Speaker 4: this is not about policy. This is not about changing
Speaker 4: the drug market or you know, the ADHD medication mark
Speaker 4: or any of that sort of stuff, just like the
Speaker 4: sugar books were not about changing the market there. It's
Speaker 4: about saying, okay, well there's one person you can help,
Speaker 4: and that's the person reading the book, and this is
Speaker 4: a formula for them, and if they apply it, it'll
Speaker 4: help them, and you know, good on them if they do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, remember we were talking about a certain person before
Speaker 1: we went live and an experience that you just had
Speaker 1: around self promotion.
Speaker 3: Who are we talking about.
Speaker 1: I can't say because we're on the podcast.
Speaker 4: Maybe someone you sign it out, Maybe someone that.
Speaker 1: You recently encountered. Oh yes, yeah, of course, what's wrong
Speaker 1: with your brain? That was like a ten minute chad
Speaker 1: one minute before the show.
Speaker 3: Well it was an hour ago though, so that person
Speaker 3: I haven't harps.
Speaker 1: It's like and you looked at me like, this is
Speaker 1: anyway glessose the opposite of that less pose the opposite
Speaker 1: of that person, Yes, isn't it?
Speaker 2: And thank good?
Speaker 1: It's like, fucking try harder to sell your book, will you?
Speaker 1: You're the worst promoter of your own shit in the
Speaker 1: history of promotion. Hey, everyone to call the attention recovery plan.
Speaker 1: Now I've just had a bit of a look. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm not telling you where to go or where not
Speaker 1: to go. Of course, you can order it online through
Speaker 1: Pam McMillan I think it is, yes, Or you can
Speaker 1: go to hang on hear me out, You can go
Speaker 1: to where can you go? You can go to Dimmicks
Speaker 1: and thirty some bucks or or Big W and pay
Speaker 1: twenty five bucks.
Speaker 4: Or you just got an Amazon I think similar price
Speaker 4: to Big W. There it didn't look anywhere that sells books.
Speaker 4: But yeah, there's a variety of prices you'll pay, so
Speaker 4: look around.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we appreciate you. We'll say goodbye a fair
Speaker 1: and tif can you go and have some fucking omega
Speaker 1: threes or something? Eat eat a fish for lunch?
Speaker 5: God, god, oh goodness what And you looked at me
Speaker 5: like dumbfounded. We had this whole conversation and you're like, nah.
Speaker 1: Bless foe, thank you.
Speaker 3: See yeah for the pleasure, see you later.