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Speaker 1: Now, as you'd be aware, the ALP yesterday cut ties

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Speaker 1: with the cfmeu's construction business following allegations of corruption. The

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Speaker 1: National Executive met unanimously deciding to suspend affiliation with branches

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Speaker 1: in SA, New South Wales, Victoria and Tasmania. Now there's

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Speaker 1: all sorts of issues there, allegations of intimidation, bullying, extortion, blackmail.

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Speaker 1: This is according to the Civil Contractors Federation of South

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Speaker 1: Australia Coercion Rebecca Pickering from the CCF of SSAY says

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Speaker 1: the crackdown is long over due. She was on five

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Speaker 1: double a Breakfast yesterday and had this to say.

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Speaker 2: We have definitely seen a significant increase in the amount

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Speaker 2: of inappropriate and illegal activity with regards to the CFMAU

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Speaker 2: and how they interrupted civil contractors right down to even

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Speaker 2: freedom of association. It's just relat in disregard.

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Speaker 1: To the law, she says. The crackdown or the lack

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Speaker 1: of affiliation, the suspension doesn't go far enough. The government,

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Speaker 1: she says, needs to go further.

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Speaker 2: She lives the ABCC restored or something similar in a

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Speaker 2: similar authority that our contractors can go to without fear

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Speaker 2: of reprisal. With those whistleblower protections for they're boys to

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Speaker 2: be heard so things can be fully investigated.

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Speaker 1: This is the Building and Contractors Federation Construction Federation that

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Speaker 1: the Albanesi government scrapped when they came into power, one

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Speaker 1: of their first acts. Over the last two years, of course,

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Speaker 1: these allegations have grown louder and louder, to the point

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Speaker 1: they're at today Doctor Susan Close, acting Premiere, on the

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Speaker 1: state government's moves here. Dr Close, good morning, Thank you

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Speaker 1: for coming on. Are you concerned with the allegations Rebecca

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Speaker 1: Pickering mate and what's been done to investigate those further?

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Speaker 3: Good morning, Matthew, good to talk to you. Yes, look,

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Speaker 3: really shocking allegations, particularly what we saw on the nine,

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Speaker 3: in the nine News and newspapers that in Victoria really

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Speaker 3: serious of illegal behavior as well as bullying and harassment.

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Speaker 3: And so what we've done in South Australia, looking over

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Speaker 3: the border and knowing that the two branches are united,

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Speaker 3: the South Australian CFMU and the Victorian CSMU, we've immediately

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Speaker 3: got on to the Police Commissioner. The Premier's phoned. Even

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Speaker 3: though he's on holiday, he stays very active and very

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Speaker 3: close to what's going on, phoned the commission or Police

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Speaker 3: commissioner had to chat to him and they've determined that

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Speaker 3: there will be a Police commissioner's inquiry into any illegal

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Speaker 3: activities occurring here. What we've also done just remembering that

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Speaker 3: most of what happens, if it's on private building sites

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Speaker 3: and so on, is covered by the Federal work scheme,

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Speaker 3: So the industrial relations is a federal industrial relations environment.

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Speaker 3: But we thought, let's have a look at our own

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Speaker 3: contracts for government infrastructure. So the Infrastructure Department is working

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Speaker 3: through looking at the contracts that they have and determining

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Speaker 3: whether there's been any illegal activity, whether it's anything needs

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Speaker 3: to change in our processes, making sure that anything that

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Speaker 3: does come up obviously would go straight to the police

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Speaker 3: for activity for action. So we are working on making

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Speaker 3: sure that South Australia is clean. Noting that the real

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Speaker 3: allegations that have been aired publicly have largely been in Victoria.

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Speaker 3: But I take account of what Rebecca has said, I

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Speaker 3: assume that when her people have seen i llegal activity,

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Speaker 3: that they have reported that to the various authorities that

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Speaker 3: are responsible, primarily the police, but there are others. But

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Speaker 3: we just need to make sure that people feel safe

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Speaker 3: to do that and they're able to be really clear

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Speaker 3: what's occurred to them if if.

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Speaker 1: Something has it seems in hindsight the Building and Construction

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Speaker 1: Commission was actually effective. Should it be reinstated?

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Speaker 3: Well, look, I don't know. That's a federal body and

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Speaker 3: it had a lot of question marks over whether it

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Speaker 3: was actually making any difference or not. So the federal

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Speaker 3: government I've noted recently, have said, look, well, we will

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Speaker 3: look at all of the mechanisms that might be appropriate.

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Speaker 3: I think the immediate action of getting a police involved

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Speaker 3: doing the audits, and of course, just from a Labor

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Speaker 3: Party perspective, because that union is affiliated to the Labor Party,

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Speaker 3: making sure that that construction division is suspended from membership

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Speaker 3: is really important just to keep the government entirely separate

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Speaker 3: from this big question mark. But it's now appeared. I

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Speaker 3: would like to say, though, let's just remember that construction

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Speaker 3: is one of the most dangerous jobs that we have

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Speaker 3: in Australia. It has one of the highest levels of

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Speaker 3: injury and even death, and we need to make sure

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Speaker 3: that these workplaces are safe. And I understand why people

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Speaker 3: choose to unionize, why they want to have a worker's

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Speaker 3: representative who's making sure that they're safe. So this should

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Speaker 3: not be about saying and you're certainly not suggesting that,

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Speaker 3: but my view is this should not be about there

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Speaker 3: being a more general problem with the idea of unions.

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Speaker 3: Unions play an incredibly important role in Australian society, but

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Speaker 3: as soon as you hear about this kind of behavior,

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Speaker 3: you do need to act because it brings everybody down

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Speaker 3: as well as causing problems on that work site.

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Speaker 1: I don't disagree with anything you've just said, and the

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Speaker 1: CFMU here in essay says there's no evidence of any

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Speaker 1: criminal activity in South Australia. What does this mean for

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Speaker 1: union fees though, and indeed union related super Now with

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Speaker 1: the CFMU.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think everyone who has their super coverage and

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Speaker 3: has this super invested should not think that there are

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Speaker 3: any challenges. I know there's been some questions about an

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Speaker 3: organization that's based in Victoria that does the redundancy securements

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Speaker 3: that sort of secures people against being redundant suddenly because

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Speaker 3: a builder goes broke. There were some question marks raised

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Speaker 3: about the investments that they were making, but I understand

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Speaker 3: that that organization was equally had master builders on it

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Speaker 3: as well, had industry on it as well. So I

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Speaker 3: think what we need obviously, we're in a period where

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Speaker 3: we're all a bit shocked. We've heard things, we're not

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Speaker 3: sure how real they are, and we want to make

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Speaker 3: sure that governments are responding. What we now need is

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Speaker 3: a little period of time to allow the people who

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Speaker 3: have supposed to do this investigation to do them and

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Speaker 3: find out if there's evidence. Because it's very easy to

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Speaker 3: start to look everywhere and think that things are chaotic

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Speaker 3: or things are problematic everywhere without actually knowing the fact.

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Speaker 3: So I think getting the Police commissioner having his investigation

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Speaker 3: is going to be incredibly useful because if there's one

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Speaker 3: thing we can be sure if the police will do

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Speaker 3: a thorough job okay, and that will give us a

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Speaker 3: lot of assurance.

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Speaker 1: I think as a state, I suppose you'll tell me

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Speaker 1: the ordit the treasury did is undertaking into construction projects.

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Speaker 1: We'll give us the answer here. But is the government

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Speaker 1: concern that projects have been artificially inflated?

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Speaker 3: Well, we haven't had that experience, so obviously when we

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Speaker 3: go out to contract as a government, So this isn't

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Speaker 3: for the private contract.

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Speaker 1: This is just the.

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Speaker 3: Government contracts, we say, a pretty hard game as a

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Speaker 3: government to make sure that we're getting good price but

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Speaker 3: also good outcomes. So we have things like apprenticeships, numbers

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Speaker 3: being built in diversity where possible. We haven't recycled materials,

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Speaker 3: so we have a whole procurement process. And let's not

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Speaker 3: forget we do have what we call hygiene organizations in government.

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Speaker 3: We have the Ombudsman, we have the Eye Ka, So

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Speaker 3: if people have any concerns they can always raise them,

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Speaker 3: if not through their managers and that structure, they can

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Speaker 3: always raise them with those organizations to make sure that

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Speaker 3: things are being done appropriately. So, as I say, there's

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Speaker 3: no reason to think there's no evidence in front of

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Speaker 3: us that there has been a problem. But when you

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Speaker 3: see something happening interstate and it is of such a

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Speaker 3: serious level of allegation, it would be foolish trust to go, oh, no,

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Speaker 3: we're fine, we're South Australia. Everything's better here, even though

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Speaker 3: it often is better here. So let's do this properly,

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Speaker 3: get the police involved, make sure that the government contracts

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Speaker 3: have been had another goes through to ensure that they

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Speaker 3: have been done appropriately, and see whether we're get any

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Speaker 3: evidence that requires further action, And if there is further

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Speaker 3: action needed, you can bet the bottom dollar that Peter

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Speaker 3: Malon ask Us will do it because the very active.

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Speaker 1: Premiere okay warning signs being ignored, says Rebecca Pickering, that

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Speaker 1: claims people forced to become union members, claims that contractors

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Speaker 1: forced off sites if they're not union members. These things

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Speaker 1: are illegal, and I think given the nature of the

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Speaker 1: allegations things like that happening here, I mean that's coercion

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Speaker 1: for a start. If those claims are correct. Where there's smoke,

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Speaker 1: there's surely fire, isn't there.

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Speaker 3: Well, where there's smoke, it's certainly worth having a look

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Speaker 3: to see if there's fire at the very least, right, So,

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Speaker 3: I and those I had not heard those from Rebecca previously,

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Speaker 3: but then you know, she wouldn't necessarily come straight to

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Speaker 3: me with those kinds of allegations, but they are new

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Speaker 3: to me. My hope and expectation is that anyone who's

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Speaker 3: experienced that, or the peak body that's representing people will

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Speaker 3: have gone to the police, will have gone to the ombudsman,

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Speaker 3: will have raised these concerns in the appropriate mechanisms. Safe

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Speaker 3: work essay for example, Now, if they haven't. Then this

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Speaker 3: is now the opportunity to come out and provide some

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Speaker 3: evidence of what's gone wrong. But we need to hear

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Speaker 3: about it. We need to make sure people feel safe

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Speaker 3: making those allegations as long as they're able to substantiate them,

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Speaker 3: and then we can act. So even though it's been

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Speaker 3: a very stormy time, and I imagine that there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of construction workers who are feeling pretty under pressure

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Speaker 3: at the moment that people might be looking at them

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Speaker 3: differently because of the allegations, particularly from Victoria. But let's

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Speaker 3: use this now that it's come to the surface to

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Speaker 3: make sure that we are doing the most thorough job

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Speaker 3: possible in South Australia and hear from everybody who's got

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Speaker 3: a story to tell and see the evidence that they're

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Speaker 3: able to produce, and then we can take some action

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Speaker 3: if it's needed.

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Speaker 1: Would you like contractors or anyone who's been coerced into

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Speaker 1: anything by the CEAF MEU to come forward. Do you

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Speaker 1: think they'd be brave enough to come forward?

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Speaker 3: Well, I would hope that they would be, and I haven't.

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Speaker 3: I don't know exactly the process that a Police Commissioners

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Speaker 3: investigation undertakes, but I'm expecting that they are wanting to

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Speaker 3: hear from witnesses, so that's one opportunity. Now, of course

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Speaker 3: you've got Civil Contractors Federation, that's a peak body. They

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Speaker 3: are able to also act as a kind of intermediary

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Speaker 3: to help guide who should be talked to, what evidence

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Speaker 3: they have available. So all of this, I think is

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Speaker 3: a useful opportunity for us to get it out. If

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Speaker 3: there is anything, there is evidence, get it all out

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Speaker 3: so that we can collectively have a good look at it,

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Speaker 3: know if it's true or not true, and if we

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Speaker 3: need to act act.

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Speaker 1: Have you got a timeline for the audit or the

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Speaker 1: Police commissioners inquiry?

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Speaker 3: No, I don't have a set timeline for either of them.

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Speaker 3: I spoke to Tom Putsntonis in the last couple of

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Speaker 3: days as the Minister for Infrastructure and he has asked

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Speaker 3: that this be done or directed that this be done

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Speaker 3: as quickly as possible, so I would imagine that won't

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Speaker 3: take very many weeks. I'm very respectful of the police

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Speaker 3: taking the time that they require. Grant Stephens is an

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Speaker 3: excellent commissioner and I'm sure he'll be speaking in public

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Speaker 3: at some point to explain where they've.

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Speaker 1: Got to with that, But you'd expect it to be months,

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Speaker 1: not in way into next year, not a year's time

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Speaker 1: for instance.

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Speaker 3: Well that's exactly what I would like to think, yes,

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Speaker 3: but I'm not speaking on behalf of the police commissioner

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Speaker 3: some way too respectful of police processes for that. But

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Speaker 3: I would expect that they would want to do this quickly,

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Speaker 3: not least because, as I say, there'll be people working

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Speaker 3: on construction sites who've done nothing wrong who now feel

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Speaker 3: like they've got a cloud over them. So the faster

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Speaker 3: we can get this done, the better it is for everybody.

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Speaker 1: All Right, Susan close, appreciate your time.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, lovely to talk to you. Thank you,