WEBVTT - Is Barnaby at home in One Nation?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven Am. Barnaby

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<v Speaker 1>Joyce has always been considered a political maverick, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>this status as a bit of an outsider that's allowed

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<v Speaker 1>him to weather numerous political scandals during his two decades

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<v Speaker 1>in parliament. But now he says he's leaving the National Party,

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<v Speaker 1>and as it comes to light that he's been speaking

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<v Speaker 1>with Pauline Hanson, there's talk he may jump across to

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<v Speaker 1>one nation. So how out of place would Barnaby Joyce

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<v Speaker 1>be in Pauline Hanson's party. Today journalist and founder of

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<v Speaker 1>Rampart News Joe Aston on whether this is the end

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<v Speaker 1>of Barnaby's turbulent career in politics or the start of

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<v Speaker 1>a new chapter. It's Saturday, October twenty five, Joe. On Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 1>Barnaby Joyce gave a frankly bizarre press conference in Tamworth.

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<v Speaker 1>Me through what he had to say.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, I don't think he expected his talks

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<v Speaker 2>with Pauline Hansen to become public when they did, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's sort of put him in an awkward situation.

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<v Speaker 3>It completely blew my weekend out of the water. It

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<v Speaker 3>made things incredibly awkward and I just thought, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>But ultimately there he was trying to explain how he

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<v Speaker 2>was such a loyal guy that he was going to

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<v Speaker 2>not run again in his seat of New England.

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<v Speaker 3>This is a really hard decision that I made, and

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<v Speaker 3>I thought of it over a very long period of

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<v Speaker 3>time as things got sort of worse, worse and worse,

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<v Speaker 3>to be honest, and now I've made it. There's nothing

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<v Speaker 3>that's changed in the last couple of days.

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<v Speaker 2>That he was going to not quit the Nationals and

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<v Speaker 2>remain in Parliament as a Nationals MP, but not attend

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<v Speaker 2>party room meetings because his relationships had broken down so

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<v Speaker 2>badly with his colleagues.

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<v Speaker 3>Look, I look, I just it's been a pretty traumatic issue.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm still basically a member of the National Party. I

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<v Speaker 3>have not joined another party, but I think that's for

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<v Speaker 3>me to consider over time, and you can't.

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<v Speaker 2>And then what was to happen subsequent to the next

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<v Speaker 2>election was all something that he would like to remain

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<v Speaker 2>a mystery.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not a member of one nation. I have not

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<v Speaker 3>asked for a membership form. I'm still a member of

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<v Speaker 3>the National Party, you know. But that's I'm being as

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<v Speaker 3>honest as I can so I don't talk in riddles

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<v Speaker 3>to you.

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<v Speaker 2>So, as you can imagine, there are many many questions

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<v Speaker 2>that Barnaby faced in relation to all of those ambiguities

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<v Speaker 2>that made it difficult for his fancy his self narrative

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<v Speaker 2>to survive.

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<v Speaker 1>He said that his relationship with the current party leadership

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<v Speaker 1>had like a sadness in some marriage is broken down.

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<v Speaker 3>David mentioned a generational change of the last election. That's

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<v Speaker 3>the reason that he was moving on from me. Generational.

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<v Speaker 3>If you my partner, and you came home one night

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<v Speaker 3>and said, look for reasons of generational change, I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think this relationship's going well, you'd think that was pretty

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<v Speaker 3>much it. And if they said, well we don't want

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<v Speaker 3>you to go out and campaign anywhere, that's like saying, well,

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<v Speaker 3>I also don't want you to go to any parties

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<v Speaker 3>with me or be seen in public with me.

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<v Speaker 1>So exactly how bad have things gotten in that party room?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's been a dysfunctional party room for a long time.

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<v Speaker 2>The terminal government was when Barnaby Joyce had to resign

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<v Speaker 2>as Deputy Prime Minister over his extramarital affair with one

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<v Speaker 2>of his staff who's now his partner. So that's when

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<v Speaker 2>Michael McCormack became Deputy Prime Minister, and of course Barnaby

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<v Speaker 2>then sat on the back bench undermining Michael McCormack and

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<v Speaker 2>then tore him down as leader and replaced him, and

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<v Speaker 2>then he lost the leadership.

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<v Speaker 4>To David Little Proud.

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<v Speaker 2>And has been sitting on the back bench doing undermining again,

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<v Speaker 2>and Michael McCormack's been doing a bit of his own.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's almost like twelve factions in the National Party Room,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, one faction for each person. Barnaby would like

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<v Speaker 2>us to believe that his relationship with the National Party

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<v Speaker 2>and with the leader, David Little Proud, has broken down

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<v Speaker 2>irreparably like a marriage. But in actuality, all that's happened

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<v Speaker 2>is that the National Party room doesn't want Barnaby Joyce

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<v Speaker 2>to be its leader now or ever, and to him that's.

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<v Speaker 4>The same thing.

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<v Speaker 2>A normal person would understand that that's the position, sit

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<v Speaker 2>on the back bench, be a member of the team

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<v Speaker 2>and accept that they can't be the leader. But for Barnaby,

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<v Speaker 2>any relationship in which he is not the bright shining

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<v Speaker 2>star is irreparably broken.

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<v Speaker 1>So it came out that Barnaby and Polint Hanson had

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<v Speaker 1>been talking behind the scenes for some time, but immediately

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<v Speaker 1>after he gave that press conference, Polin Hanson came out

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<v Speaker 1>and was publicly calling Barnaby to come across to one nation.

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<v Speaker 3>Barnaby, I'll open you, open the doors for you, come

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<v Speaker 3>across one nation.

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<v Speaker 1>What are the chances of that actually happening and would

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<v Speaker 1>it be a good fit.

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<v Speaker 2>I think Barnaby made it clear from the very beginning

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<v Speaker 2>when he was elected to Parliament at the two thousand

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<v Speaker 2>and four election, that the party line and the rules

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<v Speaker 2>of the party system I really need to hear all

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<v Speaker 2>there to him. And so it's not that surprising to

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<v Speaker 2>think that, having been so disloyal to so many different

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<v Speaker 2>iterations of the Liberal and National Party governments and oppositions,

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<v Speaker 2>that he would think twice about moving to another party.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, he battled one Nation over the years

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<v Speaker 2>in elections. But really Barnaby is one of the early

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<v Speaker 2>populists two thousand and four we didn't really use that expression,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, Barnaby's views on the world are very

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<v Speaker 2>similar to Paul and Hanson's, Clive Palmer's, and without drawing

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<v Speaker 2>too long ago, Nigel Farage and Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 4>So why wouldn't Barnaby Joyce go to One Nation. I

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<v Speaker 4>think it'd be a perfect fit.

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<v Speaker 3>I actually did ring her last night, I said on

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<v Speaker 3>the front set because I thought, seeing they're talking about us,

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<v Speaker 3>all of us will speak to each other rather than

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<v Speaker 3>speak through the media.

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<v Speaker 4>Said good eight.

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<v Speaker 3>Nothing is locked in, nothing is you know, and I've

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<v Speaker 3>gone from.

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<v Speaker 1>Even How would you describe their relationship betwe between Barnaby

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<v Speaker 1>and Pauline though over the years. Would it be a

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<v Speaker 1>perfect fit in terms of both of those egos being

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<v Speaker 1>in the same room at the same time.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's a perfect fit for those of us who

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<v Speaker 2>are looking for entertainment and there will be no shortage

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<v Speaker 2>of that. Then Pauline Hanson, much like Clive Palmer, has

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<v Speaker 2>fallen out with every counterparty they've ever had in politics.

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<v Speaker 2>David Oldfield, I mean Clive Palmer was with Jackie Lamby

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<v Speaker 2>and so on and so forth. There is no reason

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<v Speaker 2>to expect that the relationship between Pauline Hanson and Barnaby

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<v Speaker 2>Joyce would not end up in the same way. Pauline

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<v Speaker 2>Hanson will really, let's face it, be loath who ever

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<v Speaker 2>surrender the leadership of One Nation, but.

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<v Speaker 3>At some stage Hanson's One Nation Party at some stage

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<v Speaker 3>someone else deleted it.

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<v Speaker 4>Totally agree with you, Chris. I'm not that stupid.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not. I haven't got an ego that big mind.

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<v Speaker 2>She's even got her name in the name, the legal

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<v Speaker 2>name of the party. It's legally called Pauline Hanson's One

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<v Speaker 2>Nation and Barnaby. I will be highly amused. And I'm

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<v Speaker 2>also almost hoping that Barnaby falls for the promises of

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<v Speaker 2>Polane Hanson goes to One Nation and finds out that

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<v Speaker 2>an actual factor, she has every intention of being carried

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<v Speaker 2>out of the Senate in a box, and that Barnaby

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<v Speaker 2>Joyce is never going to be the leader.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, that will be fun to watch.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up. Will any others followed Barnaby to the exit? Jae,

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<v Speaker 1>You describe Barnaby Joyce as political novel chock in your view,

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<v Speaker 1>Why has he been so uniquely destructive to the Coalition

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<v Speaker 1>over the past two decades.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's just who he is, just a purely self

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<v Speaker 2>interested political product. He's never had any interest at all,

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<v Speaker 2>even necessarily in winning. It's all about himself, in his

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<v Speaker 2>own aggrandizement and being the center of attention, and.

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<v Speaker 4>That's worked for him.

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<v Speaker 2>Barnaby Joyce has been very successful as a populist on

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<v Speaker 2>the fringes and at the same time be absolutely repugnant

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<v Speaker 2>to your average middle metropolitan voter, and that's why they've

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<v Speaker 2>had to keep him hidden away in his electorate. Not

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<v Speaker 2>that Peter Dunton had a great much more success than Barnaby,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know the point is, every time Barnaby Joyce

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<v Speaker 2>or Matt Canavan talk about how much they hate net zero,

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<v Speaker 2>your average person in the city thinks that the Coalition

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<v Speaker 2>are a pack of climate change denies.

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<v Speaker 4>And that's because the large part of them are.

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<v Speaker 3>So Whether is the source of this and the head

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<v Speaker 3>of the serpent is net zero? A lunatic policy, complete lunacy.

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<v Speaker 2>That's just hugely toxic for the Liberal Party in the cities,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's why they've lost so many seats. At the

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<v Speaker 2>same time, people do love him in the country. I

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<v Speaker 2>think he's definitely got popularity. He seemed to cut through

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<v Speaker 2>and you know he got this. He's got this brand

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<v Speaker 2>of being no nonsense, which is highly ironic because all

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<v Speaker 2>he speaks is nonsense.

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<v Speaker 1>He's often described as a political maverick. Do you think

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<v Speaker 1>that status and that branding has actually helped him brush

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<v Speaker 1>off all these scandals over the years.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah. Look, it's a really good question. When did it

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<v Speaker 4>go from professional to romantic?

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<v Speaker 3>I think we were closed for a long time before

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<v Speaker 3>there was anything, a long time after other people thought

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<v Speaker 3>it out.

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<v Speaker 2>That's look, he got the first person to have an

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<v Speaker 2>office affair in politics, but it came at a very

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<v Speaker 2>febrile time. Globally, the me too movement was in full light,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was before the Britney Higgins scandal, but there

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<v Speaker 2>was already a real feeling in Australia that people were

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<v Speaker 2>fed up with the way politicians behaved in Canberra. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>not that Barnaby's really reformed his way. As we all know,

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<v Speaker 2>he was found gibbering frustrate on the footpath one sitting

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<v Speaker 2>night earlier this year.

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<v Speaker 4>The brief video appears to show the front Beat.

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<v Speaker 3>You're laying beside a plant box swearing into his phone.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, wouldn't have sunk a lesser politician. To be fair

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<v Speaker 2>to him, he does break the mold a bit. And

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<v Speaker 2>the thing is Barnaby has no shame, and he doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>really have any consistent views on anything, and he has

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<v Speaker 2>no serious solutions for policy problems. So therefore it's very

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<v Speaker 2>hard to hurt it politically and in many respects. That

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<v Speaker 2>describes Donald Trump and Nigel Farage and others who have

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<v Speaker 2>been successful. Now, obviously no one is suggesting that Barnaby

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<v Speaker 2>Joyce could ever lead Australia. And the difference, of course

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<v Speaker 2>in Australia, as the right wing of the National Party

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<v Speaker 2>and the hard right wing of the Liberal Party continue

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<v Speaker 2>to misunderstand, is Australia is a compulsory voting preferential system.

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<v Speaker 2>You win elections from the middle, and that is completely

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<v Speaker 2>different to the US and the UK, which are voluntary

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<v Speaker 2>voting systems where you win the elections by getting people

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<v Speaker 2>to vote by energizing voters with the most polarizing views.

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<v Speaker 2>So this dreamland that Barnaby Joyce and others of his

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<v Speaker 2>ilk live in where they watch Sky News and believes

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<v Speaker 2>that being more conservative is the answer for the Liberal

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<v Speaker 2>Party in the National Party is going to lead them

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<v Speaker 2>to shrink even further.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, I don't know how badly they.

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<v Speaker 2>Want to lose, but I don't know who the last

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<v Speaker 2>person will be standing when they turn off the lights.

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<v Speaker 1>Probably Barnaby. He's announced that he'll quit the party and

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<v Speaker 1>not recontest the next election. What's the reaction being in

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<v Speaker 1>the broader coalition to his announcement.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, look, everyone has to be careful what they say,

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<v Speaker 2>right because Barnaby will change his mind. Barnabill come back.

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<v Speaker 2>The shifting sands and fashions and allegiance has changed. So

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<v Speaker 2>you don't want to be stapled to what you've said

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<v Speaker 2>about Barnaby on the record. But certainly behind closed doors

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<v Speaker 2>there are many Liberal MPs who would be very happy

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<v Speaker 2>to see the back of him. On the other hand,

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<v Speaker 2>the National Party quite understandably fought very effectively a national

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<v Speaker 2>campaign to win the seats that they won and having

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<v Speaker 2>already lost, you center price to lose Barnaby Joyce. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>they're not a huge party room. It's a really big

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<v Speaker 2>loss to lose two MPs in quick succession. I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>saying that it's a big loss to lose those two individuals,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's a big loss to lose those seats. And

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<v Speaker 2>you know, as been discovered time and again, once an

0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:22.400
<v Speaker 2>independent holds a seat, it's very hard to get you back.

0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:22.640
<v Speaker 3>Now.

0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:24.640
<v Speaker 2>Barnaby of course is not going to run again in

0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:25.960
<v Speaker 2>that seat, so he says today.

0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.440
<v Speaker 4>But you know, it's then again a wide open contest.

0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:30.240
<v Speaker 2>Will the Nats be able to win that seat next

0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:32.560
<v Speaker 2>time or will some independent come out of nowhere and

0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:34.440
<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden it's a loss.

0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:37.800
<v Speaker 1>What does it all say about the state of leadership

0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:41.319
<v Speaker 1>inside the Nationals under David Little Prowd, Well.

0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.800
<v Speaker 2>I look, in some respects you almost have to have

0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:47.080
<v Speaker 2>some sympathy for Barnaby's position. It wouldn't be the most

0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.080
<v Speaker 2>inspiring flag to follow, would it. David Little Proud is

0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:53.000
<v Speaker 2>a bit of a bag of hammers, and he's certainly

0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.600
<v Speaker 2>know John Anderson, and he's certainly know Tim Fisher. But

0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.240
<v Speaker 2>that's sort of the quality of politics in general. The

0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:01.559
<v Speaker 2>leaders of today. They are not like the leaders of yesterday.

0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:04.240
<v Speaker 2>And maybe everyone says that when they're old, how good

0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:07.959
<v Speaker 2>with the good old days? But I am constantly flabbergasted

0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:12.920
<v Speaker 2>at the just abysmal quality of the political class in

0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:13.800
<v Speaker 2>Australia today.

0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:18.680
<v Speaker 1>Could Barnaby's potential defection to one nation trigger others to follow?

0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:21.920
<v Speaker 2>I think so yeah, And I think that's the real

0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:25.680
<v Speaker 2>threat here. There's no real loss, you know, losing Barnaby

0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.560
<v Speaker 2>Joyce in fact, is a victory. The real risk here

0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:32.920
<v Speaker 2>is contagion where Barnaby also takes you know, Matt Canavan,

0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:34.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, in a couple of other MPs and all

0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.840
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden you got five people jump over. The

0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.000
<v Speaker 2>National Party loses thirty or forty percent of its party

0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.400
<v Speaker 2>room in one hit. That is the real risk here.

0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:48.200
<v Speaker 2>Barnaby talks about a marriage that is a reparably broken down.

0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.520
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you the only marriage that's actually a reparably

0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:52.640
<v Speaker 2>broken down here is the marriage between the Liberal Party

0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:55.240
<v Speaker 2>and the National Party. And when the National Party after

0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:58.680
<v Speaker 2>the election in May had their tantrum and said we're

0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.319
<v Speaker 2>not going to stay in the coalition, the biggest mistake

0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:05.000
<v Speaker 2>certainly made was not to stand down and wave goodbye

0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:08.280
<v Speaker 2>and say thanks for coming. Frankly, the Liberal Party would

0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:11.560
<v Speaker 2>be better off as a standalone party with its own

0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.880
<v Speaker 2>policies that have peeled a middle Australia, and they could

0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:16.920
<v Speaker 2>figure out at a later point whether or not they

0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:18.880
<v Speaker 2>wish to govern with the National Party. I mean, it's

0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.240
<v Speaker 2>just the death spiral that they're in with the National

0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:26.400
<v Speaker 2>Party strapped to them and denying any need for climate action.

0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:31.240
<v Speaker 2>That's the existential problem, not just for the Liberal Party

0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.280
<v Speaker 2>but for Australia, because regardless of whether you a Liberal

0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.040
<v Speaker 2>or a Labor supporter, what Australia needs is a strong

0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:40.480
<v Speaker 2>two party system. It is not good for Australia for

0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:44.200
<v Speaker 2>the Labor Party or for any party to be completely dominant.

0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:46.040
<v Speaker 4>That's the one that I really worry about.

0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, Joe, it's going to be interesting to watch. Thank

0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:51.640
<v Speaker 1>you so much for your insights.

0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:54.120
<v Speaker 4>On coming on the show. My Pleasure. Thanks JN.

0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:06.480
<v Speaker 1>Seven Am is a daily show from Solstice Media. It's

0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:11.320
<v Speaker 1>made by Atticus Bastow, Chris Dngate, Ruby Jones, Sarah mcveee,

0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:15.440
<v Speaker 1>Travis Evans and Zulton Fetcho. Our theme music is by

0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:19.400
<v Speaker 1>Ned Beckley and Josh Hoagan of Envelope Portio. I'm Daniel

0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:22.880
<v Speaker 1>James and tomorrow we'll be spotlighting an episode on China's

0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:26.080
<v Speaker 1>long game on critical minerals domination and the old pile

0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:30.280
<v Speaker 1>of mining waste of Western Australia which could appended See

0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:30.600
<v Speaker 1>you then,