1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: We'd like to acknowledge that traditional custodians of the land 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: on which this podcast was produced, the Galliger people of 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: the Orination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present. 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: This episode contains discussions of sexual assault. If this raises 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: any issues for you, support is available through the links 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: and phone numbers in the show notes. 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 2: Today we're in Somalia. It's two thousand and eight, and 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 2: after the country's brutal long time dictator was overthrown seventeen 9 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 2: years ago, a bloody civil war has raged on, with 10 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 2: so many groups vying for control, the emergence of extremist 11 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 2: groups like Auschebab, and a surge in piracy. It's a 12 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 2: very dangerous place to be, but for photojournalist Nigel Brennan 13 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: is exactly where he feels he needs to be. He's 14 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 2: here to show the world the unfolding humanitarian crisis. The 15 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 2: plan is to stay for seven days, but on the 16 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 2: fourth day plan changes dramatically. Nigel and his colleague and 17 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 2: Mandolinhaut are dragged out of their vehicle at gunpoint by 18 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 2: masked men who plan to keep them hostage. There are 19 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 2: only two ways out of this. Either a three million 20 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 2: dollar ransom from a government whose policy is not to 21 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 2: pay or escape from a lockdown house guarded by masked 22 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 2: men clutching AK forty seven's in the middle of one 23 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 2: of the world's most dangerous countries. I'm Att Middleton. This 24 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: is head Game Today, the ultimate lesson in resilience, strength 25 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 2: and survival. Nigel Brennan, great to have you on my podcast. 26 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 2: Thanks for coming. Now, you're a photo journalist. What do 27 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:49,919 Speaker 2: you do on a day. 28 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 3: To day A fado journalist obviously someone that works in 29 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 3: the media. I sort of started out in regional newspapers 30 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 3: and then went into freelance. So I guess as a 31 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 3: freelance phato let's trying to cover stories that I thought 32 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 3: were important and wanted to, I guess share with the 33 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 3: wider world of what was going on in particularly in 34 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 3: countries overseas. 35 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 2: You turned this hobby into a career and then you 36 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: find yourself being called to go to Somalia. Take me 37 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 2: back to that day when someone, when whoever, your boss, 38 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: whoever it was, said to you, right, you're going too smiley. 39 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 2: How did you feel, what was the job role? And 40 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 2: did you take it straight away? 41 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 3: So I got a phone call from Amanda who at 42 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 3: that stage was working for Presstvay in Iran. So she said, look, 43 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:40,959 Speaker 3: I'm thinking about doing a trip into Kenya, Ethiopia and Somalia. 44 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 3: Would you be interested in coming along? And for me 45 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 3: it was I guess that that first thing for me 46 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 3: was like new Obviously Kenya and Ethiopia fell yourself. Somali 47 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 3: was a different kettle of fish. But I also had 48 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 3: that thing of like I'd wanted to go into war 49 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 3: zone or a conflict area, like a country that was 50 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 3: dangerous and photograph and tell stories. And I guess when 51 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 3: Aman sort of put that to me, it was just like, well, 52 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 3: am I going to do this? 53 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 4: Or am I just going to be a dramer? 54 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 2: And I thought, well, you feel like you had to 55 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:19,119 Speaker 2: earn your stripes. 56 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 3: I've been trying to get into Afghanistan, and I think 57 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 3: as a freelancer was incredibly difficult to try and get 58 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 3: em bettered and those sorts of things. 59 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 2: And then probably it's probably safer to go into Afghanistan, 60 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 2: absolutely with the top cover that you'd have, yes, then 61 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 2: it would be to Somalia. Well I can tell you 62 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 2: that because I've been to both. But I mean hindsight, 63 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 2: hindsight is a great thing, but probably probably a lot 64 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 2: better going into Afghanistan because going into Somalia sort of 65 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 2: just as a freelancer, Oh, it takes some balls. 66 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 4: It does take some balls. 67 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 3: Look, I think in hindsight as well, you know, looking back, 68 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 3: and it was like probably a little bit grain, a 69 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 3: little bit naive, because I think at that stage Somali 70 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 3: was the third most dangerous country in the world. As 71 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 3: you said, like Afghanistan, you had US forces and UK 72 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 3: forces and you basically had people there that could help. 73 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 3: In Somalia it was there was no like you had 74 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 3: eight organizations, but there was absolutely no white or Western 75 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 3: personnel there. So it was an incredible risk to take, 76 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 3: you know. And the plan was a seven day sort 77 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 3: of jaunt in and out because we knew after seven 78 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 3: days it would be too risky. 79 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 2: Seven days in total without the three countries, or seven 80 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 2: days only for. 81 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 4: Smiling, seven days only for Somalia's. 82 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,239 Speaker 2: Still quite long. Yeah, after twenty four to forty eight hours, 83 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 2: people start sniffing. 84 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 3: Around absolutely, And look, I guess as well, as a journalist, 85 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 3: you know, you work out who your fix is going 86 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 3: to be in country. And we had someone recommended who 87 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 3: was also working with National geographic journals that were in 88 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 3: the country at the same time, and we hired security. 89 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 3: We had an interpret to those sorts of things. Again, 90 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 3: probably not enough security, but as I said, as freelancers, 91 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 3: you know, that's all we could afford was a certain 92 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 3: amount of security. And there's also that ethical thing I 93 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 3: think for journalists too, like driving around in cars and 94 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 3: more torn eras, do you want to have weapons in 95 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 3: your vehicle? Like you know, you're meant to be neutral 96 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 3: and having a gun in your car is well, hang on, 97 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 3: you're not really neutral anymore, you're taking aside. 98 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 2: So so you start off where you start off in Kenya. 99 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 3: Start off in Kenya. So in n Airabi organized visas 100 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 3: to get into Sonario. So I actually have to forge document. 101 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 3: So my brother's best mate had a I guess it 102 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 3: was a publication in Brisbane magazine. So I basically ripped 103 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 3: his logo off and made a letter up and signed 104 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 3: it under Carl's name and gave that to the Somalian 105 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 3: embassy and got the visa and then went flew from 106 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,239 Speaker 3: Nairobi into Moga Disher. I'm one of the dodgiest planes 107 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 3: I've ever been, Like, I'm surprised it actually took off 108 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 3: and landed. Oh yeah, I like seats sort of going 109 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 3: back and forwards, and the chickens and goats and it's 110 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 3: just like what is this. I think people might have 111 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 3: even been smoking on the plane, which you know, I 112 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 3: can remember sitting on the plane and there was an 113 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 3: Italian aid worker who was going through to Somali land 114 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 3: and he said, what are you two doing here? And 115 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 3: we're like, we're going to Mogadisha and he's like serious, 116 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 3: and so yeah, we're journalists and he's like okay. He said, 117 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 3: you know, your head's worth a million dollars that's not 118 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 3: attached to your body. And I think that's probably the 119 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 3: you know, I knew Mogadishu was going to be dangerous, 120 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 3: and I knew there was potential for kidnap, but I 121 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 3: never thought that I would end up being kidnapped in 122 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 3: a country. But I guess that's probably where, you know, 123 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 3: things start to pucker up a little bit and it's 124 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 3: just like, okay, this is you know, we're flying into 125 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 3: sort of I guess, alien territory. And it wasn't until 126 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,040 Speaker 3: we started descend into Mogadishu and you're looking out the 127 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 3: window and you can see basically just whatever a decade's 128 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 3: worth of internal conflict and you know, buildings that were 129 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 3: just decimated, and Mogadishu, which they said was the Paris 130 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 3: of Africa, you know, getting to eventually landing at Mogadishu 131 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 3: Airport and getting off the plane and getting into the 132 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 3: carousel and just saying it was complete pandemonium and mayhem, 133 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 3: and you know there's security there that are beating people 134 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 3: with sticks to get them away from the luggage carousel. 135 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 2: And a bit of a reality check. 136 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 4: Oh it was. 137 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 3: It was like I felt like a complete alien. It 138 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 3: was just like I should not be. 139 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 2: Here this this Oh as soon as you landed, you 140 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 2: thought it wasn't. 141 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 4: I just I felt completely out. 142 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 2: Of my comfort zone. What are you hoping to capture? 143 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 2: You know, why did you go there in the first place? 144 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 2: What was there? What was the task or what was 145 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 2: the mission? 146 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 3: I think for Amanda and I, the task was like 147 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 3: the humanitarian crisis that was going on. There was a 148 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 3: famine that was about to hit the country again, and 149 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 3: for us, we wanted to try and capture some of 150 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 3: the the fighting between al Chabob and the African Union Forces. 151 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 3: So I guess again, as a green, young journalist. It 152 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 3: was like, you know, I want to get out to 153 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 3: the front lines and capture some of what's going on 154 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 3: to because by that stage, you know, Somali was sort 155 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 3: of a country that was forgotten about, I guess after 156 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 3: black Hawk Down and those sorts of things which everyone's 157 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 3: aware of, it really sort of fell out of the 158 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 3: media cycle, and particularly for us. One of the interesting 159 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 3: stories was how food aid is brought into the country. 160 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 3: So you know, food aid from America and Australia and 161 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 3: Canada is handed over to a third party who basically 162 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 3: has to pay for that food aid, Like he has 163 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 3: to hand over money for it, and he doesn't get 164 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 3: paid until he delivers it to the destination where it's 165 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 3: got to go to. And it's like that's a lot 166 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 3: of risk for one person, and then you've got als 167 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 3: chabob that raiding those sorts of things. So we wanted 168 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 3: to sort of see how, you know, food aid from 169 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 3: western countries is actually dispersed and does it actually get 170 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 3: to where it is and how corrupt is that that 171 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 3: whole sort of experience for for the middleman. 172 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 2: Really, like that was the mission to capture to capture 173 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 2: the year. 174 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, the day we left the day we were actually kidnapped, 175 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 3: we were heading out of Mogadishu. So, you know, everyone 176 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 3: said in Mogadishu had was relatively safe. I think it 177 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,319 Speaker 3: was like eight square blocks around Villa Somalia, which is 178 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 3: where the president palaces and was controlled by African Union forces. 179 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 3: They said outside of that, it's sort of militia run areas. 180 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 3: But the day we were kidnapped, we were traveling to Afkgoya, 181 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 3: which is I think forty k's outside of Mogadishu, and 182 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 3: there were five internally displaced camps there, so I think 183 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 3: there was about seven hundred thousand people that had been 184 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 3: displaced from Mogadisha because of the fighting, living in those 185 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 3: five camps. 186 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 2: So you land, do your security travel with you or 187 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 2: did they meet you at the airport with a fixer? 188 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 2: You by yourself and you've got to meet the security 189 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:53,839 Speaker 2: team and the fixer or you traveling with them. 190 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 3: No, So we meet the security team once we land 191 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 3: in Mogadishu. So we meet Abdi who it becomes our subfixer. 192 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 3: I guess, so he speaks English. We also meet a 193 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 3: driver and our security detail. First impressions, Abdi was like 194 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 3: really nice, great English, felt sort of quite secure. I 195 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 3: guess that, knowing that we had security as well. Again, 196 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 3: I think you know the reality check of As we're 197 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 3: leaving the airport with our bags, there's quite a high 198 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 3: ranking officer from the African Union forces that are in 199 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 3: country and he's like, what are you guys doing here? 200 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 3: Explained to him, you know that we're journalists. And then 201 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 3: we're here for seven days and he gives us a number. 202 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 3: It says, if you get in trouble, give us a call. 203 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, you leave the airport, how many days are you 204 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: in country until you're obviously you get that knock on 205 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 2: the door and your whole world turns upside down. 206 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 3: So we spend the first three days basically connecting with 207 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 3: I guess people, trying to get access to hospitals. 208 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 2: And that's what's about, isn't It's just getting access, talking 209 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 2: with fixers, trying to get interviews with people, and outside 210 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 2: of your control, right, because you've got to rely on 211 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 2: other people to get you into these locations, right. 212 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, So we're completely reliant on a juice who's the 213 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 3: main fixer. We explained to him, what, you know, what 214 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 3: we want to do on the stories that we want 215 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 3: to cover, and you know obviously saying to him, we 216 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 3: want to get out to the front line and sort 217 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 3: of see the fighting between al Shabab and the African 218 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 3: Union forces. He's not a chance, not going to happen. 219 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 3: Where like, we want to go to Bakara Market, which 220 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 3: is a really famous market in Somalia, and they have 221 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 3: a part of that market is a gun market. 222 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 4: Again, he said, that's not going to happen. 223 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 2: And knocking you back. 224 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 3: So that's really frustrating. So we end up, like we 225 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 3: get to a couple of feeding stations where you know 226 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 3: there's thousands of people obviously waiting for food aid that 227 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 3: sort of stuff. I think one of those locations, I 228 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 3: think about half an hour after we leave, there's a 229 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 3: mortar attack. So then we then go to one of 230 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 3: the main hospitals in Mogadish, which you know, by the 231 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 3: standards of western countries is it looks just how can 232 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 3: I explain this, uh, pretty. 233 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 4: Shabby. 234 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, like you know, very limited resources, doctors run off 235 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 3: their feet, you know, lots of flies around, lots of infection, 236 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 3: those sorts of things. 237 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and lack of doors, lack of windows. 238 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and you know you're in a hospital where 239 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 3: there's fighting around and those sorts of things as well. 240 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 3: So yeah, we get we managed to get three days, 241 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 3: get out with African Union forces I think on the 242 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 3: third day, which was interesting as well to spend a 243 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 3: bit of time with them, and you know, I think 244 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,839 Speaker 3: they're probably just as terrified as we are. 245 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 2: And to be fair, knowing the African forces, they're not 246 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 2: the most capable or the best trains trained, and of 247 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 2: everything that they the lack of resources that they have 248 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 2: as well the lack of training. Yes, so there you're 249 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 2: on the back foot already. 250 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, we managed to get three days of 251 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 3: shooting in and you know, I guess trying to create 252 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 3: some stories and aligning some stuff up for the next 253 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 3: four days. And then obviously day four we'd organized with 254 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 3: a juice to travel outside of Mogadishu to Afgoya, to 255 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 3: the smallest IDP camp we wanted to go and visit. 256 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 3: So there was something like five US fifty to sixty 257 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 3: thousand people in that camp. To give you, I guess 258 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 3: an overview, there's no running water, there's no electricity. We'd 259 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 3: heard that during the night Al Shabob were doing raids 260 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 3: into these camps and basically raping women there was a 261 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 3: small I guess hospital in this smaller camp with a 262 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 3: woman that was running it. We wanted to go and 263 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 3: basically photograph her and see what she was doing. So 264 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 3: we'd organized this with a juice the day before he 265 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 3: said because we were leaving, mogad Isshu said, you're going 266 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 3: to need extra security detail because you are now going 267 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,839 Speaker 3: into a complete militia run area. So we'd organized extra 268 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 3: security detail for that day and we'd planned to leave 269 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 3: after the National Geographic guys that were staying in the 270 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 3: hotel with So there were four journalists and you know, 271 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 3: we're split into teams. They were heading past half guys, 272 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 3: so we were leaving after. 273 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 4: Them in the morning. 274 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 3: So, yeah, wake up on the morning of the fourth 275 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 3: day feeling fairly nervous. 276 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 2: And security's bumped up. You're feeling nervous. You're just going 277 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 2: outside of mood issue. You know, there's a you know, 278 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 2: you feel been pre warned. 279 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 3: Well and there's more risk in doing that, and I'm 280 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 3: feeling quite well. It wasn't anxious, so I sort of 281 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 3: it was like my. 282 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 2: Intuition was feeling I was trying to tell me something 283 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 2: went out that airport. I get exactly what you mean, 284 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 2: there's something that you go. 285 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 3: So we're in the hotel waiting for everyone to get ready, 286 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 3: you know, the drivers and security and that sort of stuff, 287 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 3: and I'm like, oh, I think I'm going to have 288 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 3: diarrhea and running to the toilet. 289 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 4: Nothing's coming out. 290 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 3: And for me that was like intuition saying something shit's 291 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 3: about to happen to you. So we jump in the car. 292 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 3: The NATO team have left, so we were always meant 293 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 3: to be this can car behind them. We jump in 294 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 3: our vehicle, we take off. We get to basically the 295 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 3: outskirts of Mogadishu where the Mogadishu University is. You've got 296 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 3: African Union troops that are stationed there. You can see 297 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 3: all the sandbags and guys behind machine guns and those 298 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 3: sorts of things. The car stops and a security detail 299 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 3: that are in the vehicle. Basically we're told pretty much 300 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 3: at that point that they have to leave us and 301 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 3: we now have to travel five kilometers without security detail 302 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 3: until we pick up our next security detail. 303 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 2: Did that not raise alarm bell? 304 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 4: Absolutely do. 305 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 2: So there's there's an inside job going on right there 306 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 2: or something along those way. Yes, because you get your 307 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 2: security detail. The idea is that. 308 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 4: They stay with you. 309 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 2: On the boots on the ground. 310 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 3: Well, it was explained to us that because they were 311 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 3: seen as government forces, they can't travel into a militia 312 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 3: run area, so that they would basically be stationed there. 313 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 3: They would wait until we've come back from the day 314 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 3: and we'd pick them up. So again, like you know, 315 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 3: having done hostile environment training, we say, if the plan changes, 316 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 3: you basically need to stop what you're doing, think about 317 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 3: the consequences, think about the risks, and if it's too risky, 318 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 3: you go home and have a cup of tea. 319 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, red flags basically yeah. Yeah. 320 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 3: So Amanda and I had a really quick conversation. We 321 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 3: were like, you know, we've come all this way, we 322 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 3: really want to get this story. And we made the 323 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 3: decision that we'd punched through. 324 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 2: And is that because you've been getting excuse my friend 325 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 2: shit stories before and you're like, this is the first 326 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 2: meeting one we're going to get. This is the first 327 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 2: one that we're going to Yeah, I think really sink 328 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 2: our teeth into. 329 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 3: For the first three days, it was this sort of 330 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 3: fed stuff that they were sort of I think, look, 331 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 3: I think. 332 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 2: Almost just pleasing you with little little things, you know. 333 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 3: To keep us busy while while a juice was working 334 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 3: with the nat JA guys getting the stuff that we 335 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 3: were sort of hoping or wanting to get as well. 336 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 3: So it's just like, you guys just can have the 337 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 3: scraps off the table. We'll just keep you busy, you know. 338 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 2: So the decision wasn't you were like, let's just go 339 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 2: for it. 340 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 4: We're here now, let's go made a decision. 341 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 3: There's five of us in the car, we leave our 342 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 3: security detail and we basically punched down the road. I'm 343 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 3: mucking around with my camera, basically looking at the images 344 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 3: I've taken from the day before, deleting images slowly, like 345 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 3: so had all the shots from while I was with 346 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 3: the African Union Forces. I can remember hearing Amanda and Abdi, 347 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 3: who was our interpreter, sort of speaking by the stage. 348 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 3: We created quite a good bond with Abdi. He was 349 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 3: good fun, liked to laugh and they were sort of 350 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 3: singing and mucking around. And I can remember looking up 351 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 3: over the driver's shoulder and seeing a car flashing as 352 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 3: lights because we said they told us that we'd obviously 353 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 3: intercept another security detail, and I just presumed that that 354 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 3: was the car that was our security detail didn't really 355 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 3: take much notice, went back to my camera, and then 356 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 3: as we got to that car, we stopped, and then 357 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 3: I sort of looked up and looked over my right 358 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 3: shoulder and just saw a guy fully mask faced with 359 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:04,199 Speaker 3: an AK forty seven literally sort of inches away from 360 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 3: the glass. And then the next thing that you know, aw, 361 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 3: four doors are ripped open. I'm dragged out of the 362 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 3: vehicle driver, the second the guy who's in the in 363 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 3: the front seat with the driver, and then Abdin Amanda 364 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 3: who in the back were all brought around to my 365 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 3: side of the car, pushed face down into the dirt 366 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 3: AK forty seven at the back of the head. Very quickly, 367 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 3: all five of us are bundled into the back seat 368 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 3: of this land cruiser. I've got this really big hostage 369 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 3: taker who's now sitting beside us. So there's six of 370 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 3: us in the back seat. I've got Amanda on my lap. 371 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:38,959 Speaker 3: Two guys jump in the front, one's got a pistol 372 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 3: pointing back, and then two young guys again mask face 373 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 3: at the back who are pointing AK forty seven's at 374 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 3: the back of our heads. 375 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 2: Did you have time to realize what was going on 376 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 2: or before you knew it. He was in the back 377 00:18:58,480 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 2: of the land Cruiser. 378 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 3: Look, I saw him, and then I looked around and 379 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 3: I saw more guys with guns, and it was like, 380 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 3: I think the whole mast face was just like this, 381 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 3: this ain't good. So basically they surrounded the car, doors 382 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 3: all open. Everyone's ripped out, thrown on the ground, yeah, 383 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 3: very quickly, thrown back into the vehicle. And then literally 384 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 3: someone jumps in the driver suit and we take you. Yeah, 385 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 3: and instead of driving down the road, they just go 386 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 3: across country. 387 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 2: So they take you straight off grid. 388 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 3: Like I felt like we're doing one hundred and fifty. 389 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 3: We're probably only doing eighty. But it was rough, Like 390 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 3: I can remember sort of putting my hands up on 391 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 3: the roof to brace because I've got a manda on 392 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 3: me and we're just cross country, you know, driving cross 393 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:37,439 Speaker 3: scrub bush that sort of stuff. 394 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 2: And at this point, is there any sort of signals 395 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 2: that you're trying to give to the others or any 396 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 2: sort of or you just like your head is everywhere. 397 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 2: You don't know what the hell is going on. 398 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 3: Like for me, I sort of describe it like your 399 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 3: brain goes to cotton more, like you can't even think 400 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 3: it's just that. 401 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 2: Goes some mush, doesn't it. 402 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 4: It does. It's like it's not panic, it's just I think, 403 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 4: pure sh you. 404 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 2: Just realizing what's going on. You know it. You can't 405 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 2: your brain can't compute what the hell is going on. 406 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 2: It is like it takes so long before you actually realize, Wow, 407 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 2: I'm in a whole world of pain right now. Yeah, 408 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 2: things are going down here rapidly. 409 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 3: They basically demand everyone's mobile phones. I don't give them 410 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 3: mine because it's it's in the back of my Jane, 411 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 3: so I can't actually get to it. And again, like 412 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 3: trying to work out timeframes is really difficult because the 413 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 3: concept of time just goes, you know, to shit. 414 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 2: Compleat self preservation right now on. 415 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 3: So there's obviously the car in front of us that 416 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 3: we'd stopped for, who's now sort of the lead car. 417 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 4: We're behind that. 418 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 3: After a few minutes we pull up, Amanda's ripped out 419 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 3: out of the car and she's put into the front car. 420 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 3: So then I guess, you know, my fear sort of 421 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 3: goes up several notches because it's like they've just taken 422 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 3: my friend and who's female, and they've separated us, which 423 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 3: is not like I have no control of what's going 424 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 3: on with her. 425 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 2: So you're all completely separated from each other. 426 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 3: And at this stage, like so there's the five of 427 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 3: us that were in the car roil in the backseat. 428 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 3: A man is the only one that's taken out of 429 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 3: the vehicle and put in the lead vehicle. So we're 430 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 3: trying to talk and the guy is saying stop talking, 431 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 3: like they're not actually saying. They just again, we drive 432 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 3: through bush and we're sort of coming into little villages 433 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 3: on dirt roads, and then after the bush and then 434 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 3: into a village, and so they're really trying. 435 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 4: To disorientate you, absolutely disorientatus. 436 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 3: We pull up again and then I'm pulled out of 437 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 3: the vehicle and I'm put into the lead vehicle with Amanda. 438 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 3: And that's the first time I meet one of the 439 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 3: head guys called Ahmed, who speaks absolutely fluent English, introduces himself, 440 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 3: says everything's okay, no need to worry. The commanders basically 441 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:53,959 Speaker 3: want to meet you and see who you are and 442 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 3: understand what you're doing in the country. 443 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 2: Did you believe him? 444 00:21:58,600 --> 00:21:59,959 Speaker 4: Maybe I wanted to believe him. 445 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, because you do. You want to you want to 446 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 2: humanize yourself. Don't you want to there's that hope. That's 447 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 2: when this starts to get. 448 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 3: The first person who didn't have a mask on either, 449 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 3: so it was sort of like I could see his face, 450 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 3: which which was also like terrifying in a way. It's like, 451 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 3: because I don't want to see your face because now 452 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 3: I can identify you, and I think they're the sorts 453 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 3: of thoughts that are just flatting through your head. It's 454 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 3: just like, what are they doing with this? And he said, look, 455 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 3: we're going to take you to a compound. Commanders of 456 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 3: our group are going to they want to meet with you, 457 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 3: want to understand who you are while you're in the country. 458 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 2: Is anyone hysterical? How was? Amanda was like none of us, 459 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 2: all of you were just playing well, staying quiet all 460 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 2: through that journey and just until. 461 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 3: So I think Amanda and I are in the back seat, 462 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 3: we're sort of holding hands, but not hysterical at all. 463 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 3: I think, trying to be calm and just look. I 464 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 3: think also that that initial stage of shock is you 465 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 3: just yeah, you just go. 466 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 2: You go with it, your schedule going to die, yeah, 467 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 2: kick off or you yeah, there's that whole thing. You 468 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 2: don't upset the people that have just you know, now 469 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 2: in control of your life. Basically. Yeah, they decide what 470 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 2: happens to you do, They decide where you go, They 471 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 2: decide whether you live or die. Yep, it's yeah, that 472 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 2: shock is it's almost submissive, I would say, you. 473 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 4: Know it is in a way. Yeah, I think just. 474 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 3: Playing the game with him. And we're then taken to 475 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 3: a compound and it was in a small little village, 476 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 3: you know, with a massive sort of ten twelve high 477 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 3: foot war with metal gates. We drive into there, I'm 478 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 3: taken out of the car, frog marched into. There's a 479 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 3: I guess a low building with three rooms in it. 480 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 3: I'm frog marched into the end room. Amanda asked to 481 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 3: go to the toilet straight away. So she obviously has 482 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,199 Speaker 3: her card from the her camera that has photographs with 483 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 3: the African Union forces on it, so she's trying to 484 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 3: delete that in the toilet. They obviously think she's trying 485 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 3: to hide something. 486 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 2: Why did they catch her doing it? 487 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 3: No, they didn't catch her doing it, but when she 488 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 3: was brought back to the room, within minutes, they come 489 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 3: in and they take her to the room next door. 490 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 3: I can hear her scream as they put well, she 491 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 3: tells me after she comes back, but they put their 492 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 3: hands down her, her boobs and then her hands indoor 493 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 3: pants to say, she's. 494 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 2: Being sexually assaulted at this stage, Wow, and what's happening 495 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 2: to you? 496 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 3: You can hear her screaming, So yeah, pretty terrified. Terrified 497 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 3: because it's like, we'll hang on in the car. You 498 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 3: said everything was okay, this is completely different. 499 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 2: Did you feel a sense of handover because that handover 500 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 2: can that that can that's a method to really disrupt 501 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:46,679 Speaker 2: the individual. 502 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 3: Well, I think when we got to that compound, obviously 503 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 3: saying more guys with more guns. It's just like, okay, 504 00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 3: waiting for us. So there's now more people involved. Put 505 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 3: into that room. Obviously, doors shut again, so you sort 506 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 3: of now in a room by yourself. Amanda was in 507 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 3: there for the first period, you know, for the first 508 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 3: few minutes, and then she was dragged out and then 509 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 3: she's brought back. She's in tears, explains that she's been 510 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 3: sexually assaulted. 511 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 2: They put you back together, Yeah, put us back together. 512 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 2: And are you talking? Are you trying to come up 513 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 2: with a plan or you just you're just trying to 514 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 2: figure out what the hell is going on? 515 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 3: Trying to figure out what the hell is going on, 516 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 3: and then I think, you know, after a short period 517 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 3: of time, it's like, fuck. 518 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 4: We're been kidnapped. 519 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, the penny drops. Why, it's like you've just been 520 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 2: sexually assaulted. The situation has changed. We've been kidnapped. They 521 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 2: think we're someone that we're not. Now we have to 522 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 2: convince them that we're just you know, well just but 523 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 2: just journalists. 524 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 3: You know, during that first few hours of being in 525 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 3: the compound, they come in. They basically want passports and 526 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,479 Speaker 3: want money. Both of us have left our passports at 527 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 3: the at the hotel because there's no point in going 528 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 3: out in the field with your passport. I had one 529 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 3: hundred US dollars on me. I think Amanda had less 530 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 3: than that, but you know, went through my camera bag, 531 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 3: they left all of my cameras, didn't touch any of that. 532 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,719 Speaker 3: But they were just looking for documentation. Obviously asked us 533 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 3: questions of who we were, what we were doing in 534 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 3: the country, So explain, you know, I'm Nigel Brennan, I'm 535 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 3: Australian photojournalist here for seven days. Amanda does the same thing. 536 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 3: She's obviously from Canada. They bring us water, you know, 537 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 3: do you want anything else? And I'm like, yeah, I 538 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 3: want to pack of cigarettes. 539 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 2: Because if they offer as you don't know when that's 540 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 2: going to be your last meal, your last smoke, your 541 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 2: last drink. This is the samious thing. So if they're offering, 542 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 2: always take. 543 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. 544 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 3: So we're in the room, you know, chain smoking, trying 545 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 3: to work out what's going on. A group of men 546 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 3: come in once it's dark and basically I think there 547 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 3: was four of them, So upmed one of the guys 548 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 3: that was involved in the kidnapping, whose face I can't see. 549 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 3: There's an the guy that comes in. He was introduced 550 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 3: to me as Adam. He also speaks English. Another guy 551 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,719 Speaker 3: that was I think he was at the waiting at 552 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 3: the compound, Captain Yahyah was how he was introduced. 553 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 2: Captain Yaya Adam. 554 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, yeah. And it's funny. 555 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 3: As time went on, Amanda and I actually had nicknames 556 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 3: for all of them so that we could talk about 557 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 3: them without without them knowing. But they sit down and they, 558 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 3: you know, obviously, ask us what we're doing, why we're there. 559 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 3: They accuse us of being spies, and we're like, if 560 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,719 Speaker 3: you you know, you guys have got obviously the Internet 561 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,400 Speaker 3: going to Google. Google my name, Google Anda's name, you'll 562 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 3: find all of this information. And then they say, basically, 563 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 3: because you're from Australian Nigel and Amanda, you're from Canada, 564 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 3: because both of your countries are at war against Islam, 565 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 3: we're going to hold you for ransom and we're going 566 00:27:52,680 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 3: to demand money from your governments. 567 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 2: Was that a moment that you thought we were going 568 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 2: to be here for a long time because ransom asking 569 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 2: they go on for coh they can go on for 570 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 2: months and go on for years. Well, I guess you 571 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,120 Speaker 2: think yourself, we're in it for the long haul. 572 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 3: Look to be honest, at that stage, I was probably 573 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 3: thinking this could last for a couple of months, Like, 574 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 3: never did I think it was going to last for 575 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 3: fifteen months. I was having momps, also having like I guess, 576 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 3: you know, thoughts of Daniel Pearl who was beheaded in Pakistan, 577 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 3: those sorts of things. So at that stage they didn't 578 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 3: tell us how much they wanted, but they said we're 579 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 3: going to ask money. We don't want money from your family. 580 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 3: We're only interested in money from your governments. And I 581 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 3: knew that both Australia and Canada as part of the 582 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 3: Five eyes, which is US, UK, Canada, New Zealand and 583 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,959 Speaker 3: Australia will not pay a ransom for one of their 584 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 3: citizens because they believe it basically creates an economy for 585 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 3: that sort of industry, so I explained, And the Australian 586 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 3: government will not pay you one cent. 587 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 4: For my life? 588 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 2: How does that make you feel? 589 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 3: Knowing that I understand why they make that decision because 590 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 3: it does create an. 591 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 4: Economy and money, well it's just money. 592 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 3: But like I guess, does it then put a target 593 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 3: on certain nationalities? Like I guess over the last decade, 594 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 3: you've seen the French and the Germans and European nations 595 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 3: who do pay. And it's not like a kidnapper, you know, 596 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 3: target specific nationalities. They just grab and if they're fortunate enough, yeah, 597 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 3: if they're fortunate enough to have someone from Europe, then 598 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 3: they know that they're going to get money from a government, 599 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 3: even though those governments will say we don't pay. Whereas 600 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 3: you know, you look at what happened in Syria with 601 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 3: ISIS and with the Brits and the Americans that were 602 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 3: obviously kidnapped, and you know, very sadly majority of them 603 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 3: all end up dying as propaganda videos for isis. 604 00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 2: So do you think you would be part of that 605 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 2: city sick? Do you ever think that you were gonna? 606 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 4: Oh? I think absolutely absolutely. 607 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 3: At the start, it was like I said, you know, 608 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 3: thinking about Daniel Pearl, and it's like capturing a Canadian 609 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 3: and Australian whose forces are in Afghanistan and Iraqan places 610 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 3: like that. It is like, it doesn't well, it doesn't 611 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 3: bogue well. And we didn't know who we were dealing 612 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 3: with at that stage, like they said they were the 613 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 3: Somali Mujahadeen, So it's like, have they captured two citizens 614 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 3: from nations that they can make, you know, make examples 615 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 3: out of. But also I think in the back of 616 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 3: my head was the reality of I knew my government 617 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 3: wasn't going to pay for my ransom, that it was 618 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 3: going to fall on my family. 619 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 4: So mum and. 620 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 3: Dad had basically three years earlier sold their family farm 621 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 3: for quite a substantial amount of money. I think it 622 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 3: was about six million dollars, and I knew Amanda's family 623 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 3: had basically no money at all. So the reality was, yes, 624 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 3: they're telling us they want money from the Australian government 625 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 3: and the Canadian government. If they don't get that eventually 626 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 3: they're going to go for the families. So I think 627 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 3: for me it was that moral dilemma of I was 628 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 3: going to destroy my mum and dad's retirement fund and I. 629 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 2: Can retirement full stop their lives. 630 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 4: Yeah. 631 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 3: Absolutely, like my entire family you know, did get caught 632 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 3: up in this whole I guess experience of my kidnapping. 633 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 3: And then there was the ethical question that sort of 634 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,719 Speaker 3: hit me as well during those first few months of 635 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 3: do I want my family to pay a roundsom for me? 636 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 4: Is that ethically okay? 637 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 3: Is that money going to be used for means of 638 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,719 Speaker 3: this group buying more arms and innocent people being killed? 639 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 4: Like great, the white person gets. 640 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 3: His life back and Black Africans end up dying because 641 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 3: of you know, potentially a two million dollar ransom payment 642 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 3: that goes to this group that that they used that 643 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 3: money to continue their their g haad in scenario. 644 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 2: Wow, So how long were you in captivity before your 645 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 2: parents were told? It would have been what days? 646 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 4: Hours? 647 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 2: I think hours? Yeah, so straight away from the Australian embassy. 648 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 3: Well it's interesting too, I think you know, looking back 649 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 3: at were these guys professional, had they done this before? 650 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 3: It was probably not because I think in that first 651 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 3: meeting with the head guys, they said we need the 652 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 3: number for the Australian government, and I was like, call 653 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 3: one three, I don't know, and the only number I 654 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 3: had was Mum and Dad's landline, Like that was the 655 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 3: only number that I knew off the top of my head. 656 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 4: So I gave them that. 657 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:53,239 Speaker 3: Amanda obviously gave them her father's number in Canada, and 658 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 3: I think it was pretty much within the twenty the 659 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 3: first twenty four hours. It was a Sunday night, because 660 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 3: I know my sister was at mum and Dad's having 661 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,959 Speaker 3: dinner with them, which was sort of a family tradition 662 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 3: on a Sunday night, phone rang, my sister's answered it, 663 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 3: and Adam, the guy that was part of that initial 664 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 3: group that entered the you know, the Commander group. He 665 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 3: ended up being the communicated for the for the kidnapping group. 666 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 3: Sister picks up the phone and basically says, I have 667 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 3: your brother Nigel with amandolind out. We're demanding one point 668 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 3: five million dollars each US so three million dollar ransom demand. 669 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 3: If you don't pay within the next twenty four hours, 670 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 3: we'll execute them. 671 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 2: Wow, and here and I hope you're enjoying Nigel's phenomenal story. 672 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 2: I don't often do two part interviews, but this story 673 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 2: is unlike anything I've ever heard before. So join me 674 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 2: next week for the second half and hear what happened next. 675 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to Headgame.