WEBVTT - Hope, panic and a brain tumour 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:06.920 From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:14.400 It's Friday, November fifteenth. Australia must move faster to test 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:19.320 DNA driven treatments and then make genomic personalized medicine part 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.520 of healthcare at every level. That's the plea for a 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:27.520 health revolution from the nation's top scientists, doctors and patients, 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:34.800 revealed today at The Australian dot com dot au. Today 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:38.280 we're launching a big new frontier for our journalism, deep 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:42.560 coverage of health, from the latest research breakthroughs to practical 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:48.160 advice on everything from exercise to menopause, and deeply personal 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:53.960 stories like the one we're about to share. One of 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:58.680 the most inspiring Australians around is Richard Scolier, the cancer 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:02.480 professor who's turned his own brain tumor into a real 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:07.880 time experiment in survival. The Australian's senior journalist, Tanzy Harcourt 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:11.240 has spent the past thirteen years living with a brain 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:15.760 tumor diagnosis of her own, and today we hear how 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.720 patients like Tansy are responding to what they're calling the 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:30.440 Scholiar effect. For the people in Australia, living with brain tumors. 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:32.440 This was massive news. 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:38.000 Professor Richard Scolia has saved thousands from a certain death sentence, 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:42.000 yet he's just been handed his own. The world's leading 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:45.840 melanoma pathologist has incurable brain cancer. 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:51.000 Glioblastoma is a rare and aggressive type of brain tumor 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:56.520 that ravages tissue with devastating efficiency. All new cases are 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:03.360 automatically classified as Grade four, with no exceptions. Richard Scolia 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:06.680 was named joint Australian of the Year for twenty twenty four. 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:12.240 Alongside his friend and colleague, Professor Georgina Long. They've dedicated 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:17.000 their careers to fighting another type of cancer, melanoma. Moving 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:21.359 swiftly past the initial shock of Richard's diagnosis, the pair 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:26.880 channeled their expertise in immunotherapy into a world first treatment regime, 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:32.000 with Scolia as the self described guinea pig. The big 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:36.079 idea was to give immunotherapy before having surgery to remove 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:43.320 the tumor, something that has been shown to work with melanoma. 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:45.400 And so this idea of giving immunotherapy before my tumor 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:49.359 was debolked made total sense to me. So never been 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:53.079 tried before with combination in minotherapy, but for me. It 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:55.120 felt like the right thing to do. Give it a crack, 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:57.880 see if we can make a difference in the work. 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:01.359 I've learned some science that were see if this is 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:02.720 something worth exploring. 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:08.720 Just like a vaccine, immunotherapy uses the body's own defenses 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:13.560 to destroy cancer cells. Scholia is receiving the therapy in 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:18.280 conjunction with conventional cancer treatment, and so far the results 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:22.560 are promising. After a year, Scholia's MRI scans show no 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:26.239 recurrence of the tumor. He's speaking here with Network seven. 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:29.800 I think it's amazing I'm still here, But it could 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:33.200 just be luck that I'm only one patient, and some 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:36.680 patients do survive for a long time in brain cancer. 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:40.960 So ultimately we need a clinical trial that puts patients 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:44.200 into different groups to see if this treatment actually works 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.280 or not. Is it just a fluke that I happen 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:48.720 to be alive, not related to the treatment. 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:54.120 Tanzy Harcourt is a business journalist with The Australian, and 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:58.400 she remembers vividly hearing the news of Richard Schollier's diagnosis. 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.200 When was diagnosed, I had a lot of people contacting 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:06.240 me just because I have a brain tumor. Myself I 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.200 was diagnosed thirteen years ago now, and I don't have 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:12.600 a glioblastoma. I have something that at the time was 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:16.560 called an oligo astrocytoma. People reached out to me because 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:20.520 anyone with a malignant brain tumor faces an uphill battle. 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:26.120 There's been very little developments in finding a qure for 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.880 brain tumors, and he was just so public with what 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.000 he was trying to do, which is something different to 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:33.840 what has been done in the past. 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:37.600 Richard Scolia and his professional partner, Georgina Long are experts 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.840 in melanoma and have pioneered amazing treatments for that kind 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:44.360 of cancer. This was something new to them. How did 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:47.080 they apply the lessons that they've learned in melanoma treatment 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:49.600 to this globlastoma that Richard was facing. 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:52.039 There's a couple of things that they're doing that is 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.840 a little bit different. The first, really significant thing is 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:59.880 that he was treated before his surgery. Now, the reason 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.960 why that is unusual in brain tumors is because most people, 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.120 if they have a brain tumor, they've got pressure on 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:07.800 the brain as a result of that, and so to 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:11.400 reduce the pressure they need a surgery. So the surgery 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:13.679 then is how they diagnose what kind of brain tumor 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:15.960 it is. But it's also taking pressure off the brain, 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:19.000 which can be fatal. So in his case, he had 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.320 a seizure when he was overseas and it wasn't putting 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:24.520 so much pressure on that he needed to be operated 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:28.120 on immediately. He was able to return to Australia and then, 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.720 of course, because he's an expert in that field, they 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.440 were able to come up with a new treatment protocol 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:38.200 for him, give him that first and then have the surgery. 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:42.480 That's an unusual step and that's not something that is 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:45.880 currently in clinical trials in Australia, I think maybe even 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:46.760 anywhere in the world. 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:54.240 He's had a year of no reappearance of his globelastoma. 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:57.720 That is wonderful news for Richard and his family, of course, 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:01.679 but it's caused some mixed feeling among experts and also 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.600 other people who are living with cancer. Can you talk 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.240 a little bit about that. Why is that causing mixed feelings? 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.800 It's causing mixed feelings because or to start with, anyone 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:14.119 that's dealing with the glier blastomer has a very bleak 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:19.520 future under the current treatment protocols. So the idea of 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.359 somebody that is so highly regarded coming up with a 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:26.120 new idea and then being so public about it is 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:30.160 creating an incredible amount of hope in the community, which 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:33.320 is understandable. And the only problem with that, of course, 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:38.920 is that one year doesn't necessarily indicate anything one way 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.280 or another. It could be that this treatment protocol is working, 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:47.359 or it could be he had a really good reception, 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:50.320 which means the surgery went really well. It could be 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:53.960 the radiotherapy, or it might not work at all. It's 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:57.120 actually just too early to tell, and he is clear 0:06:57.160 --> 0:06:59.520 about that in his book. He's clear about the fact 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.400 that it's too early to tell. But every time he 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.200 expresses hope and relief when he has a good result, 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:09.640 and still there's just an outpouring of people that then 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:11.800 want to do that as well for obvious reasons. 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:17.040 Is there an equity issue here too, where people may feel, 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:19.800 if they are suffering something similar to Richard, for example, 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:22.240 that they're not getting the same opportunities that he is, 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.960 and if they are feeling like that, is that valid. 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:27.080 I think that there are a lot of people that 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:30.120 are feeling like that. I've got two neuroncologists and one 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:34.600 of them is also a Richard's neurooncologist, And I know 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:37.760 that there's a lot of people that have been reaching 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:40.520 out to their various specialists saying, we want to do 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:42.800 that treatment, and they've even been reaching out to the 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.680 Melanoma Institute of Australia, who's had to put something up 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:49.200 saying we don't treat brain tumors. So I think that 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.080 people are perhaps feeling a bit panic that they're missing out, 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:55.520 But the truth is that the various professionals need to 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:58.440 have time to try and create a clinical trial that 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:03.160 replicates the work that Richard and Georgina Long have done. 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:05.960 So they're producing a paper themselves and there are I 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:10.760 think multiple processes underway at the moment where various specialists 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:14.000 for neurooncology are trying to create a clinical trial, but 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.240 you can't just kind of jump into it because obviously 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.440 they're very risky and dangerous. And one of the issues 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.200 with any of these things is that you can get 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.440 pressure on the brain as a result of the drugs 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:27.560 that you're taking. So it's not the same as perhaps 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.000 if you had a cancer somewhere else in your body 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:34.760 and it swelled as a result of immunotherapy that wouldn't 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:39.120 necessarily have as diret consequences as if it was inside 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:40.920 the confined space of your skull. 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:49.280 Coming up, what's the balance between fear and hope when 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:52.520 a story as big as Richard's school years comes along. 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:56.319 This is just a taste of The Australian's new foray 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.400 into deep coverage of health. Check it out at the 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:02.760 Australian dot com dot au and we'll be back after 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:19.680 the break. At The Australian, Tansy works for our Business 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:24.200 section as a senior journalist. She grills CEOs and CFOs 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:27.760 about profits and balance sheets and corporate decision making, so 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:32.080 she's very comfortable with charts and graphs, the numbers that 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:35.440 tell us a bigger story that's informed the way she's 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:40.040 approached cancer as a story and as a human experience. 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.360 Look, I think I probably pestered my doctors more than 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:45.960 they would like, because every time I go in for 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:49.240 my six monthly scans, I always have questions. There might 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:51.720 be one trial that's been tried here and something else 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:54.240 that's come up there, and I always like to ask 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:59.040 the statistics are pretty bad, and the treatment protocols haven't 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:01.280 changed all that much either at this point in time. 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:05.920 Right now, the best treatment is a really good brain surgery. 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:11.240 I've had two, a really good resection it's called and radiotherapy. 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:14.600 So there are chemotherapy drugs, but they generally at this 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:18.199 point in time, are more helping in terms of quality 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:22.120 of life rather than extending life. 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:26.920 They talk about the school your effect. 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:28.240 What is that? 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:32.000 That's basically this idea and you alluded to it earlier 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:35.720 that people want to have what he's doing because the 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:39.600 work that he's done in Melanomahi and Georgina. Obviously that's 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:42.080 the reason why they were the Australians of the Year. 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:44.920 This year has been so exciting and everyone thinks, well, 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:49.040 if he's doing it, then it must be right, and 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.280 hopefully he will be right. But it's just too early 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.240 to tell that yet. So I think everyone kind of 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:58.800 hopes and crosses their fingers. But you can't have everyone 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:02.199 jumping into what he's doing at this point in time. 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:05.160 Yeah. So at the same time, here we have this 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:08.680 beacon of hope for many people, and we also have 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:11.520 frustration and maybe a bit of panic. As you said, 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:14.920 how do you think ultimately we'll look back at the 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:18.440 balance of those two things. Is this a moment where 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:22.280 we take a big leap forward or is it a 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:23.560 lot of pain for a lot of people. 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:29.040 My suspicion is that it will be both. I think 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:33.160 immunotherapy has so far proven to be the main area 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:37.840 where there are breakthroughs in cancer treatments, So I think 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:41.160 that hope is important, and I think it's pretty likely 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.360 that he's on the right track. But whether or not 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:46.800 it's going to be soon enough for him or anyone 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:50.520 that's even currently diagnosed, I don't know. The other thing 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.120 that I think is really important to draw attention to 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:55.800 is just the fact that he's done such a good 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:59.800 job of talking about his story that it's raising a 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:03.720 w farness of brain tumors, and that in turn helps 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:07.040 raise money for research into brain tumors because it's quite 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.360 an expensive business. There is that mixture of hope and 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:14.280 possibly disappointment and anxiety for everyone, but hopefully he's going 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:18.280 to nail it first go well. 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:19.520 Thank you for sharing your story. 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:20.320 Thank you. 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:26.080 Tanzy Harcourt is a senior reporter with The Australian. You 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:29.200 can read her story at The Australian dot com dot 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:39.400 a U. Thanks for joining us this week. On the front. 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:42.960 Our team is Kristin Amyot, Tiffany Dimak, Jasper Leek, Lead, 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.920 Sam mcglou, Joshua Burton, Stephanie Coombs and me Claire Harvey.