1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: It's Friday, November fifteenth. Australia must move faster to test 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: DNA driven treatments and then make genomic personalized medicine part 4 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: of healthcare at every level. That's the plea for a 5 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: health revolution from the nation's top scientists, doctors and patients, 6 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: revealed today at The Australian dot com dot au. Today 7 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: we're launching a big new frontier for our journalism, deep 8 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: coverage of health, from the latest research breakthroughs to practical 9 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: advice on everything from exercise to menopause, and deeply personal 10 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: stories like the one we're about to share. One of 11 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: the most inspiring Australians around is Richard Scolier, the cancer 12 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: professor who's turned his own brain tumor into a real 13 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: time experiment in survival. The Australian's senior journalist, Tanzy Harcourt 14 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: has spent the past thirteen years living with a brain 15 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: tumor diagnosis of her own, and today we hear how 16 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: patients like Tansy are responding to what they're calling the 17 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: Scholiar effect. For the people in Australia, living with brain tumors. 18 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: This was massive news. 19 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: Professor Richard Scolia has saved thousands from a certain death sentence, 20 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 2: yet he's just been handed his own. The world's leading 21 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 2: melanoma pathologist has incurable brain cancer. 22 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: Glioblastoma is a rare and aggressive type of brain tumor 23 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: that ravages tissue with devastating efficiency. All new cases are 24 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: automatically classified as Grade four, with no exceptions. Richard Scolia 25 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: was named joint Australian of the Year for twenty twenty four. 26 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: Alongside his friend and colleague, Professor Georgina Long. They've dedicated 27 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: their careers to fighting another type of cancer, melanoma. Moving 28 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 1: swiftly past the initial shock of Richard's diagnosis, the pair 29 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: channeled their expertise in immunotherapy into a world first treatment regime, 30 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: with Scolia as the self described guinea pig. The big 31 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: idea was to give immunotherapy before having surgery to remove 32 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: the tumor, something that has been shown to work with melanoma. 33 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 3: And so this idea of giving immunotherapy before my tumor 34 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 3: was debolked made total sense to me. So never been 35 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 3: tried before with combination in minotherapy, but for me. It 36 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 3: felt like the right thing to do. Give it a crack, 37 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 3: see if we can make a difference in the work. 38 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 3: I've learned some science that were see if this is 39 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 3: something worth exploring. 40 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: Just like a vaccine, immunotherapy uses the body's own defenses 41 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: to destroy cancer cells. Scholia is receiving the therapy in 42 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: conjunction with conventional cancer treatment, and so far the results 43 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: are promising. After a year, Scholia's MRI scans show no 44 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 1: recurrence of the tumor. He's speaking here with Network seven. 45 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 3: I think it's amazing I'm still here, But it could 46 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 3: just be luck that I'm only one patient, and some 47 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 3: patients do survive for a long time in brain cancer. 48 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 3: So ultimately we need a clinical trial that puts patients 49 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 3: into different groups to see if this treatment actually works 50 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 3: or not. Is it just a fluke that I happen 51 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 3: to be alive, not related to the treatment. 52 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: Tanzy Harcourt is a business journalist with The Australian, and 53 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: she remembers vividly hearing the news of Richard Schollier's diagnosis. 54 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 4: When was diagnosed, I had a lot of people contacting 55 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 4: me just because I have a brain tumor. Myself I 56 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 4: was diagnosed thirteen years ago now, and I don't have 57 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 4: a glioblastoma. I have something that at the time was 58 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 4: called an oligo astrocytoma. People reached out to me because 59 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 4: anyone with a malignant brain tumor faces an uphill battle. 60 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 4: There's been very little developments in finding a qure for 61 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 4: brain tumors, and he was just so public with what 62 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 4: he was trying to do, which is something different to 63 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 4: what has been done in the past. 64 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: Richard Scolia and his professional partner, Georgina Long are experts 65 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 1: in melanoma and have pioneered amazing treatments for that kind 66 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: of cancer. This was something new to them. How did 67 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: they apply the lessons that they've learned in melanoma treatment 68 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 1: to this globlastoma that Richard was facing. 69 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 4: There's a couple of things that they're doing that is 70 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 4: a little bit different. The first, really significant thing is 71 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 4: that he was treated before his surgery. Now, the reason 72 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 4: why that is unusual in brain tumors is because most people, 73 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 4: if they have a brain tumor, they've got pressure on 74 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 4: the brain as a result of that, and so to 75 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 4: reduce the pressure they need a surgery. So the surgery 76 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,679 Speaker 4: then is how they diagnose what kind of brain tumor 77 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 4: it is. But it's also taking pressure off the brain, 78 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 4: which can be fatal. So in his case, he had 79 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 4: a seizure when he was overseas and it wasn't putting 80 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 4: so much pressure on that he needed to be operated 81 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 4: on immediately. He was able to return to Australia and then, 82 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 4: of course, because he's an expert in that field, they 83 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 4: were able to come up with a new treatment protocol 84 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 4: for him, give him that first and then have the surgery. 85 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 4: That's an unusual step and that's not something that is 86 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 4: currently in clinical trials in Australia, I think maybe even 87 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 4: anywhere in the world. 88 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: He's had a year of no reappearance of his globelastoma. 89 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: That is wonderful news for Richard and his family, of course, 90 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,679 Speaker 1: but it's caused some mixed feeling among experts and also 91 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: other people who are living with cancer. Can you talk 92 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: a little bit about that. Why is that causing mixed feelings? 93 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 4: It's causing mixed feelings because or to start with, anyone 94 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,119 Speaker 4: that's dealing with the glier blastomer has a very bleak 95 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 4: future under the current treatment protocols. So the idea of 96 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,359 Speaker 4: somebody that is so highly regarded coming up with a 97 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 4: new idea and then being so public about it is 98 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 4: creating an incredible amount of hope in the community, which 99 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 4: is understandable. And the only problem with that, of course, 100 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 4: is that one year doesn't necessarily indicate anything one way 101 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 4: or another. It could be that this treatment protocol is working, 102 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 4: or it could be he had a really good reception, 103 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 4: which means the surgery went really well. It could be 104 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 4: the radiotherapy, or it might not work at all. It's 105 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 4: actually just too early to tell, and he is clear 106 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 4: about that in his book. He's clear about the fact 107 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 4: that it's too early to tell. But every time he 108 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 4: expresses hope and relief when he has a good result, 109 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 4: and still there's just an outpouring of people that then 110 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 4: want to do that as well for obvious reasons. 111 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: Is there an equity issue here too, where people may feel, 112 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: if they are suffering something similar to Richard, for example, 113 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: that they're not getting the same opportunities that he is, 114 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: and if they are feeling like that, is that valid. 115 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 4: I think that there are a lot of people that 116 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 4: are feeling like that. I've got two neuroncologists and one 117 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 4: of them is also a Richard's neurooncologist, And I know 118 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 4: that there's a lot of people that have been reaching 119 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 4: out to their various specialists saying, we want to do 120 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 4: that treatment, and they've even been reaching out to the 121 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 4: Melanoma Institute of Australia, who's had to put something up 122 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 4: saying we don't treat brain tumors. So I think that 123 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 4: people are perhaps feeling a bit panic that they're missing out, 124 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 4: But the truth is that the various professionals need to 125 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 4: have time to try and create a clinical trial that 126 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 4: replicates the work that Richard and Georgina Long have done. 127 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 4: So they're producing a paper themselves and there are I 128 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 4: think multiple processes underway at the moment where various specialists 129 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 4: for neurooncology are trying to create a clinical trial, but 130 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 4: you can't just kind of jump into it because obviously 131 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 4: they're very risky and dangerous. And one of the issues 132 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 4: with any of these things is that you can get 133 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 4: pressure on the brain as a result of the drugs 134 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 4: that you're taking. So it's not the same as perhaps 135 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 4: if you had a cancer somewhere else in your body 136 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 4: and it swelled as a result of immunotherapy that wouldn't 137 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 4: necessarily have as diret consequences as if it was inside 138 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 4: the confined space of your skull. 139 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: Coming up, what's the balance between fear and hope when 140 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: a story as big as Richard's school years comes along. 141 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 1: This is just a taste of The Australian's new foray 142 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: into deep coverage of health. Check it out at the 143 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: Australian dot com dot au and we'll be back after 144 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: the break. At The Australian, Tansy works for our Business 145 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: section as a senior journalist. She grills CEOs and CFOs 146 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: about profits and balance sheets and corporate decision making, so 147 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: she's very comfortable with charts and graphs, the numbers that 148 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: tell us a bigger story that's informed the way she's 149 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: approached cancer as a story and as a human experience. 150 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 4: Look, I think I probably pestered my doctors more than 151 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 4: they would like, because every time I go in for 152 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 4: my six monthly scans, I always have questions. There might 153 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 4: be one trial that's been tried here and something else 154 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 4: that's come up there, and I always like to ask 155 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 4: the statistics are pretty bad, and the treatment protocols haven't 156 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 4: changed all that much either at this point in time. 157 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 4: Right now, the best treatment is a really good brain surgery. 158 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 4: I've had two, a really good resection it's called and radiotherapy. 159 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 4: So there are chemotherapy drugs, but they generally at this 160 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,199 Speaker 4: point in time, are more helping in terms of quality 161 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 4: of life rather than extending life. 162 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: They talk about the school your effect. 163 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 2: What is that? 164 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 4: That's basically this idea and you alluded to it earlier 165 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 4: that people want to have what he's doing because the 166 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 4: work that he's done in Melanomahi and Georgina. Obviously that's 167 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 4: the reason why they were the Australians of the Year. 168 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 4: This year has been so exciting and everyone thinks, well, 169 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 4: if he's doing it, then it must be right, and 170 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 4: hopefully he will be right. But it's just too early 171 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 4: to tell that yet. So I think everyone kind of 172 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 4: hopes and crosses their fingers. But you can't have everyone 173 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 4: jumping into what he's doing at this point in time. 174 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. So at the same time, here we have this 175 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: beacon of hope for many people, and we also have 176 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: frustration and maybe a bit of panic. As you said, 177 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: how do you think ultimately we'll look back at the 178 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: balance of those two things. Is this a moment where 179 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: we take a big leap forward or is it a 180 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: lot of pain for a lot of people. 181 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 4: My suspicion is that it will be both. I think 182 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 4: immunotherapy has so far proven to be the main area 183 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 4: where there are breakthroughs in cancer treatments, So I think 184 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 4: that hope is important, and I think it's pretty likely 185 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 4: that he's on the right track. But whether or not 186 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 4: it's going to be soon enough for him or anyone 187 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 4: that's even currently diagnosed, I don't know. The other thing 188 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 4: that I think is really important to draw attention to 189 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 4: is just the fact that he's done such a good 190 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 4: job of talking about his story that it's raising a 191 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 4: w farness of brain tumors, and that in turn helps 192 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 4: raise money for research into brain tumors because it's quite 193 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 4: an expensive business. There is that mixture of hope and 194 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 4: possibly disappointment and anxiety for everyone, but hopefully he's going 195 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 4: to nail it first go well. 196 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing your story. 197 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 4: Thank you. 198 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: Tanzy Harcourt is a senior reporter with The Australian. You 199 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 1: can read her story at The Australian dot com dot 200 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: a U. Thanks for joining us this week. On the front. 201 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: Our team is Kristin Amyot, Tiffany Dimak, Jasper Leek, Lead, 202 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: Sam mcglou, Joshua Burton, Stephanie Coombs and me Claire Harvey.