Speaker 1: Twice is the pattern three times? His character?
Speaker 2: Oh I like that my job.
Speaker 3: That's like just throwing out.
Speaker 2: You take my job, Mart.
Speaker 4: Look, Where's your Head At?
Speaker 3: Is a podcast that talks four things. Little hold on
Speaker 3: a sec. Let's give this a refresh. Hi, I'm Anna.
Speaker 1: And I'm Matt, and we are now too newlywed not
Speaker 1: to each other. Just a female and male best friend
Speaker 1: here for the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Speaker 3: Times and exploring adulthood, family relationships, dilemmas.
Speaker 1: And whatever else we have the mental capacity to deal with.
Speaker 3: Come get the lowdown.
Speaker 1: This is your male and female perspective.
Speaker 3: So, Matt, where's your head at? Hello, and welcome. We
Speaker 3: have a beautiful dating coach on the podcast today. Her
Speaker 3: name is Mimi.
Speaker 1: What Hello, Hi, welcome to where's your Head Up?
Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1: We're excited to have you. Yeah, where's your head at?
Speaker 2: My head at? My head my head up. My head's good,
Speaker 2: my head feels very clear today. I'm very excited to
Speaker 2: be here and just talk all things dating and relationships.
Speaker 3: We've just been picking Mimi's brain, being like what about this?
Speaker 3: What about that? She specializes in attachment styles, so we
Speaker 3: are going to get so deep into attachment styles. You
Speaker 3: guys are going to be so well versed on all
Speaker 3: things anxious, attachments, secure and all of the other ones.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1: Is there only the three or is there one more?
Speaker 2: There's actually four. There's just organized attachment. It's just less
Speaker 2: spoken about.
Speaker 1: I've never heard of that heard that one either.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're excited to get into it. You must get
Speaker 3: all of the tea. Being a relationship coach, you know
Speaker 3: lots of everyone's relationships. What would you say is the
Speaker 3: most surprising thing that you've learnt about love and connection
Speaker 3: that most people maybe wouldn't expect.
Speaker 2: It's such a good question. I think the thing that's
Speaker 2: been most surprising for me on my own journey and
Speaker 2: then seeing it come out in clients as well, is
Speaker 2: that once you if you've been in a series of unhealthy,
Speaker 2: your toxic relationships, and then you finally get into a secure,
Speaker 2: healthy relationship. I used to think that that just means
Speaker 2: it's all sunshine and rainbows and like you've met your
Speaker 2: dream person and you have the happily ever after and
Speaker 2: there's no more work. Like it's just what you see
Speaker 2: in the Disney movies. And in Hollywood movies, and I
Speaker 2: found that there's actually so much work that still needs
Speaker 2: to be done when you're in those healthy relationships. It's
Speaker 2: different sort of work. It's not as hard as the
Speaker 2: toxic ones, but it's you know, there's still so much
Speaker 2: that can come through that needs to be healed and
Speaker 2: worked on. And I found that to be probably the
Speaker 2: most surprising.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were talking before about how everyone should be
Speaker 3: in therapy, right.
Speaker 1: Match, Yeah, I agree, I think that, and you said
Speaker 1: as well, you think relationships should be in therapy even
Speaker 1: if they have nothing wrong with them. It's just good
Speaker 1: to go to therapy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's just about setting yourself up for success.
Speaker 2: Like the more you can understand yourself and the more
Speaker 2: you can understand one another, the better off you're going
Speaker 2: to be when you come up against those inevitable roadblocks
Speaker 2: down the line, because no relationship is perfect and you're
Speaker 2: always going to come up against some sort of conflict
Speaker 2: or issue. And I think if you understand each other
Speaker 2: and also have the tools to learn how to navigate it,
Speaker 2: like communication tools or you know, just understanding one another,
Speaker 2: it just makes such a difference. So, yeah, it's sort
Speaker 2: of like just prevention is better than cure.
Speaker 3: If there was one universal relationship rule that everyone should follow,
Speaker 3: what would that rule be.
Speaker 2: H It's kind of a classic and a cheesy one,
Speaker 2: but my answer would be to treat other people the
Speaker 2: way you want to be treated. So with a lot
Speaker 2: of my clients, they'll tell me about the type of
Speaker 2: relationship they want, they have a partner that they want
Speaker 2: to be with, and I always say that starts with you.
Speaker 2: That starts with how your coming up in dating and relationships.
Speaker 2: So for example, like let's say, in the dating world,
Speaker 2: if you don't want to be ghosted by other people,
Speaker 2: don't be someone who goes to other people. Like if
Speaker 2: you want someone who's open with their communication, you need
Speaker 2: to be that person first. So just that classic. It's
Speaker 2: a cliche, but it worked.
Speaker 3: I think communication is so big in relationships and being
Speaker 3: able to communicate with your partner in a really healthy way, yeah,
Speaker 3: is so imperative. How can we communicate better in our relationships?
Speaker 2: Such a good one. I think with communication, the key
Speaker 2: is seek to understand. Seek to understand one another because
Speaker 2: when we are communicating with our partner, there can be
Speaker 2: a lot of ego involved, and we just want to
Speaker 2: be right, and we want to be heard that we
Speaker 2: we can get so focused on that that we forget
Speaker 2: about trying to actually understand where the other person is
Speaker 2: coming from. And if we don't understand, then it's going
Speaker 2: to cause so many issues in the relationship. So, like,
Speaker 2: I'll give you an example. Let's say you've got a couple,
Speaker 2: a guy and a girl, and the guy has a
Speaker 2: habit of when they're out in public, always looking at
Speaker 2: other women, like attractive women, and he's not doing it
Speaker 2: in a pervy way. He's just you see someone hot,
Speaker 2: you kind of look and he's just not aware of it.
Speaker 2: The woman in the relationship has a history of being
Speaker 2: cheated on, so she's got betrayal, her trust has been broken,
Speaker 2: so it's a really it's sensitive for her when she
Speaker 2: sees him doing that. If they didn't have a conversation
Speaker 2: where she could he could understand why it was so
Speaker 2: sensitive for her, they might end up in a pattern
Speaker 2: of her just like giving him the cold shoulder, stonewalling him,
Speaker 2: getting pissed off being cold, and he's like, what's wrong,
Speaker 2: and she's, you know, kind of expecting him to be
Speaker 2: able to read her mind, and then that would like, yeah,
Speaker 2: and if he's saying, well, you're just being controlling, like
Speaker 2: I'm not, I don't mean anything by it. I'm not
Speaker 2: even doing anything right. So that's where we're just clashing
Speaker 2: heads and we're not a team anymore. But if he
Speaker 2: was able to go deeper, I'm like, can you tell
Speaker 2: me why this bothers you so much? Like I want
Speaker 2: to understand, And it created that safe space for her
Speaker 2: to open up and say, Look, i was cheated on
Speaker 2: in the past, and so I'm working to rebuild my
Speaker 2: self esteem. And like, when I see you looking at
Speaker 2: other women on the street, it doesn't it's hurting me.
Speaker 2: It doesn't help me in this journey. And then you know,
Speaker 2: communicating what you would need from him, And I guess
Speaker 2: if you have an understanding, it just allows you to
Speaker 2: like kind of drop your defenses and come around to
Speaker 2: that other person have more empathy, like, oh, I didn't
Speaker 2: know that you'd been through that. Therefore it makes sense
Speaker 2: that you know it hurts you when I look at
Speaker 2: other women. Thank you for telling me, Like, I'll be
Speaker 2: more conscious of that.
Speaker 1: What would you say to someone then that doesn't want
Speaker 1: to be vulnerable because they're scared of getting hurt but
Speaker 1: they're going into a new relationship and to stop themselves
Speaker 1: from getting hurt again, they have to be vulnerable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a bit of a cuts I think. Yeah. Look,
Speaker 2: being vulnerable is never easy, but it is. It's a
Speaker 2: prerequisite if you want a real, healthy relationship that has
Speaker 2: depth to it. So I think it's about having to
Speaker 2: be brave and take some steps to be vulnerable. But
Speaker 2: it's also about who you're choosing to be vulnerable with, Like,
Speaker 2: you get to choose who that person is, and if
Speaker 2: you're dating someone who anytime you mention emotions or anything
Speaker 2: about how you feel, if that other person gets weird
Speaker 2: or shuts you down or tells you you're being too
Speaker 2: emotional too much, you're not going to feel safe to
Speaker 2: open up and be vulnerable, are you. So yeah, I
Speaker 2: think you know being vulnerable. It's best when you are
Speaker 2: with someone who makes you feel safe to be vulnerable.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that's a big part of it. Hold space
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I like what you said before. When you argue and
Speaker 1: it's about trying to be right with your partner. I
Speaker 1: heard another analogy that if you win a real if
Speaker 1: you win an argument, your relationship loses. Yeah, yes, you
Speaker 1: should never win an argument with your partner.
Speaker 3: Well because you guys are routine.
Speaker 1: But which is it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, let's pivot to dating in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: I think it's hard, right, It's so difficult, And I
Speaker 3: have a lot of friends who are single and they
Speaker 3: tell me some horror stories, and we all have our
Speaker 3: horror stories. But I feel like twenty twenty five has
Speaker 3: just that little bit of extra spice with people being
Speaker 3: very disposable because of dating apps. What is the best
Speaker 3: way to meet someone? Would you say?
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, you're right, it's difficult these days because
Speaker 2: there are so many options and with the dating apps, says,
Speaker 2: I mean, you've got endless options in front of you.
Speaker 2: I mean, is there a right way or a wrong way? Like,
Speaker 2: is there a best way? I don't know. I think
Speaker 2: I've personally had great experiences meeting people in real life
Speaker 2: and also on the apps. Yes, So I think it's
Speaker 2: just about so where your heads are you want to
Speaker 2: start putting yourself out there to date. I think the
Speaker 2: dating apps can be an amazing way to meet people,
Speaker 2: Like we've heard lots of success stories of people on
Speaker 2: the apps, but it's about the clearer you are on
Speaker 2: what you're looking for and what your intentions are before
Speaker 2: you even get yourself onto the apps, the better you're
Speaker 2: going to set yourself up for success. So if you
Speaker 2: are in your casual dating error, I don't want something serious,
Speaker 2: be upfront about that on your dating profile and when
Speaker 2: you're talking to people, or if you are looking for
Speaker 2: a long term relationship, be upfront about that. I see
Speaker 2: a lot of people they kind of tiptoe around that
Speaker 2: because they think, oh, if I say I want a
Speaker 2: long term relationship, people are going to be put off
Speaker 2: by that and they're going to just but no, like
Speaker 2: you need to.
Speaker 1: Be well, if someone's put off by it, then they're
Speaker 1: not the right person.
Speaker 2: Well exactly, that's it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And like I always say, like, you don't
Speaker 3: want someone to fall in love with this fake persona
Speaker 3: that you're putting on to impress them, Like you want
Speaker 3: someone to fall in love with you, but you know,
Speaker 3: the first first date.
Speaker 1: Like you're just sitting on the.
Speaker 3: Go that far.
Speaker 1: But I mean, like, yeah, this is means two months
Speaker 1: from now for dating? Is that too early to get
Speaker 1: into that stage? Though? These days, I don't know how
Speaker 1: long do people show that these days?
Speaker 2: I think it varies and just depends on the person.
Speaker 2: Like some people are just going to be have no shame,
Speaker 2: like this is who I am and it's there. They're
Speaker 2: just like unapologetic about it. And other people are going
Speaker 2: to be more self I wonder how.
Speaker 1: Long I was with my wife when I would get
Speaker 1: up and still brush my teeth in the morning and
Speaker 1: she'd do the same before we'd like kiss that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't do that anymore. When that's when that stopped.
Speaker 3: But it's it is cute, like when you look back
Speaker 3: at those moments and you're like still trying to impress them,
Speaker 3: like you like quickly get up and like put a
Speaker 3: bit of like powder up.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, So people are often scared of dating. I would say,
Speaker 3: what do you think makes dating so scary for people?
Speaker 2: Rejection? Yeah, yeah, fear of rejection.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I think in this day and age, people the rate
Speaker 2: of comparison and self esteem issues has never been bigger
Speaker 2: because of social media, and I think there is a
Speaker 2: very real fear that a lot of people, especially they've
Speaker 2: come across in my line of work, just have this
Speaker 2: core belief that they're not good enough, and so putting
Speaker 2: yourself out there in dating situations. I mean, it's a
Speaker 2: sure fire way to be in the firing line for rejection.
Speaker 2: And I think I think people the more they avoid dating,
Speaker 2: the bigger that fear gets. And so i'd say it's rejection.
Speaker 2: I'd also say it's probably a fear of like your
Speaker 2: worst fear coming true. So people think that, you know,
Speaker 2: it's so hard to meet anyone good, I'm not going
Speaker 2: to meet anyone nice. I'm going to be single forever.
Speaker 2: And if they're projecting that fear, and then they go
Speaker 2: out and they have, you know, five dates that have
Speaker 2: sucked or they've failed, it's almost the fear of proving
Speaker 2: that to be true, and so they just kind of
Speaker 2: I see a lot of people just not trying at
Speaker 2: all because they're so scared.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've seen that too.
Speaker 1: You coach them out of that?
Speaker 2: I do, ye, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: And how do you coach them that? For people listening,
Speaker 3: if you're someone who's afraid to date, what can they do?
Speaker 2: I think if you're afraid to date, I mean, first
Speaker 2: of all, it's what do you what are you truly
Speaker 2: afraid of? Because if we don't look at that like
Speaker 2: under a microscope, often just it's just the anticipation and
Speaker 2: the fear that feels so daunting that we just stop ourselves.
Speaker 2: So it's like, what, really, what is the worst case?
Speaker 2: You know, like you go on a date nothing evolves
Speaker 2: from it, or you go on a date like the
Speaker 2: worst maybe the worst cases you get stood up or
Speaker 2: something I don't know, and looking at that, it's like, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: that would be a ship but could you handle it,
Speaker 2: Like do you reckon? You'd be okay, you'd come out
Speaker 2: of that and likely it's like, yes, they would.
Speaker 5: And laugh about it's a good story.
Speaker 1: It's a good story.
Speaker 3: Yeah, after a couple of months.
Speaker 1: You're saying all this stuff like I don't know, like
Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff I just laugh about, Like
Speaker 1: because imagine getting stood off. You'd be like it would hurt.
Speaker 1: But imagine going and tell me.
Speaker 3: You'd be like you're a loser for standing Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, I would imagine me calling you and being like, hey,
Speaker 1: I just stood off.
Speaker 3: Like it's funny. But it's also like a little bit
Speaker 3: of a like.
Speaker 1: I could in the ego, I can understand that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: my ego is not that fragile.
Speaker 3: I always go into dating with this mindset that ninety
Speaker 3: nine point nine percent of these dates aren't going to
Speaker 3: work out, so I'm kind of doing it for the
Speaker 3: story and for the plot.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that mindset shift really helped me
Speaker 3: with dating because I was horrendous going on a first date,
Speaker 3: like I would have before my first date with my husband.
Speaker 3: I had three shots of tequila because I'm so nervous,
Speaker 3: like just downing them with like a little bit of
Speaker 3: lemon in my apartment by myself, like freaking out, having
Speaker 3: meltdowns like I don't want to go.
Speaker 1: I can't relate to that, Like I would never get
Speaker 1: nervous for a first date.
Speaker 3: Really, you're like one in a million. Then, because I can't,
Speaker 3: I don't really know anyone.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's like one thing I do say
Speaker 2: to people and I used to I try to use myself,
Speaker 2: is just pretend you're going to meet a friend. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like you're just you don't think of it as a date.
Speaker 2: Just think of it as like you're just going to
Speaker 2: get to know someone. Because if you think about when
Speaker 2: you're going to meet a friend, the energy is so different,
Speaker 2: like there's no expectation, there's no concern, You're just going
Speaker 2: to be yourself. You're just going to be curious about
Speaker 2: your friend, like what's been going on, how you're going
Speaker 2: And that just creates such a more authentic vibe and
Speaker 2: energy that I think helps you to get out of
Speaker 2: your head and just into the present moment so that
Speaker 2: you can actually see do we connect? Like how do
Speaker 2: I feel around this person? Is there a vibe? So yeah,
Speaker 2: just and you say like dropping the expectation.
Speaker 3: How do you get to the point where you think
Speaker 3: to yourself like I'm a good data like I've I've
Speaker 3: nailed this, I've got this. Is it something when you've
Speaker 3: clocked it and you've got married? It's about getting married.
Speaker 3: I think it's like like you you know you're actively
Speaker 3: dating or like what's that mindset? What's going on within?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think to be a good data I think
Speaker 2: I really think dating is a skill. So, like anything
Speaker 2: any skill, you're going to get better at it the
Speaker 2: more you do it. You're going to get more confident
Speaker 2: in speaking about yourself in asking questions. And I think
Speaker 2: so experience is one thing like practicing just putting yourself
Speaker 2: out there, you know, getting the reps in, but then
Speaker 2: also really knowing yourself and knowing what your patterns are,
Speaker 2: knowing what your history is. You just don't want to
Speaker 2: be going in blind, like on autopilot. Right, So if
Speaker 2: you are someone who's never stopped to reflect on your
Speaker 2: past relationships or dating experiences, and majority of them have
Speaker 2: had issues and they've been bad. If you don't stop
Speaker 2: and reflect, you're highly likely to just continue that pattern
Speaker 2: and attract more of the same people. So it's like
Speaker 2: knowing what are your red flags you're looking out for,
Speaker 2: what are your non negotiables, what are your green flags?
Speaker 2: Are things that are positive for you? You just know
Speaker 2: those things.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be super super super deep detail,
Speaker 2: but just having a bit of an idea, but it's
Speaker 2: going to help you be a better data.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I reckon. Yeah, I feel like there's been
Speaker 3: lots of bad dates that I've been able to reflect on,
Speaker 3: and I think by the end of like my dating
Speaker 3: career shall we call it, I had like a list
Speaker 3: of just like absolute nos. So like by the end
Speaker 3: of dating, if someone did something that crossed my boundary,
Speaker 3: I was like totally out, Like yeah, you just like
Speaker 3: with your ex, I'm out, Whereas like at the start
Speaker 3: of my dating career, I would be like, oh, but
Speaker 3: it's okay, like we're not officially together and like that's fine,
Speaker 3: or like they lied to me about something big, or
Speaker 3: like you know, like what what am I going to
Speaker 3: put up with? And what am I not? And I
Speaker 3: guess that's where boundaries come in.
Speaker 1: Well, if you let your boundaries slide early on with someone,
Speaker 1: then they're going to be like, well, you know, I
Speaker 1: can keep crossing boundaries.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I keep getting away with it and getting.
Speaker 1: Away with it, and you're not. You're already up to
Speaker 1: a shit it anyway.
Speaker 3: So yeah, what would you say, are some red flags
Speaker 3: that you shouldn't ignore when it comes to dating?
Speaker 2: Okay, red flags you shouldn't ignore. The first one is
Speaker 2: probably just compatibility. So depending on what you're looking for.
Speaker 2: I see so many people they'll tell me they want
Speaker 2: a relationship and then they meet someone who's like leaving
Speaker 2: the country in two months or who has just broken
Speaker 2: up with their X and like, yeah, but there's a
Speaker 2: really good connection. Like stop.
Speaker 1: Chemistry and connection doesn't equal compatibility.
Speaker 3: No. I don't know if it's because I'm pregnant, but
Speaker 3: that like really just like so hard, Like say, like.
Speaker 1: You hit it off with someone, you've got good chemistry,
Speaker 1: you're like haha, laughing. It doesn't mean you're compatible because
Speaker 1: you don't.
Speaker 3: Have the same values or you might have things that.
Speaker 1: Don't align the one for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so hopefully everyone else wasn't as slow as I.
Speaker 1: Was chemistry because it doesn't you get.
Speaker 2: It a great point to bring in. Yeah, so the
Speaker 2: compatibility piece of like are you if you're not on
Speaker 2: the same page about where you're at in terms of
Speaker 2: emotional availability or lifestyle factors all that. Don't ignore that
Speaker 2: and just think that, oh no, but like it'll work
Speaker 2: out and things will just magically fall into place. It's
Speaker 2: maybe that will happen, but you know, yeah, there's a
Speaker 2: high chance it won't. Or another red flag is just
Speaker 2: if someone is really inconsistent and they're hot and cold
Speaker 2: and they're saying one thing and they're doing another. So
Speaker 2: if they're out of integrity and if you're noticing early
Speaker 2: on that you're feeling a lot of anxiety because you're
Speaker 2: not really sure what's going on, Like they're kind of
Speaker 2: leaving you guessing a lot, major red flag, Like definitely.
Speaker 1: Do you believe in if they wanted to they would statement.
Speaker 2: I think to a large degree, if they wanted to
Speaker 2: they would. Yes, Yeah, if you're genuinely interested in someone
Speaker 2: and you want the connection to develop, like you're going
Speaker 2: to make that happen. You're going you're not gonna tiptoe
Speaker 2: around it. You know, it's going to be obvious. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I think if there's a lot of excuses being made,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of justification going on, that's a red flag.
Speaker 2: It's like, well, if it's you know, a healthy relationship
Speaker 2: should be fairly easy and straightforward as the connection is developing.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like you said, Matt, sometimes there's going to
Speaker 2: be things in life that are with out of our
Speaker 2: control and they're going to get in the way, and
Speaker 2: you can't always make things happen. Like life isn't so
Speaker 2: black and white, and there's got to be consideration. And
Speaker 2: I just think the biggest thing is if it's becoming
Speaker 2: a pattern, it's happening over and over again that someone
Speaker 2: is yeah, they're not showing up for you, they're making excuses,
Speaker 2: and it's happening more than a few times.
Speaker 1: And twice is a pattern. Three times his character?
Speaker 2: Oh I like that my job.
Speaker 3: That's like just throwing out.
Speaker 2: You take my job, Matt. Look, if you want.
Speaker 3: You have actually recently launched your own podcast, it's called
Speaker 3: The Secure Love Club Congratulations, and you do a lot
Speaker 3: of work in love languages and attachment styles. Do you
Speaker 3: think that these are buzzwords or do you think that
Speaker 3: there's actually some depth to knowing your attachment styles and
Speaker 3: your love languages.
Speaker 2: I think they definitely are very common now. People are
Speaker 2: talking about this all over TikTok, all over Instagram. Attachment styles.
Speaker 2: It is a bit of a buzzword thing, but there's
Speaker 2: so much depth to it, and it's such an important
Speaker 2: component of relationships and how the different dynamics we experience
Speaker 2: in relationships and how things play out. So yeah, it's
Speaker 2: in a bit of a buzzword phase, but very important work.
Speaker 1: Okay, So the attachment styles go through them? Okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: so you're the guest.
Speaker 2: There's so we have there's four attachment styles. Three are
Speaker 2: more common commonly spoke about. So there's securely attached, which
Speaker 2: is actually about fifty percent of the population. Then we
Speaker 2: have the insecure attachment styles, so there's anxiously attached on
Speaker 2: one end, and then avoidant attached on the other. And
Speaker 2: then there's a fourth one called disorganized attachment, which is
Speaker 2: a bit of a combination of anxious and avoidance, so
Speaker 2: you're not like predominantly in one. You kind of flip
Speaker 2: flop between the two quite intensely, but yet mostly the secure,
Speaker 2: anxious and avoidant.
Speaker 1: You said the fifty secure.
Speaker 5: Yeah, where the fuck are they married? Where the fuck
Speaker 5: are whack it up?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Right? Would you mind sharing what you are?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely? I am securely attached previous anxiously attached girl and.
Speaker 1: You worked through that to get too secure? Do you
Speaker 1: have a partner that helped you get there?
Speaker 2: Or I did have a partner who helped me there?
Speaker 2: So I started my journey of going from anxious to
Speaker 2: secure in twenty twenty. So I went through quite a
Speaker 2: significant breakup with a partner who was heavily avoidant. I
Speaker 2: was heavily anxious, the dream combination, And once that relationship
Speaker 2: broke down, I sort of looked back over all of
Speaker 2: my past relationships and I just had this kind of
Speaker 2: moment where I thought, why the fuck does this keep happening? Like,
Speaker 2: why are relationship so hard? It shouldn't have to be
Speaker 2: like this. And I would look around at other couples
Speaker 2: who were happy and seemed to be in a healthy
Speaker 2: relationship and that's when I kind of realized I'm the
Speaker 2: common denominator here amongst all of these, so I need
Speaker 2: to figure some shit.
Speaker 1: Out great self awareness.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you knowing that.
Speaker 2: So that's when I and my sister, actually my elder
Speaker 2: sister had been getting me, telling me to read this
Speaker 2: book called Attached by Emir Levine for a good couple
Speaker 2: of years, and I kept pushing it away, pushing it
Speaker 2: away because like, I don't need it, don't need it,
Speaker 2: you know, I think you're not ready to you're ready
Speaker 2: to actually confront this stuff. And went through this breakup
Speaker 2: and she's like, read this damn book. It's like fine.
Speaker 2: So I took it and just absolutely inhaled it. Like
Speaker 2: it was as though for the first time in my life,
Speaker 2: this blindfold was being lifted, and I finally understood myself
Speaker 2: and why I attracted certain types of people in relationships,
Speaker 2: why I was always so anxious, always feeling like I
Speaker 2: was too much. And that's when the healing journey started.
Speaker 2: So that's when I was just you know, delving into
Speaker 2: the topic researching. I hired a coach of my own
Speaker 2: to help me work through it, and did a lot
Speaker 2: of work for about a year. I it was intentionally
Speaker 2: single for a year to work on my relationship with myself. Great, yeah,
Speaker 2: which I think is very important, And then ended up
Speaker 2: attracting a beautiful guy, secure man and we got into
Speaker 2: a relationship. And that sort of comes back to what
Speaker 2: I said earlier about I was surprised at how much
Speaker 2: should have needed to be worked through coming into a
Speaker 2: secure relationship, because as those who are anxiously attachable, when
Speaker 2: you're dating people who are avoidant or emotionally unavailable, there's
Speaker 2: a lot of chaos. There's a lot of up and down.
Speaker 2: It's very tumultuous. And when you get into a secure
Speaker 2: with a secure partner, in that relationship, it's so stable
Speaker 2: and predictable and they're just they're there, and for your
Speaker 2: nervous system, when you're not wired for that stability, it's
Speaker 2: very jarring and you almost want to create chaos where
Speaker 2: there is none. I found myself wanting to do that,
Speaker 2: like create fights or create drama out of nothing, because
Speaker 2: I was like, is this what a healthy relationship is?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: It's boring almost, right, So there's an adjustment period with that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it sounds like having an anxious partner and
Speaker 3: an avoidant partner is not what we want to have
Speaker 3: in a relationship. But of course there's probably people out
Speaker 3: there listening who are an avoidant and an anxious attachment person.
Speaker 3: How can they strengthen their relationship If you.
Speaker 2: Have someone who's anxious and avoidant and there's real love there,
Speaker 2: but you're really struggling to understand each other, I would say,
Speaker 2: if you want the relationship to work, you both have
Speaker 2: to want to work at it. Yeah, So that means
Speaker 2: understanding your history, right, because our attachment styles are predominantly
Speaker 2: formed in our early childhood. So understanding what was your
Speaker 2: relationship like with your parents? What was it when you
Speaker 2: were emotional and like you said, you had that bid
Speaker 2: for connection with your parent or you tried to express it.
Speaker 2: Were they there for you consistently? Did they shut you down?
Speaker 2: Did you your parents go through a divorce? Like, all
Speaker 2: of these things are contributing to how you're showing up
Speaker 2: in your romantic relationships as an adult. So the better
Speaker 2: you can understand that as individuals, the more you're going
Speaker 2: to be able to understand what's going on for the
Speaker 2: other person and you can work with each other to
Speaker 2: try to become more secure in the relationship.
Speaker 3: In some ways is an anxious and an anxious attachment
Speaker 3: to get good because then they're just yeah, I don't
Speaker 3: know if i'd say each other, I don't know.
Speaker 2: No, not commonly no, no, the yeah, an anxious and
Speaker 2: anxious might just be really codependent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, I can say that. Yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 3: Connect.
Speaker 1: That's not good to be codependent on your partner.
Speaker 2: That's you want to be more like interdependent. So you
Speaker 2: want to be It means that you are happy and
Speaker 2: comfortable being independent so you can live your life outside
Speaker 2: of the relationship. You have friends, Like, you're happy doing
Speaker 2: your own thing, but you're also comfortable leaning on your
Speaker 2: partner for support and also giving your partner support. So
Speaker 2: you understand it's natural for you to to want to
Speaker 2: lean on one another and that doesn't scare you away
Speaker 2: or anything. It's fine. But if your partner wants to
Speaker 2: go out for the night with their friends, you're like,
Speaker 2: no worries, Like, you're happy doing your.
Speaker 3: Thing, so like a healthy version of that. You want
Speaker 3: to we want to keep it healthy. What about avoidant
Speaker 3: and avoidant do they ever get together?
Speaker 2: Yes, they can.
Speaker 1: Their arguments. Just imagine the rug would be like this
Speaker 1: because they swept everything under the ru.
Speaker 2: Well, exactly. Yeah, the problem. The problem with those relationships
Speaker 2: is that there's really not a lot of communication going
Speaker 2: on about what they're feeling. And I think people who
Speaker 2: are avoidant can really struggle to even identify what they're
Speaker 2: feeling because they're so used to pushing their emotions down
Speaker 2: and suppressing them because they don't know how to actually
Speaker 2: manage their emotions when they come up. So if you
Speaker 2: have two people who are doing that, it might seem
Speaker 2: like on paper, on surface level, that things are fine,
Speaker 2: things are chill, because there's not really any arguments going on.
Speaker 2: But what would happen over time is I think both
Speaker 2: people in that relationship would feel very isolated. Most likely
Speaker 2: they're just really comfortable in that dynamic and they just
Speaker 2: want to stay like that.
Speaker 3: Imagine a relationship with two secure people.
Speaker 1: What does that look like?
Speaker 3: Yeah, what does that look like?
Speaker 2: That looks like two people who know themselves, two people
Speaker 2: who want the relationship to work, who are comfortable holding
Speaker 2: space for each other's emotions, who are in integrity, so
Speaker 2: they say they do what they say they're going to do.
Speaker 2: They hold space for their partner. So if their partner
Speaker 2: is experiencing something. They're feeling anxious, they're feeling upset. It's
Speaker 2: you know, yet, like we said earlier, they're not put
Speaker 2: off by that. They're able to just be there for
Speaker 2: their partner and give them support and just understand what
Speaker 2: they're going through. And you work together as a team,
Speaker 2: like you know that when you're vulnerable together, it actually
Speaker 2: makes you stronger, it doesn't push you apart.
Speaker 3: Before we move on, we need to touch on disorganized because
Speaker 3: I've never heard of the disorganized attachment style. Can you
Speaker 3: take us through what that means?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So I guess if we look at anxious and
Speaker 2: avoidant for context, So someone who's anxiously attached in a
Speaker 2: relationship is typically seeking a lot of external validation. They
Speaker 2: need a lot of reassurance in the relationship that everything's okay,
Speaker 2: and that's their coping mechanism, so they'll turn to their
Speaker 2: partner to sue their anxieties. Someone who's avoidant needs the opposite.
Speaker 2: So when they're stressed or there's conflict going on, they
Speaker 2: typically want space and they push away like I just
Speaker 2: need to deal with this on my own, Give me space.
Speaker 2: Someone who's disorganized is going to be a sort of
Speaker 2: erratic blend of the two. So there's an argument, there's conflict,
Speaker 2: and the disorganized attachment person sort of doesn't know what
Speaker 2: they want, Like they might try to get really close
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden they're like no, no, no,
Speaker 2: and they push away and they stone wall their partner
Speaker 2: and then they come crawling back really quickly. So they're
Speaker 2: sort of all over the place and very disregulated. And Yeah, what.
Speaker 1: Would form someone to do that? What traumas or how
Speaker 1: would their primary caretaker have done that to them? What
Speaker 1: sort of triggers.
Speaker 2: That Typically it's people who have this attachment style have
Speaker 2: been through a very traumatic childhood. Yeah, so if we
Speaker 2: talk about things like big T trauma, so that's when
Speaker 2: there might have been physical or emotional abuse in the family,
Speaker 2: are really really difficult divorce, being abandoned, so just being
Speaker 2: left by your parents really big T trauma. Things like
Speaker 2: that would probably cause it.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's talk a little bit about love languages. What
Speaker 3: are the love languages?
Speaker 2: Love languages we have physical touch, words of affirmation, acts
Speaker 2: of service quality type yes, yes?
Speaker 3: And do we need to have the same love languages
Speaker 3: as our partner? Could this be a deal breaker? In relationships,
Speaker 3: talk us through that.
Speaker 2: You don't have to have the same ones. I think
Speaker 2: it's helpful if you do, right, because if you have
Speaker 2: someone who let's say you have one person in the relationship,
Speaker 2: they experience love through words of affirmation and then their
Speaker 2: partner the way they express love is through gift giving,
Speaker 2: right that, And I can give you as many gifts
Speaker 2: as you would ever dream of. But because that's not
Speaker 2: your love language. The way you receive love, it doesn't
Speaker 2: mean anything to.
Speaker 1: You receive it and give it in two different ways.
Speaker 2: Can you receive it and give it in two different ways?
Speaker 1: So, like I receive love through affection and words of validation,
Speaker 1: but I give it through physical touch and quality time.
Speaker 1: But I guess I feel that's how.
Speaker 5: I feel personally about your experience, and I feel like
Speaker 5: I'll take it through physical touch as well.
Speaker 1: I'll take it through.
Speaker 2: No, I mean I'll take them all.
Speaker 1: No, I'm not. I'm not big on gift giving both ways.
Speaker 1: I get uncomfortable getting gifts, and I don't really enjoy
Speaker 1: giving gifts. Like I feel uncomfortable as well. I'm like, like,
Speaker 1: do you like it? Don't give flowers or notes or
Speaker 1: something like that. But am I going to go out
Speaker 1: of my way to get like a gift like partners
Speaker 1: that you know buy me like stuff and I'm just
Speaker 1: like like five and doll stuff and I'm just like.
Speaker 2: I don't know now, Yeah, yeah, I think in my experience,
Speaker 2: how you receive love is probably mostly how you'd give it, right,
Speaker 2: because you're kind of giving like what you maybe hope
Speaker 2: to get back. But I think it varies. The most
Speaker 2: important thing is understanding how your partner receives love. So
Speaker 2: if you know that they feel the most love from
Speaker 2: you when you tell them how you feel, rather than
Speaker 2: just showing them through acts, then that's an opportunity for
Speaker 2: you to Okay, I know that means a lot to her.
Speaker 2: I know that means a lot to him, So I
Speaker 2: can make a conscious effort to do that so that
Speaker 2: they feel loved. Yeah, right, So it's just understanding your
Speaker 2: partner and what they need.
Speaker 1: You love, acts of service.
Speaker 3: I think I love them all. I think I'm the.
Speaker 5: All touch acts, gifts, gifts.
Speaker 3: Physically I think like it, Like you know, like gifts
Speaker 3: for like a special occasion is how I would receive love.
Speaker 1: Would accent service and gifts? I don't, I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm with you. I would rather my loved ones or
Speaker 2: to give me, like a really heartfelt card words to me.
Speaker 2: I'm like, give me that any day over a random present,
Speaker 2: and that's how I give it. So I despise buying
Speaker 2: gifts of people for their birthdays because I just I
Speaker 2: hate doing it. I enjoy it what to get people.
Speaker 2: But I will write you the nicest card. You'll be
Speaker 2: in tears just.
Speaker 1: The same thing. Yeah, I mean, if I seek something
Speaker 1: that I clearly know they want, I'll get it.
Speaker 3: But like, imagine someone you're in bed on a Saturday
Speaker 3: morning and then your partner goes out and gets your
Speaker 3: fresh coffee.
Speaker 2: Service. Everyone loves that.
Speaker 3: I love that. That's like hitting the spot.
Speaker 1: From I think I'd appreciate it. I'd really appreciate it,
Speaker 1: like how good is the coffee?
Speaker 3: But like, so you do like service?
Speaker 1: No, No, I wouldn't be like, oh my god. I
Speaker 1: would have been, oh my god, they're in love with me.
Speaker 1: Like say, for instance, we rocked up to the studio
Speaker 1: and you guys had me a coffee. I would have
Speaker 1: be like, oh, they're the coin, Like.
Speaker 2: Thanks, So what would make you feel? Like? Really thought of.
Speaker 1: Physical physical touch probably as well as words, but just
Speaker 1: quality time, knowing like I like to hang out quality
Speaker 1: and just to hang out quality time.
Speaker 2: Being in the same space together.
Speaker 3: I've heard. So obviously, if we have all of our
Speaker 3: preferences and then because they're our preferences, we kind of
Speaker 3: do that in return to our partner. But if we
Speaker 3: don't know them well, like, for instance, Matt would not
Speaker 3: find getting a coffee potentially like you like it, but.
Speaker 1: It's not your for instance, be my partner will go
Speaker 1: to one of us will go to the gym in
Speaker 1: the morning, and the otherum will bring a coffee back
Speaker 1: to the other person. But to me, that's just not
Speaker 1: an active So.
Speaker 3: That's just Yeah, So what I'm saying is is I
Speaker 3: think that I've I saw something that said that people
Speaker 3: go wrong in relationships when they give someone what they
Speaker 3: want as opposed to knowing what your partner needs or wants.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, because yeah, like we said before, if you're
Speaker 2: if you like I love buying gifts of people, like
Speaker 2: I'm just going to shower my partner with gifts because
Speaker 2: it makes me feel so good And if I buy
Speaker 2: you gifts, it means I love you, right, And so
Speaker 2: you're doing that you have the best of intentions. But again,
Speaker 2: if your partner, if what really means the most of
Speaker 2: them is hearing you say how much they mean to you,
Speaker 2: like hearing you say how much they love you. Then
Speaker 2: the gift giving it might be like, oh, that's really nice,
Speaker 2: but it's not like it's not giving.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, let's pivot back to relationships.
Speaker 3: We hear the word I was in a toxic relationship
Speaker 3: very often, specifically in modern day dating. Do you think
Speaker 3: that relationships are getting worse or are we just getting
Speaker 3: more switched on and klue about what we want to
Speaker 3: accept and what we.
Speaker 1: Don't setting our standards higher boundaries.
Speaker 2: I would say almost yes and no. I think on
Speaker 2: the one hand, we are getting we are more aware,
Speaker 2: and it's less taboo to talk about our emotional experiences
Speaker 2: in relationships these days. So you know, in the past,
Speaker 2: you know, for our parents and generations before them, it
Speaker 2: was very common to not talk about your emotions, and
Speaker 2: you know, you just if you get sad, you like,
Speaker 2: come on, just get on with it, like let's get
Speaker 2: on with the day, and you suppress your emotions, and
Speaker 2: that was sort of the norm. So I would say
Speaker 2: there was probably a lot of toxic relationships or unhealthy
Speaker 2: dynamics in the past. It just wasn't spoken about. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So that's on the one hand, But on the other
Speaker 2: I do think that, like we mentioned earlier, with the
Speaker 2: with dating apps and with social media, and with the
Speaker 2: perceived amount of availability or what you can have in
Speaker 2: a person, I think there's a lot of sort of
Speaker 2: disposing of people. As soon as you experience one thing
Speaker 2: you don't like, or there's one thing that makes you uncomfortable,
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, well, onto the next you mustn't be
Speaker 2: for me. So there's a lack of perseverance in getting
Speaker 2: to know the person and building the found like a
Speaker 2: strong foundation.
Speaker 5: That makes sense, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Do you think that people stay in toxic relationships longer
Speaker 3: than they should?
Speaker 2: Mostly?
Speaker 3: Yes, And how can they not do that?
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's the nature of a toxic relationship is
Speaker 2: what makes you stay. So when we're in there's a
Speaker 2: relationship where let's say there's a highly anxious, highly avoidant,
Speaker 2: we could say that's toxic, and what's actually going on
Speaker 2: is there's a real like chemical addiction that's happening in
Speaker 2: the body. So for someone who's anxious when there's a conflict,
Speaker 2: you'll get this spike in cortisols. It's like the stress
Speaker 2: hormone and adrenaline in your body. You're freaking out, Your
Speaker 2: nervous system is all over the place, and you are
Speaker 2: so desperate to get that person's connection to come back
Speaker 2: to you and to get their love. When you finally
Speaker 2: do get it, you get this huge flood of dopamine
Speaker 2: and oxytosein like the love hormone. So that spiral like
Speaker 2: that's up and down is really addictive. It's been said
Speaker 2: to be the same as like a heroin addiction, like
Speaker 2: really high highs, really low lows. So it's not that
Speaker 2: people are just weak or have like not enough willpower
Speaker 2: to leave a toxic relationship. It's like you're literally addicted
Speaker 2: to the cycle. So yeah, a lot of people stay
Speaker 2: in them longer than they should. But I think it's
Speaker 2: because they just they don't know any better. Yeah, they
Speaker 2: just think that this is what relationships are, this is
Speaker 2: what's normal. Like I can figure it out, and there's
Speaker 2: a thing called forget the term. But it's like when
Speaker 2: you are let's say, as a child, your parents were
Speaker 2: very emotionally unavailable, so you never knew, like if they
Speaker 2: were going to be there for you when you needed
Speaker 2: them to emotionally. And so as an adult, you have
Speaker 2: this subconscious drive to want to like win the game,
Speaker 2: to almost master it. So you keep attracting people who
Speaker 2: are emotionally unavailable because you think, if I just try
Speaker 2: hard enough, if I just do enough, I'll crack it
Speaker 2: and I'll win them over. So there's this, Yeah, a
Speaker 2: lot of it is driven subconsciously.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, speaking of toxic relationships, we need to touch
Speaker 3: on setting boundaries. I feel like as a society we
Speaker 3: have gotten so much better at setting boundaries in workspaces
Speaker 3: with friends, but I feel like in relationships sometimes people
Speaker 3: still really struggle. Why do you think that is.
Speaker 2: The biggest reason is that you there's a fear of abandonment.
Speaker 2: So you think if I set a boundary, it's just
Speaker 2: going to push my partner away and I'm going to
Speaker 2: lose love. So you don't set boundaries. You just let
Speaker 2: people take whatever they want from you, cross your boundaries.
Speaker 2: Because Yeah, I think for a lot of people, the
Speaker 2: fear of losing their partner just outweighs the desire to
Speaker 2: create like a healthy, respectful relationship.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but then I guess would we say to those
Speaker 3: peop people, if you don't set the boundaries early on,
Speaker 3: then you're not with someone who respects and cares about you.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes, And I think it comes with really learning
Speaker 2: how to set boundaries in your life, even before a
Speaker 2: relationship or outside a relationship. Yeah, and with yourself. I
Speaker 2: always say that you teach people how to treat you
Speaker 2: by the way you treat yourself. So if you uphold
Speaker 2: boundaries that protect your time, protect your energy, and you
Speaker 2: really maintain them, then people are naturally going to see
Speaker 2: that in you. They're going to say, Okay, this is
Speaker 2: someone who takes herself seriously, who doesn't fuck around, So
Speaker 2: I need to make sure i'm like rising to meet
Speaker 2: that I need to respect her boundaries. So a boundary,
Speaker 2: instead of looking at as looking at it as something
Speaker 2: that pushes people away, you're actually if you set boundaries
Speaker 2: to the people, it's sort of an act of love
Speaker 2: because you're telling people I care about you, I want
Speaker 2: you in my life. So if you want to be
Speaker 2: in my life, this is how to do it, Like
Speaker 2: this is how to love me, this is how to
Speaker 2: be around me. As long as you protect these like
Speaker 2: we're good, and I'm going to give you the best
Speaker 2: of me because my energy and time are going to
Speaker 2: be protected.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. Let's just say you're in a relationship and
Speaker 3: you haven't set good boundaries and you realize, maybe a
Speaker 3: little bit too late, that fuck, I need to actually
Speaker 3: start setting boundaries and following through with them. Can you
Speaker 3: still do that or does it need to happen from
Speaker 3: the start.
Speaker 2: No, I'd say it's never too late. Okay, it's never
Speaker 2: too late to set a boundary. Yeah. And as something
Speaker 2: that is very common that can happen is when you
Speaker 2: start setting boundaries, you'll notice some people in your life
Speaker 2: will really hate it because they might lose certain access
Speaker 2: to you. They can't just have you at their disposal
Speaker 2: whenever they want. And if there's a big uproar when
Speaker 2: you do set a boundary, it's probably a sign that
Speaker 2: it was really needed. Yeah, So it's not too late,
Speaker 2: you know. I think no one's perfect and it can
Speaker 2: take time to realize like, oh, I'm actually feeling really
Speaker 2: fucking depleted in this relationship. Why It's because I don't
Speaker 2: have boundaries here, here, and here. So you know, hopefully
Speaker 2: you're with someone who is open to always open to
Speaker 2: growing in the relationship, and it's just about having that conversation,
Speaker 2: setting the boundary, and then the biggest part is following
Speaker 2: through and maintaining it. Like you said earlier, Matt, if
Speaker 2: you don't maintain the boundary, people will see that and
Speaker 2: they will test you whether it's weakness. Yeah, And a
Speaker 2: lot of the time it's not that it's malicious or
Speaker 2: it's intentional. It's just that people will naturally want to
Speaker 2: be selfish and get what they can from someone that
Speaker 2: they love. So if you're letting people across your boundaries, like,
Speaker 2: that's on you as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, Obviously. I know that a lot of people
Speaker 3: fall into the people pleaser category and you don't want
Speaker 3: to put boundaries down even with friends, because you feel
Speaker 3: like you could come across as rude or cold. What
Speaker 3: would you say to those people, I.
Speaker 2: Would say that if you're you know, the most important
Speaker 2: relationship you have is the one you have with yourself.
Speaker 2: And if you are overgiving just to make everyone else happy,
Speaker 2: like you only have so much energy you can give
Speaker 2: and you're going to reach a point of burnout, you're
Speaker 2: not going to be happy. Yeah, So if you can
Speaker 2: take care of yourself, like that's when you get to
Speaker 2: give people the best of you, not the rest of you.
Speaker 2: You're not just pouring from an empty cup. So don't
Speaker 2: be afraid to take care of yourself and set boundaries.
Speaker 2: And it's a great way to find out who your
Speaker 2: real people are, like the friends of your real friends,
Speaker 2: and also in a romantic relationship, because people who truly
Speaker 2: love you and want to be around you will respect
Speaker 2: your boundaries. Yeah, so I.
Speaker 3: Couldn't agree more for it. Should we finish with a
Speaker 3: thumb one?
Speaker 1: Yeah? What is the most ridiculous piece of dating advice
Speaker 1: or a relationship advice that you've been given or received
Speaker 1: that works? Yeah, but we don't want to give people
Speaker 1: stuff that doesn't work.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: You could say dates.
Speaker 2: Actually you said this earlier and one time, so years ago,
Speaker 2: when I was very anxious on dates, a friend of
Speaker 2: mine said, you just need to show up like you're
Speaker 2: the prize. And at first was like, what do you mean?
Speaker 2: Like that sounds so conceited. I don't want to walk
Speaker 2: in there thinking I'm like hot shit, I don't want
Speaker 2: to you know, have this huge ego, And she's like, no,
Speaker 2: it's not about that, It's just about flipping your focus
Speaker 2: when you're on the dates. So rather than going in
Speaker 2: and being really self conscious wondering like am I good
Speaker 2: enough for this person? They like me? And my pretty enough?
Speaker 2: Am my interesting enough? Whatever? To flip the focus and
Speaker 2: ending like you're the prize so that you can look
Speaker 2: at this person and say, well, are they good enough
Speaker 2: for me?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what we say on that Yes, are they.
Speaker 2: Aligned with what I want? You know, do they have
Speaker 2: the qualities I'm looking for? And it's not to say
Speaker 2: that you're better than anyone, it's just to you know,
Speaker 2: you're the prize, like boost your esteem a little bit
Speaker 2: and just see if other people are good enough for you,
Speaker 2: And it definitely works.
Speaker 3: Mamie, thank you so much. This has been amazing. We've
Speaker 3: learned so much. I hope this has been super helpful
Speaker 3: for you guys, and make sure you go check out
Speaker 3: Mami's podcast and next time.
Speaker 1: Bye bye, thank you, thank you for coming.
Speaker 3: One mm hmm