1 00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:07,801 Speaker 1: Apoche production. 2 00:00:14,321 --> 00:00:16,681 Speaker 2: Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand I'm Your Host 3 00:00:16,721 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 2: Adam Shand. Parole for violent remorseless offenders is increasingly under scrutiny. 4 00:00:23,361 --> 00:00:26,121 Speaker 2: Once upon a time, nearly all inmates were released into 5 00:00:26,161 --> 00:00:28,361 Speaker 2: the community, often to reoffend. 6 00:00:28,881 --> 00:00:32,761 Speaker 3: The New South Wales community outrage grows over violent offenders 7 00:00:32,841 --> 00:00:34,041 Speaker 3: being released. 8 00:00:33,601 --> 00:00:35,521 Speaker 4: On parole now. 9 00:00:35,721 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 2: Fortunately, community standards have changed and hardened, and more applications 10 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 2: are being denied. Some files are being marked never to 11 00:00:45,561 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: be released. A monster named Robert Black Farmer is one 12 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 2: such individual. Do I believe has forfeited his right to 13 00:00:53,601 --> 00:00:55,041 Speaker 2: return to society. 14 00:00:55,641 --> 00:00:58,961 Speaker 3: A brutal attack on Sydney home leaves eighteen year old 15 00:00:59,081 --> 00:01:01,081 Speaker 3: clinging to life. 16 00:01:01,161 --> 00:01:04,401 Speaker 2: In November two thousand and five, Farmer, while on bail 17 00:01:04,481 --> 00:01:09,321 Speaker 2: for other violent offenses and also on parole, randomly selected 18 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,761 Speaker 2: eighteen year old Lauren Huxley for a senseless and terrifying attack. 19 00:01:14,601 --> 00:01:17,321 Speaker 2: Lauren was home alone at her family residence in Sydney 20 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:22,041 Speaker 2: when Farmer struck. He tied Lauren up, brutally beat her, 21 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 2: doused her in petrol and left her for dead before 22 00:01:26,041 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 2: setting fire to the home. It was a crime that 23 00:01:31,481 --> 00:01:32,681 Speaker 2: shocked Australia. 24 00:01:33,401 --> 00:01:37,241 Speaker 5: A house set alight after a savage assault. The victim 25 00:01:37,321 --> 00:01:42,401 Speaker 5: was discovered inside the burning garage. Emergency crews say survival 26 00:01:42,521 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 5: chances were almost zero. 27 00:01:46,081 --> 00:01:48,841 Speaker 2: And it was a miracle that she survived, and it's 28 00:01:48,881 --> 00:01:53,241 Speaker 2: been a long and challenging road to recovery. Now twenty 29 00:01:53,361 --> 00:01:57,401 Speaker 2: years into a twenty four year prison term, Farmer is 30 00:01:57,481 --> 00:02:02,121 Speaker 2: technically eligible for parole this year in July, and Lauren 31 00:02:02,161 --> 00:02:05,401 Speaker 2: and her family are dealing with the possibility that this 32 00:02:05,601 --> 00:02:10,281 Speaker 2: unrepentant and dangerous germ may have another shot at freedom. 33 00:02:10,841 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 3: Family braces as offenders parole date approaches. Survivor Lauren Huxley 34 00:02:15,641 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 3: says she fears for community safety. 35 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:23,041 Speaker 2: If the system works, Farmer should never win his freedom. 36 00:02:23,761 --> 00:02:26,081 Speaker 2: He has never accepted the blame for what he did 37 00:02:26,361 --> 00:02:30,161 Speaker 2: and has shown no remorse. He's not used his time 38 00:02:30,201 --> 00:02:34,561 Speaker 2: in prison productively. He's undergone no training or education in jail. 39 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,641 Speaker 2: He shows no sign of wanting to return as a 40 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:39,761 Speaker 2: productive member of society. 41 00:02:40,401 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 3: The court told that the attacker showed no remorse and 42 00:02:43,561 --> 00:02:46,161 Speaker 3: refused to accept responsibility. 43 00:02:46,321 --> 00:02:51,201 Speaker 2: But ultimately the system will decide to discuss this and 44 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: the impact on the family. I'm joined by Lauren at 45 00:02:54,001 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: her sister Simone. Ladies, welcome to real crime. 46 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: Hi Adam, thank you for having us on today. 47 00:03:01,481 --> 00:03:04,641 Speaker 2: Absolute pleasure. Simone. Now you two almost like twins, two 48 00:03:04,721 --> 00:03:10,321 Speaker 2: years ten months apart, and you've had to suffer the 49 00:03:10,361 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 2: consequences of that day in two thousand and five together 50 00:03:13,921 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 2: but also in different ways. 51 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 4: How are you traveling, Samoon? First? 52 00:03:19,161 --> 00:03:22,641 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know it's been twenty years, but 53 00:03:23,121 --> 00:03:26,761 Speaker 1: you're still reliving the trauma all these years on, especially 54 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: now that the perpetrator has come out for parole. But 55 00:03:29,841 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: it never leaves you. You know, we just had to 56 00:03:31,841 --> 00:03:33,841 Speaker 1: learn how to get on with life as specific could 57 00:03:34,201 --> 00:03:37,841 Speaker 1: in supporting Lauren moving forward with her recovery. But you've 58 00:03:37,881 --> 00:03:39,841 Speaker 1: just got to take, you know, what you can in 59 00:03:39,881 --> 00:03:41,961 Speaker 1: life and look forward to the positives. And I think 60 00:03:41,961 --> 00:03:45,001 Speaker 1: that's what Lauren, in particularly but also my family have 61 00:03:45,201 --> 00:03:47,641 Speaker 1: done and always you know, shown that we want to 62 00:03:48,041 --> 00:03:50,601 Speaker 1: move forward. We have a lot of love together as 63 00:03:50,601 --> 00:03:52,601 Speaker 1: a family and I think that really got us through 64 00:03:52,721 --> 00:03:54,881 Speaker 1: our darkest times. 65 00:03:55,121 --> 00:03:55,321 Speaker 4: Yeah. 66 00:03:55,361 --> 00:03:57,961 Speaker 2: I think your family is quite inspirational and in a 67 00:03:58,001 --> 00:04:03,641 Speaker 2: way represents the common good folk of Australia. You know, 68 00:04:04,001 --> 00:04:06,601 Speaker 2: you're not perfect. You've had your moments going through this 69 00:04:06,681 --> 00:04:10,641 Speaker 2: whole issue, but you've stuck fast, You've stayed the course. 70 00:04:11,201 --> 00:04:13,681 Speaker 2: That's been a tremendous support, I'm sure for you, Lauren. 71 00:04:14,361 --> 00:04:18,161 Speaker 6: Yes, of course, having with my family by my side 72 00:04:18,561 --> 00:04:21,921 Speaker 6: and you know, all the support thank giving me, it's 73 00:04:21,961 --> 00:04:23,081 Speaker 6: made such a difference. 74 00:04:23,161 --> 00:04:24,921 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what I would have 75 00:04:24,961 --> 00:04:26,601 Speaker 1: done without them, you know. 76 00:04:27,521 --> 00:04:29,961 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I'm not going to say you were fortunate, 77 00:04:30,041 --> 00:04:33,241 Speaker 2: but in some ways you were spared the worst of 78 00:04:33,281 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 2: this because you had anesia that lasted for months. You 79 00:04:35,961 --> 00:04:39,001 Speaker 2: remember nothing of the attack by Farmer, nothing of the 80 00:04:39,081 --> 00:04:39,681 Speaker 2: lead up at all. 81 00:04:40,241 --> 00:04:43,921 Speaker 6: No, I do not remember that day, and I had 82 00:04:43,921 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 6: three months post traumatic amnesia, which I can't I can't recall, 83 00:04:49,201 --> 00:04:52,601 Speaker 6: you know, the experience I endured and everything, you know, 84 00:04:52,641 --> 00:04:54,841 Speaker 6: which I'm so thankful for because I would hate to 85 00:04:54,921 --> 00:04:58,961 Speaker 6: have to relive that traumatic experience that I went through. 86 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:03,601 Speaker 2: And at the same time, Simon, your sister didn't have 87 00:05:03,641 --> 00:05:04,281 Speaker 2: the amnesia. 88 00:05:04,761 --> 00:05:05,681 Speaker 4: She's I had to go through it. 89 00:05:05,681 --> 00:05:08,041 Speaker 2: And I've noticed over the years reading the media, she's 90 00:05:08,081 --> 00:05:09,801 Speaker 2: often been the one that's jumped out in front of 91 00:05:09,801 --> 00:05:12,801 Speaker 2: the media and told the story. Can you see how 92 00:05:13,481 --> 00:05:14,321 Speaker 2: it's affected her? 93 00:05:15,961 --> 00:05:19,761 Speaker 6: Yeah, my family, they've gone Yeah, well, I can't actually 94 00:05:19,961 --> 00:05:24,201 Speaker 6: say what how they feel, because I mean I that 95 00:05:24,241 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 6: you've watched us obviously go through a different type of trauma. Yeah, 96 00:05:27,681 --> 00:05:30,681 Speaker 6: it obviously happened to you, but obviously Mum and dad 97 00:05:30,681 --> 00:05:33,841 Speaker 6: and myself we had to watch you go through it, 98 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,801 Speaker 6: which was incredibly heartbreaking. Yeah, you know, you're my best 99 00:05:36,801 --> 00:05:42,201 Speaker 6: friend and my only sibling, and it destroyed Mum and 100 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,481 Speaker 6: Dad and myself just not knowing of you know, what 101 00:05:45,521 --> 00:05:48,641 Speaker 6: your future was going to be, if at all, you know, 102 00:05:48,721 --> 00:05:51,641 Speaker 6: we didn't know, of course, And I am so thankful. 103 00:05:51,681 --> 00:05:54,721 Speaker 6: I'm so grateful and thankful for everything, you know, everything 104 00:05:54,721 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 6: that everyone has done for me along the way. You know, 105 00:05:59,041 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 6: I'm just so relieved to be alive, you know so much. 106 00:06:04,601 --> 00:06:05,681 Speaker 1: You know's a miracle. 107 00:06:05,801 --> 00:06:08,081 Speaker 6: I had to walk talk at eight at the age 108 00:06:08,121 --> 00:06:11,241 Speaker 6: of nineteen. This happened when I was eighteen, but my 109 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:15,161 Speaker 6: birthday's in December, so with everything going on, by the 110 00:06:15,201 --> 00:06:19,721 Speaker 6: time I was able to get up and move around, 111 00:06:20,561 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 6: I was nineteen. It was like watching a baby bee reborn, 112 00:06:23,841 --> 00:06:26,881 Speaker 6: really just doing the simple things that we will take 113 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,001 Speaker 6: for granted in life, and watching her through her struggles. 114 00:06:30,561 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 6: It was really difficult for us to watch as a 115 00:06:33,241 --> 00:06:36,281 Speaker 6: family but we we had to be there for each other, 116 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 6: and we had our moments and times of breaking down 117 00:06:39,801 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 6: because you know, it was we couldn't believe that this 118 00:06:42,401 --> 00:06:44,481 Speaker 6: was happening to our family. We were just a normal, 119 00:06:44,521 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 6: aussy family going about our day that day. Lauren was 120 00:06:48,121 --> 00:06:50,801 Speaker 6: at eighteen, you know, a vivacious young woman with her 121 00:06:50,841 --> 00:06:52,321 Speaker 6: whole life ahead of her. 122 00:06:52,721 --> 00:06:55,001 Speaker 1: I was twenty one at the time. Mom and Dad, 123 00:06:55,001 --> 00:06:57,801 Speaker 1: you know, hard working people that they are, and yeah, 124 00:06:58,001 --> 00:07:00,921 Speaker 1: you just you go to work that day and you 125 00:07:01,001 --> 00:07:03,241 Speaker 1: come home and your whole world is just turned upside 126 00:07:03,241 --> 00:07:06,801 Speaker 1: down with your house being set on fire, and then 127 00:07:06,841 --> 00:07:11,161 Speaker 1: obviously the devastating news are received of you know, Lauren's 128 00:07:11,201 --> 00:07:16,641 Speaker 1: been attacked, and it was just it was just incomprehensible 129 00:07:16,681 --> 00:07:19,801 Speaker 1: to even understand or fathom why and what and how 130 00:07:20,441 --> 00:07:23,881 Speaker 1: who would do this to my sister. She was so innocent, 131 00:07:24,521 --> 00:07:27,161 Speaker 1: you know, so kind and caring and had a lot 132 00:07:27,161 --> 00:07:29,961 Speaker 1: of friends and not an enemy in the world. Just 133 00:07:30,041 --> 00:07:33,121 Speaker 1: you know, it was really tough in the early days, 134 00:07:33,161 --> 00:07:34,641 Speaker 1: and particularly I think. 135 00:07:34,481 --> 00:07:38,001 Speaker 2: Some of the best family fights happened at Christmas. Your 136 00:07:38,041 --> 00:07:39,161 Speaker 2: family was no exception. 137 00:07:39,801 --> 00:07:40,041 Speaker 4: There. 138 00:07:40,121 --> 00:07:42,801 Speaker 2: Lauren's in hospital, You're there with your mum and dad, 139 00:07:43,001 --> 00:07:45,881 Speaker 2: you get into a blue with them and it's it's 140 00:07:45,921 --> 00:07:48,201 Speaker 2: all on tell that story, I think, I think. But 141 00:07:48,241 --> 00:07:50,681 Speaker 2: that was coming back to see Lauren after that, where 142 00:07:51,281 --> 00:07:55,081 Speaker 2: I guess the cohesion was really cemented, if you like. 143 00:07:55,721 --> 00:07:59,481 Speaker 1: Yeah, So Christmas was only not even eight weeks after 144 00:07:59,681 --> 00:08:03,441 Speaker 1: Lauren's attack. Her birthday is Christmas Eve, so we went 145 00:08:03,481 --> 00:08:06,281 Speaker 1: to celebrate her birthday. She doesn't remember that, but we 146 00:08:06,321 --> 00:08:08,841 Speaker 1: wanted to be around her on that day, and then 147 00:08:08,921 --> 00:08:11,321 Speaker 1: we went to see her on Christmas morning and it 148 00:08:11,441 --> 00:08:14,201 Speaker 1: just I think it was just the reality then of wow, 149 00:08:14,321 --> 00:08:16,681 Speaker 1: like this is real, this is actually happening to our family, 150 00:08:16,761 --> 00:08:22,921 Speaker 1: and it's just so foreign and traumatic and stressful, you know, 151 00:08:22,961 --> 00:08:25,761 Speaker 1: all the things, and we just all keep breaking point. 152 00:08:26,081 --> 00:08:27,961 Speaker 1: You know, we should have been spending Christmas together with 153 00:08:28,041 --> 00:08:31,361 Speaker 1: family and friends, and we weren't. You know, my beautiful 154 00:08:31,401 --> 00:08:35,441 Speaker 1: sister I was laying in brain injury unit fighting to recover. 155 00:08:36,081 --> 00:08:38,001 Speaker 1: So once we went to see her in the morning, 156 00:08:38,041 --> 00:08:41,121 Speaker 1: we came back to the apartment that we were staying 157 00:08:41,121 --> 00:08:42,721 Speaker 1: in because we couldn't even go back to our family 158 00:08:42,721 --> 00:08:45,201 Speaker 1: home because it would have been burnt. And that was 159 00:08:45,241 --> 00:08:48,561 Speaker 1: stressful in itself. So we were very fortunate. The community 160 00:08:48,801 --> 00:08:52,481 Speaker 1: really rallied around Lauren and my family, and our local 161 00:08:52,601 --> 00:08:55,681 Speaker 1: church was cooking meals for us every day for six months, 162 00:08:55,681 --> 00:08:58,041 Speaker 1: and they drop it to the hospital, which was so kind, 163 00:08:58,081 --> 00:09:00,601 Speaker 1: because the simple things when you're going through all this, 164 00:09:00,681 --> 00:09:03,121 Speaker 1: you forget to eat. So they made us a beautiful 165 00:09:03,201 --> 00:09:05,841 Speaker 1: Christmas lunch and we all went back to eat it, 166 00:09:06,041 --> 00:09:08,721 Speaker 1: and then we all just lost it with each other. 167 00:09:08,881 --> 00:09:11,681 Speaker 1: It was just there was too much. The pressure and 168 00:09:11,721 --> 00:09:13,641 Speaker 1: this stress was too much. So we all end up 169 00:09:13,641 --> 00:09:16,081 Speaker 1: in an argument, and we all end up in our 170 00:09:16,081 --> 00:09:18,001 Speaker 1: different corners of the house. I remember going on the 171 00:09:18,001 --> 00:09:23,401 Speaker 1: front steps and eating my beautiful prawns, crying into my food. 172 00:09:23,601 --> 00:09:27,481 Speaker 1: It was horrible, but we realized that, you know, once 173 00:09:27,521 --> 00:09:29,241 Speaker 1: we had our moment and our breakdown, we need to 174 00:09:29,241 --> 00:09:30,881 Speaker 1: get it together because we wanted to go back and 175 00:09:30,881 --> 00:09:33,881 Speaker 1: see Lauren in the afternoon, and we did. We picked 176 00:09:33,881 --> 00:09:37,801 Speaker 1: ourselves up, We cried and hugged, and we went back 177 00:09:37,841 --> 00:09:40,681 Speaker 1: to see her. And that was important. That was an 178 00:09:40,681 --> 00:09:44,521 Speaker 1: important thing for us to stick together to help Lauren, 179 00:09:44,921 --> 00:09:46,281 Speaker 1: but also be there to help each other. 180 00:09:47,161 --> 00:09:50,241 Speaker 2: I'm sure for you, Simon, there must have been moments 181 00:09:50,281 --> 00:09:52,441 Speaker 2: where you thought to yourself, this could have been me. 182 00:09:52,721 --> 00:09:54,601 Speaker 2: It might have been me at home that day on 183 00:09:54,641 --> 00:09:56,761 Speaker 2: my own and Farmer could have selected me. 184 00:09:58,001 --> 00:10:02,441 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, I always have that guilt that 185 00:10:02,881 --> 00:10:06,041 Speaker 1: I wasn't there to protect my little sister. I actually 186 00:10:06,041 --> 00:10:08,441 Speaker 1: had the opportunity to leave work early that day and 187 00:10:09,121 --> 00:10:11,441 Speaker 1: I just recently started a new job and I didn't 188 00:10:11,441 --> 00:10:14,321 Speaker 1: have any clients in the afternoon, and I could have 189 00:10:14,441 --> 00:10:16,121 Speaker 1: you left, and I thought, no, I need to know 190 00:10:16,161 --> 00:10:18,801 Speaker 1: Sean Keene. And anyway, I ended up getting clients booked in. Sorry, 191 00:10:18,801 --> 00:10:21,361 Speaker 1: I stayed. And I still regret that to this day 192 00:10:22,081 --> 00:10:24,881 Speaker 1: that I could have been there to possibly protect her. Then, 193 00:10:24,921 --> 00:10:27,241 Speaker 1: I mean, it could have also been both of us 194 00:10:27,361 --> 00:10:32,521 Speaker 1: been attacked, but I still, you know, I still feel that, Yeah, 195 00:10:32,641 --> 00:10:35,041 Speaker 1: I had that guilt that I wasn't there to protect 196 00:10:35,041 --> 00:10:37,441 Speaker 1: my little sister that day, which, you know, something that 197 00:10:37,481 --> 00:10:38,161 Speaker 1: still haunts me. 198 00:10:39,321 --> 00:10:43,041 Speaker 2: There were a couple of miracles that day that you survived, Lauren, 199 00:10:43,121 --> 00:10:47,201 Speaker 2: But also the reason why was because of the quick 200 00:10:47,241 --> 00:10:51,361 Speaker 2: thinking of a constable Danny Ead, who saw Lauren's body 201 00:10:51,521 --> 00:10:54,121 Speaker 2: still alive in the garage. 202 00:10:53,601 --> 00:10:54,121 Speaker 4: Of the house. 203 00:10:55,521 --> 00:10:59,201 Speaker 1: Yeah, Danny was incredible. Obviously, the house had been set 204 00:10:59,241 --> 00:11:02,681 Speaker 1: on fire, and the firefighters went in and did their 205 00:11:02,721 --> 00:11:05,561 Speaker 1: bit and checked the house and put the wire out. 206 00:11:06,201 --> 00:11:09,721 Speaker 1: Danny walked around the back of the house and our 207 00:11:09,761 --> 00:11:12,561 Speaker 1: garage wasn't attached to the house, and that's where Lauren 208 00:11:12,881 --> 00:11:16,681 Speaker 1: was guarded by our two little dogs. And he thought 209 00:11:16,841 --> 00:11:20,961 Speaker 1: somebody's here because there was a basket of washing, which 210 00:11:21,241 --> 00:11:23,161 Speaker 1: he thought, why would someone get close off the line 211 00:11:23,201 --> 00:11:25,601 Speaker 1: and not bring them in. Thankfully, I was a lazy 212 00:11:25,601 --> 00:11:28,241 Speaker 1: twenty one year old at the time, and mum and 213 00:11:28,241 --> 00:11:29,881 Speaker 1: got the close off the line and said, simoone, I'm 214 00:11:29,921 --> 00:11:31,681 Speaker 1: not bringing them in, you bring them in. So I 215 00:11:31,721 --> 00:11:34,281 Speaker 1: went for a run that morning, I came home, I 216 00:11:34,361 --> 00:11:36,561 Speaker 1: got the clothes out of the basket and I ran 217 00:11:36,601 --> 00:11:38,481 Speaker 1: inside to go get have a shower and get changed, 218 00:11:38,561 --> 00:11:40,521 Speaker 1: and I left the basket there, and I'm so grateful 219 00:11:40,561 --> 00:11:43,641 Speaker 1: that I did, because he just assumed somebody was there. 220 00:11:43,681 --> 00:11:45,161 Speaker 1: So then that drew him to the back of the 221 00:11:45,161 --> 00:11:49,121 Speaker 1: garage door, and that's when he went in and saw 222 00:11:49,441 --> 00:11:51,561 Speaker 1: what he thought at the time was a mannequin laying 223 00:11:51,601 --> 00:11:55,241 Speaker 1: there very still, with our two dogs by her side. 224 00:11:55,521 --> 00:11:57,961 Speaker 1: So then that's when he went to go and call 225 00:11:58,081 --> 00:12:01,721 Speaker 1: back up. Then thankfully there was a paramedic on stand 226 00:12:01,721 --> 00:12:04,721 Speaker 1: by two and so they just once they found Lauren, 227 00:12:05,161 --> 00:12:08,561 Speaker 1: you know, fighting for her life. Literally, they all stepped 228 00:12:08,601 --> 00:12:11,841 Speaker 1: into action and was absolutely incredible. And we cannot think 229 00:12:12,241 --> 00:12:16,201 Speaker 1: the first responders in particularly enough for what they did 230 00:12:16,241 --> 00:12:17,041 Speaker 1: that day for Lauren. 231 00:12:17,601 --> 00:12:22,641 Speaker 2: Because this story is frozen at that time two thousand 232 00:12:22,681 --> 00:12:26,761 Speaker 2: and five in most people's minds in Australia, twenty years 233 00:12:26,801 --> 00:12:30,761 Speaker 2: almost twenty one years has passed. He spent all that 234 00:12:30,921 --> 00:12:35,081 Speaker 2: time in jail, and now I guess when you look 235 00:12:35,081 --> 00:12:37,681 Speaker 2: at a sentence like that, twenty four years, it seems 236 00:12:37,721 --> 00:12:41,041 Speaker 2: like distant in the future day he might come out, 237 00:12:41,481 --> 00:12:46,401 Speaker 2: But now it's theoretically almost upon you. Lauren, how do 238 00:12:46,481 --> 00:12:49,761 Speaker 2: you feel about this person who is a stranger to you? 239 00:12:49,761 --> 00:12:52,281 Speaker 2: You don't even though he did this, you don't know 240 00:12:52,321 --> 00:12:54,801 Speaker 2: who he is. How do you feel about him? 241 00:12:56,001 --> 00:13:03,441 Speaker 6: I am quite concerned and are worried. I don't want 242 00:13:03,481 --> 00:13:06,441 Speaker 6: to see him ever again. You can't blame me like 243 00:13:06,721 --> 00:13:09,801 Speaker 6: you know. It's nearly killed me as he was charged 244 00:13:09,841 --> 00:13:15,121 Speaker 6: with attempted murder. But I'm concerned and worried really, and. 245 00:13:15,081 --> 00:13:17,641 Speaker 2: I'm sure you've got lots of questions about what will 246 00:13:17,641 --> 00:13:19,921 Speaker 2: happen from here. Have you been adequately dealt with by 247 00:13:20,001 --> 00:13:23,921 Speaker 2: the authorities to be informed? About the process and the 248 00:13:24,041 --> 00:13:26,241 Speaker 2: likelihood of him actually gaining parole. 249 00:13:27,441 --> 00:13:30,201 Speaker 1: So my mom and dad and myself have been in 250 00:13:30,241 --> 00:13:33,721 Speaker 1: contact with the Victims Support Unit. Lauren doesn't want anything 251 00:13:33,761 --> 00:13:36,081 Speaker 1: to do with that, which is totally fair enough. Nor 252 00:13:36,121 --> 00:13:37,881 Speaker 1: does she come to the Cork case because it was 253 00:13:37,961 --> 00:13:41,361 Speaker 1: just too much for her, which is completely understandable. So, yeah, 254 00:13:41,521 --> 00:13:43,641 Speaker 1: to answer your question, we have been in contact with 255 00:13:43,681 --> 00:13:47,281 Speaker 1: the Victims Support Unit to basically, you know, update us 256 00:13:47,281 --> 00:13:50,561 Speaker 1: of what is happening and what is the process, because 257 00:13:50,601 --> 00:13:52,561 Speaker 1: obviously it's such a foreign thing to our family. We 258 00:13:52,601 --> 00:13:56,641 Speaker 1: don't understand this side of things. So they basically told 259 00:13:56,721 --> 00:13:59,601 Speaker 1: us that he will be eligible for parole on the 260 00:13:59,641 --> 00:14:03,001 Speaker 1: thirty first of July. The parole Board will meet at 261 00:14:03,001 --> 00:14:05,721 Speaker 1: the end of May and have a private hearing, and 262 00:14:05,801 --> 00:14:08,801 Speaker 1: then we can put submissions in for them to obviously 263 00:14:08,841 --> 00:14:12,481 Speaker 1: consider reasons being why we think that strongly that he 264 00:14:12,521 --> 00:14:17,121 Speaker 1: should be still serving the remainder of his time and 265 00:14:17,641 --> 00:14:19,681 Speaker 1: rightly so, and then it will go to the public 266 00:14:19,721 --> 00:14:24,161 Speaker 1: hearing and we will know present our case as well. 267 00:14:24,441 --> 00:14:24,721 Speaker 4: Yeah. 268 00:14:24,921 --> 00:14:28,201 Speaker 2: I think it's a baffling and scary time for the 269 00:14:28,201 --> 00:14:32,001 Speaker 2: families of victims and the victims themselves, and I sensed 270 00:14:32,001 --> 00:14:34,321 Speaker 2: in our chat early on we've been speaking for a 271 00:14:34,321 --> 00:14:36,681 Speaker 2: couple of weeks now that you needed some assistance. So 272 00:14:36,761 --> 00:14:39,961 Speaker 2: I did organize my lovely son in law, Tangy Malamboe 273 00:14:40,441 --> 00:14:43,201 Speaker 2: of Samby Legal, to take you through some of the 274 00:14:43,241 --> 00:14:45,361 Speaker 2: aspects of parole. What was the discussion. I've been a 275 00:14:45,441 --> 00:14:47,281 Speaker 2: chance to debrief with him. What was the discussion. 276 00:14:48,201 --> 00:14:50,401 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for recommending to Tank you to have 277 00:14:50,441 --> 00:14:53,321 Speaker 1: a chat with us. We're very grateful for that opportunity. 278 00:14:53,761 --> 00:14:56,761 Speaker 1: Basically just was talking us through the process of what 279 00:14:56,801 --> 00:15:00,201 Speaker 1: to expect next, you know, how it all will unfold. 280 00:15:00,601 --> 00:15:02,241 Speaker 1: Then we went to see the Victims Support you know, 281 00:15:02,321 --> 00:15:05,001 Speaker 1: and they pretty much said everything that Tangy had told 282 00:15:05,201 --> 00:15:07,881 Speaker 1: me on the phone, which is just you know, what 283 00:15:08,001 --> 00:15:11,521 Speaker 1: his rights are. I guess if his parole gets snopped back, 284 00:15:12,201 --> 00:15:15,801 Speaker 1: he won't be able to apply for another year. He 285 00:15:15,881 --> 00:15:18,841 Speaker 1: can appeal though, and one thing that surprised me when 286 00:15:18,881 --> 00:15:21,321 Speaker 1: I spoke to the Victims Support unit was you know, 287 00:15:21,881 --> 00:15:25,201 Speaker 1: he can actually appeal if his parole is revoked. And 288 00:15:25,241 --> 00:15:28,801 Speaker 1: I said, well, can Lauren appeal if he gets greintered parole? 289 00:15:28,841 --> 00:15:31,881 Speaker 1: And no, unfortunately that's not the case, which is quite 290 00:15:31,961 --> 00:15:34,241 Speaker 1: you know there's a lot to say about the system. 291 00:15:34,801 --> 00:15:36,401 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's scary in the sense that when 292 00:15:36,441 --> 00:15:39,481 Speaker 2: you realize when you go to the court system, there's 293 00:15:39,481 --> 00:15:42,841 Speaker 2: no one representing the family or the victim in the 294 00:15:42,881 --> 00:15:45,841 Speaker 2: court trial, in the parole, all these types of things, 295 00:15:46,001 --> 00:15:49,001 Speaker 2: and I think it's very alienating. And I don't blame you, Lauren, 296 00:15:49,081 --> 00:15:52,321 Speaker 2: for not wanting to be there during his trial to 297 00:15:52,401 --> 00:15:55,561 Speaker 2: see him get up on the stand, which was unusual 298 00:15:55,721 --> 00:15:59,641 Speaker 2: in itself, and to profess his innocence when there was 299 00:15:59,761 --> 00:16:03,281 Speaker 2: DNA evidence all over the scene which put him there, 300 00:16:03,921 --> 00:16:09,121 Speaker 2: and his own post offense actions clearly demonstrated he'd done 301 00:16:09,121 --> 00:16:12,201 Speaker 2: something terrible. He made that confession to a friend without 302 00:16:12,241 --> 00:16:17,401 Speaker 2: saying what he'd done. To witness that performance would be 303 00:16:17,521 --> 00:16:21,961 Speaker 2: retraumatizing in a way that I couldn't imagine. 304 00:16:21,561 --> 00:16:22,201 Speaker 4: For both of you. 305 00:16:23,281 --> 00:16:25,801 Speaker 1: Yeah, it definitely was, and that's why we wanted to 306 00:16:25,801 --> 00:16:28,201 Speaker 1: protect Lauren as best as we could with not having 307 00:16:29,241 --> 00:16:33,721 Speaker 1: her to hear in great detail what exactly this perpetrated 308 00:16:33,841 --> 00:16:36,281 Speaker 1: to her. It was hard enough for my family and 309 00:16:36,361 --> 00:16:39,841 Speaker 1: myself to sit there for a sixpek trial and hear 310 00:16:39,961 --> 00:16:42,801 Speaker 1: the evidence uninvolved, So Lauren, she didn't need to come. 311 00:16:43,001 --> 00:16:45,801 Speaker 1: She wrote out her victim impact statement and I delivered 312 00:16:45,801 --> 00:16:49,001 Speaker 1: it to the court on her behalf, which was hard, 313 00:16:49,361 --> 00:16:51,921 Speaker 1: but I did it for my sister. She needed to 314 00:16:51,961 --> 00:16:55,641 Speaker 1: have her voice heard, which was really important. So once 315 00:16:55,681 --> 00:16:58,601 Speaker 1: he was then found guilty, I said to Lauren, you know, 316 00:16:59,001 --> 00:17:02,521 Speaker 1: maybe you should come to court to see here the sentencing. 317 00:17:03,321 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: And she was quite reluctant at the time, obviously because 318 00:17:05,881 --> 00:17:07,561 Speaker 1: she was worried that he was going to see her. 319 00:17:07,881 --> 00:17:10,001 Speaker 1: And I said, no, people will not be turning around 320 00:17:10,041 --> 00:17:12,761 Speaker 1: to look at the gallery, let me tell you. And so, yeah, 321 00:17:12,761 --> 00:17:15,441 Speaker 1: so Lauren came in and it was hard because there 322 00:17:15,481 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: was a bit of evidence that would obviously, you know, 323 00:17:17,801 --> 00:17:21,281 Speaker 1: being summarized by the judge in order to have the 324 00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:24,360 Speaker 1: ruling of his sentencing. And yeah, at times it did 325 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,001 Speaker 1: get too much. Do you remember, Laus, It was a 326 00:17:26,041 --> 00:17:27,961 Speaker 1: bit you know, you had your head and yet lap 327 00:17:28,001 --> 00:17:30,561 Speaker 1: at a time. I know it was it was hard, 328 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,721 Speaker 1: but I think that, you know, I thought I didn't 329 00:17:33,721 --> 00:17:37,521 Speaker 1: want her to regret not doing that, and I think 330 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,481 Speaker 1: that you were thankful in the end that you did 331 00:17:39,761 --> 00:17:42,481 Speaker 1: come that day. At times, yeah, like I said, she 332 00:17:42,521 --> 00:17:44,041 Speaker 1: had ahead in a lap and then I was just 333 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,001 Speaker 1: making a joke, you know, with there, trying to take 334 00:17:46,001 --> 00:17:48,201 Speaker 1: a mind of it, saying, you know, he falling asleep 335 00:17:48,321 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: or what. 336 00:17:48,761 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 6: And because at that time I was still undergoing operations, 337 00:17:52,681 --> 00:17:55,201 Speaker 6: you were, you're still having treatment, and it was a lot, 338 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 6: so sometimes she'd to go through Still, Yeah, she'd walk 339 00:17:58,961 --> 00:18:01,121 Speaker 6: out of court and I obviously follow there to comfort her. 340 00:18:01,481 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: But you know, I think that was a powerful moment, 341 00:18:03,201 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: having her be in the press in standing strong after 342 00:18:07,921 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 1: what everything she had endured and gone through. It was 343 00:18:11,241 --> 00:18:14,881 Speaker 1: just I guess inclosure like closure in a way. But yeah, 344 00:18:14,921 --> 00:18:19,001 Speaker 1: I was super proud of her for being there that day. 345 00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:22,361 Speaker 2: To not look in his face, but least to not 346 00:18:22,481 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 2: be intimidated by his presence there someone who had shown 347 00:18:27,281 --> 00:18:31,561 Speaker 2: you no respect, no remorse, not even to admit that 348 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 2: he'd done it. And when you heard the sentence, he 349 00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:37,281 Speaker 2: was found guilty of attempted murder, grievous bodily harm, another 350 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:41,001 Speaker 2: five different charges. What did you think when you heard 351 00:18:41,041 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 2: the sentence twenty four years with a non parole period 352 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 2: of twenty years, Lauren. 353 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:48,561 Speaker 1: Oh, I was relieved. 354 00:18:49,681 --> 00:18:52,521 Speaker 6: You know a lot of family friends say you should 355 00:18:52,521 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 6: have got life, but you know what, I'm thankful for 356 00:18:56,801 --> 00:19:00,161 Speaker 6: the sentencing that he did get because you know, there 357 00:19:00,201 --> 00:19:04,201 Speaker 6: are people out there that get less, and we're all 358 00:19:04,281 --> 00:19:05,481 Speaker 6: very thankful for it. 359 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, in my opinion, that would never be enough. But 360 00:19:09,321 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: at the same time, we were grateful for you know, 361 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,201 Speaker 1: the maximum penalty he could receive at that time. Definitely. 362 00:19:15,201 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: I've always said, you know, he got twenty four and 363 00:19:18,241 --> 00:19:21,360 Speaker 1: a half years, essentially twenty years on parole, and Lauren 364 00:19:21,481 --> 00:19:22,641 Speaker 1: and my family got life. 365 00:19:23,321 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 6: Yeah, because you know what, I've got all these injuries. 366 00:19:26,201 --> 00:19:29,041 Speaker 6: I've got scars all over my body. I've got a 367 00:19:29,041 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 6: bald spot, which I'll always have for the rest of 368 00:19:31,481 --> 00:19:34,201 Speaker 6: my life, right, and I have to just deal with 369 00:19:34,241 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 6: that because you know, and need to happen. But at 370 00:19:37,521 --> 00:19:40,360 Speaker 6: the same time, I'm still so thankful to still be 371 00:19:40,521 --> 00:19:42,801 Speaker 6: alive and be able to do simple things in life 372 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:45,561 Speaker 6: like talk, walk, eat, you know. 373 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: Things we take for granted. You know, see here, simple 374 00:19:49,561 --> 00:19:50,241 Speaker 1: things like that. 375 00:19:50,321 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 6: You know, even I'm able to drive my car and 376 00:19:54,561 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 6: travel overseas, you know, retain a job. 377 00:19:58,561 --> 00:20:01,201 Speaker 1: There's so many things, and I think that's always nice. 378 00:20:01,321 --> 00:20:03,681 Speaker 1: Like I said, Lauren's always had such a positive attitude 379 00:20:04,041 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: in her recovery, and I think that's really what's helped 380 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,041 Speaker 1: her get through it and helped us at the same 381 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,561 Speaker 1: time keep moving forward. Yeah, definitely. 382 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. I try to be objective about these things in 383 00:20:13,521 --> 00:20:17,481 Speaker 2: my podcast, ladies, But when I hear you talking and 384 00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 2: you realize that, yes, he was found guilty of attempted murder, 385 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,361 Speaker 2: but the fact that it wasn't murder was simply because 386 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 2: you had a hero that saved you, Danny Eid it 387 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 2: would have been murder. So I mean part of me 388 00:20:29,961 --> 00:20:34,360 Speaker 2: just says, yes, never to be released, at least until 389 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,961 Speaker 2: you express some sort of remorse, some sort of insight 390 00:20:38,041 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 2: into what you've done. 391 00:20:40,041 --> 00:20:43,761 Speaker 1: Absolutely, you know, it's still hard to fathom that he 392 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,641 Speaker 1: has never shown any contrition or guilt, held any accountability 393 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: for obviously for what he did that day, never apologized. 394 00:20:51,481 --> 00:20:54,561 Speaker 1: You know, he took so much away from Lauren and 395 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: my family. Yeah, five years of my life. I was 396 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,481 Speaker 1: having operation yeah twelve, our servitory, after twelve our surgery 397 00:21:00,481 --> 00:21:03,561 Speaker 1: to reconstruct her face. We're so fortunate to live in 398 00:21:03,561 --> 00:21:06,801 Speaker 1: the country with these most incredible nurses and doctors. Yeah, definitely, 399 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:08,921 Speaker 1: and their you know, their love and care was next 400 00:21:08,921 --> 00:21:12,481 Speaker 1: to none. But you know, it's still hard to harphel 401 00:21:12,521 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 1: to swallow really to think that this person could be 402 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,681 Speaker 1: eligible to walk the streets again when he has had 403 00:21:18,801 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 1: no he doesn't care for what he did his crime. 404 00:21:22,201 --> 00:21:25,321 Speaker 1: He just he just doesn't hasn't shown anything. He didn't 405 00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 1: admit to guilt, not a thing. Yeah, he was a 406 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: career criminal. He was on bail and parole when he 407 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,561 Speaker 1: attacked my sister. So how we could let this person 408 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,481 Speaker 1: out again before his time, you know, his full sentence 409 00:21:38,961 --> 00:21:42,241 Speaker 1: is beyond me. The fact that he hasn't even come 410 00:21:42,321 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: up for day release. It's hard to comprehend that he 411 00:21:46,481 --> 00:21:49,761 Speaker 1: could actually then possibly get parole. So he hasn't even 412 00:21:49,801 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: been out in the community to you know, try to 413 00:21:52,801 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: reintegrate to you know, twenties is a long time to 414 00:21:56,561 --> 00:21:59,521 Speaker 1: be you know on the inside. Yeah, it baffles me 415 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:00,761 Speaker 1: how this can even be happening. 416 00:22:01,721 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 2: Well, he hasn't tried to better himself in any way, 417 00:22:05,241 --> 00:22:08,161 Speaker 2: which is normally a prerequisitive parole that people are trying 418 00:22:08,201 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 2: to have insight into their offending. 419 00:22:10,521 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 4: And I mean that's one of. 420 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 2: The baffling, maddening things that I'm sure traumatic things for 421 00:22:14,921 --> 00:22:17,521 Speaker 2: your family is the absence of a motive. If you 422 00:22:17,521 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 2: could understand that he'd seen Lauren before or knew somebody 423 00:22:20,961 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 2: who knew her or cut off in the traffic or something. 424 00:22:23,761 --> 00:22:26,521 Speaker 2: You know, you'd be able to begin the process of 425 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,281 Speaker 2: rationalizing it and accommodating that truth in your life. But 426 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,681 Speaker 2: to have he is literally a monster in your mind, I. 427 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:38,441 Speaker 6: Think, Lauren, Yes, yes, definitely, he'll always be a monster. 428 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,761 Speaker 1: After what I've gone through, and. 429 00:22:42,681 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 6: You know what I have to live with now, you 430 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,001 Speaker 6: know these scars and the injuries that I have. 431 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,281 Speaker 1: Like I said, that's a life sentence for Lauren. That's 432 00:22:51,281 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 1: her reality, it is, and then we have people to 433 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: put what her life is worth for what this person 434 00:22:56,441 --> 00:22:59,001 Speaker 1: did to her, and how long he should actually stay 435 00:22:59,001 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: where he needs to be. It's not easy thing to 436 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:03,041 Speaker 1: deal with. 437 00:23:03,761 --> 00:23:04,321 Speaker 4: It's really not. 438 00:23:04,481 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 2: And Lauren has had the physical and psychological injuries that 439 00:23:09,241 --> 00:23:13,961 Speaker 2: she still suffers with. You have that as well, simone would. 440 00:23:14,041 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 2: Your family was dealt a moral and psychological injury. You 441 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 2: struggle with it as well. You're a young woman, just 442 00:23:19,561 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 2: like Lauren was then, and it has not been easy 443 00:23:22,241 --> 00:23:24,041 Speaker 2: for you. Tell us about your journey. 444 00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:27,721 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was, definitely. It hasn't been the easy journey, 445 00:23:27,721 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 1: that's for sure. I was obviously, like I said, twenty 446 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,801 Speaker 1: one at a time, and you know, my world also 447 00:23:33,201 --> 00:23:37,321 Speaker 1: came crumbling down, and it was just such a it 448 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:39,761 Speaker 1: was just such a traumatic thing to go through. And 449 00:23:39,921 --> 00:23:41,721 Speaker 1: there's still days that I think, twenty years on, I 450 00:23:41,761 --> 00:23:43,921 Speaker 1: still pinch myself. I think, did that happen to our family? 451 00:23:44,201 --> 00:23:47,001 Speaker 1: You know, it's just it's just so surreal, and it's 452 00:23:47,001 --> 00:23:48,921 Speaker 1: so sill to be even talking to you today about 453 00:23:49,281 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 1: you know, what we went through, because we were just 454 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,401 Speaker 1: you know, young ladies, you know, adults going through our lives. 455 00:23:55,761 --> 00:23:58,961 Speaker 1: We used to still fight over clothes and talk about 456 00:23:59,001 --> 00:24:02,921 Speaker 1: boys and go on holidays together to foster family holidays 457 00:24:02,961 --> 00:24:04,481 Speaker 1: we used to go and you know, we're just living 458 00:24:04,561 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: our best life lives. Then it just it all changed 459 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 1: an instant. You know, that day forever changed the direction 460 00:24:10,961 --> 00:24:15,241 Speaker 1: of our lives. Obviously, Lawrence, in particularly, I do struggle. 461 00:24:15,281 --> 00:24:17,121 Speaker 1: I have struggled and I still do to this day 462 00:24:17,281 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: with PTSD. Watching someone you love fight for their life. 463 00:24:23,921 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: It was it was just so hard, you know, it 464 00:24:28,281 --> 00:24:31,521 Speaker 1: was just so hard to watch you know, her lay 465 00:24:31,521 --> 00:24:36,801 Speaker 1: there just so you know, defenseless and just siding. I 466 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 1: was on life support and in a coma for twenty 467 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,681 Speaker 1: three days. Yeah, yeah, and that was so hard to see, 468 00:24:42,681 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: and you just didn't know day to day what you 469 00:24:45,281 --> 00:24:46,841 Speaker 1: know the news was going to be. Was she going 470 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: to make her We're going to get the phone call 471 00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:51,761 Speaker 1: saying she's passed. You know, I just couldn't even try 472 00:24:51,921 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: to imagine my life without my sister. I just couldn't, 473 00:24:54,761 --> 00:24:57,761 Speaker 1: especially ending that way. You know, when she walked out 474 00:24:57,801 --> 00:25:00,481 Speaker 1: of the house that morning on the night for November 475 00:25:00,921 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, she was going to Tafe 476 00:25:03,681 --> 00:25:06,001 Speaker 1: and going to do a speech day, and I said 477 00:25:06,001 --> 00:25:08,400 Speaker 1: to her, good luck clause I love you. She goes, thanks, 478 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: SIM love you, and she walked out the door, and 479 00:25:11,281 --> 00:25:12,841 Speaker 1: little did I know that may have been the last 480 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,360 Speaker 1: time I would have ever seen her life. So, you know, 481 00:25:15,481 --> 00:25:17,561 Speaker 1: it plays on my mind, it has. It's not just 482 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,161 Speaker 1: that Pard, it's the whole journey then of watching her 483 00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:24,360 Speaker 1: having to relive and like I said, like watching a 484 00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:27,360 Speaker 1: baby be reborn. She couldn't eat for three months, learning 485 00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:30,321 Speaker 1: how to walk, talk again, all these things, and still 486 00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 1: not knowing what her future was going to be. And 487 00:25:32,201 --> 00:25:34,201 Speaker 1: you know, Mum and Dad's focus was completely on her, 488 00:25:34,241 --> 00:25:37,801 Speaker 1: which is totally understandable. You know, we all broke at times, 489 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,041 Speaker 1: and we were all there to pick each other up 490 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,401 Speaker 1: when we did. But I was craving. I needed attention 491 00:25:44,481 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: as well, you know, kissing a self which way that sounds, 492 00:25:46,441 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 1: but I was struggling mentally. I was so young as well, 493 00:25:49,761 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: and you know, like I said, life just went the 494 00:25:52,241 --> 00:25:56,041 Speaker 1: complete different direction over the years. I've still to this day, 495 00:25:56,041 --> 00:25:59,201 Speaker 1: I've done you know, PTSD courses. You know, I take 496 00:25:59,241 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: medication for anxiety and depression in resulting to PTSD. I've 497 00:26:03,561 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 1: seen multiple psycho a psychiatrists trying to heal the tron 498 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: because it doesn't ever leave you. You just learn how to 499 00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:13,721 Speaker 1: live with it. Unfortunately, I still suffer with the mental scars. 500 00:26:13,761 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: But you know, I've got to be the best I 501 00:26:15,481 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: can because I am a wife and a mother and 502 00:26:18,201 --> 00:26:20,241 Speaker 1: I need to be the best version of myself for 503 00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: my children moving forward. But I guess people probably don't 504 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: see that side of what then, how it impacts the 505 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: families obviously as well as a victim, and the ongoing 506 00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: effects that will continue on probably for the rest of 507 00:26:32,961 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: our lives. 508 00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:35,880 Speaker 2: I should have got your husband on here to make 509 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,961 Speaker 2: sure that he's doing his duty in the situation. Yes, 510 00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:40,761 Speaker 2: looking after you as best to get and I'm sure 511 00:26:40,761 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 2: it's hard for him too, because there are probably days 512 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,321 Speaker 2: where you don't want to talk about it, and here 513 00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:46,360 Speaker 2: we are talking about it, and I can see the 514 00:26:46,441 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 2: emotions are close to the surface with you, the happy memories, 515 00:26:49,561 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 2: you smile, you beam, and the difficult ones I can 516 00:26:52,521 --> 00:26:54,761 Speaker 2: see you go straight back into yourself, and these triggers 517 00:26:54,761 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 2: are still. 518 00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:56,681 Speaker 4: Then you've got to work through these triggers. 519 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,041 Speaker 2: And so this whole parole issue, and this is when 520 00:27:01,041 --> 00:27:03,561 Speaker 2: you're talking about PTSD. I've talked about it with serviceman, 521 00:27:03,961 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 2: police officers, even criminals themselves, and it's often the institutional things, 522 00:27:09,481 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 2: the lack of support, the failure to acknowledge people suffering 523 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,401 Speaker 2: that actually is a trigger for the PTSD. So this 524 00:27:16,521 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 2: dehumanizing process of parole where there's animal, let's call him 525 00:27:20,561 --> 00:27:22,481 Speaker 2: what he is, actually animals too nice for him is 526 00:27:22,521 --> 00:27:23,121 Speaker 2: a germ. 527 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:24,921 Speaker 4: This germ may. 528 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,481 Speaker 2: Get his freedom again, I think would be a significant trigger, 529 00:27:27,681 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 2: and you need to be prepared for that. Even if 530 00:27:30,041 --> 00:27:34,521 Speaker 2: it's not this year, in four years time, can they hold. 531 00:27:34,321 --> 00:27:38,121 Speaker 1: Him, well, that's a question for the parole I don't 532 00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:40,281 Speaker 1: think that would be the case. There is a thing 533 00:27:40,561 --> 00:27:45,241 Speaker 1: called Serious Offenders Order and they can monitor him after 534 00:27:45,281 --> 00:27:48,281 Speaker 1: his full sentence. But that is a lot that we 535 00:27:48,281 --> 00:27:50,401 Speaker 1: would have to go through as well. Again, like you said, 536 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 1: it's triggering. Right here we are, you know, twenty years on. 537 00:27:53,921 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 1: Lauren's doing amazing, obviously, so proud of her and the 538 00:27:58,201 --> 00:28:01,521 Speaker 1: way that she's handled everything with such grace. But you know, 539 00:28:01,681 --> 00:28:03,241 Speaker 1: we put it to bed for quite a long time 540 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,281 Speaker 1: knowing that he was where he needed to and we 541 00:28:06,281 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: were safe, and not just ask but the community, the 542 00:28:08,681 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: general public. You know, it's a fear for them having 543 00:28:11,681 --> 00:28:16,360 Speaker 1: him coming up to being possibly released. And now obviously, 544 00:28:16,481 --> 00:28:17,801 Speaker 1: you know, like I said, twenty years was like a 545 00:28:17,801 --> 00:28:19,521 Speaker 1: long time, and I remember when you were sentence. I thought, 546 00:28:19,521 --> 00:28:21,921 Speaker 1: oh that's ages away. You know, Well, here we are 547 00:28:22,041 --> 00:28:25,120 Speaker 1: and it feels like yesterday, and now it's upon us again. 548 00:28:25,241 --> 00:28:27,521 Speaker 1: You know, here we go again with the trauma being 549 00:28:27,561 --> 00:28:30,641 Speaker 1: rehashed again, having to fight, like you know, to put 550 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,281 Speaker 1: our submissions into the parole, to have to try as 551 00:28:34,281 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 1: best we can try to keep him where he needs 552 00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: to be for the remaining of his sentence, and then, 553 00:28:38,481 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: like you said, every year, possibly going through this again 554 00:28:42,121 --> 00:28:46,481 Speaker 1: and again. It's it's it's so debilitating. 555 00:28:46,961 --> 00:28:49,801 Speaker 2: Unfortunately the reality is that just about all of our 556 00:28:49,841 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 2: inmates will be released into society event. That is the 557 00:28:54,201 --> 00:28:58,081 Speaker 2: aim of the system to find a way to release them. Yep, 558 00:28:58,521 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 2: but this would have to come with significant controls. You 559 00:29:01,201 --> 00:29:05,521 Speaker 2: talk about electronic monitoring, you talk about the possible of 560 00:29:05,561 --> 00:29:10,721 Speaker 2: family support and monitoring to make sure that whatever loose 561 00:29:10,761 --> 00:29:13,201 Speaker 2: screw in his head that caused him to do this 562 00:29:13,321 --> 00:29:17,081 Speaker 2: back in the day does not happen again. And to 563 00:29:17,121 --> 00:29:20,401 Speaker 2: that extent, it is a story about two families, and 564 00:29:20,441 --> 00:29:22,961 Speaker 2: I was reading preparing for this intervening. I noticed that 565 00:29:23,321 --> 00:29:26,201 Speaker 2: when he came for his sentencing, his family wasn't there. 566 00:29:27,121 --> 00:29:30,641 Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, his mum was, no, not for the sentencing. 567 00:29:30,761 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: She was there just to hear the summary of before 568 00:29:34,161 --> 00:29:36,561 Speaker 1: he was fund guilty, but she didn't come back to 569 00:29:36,601 --> 00:29:39,641 Speaker 1: hear the verdict. So yeah, I don't think he had 570 00:29:39,721 --> 00:29:42,681 Speaker 1: much support there. And again, if he comes out, you know, 571 00:29:43,041 --> 00:29:45,321 Speaker 1: he possibly has to go and live with family, if 572 00:29:45,321 --> 00:29:47,601 Speaker 1: he's got you know, any or friends that will take 573 00:29:47,641 --> 00:29:51,161 Speaker 1: him in, you know, and that's part of his parole conditions. Yeah. 574 00:29:51,281 --> 00:29:54,521 Speaker 1: It's just you know, it's something unfortunately that we have 575 00:29:54,561 --> 00:29:56,201 Speaker 1: to go through again as a family, and we will 576 00:29:56,201 --> 00:29:58,681 Speaker 1: get through it because you know, we've been through. 577 00:29:58,601 --> 00:30:01,761 Speaker 6: Worse yeah, And I just want to say this is 578 00:30:01,801 --> 00:30:07,081 Speaker 6: that I'm very worried, not only for myself, for my family, friends, 579 00:30:07,201 --> 00:30:11,081 Speaker 6: but also the general public that he could be eligible 580 00:30:11,441 --> 00:30:13,241 Speaker 6: to be released in July. 581 00:30:13,761 --> 00:30:16,201 Speaker 1: Do you know, I mean it doesn't make sense. 582 00:30:16,441 --> 00:30:21,041 Speaker 2: No, it really doesn't. And I think he could well 583 00:30:21,081 --> 00:30:23,721 Speaker 2: be a powder keg waiting to go off. I mean, 584 00:30:23,881 --> 00:30:27,001 Speaker 2: he's a person who never accepted his guilt, who continues 585 00:30:27,081 --> 00:30:30,481 Speaker 2: to profess his innocence to the point of a pathological disbelief, 586 00:30:31,361 --> 00:30:34,201 Speaker 2: I suspect. So what's he like when he's coming out? 587 00:30:34,521 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 2: And again, I hope that when it does happen, and 588 00:30:37,241 --> 00:30:42,241 Speaker 2: it probably will eventually, there is adequate consultation with your family. 589 00:30:42,761 --> 00:30:45,081 Speaker 2: So some of these questions are not a mystery to you, 590 00:30:45,561 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 2: what his state of mind is. 591 00:30:47,121 --> 00:30:50,241 Speaker 4: Where he will be, will he be anywhere near. 592 00:30:50,521 --> 00:30:53,361 Speaker 2: Your residences today, these sorts of basic questions. I'm not 593 00:30:53,401 --> 00:30:54,481 Speaker 2: sure that it's automatic. 594 00:30:55,801 --> 00:30:58,521 Speaker 1: Yeah, we have asked those hard questions, and we can 595 00:30:58,561 --> 00:31:01,681 Speaker 1: put in obviously exclusion zones where he can and can't go. 596 00:31:02,241 --> 00:31:05,841 Speaker 1: He will be monitored with ankle bracelet. You will obviously, 597 00:31:05,921 --> 00:31:09,041 Speaker 1: you know, eventually be released into the community. And that's 598 00:31:09,041 --> 00:31:12,441 Speaker 1: a concern. The thing that I find difficult is there's 599 00:31:12,441 --> 00:31:15,161 Speaker 1: no support for the victims and their families, you know, 600 00:31:15,561 --> 00:31:18,761 Speaker 1: especially even after Lauren left hospital, it was basically off 601 00:31:18,801 --> 00:31:21,161 Speaker 1: you go on your own. There was you know, no 602 00:31:21,321 --> 00:31:23,441 Speaker 1: NDS funding back in the day, like to give her 603 00:31:23,681 --> 00:31:26,361 Speaker 1: psychology or anything anything like that. Anything we've ever had 604 00:31:26,401 --> 00:31:28,761 Speaker 1: to do is being offer and back, you know. And 605 00:31:28,801 --> 00:31:31,041 Speaker 1: I really think that there needs to be more support 606 00:31:31,401 --> 00:31:34,081 Speaker 1: for people that go through these traumatic experiences. It's through 607 00:31:34,081 --> 00:31:36,481 Speaker 1: no fault of their own, and especially when it comes 608 00:31:36,521 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: up to parole and that sort of thing. You know, 609 00:31:38,881 --> 00:31:41,281 Speaker 1: why isn't that people help trying to help the victim. 610 00:31:41,721 --> 00:31:42,641 Speaker 1: I don't understand it. 611 00:31:43,601 --> 00:31:46,001 Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole system seems to tilt towards the offender 612 00:31:46,121 --> 00:31:50,361 Speaker 2: in these situations. But paradoxically, I think the lack of 613 00:31:50,401 --> 00:31:54,321 Speaker 2: support has meant that your family and Lauren in particular, 614 00:31:55,361 --> 00:31:57,881 Speaker 2: you've had to do it yourself. And I think the 615 00:31:57,921 --> 00:32:00,961 Speaker 2: best revenge is living well. And when I was talking 616 00:32:00,961 --> 00:32:04,081 Speaker 2: to the other day, I was surprised Lauren how light 617 00:32:04,281 --> 00:32:07,921 Speaker 2: you are, and how your sense of humor, your hopes 618 00:32:07,921 --> 00:32:10,561 Speaker 2: for the future, they're all there. You're not daunted by 619 00:32:10,601 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 2: these things. 620 00:32:12,081 --> 00:32:15,601 Speaker 6: Yeah, No, I always like to keep positive and you know, 621 00:32:15,801 --> 00:32:18,281 Speaker 6: I can say this like, I mean, hey, I've got 622 00:32:18,361 --> 00:32:22,681 Speaker 6: scars and the bald spot, I've got lots of things 623 00:32:23,081 --> 00:32:27,081 Speaker 6: wrong with my face, particularly, but you know what, at 624 00:32:27,121 --> 00:32:29,921 Speaker 6: the end of the day, no one's perfect, and I 625 00:32:29,961 --> 00:32:32,041 Speaker 6: always like to keep on the right side of life 626 00:32:32,321 --> 00:32:35,041 Speaker 6: and as positive as I possibly can be, because you 627 00:32:35,081 --> 00:32:38,361 Speaker 6: know what it really, I mean, I could have lost 628 00:32:38,401 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 6: my limbs. You know, I'm just so thankful to be 629 00:32:41,761 --> 00:32:43,761 Speaker 6: able to do these simple things like talk, walk and eat, 630 00:32:44,201 --> 00:32:44,801 Speaker 6: you know what I mean. 631 00:32:44,921 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: Like, it's shocking. What's happening is shocking. It's very bad. 632 00:32:50,001 --> 00:32:53,441 Speaker 6: And I don't I don't want to like say anything 633 00:32:53,521 --> 00:32:53,801 Speaker 6: like that. 634 00:32:54,521 --> 00:32:56,281 Speaker 1: I can I say, I just you never want you 635 00:32:56,321 --> 00:32:58,601 Speaker 1: want to feel sorry for you? That's what you want. Yeah, No, exactly, 636 00:32:59,201 --> 00:32:59,881 Speaker 1: that's exactly. 637 00:33:00,121 --> 00:33:00,321 Speaker 4: Yeah. 638 00:33:00,401 --> 00:33:01,961 Speaker 1: You just wanted to get on with your life. 639 00:33:02,041 --> 00:33:06,681 Speaker 6: And yeah, and I just want to keep looking forward. 640 00:33:05,441 --> 00:33:08,001 Speaker 1: Be grateful that you're still here, and you know, make 641 00:33:08,041 --> 00:33:09,921 Speaker 1: the most of it. You know, we get one chance 642 00:33:09,921 --> 00:33:13,601 Speaker 1: of life. Lauren thankfully was given a second chance. Oh yeah, definitely. 643 00:33:13,801 --> 00:33:16,321 Speaker 1: The fact that you know, that's down to many people 644 00:33:16,401 --> 00:33:18,361 Speaker 1: from the first responders like to do, Like I said, 645 00:33:18,361 --> 00:33:23,281 Speaker 1: the incredible stuff at Weysboend Hospital. Yeah, but also Lauren's 646 00:33:23,361 --> 00:33:27,761 Speaker 1: will to fight and her will to live and determination 647 00:33:27,841 --> 00:33:30,801 Speaker 1: which she is very determined that as support of family 648 00:33:30,841 --> 00:33:33,361 Speaker 1: and friends, I think also played a part of it. 649 00:33:33,361 --> 00:33:36,001 Speaker 1: It was you know, it was a team effort, definitely. 650 00:33:36,201 --> 00:33:40,161 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, unbelievable. And I think you've gotten past 651 00:33:40,201 --> 00:33:42,521 Speaker 2: the stage of just learning to eat, walk and talk 652 00:33:42,601 --> 00:33:45,561 Speaker 2: and this type of thing. You're now you want to 653 00:33:45,561 --> 00:33:48,121 Speaker 2: be a speaker. Now you've got a story to tell 654 00:33:48,161 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 2: other people. 655 00:33:49,921 --> 00:33:54,081 Speaker 6: Yeah, I do, And I really hope in the talk 656 00:33:54,121 --> 00:33:59,841 Speaker 6: that I do inspire others with my experience. I'm happy 657 00:33:59,881 --> 00:34:02,281 Speaker 6: to tell them, tell them a lot of what I 658 00:34:02,321 --> 00:34:06,601 Speaker 6: went through and. 659 00:34:05,321 --> 00:34:06,401 Speaker 1: And how you got through it all. 660 00:34:06,601 --> 00:34:10,401 Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, ladies, I'm seeing a double act here. 661 00:34:10,521 --> 00:34:12,401 Speaker 2: I think you both should get up there and talk. 662 00:34:12,441 --> 00:34:14,441 Speaker 2: And I think this it could be a big smile 663 00:34:14,481 --> 00:34:18,081 Speaker 2: on Simone's face now I can see that that this 664 00:34:18,161 --> 00:34:20,321 Speaker 2: should be a part of your healing as well, My dear. 665 00:34:20,401 --> 00:34:22,801 Speaker 2: You should be telling because I think that's the part 666 00:34:22,801 --> 00:34:25,841 Speaker 2: of the issue, and we've touched on this, is that 667 00:34:26,161 --> 00:34:30,641 Speaker 2: a lot of focus necessarily goes on Simone, but you're 668 00:34:30,641 --> 00:34:33,961 Speaker 2: also there and your journey with her is one that 669 00:34:34,041 --> 00:34:36,921 Speaker 2: I think a lot of people in your shoes would 670 00:34:36,921 --> 00:34:37,561 Speaker 2: also want to hear. 671 00:34:37,601 --> 00:34:38,721 Speaker 4: So are we going to see Double Act? 672 00:34:39,801 --> 00:34:43,041 Speaker 1: Well? Yeah, actually we are doing a public speaking event 673 00:34:43,201 --> 00:34:45,241 Speaker 1: a couple coming up which have been approached to do, 674 00:34:45,321 --> 00:34:48,001 Speaker 1: which it should be nice, you know, to tell our 675 00:34:48,041 --> 00:34:52,081 Speaker 1: story as sisters and what it means for us from 676 00:34:52,201 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: you know, when we were young to what our life 677 00:34:54,001 --> 00:34:56,961 Speaker 1: now looks like. And you know, Lauren, being the doating 678 00:34:57,041 --> 00:34:59,401 Speaker 1: artie that she is, we have been asked to talk 679 00:34:59,481 --> 00:35:02,361 Speaker 1: to her International Women's Day coming up, which I am 680 00:35:02,401 --> 00:35:06,401 Speaker 1: super proud to stand beside my sister help share her story, 681 00:35:06,761 --> 00:35:09,121 Speaker 1: but also you know you touch on mine a bit, 682 00:35:09,321 --> 00:35:13,041 Speaker 1: the journey that it takes the families through as well. 683 00:35:13,481 --> 00:35:15,681 Speaker 1: Why not after twenty years. I think we're both strong 684 00:35:15,761 --> 00:35:17,721 Speaker 1: enough to talk about it now, and I think it's 685 00:35:17,721 --> 00:35:19,921 Speaker 1: an important conversation that has to be hard, you know, 686 00:35:20,121 --> 00:35:24,121 Speaker 1: talking about women and empowering women, but also Lauren inspiring others. 687 00:35:24,281 --> 00:35:26,201 Speaker 1: But you know, let's talk about there is a lot 688 00:35:26,201 --> 00:35:30,401 Speaker 1: of unfortunate violence against women, domestic violence. Things need to 689 00:35:30,481 --> 00:35:32,961 Speaker 1: change then, needs to do better, support systems put in 690 00:35:33,041 --> 00:35:37,321 Speaker 1: place and you know, strong but tougher laws and you know, 691 00:35:37,521 --> 00:35:40,241 Speaker 1: to stop these things from happening. So I'm looking forward 692 00:35:40,281 --> 00:35:42,481 Speaker 1: to doing this alongside my sister. 693 00:35:43,721 --> 00:35:45,681 Speaker 2: I can't wait to see what you guys do because 694 00:35:45,841 --> 00:35:49,401 Speaker 2: doing this podcast for the last year, my inbox almost 695 00:35:49,481 --> 00:35:54,681 Speaker 2: every week has stories from women who've suffered violence in marriage, 696 00:35:54,801 --> 00:35:57,601 Speaker 2: out of marriage, random attacks, you name it. 697 00:35:57,681 --> 00:35:59,601 Speaker 4: And women are not protected. They're not safe. 698 00:35:59,641 --> 00:36:02,081 Speaker 2: The system does not look after them, the court system 699 00:36:02,121 --> 00:36:06,121 Speaker 2: doesn't And I think that resilience that you guys have 700 00:36:06,201 --> 00:36:10,601 Speaker 2: shown is inspirational to people out there. And I think 701 00:36:10,641 --> 00:36:14,081 Speaker 2: people are going to deeply empathize with you when they 702 00:36:14,161 --> 00:36:18,041 Speaker 2: learn that farmer is back on the streets and you're 703 00:36:18,041 --> 00:36:20,881 Speaker 2: going to have to adjust to that reality. Have you 704 00:36:20,921 --> 00:36:23,361 Speaker 2: thought much about that, Lauren? Are you going to change 705 00:36:23,401 --> 00:36:25,561 Speaker 2: anything in your life? Or you're just going to continue 706 00:36:25,601 --> 00:36:26,281 Speaker 2: doing what you're doing? 707 00:36:26,961 --> 00:36:29,881 Speaker 6: Ah? Yeah, I think I'll just continue to do what 708 00:36:29,961 --> 00:36:31,601 Speaker 6: I'm what I've been doing. 709 00:36:32,361 --> 00:36:34,681 Speaker 1: He's not going to stop you, no ways. 710 00:36:35,001 --> 00:36:37,681 Speaker 6: No, I've come so far, you know what I mean, 711 00:36:37,881 --> 00:36:40,681 Speaker 6: And there's nothing stuff for me now, that's right. So 712 00:36:41,121 --> 00:36:44,441 Speaker 6: you know what I went through a lot before, but 713 00:36:44,761 --> 00:36:51,201 Speaker 6: you know, rehabilitation, you know, talking walking, eating, and recovery. 714 00:36:52,001 --> 00:36:54,801 Speaker 1: But now I'm just going to live my life. 715 00:36:55,241 --> 00:36:59,081 Speaker 4: The way I want to in these kind of interviews. 716 00:36:59,201 --> 00:37:02,121 Speaker 2: At this point, what jumps into my mind is the 717 00:37:02,201 --> 00:37:05,361 Speaker 2: question of forgiveness. But I think forgiveness has to come 718 00:37:05,401 --> 00:37:09,561 Speaker 2: with insight, and how can you extend any kind of 719 00:37:09,561 --> 00:37:11,881 Speaker 2: mercy forgiveness to him if he's not shown you the 720 00:37:11,961 --> 00:37:14,361 Speaker 2: very basics of that as well, to say that yes, 721 00:37:14,401 --> 00:37:16,841 Speaker 2: I did this, Yes I took this from you, this 722 00:37:16,881 --> 00:37:21,081 Speaker 2: is how I will atone And I don't see a 723 00:37:21,241 --> 00:37:26,161 Speaker 2: situation where someone can get parole ever they don't do 724 00:37:26,241 --> 00:37:26,801 Speaker 2: those things. 725 00:37:27,921 --> 00:37:31,881 Speaker 1: Yeah, completely agree, So I guess, Yeah, let's see what happens. 726 00:37:31,881 --> 00:37:35,401 Speaker 1: But yeah, he should not be given parole without having 727 00:37:35,521 --> 00:37:40,681 Speaker 1: any form of accountability for his horrific crimes. Yeah, it's 728 00:37:40,721 --> 00:37:43,241 Speaker 1: being belief even to think about. But at the end 729 00:37:43,241 --> 00:37:46,361 Speaker 1: of the day, we have to deal with it as 730 00:37:46,361 --> 00:37:49,001 Speaker 1: best we can moving forward as a family. Yes, it 731 00:37:49,001 --> 00:37:51,641 Speaker 1: will be concerning and obviously a worry if he is 732 00:37:51,721 --> 00:37:54,761 Speaker 1: to walk amongst us again. It's not fair, but it 733 00:37:54,801 --> 00:37:57,601 Speaker 1: is what it is, and let's hope that he will 734 00:37:57,601 --> 00:37:59,801 Speaker 1: get knocked back and try to do better. You know, 735 00:38:00,081 --> 00:38:02,361 Speaker 1: I do believe you know, there is a system for 736 00:38:02,361 --> 00:38:04,921 Speaker 1: a reason, and I appreciate that you know the way 737 00:38:05,081 --> 00:38:08,081 Speaker 1: the parole works and whatnot, But I do think some 738 00:38:08,321 --> 00:38:11,041 Speaker 1: you know, criminals can be rubilitated. You know, you'd like 739 00:38:11,121 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: to think so and hope and do better, But then 740 00:38:13,601 --> 00:38:15,641 Speaker 1: you come to this one and, like you said, had 741 00:38:15,681 --> 00:38:18,321 Speaker 1: no condition or guilt, and it doesn't seem to be 742 00:38:18,361 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: doing anything positive behind bars to be able to try 743 00:38:23,161 --> 00:38:25,161 Speaker 1: to get back into society and live a normal life 744 00:38:25,321 --> 00:38:27,881 Speaker 1: and do better. You know, you hope that he will 745 00:38:27,921 --> 00:38:31,001 Speaker 1: and just leave people alone and not hurt anybody anymore. 746 00:38:31,601 --> 00:38:33,961 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm reminded of a story now as we speak. 747 00:38:34,281 --> 00:38:36,481 Speaker 2: A contact of mine who I was very close to, 748 00:38:36,801 --> 00:38:39,161 Speaker 2: gave evidence against her partner, who was an outlaw biky 749 00:38:39,641 --> 00:38:41,761 Speaker 2: and she was in witness protection for five years. 750 00:38:42,161 --> 00:38:43,961 Speaker 4: He was held on light charges. 751 00:38:44,001 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 2: He ends up getting parole, and there is a god 752 00:38:47,601 --> 00:38:49,641 Speaker 2: because he came out and discovered he was riddled with 753 00:38:49,681 --> 00:38:51,361 Speaker 2: cancer and died three months after. 754 00:38:51,841 --> 00:38:53,281 Speaker 4: I'm going to say, you got his right whack. 755 00:38:53,601 --> 00:38:55,641 Speaker 2: I don't wish ill on farm, I don't wish ill 756 00:38:55,681 --> 00:38:59,281 Speaker 2: on anybody, but you deserve protection. You deserve a fair 757 00:38:59,321 --> 00:39:02,641 Speaker 2: go from the parole system to make sure if he 758 00:39:02,841 --> 00:39:06,121 Speaker 2: does hit the bricks again, but you know exactly his 759 00:39:06,281 --> 00:39:09,041 Speaker 2: whereabouts and the risk to you is minimized. 760 00:39:09,761 --> 00:39:12,601 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I think that's the least that they can 761 00:39:12,641 --> 00:39:15,641 Speaker 1: do in this situation to make us aware of his 762 00:39:16,001 --> 00:39:20,561 Speaker 1: you know, whereabouts. And yeah, it's just I don't even 763 00:39:20,601 --> 00:39:22,441 Speaker 1: have the words, to be honest, like how we are 764 00:39:22,481 --> 00:39:26,361 Speaker 1: feeling about it. It's heavy, it's a lot. It's just 765 00:39:26,561 --> 00:39:30,761 Speaker 1: you know, I, you know, I have struggle with you know, 766 00:39:30,881 --> 00:39:33,161 Speaker 1: sleeping and that sort of thing. Try not to think 767 00:39:33,201 --> 00:39:36,961 Speaker 1: about it, obviously, but you know it's yeah, it's not easy. 768 00:39:37,601 --> 00:39:38,961 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's not Lauren. 769 00:39:39,161 --> 00:39:42,561 Speaker 2: Just finally, what's your message to other women out there 770 00:39:42,841 --> 00:39:46,721 Speaker 2: who are facing the possibility of their attackers, their offenders 771 00:39:47,161 --> 00:39:51,281 Speaker 2: coming out of jail. Your aura is so strong and 772 00:39:51,321 --> 00:39:55,041 Speaker 2: so inspirational. What can you give other women who are 773 00:39:55,401 --> 00:39:59,161 Speaker 2: in a similar position of fear and trepidation about a parole. 774 00:40:00,121 --> 00:40:01,041 Speaker 1: That's a hard question. 775 00:40:02,481 --> 00:40:06,161 Speaker 6: Just to stay strong, maybe, Yeah, stay strong and come 776 00:40:06,521 --> 00:40:11,441 Speaker 6: and just you know, go on with your own life 777 00:40:12,481 --> 00:40:16,881 Speaker 6: and take care of themselves, you know, mentally and emotionally obviously, Yeah, 778 00:40:16,921 --> 00:40:19,241 Speaker 6: of course, and have that you know, hopefully I have 779 00:40:19,281 --> 00:40:21,321 Speaker 6: a lot of love and support around them to protect 780 00:40:21,321 --> 00:40:24,841 Speaker 6: them in that space. It is really important, and you 781 00:40:24,961 --> 00:40:27,601 Speaker 6: just hope that the parole system does the right thing 782 00:40:27,681 --> 00:40:30,001 Speaker 6: by not just Lauren and my family, but for other 783 00:40:30,041 --> 00:40:32,601 Speaker 6: people that are in similar situations. 784 00:40:33,001 --> 00:40:36,041 Speaker 1: You know, it needs to be about the victim and 785 00:40:36,081 --> 00:40:40,681 Speaker 1: not the perpetrator, and sometimes it does seem to be 786 00:40:40,761 --> 00:40:43,481 Speaker 1: the way around, which doesn't sit well with me at all. 787 00:40:44,361 --> 00:40:44,881 Speaker 4: That's right. 788 00:40:44,961 --> 00:40:47,161 Speaker 2: Well, ladies, it's been an honor and a privilege to 789 00:40:47,201 --> 00:40:49,001 Speaker 2: talk to you. And as I said before the I 790 00:40:49,121 --> 00:40:51,161 Speaker 2: was quite nervous and you put me at ease, and 791 00:40:51,401 --> 00:40:53,481 Speaker 2: I just I love your energy, I love your teamwork, 792 00:40:53,521 --> 00:40:54,281 Speaker 2: I love your family. 793 00:40:54,521 --> 00:40:57,841 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks Adam. We love you to really appreciate 794 00:40:57,921 --> 00:41:01,361 Speaker 1: the opportunity to share, you know, Lauren and my family 795 00:41:01,401 --> 00:41:05,161 Speaker 1: story and to hope that something good will come. I'm 796 00:41:05,161 --> 00:41:09,201 Speaker 1: out of this and you know, speaking up, you know, 797 00:41:09,481 --> 00:41:13,801 Speaker 1: showing you our vulnerabilities and sharing our voices to you know, 798 00:41:13,921 --> 00:41:16,681 Speaker 1: let's hope that things might change. Like I said, not 799 00:41:16,721 --> 00:41:20,921 Speaker 1: just for our family, but for others. You know, Yeah, something's. 800 00:41:20,521 --> 00:41:23,161 Speaker 2: Got to give, something's got to give, and it's the 801 00:41:23,201 --> 00:41:25,561 Speaker 2: offender that has to give more in this case. Ladies, 802 00:41:25,641 --> 00:41:28,201 Speaker 2: thank you so much for your time. We'll stay in 803 00:41:28,241 --> 00:41:30,081 Speaker 2: touch with you and if you need any more advice. 804 00:41:30,481 --> 00:41:32,321 Speaker 2: My lovely son and Lord tangy. Well, I'm ware of 805 00:41:32,481 --> 00:41:35,641 Speaker 2: some be legal will be there in a flash. 806 00:41:34,441 --> 00:41:39,641 Speaker 1: He's amazing. We really appreciate all that. Lauren. You want 807 00:41:39,641 --> 00:41:41,641 Speaker 1: to say one thing you always like to say. 808 00:41:41,961 --> 00:41:44,721 Speaker 6: The pleasure in life is doing what other people say 809 00:41:44,761 --> 00:41:45,401 Speaker 6: you can't do. 810 00:41:45,601 --> 00:41:48,041 Speaker 1: Lauren's always stood by that, and you know it's amazing 811 00:41:48,081 --> 00:41:50,401 Speaker 1: her attitude and goes to show why she's still here, 812 00:41:50,401 --> 00:41:51,041 Speaker 1: standing strong. 813 00:41:55,081 --> 00:41:59,161 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's Lauren Huxley and Simone Gibson's sisters, steadfast supporters 814 00:41:59,201 --> 00:42:02,601 Speaker 2: of each other as they go into this very uncertain, 815 00:42:02,881 --> 00:42:03,721 Speaker 2: dangerous time. 816 00:42:04,361 --> 00:42:08,761 Speaker 4: When Robert Black Farmer may get parole, I don't. 817 00:42:08,561 --> 00:42:10,961 Speaker 2: Think he will personally if there's any justice to this, 818 00:42:11,041 --> 00:42:13,081 Speaker 2: and I think the system has to change. I have 819 00:42:13,081 --> 00:42:15,641 Speaker 2: to look at the conditions of parole. It is changing, 820 00:42:16,201 --> 00:42:18,601 Speaker 2: but boy, what about some life sentences for people who've 821 00:42:18,641 --> 00:42:21,801 Speaker 2: had a callous disregard for not just the victim but 822 00:42:21,841 --> 00:42:24,081 Speaker 2: their families, this type of thing. I mean, we even 823 00:42:24,081 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 2: talk about people going into capital punishment for these sorts 824 00:42:26,481 --> 00:42:28,681 Speaker 2: of crimes. I'm not sure we get to that stage. 825 00:42:28,721 --> 00:42:32,361 Speaker 2: But I think longer sentences, much tougher parole is the 826 00:42:32,441 --> 00:42:36,441 Speaker 2: basic that people expect, and that's what I think should happen. 827 00:42:36,721 --> 00:42:39,241 Speaker 2: If you've had some experiences with something similar, or you've 828 00:42:39,241 --> 00:42:42,081 Speaker 2: got some thoughts to share, please get in touch Adam Shander. 829 00:42:41,761 --> 00:42:43,761 Speaker 4: Writer at gmail dot com. 830 00:42:44,001 --> 00:42:46,480 Speaker 2: I'm going to put some resources in the show notes here, 831 00:42:46,521 --> 00:42:50,281 Speaker 2: including there's a petition there which you can sign expressing 832 00:42:50,441 --> 00:42:55,041 Speaker 2: your opposition to Robert Black Farmer's possibility at parole. So 833 00:42:55,361 --> 00:43:00,241 Speaker 2: sign that get involved, don't be silent, be inspired by 834 00:43:00,281 --> 00:43:03,321 Speaker 2: what this miracle story offers for you in your life. 835 00:43:03,761 --> 00:43:06,481 Speaker 4: It's certainly inspired me. This has been Adam shann for 836 00:43:06,521 --> 00:43:07,721 Speaker 4: Real Crime. Thanks for listening.