1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: Good day, Thanks for listening to the show. This is 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: better than yesterday, making it better every week since twenty thirteen. 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: Mine Amsoshi Ginsburg, I'm very glad you're here. We are 4 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: playing because everyone's on a break. We're on a break, 5 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: You're on a Break'm gonna break. Everyone's on a break. 6 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: So we're playing a couple of highlights. But we're back 7 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: with fresh aps very very soon. So a couple of 8 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: highlights from twenty twenty four today A headline act, I 9 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: guess you could say, because my goodness is and big 10 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 1: names on the show today, some of the biggest we 11 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: actually had in the podcast of all the episodes, not 12 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: like the last year, but since the show started today 13 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: Danny Minoak, Elaine Dockitch and kicking off Michael klemm This, 14 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:42,599 Speaker 1: you know, incredibly familiar, recognizable, superstar Olympian is such an 15 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: incredible man. He and I talked a lot. We spoke 16 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: about winning, losing, navigating the weak spots, and the power 17 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: of preparation. 18 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 2: All my best races, and especially that one in the 19 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 2: relay in Sydney when I let off in the world 20 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 2: record is all that preparation's done. You know, everything is 21 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 2: in place and the only thing you can do is 22 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 2: just almost like with a racehorse, you just got to 23 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 2: open the gates and let it run, you know. And 24 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 2: I think the more you overthink and the more you 25 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,119 Speaker 2: try and follow certain queues and you don't really even 26 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 2: need to you know, like it's and you don't even 27 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 2: need to overemphasize effort. The effort's going to be that 28 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 2: you're in the race. In the Olympic Games, seventeen thousand 29 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: people there, you know, there's the common saying is that 30 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 2: you've run. 31 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 3: The race before it's even run. 32 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 2: So I did one hundred and fifty races in one 33 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,559 Speaker 2: calendar year, which was no one had ever really done 34 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 2: up to this up to that point. So by the 35 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 2: time I got up on the blocks in ninety eight 36 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 2: and ninety nine, for me, that. 37 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 3: Process became automatic. 38 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: So I had maybe three or four ques in the race, 39 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 2: and I didn't have to think about anything else. I 40 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 2: didn't have to think about, you know, my breathing pattern, 41 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 2: or my strokes or approaching the wall. Everything was just 42 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: you know, clicking. So I think, the better we can 43 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 2: get out of our mind, so to speak. And yeah, 44 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: just it was it just comes down to intuition and 45 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 2: you know what to do because you're probably swimming you know, 46 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 2: thirty forty fifty k's a week. So yeah, that was 47 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:09,399 Speaker 2: the key. 48 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: All the kind of stuff I need to think about, 49 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: which way my little thing has got to be as 50 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: it passes my hip, All that kind of stuff you 51 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: can't that's already in there. Yeah, and I can't adjust 52 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: it and nothing's going to change it. The thing I 53 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: can control and be aware of is regulating how much 54 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to Yeah, safe for me. 55 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 2: It's a sense of control too, because you're controlling a 56 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 2: movement with this fatigue setting in and you know your 57 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,399 Speaker 2: body's going you know it's going to happen. The key, 58 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 2: you know its Sometimes people get a shock if it 59 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 2: happens sooner, or if it doesn't happen a little if 60 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: it happens later. So it's more. My coach would always 61 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 2: talk about staying in control right up to you know, 62 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 2: when you're touch the wall. And you can even see 63 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 2: in races when they're close finishes. The people that lose 64 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 2: control in those last few strokes or start gasping for 65 00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 2: air or it's it's all about control. 66 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: I can't imagine. I mean, yeah, you're one of the 67 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: guys that you held a record for four years, so 68 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: you know what it is to win. But there's us 69 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: had one hundred and fifty races in a year. There 70 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: would have been a lot of them. You didn't win. 71 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: What's it like? You see how close they are? Like 72 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: there's length of it half a fingernail. Yeah, you'll lose 73 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: that by What does that do to you? 74 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 3: Well? 75 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: You know that was the for me. I had that, 76 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,119 Speaker 2: especially in Sydney. I had a roller coaster ride I won. 77 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 2: I had won two. 78 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 3: Gold medals by day four, you know I was and 79 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 3: two order records. 80 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 4: Are you even sleep? 81 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: How do you even relax and get your tree? 82 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 3: So I was rooming with him. 83 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 2: So we had five gold medals by day four of 84 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: the Olympic Games and five. 85 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 3: Five fluffy kangaroos as well. I actually thought we had 86 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 3: a silver on top of that too. 87 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: But if for me, and then day six came and 88 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 2: I had one hundred fly and you know I lost 89 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 2: by less than point one of a second. So if 90 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: you'd get credit, grab a stop watch and try and 91 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 2: stop it as fast as you can. Most people get 92 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: point eight point oh seven, you know, so it's faster 93 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: than your body can react. And you know, as you said, 94 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 2: I had the word record for a few years leading 95 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 2: into that event, when unbeaten for quite a few years, 96 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 2: and to lose that specific grace in front of your 97 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 2: home crowd, yeah, it was. 98 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 3: It was a tough one. And I've got a few mates, 99 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 3: and Daniel. 100 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 2: Kowalski, who we talk about the ones that got away 101 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 2: because they're not necessarily the ones we win, because they're 102 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 2: the ones that we kind. 103 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 3: Of they're the hardest ones to swallow. 104 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 2: And you know Daniel's experience in ninety six with Karen 105 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 2: coming out of the blocks in lane eight, and you know, 106 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 2: Daniel being the favorite to win that one, there was 107 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: a tough one for him as well. So sometimes initially 108 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 2: I thought we would my life look like it would 109 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 2: be any different, and ultimately I don't think so, and 110 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 2: I know it wouldn't be. But it's almost that it's 111 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 2: I don't know if self gratitude or if it's like 112 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 2: the ego that wants you to say, you know, I 113 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 2: wanted to be individual gold medalists in my home country, 114 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: but you know, I'm so grateful to have been part 115 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 2: of them. Probably one of the most famous relays of 116 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 2: all time in Australia and and I still get to 117 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 2: talk about it every four years or even not even 118 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 2: not more often. But it's an interesting question because that's 119 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: you trained for that, to be Olympic champion, and that 120 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 2: didn't happen for me. 121 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: What do you think you've learned about what it is 122 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: to to not get the thing you trained for, not 123 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: to get the thing? What can when it happens? What 124 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: can you do with that? 125 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 2: The hardest thing is knowing that your best would have 126 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 2: been good enough. And you know, Lars who beat me, 127 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 2: you know, didn't beat my world record. It was a 128 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 2: little bit off. So that was the hardest thing. And 129 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 2: that's where resilience comes from, you know. And I think 130 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 2: my whole sporting career was built on pushing my envelope 131 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 2: because I wasn't the big I wasn't the you know, 132 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 2: even the DNA results show that I wasn't the most 133 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 2: physically gifted or mentally gifted either in terms of sports. 134 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: So for me, I had to find resources on how 135 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 2: to simp fastest, so technology, using the suits, swimming in 136 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 2: a different way, so I, you know, swim with straight arms, 137 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 2: you know, I preferred to some underwater that on top 138 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 2: of the water so and I think in train differently, 139 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 2: for example, doing those races and traveling the world. So 140 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 2: it was an example that I still had something to learn. 141 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 2: And unfortunately, you know, my career was sort of dubbed 142 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 2: by a lot of injuries after that. But mentally, I 143 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 2: knew that there was still other things that I could, 144 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 2: you know, tweak and learn from that race, which I 145 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 2: never got to execute. But that's how I would, you know, 146 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 2: even in life after sport, I was when I was 147 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: doing sales and knocking on the door of you know, 148 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 2: the hundreds of retailers and distributors. 149 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 3: I took that same approach out in the pool. 150 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 2: I had to continue to evolve and innovate, and I 151 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 2: not take no for an answer. 152 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: But knowing that you can handle not getting what you 153 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: wanted so badly, does that give you something you can 154 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 1: carry with you? 155 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 3: I think so. 156 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 2: I think, you know, initially I thought i'd you know, 157 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: we always get compared, and now like there's always people, 158 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 2: there's all the assimming stats. 159 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: I'm comparing my shoulders with yours right now, and especially 160 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: hear a cane. I'm hell man, I haven't. 161 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 3: Lifted away in years, But that's the genetics but then 162 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 3: if for the squads, you'd have me covered. 163 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 2: So but look, I think initially I thought it'd probably 164 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 2: make me weaker, but now looking back at where I 165 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 2: am and how I am able to influence others through 166 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 2: my recent journey, it's actually, if anything, it's made me 167 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 2: tougher because if we if everyone gets everything there after, 168 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 2: I don't think there's I don't know anyone that doesn't 169 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 2: have a challenge in their life or it's you know, 170 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 2: I mean when no one's so blessed, and even the 171 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 2: most successful athletes the world, I guarantee you there still 172 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: want more. I mean, I know Kayleie McEwan well and 173 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 2: the shoes the best and it's gone double double, but. 174 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 3: She's still hungry for more. 175 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 2: So you know I think, I'm yeah, it's hard to 176 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 2: meet someone's appetite. 177 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 3: That's that driven. 178 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: What's how you get to be double double because everyone 179 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: else has gone you know what? I think, I'm finey, Yeah, 180 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: I'm good. And as socially as you get older and 181 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,679 Speaker 1: your body starts going dude, well come on, it hurts 182 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: like it still hurts. 183 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 3: And that was the story of my comeback. 184 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 2: You know, I physically, my body definitely wasn't responding it, 185 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: but mentally I was like, I want to do this. 186 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 2: I still want to go around the block again and 187 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 2: be part of this amazing group. 188 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 3: Of people and be part of this team that you know, 189 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 3: we had such a great era. 190 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 2: But it's when that physical and mental don't match, it's 191 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 2: a it's a tough one and that's when you start. 192 00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 3: I did. 193 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 2: Anyway, I started resenting a lot, you know, the sport. 194 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 2: I started being grumpy. I started really being angry with 195 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 2: myself that, you know, why is it why can't I 196 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 2: line up these two things and why can't I swim 197 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 2: again the way I did before? What changed for you, Well, 198 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 2: there was this age It was definitely you know, like 199 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 2: assuming in your early thirties is much different to swimming 200 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 2: when you got one sole focus is just swimming. And 201 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 2: the second time around, I had a family, I was 202 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 2: running a business. You know, I ended up going actually 203 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 2: to the same level as I did when I retired. 204 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 2: I didn't take into account that the rest of the 205 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 2: world was also going to progress, and we had the 206 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 2: likes of James Magnuson, Cameron McAvoy, they all came on 207 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 2: the same aim and am and Sullivan. 208 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 3: Sorry, so I didn't evolve. 209 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 2: As much as they did so, but it also proved 210 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 2: that you can you can manage, and it's probably healthier 211 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 2: to have other things in your life, you know, Like 212 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 2: when I was a pro, it was literally everyone was 213 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 2: working for me almost you know, you have all these 214 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 2: resources feeding into it's a very selfish existence. And by 215 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 2: that the second time around, you know, the pressure wasn't there. 216 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 3: I wasn't. 217 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 2: I was kind of okay. I could come home and 218 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 2: the kids didn't care. They were toddlers. They didn't care 219 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 2: if I won or lost, even though there were sayings 220 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 2: going daddy, but it was it was a It put 221 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 2: a kind of a normal spin on things rather than 222 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 2: for me it was I used to beat myself up 223 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: a lot if I didn't get the result I wanted. 224 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: I know. I've said this about just about everybody has 225 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: featured in these Highlights episodes. There's so much more to 226 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: hear in that episode with Michael Clim it is brilliant. 227 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: He's got such wisdom, He speaks with a huge amount 228 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: of openness and awareness and vulnerability. It's it's a brilliant listen. 229 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: I got very lucky this year with a batter people 230 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: that came to the house for a chat, you lay 231 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: a docket, you came along, and this was a really 232 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: powerful one. She opened up about why she chose to 233 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: stay in the spotlight, the healing power that she found 234 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: in sharing her story, and so much more. I can't 235 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 1: imagine what it would be like to it be completely understandable. 236 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: For you've written the first book, that's the story. I 237 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: feel like you now finally understand what was happening. Time 238 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: above it it put it away. I mean I can 239 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: understand like even going out, you're a recognizable person being 240 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: in public, people staring at you. That can be tough 241 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 1: when you're you know, in those kind of states of fragility. 242 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: What was it that made you want to go out 243 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: and go? 244 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 5: You know? 245 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: I Ashley, No, I'm going to get back on camera. 246 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to write some more. I'm going to get 247 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 1: back into this. 248 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 6: I don't think it's so much the public aspect of it. 249 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 7: I think when I wrote the first book, I really 250 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 7: found my voice for the first time as someone who 251 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 7: was in a domestic violence field home for fifteen years 252 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 7: and had consequences because of a lot of that trauma 253 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 7: and battled anxiety and depression of PTSD. 254 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 6: And almost took my own life at twenty two. 255 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 7: I kind of felt like I was never really the 256 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 7: person who I am deep down. 257 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 6: It was all buried under all of that. 258 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 7: So for me writing the first one, that was my 259 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 7: life story, that was my you know, that was my memoir, 260 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 7: my autobiography, and then the second one was kind of 261 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 7: almost yeah, I didn't know I would write the second one. 262 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 7: I kind of had an inkling, Okay, there's more now 263 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 7: to to kind of dig deep because I I kind 264 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 7: of felt like, oh, I'm really only just starting now 265 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 7: the healing journey that I've found my voice and told 266 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 7: my story and I found also a lot of obviously 267 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 7: my different purposes in life and what I want my. 268 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 6: Legacy to be. 269 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,319 Speaker 7: But I never looked at it as being back on camera, 270 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 7: being back in the spotlight. I mean, I grew up 271 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 7: with it from the age of eleven or twelve, so 272 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 7: it was nothing new to me. 273 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 5: Really. 274 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 6: It was just a different different fields. 275 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 7: Now as a commentator or as a TV personality or 276 00:12:55,679 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 7: being a public speaker or a writer. So it's just 277 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 7: in a different way. And this is actually, to be honest, 278 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 7: very enjoyable as well. And I get to do all 279 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 7: these different things that I never thought that I would. 280 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 7: But the reason for the second book is really how 281 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 7: I was able to begin healing. Why Unbreakable my first 282 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 7: book was so important. The power of sharing our stories 283 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 7: and the power of not shaming and stigmatizing and judging 284 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 7: people because a lot of people have suffered and even 285 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 7: lost their lives and taken their lives because of that 286 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 7: fear and that shame and stigma, and continuing to speak 287 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 7: up for others that can't. But I also wanted it 288 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 7: to be a book about ultimately hope and ultimately belief 289 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 7: and that no matter what you go through, that you 290 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 7: can recover, and that you can actually not even just recover, 291 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 7: that you can come out the other end, that you 292 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 7: can thrive. If you told me ten years ago that 293 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 7: I'd be doing the things that I'm doing it today, 294 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 7: I would have told you you're just you know, yeah, 295 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,839 Speaker 7: like no way. But that's what pushing the boundaries and 296 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:08,959 Speaker 7: pushing yourself and being resilient and yeah, just continuing to 297 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 7: get outside of your comfort zone, but also that kind 298 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 7: of willingness to go you know, this is my truth, 299 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:18,719 Speaker 7: this is I'm going to speak up. 300 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 6: I'm going to share my story. This is my power. Yeah, 301 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 6: you can change your life finding your voice and actually 302 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 6: saying out loud, especially if you're going through things, the 303 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 6: possibilities are endless. That's when you really, I feel like, 304 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 6: start healing. 305 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 7: As long as you're holding things in for one reason 306 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 7: or another, you're really suffering. And that's what I really found. 307 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 7: So once I was able to open up, which for 308 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 7: me was my book, so through writing in words, that's 309 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 7: why I feel like what we write, what we say, 310 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 7: what we ask, it has so much power. And that's 311 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 7: why words are important. What we write and what we 312 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 7: say is important. And I've definitely found that through my 313 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 7: books and everything that I do today and speak even 314 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 7: through social media and I and I really work on 315 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 7: that every day. 316 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 6: But I hope that I have shown that. 317 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 7: You can turn it into something amazing, something good, something 318 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 7: that can help people through just being kind and being 319 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 7: nice and not being For me, it was really important 320 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 7: in all of this to not come out as a bitter, 321 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 7: resentful and hateful person because I went through a lot, 322 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 7: so I wanted to show that as well, and it 323 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 7: would be completely understandable for people that do and even 324 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 7: even if I was, but I wanted to go the approach, 325 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 7: you know what, I really want to go through this 326 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 7: with the opposite. So turn the negativity into positivity, the 327 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 7: bad into the good, the pain and the suffering into 328 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 7: something that will change lives and change minds. So I 329 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 7: wanted to just kind of show people that, yeah, that 330 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 7: positive mindset as well, and constantly believing in yourself and 331 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 7: having hope and believing in a light at the end 332 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 7: of the tunnel. Yeah, that it can change things, but 333 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 7: never to I also wanted people to know to ever 334 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 7: shrink and never be a shell of yourself or shell 335 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 7: of a person because of someone else or because of 336 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 7: shame and judgment, whether publicly or whether my family and friends, 337 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 7: because that speaks words and volumes about those people. So 338 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 7: I want people to know that their voice is so powerful. 339 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: Anyone listening to this, you know, the amount of trauma 340 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: that you've been through that we are aware of that 341 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: you shared about is everyone's been through some stuff. But 342 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: that's like, as they say, that's big TA trauma what 343 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: you're talking about. So these people listening is most definitely 344 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: had big T trauma in their lives, really be when 345 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: they were quite young or you know, perhaps more recently 346 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: when you started to learn about trauma responses and things 347 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: like that. What surprised you the most? 348 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 7: I think what surprised me the most is how much 349 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 7: we actually keep in and bury deep down, and that 350 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 7: it really becomes a part of us and until you 351 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 7: kind of start to get that out there. But I 352 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 7: also kind of discovered that those can be your kind 353 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 7: of i'll call them battle wounds or scars, and that's okay. 354 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 7: They are there, but that doesn't make you weak. It 355 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 7: actually shows what you've been through, but come out the 356 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 7: other end. So for me, I went through therapy and 357 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 7: I got professional help, but I genuinely think if I didn't, 358 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 7: I wouldn't be. 359 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: Here today, because it's very difficult to try to process 360 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: trauma with the same brain that is in trauma response 361 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 1: exactly and responding in the patterns of that trauma reuss. 362 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: It's like this loop. 363 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 7: And I started to actually understand some of the ways 364 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 7: that I was feeling some of my behavior, my eating 365 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 7: disorder for example, as well anxiety depression PTSD, where all 366 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 7: of that came from. But yeah, I don't know, there's 367 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 7: a lot I was surprised with because as I was 368 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 7: kind of unpacking a lot of it things were just 369 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 7: coming up to the surface. So I really found so 370 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 7: much therapy in talking about it and actually going bit 371 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,959 Speaker 7: by bit and actually realizing because I've blamed myself for 372 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 7: a long time, and then I actually realized it's actually. 373 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 6: Not my fault now. 374 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 7: Also, I don't know, I kind of just realized, look, 375 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 7: we're all dealt different cards in life. 376 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 6: And it was okay, this was mine, but it was. 377 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 7: More, let's how do I put that in the past, 378 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 7: that it doesn't define. 379 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 6: Me and defeat me. It shapes me as a person 380 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 6: as let's. 381 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 7: Say, stronger, wiser, more resilient, but it doesn't define me 382 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 7: and defeat me. And for a very long time, I 383 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 7: really felt like it was defining who I am. 384 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: And that's understandable, Like the kind of abuse that you'd 385 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 1: been through. You get why people move to another state, 386 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 1: another country, change their name, and that's it. They live 387 00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: this tiny, tiny, tiny life as a way of trying 388 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: to keep themselves safe, like they're far away from the abuser. 389 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 7: But you know, it all depends what kind of what 390 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 7: you've been through, and everyone's got maybe different things that've 391 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 7: gone through. For me, it was a fear of abandonment 392 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 7: as well, so I realized as well that for me, 393 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 7: I would give people a lot of chances that didn't 394 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 7: have my best interest at heart. And I did it 395 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 7: because I do try to be nice and I don't 396 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 7: like to cut people off, and I like to give 397 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 7: people chances always. But at the same time, was I 398 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 7: keeping people around as well because there was this fear 399 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 7: of abandonment as well, because that's what kind of my 400 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 7: family did. 401 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 6: I didn't have really a family, right. 402 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 7: So I never really felt accepted or scene, let's say, 403 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 7: or like I belonged anyways safe. So yeah, a lot 404 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 7: of those things I really Yeah, I discovered why I 405 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 7: was doing them, and yeah, I really felt like once 406 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 7: I started to unpack that, I became a new person. 407 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 7: So now I don't also look for validation, for example, 408 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:13,199 Speaker 7: external validation in my work. I know that for me, 409 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 7: validation doesn't come through work or what I achieve professionally, 410 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 7: which for a very long time was the thing that 411 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 7: I felt like was the most important and what defined me. 412 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 7: So I felt like that with tennis, for example, But 413 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 7: now it's different. I have a lot of validation and 414 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 7: the way that I think it has nothing to do 415 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 7: with work. Yeah, it's what my passions and my meaning 416 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 7: in life is and much bigger than Yeah, if I 417 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 7: get this gig or what I do here, as much 418 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 7: as I love my work and I find so much 419 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 7: passion and love in it, I found that kind of 420 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 7: validation's got nothing to do with work as well. 421 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: The kind of work you're talking about, and the kind 422 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,239 Speaker 1: of soci psychological work that you're talking about, the kind 423 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: of digging into it, I can understand why people might 424 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: be reluctant to go back and revisit that stuff. It's 425 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: a lot. Yeah, what would you say about facing it 426 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: in a supportive environment, working with somebody? What would you 427 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: say about that? About how frightened you might be to 428 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 1: unpack stuff? Also, stuff that you don't realize is even 429 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: there and starts to show up. What would you say 430 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 1: to people who haven't been trying to seek help or anything, 431 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: because it means going through all that stuff. 432 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 6: Yeah, And look, you don't necessarily have to go through 433 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 6: all of it. No one is forcing you to all 434 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 6: of a sudden you have to talk about all of this. 435 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 6: For me, I found a great careful like I found 436 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 6: a great psychiatrist who. 437 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 7: Yeah, it was very at my pace, and you know, 438 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 7: certain things we didn't even, let's say fully fully go 439 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 7: into I kind of felt like I maybe even said 440 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 7: more in my book than I did to my psychiatrist, 441 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 7: even though he. 442 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 6: Knows everything I've been through. But it's just the way 443 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 6: that you process your emultion, the way that you think. 444 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 6: And for me, the biggest thing I had is I 445 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 6: was always going I was always going. 446 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 7: Into my past and I couldn't change anything. And for me, 447 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 7: I kind of always felt like maybe I could. I 448 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 7: was living in the past and I didn't realize that 449 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 7: until I went kind of to therapy and go, well, 450 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 7: I've got the whole life ahead of me. 451 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 6: It's how I'm going to live from now for the 452 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 6: rest of my life. 453 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: Elena Dokitch has written a bunch of books. Her second 454 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: book is called Fearless, and there's really no better descriptive 455 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,959 Speaker 1: for hers very, very inspiring human being. We do need 456 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: play some ads to keep the lights on the fridge 457 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: running and that in a moment. Danny Minogue is here. 458 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,959 Speaker 1: She speaks about trusting yourself, the importance of costumes, and 459 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: you know what it takes to go the distance and 460 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: show business. Stay with us. Thanks for listening to the show. 461 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: One final Highlight from twenty twenty four, and it was 462 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: when Danny Minogue dropped by Dani Minogue has remained in 463 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: the Spotlight, employed to sucessful and loved killing it, all 464 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: of these things pretty much her entire life. There was 465 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: a time though, where she doubted if that was possible. 466 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 5: I was convinced nothing was going to happen past Young 467 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 5: Talent time because you had to leave at sixteen. 468 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 4: So it's like you laughed a K pop band, I know. 469 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 4: And then. 470 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 5: Because the show ran for seventeen years, the numbers tell 471 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 5: you not a lot of them went on to work 472 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 5: in front of the camera. A lots did behind the scenes, 473 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 5: but not a lot of them ended. 474 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 4: Up doing that. 475 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 5: And I was very well aware of my talent level. 476 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 5: And I'm like, i am not a Deborah Burn. I 477 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 5: am not you know, there were stars that were incredible performers. 478 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 5: I'm like, I'm not that. I think I had acute 479 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 5: smile and some energy about me that they liked and 480 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 5: they wanted to be part of the show. And there's 481 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 5: only so long you last on Cute, and any kid 482 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 5: knows after sixteen, Cute's well gone, Like you cannot you know, 483 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 5: be making coin off that anymore. So I was, you know, 484 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 5: happy with the fact that I got to do as 485 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 5: much as I could. I'm like, nothing's going to happen now, 486 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 5: So I was just I was shocked when things did 487 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 5: start to happen after that, and I'm like, okay, well, 488 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 5: now is the time where you've got to somehow be 489 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 5: brave and say, well, even if I'm ranking myself and 490 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 5: the talent's not there, what can you do? And it's 491 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 5: kind of I didn't know back then, but like, what 492 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 5: are your special powers? I always talk to people about Now. 493 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:53,400 Speaker 5: It could be you're the people person, or you're incredibly 494 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 5: single focused, or your brain works better, or your body 495 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 5: works better. But just when you click in with what 496 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 5: your kind of secret power is, then you get in 497 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 5: that slipstream and things start to travel. So things started 498 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 5: to travel for me quickly, and as I was figuring 499 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 5: it out, I was being off of jobs that gave 500 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 5: me that opportunity as well, and I was just like, 501 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 5: people would kill for this, So I've got the opportunity, 502 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 5: even if I'm not feeling confident, just grab it and 503 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 5: do it, because it's the most exciting thing that's ever 504 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 5: going to happen to you. 505 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: I remember seeing you live on stage. I was fourteen 506 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 1: and it was at the World Exposed Stage in Brisbane 507 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: and there were Yah, it was probably twelve thousand people out. 508 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 5: It wasn't as tall then, but I was taller because 509 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 5: my fringe was about five feet high. 510 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 1: Right, it was I've very I knew I can tell 511 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,199 Speaker 1: you exactly what you're wearing. And I'll never forget the 512 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: way you commanded the stage and I just looking at you, going, 513 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: what how do you do that? You know you're only 514 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 1: two and a bit years older than I am, so 515 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: I knew that you're sixteen. I was fourteen, looking like, go, 516 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: w how does she know what? What kind of what 517 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: is happening here? Yeah, but even then you had already 518 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: begun to diversify. So at what point does it show 519 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: up in you? 520 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 5: Is it? 521 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: Maybe it's a part of like I might not be 522 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: this and this and this, but I am this, So 523 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: how else can I make this thing better? And you 524 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,479 Speaker 1: had to You had to range at target like you 525 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: were click fifteen or sixteen or something. 526 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 5: So it's, you know the old saying about it takes 527 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 5: you at least ten years to be an overnight success. 528 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 5: So when I went into young talent time. I would 529 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 5: hang out in the wardrobe room and I would beg them, 530 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 5: please let me come up with the creation and can 531 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 5: you help me make it? So I was making costumes 532 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 5: and I was getting fan mail singer. 533 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 3: Or faff. 534 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 1: The overlocker, which oh I. 535 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 5: Know it was Janomi and singers were well gone, so 536 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 5: I would do that. I would get fan mail, read 537 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,360 Speaker 5: the fan mail and they're like, we love this outfit. 538 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,239 Speaker 5: Where did you get it from? And so that was 539 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 5: just a running theme. So it's like not that I 540 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 5: was like, oh, how can I diversify? It was I 541 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 5: was getting the practice. I was learning the skills, and 542 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 5: then there was a demand from it. Then Camart came in. 543 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 5: I had my first range at seventeen. It was supposed 544 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 5: to be like just put your name on it and 545 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 5: be done with it, and I was like, no, I 546 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 5: want to be in every meeting and I want to 547 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 5: have a say, And how do you. 548 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: Like, you're seventeen, how do you even we're talking nineteen 549 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: eighty seven, six eight. 550 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 4: That was like free college. 551 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 5: I'm like, wow, I get to be in the room, 552 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,439 Speaker 5: I get to learn all of this stuff. It's fast 553 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 5: track and I love being thrown in the deep end 554 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 5: and having to learn, and the best thing you can 555 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 5: do is just ask questions. 556 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 4: You go, what does that mean? What do you you know? 557 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 4: What are these spreadsheets? And how does it work? 558 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 5: And then I started to throw in ideas to them, 559 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 5: like let's do this, let's do that, and I'd have 560 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 5: a board table full of adults saying no, we can't 561 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 5: do that, and I'm like, you really should because this 562 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 5: is for young people, and I'm the young person here 563 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 5: at this table. And so I remember the first time 564 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 5: they took a shot on me and I was like, 565 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 5: bicycle shorts at the thing. And I bought them pictures 566 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 5: of motocross and I'm like, it's based off that, but 567 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 5: let's do bicycle shorts. They're like, nu, it's never going 568 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 5: to work. It was our biggest flying product and they 569 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 5: were like, next. 570 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 4: Meeting, So what were you thinking here? 571 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 5: And you know, when you have that genuine passion for 572 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 5: something and you genuinely involved, you're not throwing a name 573 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 5: at something and walking away, people know and people feel it. 574 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 5: And there's so many brands now that are fantastic where 575 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 5: the celebrity is like, it's really a passion, and those 576 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 5: ones stick when. 577 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: I just can't get my head around at seventeen, you 578 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: are now this is you know, before the fact fracturing 579 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: of the market. And I know I said Target before, 580 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: but that was that was it all came on. 581 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 3: That was it. 582 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: Maybe big W if you live in leftgo, but that's 583 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: about it. As far as big kind of that tear 584 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: clothing retailer, there was no you know, iconic, these things 585 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: didn't exist. It was where you got no. Yeah, there 586 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: was nothing, nothing went with nothing because there was no Suzanne. 587 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: That was it. There was Yeah, there was no other places. 588 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: So these are massive companies basically making heaps money because 589 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: they're the only place you could buy clothes. Yet you've 590 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: got you, you can back yourself enough to go no, no, no, 591 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: I need to be in that meeting. 592 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 5: I was the best selling label within the whole store. 593 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: How do you even get to be seventeen and go, 594 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: oh no, I deserve a seat at that table even 595 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: though I've never sold an out of my clothing in 596 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: my life. What's going on inside you that says I 597 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: need to be in there. 598 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 5: It's like what you see with music now. If you 599 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 5: ever a record company telling an artist to be a 600 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 5: certain way, and it doesn't work. Guess why. There's a 601 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 5: reason why it doesn't work. It's not coming from them. 602 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 5: It's not authentic. You see people like Robin leave her 603 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 5: record company and say these are the songs I've always 604 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 5: wanted to sing and then boh, she's this international success. 605 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 3: Right. 606 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 5: You see Chapel Rowan say I don't know if anyone 607 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 5: will like this, but this is who I am and 608 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 5: this is. 609 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 4: What I want to do. 610 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 5: It's like it's huge. So it's just like using your instincts. 611 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 5: And you know, some of these young artists it's the 612 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 5: first time they've made an album. How do they know 613 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 5: what's the best record cover or how do you know 614 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,719 Speaker 5: what the video should be? Because it's instinct, right, and 615 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 5: trusting your creativity, right. 616 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: But something and you is like, if my name is 617 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: going to be on this, it has to be for 618 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: having to do it. Yeah, yeah, right, So going to this, 619 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: you know, being involved in the creation all that and 620 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: seeing the success of all that. What was it like 621 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: to have something that wasn't performing start to become a 622 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: real possibility of a pathway for you? 623 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 5: It was wild. Like my dad was an accountant. I 624 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 5: remember him like saying to me, He's like the numbers 625 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 5: are going up. This is like this is a huge career. 626 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: Wow. 627 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 5: And so it was kind of something that again like 628 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 5: young Talent time, because I was drilled in everything has 629 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 5: an end date. I was like, that's awesome, but it 630 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 5: probably won't last that long. And over the years, there's 631 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 5: been a lot of celebrity brands Calm. 632 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 4: Go, Calm Go, but. 633 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 5: There are very few that you know, really stick at 634 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 5: something for a long time. So it's it's more often 635 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 5: different situations over the years, but it's always been then 636 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 5: you know how serious I am about my fashion with 637 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 5: being a judge on a show, I need to step 638 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 5: into the text. 639 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 4: Me is a certain way. 640 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: He texted me saying, what is the room look like 641 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: that we're going to do the podcast in? I want 642 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: to put an outfit together. Yeah, you are maybe the 643 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: seven hundredth guest I've had on this show and the 644 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: only person who have ever asked that question. 645 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 5: You know me, it's not about vanity. It's about the 646 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 5: respect and trying to create something that is special. And 647 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 5: obviously I get lots of messages from people something that 648 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 5: you did and you're wearing this costume and it's imprinted 649 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 5: in their minds. So you know that special. Like I 650 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 5: remember being the young girl watching Abba going ah, those jumpsuits, 651 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 5: the microphone at that angle, and then you've seen Kylie. 652 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 4: And I do it. 653 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 5: You know, years later we'll pose because that's like we 654 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 5: just admired them so much, so so growing up, for me, 655 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 5: the big thing in my mind was living it in 656 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 5: John and Greece and the costumes and the songs, and 657 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 5: then Abba with the costumes and songs. 658 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 4: And for me, they marry, they go together, they have to. 659 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 5: You know, my brother was listening to Kiss It's like, 660 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 5: what is that without the costumes? 661 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 4: It's the costumes and the song. But even if you 662 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 4: want to do. 663 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 5: Grunge, that that's a costume. No, So it's I think 664 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 5: it's really important to what you do. Even and I 665 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 5: see you like when you're doing the hosting and it's 666 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 5: like a suit, but some suits are different to others. 667 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 5: And this is more playful and this is more serious 668 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 5: and it even you know your voice has got to change, 669 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 5: but you know when you step into that suit, this 670 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 5: is fun. 671 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 4: Oh, this is serious. 672 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: Whenever I get to work with you, the moment that 673 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: it's the tally light goes on and it's your bit. 674 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: It's like there, it is every time, like fucking clockwork. 675 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 4: I love it. 676 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 5: I just when I see that red on air light 677 00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:59,959 Speaker 5: up and you feel it in the room. 678 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: Boom. 679 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 5: But one thing I do know is that you bring 680 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,719 Speaker 5: it in the room. And that's what you and I 681 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 5: have in common. We rock up ready to bring it 682 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 5: in the room. We're very well aware of everyone else's 683 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 5: energies and we try if we can to lift and 684 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 5: shape and we can shape shift it. And that's like, 685 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 5: that's so much fun. When I did theater in London, 686 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 5: it was a big learning curve for me, and I 687 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 5: remember them saying, you know, you'd come off and you'd 688 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 5: be like the audience would a bit quiet today, and 689 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 5: I said, never a bad audience, only a bad show, 690 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 5: and that stuck with me. That's the audience vibe off you. 691 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 5: You got to bring it and so I always then 692 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 5: use that everything I did since then, and then you 693 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 5: got to see a lot of that. 694 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:54,359 Speaker 4: It's like, bring it. 695 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,839 Speaker 1: Dan even know absolutely in our conversation last year's years. 696 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: It's such a good episode if you're ever interested in 697 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: the way you might carry yourself inside an industry that 698 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 1: is very small, whether it's entertainment, or air conditioning or 699 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: wherever the refrigeration, wherever you work. It's such a good, 700 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,800 Speaker 1: such a good chat. That is the last of the 701 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: Highlight episodes. Thanks for listening. This time next week our 702 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 1: first fresh guest for twenty twenty five. We're going to 703 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 1: have some brilliant conversations on the way. Please like, subscribe, follow, 704 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: however it is that you follow this podcast, I'd love 705 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: you to do it. Get on the substack for more. 706 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 1: There's a link in the show notes. Also tickets to 707 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 1: live shows linkers in there as well. If you need me, 708 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: my email has been the same since twenty thirteen, San 709 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 1: to osher email at gmail dot com. That's where you 710 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 1: find me. Thanks so much for listening.